Bitcoin Forum

I am an advocate for Bitcoin and It pleases me to tell people about Bitcoin. But there are issues we need to attend to. Bitcoin was created as a means of payment, and some people are using it for that purpose. Unfortunately, this includes criminals. The rate at which criminals use Bitcoins to enhance their operation and make their footsteps sophisticated is just increasing! Haven't you heard that "Bitcoin is a scam"? This phrase only comes up because people have been seeing Bitcoin used for such purposes. Bitcoin is available to everyone, so how can we stop/reduce the misuse of cryptocurrency? Considering that KYC is not involved because I and some people prefer being discreet about our identity. So, how can we stop this, and I'd still have my secrecy? This is already rubbing dirt on us and needs to be attended to.

Yet, fiat is known to be one of the largest untraceable currency that is most commonly used in illicit transactions. Heck, even Standard Chartered laundered billions of dollars. If you want the government to stop snooping in your daily lives, it comes at a cost and that cost is that it's attractive to criminals as well.
Only? Is the term being alluded to Bitcoin facilitating illegal activities or is the term used because most governments do not recognise Bitcoin as a legal tender? I'm pretty sure it's the latter; it's not a scam even if illegal activities are happening on it (why don't people call your fiat currency a scam???) . You cannot stop or reduce the misuse without compromising your own privacy. I don't think it's an issue at all. If you want to address it, you have to address the prevalence of illicit money involving of the most widely known and untraceable currency which is your fiat.

Nope. People aren't calling bitcoin a scam just because criminals could use it. People mostly call bitcoin a scam because they don't understand it, without them being able to conceptualize a non-physical asset being worth something.

Pretty much nothing as Bitcoin is free to use for literally everyone. The same way how criminals are also able to use cash for criminal purposes. It's literally the downside of every single technology— it will always be usable for nefarious purposes.

No, there are many ignorant reasons ignorant people said bitcoin is a scam. Some ignorant people thought bitcoin was a Ponzi, some thought you can invest and lose. These are the main reasons but the first reason is completely wrong while the second reason is not completely valid if they understand about bitcoin. Fiats that have been always subjected to depreciation is not called scam, while bitcoin never a ponzi, that is obvious for people that properly know about bitcoin. People lose to forex trading but not also calling fiat a scam after it has been subjected to devaluation over time. Bitcoin is money and a payment method, that is why scammers will make use of it. Also, fiat are more used in criminal activities, which means all these should not be the reasons why bitcoin to be called scam.

By educating people about scam. But this will not work as it is the work of the government and they are not taking any action about it. All governments wants is to compromise privacy, and making online not safe for people. They are using their old failed ways to tackle criminals, but criminals are still on the rise. People needs education but they are not getting it the kind of education we are exposed to on this forum.

Educating people, the work of the governments about scam that they are not doing in order to avoid or prevent scam not when the scam has happened and finding solutions.

Yea, I meant to say 'sometimes'.





But guys, we all know that fiat is used for illegal activities too. However, that of Bitcoin is rapidly increasing as it offers criminals a better position. If you deposit a huge amount of money in your bank account, the financial agency may investigate on how the money was made. But if you own 2000 bitcoin, no one knows who you are to question you. For this and some other reasons, Bitcoin is preferred for their criminal activities.

The idea about this dirt rubbed on users I think will changed soon because most government and big companies particularly the finance sector who already are treating BTC as digital asset. Its the users and bad actors who are to blame here not Bitcoin. They are criminals they are not dumb to understand Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency and if any of us can use cryptcurrency so can they, its free to anyone whichever the purpose they have.

Its the regulations I think that will be their most cruel enemy here, it will stop from from painting bad to crypto.

Yes. It's probably because they want to catch you off-guard and want to seize your funds. But why would you use a bank account? Cold, hard cash is completely untraceable and no one would probably find out if you hide it well enough.

Problem arises when you're trying to use it. Can the big criminal organisation utilise Bitcoin? Sure they can and I'm sure that it's good for them. Does the fact that they're using it for criminal activities undermine what Bitcoin is for? No. I need to reiterate. Fiat is the only currency in the world that is the most suitable for criminal activities.

If you want to use Bitcoin, the liquidity and the low adoption rate is a good enough deterrence for large scale operations. I think it'll be good if you can eliminate them completely of course. You NEED to have some central authority tracing each and every transaction, manually do a background check on everyone and block transactions if necessary. Sounds familiar? That's Paypal for you.

Fact is, Bitcoin is designed to be decentralised and pseudonymous. I don't think anyone should change that at all and I definitely don't think having criminal activities on Bitcoin is a problem that is serious enough to ruin the whole idea why Bitcoin was invented in the first place.

Honestly we can't do nothing about that no matter what we do there will always people who will use Bitcoin in illegal ways either to money launder or to purchase illegal things or services online. I can't really think of a way to reduce it or to avoid this one.

Obviously, when Mr. Satoshi conceptualised the idea of blockchain he never would have thought that bitcoin might be used as money laundering stuff. When you say criminals use it, then I recall movies like Pablo Escobar, where millions of stashed into backyard only in our scenario it's in the form of bitcoin.

Honestly, I find it difficult to picture this. If that kinda money is in criminals hand then it's probably coming from higher authority, whose using a criminal for its devil use.

For example, a rich person who wants to buy drugs? may be a government official ordering group of criminals to end someone for internal politics and paying in bitcoin form ?

This could literally go on and we will never know whose exactly behind this. The flow of money has to be from normal rich people to criminals and not the other way round of course.

So it's thinkable, how you can manage the complexity of its use?


And who do you think call it scam? May be those who use it themselves for such reasons OR someone whose too down line and unable to buy a bit today due to its huge pricing. You never know what bad kinda politics is being played.

Yes, it could be just criminal using it, but my concern is from where does the money coming ? A criminal doesn't pay another one, actually guys with needs do.


The KYC is for those services which includes trading, exchangers etc. If you just wanna send money from one wallet to another, or just want to hold then you are good to go without any KYC.

Of course you can option out for kyc anytime, I don't see any interference of criminals using the bitcoin and you doing your kyc out of thousands people over an exchanger.

Each technology has its own advantages and disadvantages. Fiat currency is also used by criminals for illegal activities and it is very easy to trace it.

However, the hacking can also stop because the system owned by the bank can be hacked by professional hackers who aim to erase their tracks.

In contrast to bitcoin, which indeed provides more room for criminals not to be detected because of anonymous transactions that are made.

But do you know that transactions carried out on bitcoin use blockchain technology that can not be deleted by anyone and transaction history that can be seen by anyone. this will be an opening for the police to track down where the transaction ends. To be sure, the transaction will still go to the criminal's bank account even though it is done in thousands of transactions though.

Blockchain technology will make it easier for the authorities to carry out investigations, so no one can hiding even though using bitcoin.

Isn't it very normal that criminals will use it where there has less risk to trace them?
-- That is the main fact to use Bitcoin as a payment rather it was created to pay easily as it is also mentioned by op.

I also believe that technology itself has some advantage and disadvantage too. So it can be used for illegal purposes but it is not scam or illegal.
 

It is well possible to find a solution to this problem. But first, we need to find out why criminals have chosen bitcoin to facilitate their nefarious activities in the first place, why they keep using it despite the transparent design and open nature of bitcoin. I think the main reason they are using bitcoin is that other, non-criminal, people are always ready to accept bitcoin as money. Both criminals and non-criminals recognize bitcoin as money due to its valuable characteristics. It has all useful properties inherent to good money, and therefore people have no choice but to use it in exchanges. In order to prevent criminals from using bitcoin, we should make bitcoin worthless by depriving it of all useful properties.

Your Rank tells us that you are here long enough but why still now being affected of these issue?Criminal will use everything for their operation it's just happen that they cross bitcoin now and find it suitable.

Even without Bitcoin they will find every way,so Just focus on your life.
Seriously?you still find these question appropriate? even Noob knows about that question and i did not expect to be coming from high rank like you
What about Fiat,This is the main use of criminal so we need to stop Fiat also?Man be mature let it be,you are not superhero to face everything.

Let me start with the aspect of calling Bitcoin a scam; people called or calling Bitcoin a scam is because they are yet to understand it and everything about it, you can't possibly call fiat a scam because you know how it works, you can't the internet a scam because you know how it works, but when you start lacking the right knowledge about something, you can call it whatever you want just to justify your ignorance of that thing or technology.
Secondly, about Bitcoin being used by criminals, there is nothing anyone can do about it, to better understand this, before Bitcoin, haven't criminals been using fiat? What was done about it? Nothing, rather the government keeps trying their best to curtail it. Also, since criminals are using  fiat, does it mean fiat is bad, No; this case scenario of fiat, is the same with Bitcoin.
Money be it fiat or Bitcoin is being used by people for whatever purpose they want, where some will use it for bad, others will use it for good, hence it is all about mindset and the individual in particular, thus wrong to judge the usage of Bitcoin just because of some fraudulent people. Lastly, if Bitcoin is not worth it, I don't think big organisations will be adopting it.

we can't

either everyone has permissionless privacy, or nobody does. And that's the way it should be: banning tools (or commodities) has been shown time and time again to be ineffective as a means to stopping people using those tools in a dangerous or unethical way. All that happens is that the richest/most powerful corrupt those running the system, and abuse that position to continue to make money from whatever ban, but now the rewards are higher because the ban has pushed up the price of the whatever it is that's been banned.

it's like this for drugs, guns/weapons, banned trade, banned bank account secrecy etc etc. None of this ever worked, because rich and powerful continued to do it in spite of the ban.


Bitcoin was designed to make everyone equally capable of using private money with incontrovertable ownership, so that none of these things mattered any more.

so sorry @otkana, but the issue here is that you're applying 20th century values to a 21st century tool, not realizing that the way we used to think about these issues was causing the problem. You're still arguing about what to do about wolves around the campfire _after_ someone invented steel pointy sticks

Well, not everything is as gloomy as the OP describes. And this topic has already been raised several times. Yesterday's news reported that the use of illegal bitcoins has dropped significantly.

https://www.elliptic.co/blog/13-bitcoin-crime-laundered-through-privacy-wallet

But Elliptic Research says the use of confidential wallets has increased.
This suggests that criminals are trying to keep up with the times. The use of decentralized exchanges, confidential wallets, makes it difficult to track funds. But the fact that all transactions are stored in the public ledger of the blockchain makes it much easier to track such transactions. And, accordingly, those transactions that are illegal are tracked

they use even more sophisticate footprints the fiat guys

It cannot be stopped. Everything that is created can be used for evil deeds. They just need to bend it a little.
USD, EURO, GOLD, Silver, or any other currencies and commodities that have value can be exchanged for drugs, guns, or any illegal works.

But you did find the right word. "Sophisticate"
They can still be traced, they are just making it hard for authorities.
It's just a matter of whoever has the right equipment to track them down.

And yet criminals use fiat money all the time to commit crimes and yet it still hasn't even been called a scam. My opinion here? Let's stop being stupid and stop blaming the currency for being a tool. We can use it, and we love it right now because it is a tool, and that's that. Anything can become dangerous in the hands of someone who knows how to turn it into one, so there's absolutely no need for us to do anything. For anyone blaming Bitcoin as a tool for criminals, just tell them to throw away everything they have since criminals also use those anyway.

OP, it doesn't matter who uses Bitcoin, and what for. It's a breakthrough that you can use solved Sudokus for buying heroine from the dark markets.

You should not blame the wrong use of currency as a drawback of a currency. Bitcoin can be used in a good sense and in a bad way too. Its up to the end user who uses bitcoin for what purpose. Even if you stop the bitcoin usage, the criminals will still continue the criminal activity using paper currency.

Criminals can use physical currency too and we don't blame the currency they've used for their crimes instead we put the blame on the criminals themselves. However, those hypocrite media has gone too far with putting Bitcoin as the main issue when some crooks used it as their main props. We need to change other people's mindsets by countering those media who put blame on Bitcoin when it's not really necessary and the real culprit is those criminals instead.

Criminals actually can't use Bitcoin to hide or "sophisticate" their footprints.They are using mostly private coins like Monero.The mantra of Bitcoin being used by criminals is going to be busted.Bitcoin isn't even close to fiat/cash,when it comes to money laundering and criminal activities.
I don't understand why are you whining about this?It doesn't matter how legit and trusted Bitcoin is,"haters gonna hate" no matter what happens and there will always be people,who will call Bitcoin a scam.

It's inevitable for criminal usage to be increasing. Why? Because mass usage of Bitcoin in general is increasing so it's really nothing but expected.

Also, take note that criminals also prefer using cars for getaway vehicles, knives or hammers to murder people, gloves and hairnets to prevent spreading DNA, computers to steal money and identities, the list goes on and on and on. Why? Because Bitcoin, along with these mentioned items, are tools.

Bitcoin still works as a means of payment though,,, I am seeing it every day and people are using it every day on this channel/forum.

But yes, it does not mean Bitcoin is perfect. Hence Segwit upgrades and hence Lightning Network.

Criminals using Bitcoin? Criminals use any money and any tech to help their work. Should we say Internet is evil because crime happens online?

I've heard the line "Bitcoin is a scam" from the people around me even from my friends. The reason why they see it that way is that they don't have enough knowledge about it and how criminals have been using it for their own purpose. I think we can't eliminate criminals who are using crypto because most of them are also using fiat which logically means that criminals are everywhere and any kind of currency could be used in both good and bad ways.

I wouldn't say busted, there''s always going to be crime in relation to Bitcoin, same as with cash. The difference is Bitcoin does give a little more privacy than card payments, but you could argue that cash is better for criminals to use. Obviously, as discussed every transaction is visible to anyone, whether they use Bitcoin or not which is something you'd think a criminal would avoid doing.

There isn't really anything to bust other than stating that a currency has, and will continue to be used by criminals. Unfortunately, what ever currency you use that will remain a fact. Bitcoin isn't special or different in this regard.

I just feel helpless sometimes when the same criminals attack the exchanges and go untraced, with huge fund this time. This implicate that anyone can be victim of hack and may never be caught, we cant be too careful and exchanges had shown not to be the safest especially the top exchanges like Binance. The same anonymity that protects and also the defect. I wish something can be done on this

Yes, unfortunately, criminals use internet / money.

Fortunately, Cypherpunks Write Code ...

"Deal with it!" - Timothy C. May

Bitcoin and the End of History
- https://youtu.be/HDKQulqVCQg?t=447

...

The Black Eyed Peas - Where Is The Love? (Official Music Video)
- https://youtu.be/WpYeekQkAdc

Everything has two parts so its depends on users who choose the right.
People use bitcoin for payments or trading but criminals use it for their money black to white. We know that bitcoin prices always violent and nobody cannot find the user information. The criminal takes the opurtunity to buy  huge asset and sell when the price pump.

Isn't this issue about Bitcoin being used by criminals has been around for so long?
Is it only Bitcoin? Because for me everything that have a value is being used by the criminals,
Money (Fiat), Cars , Gold , Antiques or anything that is expensive could be used by the criminals smuggling and money laundering isn't new.

How about people just stop being stupid and listening to nonsense, believing in nonsense, and speaking it. Unless someone knows what they are talking about they shouldn't have an opinion on any subject.
How can you form an opinion on something you have no understanding of. I tell you people are amazing and their ignorance is outstanding.

If it can be used it can also be abused. It's very basic.

There is nothing to be done and nothing should be done about it in terms of changing the code of bitcoin or anything similar, bitcoin is just a tool and just as knife can be used for everyday reasons like cutting vegetables and similar stuff, it can be used by criminals as well, should we ban knifes just because criminals can use them? Should we make them less sharp and reduce their utility as a toll for everyone else? The answer is obviously no.

Bitcoin gives every single person that uses it the freedom to do what they want with their money and while the majority of people will use it for good things there are going to be a few bad apples here and there, and the only way to help the situation somewhat is with old detective work and putting those persons behind bars, other than that there is nothing to do except taking some precautions to protect yourself.

Are you for real? I created a topic to discuss the problems of bitcoin that only keeps getting worse and what I get from you is such a response? SMH. If you won't give a simple opinion like the other members have done, then there's no need to show off. Bitcoin has problems that are pulling it down, and they need to be attended to.


No one is blaming Bitcoin for being a tool. We are glad that it is. The point is, how can we reduce the rate at which it is misused. Because, the more it is misused, the more it'll be disregarded.


It has been for so long, but has been increasing. The cause for the topic is the increase.

The whole purpose of bitcoin and such crypto is to allow access to anyone and everyone which means sadly there will be fraudulent activities, scams, and illegal actions, etc. One thing to avoid such scams is to be careful and educate yourself.

Bitcoin is developed to pilot transactions eliminating the intermediary in an pseudonymous manner. This has helped in good as well as on criminal activities. As it is quite hard to back track the transaction, criminals use bitcoins. In comparison to the usage of fiat the usage of bitcoin is very low. Just on the usage on bad activities one shouldn't be judgemental that bitcoin is developed for the criminal needs.

Everything rise has a fall similarly every development has a negative impact too we always want to see the positive side and the use of it, but I am not saying it Should be encouraged. Obviously this is a drawback but ultimately nothing can be done in crypto currency. Instances like scam's, illegal activities are done everywhere. We need to be careful and be alert to avoid from such actions.

Bitcoin was created with good intention but the criminals abuses the goodwill of this financial instrument. Almost every good innovations have their  dark side . Fiat currencies is also used by the criminals to facilitate their illegal activities. I feel nothing can be done to prevent some bad actors using Bitcoin for illegal purposes . The peer to peer system of transaction makes that totally impossible.

Some peoples use bitcoin for criminal operations, it's same term with people use fiat for criminal operations isn't it? We will see people will use anything to enhance their business, in this topic is crime purpose.


Fiat also a scam right, we've seen many people lose their money in scam company. Imo "Bitcoin is scam", this term is irational.

You attach a digital flyer with The Ten Commandments to each transaction and you ask people nicely to stop using it for stuff you don't like, maybe for some using BTC in a strip club or gambling or buying cannabis is a misuse, for others donating to a church might be a misuse.
Who is going to play god and decide what's right and wrong?


Well, there are a lot of ways in trying to stop this, all of them end in the same way, bitcoin turning into a useless centralized crap worth zero that nobody uses.
What you're trying to do is create a gun that only shoots bad guys, good luck with it.


It's the mantra of bitcoin being used only by the ones with a pure soul and only for necessities protecting them by the evil gubbermint that is being busted day after day. Deal with reality, don't be a cultist!

Just like most people on this thread, you are right. Bitcoin in this case is only an object. However, my care for the life of the currency made me create this thread. Everything can be used and misused, but when it's misused rapidly, or it's misuse is increasing, I think a supporter can have a concern over it.

fiat is supported by governments and people see it and familiar with it .

 they dont put the blame in it but they blame the company or the people that have scammed them but for btc the insight is not the same because btc is non government supported and they didnt see btc and they think that btc is connected to the company that scammed them .
 also a criminal can easily escape if he will not expose himself outside and since btc also exist on a virtual world its a perfect match for them .

I will not deny that many criminals use Bitcoin to carry out illegal activities. Criminals think Bitcoin can cover their footprint,
because Bitcoin is decentralized. Though they are wrong, Bitcoin has transactions that are easy to trace. Education about Bitcoin is
required, so many people can find that Bitcoin is transparent and easy to trace. That way it can prevent criminals who want to do scams,
and this can be a solution in order to reduce the number of criminals who use Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is just a currency, that it's been used for scams doesn't automatically mean it's a scam, the fiat currency has been used to fuel crimes from the very beginning yet it isn't been tagged a scam (meanwhile, it's the real scam). The problem isn't because bitcoin is a decentralized currency but the society is corrupted.

The scammers are seeing more advantage of the crypto currency over fiat and utilizing that, it's best the government make the adoption now and popularize the currency already to create more awareness and maybe reduced the rate at which this scams are becoming a success.

The government will try regulating the third party service provider of the industry with the hope of regulating the industry inorder to reduced the rate of the scams but that will fail too. The KYC regulations didn't work perfectly with the fiat systems in eliminating scams as the crimes are still on the increase so why then would they think regulating a decentralized currency would solve the problem?.

I think bitcoin being used for frauds is something that the banking agency of each countries should be able to fix and end easily. If you find any post or blog saying bitcoin is a scam but neglecting the reality that you cannot buy huge amount of bitcoin without doing kyc and aml documentations you should simply realize the bias and agenda.

Bitcoin is here to stay, and the regulation will be to ensure that bitcoin is not used for money laudering, the decentralization has to remain to a large extents.

It is true, but at least in this respect we cannot be reckless in taking action beyond our reach as bitcoin users.
We also need to dig back between fiat and bitcoin vulnerabilities, which are criminals more targeted to launch their actions?

In this context, criminals don't see how fiat money and bitcoin are themselves, they commit crimes in various patterns. It is indeed difficult to prevent it, but we must be smart in fortifying our assets, so we can avoid evil deeds.

Regulation and decentralization don't really match up. At the end of the day, there'll likely just be people who abide by the law and people who don't. As p2p transactions become more and more "suspect" in the eyes of authorities, it's going to become increasingly harder not to avoid the law if you want your privacy and the decentralized aspects of Bitcoin to stay alive.

Well, this is a short but fully detailed answer.
That is right, bitcoin is also a currency, the same as the fiat currency that also often used by a scammer or even fraud activity. We have nothing to do with this fact is just to accept the reality that even bitcoin was abused by a scammer but the good thing is they perhaps will trace through the transaction that publicly seen on the blockhain, not like the fiat currency. Perhaps they can use bitcoin to sophisticate footprints but they can't hide one the transaction will be traced and convert their bitcoin to fiat currency.

Get used to it because no matter how hard we do try it is impossible to get rid or to solve out on where people do make use on illegal things.Just like on what we do saw in typical fiat
where it is mainly used in some illegal transactions which are pretty common.The difference here in Bitcoin that it is been attached into that certain situation where it do
end up on tainting its reputation specially to the eyes of those newbie investors or first encounters which would really be giving out that kind of impression which would really
result into the negative side but just let them be because sooner or later they would able to realize that they have wrong perception about bitcoin once they do able to know
the truth.

That’s why it is being said that you can’t have everything in life, sometimes you’re going to have to sacrifice one thing to get the other, because you are not going to be able to have the both of them at the same time. These criminals you’re talking about are also normal people like you that are making use of Bitcoin the same way that you’re using it, and they are using due to the same reason why you’re making use of it which is to have some level of privacy.

If you’re going to be able to keep your activities secret with Bitcoin, these criminals are going to be able to do the same. Bitcoin offers the same advantages to everyone, whether you’re good or bad, and that’s just it. But Bitcoin’s privacy is to an extent and they will still get caught.

Many people consider bitcoin to be a fraud, since they were previously deceived with the help of bitcoin by fraudulently obtaining their card details and buy bitcoin after which they disappear and after that people think that bitcoin deceived them, and for such scammers, authority and respect for bitcoin is lost

This is the price of freedom, you either give it to everyone or to no one. There's no way to prevent or track the criminal use of Bitcoin in a way that wouldn't hurt all users. Even now we have chainanalysis companies that claim to fight crime, but really they provide their services to anyone who is paying to them, which often includes governments who conduct mass surveillance. Governments are actually much more scary than criminals, you have a very low chance of encountering criminals, but governments are already spying on you.

Gubment isn't all bad. But stooges were put in charge are scary.  They will come after you "hard" since they also control the judicial system. They will wreck you, your family, and your life. Be forewarned.

It is somehow their fault in the first place and Bitcoin has nothing to do with it–it's just Bitcoin is being used as a way to scam naive people. If those people learned how to counter a scam or just do their own research, they might save their money and spend it or invest it on Bitcoin. Those bad people and lack of knowledge people are the ones making Bitcoin to look bad because they don't know the essence of having a crypto currency or maybe those bad people did but proceed on making a untrustworthy scheme.

The thinking of the people that Bitcoin is a scam is a concept created on their minds because they cannot truly understand what Bitcoin really is and not because of certain group of criminals who have been using it. Those two are different subjects which must not be brought together for they are two different issues. People calling Bitcoin a scam are certainly those who easily believe on hearsay from other people who have not been successful on their Bitcoin journey because of lack of understanding and knowledge about it and turns to coin Bitcoin as a scam one. Now with regards to criminals using Bitcoin, more cases are being in lined with fiat compared to Bitcoin when it comes to criminality and that must not be blamed on the type of currency but on the people who have been taking advantage of it.

 sometimes people are taking advantage of places to hide and much mistaken that Bitcoin is a scam without evidence which is coming from those lacking knowledge of the new technology. Totally it passes through with a negative impact was made due to anyone who has thought about that we can buy something illegal or legal, and maybe it's right. Because it's assigned to the most secure place inside the creative brain of a leader who is behind. So if we can cope with these terms it is our own freedom to select but it doesn't mean that we are free to do something wrong with the help of bitcoin.