Bitcoin Forum

'The Sovereign Individual' predicts by 2025, the Information Age (Bitcoin & the Internet) will end the current political system.

In my mind it's extremely clear; governments losing power to the information age & a cyber currency (Bitcoin) is inevitable. There’s no borders or jurisdiction online - they can regulate it as much as they want; cost to enforce to all their citizens is too high. In the mean time, people are losing faith in fiat currencies. Slowly, then all at once people will jump to the currency that doesn’t rob them - Bitcoin. Their biggest revenue streams are the hidden taxes i.e inflation & various forms of money printing. 21m Bitcoin only - their revenues will dry up. Money is power & they will lose it eventually.

Sure there's going to be a transition period; they will no doubt do something coercive to retain their power. If it's too much, citizens will just riot, protest, tax rebel (Exit into a Bitcoin circular economy).

Love to hear thoughts & opinions :) It just seems so obvious to me at this point.

While Bitcoin may have gotten quite some attention over the years, I do not think people are going to riot, protest, tax, or rebel for the right to use it, nor do they need to. What we should do is use Bitcoin through decentralized media, that way governments do not have any sort of contol or regulation.

To the main topic, Bitcoin is not meant to end the current political system or even the financial system. It's simply a peer-to-peer network which offers users an alternative from the fiat system and people are free to use it whichever way suits them; as a reserve asset, hedge fund or as a speculative asset.
It's difficult to predict what stage Bitcoin would be in the next 50-100 years, but it can not serve as the global currency as it is. Imo, both fiat and the bitcoin standard compliment each other; one as a currency, the other as the global reserve asset.

There is no cost for regulations when you have the vast majority accepting them. If we were to take a survey, the largest % of people more than likely see Bitcoin as a get-rich-quick scheme rather than a way to avoid financial enslavement our actual system brings us into every day.

We can't have a decentralized governance. That's just not how it works. How will there be decentralized police? Who replaces the attributed functions IRS has? How do you make it so that everyone lives equally, without seeking more power - when greed and thirst for power is basically part of the human nature? Who decides what's truly right and wrong? Who would really fight against Bitcoin regulations? Have we seen any riots against KYC? Why not?

Bitcoin as one global economy is just a dream and nothing more at this point. You see a "revolution" because it's brought up on the internet by people who share common interests with you - for the average Joe, BTC is just a sweet USD profit.

Don't think Bitcoin makes you completely free. It doesn't provide complete freedom and anonymity. If the government bans BTC in your country tomorrow, good luck using it without leaking information good enough for authorities to catch you. Bitcoin does bring something new to the game, but it cannot fix wealth inequality and the world's problems on its own.

At what point do you stop using fiat i.e dollars though? 35% of all US dollars were printed this year alone & they still enforced taxation

Bitcoin is a winner takes all situation. History show people are drawn to the best money. There was a gold standard, then they deceived people for 100 years. People were enslaved by a corrupted gold standard. The Bitcoin standard cannot be corrupted - it's power to the people.

People have been conditioned for years to think whatever governments do is right. When you step back & look at the financial system & how the distribution of wealth impoverishes the many & enriches the few; you only come to one conclusion - fiat currencies (dollars, euro, yen) are all scams. They're all trending to zero - at tax payers expense.

Not really fan in politics but with bitcoin integrated to government system then I think it will not do due unstable value of bitcoin. However, the government could still create their own cryptocurrency for spending especially in their budgeting process and transparency. It could eradicate corruption due to the fact that every expenses will be recorded through blockchain and could be question anytime especially if the expenses being made are questionable.

Information/Internet age actually strengthens the governments. They do more surveillance and more easily because of social networks and online payments, they can affect public opinion by hiring specialists, the so-called trolls/sockpuppets/shills. Bitcoin as a currency has tiny adoption, and as an investment it's not a threat to governments, because they can and do regulate centralized exchanges. 10 years ago when Bitcoin was just starting, people were saying exactly same things - fiat is doomed, Bitcoin will change the world, etc. And where it is now? And why should it be different in the next 10 years?

Drugs are illegal, yet nearly everyone is using them.

Anyone can run a node & operate as a self-sovereign individual outside of government control. Anyone can download a wallet & accept Bitcoin outside of the system. The cost to enforce to physically stop people from doing these things - it's far too high. It should be our right to choose the money we prefer & have transactional privacy - natural law. You cannot truly regulate Bitcoin. Especially as more people start using Lightning, CoinJoin etc. They would have to turn the internet off - simply won't happen.

Governments merely provide protection services & force far too much taxation to pay for it. Bitcoin is free market capitalism. It will drive innovation & growth, not stifle it. How much are their protection services worth to you each year? I bet you a privatized version of all their services would easily compete with taxation/inflation/debt/QE/stimulus/bond buy backs - theft at the tax payer goes on & on. Personally I think all their services are worth a few thousand bucks a year. Politicians are wasteful & have no accountability for anyones money. All they care about it is looking their best during their term. This system incentivizes debt & poor spending habits.

It isn't a dream, it's here - anyone can use it. Bitcoin & internet empowers people like never before. Not standing behind Bitcoin at this point highlights your lack of knowledge of the system. It is the closest thing we have to freedom. Bitcoin can be used pretty damn privately if you know how. It will only get easier. Look at Pheonix & Samourai wallet - both super easy to achieve decent privacy. It shouldn;t be a crime to have privacy. These laws aren't to protect you. They just need more tax revenue. KYL/AML is being used as a fear tactic. At the very least, they should allow us to offset the losses of the dollar against the gains on Bitcoin. It's a complete hypocisy.

Using Bitcoin is the first step to opt out.

No one should be happy with government/corporate surveillance - in what world should this be ok? They're capitalizing on every single person to make themselves richer & acquire more control & power. They are putting everyone in danger by enforcing rules like KYC/AML. People's lives are being destroyed because they have been forced to hand over their ID.

Using the steps listed in bitcoinprivacy.guide is a vote against it.

You don't have to use centralized exchange, that's your choice - use Bisq, Hodl Hodl. Get paid in Bitcoin.

Bitcoin will not terminate anything, nor the political systems or fiat currency.
It is meant to be an alternative payment without a centralized party, even some fiat currencies have been flunked due to the lack of the government to manage the country's economy, most of it happens because of corrupt politicians, and then bitcoin will emerge as an alternative to their fiat currency that loses its value.

They can create their own currency; it will only digitalize all the same problems. It will only force more control on the population, pushing more people away form it. It will simply make Bitcoin look more attractive.

Blockchains used outside of Bitcoin are a database & can easily be corrupted. Do you really think they would fix the supply of fiat & opensource their code? Even if they did, Bitcoin has already won.

For me it's very clear that I'd choose bitcoin over the currency that my government controls. What are the things that make us still use fiat then?

We don't use it because we think it's better we use it because other people use it.

Why do other people use it? Because they are used to it. They come from the time where there was no choice. You went to work you got paid in fiat. Now they have a choice, we have a choice. For us it's going to be normal for them it will be a change of habits they had for decades.

So it will happen but we'll have to wait until a whole new generation grows knowing they have a choice.

Bitcoin is far apart from the political system followed around the globa. It has been making some changes to the financial system, but the same hasn't gained the adoption similar to the traditional system. It takes time, because people won't simply trust or believe something has got value. Now with its growth people are well aware about bitcoin and its true potential. Maybe this can make a change among people as more and more large networks are investing into bitcoin as well as getting importance similar to currency payments.

We use it because we have no other choice. It is the easiest method to use, we are used to it, we grew old with it. I wanted to use bitcoin in our country, but which store accepts it? The solution? Sell bitcoin and get the fiat I need. That is why I usually chose to hold it rather than use it because I have a lot of reasons to hold it than choosing stores to use it.

I do agree that people though are getting intelligent over the year when it comes to fighting for their freedom but I think we will still be at the losing end not because we are powerless but because the cause is not actually to destroy something.  It is to create a new opportunity, a new method and a new system.

There are about 200 countries on the planet, with very different political systems. which one is going to collapse exactly, the Chinese system ? The Putin system ? Kings, dictators, democracies of all kinds ?

Personally I believe it's good that politicians have some control over currencies. They're screwing things up right now, but this wasn't by design, and things have gone OK for a long time. A global hard currency would cause a lot of problems, only solving one : store of value.

'The Sovereign Individual' in China, Cambodia, most of Africa, and many more... This is delusional :D

IMO no current technology is capable of ending any Political System.

You cannot compare something you could purchase in a completely anonymous way to something that has a permanent, irreversible ledger and does not forgive you for any little mistake.

You're talking about the cost to enforce this as if everyone around the world is using Bitcoin at this point. The number of people actually supporting Bitcoin and not just its price bumps is very, very small. Bitcoin regulation would not make a big fuss right now, because the number of people using it is just too small for their voices to matter.

Anyone can download a wallet and accept Bitcoin outside the system, yet you're doing it through the Internet that your gov is permanently monitoring. You could argue Tor is a solution to that - well, trust me, it's quite hard to do everything the right way. And if everyone used it through Tor and mixers/CoinJoin, you would see an immediate opposition from the governments. The only reason they have stopped the Bitcoin oppression is that they found a way to monitor probably more than half of the blockchain events. People aren't using it the right way, so they can easily link events to identities. A heaven of control and surveillance for the govs.

I'm curious to find out how Bitcoin would work in a world where Internet is decentralized and the massive businesses of Internet providers give away their power to the people, because that's what it takes if we wanted Bitcoin not to be regulated or banned. Not gonna happen. Even if it will, it won't take too long before someone else takes the lead. If politics fall, mainstream media may take the control handle because it already has a significant influence over people's behavior and thoughts. Decentralize everything and just wait until someone calls out "the significant increase in crimes". The average person would listen to that rather than supporting a digital currency they don't even understand.

The world's largest powers will never let a decentralized currency take over their controlled fiat currency.. hence why CBDCs are gonna be a thing soon. The average person will more than likely jump straight into the CBDCs boat, which will obviously be so much easier to understand and use than cryptocurrencies. The digital Euro or USD will probably have a very fancy and intuitive UI as well.

Monero has faced a huge oppression from governments and online platforms. Yet, no rioting and no big voices complained about it. If the government found it's quite hard to monitor what happens through it, they decided to slowly cut the thread and let only non-private blockchains function the way they're supposed to function.

Well, here you just express your hate against the system we're living in. I hate it as well, it's a common point of ours, but it isn't really what we were talking about. I know politics are pretty much a scam, so is the fiat system, yet we realistically cannot have a decentralized governance. Even if Bitcoin has made open-source and decentralization more prominent, governments are still implanting backdoors everywhere. Even if the COVID tracking apps are supposedly anonymous, it's actually quite easy to find one's identity through them.

Having no governance would make this world a mess. If you're really thinking that one day this is gonna be a real thing, I hope you're not wrong but I don't think it could work out. The human nature wouldn't allow it.

It may be here, but are you 100% sure you'd still be able to use it in the event of a crypto ban in your country, without getting caught? It may put the financial power in the people's hands rather than the government's, but as I said, it cannot make a change alone. We would first need to decentralize everything. CBDCs are way closer to our reality than Bitcoin taking over the control handle.

Supporting Bitcoin doesn't mean pretending there aren't negative sides of it, nor does it mean that I have to truly support fairy tales. I'm just being realistic.

As far as I read, Samourai isn't the best privacy-enhancing tool (https://www.reddit.com/r/WasabiWallet/comments/c5l1ju/is_wasabi_better_than_samourai_wallets_new/es2urco/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) out there. And using CoinJoin/Whirlpooling/Mixer is useless if you do not study these things beforehand. You should take care of the resulting change (https://docs.wasabiwallet.io/using-wasabi/ChangeCoins.html#why-change-is-an-issue), you should take care of your fingerprints, of coin control and so on. The average person does not have the right education and knowledge to know all this, so in the end it's not being used the right way by the majority of people. That is why Bitcoin is still alive as a legal cryptocurrency.

No, CoinJoin does not make you anonymous by default.. nor does Monero. Back to the comparison you made between drugs and BTC, it's not as easy to achieve privacy with BTC as it is with drugs, the latter requiring pretty much just common sense.

Yet, it's still here years later. It still exists, and it's even more widespread than it used to be. Regulations are real, and skipping them is a legal risk.

Political system can't be dissolved at any situation because they want to dominate either however the situation is, if this happens just imagine how the world would be??

Let's keep it simple BTC is just a payment system it doesn't came to end anything, we should not make it too complicated and overthink on this. Let's focus on the advantage of this technology and move on.

Aren't we underestimating the current political groups right now? Sure, they're pretty outdated right now with how Bitcoin has taken the world and its advanced system and what not, but honestly, I expect them to actually adapt it. Though they may take some time, it is quite natural tbh, since they never really accept almost any innovation that isn't aligned with whatever they want, and Bitcoin being a decentralized system, is one of them.

Plus, from what I can see, humans actually need, in general, someone to lead them, whether it be a good or bad type of leadership. Most of us have that herd mentality after all.

count me in to the people that will switch on btc but dont count me in to the people that will agree that politics will end because of bitcoin .
 i cant think of reason why will that happen when btc is only a currency and politics is politics , and only the same system as politics can beat politics resulting for stopping them in the future .
politics can be more fairer and better if bitcoins technology blockchain co exist with it  but lets not forget the internet because without this the plan of improving politics wont be possible .

It is true that on the one hand, the presence of bitcoin has changed the current world system, but apart from the riots that will occur, of course this needs to be used as a material to anticipate the adoption of all regulations that will be imposed by the governments of each country. Moreover, if bitcoin becomes a system that will end politics in the world, then every country will try to prevent its citizens from owning bitcoin.

And then what?

Be careful what you wish for. With your description of the kind of future that you foresee, it looks to me a dystopian society. The end of a specific political system is one thing and the end of the entire polis itself is another. I'm afraid the one you have in mind is the latter. We are all losers if that day comes.

I guess we should avoid committing the mistake of thinking that Bitcoin is the be-all and end-all of all aspects of human existence. If politics die, Bitcoin cannot bring it back. If economy dies, Bitcoin cannot revive it. If peace and order are gone, Bitcoin cannot restore them. And so on and so forth.

I think everyone can voice out their opinion or predicting something. But the truth is no one knows exactly what will happen next, thats why a prediction was still a prediction no matter what the outcome, In that point of view I will base my opinion, And I believe it will not happen in 2025.

Because the political system is a complex function and many things are involved and should be considered, But to end that present political system with Bitcoin? I think you must be dreaming.
I believe that Bitcoin gives us a picture of a decentralized entity that can be used as an alternative fiat, But I dont believe that it can end a political system.