Bitcoin Forum

The main currencies like usd eur gbp cad ......
Who payed for that ? With their devalue of money and fall of living standard ?

Venezuela, nigeria,zimbawe , russia...and other high inflation countries
If you from venezuela kind of country you shouldt not cheering happy when you see money printer goes brrrr....
And if btc goes up then you know its stealing from your pocket

No one's paid for it. What you're getting at essentially is deficit spending by governments. It's relatively new that the fed prints money to support deficit spending, but it's "paid" when the money is paid back; that is paid back from future surpluses (assuming you ever run a surplus, which the US in particular is horrible at doing).

I think in most high inflation countries like Venezuela or Turkey, foreign currencies are very attractive. I saw in an documentary about Venezuela that most shops and stores don't even accept the local currencies anymore. Most of the trade is done based on USD. For crypto currencies owner that is pretty good in my opinion, the more you can do in USD the higher your profit if you sell your coins.

I am from Venezuela I live in a country with hyperinflation. In my country no more paper money has been printed. In fact, there is a shortage of paper money in my country, the bolivar.

We can manage the economy with the little existing circulating money, bolívar, US dollars, electronic transfers, payments for points of sale and most recently some businesses that are accepting crypto as a means of payment in the main cities of the country.

It is difficult and the most vulnerable people are the most affected by such a situation.

Man, I didn't understand a word of what you wrote, but that's likely my ignorance more so than the quality of your explanation. 

But the plain fact as I see it is that governments are creating and giving away money like it's going out of style, and I don't see how in hell that can't eventually NOT lead to inflation.  I'm thinking this is the reason why companies like MicroStrategy and others have decided to fill their cash reserve coffers not with fiat, but with bitcoin.  They see a massive devaluation of fiat currency looming and are being very proactive about it--and they're protecting themselves from it.

That all assumes that bitcoin doesn't implode like 2014/2017, but I think if we did start to see crazy inflation in Europe, the US, Canada, and some of the bigger countries bitcoin would perform very nicely. 

As to who's paying for all of this?  I've been saying that the can has been kicked down the road so far that it's going to be our kids and grandkids who are going to foot the bill for all this insanity.  I'm hoping Joe Biden can appraise the situation rationally and come up with a plan that doesn't bankrupt the US.

Who's ABOUT to pay for that, is probably the better term. The current government could go under debt under the name of whatever legal agreements they say but in the end, a debt would most likely be paid by the future generations of the government and going by that, future generations, literally everyone in the future. Probably why governments have no qualms doing so, since hey, they're not the ones going to be affected.
I mean, who would right? Probably people who don't know jack about economics, but they wouldn't really be cheering per se since they're ignorant about it. I don't really know how BTC going up steals from their pockets, but I do know that Bitcoin is a place a lot better to store their money rather than let it sit in their local currency.

Btc going up when usd goes down
So btc goes up when usd inflation goes higher and higher..
Usa dollar is reserve currenchy..
Before you get everything from those countries you need usa dollars
Usd reserve currency is the middle currency you want oil but you cant get it directly from oil country you meed usa dollars to buy oil and usa dollar value is higher then local poor country currency so its stealing value

I don’t think that it works in that way really. Those countries you listed are under developed or either in the developing stage. Meaning they are not having proper infrastructure of businesses, plenty jobs or industrialisation which can keep the countries money in flow and out flow. The last two ones are very very important for any nation to grow globally and reduce the inflation. That’s why countries like USA and UK did in the first place. They started serving the country and global requirements from all the available resources they had. They need to print the money because they are using it at that level itself. If not then there is no other explanation for that as well.

So in "normal times" when the US runs a deficit, it's paid for by borrowing money from people who have saved. They issue bonds, the savers buy them because they're considered the safest investment on the planet (the US has never defaulted on the debt). They don't pay very much at all, but it's long been regarded to be the safest place to park large amounts of money for a long time and earn a little return with "zero risk."  

We haven't had normal times since the housing crisis in 2007/2008.  At that time, through the radical process known as quantitative easing, the fed was printing money to buy assets directly from troubled banks to prevent systemic collapse.  It largely pulled us through the the Great Recession.  But now, the Fed has started printing money to buy government debt directly, another new radical change from the Fed's historical role in the economy.  It's necessary because there aren't enough savers to finance the US debt, so interest rates would have to rise dramatically to get people to move into government bonds, which would be bad for the economy. So to keep interest rates at 0%, the fed finances the debt the government issues.  That's the explanation about what's going on.

Two things I want to point out:  1) The dramatic money creation during the the Great Recession did not lead to inflation despite all the warnings it would.  Those same people are largely the ones warning about inflation again, which again so far has not happened. Whether it will remains to be seen. (Please god no though!)  2) The notion that "our kids are going to pay for this debt" has been said for generations but it's never been the case.  The US has had a chronically unbalanced budget for the vast, vast majority of its history.  The debt wracked up in the 1940s wasn't paid down by that generation's children, the debt from the 1960s wasn't paid off by that generation's children, not the 1980's, and so on.  No kids have ever footed the bill for past generation's excesses.  Logically, I would say this can't continue forever.  And yet it's been true indefinitely, and because every generation wants their prosperity too unmuted by paying off past debts, every generation elects to continue kicking the can down the road.  

Personally, I don't see any generation with the willingness to tackle the debt problem. Trump added 8 trillion in debt in only 4 years, an unprecedented acceleration that blows the debt added during the Great Recession out of the water.  I think it's more likely the can gets kicked down the road until the dollar collapses.  That's why I see bitcoin gaining so much attention now.  But I hope I'm wrong, truly, because nobody wants to live in the world where the dollar has collapsed.  There will be widespread economic, social, and political upheaval, and bitcoin will not save society and the people who own bitcoin will be better off than average, but not better off than they are now because everything will be so much worse for everyone who lives in that world.  That's why I view these people wishing for the dollar collapse because they've got bitcoin and think they're going to be the new rich class as idiots.  They don't know the pain they're wishing for.

Great Point. This was a so-called necessity because these banks were deemed "Too big to fail". So Govt bought up all their shitty debt and sunk projects.

This part is a little hard to understand. The way you put it, it seems like a Catch-22 situation. The US economy and the tendency of people to live in debt in the form of mortgages, student loans etc. results in a situation where everyone owes the banks. Combine that with unemployment and radical restructuring of job opportunities, more of those people are unable to repay. This makes it necessary that the Govt put money directly in the hands of the population.

This brings an even more serious point. Despite having such deep internal imbalances, the US economy has continued to thrive. While a lot can be said about it happening because of the enterprising capability and innovation of US entrepreneurs, it cannot be denied that a lot of that has happened at the cost of other parts of the world. Just look at the middle-east. The US interventions have served two motives. It ensured that energy superiority was maintained and the US consumer had easy and cheap access to petroleum and petroleum based products. Second, it ensured that the huge millitary-industrial complex continued to have a market in the form of oil wealthy countries like UAE, Saudi buying up US arms to defend against the "threats" of Iraq, Lebanon or whoever the US chooses to mark so (Remember Axis of Evil??)
 
Continuing from that previous geo-political statement, I think what bitcoin proponents mean is that the combined effect of these years of mismanagement, greed and kicking can down the road will come back to haunt in the form of USD losing its dominance in the world. With China's rise and its insistence on economic dominance, this may happen sooner than later. So cryptocurrencies and Bitcoin are just one part of a general decline in US dominance and de-coupling of US prosperity from the rest of the world.

Thanks for the great points.

The countries that you have listed all have a people that do not have a faith in their government, that is the reason that they can't afford an inflation and money printing because one mistake could cause a lot for their instability, look at Venezuela right now. Any government can print as much money as they can as long as the people have faith. USA is a different case, they are a reserved currency for most countries so money printing is not that big of an issue for them because there are bankers and financial institutions that are ready to sprung into action in the case of an economic downturn.

All countries are printing money, they are all affected. The more money printed by a trading partner, they all will compete in printing more money just to diminish debts to each other. It's no wonder BTC keeps moving up for all we know their governments are also buying BTC.

When they say the economy is about to be reset, I'm about to believe it and there might just be powerful countries that will be displaced because of the economic power.

depends, if trump is a pedo and betray too his oath to the constitution,or if it's the coup plotters, who knows, the second independence war would have begun the 6th january 2021... so fasten your seat belt(s), and be ready for war...

On any currency in all over the world, money printing is just like increasing the total supply and by increasing the total supply people will trust the currency less and the by decreasing the the trust between people they won't hold this currency for long time and this will make the demand to decrease. This will demand decreasing and total supply increasing will make the currency totally worthless. That's what happening in Venezuela and the other countries like that. So, people will need to invest on their money on something like gold and bitcoin and do not hold the fiat currency.   

AFAIK, there could be another $3T that will be injected on Biden's term. And I don't know if it's just the first batch on his term and there will be another series of it soon.
And with inflation, we really are likely to see bitcoin $100k - $1M if the printing continues.

Federal reserve is serial money printer

They have to print money as aid for their citizens in the fight against the pandemic. But it's expected to bring inflation, higher inflation with trillions of money that have printed.
And we'll see it affect bitcoin to increase in price.

One way or another, inflation is felt very strongly by ordinary people, especially those who have lost their jobs and possibly other sources of income. Based on this, the purchasing power of people has decreased compared to the period before the pandemic. But since the value of national currencies decreases, this gives more chances for the development of the cryptocurrency market, through attracting new users and new investments. I personally know those people who tried to invest in Bitcoin and Ethereum by withdrawing possible funds from bank accounts.

That's what really will happen if inflation hits a country. The purchasing power of a normal citizen will become lower and it's become harder because too many jobs were lost and many have been dependent on the government which made them print as much money as they can.
This is not just for the US but also for other countries that did it. It's the US that's getting the attention of the printing of money but there are also other countries that did it.

In fact, the situation is not very clear, because it is not known how many jobs will be lost, and in extreme cases lives, if the government does not print the right amount of money, and you yourself should understand that with partial and full lockdowns and increased health care costs, there is no hope for ordinary sources of income in the form of taxes. At the moment, this seems to be the best solution to the problems, but of course it can be painful to return later in the form of increased inflation.

We've been into lockdown and too many jobs were frozen and some companies can't cover the expenses through rents and they can't really operate anymore.
It doesn't matter how many jobs were lost but in fact, they're really a lot. People wouldn't complain and if they hadn't lost anything. But the good thing that there are still those affected people that find a way through doing hustle instead of complaining and depending on the printed money for the aid by the government.

Don't get it, are you just trolling or what. Why the herk will anyone think the rise of bitcoin price related to money lost. Green signify profits while Red is the he opposite and the stealing only happens when the fud are been circulated in the community to create fud among her members and probably leads to a dumping reaction then the whales steps in to buy the dip and accumulate as many Bitcoin as possible to later resell when the market conditions become favorable.

In think isn't no longer a news that the traditional banking system (fiats) has failed. It's no hidden fact that nobody pays for the printing and we all know the fiats has no real backing too but we all play along since that's what we're been told by the government that the papers in our hands has value.

How the hell can Bitcoin steal from the poor,since the poor don't buy and own Bitcoins?
This doesn't make any sense.
Inflation makes all the poor people even more broke and poor,but this has nothing to do with Bitcoin.
It has something to do with the corrupt governments,that are making huge budget deficits and huge national debts.
The middle class and the working class are "paying" for inflation and money devaluation,but Bitcoin has nothing to do with this.You are basically just trolling.

I agree with you, it's very unlikely that the poor people even can afford any bitcoins. A friend of mine is very poor and he has no saving at all, he uses all the money from his checking account per month and even goes into overdraft. He actually could save money if he would stop spending so much, but he just can't control himself. Unfortunately he spends more than 200 USD per month and gaming and artificats in one game which is complete useless. I tried to tell him to stop and save some money but he isn't lisenting.

it is true, there is a mistake here, bitcoin stands never to force anyone to invest in it. in some cases bitcoin cannot be attributed to either being poor or being rich. regardless of how the country is. because the one who must be fully responsible is the government. they deliberately make fun of them because they are middle and upper class. it cannot be said that for any reason, bitcoin has nothing to do with one status of poverty.