Bitcoin Forum

Hey guys I am new here....just purchased my first coins today. I want to know what everyone else thinks will happen to Bitcoin when the dollar falls off?....will people holding Bitcoins suddenly become "millionaires"? and smaller transactions will be made in mBTC or litecoin?  Also can someone help me understand why the price of a Bitcoin is valued at the price it is today? What effects this price and so on? 

just look at cyprus last spring, when cyprus gave certain accounts a large hair cut against their will

people rushed into bitcoin, pushing the price up

some people kept their holdings in bitcoin because they will never trust their government/banks with their savings again

IMO - if (IF) dollar will EVER collapse - bitcoin will be worth "a lot" ... but there is enough place for $$ and BTC

If any decent fiat will crash, I'm sure the price of gold etc. ánd Bitcoin (and even many altcoins) will increase!

You've got to find somehow 1 way to pay each other, and e-currency might be the solution.

When the USD collapses...?
The USD is already down ~97% in ~100 years.
How much lower does it need to go before we say it already collapsed?

All fiat currencies eventually became worthless, and so will the US dollar one day. Yet I defer to the inimitable J.M. Keynes, The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.

Don't be surprised if the USD collapse takes far longer to happen than you think, for the destruction of debt and monetary deflation, not inflation, often precedes hyperinflationary and hyperdeflationary currency events; hence why the Federal Reserve is so keen on maintaining inflation and only inflation, and the mechanisms by which debt may be destroyed or purged are purposefully protracted and open-ended. One could even make a cogent argument that, despite their ostensible mandate, the Fed has been successful at slowly, decade by decade, collapsing the USD on purpose.

(I'm no Keynesian, by the way, but his work is certainly worth studying, if for no other reason than Keynes is more reasonable and perceptive than nearly all the parrots who worship him.)

To your question, what will happen to bitcoin when the USD collapses? Depends at which point during the collapse one considers the exchange rate, if the collapse is total, and if the collapse is controlled. If it's a total, uncontrolled collapse, then infinite dollars wouldn't even buy a single satoshi. If the collapse is controlled and mitigated to allow for a new currency to take the place of the USD, then the price of BTC would somewhat depend upon whether they whom the collapse is controlled by are keen on bitcoin. Perhaps an initial panic depreciation in price followed by swift appreciation.

All else being equal, supply and demand, your momma, etc......

This is very true. We knew years that the U.S. and the E.U. have unsustainable monetary policies. But yet the years pass by without any really devastating crash. For the U.S. dollar to crash, it has to crash relatively to something better, and it doesn't seem like any other big fiat currency is going to apply for that task. May it be gold, Bitcoin or certificates to cultivate land for all we know, but the USD need to get quite a bit worse before we need to go back to self-sufficient farming.

I think a crash might hurt the Bitcoin value in the short run. It would need to be videly accepted to actually benefit from a USD collapse.

In a scenario where dollar collapses to zero you would benefit more from owning a gun, ammo & food than bitcoins.

Wisest comment in thread.

That's for sure. Are you a prepper? ^^

I think that's true if all fiat crashes. If it's 'just' the USD, then the people might use other fiat. If all fiat crashes, we're doomed. Move to the nearest farm and be sure you've got enough guns & ammo. And some protecting gear. Maybe landmines will be usefull then.

I hope we won't experience such situation ever.

world would be over and we would be fighting eachother for whatevers left. there will be no internet for bitcoins lol. get your guns and ammo and take cover in a shelter.

yes, send some of bitcoins FUD to the USD instead.

If dollar collapse people would use a more stable currency.   But thats not bitcoin.

Why would dollar collapse?   Only if something big happened.   Its not gonna collapse because of debt

it would have to be a major disaster or the end of the world. and then people would be using food and guns and gold as currency tog et what they want

There is no scenario where only the USD collapses.  I don't understand why people (not you) think the dollar can collapse and everything will go on in an orderly fashion.  A collapse of the dollar would have systemic impacts that would damage the entire global economy. 

If the USD collapses to zero real value, and if bitcoin retains finite real value, then the price of bitcoin measured in dollars would go to infinity.  

If you mined a coin at this time, you would owe infinity dollars to the IRS.  

 :D

Exactly, It's a bigger issue if USD collapses than other currencies, that's because most of the worlds international trades are settled in USD.

USD could collapse in one of these scenarios:
-Oil producing countries refuses to sell oil in USD
-Political instability, civil war or revolution in USA
-World war where USA is affected
-Black swan events that are impossible to predict or speculate about

You know, I used to wonder why fiat currencies like the dollar and euro hadn't already collapsed given their obvious mismanagement/inflation and the horrid trajectory that welfare (and military) spending was clearly taking. I came to the conclusion that the chief reason the collapse had not already happened was simply that the major alternatives to the yen, euro and dollar were each other. They were all being mismanaged to roughly the same degree, giving people who wanted a way out of the rotten system little alternative. I mean, you could buy lumps of shiny yellow rocks and hide them in your mattress, but that was just not practical.

Along comes bitcoin. Now there IS an alternative. And I think that ironically when we hit critical mass with bitcoin, it will trigger just such a seismic collapse. As people begin to shift funds to bitcoin on a large enough scale to start to noticeably deflate fiat currency, it will become a vicious cycle as people rush into altcoins to avoid being the last person holding worthless fiat. That's why I've been annoying all my friends/family on facebook saying "Look, you need to start learning about this NOW!" Because I really do think this is coming, and the banks and government can't really stop it.

A sudden and severe blockage in global trade due to the lack of sound money in a "dollar collapse" scenario would damage the supply chains that provide the constant flow of energy and goods into the world's major cities.  Without sufficient energy and goods, society in heavily-populated areas would break down.  

In a dollar-collapse scenario, gold is too slow to facilitate global trade if it has to move and requires too much trust to facilitate global trade if it doesn't.

To permit a quick transition away from debt-burdened fiat currency without a breakdown of order in the cities, there would need to be a robust proven alternative in place at the time of collapse.  Political institutions like the IMF will not be trusted, as power structures will be fragmenting.  One would need some sort of trustless money, sort of like gold, but with the ability to quickly send it across the world in order to keep the vital trade lines moving.  It would be helpful if this money already had a sufficiently broad user base so the most communities had members familiar with how it worked, and a sufficiently established billion-dollar network of globally-connected hardware that would stand up to turmoil during the transition.  

With something like that, the transition away from fiat currencies could seem anticlimactic in hindsight.  

depends on how damaged the energy supply chain becomes

I hereby pronounce this wisdom to be irrefutable.

As the dollar is massively devalued to tackle the lunatic debt bubble, Bitcoin will increase in value astronomically. An actual full-scale collapse would likely result in a Walking Dead style apocalypse....but possibly without the zombies.

If dollar collapse there will be massive chaos. Riots and looting everywhere, I think martial law would be inforce. There will be massive blackouts, food and water would be ration until the military cannot control the people. Internet would be gone in most places. Bitcoin price would rise in international trading but its very hard to trade. I think having a gun, gold and bitcoin is the best to have during this time.

Greetings all and my first post here  :)

So... If things really do crash why do we have go around shooting each other - wouldn't it make more sense to carry on working, probably without actual £/$ pay and start cooperating, for our own survival and ultimately prosperity, with Bitcoin?

It'd be the last thing the 'authorities' would be expecting of us and would deny them the option to call in the troops to keep the peace.

We might take the opportunity to look at other options too
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13725277

Martin.

You sure know how to lose an argument. The US dollar has NOT already collapsed. 99.9% of people will tell you that. However, you seem to think it already has. And you prove it by a meaningless fact. I think you need to look at other facts that might be more relevant.

A building that is 97% collapsed is collapsed. Fiat currency that is 97% collapsed is, well, grossly inflated. You can stagger on with more and more 0's on the bills, but it's not a good situation.

What people need to keep in mind now (and my point earlier) is that fiat collapse CAN now happen without destroying the economy, unlike in the past. As cryptocurrency replaces fiat currency, the latter can and will fade away without a Zombie Apocalypse scenario.

It's not how much a Bitcoin is worth in USD or EUR, but how much work would you do for one (1 Bitcoin).

In the end all currency exchange (used as a verb) work for work. Web programming for electricity or food. Construct buildings for iPhones and books for kids. "Money" is a placeholder for "work".

It's a huge difference between 97% collapse in one year, or in 100 years (inflation rate of 3,5% per year). I don't see any problem with single digit inflation as it motivates people to engage in investments and consumption instead of hoarding.

If you have $10,000 and you know it will lose 3,5% of it's value within a year you should invest it in an asset that will increase at least 3,5% in value per year.
That would probably be blue chips stocks as they provide both value increase and dividend.

The fallout from such a scenario would destroy infrastructure, leaving most places without consistent access to internet.  In times like these, the last thing people will be thinking about is Bitcoin or any digital currency.  People will be looking at tangible items like food, water, shelter, cloths, gold, etc. as tradable commodities. It's about survival, not speculation.

The smart Bitcoin holders would be trading out of digital currencies as fast as possible for tangible, real world survival items.  Bitcoin would collapse right along with the dollar.  What digital currencies should be pushing for, is a smooth transition from fiat to digital currency.  That way fiat can just fade away and digital currencies will be the new norm, without the need for such an apocalyptic situation, that will be bad for everything and everyone.

All that said, I don't think we have any immediate fear of such a thing happening and digital currencies are going to be able to really get things right, with plenty of time to spare, to offer the world a better form of money.  Immediate dollar collapse paranoia is really just that, paranoia.

Any supplies needed for surviving actually.

Well we will be at war with Russia any day now....and Syria with Turkey....Israel with Iran....South Korea and North Korea....its all building up to the explosion point any day now. Just watch. Fuck CNN btw.  You all should be watching Vice News.

https://www.youtube.com/user/vicenews/videos

IF? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQdmsL147j0) (click me)

OP was right to use the word, "when".

No empire lasts forever.

It could last forever, but this one is nearing its collapse each year.

Lol 97% down in 100 year? Do your math again mate. It's much, much more then 97% in 100 year. ;)

Or probably i understand you wrong, and you mean lost 97% of it's worth within the last 100 year, then you are right.

It's much more than a direct effect if something like the USD collapses.  It's not like if X happens then the outcome will be Y.  The shadow banking system dwarfs the regular banking system, and derivatives like interest rate swaps, credit default swaps, etc., will bring the whole world crashing down.  It's not a linear thing that can be tracked or predicted, it's a giant spiderweb of mess that you really cannot untangle in an orderly fashion.  Look at what happened when Bear Stearns went under and they were nothing in the grand scheme of things. 

Bitcoin has its purpose in the future of money and the storage of wealth but the tinfoil hat apocalypse/SHTF people need to stop because as some have mentioned, you're better off with guns, food and a bunker if the US collapses.  I don't care where you live.

Everytime some fools decides to call the current powers 'empires'.....it's good for a laugh :)

The reason current structures are more resilient and adaptable is PRECISELY BECAUSE it rules out absolute imperial tendencies (so called 'imperialism' is nothing but a fabrication and myth hyped up by those seeking to create a scapegoat - they wouldn't know a real authoritarian oppression if it was fucking them in the ass, but would rather be sucking its cock instead). Relatively minor 'faults' are nothing compared to the actual sins of those who themselves constantly bitch and moan about 'imperialism' yet oppress their own people and each other with equal degree of criminal behavior.


USD may rise and slump, but rest of the world has a better chance of going up in flames with economic depressions before that happens. If you try to take yourself off of USD, you will find out just exactly how much your prosperity and standards of living were dependent upon it's role in the world. USD or the US Government doesn't need to actively fuck over somebody - they do a fine job of doing that on their own.

Btw rest of the world owes 0.89 dollars for ever 1 dollar US owes to the world. Let that sink in a bit, and also consider the fact that US interest rates paid to others is far less % than others pay to US thanks to relative innate strength and stability of US economy and government.