Bitcoin Forum

I am confused among these, cauze people says
 
1. Btc pump then alts dump
2. Alts pump then btc dump
3. Both btc and alts follow each other 

But we can see that only the 3rd scenario is happening right now i.e alts are following btc.
What's about the 1st and 2nd.
(Actually I am a newbie in trading)

There is no unanimous vote on any of these statement to be absolute, though.

All of them can be correct depending on perspective and which movement appeared first. I have seem most of the times during a bull run Bitcoin pumps first and then altcoins follow suit, followed by a dump of altcoins and a dump of bitcoin.

The basic reasons why altcoins never reach the top or for that instance will never be second is that they have no specific use market/use case. You might argue on the opposite but I have been watching them closely for several years now and I follow the winning team only. :D

What you need to do, keep tabs on bitcoin price, buy it at low and then sell at high. Rinse and repeat.

The price movement of Bitcoin and altcoins sometimes may be related, sometimes not, sometimes may look as related. People however always try to find a relation between the two in the same way they try to find a relation between Bitcoin and stocks' price.

All in all it's not a clear and easy to follow relation between those trends and you have to be very careful and not trust blindly everybody's suppositions.

Yes, I know, this makes learning more difficult and possibly confusing too. Read, check the history.. you'll see that all those sayings were true at least once but most probably they were at least once also false.

There's no actual pattern for that. We have seen that happened before and there is no certain clue when the 1, 2 or 3 scenario would happen. There's no actual synchronization of those and we'll just see it randomly. Each of those can happen at no particular order. Glad that you have asked this kind of observation as it shows that you're truly interested to know about how the market works but as a newbie, what you have to do is to follow the advise above which I'll quote for you and focus on it which is the easy step of determining your status in the market as you watch it. No need to worry about such patterns as long as you secure yourself while holding bitcoin.

From my experience in crypto trading. It really depends on traders, most likely whales decide what will happen on the crypto market. Sometimes bitcoin is rallying very quickly that alts are being left out. If alts pump, it means the hype is there and will result formany traders exchange their btc for that particular altcoin. What happens now is bitcoin is slowly climbing up so alts can catch up.

Very well said.

Based on my experience, it's always Bitcoin who goes up first then altcoin, then sometimes it is the other way around. It's like Bitcoin is the one creating the hype to start-up the engine to start the bullish season and to be fueled by Altcoins next. Hence, no matter who is first to go up in the market, it doesn't really matter to me because they are all giving me profits.

The most common scenario is the Altcoin  prices following Bitcoin's price movement's because the Bitcoin is the most common coin used as a trading pair against different coins such as ETH/BTC, EOS/BTC, ADA/BTC so any price change in bitcoin against the USD will definitely affect the price of the alt coins in the same direction.

The first 2 rarely happen and when they do, it's mostly a case of Bitcoin vs Individual altcoins

AltCoin price is always Depend on bitcoin price, not only for altcoin this price is depend full markets. I noticed that, when the bitcoin price was Dump then many altcoin price has big dumping,  and when bitcoin price was Pumped then many coins price has Increased.

for points 1 and 2 it depends on supply and demand in the market, because the increase or decrease is influenced by sales and purchases. sometimes it could also be whale play, so that's natural in crypto trading

Numbers 1 and 2 can happen anytime, and we can't predict when it will come again in the market. But yes, the crypto market now follows where bitcoin moves, so when bitcoin price is down, the altcoin will follow down. But it will not always happen because when bitcoin is down, some altcoin can increase, and even that coin can break the highest price. But once again, the altcoin will always go behind bitcoin and will follow where bitcoin moves. So you need to be careful if you analyze bitcoin or altcoin.

You missed one. Bitcoin dump and bitcoin dump.

As this, bitcoin pump or dump can cause dumps of altcoins. I very rarely see bitcoin and altcoin move up or down together. It occurs but not too often. As the difficulty and challenge to predict when altcoins will move in the same ways of bitcoin, I advice you to trade with bitcoin and use very small capital for altcoins.

I meant if bitcoin dump and altcoin dump, and if all of your capital is in altcoins you will lose both bitcoin and fiat balance. If you fortunately hold bitcoin or main of capital is bitcoin, you will only lose in fiat balance but the balance in bitcoin can be the same. Bitcoin is bullish in next year so let believe in bitcoin.

This is not an absolute statement. Did you read what I wrote above and what others have said? Not sure how long you have watched the markets and came to this conclusion.

You may see that movement or the opposite. Thing is there is not direct relation, topic has been discussed at length several times before.

Since bitcoin's price rise makes all the altcoin holders think they are going up as well, they buy and inflate the price. Thats why the alts pump. Same happens when Bitcoin dumps. There is panic selling of altcoins. Again these two timings may not match.

If you look carefully this pattern is more or less followed but depends on perspective and timing. Still dont use such statements as basis of making trades.

an understandable opinion because it is a method that is often used, supply and demand will greatly affect those who are asked, but it seems that many are playing, because they want to make a profit and they happen to control the market. things like this have existed and will continue to exist as long as they do hold that role.

Point: 3, as currently bitcoin has penetrated $ 20K, all altcoins will be affected and will follow the movement to increase, but usually altcoins that have entered the market and are still running in transactions are not for new altcoins growing and which are dead.

The third scenario is happening now because of the bull-run we are currently in.

Normally, if this isn't the case scenarios 1/2 would most likely apply. However, at times like these we can only follow what the market gives us and react accordingly - so rejoice!!!

All the scenario happens in the crypto market irrespective of the high demand in the specific coin, btc or alts, there are times btc price spikes up leaving alts behind as that sometimes signify incoming bull markets while some decent traders rush to get into some promising alts expecting the alts to follow after. In this case, it works and at times, may not work depending on the stability of the market. So actually, all these scenario happened unexpectedly and impossible for traders to decipher exactly what would happen next, whether alts before btc and vice versa.

Partly that's a certain idea about what's happening right now on both sides of the market, but the reality behind is really making that more difficult. Though bitcoin demand abruptly went so high right now, it's opposite with most altcoins that looks so dull and non progressive. Almost of the coins in the altcoins market went so low in volume and everybody was only focused now with bitcoin. There's no whales who ever supported on any good platforms which previously happened on times of previous bullrun, which I didn't see right now.

No need to bother thinking about this because in fact, both are pump simultaneously...
Altcoins will pump when the Bitcoin pump even though it moves slowly. I don't know where you get points 1 & 2 came from because what happened was point 3.

Not always applicable, specially your #1 and #2. Bitcoin is on its own path, doesn't care about the alts market, whether it's bleeding. We might say that bitcoin is already decoupling as the whole narrative has change already. Prior, we have only traders and average joes that completely shifts funds around that's why we think that #1 and #2 has happened in the past.

But now we have big companies who are really hedging their wealth and assets. Only bitcoin 100%, no alts whatsoever, that's why I said the narrative has flip, or bitcoin is really dominating the market that we haven't seen before in a bull run.

I think there has some reason when people see that btc is on the high price then people try to buy alts through btc thats why btc price gone dump for selling pressure and alts up because of buying pressure. And same thing again when btc dump then people sell alts to grab btc at cheap  price then same thing happen btc pump for buying pressure alts dump for selling pressure.  This could be a 1 reason what is my personal opinion. You should be more expert in this sector and you may know more if you want you can share your knowledge with us so that we can know how can we get profit from it.

Skrenario 3 is right now where Btc and altcoins are being pumped together, but the btc gejnotan is stronger than the altcoins from behind but for me we still have to be able to analyze it could be that after high prices are thrown away this can happen in the cryptocurrency market we have ever been experienced before, but sure this surge will be even stronger with the 3rd scenario, even I am happy to see it.

Btc already touched $ 24,000, even this is the biggest record maybe altcoins will follow it stronger in 2021.

No doubt the truth isn't far from this and as rightly stated by OP, they are scenarios and they do play out just distinctly. Scenario 3 seems to be the most frequent and it's evidently the one at play right now but then, it is agreeable that, the surges in bitcoin is reflected in altcoins as it lives investors with the notion that, bitcoin has surge too high with the price so high, having an established altcoins isn't a bad idea and hope for a rise in the nearest future which accounts for the rise in altcoins markets.
This is still tied to bitcoin and a correction in bitcoin is relatively reflected in the later though, not so much.

Bitcoin or alt-coin is not a competitor but an ally.
1. Btc pump then alts dump. But it indirectly increases again.
2. Alts pump then btc dump. It is very rare. Only a few coins could go up in price.
3. Both btc and alts follow each other. Equilibrium example. The past tells that.

Not only you are confused about the movement of Bitcoin and altcoins, but I am sure all traders must be confused about the price
movements of Bitcoin and altcoins. because the price movements of Bitcoin and altcoins are very difficult to predict. And indeed Bitcoin
and altcoins are closely related, so care must be taken when deciding to invest in Bitcoin and altcoins. You really need to do the analysis
correctly, so it's not wrong to determine the right time to buy Bitcoin and altcoins.

There are the times that those happened.

In the past, when a lot of people are expecting Bitcoin to pump, it didn't. At that time, the price of Bitcoin are expected to pump at the end of the year but at that time, ETH pumped while BTC is falling. This really depends on the time that you are looking at the price chart. These 3 scenarios happens and will keep on happening since they are not that directly affected by each other.

That's the common term used when back then.
A time when there's no option but to sell bitcoin thru different altcoins.

But now it had changed when Tether was created which has 1:1 ratio stable coins against USD.
So, why pick the side with a higher risk than the stable one?
Somehow it saves time also, you don't need to wait for an altcoin pump. Just the BTC dump.

Several time, both bitcoin and altcoins are followed each other which is happened maximum. Other two methods are followed not much time, it happen minimum time or few time.

You got it wrong, bitcoin moves independently from altcoins and altcoins are correlated to bitcoin which means that most the time they follow its movements, so roughly 90% of the time what you are going to see is bitcoin moving in a way that you cannot predict and altcoins simply following bitcoin which is what we're seeing right now, the rest of the time you'll see some independent movement in altcoins with ethereum being the leader of that market and most the time when that happens this means that there is some kind of hype in that market and its growing faster than bitcoin.

I heard this Theory that bitcoin pump than altcoin dump or altcoin pump bitcoin dump..But i realized that every altcoin depends on their team or project or their successful on market place..Many altcoins were scams or trading  volume was zero for inactive team or valueless their market priority on trade platforms.But bitcoin and eth always  try to make a different  from others, as a result, it price always increase  just need to times otherwise most of the altcoin always down or scam or zero trading volume  on the exchanger

I know and that is why I tell others to stop wasting time trying to correlate the two. It is like trying to find something in a place where it does not exist. Speculative markets are like that, dont let the patterns fool your mind into thinking that there is a link between altcoin and bitcoin price changes every single time.

For example, the litecoin halving saw a rise in price of litecoin at that time. But bitcoin did rise too but not to that extent. I could go on saying that probably people bought bitcoin at that time without knowing the reason but it would be a stretch of the fact.

I am really not happy after seeing the market movement. BTC and Alts doing the very opposite movement.
2017's crypto movement was amazing. I saw BTC and Alts were moving at the same time. I mean, those were a very good friend. ;D
But 2020 is not like that. I think 2021 will be like in 2017. Now let's see what will happen.

Bitcoin affects altcoins but altcoins have their events (developments, product releases, partnership news and many things) that affect their price. Altcoins have their rises when they have positive news certainly but they need bitcoin have a stable price. It is so vividly that most of positive and expected news from altcoins are often released when bitcoin finishes its rises or its falls.

The market in the past 2 weeks is an example. Bitcoin moves up and with the fear of bubble, bitcoin remains its price and altcoins all begin their rallies. How long the stable price of bitcoin will stay is a myth. I only know it is time for you to enjoy the altcoin rallies.

For the OP of the three questions you asked, the answers are below.

Answer to question (1).
BTC pump ! what about Altcoins ? (https://medium.com/cryptoaddicts/btc-pump-what-about-altcoins-ddffd3885d5a)

Answer to question (2).
BTC dump and alts pump. (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tradingview.com/chart/BTCUSD/JsvoHSLd-BTC-dump-and-alts-pump/%3famp)

Answer to question (3).
Bitcoin and Altcoins price correlation (https://coinpredictor.io/altcoins)

I hope you have a little time to read it, science for you.

its the number 1 that is happening not the number 3 . number 3 works when 90 percent of altcoins increase but to what i observed theres only 10 percent of alts that show an increase and they increase because there is an update with them . its not the btc that carry those alts in the greez zone . before the number 1 happen number 2 happened first if im not mistaken and i think number 3 occured too earlier this year . all 3 of the numbers happen  . now you know op , if you stay on this market you need to watch both alts and btc to see the pattern that you can use as a reference on your trade

Obviously any of them could happen, right now I can sense that one thing "could" happen and that is what I am expecting but I am not entirely sure if that will be the correct call or not. I believe bitcoin will go as high as near 30k level but fail to be 30k in the end. After that altcoin prices in dollar will be huge as well, because bitcoin increased and they increased with it.

And bitcoin will probably have a stop around those levels and drop to around 20-22k range instead, altcoins will see this as opportunity, first drop in dollar price because bitcoin drops, but use this to increase in price against bitcoin insanely high, back to where it was, probably x2, and since price didn't dropped that much, altcoin prices will be superbly high. Obviously this doesn't need to happen but it is definitely something that could potentially happen if we are lucky.

Traders have the main key in crypto, if the big traders are there it will make the token price high and that's for sure. So the price between BTC and ALTS was due to the influence of the wholesalers and it was real so far

All of it is true, it happens on the market depend on the situation, trends, and only for some altcoins. for example;

1. when bitcoin rise from $19k to $22k, xrp dropped, traders speculate that people cash out from xrp and switch the funds to bitcoin, it was happening due to the airdrop date has been passed.

2. you can check the chart, there are many circumstances this has happened in the past, such as in 2017-2018, after bitcoin price declined in December 2017, eth actually reached an all-time high over $1400 in January 2018.

3. This happens a lot in the cryptocurrency market, but only for a few altcoins that have potential and development opportunities to follow the bitcoin path to rise.

Bitcoin price only has an impact on altcoins, in fact it has a huge impact, what has happened is like yesterday and today,
when bitcoin prices are very volatile, altcoins will also be very volatile, because indeed the altcoin price in bitcoin pairs is still very undervalued.

That's how complicated the markets are, actually those are what can happen in the market but just like what you have said we are currently on the third scenario, previously when the bitcoin dumps the altcoins pumps well I hope that it would happen too if the Bitcoin dumps so we could still make profit in altcoins.

I believe #1 a long time ago when I was still young in the market and this really happens but as time goes on this kind of reaction within the market changed, Today we experience the #3 which Alts followed BTC in market reactions. Well, it all depends on the altcoins, most shit tokens doesn't do the same way with the established tokens.

Indeed there are altcoins that do fall when BTC pumps, only just those coins that kind of have a correlation with Bitcoin that will be increasing when Bitcoin is pumping. If you’re making use of the Coinbase wallet you will understand what I am saying here, if you check the price of any coin and scroll down on the mobile version you will see where it is written price correlation with Bitcoin, some of them have up to 90% correlation with Bitcoin and some of them are less than that, and there are those that doesn’t have any correlations at all.

You just have to keep in mind that Bitcoin is the boss, if Bitcoin remains in a bullish trend, the alts begin to grow, it is logical there is confidence in the market, sometimes the Alts season takes time to start because bitcoin is As it grows in price, nobody wants to lose the movement and sell the alts quickly to start buying Bitcoin, after that most of the time, being in the first retracement of Bitcoin it is usable to buy the alts, because they are cheaper and Usually when Bitcoin starts to rise the alts follow the movement.

This is because BTC is the major pair of all altcoins, you could say the reference of the price that occurs in altcoins, one of which is because of bitcoin.

However, it also cannot be made absolutely certain, because each altcoin also has its own project and prospect so that comparison with bitcoin can indeed be a reference, but not everything will also refer to the movement of bitcoin.

Recently, we have seen mostly one scenario where Bitcoin dump-altcoins also dump. And when Bitcoin pump-altcoins still dump. This is due to the fact that all the attention of investors is focused mainly on one coin - BTC. Therefore, regardless of the movement of BTC, altcoins continue to fall in price.

Usually it's like this:

BTC pumps, strong altcoins follow.
BTC dumps, whole market dumps.

It's important to remember that not all altcoins pump when BTC pumps, but all altcoins dump when BTC dumps. That's why it's usually better to buy BTC if you have money to spend.

I believe the most common thing would be bitcoin and altcoins pump and dump together, that is the most common thing that happens. Obviously sometimes they do reverse of each other and I can't say that never happened, but that is a rare situation and commonly that almost never happens, which is why I believe that people should focus on the common thing that happens which is btc and alts moving all together.

Look at the prices recently, it moved from 24k levels to under 22k and meanwhile alts went down as well, it moved to above 24k from there and alts moved up as well, and it moved to under 23k and alts moved down as well. Just in the past 10 days we have seen many examples of bitcoin and alts moving all together, that is why I honestly believe that we should be excited about whats going to happen to bitcoin if you own some money in altcoins.

Just like you rightly observed, most of these altcoins do not really follow the Bitcoin price trend as expected I. This bull run. And in some case, the altcoins sometimes rise in prices with higher percentage than Bitcoin. We saw that in 2017/2018.
But leaving your digital assets should be considered to be in Bitcoin as the most trusted and the market determinant of all cryptos.

All of these scenarios are correct its really happening, however it depends on the market situation on what is going to be the trend. Usually altcoins are following the bitcoin trend, so if btc increase we can expect alts to do the same as well. In some cases even bitcoin is increasing there are only few altcoins (usually the established) can make it to follow the current status of bitcoin.

But after the bullrun last 2017 wherein btc is in peak price, the next year (2018) alts started to skyrocket alone while bitcoin is slowly decreasing after its ath. So its always different, btc and alts has different use cases and purpose. Since bitcoin is the primary crypto, it has huge investors compared to alts, the reason why its always on the top. A reliable digital currency and as crypto investment.

I think it is time we support bitcoin fully and let it go completely parabolic because it will eventually help all the market in com8ng months as all the alts especially the established ones will follow btc that will cause intense pumps in their prices as well.

This time, bitcoin keeps on surging seeing the market very bullish and if this will continue, we can see potential altcoins increasing their prices too due to the bullish impact from bitcoin. Especially uf bitcoin will be totally mainstream, we can expect more altcoins to surge their prices in the market.
 

It needs time to see bitcoin become mainstream, but bitcoin is on the way to reach more people out there, especially the institution that introduces bitcoin in many ways. The altcoin still waiting for bitcoin movements, and if bitcoin price can moves to the high price more than $30k, that will be the sign for the altcoins to start the rally, and in that time, the altcoin season will come. But before that can happen, we can enjoy this moment by buying and sell bitcoin and altcoin, and we should try to make a profit to increase our bitcoin amount.

It is very difficult to determine when the pump and dump of BTC and Alts will increase. Currencies and tokens increase in price based on their supply of demand. But I think both BTC and Alts follow each other. Bitcoin ranks at the top of all currencies in the crypto market. Depending on the price of this currency, the price of other currencies will increase. When the price of Bitcoin starts to go down, when traders reduce the amount of investment, then other Altcoins start to be dumped.

What I realized recently in the past few months is the fact that when everything stands still without much movement (could be under 5% or so) that is the base we have, after that when bitcoin skyrockets, let's say goes from 22.8k or whatever levels to 25.7k levels, that means bitcoin goes up a lot right?

Well, what happens during this period is that altcoins first goes down a bit, it can't catch up and the price falls, bitcoin price of these coins fall as well, but in the end after the fall, they start to increase a lot, maybe even more than bitcoin itself depending on which coin you are looking at.

So there is this moment when bitcoin increases and alts go down but then recover and go higher. Hence, if you are quick enough, you could see bitcoin going up, and alts going down and you could buy alts at that time and profit from it when they go higher.

Markets are complicated that is a given however I think that as time passes the scenario in which altcoins are pumping significantly while bitcoin is dumping is going to become more and more rare, now that institutional investors are in the market they are not going to get rid of their coins as quickly as the people that held those coins in the past bringing more stability to bitcoin, and when we take into account that the trust in altcoins is very low as well then it is clear why that scenario is becoming rarer by the day.

Yeah, the rinse and repeat strategy, I like it mate. There is no need to think about BTC and alts relationship if you are all into earning bucks while trading your favourite coin. Just now I posted elsewhere that the relation exists solely based on pump drive of BTC and its influence on the altcoin holders (investors) who make it possible to rise the coin value.

Virtually it does look like they have some sort of correlation but it's just after-effect of investments. In the long run when BTC would be gone very high, there will be time the altcoins will not gain that much popularity due to high priced BTC. I mean the attention would be on BTC rather than alts.

Following the basis of supply and demand, Bitcoin gather much higher attention from the eyes of more investors than alts.

Many people thinks that market will experienced good rise when Bitcoin start to gained more support but as of this moment that's not the case for most alts, some gained but not everyone get the same level of support. Bitcoin already achieve new ath while the entire alts are still far from their previous ath.

Definitely more attention and hence a more liquid market.

In fact the market is filled with so many altcoins that do basically the same thing, it make no sense in putting money in any of them. What people need is a decentralized censorship resistance currency and bitcoin does that completely.

Why altcoins came into existence is because some greedy developers wanted to reach next to bitcoin and started some vaporware to cash grab some investors into their scheme. Today this seems like real but at that time it was a nice money making opportunity.

It would be better for altcoin hodlers to sell at any highs that come in. Dont wait for crossing the previous ATH, just because bitcoin crossed its ATH - because it might never happen again and dump while you are drooling.

I think it's in this order, bitcoin pumps, altcoins dump. Bitcoin dumps altcoins dumps still then bitcoin pumps and takes altcoins with it but just selective ones and not the whole altcoins market that's why you're advice to choice selectively, altcoins you want to invest in to avoid picking wrong train. That's what's currently happening in the industry although it wasn't always like that.

In 2017 it was altcoins doing most of the pumping due to the ico hypea, assuming the defi hype was occuring right now and not earlier in the year as it did then we would have had similar market scenario as of 2017 but that's not the case.

Bitcoin is receiving all the attention now so non of the scenario as previous years can be certain to occur again. If bitcoin was to dump now it'll take down all altcoins with it but that can't be said when bitcoin is pumping because it does that without taking the altcoins market with it.

^ ICO hype specially got ETH a lot higher I remember that one. Everyone bought ETH in order to invest into ICO's and there were few with over a billion dollars invested as well, it was like a joke at the time that new projects got that much money.

Nowadays something similar happened, ETH got higher because there were people who wanted to invest into DeFi projects as well which is why I think it is quite obvious that people actually increased the price of all crypto currencies in the same manner, they got into bitcoin, and eth, and made profit, and turned that profit into ETH and that was it.

I think 2017 and 2020 has some similar stuff, but the biggest difference is we started from 700 dollars and reached to 20k in 2017 and that was too unrealistic and unsustainable, here in 2020 we didn't had something like that, from around 9k to 27k levels is not that weird, it is just 3x and totally sustainable as well.

Specially with these huge corporations coming in, not only it is sustainable but it is also just a base we can work from and can get bitcoin higher.

Don’t go for what people saying.
The phrase “people saying “ itself is a estimation and assumption.
You should know how the market works.
If you are a newbie, then it would be easy to make you understand OP by taking an asset into consideration for example.
Btc is also like an asset, there is a fixed amount of Bitcoins present in the market. So if the demand of BTC goes higher then the supply will be less and this increases the price of the coin and the vice versa.
Now i hope you got a clear view OP.

The ICO hype took the ETH to new levels during 2016 - 2017 rally as everyone was investing in ETH to get into the market and it was a joke that every project was able to raise millions even with shitty ideas and then the scams followed up and it continued till the market had a big correction and this time around there is the DeFi hype along with the ETH upgrade to POS as well as everyone is trying to purchase 32 ETH to stake and there are even group buys to stake the coins.

When it comes to bitcoin the institutional investment is pouring in and they are taking the market to new levels and with the economic situation not that great globally everyone is hedging on the decentralized currency.

Yes follow,  but btc is not follow alt. Alt coin trader always follow bitcoin price. If you saw price chart you seen that when bitcoin price increase many alt coin price dump. When btc price fall down you see alt coin price don't increase.

This happens when that pump without any reason, lasts for a few minutes to a few days.


This is not like alts pump only when btc dumps, but when it is in sideways too because the money is being shifted from btc to alts.


This happens when a bullrun begins where almost every coin follows btc's rally as those who cannot buy btc due to high price, go for altcoins to save fees or for investment.

Well, it's not all altcoins could be affected from Bitcoin. But, the majority of it is get affected by Bitcoin's price movement.

But still the mainstream media makes it too hype and attract more potential investors into cryptocurrency, even though they are just following the hype train and once the hype is gone they will go back to shittalk cryptocurrency again like in 2017 lol

I would have to say bitcoin pumps does increase the alt prices as well but for some reason people do not see that or acknowledge that. I mean bitcoin went up this year right? How much did it increased? It increased about 4x at the very best case, look at ethereum though, it was around 130 dollars and now it is 720 dollars!! that is 5.5x times the increase as well.

It means if you consider it all, if you bought ETH at the start of the year instead of bitcoin, you would have made a lot more money. Sure XRP went down but that was their own mistake and it is not about crypto at all, you can look at all other coins and you can find similar increases. So, I would say "bitcoin pumps, alts pump even more" is the real deal, not dump. I like investing into alts and I haven't had an upset on them for the past 2 years or so, I have made a decent return.

Bitcoin increases, altcoin prices go up? I think you are wrong, when bitcoin prices go up,
altcoins tend to dump, and if bitcoin decreases then altcoins will also dump,
this is the relationship between bitcoin and altcoin, unless bitcoin is sideways then altcoins usually will try to go up.

It's not so close as you said that dude. usually the altcoin will be seeing its fundamental and then when the price of bitcoin becomes stabilize and altcoin will be trying to follow bitcoin.
The relationship of altcoin and bitcoin will be there when the bitcoin pumpers are feeliing boring with bitcoin markets and they will start to pump the altcoins. When there's a good news for altcoin and those whales will be moving to the altcoins and create pumps.

Are you sure about that? Bitcoin has increased a lot this year, and looking at altcoins, they all increased as well. So what makes you think that when bitcoin goes up, altcoins go down? Because we do not have anything like that right now. Only coin that is down at the moment is XRP and that is because of whats going on with SEC, nothing more.

I agree that whenever bitcoin has a pump, for just a few hours (1-2 hours) alts look like they are dumping, but in reality bitcoin increases which means altcoins go down in bitcoin value, but as soon as they realize the price going up, they try to get back to bitcoin price, which makes them higher in dollar price. Look at the top 10 coins (omit the stable coins) and you will find that all of the coins listed there has increased in the past 1 year, which is the proof that when bitcoin pumps, altcoins pump as well.

People do have different observation regarding the market because the market is really that volatile that sometimes both Bitcoin and Altcoins get along, sometimes when the Bitcoin pump, then the Altcoins dump and the other way around. But most of the time there is no decent pattern which makes both markets unpredictable because there are Altcoins that do still excel despite of Bitcoins ups and downs. Still the status of Altcoins do depend on the demand and quality of the coin. There are different volume and demand depending on people's perceptions that makes the market move accordingly so we really cannot determine at all times the relationship between the two markets.

This 3 scenario could interchange randomly depending on the trend. We cant just say that it should stick on #3 all of the time because lots of instances where #1 and #4 did happen.

which means you should really be careful on deciding neither you do get involved with alts or would simply stick out to btc.You would know on what would be your next step if you do

see the prices arent really that reacting much specially on altcoins which neither they can go along with bitcoin market trend or would just simply stay low and doesnt really make
any significant increase or movement.

It's not wrong at all. Sometimes it's really happening but it doesn't mean altcoin can go to the opposite thing. Bitcoin bearish market will always trigger the altcoin market to be dumped and this is absolute. An altcoin is not always getting dumped when bitcoin was pumping.
Someone already explained the possible scenarios that could happen with bitcoin and altcoins. The trend is also playing the main roles in this case.

With the domination of Bitcoin as much as 69%, there is no need to hesitate to focus on investing in Bitcoin now. Because investing in altcoins is
more risky if you see such a large domination of Bitcoin, my advice is to move the altcoins that you have into Bitcoin. Because the price of Bitcoin
has skyrocketed steadily create a new ATH.

Don't be sorry for missing the opportunity to get profit from Bitcoin. My prediction if you want to invest in altcoins could be in the middle of 2021,
because there will be alt seasons at the end of 2021. But my advice is not 100% accurate, keep doing research each of you before deciding to
invest in Bitcoin or altcoins.

If people want to play secure, it's better to put all altcoins on BUSD or USDT to keep you liquidity, we don't know what can happen, and at this hours the market look very red

The problem is the generalization that we use for alts is simply too extensive, what I mean is that we have thousands of altcoins so putting them all together like that is not fair for them, ethereum is a good project so it makes sense it went up along with bitcoin especially when we had that DeFi craze, however when you look at coins outside the top 100 or even the top 50 you will see the majority dumped after bitcoin went up since all of that money came to bitcoin once again since it became the main interest of institutional investors.

Bitcoin, BCH, ETH, and Litecoin seem on the same page almost all the time, those altcoins always following bitcoin movement to increase while most altcoins on the red side.
We can't generalize all the altcoins because big investors don't want to put their money there, and the players remain the same as in 2018 who dump it, they don't want to put so much money on it in fear of a crash that might happen if bitcoin fall. At the current market condition, altcoins remain on the downhill because of the black swan effect caused by xrp, traders sold altcoins after it crashed.

Putting altcoins in USDT might look pretty good when the price of the altcoin ke low. Now since the pump happened in BTC and subsequently in alts you are making such a statement. Perhaps the top altcoins are going to be useful in this regard but majority of users here have bought shitcoins and are far from profits in them.

Again it's great if you can sell altcoins for USDT - hold the tether till bitcoin drops and buy the bitcoin at the dip. Scenario might not always work and you will be stuck with tether in your portfolio. Still that us less evil than owning shitcoins which go nowhere.

No one can really predict what would be the price of the Bitcoin and the altcoins actually no one can 100% predict it right all of us are just basing on the available resources. Currently what I see on the market is that the Bitcoin pumps and the altcoin were about to go rally.

Do you think this is a good time to buy Bitcoin?

Indeed. We can create our own TA or speculation regards this but this is not a hundred percent for sure because Cryptocurrencies especially Bitcoin cannot be precisely predicted. However, one thing is for sure if Bitcoin pumps, alts will follow, and in some rare cases, alts rise first then next Bitcoin. Like now where Bitcoin started the rally and now alts are also beginning to make an entry.

Whatever time you want because every time is a good time to buy Bitcoin and now the outcome will only depend on how you will manipulate or manage the process. Like if you are a holder, supposedly you are now in the where you need to make a sell but you could choose to buy now and take this opportunity because Bitcoin is still growing.

Everyone knows that you can't predict what will happen, the same thing goes for almost any investment ever, you can't exactly know what is going to happen, but people do end up investing anyway and people continue to speculate anyway, because if we just say "well I don't know what to do, so I will stay away" that means we wouldn't be able to invest into anything in the world.

This means even though we do not know what is going to happen, we just make a guess, make up a prediction out of our heads, and we just act accordingly, that is how you could make a profit, otherwise we are not going to be making any profit at all, and we would be just watching. Would you rather take that risk and probably make a profitable investment? Or would you rather be someone who just stays out of things and only watch what others are doing in the crypto world?

Once in a while bitcoin is revitalizing rapidly that alts are in effect forgotten about. In the event that alts siphon, it implies the publicity is there and will result structure any merchants trade their btc for that specific altcoin. However, it won't generally happen on the grounds that when bitcoin is down, some altcoin can increment, and even that coin can break the most exorbitant cost. Yet, indeed, the altcoin will consistently go behind bitcoin and will follow where bitcoin moves.

Every one of those can occur at no specific request. Happy that you have requested this sort from perception as it shows that you're genuinely intrigued to think about how the market. It resembles Bitcoin is the one making the publicity to fire up the motor to turn over the bullish season and to be powered by next altcoins .

as day traders we don't need to be confused with the movements that have occurred in the market, in trading just follow the current market price movements, indeed some altcoins mostly follow bitcoin price movements, so trade according to what you think can be profitable, and when the market moves fast With fluctuating prices, you should be able to quickly make up your mind to buy or sell.

Both BTC and altcoin are all digital currency, which know one can predict when it pump and dump.it hard for both of them to pump at the same time and dump in the Same time in the market. Here are two persons that control their pump and dump in the exchange market:
1• supplier: when ever you see the price of bitcoin increasing, show that the supplier are few in the market. Likewise altcoin, when there is population in demand in the market, show that the supply has reduced in the market. it is than you will see a massive increase of altcoin in the market.
2• Demand: whenever you see the price of bitcoin decreasing in the market, show that the demand are very few in the market, likewise altcoin also. 

Based on my experience trading, the relationship between Bitcoin and altcoins is that when the Bitcoin pump, the altcoins will dump. Since all
altcoins holders usually move their altcoins into Bitcoin, they want to feel the profit from Bitcoin too. And if the Bitcoin price is dumped, usually
the altcoins price will also be dumped, because investors usually secure their funds into stable coins or fiat. The price of the altcoins will be pumped
if the price of Bitcoin is sideaway, and slowly the domination of Bitcoin will fall, so it will not take long  for the altcoins to pump.

To a trader these thoughts come to their mind normally seeing the altcoins go up with bitcoin rise and then bleeding out as bitcoin stagnates over time at a price range. But I feel this is not needed to be thought. In case the altcoin that you bought is going up just sell it make the profit.

There is no direct connection between the two but we can say that a general bullish news for crypto in general or just bitcoin can pump the altcoins too. Is the reverse true? I did see bitcoin pump a bit when litecoin declared its halving, so I cant say no but I lack more evidence to observe. Of course Litecoin is a very old coin and considered as "Silver" to bitcoin.

I have appear to be the majority of the occasions during a bull run Bitcoin siphons first and afterward altcoins follow after accordingly, trailed by a dump of altcoins and a dump of bitcoin. Here and there bitcoin is mobilizing rapidly that alts are as a rule forgot about. On the off chance that alts siphon, it implies the publicity is there and will result for some, brokers trade their btc for that specific altcoin.

Alt and bitcoin both have their own marketplace and totally depend on their market. Hiwever there are some combination between them but not all.
We seen 2 days ago bitcoin price dump but ETH and other altcoin pump. This show altcoin not depend upon bitcoin
Some Eth based token dump with eth price and thia ia truth.

Thank you for your answer
I bought a small amount of bitcoin and hope to make a good profit in the long term 8)

I didn't see that, when bitcoin dump from, all other major alts followed, including Ethereum Cardano BNB and DOT. So I will disagree with you that there are no correlations. They are still depended on bitcoin price movement, and they enjoy the trickle effect. Although it's two different market, still investors are shifting and moving funds the same time, same goes when their is a dump.

to be more relevant now point 3 is the most obvious. Altcoins always follow the movement of bitcoin, this happens because many pairs between altc / btc on many exchanges cause altcoins to follow bitcoin significantly. so when altcoins have increased significantly, almost 80% of altcoins have increased, but not all altcoins follow this trend.

To help you to understand, I think you should know about sentiment first. For me sentiment is something that influence cryptocurrency currency price. When there is a good sentiment on BTC then investors will tend to use their money (fiat or altcoin) to buy BTC so they can get profit. When there is a bad sentiment on BTC then investors will buy altcoins or gold or etc using their BTC. When there is a good sentiment on cryptocurrency then booth BTC and altcoin price will rise. That's my opinion.

Bitcoin is king of all coin. So alts coin is alternative coin. So   any coin not reach the Bitcoin price and Bitcoin place. It any time to up and down. Bitcoin is any time to hit the pricem. So people will be waiting for the price increase. People hold the Bitcoin long time. Alta coin is also any time to changing. So follow the all coins price day by day. Then apply your place.

you have just make the answer wide but the meaning is there , and that is Bitcoin is always the starter of every bullish season and without Bitcoins pumping then market will never have a Bullrun.
But if you know how to handle Investing in Altcoin ? then For sure you will be making lots of money in a short span of time (but never forget this to be very Risky)

Btc and alts don't actually repeat their history or follow any pattern because they're both unpredictable and volatile. I don't think the dump and pump differences aren't connected with each other because mostly different events are the ones that are affecting and influencing the changes in the market movement.

It is commendable how that as a newbie, you have made such an acute observation such as this. It shows how interested you are in trading.
You should be aware that the movement of the price of altfoins and Bitcoin are actually unrelated. Some people just try to relate everything to bitcoin just like they relate stocks and gold price.
Since you're new, I'd advised that you do not concern yourself with news like this. Stick with bitcoin, buy when it is low and sell when it is high. With more experience trading, you can then add some potential altcoins

Just because bitcoin is the starter doesn't mean that it is the biggest earner neither, go look at year to date profits, you will see that bitcoin increased a lot but there were other coins that increased a lot more as well, it is just that it is harder to find which coin would go up, whereas it is easier to make profit from bitcoin because it is the most known one.

I have seen people lose so much money that some guy literally killed himself the other day in my nation from all the money he lost, what did he do? He used leverage trading and then after he lost a lot he put all the rest into chilliz AFTER chilliz went up 5x in a week. As long as you are making a wrong move, it doesn't matter if it is bitcoin or altcoin, but if you want to be sure, just go with bitcoin and you will profit and if you are sure about an altcoin you could pick that as well.

When BTC dominance is high, it affects the alts then after BTC dips, its the alts turn to pump. Think of it as a circulation of money. This is because this is the money flow as follows:

1. Fiat (e.g. USD, EUR, GBP)

2. BTC

3. Large Cap Altcoins (e.g $ETH)

4. Mid Cap Altcoins

5. Low Cap Altcoins

6. BTC again

7. Fiat

"Altcoin" is a combination of the two words "alt" and "coin" and includes all alternatives to Bitcoin. The success of Bitcoin as the first peer-to-peer digital currency paved the way. Many altcoins are trying to target the perceived limitations of Bitcoin.The BTC pumps at once, your heart is racing. You think that the whole market goes up — because you know that the Alts are very correlated in recent months.

Remember there is only one king of crypto market and that its bitcoin. Rest all alt coins are like followers of bitcoin. When bitcoin goes up alt coins goes up and vice verse. Alt coins are not in a position to move the market on there own.

Yeah, as per many veteran members of this forum, we do not need any altcoin investments as bitcoin itself got all the power of good returns for our money. I agree with them because as per them we do not need any diversification in this crypto space.

They all happen during their time, and by the way the third scenario you have mentioned is not really how it works. Yes a lot of altcoins might follow Bitcoin to whatever directions it goes to because they correlate with BTC at about 90% (more or less), but it is not every altcoins in the market that correlates with Bitcoin and when you match some of them you will see that they have like 5% or even 0% correlation with bitcoin. So there is nothing like all alts following bitcoin, the right way to put it should be BTC and some alts follows each other.

I think the best explanation for the third phenom we see right now is that a lot people made a decent profit in Bitcoins, which gave them new capital to invest in Alt Coins. So the more money we make in trading bitcoins, the more we can invest in other coins. That is probably why alt coins are currently following bitcoins. So correlation is very high as long as both of them are rising. But what is going to happen once bitcoin is falling again? I really hope our alt coins will stay strong.

I have always said and I will always say this, the "phenom" that alts go up when btc goes down or btc goes up when alts go down has been broken before 2017 peak and never been the same since those days. But people seem to like to ignore that. Look at the price of top 10 coins in the past year, they all went up, they are all coins that got up together and when there was small corrections along the way they all went down together as well. This is why I think it is quite important to realize that there is nothing we could be doing that would change it. So long story short, we are doing one hell of a job by saying the opposite of what is going on in reality.

I mean if you still think that btc and alts move opposite directions that means you believe bitcoin became 60k so all other coins are few cents now and none of them have good marketcap, you don't? Well that's good because that is not true.

Remember back when ICOs in 2017 become a trend and a thing.
It was almost like that they're almost independently treading on their own without Bitcoin.
But then scams were now bombarding the investor's ecosystem and now we're back to that kind of mindset that alts will almost always tend to follow Bitcoin's pattern in increase.

Altcoins can go their own way in terms of price but that totally depends on Bitcoin dominance percentage, obviously the higher Bitcoin dominance is the higher its price impact would be on altcoins price and trend, but what causes BTC dominance to increase or decrease is Bitcoin's ability to keep being at a certain price range, more volatility from Bitcoin causes increase in Btc dominance which means if Bitcoin price increases or decreases significantly in a short period of time it's short-term bad for altcoins, while more sideways with slow increase in price from time to time is good for altcoins.

It was around march 2017 that Bitcoin dominance started dropping continuously and hit bottom at 35% on January 2018:

https://i.imgur.com/iihHLfD.jpg

The price of bitcoin has an effect on other altcoins .There has been a speculation that bitcoin and altcoins have an inverse relationship when it rises other altcoins fall because people are selling their altcoins to go into bitcoin and when bitcoin fall, other coins fall because people are selling everything.When the price of bitcoin goes sideways people diversity into altcoins and ethereum prices goes up.

In general it is like that, when the price of bitcoin rises, the altcoin price tends to be corrected, if the price of bitcoin is corrected the altcoin price will also be corrected,
but actually there are other factors to find out about it, namely looking at the position of the bitcoin dominance chart at that time,
For example, when the chart of bitcoin dominance correction and the price of bitcoin is sideways, the altcoin price will go up.

As a beginner trader, I used to be confused and often stuck with very volatile crypto market conditions. But the movement
price of bitcoin will affect the altcoin market. But I learned from history a few years ago to understand. And it turns out that
experience is precious and can give us the expertise in trading. As a beginner trader, you need to learn a lot about crypto trading.

totally agree that to continue learning because the changes now are far different from the past. The movement of bitcoin will clearly influence the movement of altcoins, everyone believes that and can't argue with that.
but the upward movement of bitcoin last year which was very fast could not be followed by the movement of altcoins, this indicates that there has been a significant change.

New altcoins can make an increase when bitcoin makes a correction or is in a stable state, altcoins will increase and some may reach their ATH.
now bitcoin is changing rapidly both up and down. If the altcoin is not able to perform well it will lag behind in the upgrade. bitcoin is already very profitable in day trading because the difference is quite high.

I don't think so if they are going to become synchronized because afaik every time the bitcoin pumps there's a possibility that the alternative coins will pump too and they become dependent on this but not all the alternative coins doing this.

Before going trading it's better to make an update about the coin we would like to trade there's a chance it will up or dump to keep aware of your self if this is the time to get your income.

3rd scenario - Musk's tweets then btc pump

Forget about altcoins, they will never pump if bitcoin is not healthy.

Look, the pump started when bitcoin broke its old ATH, the almost $20k to be specific and the altcoins season happen.
What I'm trying to say is that bitcoin dominance is too high and obviously its been dominating the market.

let's observe, if bitcoin will dump, for sure altcoins will follow. I'll bet on that.

It is only natural that this happens because basically the trendsetter in crypto is Bitcoin.  When the Crypto Mascot drops, the environment will be greatly impacted.  That is why Bitcoin's success will pave a bright path for other coin coins.  Everyone who is just starting out in the world of crypto will only focus on Bitcoin.  Though Bitcoin is a kind of crypto.  I firmly believe that the future of Bitcoin will be very bright as long as institutional investors continue to join in because they are interested in the technology being developed.

What's important to realise and a point that comes out to me from @bitgolden is that the two, BTC and Alts can't be decoupled. There will always be a relationship between the two with Bitcoin leading and Alts following (marginally). If you think your thoughts are drifted from this dogma then you need to go back to the fundamentals. We see this every time, BTC goes up so do alts and when the dump comes it all starts with BTC...

From the little experience am having in trading mostly bitcoin controls the market whenever bitcoin is dumping 90% of coins will definitely dump to and whenever bitcoin is pumping most altcoins also pump gradually so depending on your choice you can go for bitcoin and you can also go for altcoins. But i will advise you to choose depending on the capital you are having if you are having little capital I will advise you to trade altcoin but if your capital is kind of hug I will definitely advice you to trade bitcoin for maximum profit but both altcoins and bitcoin are not really bad to trade.

We can noticed that BTC will pump then followed by altcoins but there are few altcoins sometimes does not depend in the price action of BTC.
I notice cryptocurrency like XRP, THETA, ADA, TFUEL are sometimes pump even the rest of the cryptocurrency are dumps, then vice versa.
I believe that it's a big factor that BTC can affect the price action of all altcoins because most of them have pairs to BTC.

Mate good to see u here first you have to know about crypto market place because it's very volatile and risky. Most of the newbies have mistake and under trapped the market. So some time btc and altcoins move same ways. And some time is not. Altcoins depends on bitcoin on that time bitcoin dominance has sometime to stable so altcoins move uptrends. And then bitcoin increase altcoins move slowly. And most of the altcoins has pairs with btc so that is why altcoins some time in bearish mode because of btc down

That you’re seeing the third scenario taking place now doesn’t mean that the rest cannot also take place, it all takes time and you see them happening, they all happen, but not all the time. Even now that you think that the third scenario is taking place, you’re forgetting that there are still altcoins that are not following BTC right now.

I guess you only looked at coins like Ethereum and other similar coins and you think that the whole market is moving that way, but that is not true. If you’re making use of Coinbase app you’re going to be able to see coins that are not correlating and you will also see the ones that are correlating with bitcoin.