Bitcoin Forum

Hi,

Well, Bitcoin has gained a bit more status, the IRS considers it like trading in property. 

CNN:  "The Internal Revenue Service has issued a formal notice saying it can tax Bitcoin transactions, calling it a property -- not a currency."
<http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/25/technology/innovation/irs-bitcoin/index.html?iid=HP_LN>

IRS Notice 2014-21:  <http://i.cdn.turner.com/money/2014/images/03/25/IRS_Notice_2014_21.pdf?iid=EL>

cya,

So will Charlie Shrem be fine then? He sold property, much like a realtor.

Same with the Florida guys

US Bureaucrats are a hoot ...

So Charlie Shrem wasn't money laundering he was property laundering?    ???
Yes, US Bureaucrats are a hoot and more.

God i hate my mother for bringing me to this NWO USA land, its the heaviest tax on its slaves by far

Any Tax Lawyers on here that sees this please give me a call..... i have 6 digit/year income from online gambling and now some BTC exposure.

The IRS definitely wants to go after me imo even though ive had a professional tax preparer since 2006....

Seriously i wish i wasnt a USA citizen ......... this is so ridiculous and an infringement upon our freedom, too bad the rest of the dumb ass USA herd dont even know what is about to happen to them/their value bits

Wow this is ridiculous.  Now I guess people on localbitcoins, etc. will have to record every single cost basis and sale they've made?  What if they mined coins and then sold them?  I guess they'd want to put their expenses incurred while mining in the cost basis.

Fuck paying taxes on my BTC transactions.

The IRS is a piece of shit, fully non-Constitutional, run from the UK/Zio everlasting debt cadre of lawyers, the scum of the Earth.  The 16th Amendment should be destroyed forever, along with the Non-American Internal Revenue Service and the BAR association, which should be broken up and its members made to spend the rest of their lives in labor camps doing real work like digging.

But I think them had to start with at least something.. Maybe big investors are smelling bug money and they started to lobby legalization of bitcoin. It is better than been accused of money laundering or something like that. I think they will loose the requirement to pay capital gain taxes on day-to-day purchases as well as taxing amateur miners. We'll see.

Thanks to Mtgox,many people lost bitcoins,that is why IRS are trying to find ways to tax it,and government to control it,but from talking to actually doing it is a long way.I don't think IRS will find the legal way to tax it..........but lets see.

They always want to tax everything to squeeze the money from us like water from the sponge.
So in opposition to tax everything -> we should DECENTRALIZE EVERYTHING!

We already have some good ideas existing and developing like:

- cryptocoins of course

- Namecoin with its decentralized domain names (.bit)

- http://twister.net.co/ fully decentralized P2P microblogging platform

- BitTorrent is working on decentralized web browser - BitTorrent Sync/SyncNet can view it peer-to-peer without the need to access a traditional server-based website.
  http://torrentfreak.com/bittorrent-sync-used-to-create-decentralized-web-browser-140204/


And probably few more I didn't remember right now or don't even know about.

I wish we had a fully developed, mass adoption ready, decentralized e-mail replacement. Bitmessage is a nice idea, but I don't think it will scale gracefully and nobody seems to care about I2P Bote.

I'm sure many interesting ideas like this are on the way.

No one except people who are trying to run publicly-seen legitimate businesses that accept btc will be affected by this. Obv, no one else will bother reporting their day-to-day bitcoin trades.

They're hurting the one group we want to grow. If anything, this will just push trading btc for goods back down to the black market.

They will find out that it is impossible to tax bitcoin since it can be moved to oversea before cashing out

Then people will find out another great property of bitcoin --- immune of taxation

Rally ...

So does that mean trading bitcoin will be like trading stock? I wonder when it'll take effect.

I don't see the IRS being able to pull this off. I don't see it being very workable with the daily fluctuations in price & all the other cryptocurrencies out there. They'll probably go after a handful of people just to make examples of them. It'll be like the whole file-sharing fiasco. If anything, it will probably kill off a lot of the smaller alt-coins, which is unfortunate.
Also... how would one claim black market purchases? It's impossible!

Of course they want to tax it. They are greedy and want more money.

It might hurt growth with smaller companies who cannot afford the hassle.
Large companies can afford the cost of figuring out how much taxes to pay.

Yes but even large companies will lose a percent of their consumer pool that don't want to risk a loss on the transaction. It's still easy as hell to get the good/services you want illegitimately with btc.

Ofcourse, who this whole thing really fucks is miners. Especially considering it's becoming less and less profitable as is. 

If I make all my coin clients operate through tor could the IRS still catch me? I don't cash it out to USD, I make online purchases either in BTC or using gift cards from gyft.com...
I'm worried that the money grubbing IRS is going to come after me for my bitshekels.

Well that could also lead to taxing other currency we have, ups properties. Like credits in games like EVO, SWTOR, gold in WoW and such, considering it can be sold, bought, traded for something else...

The only things I know have escaped taxation is frequent flyer points, and solar power; don't know why.

E-mail is decentralised, always has been. Use PGP to make it private too.

So they should start taxing linden dollar as well and virtual property taxes within second life.

Isn't it possible to have a different or new political party?  Aren't there more than just the two "dominant" ones?  Aren't they dominant mostly due to money?

Why not create a political party, and for the lack of a good name, you call it the peoples party.

With the power of bitcoin it should be easy to fund this.  Don't just cater to bitcoin, cater to the people. Help fund or solve real issues within the USA.  I think the $$ is there, but I'm not al that into politics.  I know id vote reps of said party.  Infact, I would actually and finally register.  Can we start a group on this?  If that were so can I be a part of it?  I don't want any gains just the opinion of an average hard working citizen.

Perhaps this is impossible, but I wouldn't really know.

I do know (or feel) that there are a lot of countries who are seemingly keeping "silent" over a lot of matters due to the u.s. govt strong arm.  There are a lot of reasons for this (none are really just IMO) but this party could gain support from the countries who are keeping quiet without complaints but are actually displeased with said notion.


Any constructive thoughts? Is this type of action suicide? Like I said I'm not very political just an average joe so i apologize if this is dumb

They don't tax gold miners on every flake of gold they find at the moment it was found. They are going to have one HELL OF A TIME calculating in audit the exact value every single satoshi mined at the moment it was mined. Now placing a taxable value on the first transaction in which a miner transfers coin to his own wallet off the mining pool or exchanges it thru something like Coinbase is doable and utilizes a finite time that an actual verifiable $ value can be placed on the BTC.

yep ..too cumbersome i have some hope this will get 'fixed' but if you wanted finance and gov't to kill bitcoin by muddying the waters i can't
think of a better way to do this then what the IRS announced the other day

me just sitting on BTC till prob end of summer with hearings etc assuming logic prevails it will take at least that long to fix this imho even if the fix
is just a 20% capital gains tax on the value of the alt coin the day you sell it is the solution....crap end of august is more likely and that is IF they
come to their senses on BTC..now if they just want to kill bitcoin .they made a pretty good start with the USA IRS announcement imho

Searing

Depend on the country but im not worried. Until i will sell my BTC im safe from taxes :) and this will not happen soon.

if you mine in the USA now according to the IRS what you mine in a day is 'gross income" like a job 25% lets say and when you sell the
coin it is 20% capital gains tax if you keep it at least 1 year if under a year it is like 43 percent..it applies to ALL THE BITCOIN YOU'VE
EVER MADE ....so a coin in 2009 at 2c if you bought a tv for 600 bucks now you would owe capital gains on 599.98 usd

hard to trade as a currency if 1 BTC is different then another BTC for miners

unenforceable ..but if you we're a merchant would you take BTC in the USA with this cluste*fu*ck of a setup
likely it will get changed to something like 20% capital gains tax if you sell the coin

but why would anyone mine in the USA now?

so if fixed it will take into summer imho to get this tweaked more reasonably so it can be used as a currency imho

also this just pop'd up looks like china really is gonna ban BTC exchanges etc from Banks in China

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/03/28/bitcoin_china_pboc_ban/

this don't help much ether projected difficulty 8 some days out

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty

this is not good

Searing

Here's one person was trying to out-bureaucratize the IRS. Not the best idea really

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/21j893/irs_protest/

It's really good news,It means it's legal now