Bitcoin Forum

As noted by the OMFIF report the main activities to pursue a large-scale CBDC, closely followed by the answer, lie in improving speed and cost effectiveness. It can also help overcome existing system limitations, especially in terms of system security and resilience. A large scale CBDC can reduce operational risks and operating costs due to capacity building as multiple major assets become tokenized and recorded on scatter boards.

I wonder if a lot of people are interested in it here? But now I am seeing a lot of the central banks of the countries announcing that they will develop CBDC in the near future. Now, personally, I think the leader in this field is China, could this be another race on the cypto front between the USA and China.

Show me your view on a possible upcoming trend.....

There are this topic related threads, CBDC will just be a new era means governments will deprive people of privacy because non will be a privacy coin, they will all be centralized fiat-pegged digital currencies that is controlled by the governments which can even likely be less private than the non-private fiats which will result to privacy completely lost in the world for people that will make use of the CBDC. But, it will be an effective means if collecting taxes from CBDC users and a way fiat is introduced into digital form in another means.

The forum members keep discussing CBDC for more than 2 years and yet there's not a single CBDC launched in the past months.CBDC will remain as a concept/idea/theory,if you ask me.
It is more worth discussing CBDC after at least one central bank digital currency gets introduced to the world.
This topic is similar to the quantum computer discussion.Every now and then I see forum members posting questions about "What will happen to the blockchain,after quantum computers become a thing?".
We can play mind games and fantasize about the future,but there aren't any CBDCs or quantum computers coming anytime soon.

The reason that it will stay that way is because the government does not put any effort into making it an effective means for the people to use. China did introduce a CBDC in their country but it became a flop because people did not see the benefit of using it and the government did not care to do so. Quantum computers are a thing now, they are already developed and the only problem is that they are mostly used for experimental levels and a commercial use is still far from ever happening.

@Aletheaminlin

Central banks are thinking about their own digital currency and on another side, there are a couple of governments thinking too to make their own digital currency. Imagine in the future, we will have for example EUR as we know it, the digital version of EUR, and a national version (let's call it a countrycoin). I can't imagine people able to use 3 different currencies but it remembers me of a post here from Hal Finey who told we will probably have different layers of digital currencies. The ones used by banks, the ones used by people (Bitcoin héhé), and the ones used by, why not central banks or INTL companies.

Nowadays his post makes sense to me. We are at the very beginning but in a decade from now I won't be surprised if the things happen as he was describing.

@Charles-Tim

CBDC will be controlled by central banks not the governments, hence the name Central Bank Digital Currency.
The goal is not to erase privacy, if people have a problem with it then they shouldn't use their bank card, chéque, bank transfer, and the whole banking system. In this case then only banknotes matter.
So the privacy regarding CBDC is a non-existing problem or rather I should say irrelevant.

Pegged to a national currency, yes, what's the problem? There are a few stable coins pegged to USD, yet there are millions of people using it
The tax excuse is an irrelevant problem too. Cryptocurrencies are also taxed, so what? Imagine Bitcoin is accepted everywhere, do you think for example you will avoid the VAT? Nope

@davis196

It does not happen overnight, it can easily take 5 years or more. It took 2 decades to launch the euro.

In my country, the central bank governor is not contested for, it is not by vote, the president put the CBN governor on the seat, which means they are controlled by the governments not the banks because the governments controls the central bank while the central bank control all other banks under the country.

Agreed. But, it can not be as private as decentralized cryptocurrencies like bitcoin because I have my private key. The goal is not to erase privacy but the process will lead to privacy deprivation which can later erase privacy.

Governments use taxes for relevant national budgets that can result more to national development, I did not comment against it. After commenting how the coin could result to privacy deprivation, then I commented about how it can be an effective means of collecting taxes.

China has gone the furthest in that direction, and they have already done quite large tests with the local population on several occasions - from everything I have read the tests have been successful and there is great interest from Chinese citizens in this type of payment.


I don't know if there is another country in this stage of development when it comes to the CBDC, but it seems that China could very easily be the first to launch something like this at the national level. We should not be surprised that this is happening, everything is going in the direction of digitalization and the time of money as we know it will undoubtedly come to an end. It is known that in Sweden about 98% of all payments are made digitally without cash, so cards that are already a generally accepted substitute for cash will be replaced with CBDC applications in our smartphones.

A figure has long emerged that about 80 percent of all states intend to issue or are taking steps to issue their national digitized central bank currencies. This is very beneficial for states, therefore, in a decade, almost all states will have their own stable coins of central banks.
For people, their use will also be beneficial, since the speed, efficiency and convenience of using them will increase significantly.
As for confidentiality, it will be at the level of bank cards. People use them despite the fact that banks, and therefore governments, completely have their confidential data.

L3 digital assets ?
I see them as having been discussing this issue very actively over the years. According to the CEO of a company developing on the above field.
link: https://twitter.com/skyguoCypherium/status/1353878334321680384

Well CBDC will be the inevitable trend, I don't know if you've heard of them being actively promoting it this year, the current amount of money is being traded mainly by banks, so I think we need more knowledge and information in this area.

I once thought CBDC is a good thing for us coin holders, but a second thought came to me. I hate losing privacy or being supervised by others, esp. by the government!

China will lead the future of cbdc and currency competition. The Chinese government has prepared a plan to achieve it, while the US government has just escaped from the chaos and has to deal with COVID-19.

Obviously it is going to be done by those huge banks, but we are talking about a cryptocurrency that is based on the coin itself, so if CBDC does it without the coin it will fail big time, it needs to have the represented amount in coins as well. I believe it is going to take some more time, it is not going to be like "look we created a CBDC, why don't you invest some?" and done with it, there needs to be a lot of hard work and preparation that goes into it, and if it does go into it properly and they do a great one, it is going to get picked up by many investors.

I do not agree that it is "inevitable" that it will happen, as long as there is none that makes sense for the investor, investors will keep staying away from that idea, why would I want to invest into CBDC if I can simply buy bitcoin and hold that? It means they need to find a reason and why it is better to invest to it before it will get more mainstream.

IMO, CBDCs are attempts from the central bank to make payments and transfers more seamless, given that it will run in a single infrastructure that is digitally interconnected, same as the banking networks that we have right now, ensuring that payments and funds transfers from point A to point B is secure. The idea comes from cryptocurrencies obviously, though with elements of traditional banking embedded within the protocol. China already made significant tests and moves on furthering their CBDCs IIRC on several articles that I've read, though it's never a question of who gets the right formula first but rather who gets the right formula to make it work. The Chinese citizens might want it given how 'easy' it is to use them on paper, though there are still a significant portion of the population whom will be left out if CBDCs are implemented in a hurry. Same goes to all countries that are going R&D on the use of CBDCs.

CBDC will be stable coins. They will end Tether FUD, or maybe will just expand it since no one will trust governments. CBDC will somehow not be enough decentralised to matter. So not decentralised stable coin. Is this something that will be able to compete with Bitcoin and Monero?

They won't really be comparable.  I still think CBDCs won't even resemble a cryptocurrency in the sense we're accustomed to.  The infrastructure will be entirely different and I'm fairly certain they won't appeal to the same audience as crypto does.

People often give me the impression they think a CBDC will be something they can send to an exchange and use it to trade with like they do other coins.  I don't personally see that happening.  My suspicion is we'll see the shortcomings of a total lack of censorship resistance right away, when people discover their bank won't allow them to send payments to an exchange using such a platform. 

Advocates claim that because of the way CBDCs are structured under the hood, they could lead to lower costs for transferring money. The idea is that with a CBDC, financial entities are more connected, making a smoother way to move money around than the disjointed financial system that's in place today. The perimeters of central banks are gradually starting to be crossed by the rise of crypto-assets. Especially since the new COVID-19 crisis offers an opportunity for Fintechs to impose themselves given the containment measures and social distancing. The question is asked for central banks, on the adoption of a digital currency for central banks, in order to centralize the system and ensure the safeguard of money for public confidence.

If they can offer benefits to regular bank users, why not?
We have been aiming for the lower fees a long time already, especially cross-border transfer payments.
Even local transfer from one bank to different bank incurs certain amount of fee.
Maybe, with CBDCs, the fees will be much smaller, that will benefit a lot of bank users.

They are always saying great things about CBDC to resolve problems and issues like securities and limitations. It is still in a conceptual stage. Banks are trying to reach out cryptocurrency by representing CBDC. While the platform indeed has a good objective of proposing regulated monetary authority, the situation is kinda not guarantee that it will going to be a smooth plan.

Will this CBDC be a threat to Central banks? As I can see what if majority moves their money to CBDC?

The idea of CDBC has been around from past few years but still many countries are developing or say in are trial basis for making their own Centeral Bank Digital currency.A few ambitious countries, including China with its digital yuan and South Korea, have already finished a demo and are piloting the technology. But a CBDC has yet to be deployed on a large scale.They are using blockchain technology for its development and storing information on distributed ledger's which can be accessed by everyone but still most of people do not use it.

But the centeral banks have control over these digital assest because of DLT technology which is permissioned blockchain which is different from Bitcoin which is completely decentralize and these CDBC can give rights to some particular members to alter and modify the records which is why people have trust related issues over such currencies.
Moreover they can track your payment and have tighter control over its citizens as what the government really want it to be.

Venezuela was a pioneer in this respect, launching its own cryptocurrency, the petro, in 2018. However, the petro is plagued by problems and very few Venezuelans actually use it

So the idea is still in air and not possible for government as people will still prefer decentralised mode of payments like btc in future.

https://decrypt.co/83124/edward-snowden-cbdcs-are-cryptofascist-currencies-that-could-casually-annihilate-savings
Edward Snowden: CBDCs Are 'Cryptofascist Currencies' That Could 'Casually Annihilate' Savings
"If the American economy were in dire straits, the Fed might impose a negative interest rate on people’s savings, forcing us to spend.

Former whistleblower Edward Snowden responded on Twitter to an article by Cornell political economist Dr. Eswar Prasad.
Dr. Prasad hypothesized a scenario where the US government could impose a negative interest rate and withdraw money directly from people’s savings.
Snowden followed up his tweet with a blog post outlining his concerns in greater detail that people could lose their monetary autonomy."

The probelm I have with central bank digital currencies are that they are just extension of fiat are this point, security is something that would be improved hands down and I do think that the government needs to use blockchain technology there, but at the same time they would definitely try and control the existing digital currencies as well, example bitcoins, Altcoins etc, that could be detrimental for the whole situation as well.

Negative interest rate ?
Withdrawing money from people's savings??
This is something where cryptocurrencies could be useful, if something like that is happening then they have to move from the governmental controlled currencies and actually invest their money somewhere where the government cannot control. I do not think this would happen at this point because this would defiantly flip the whole system out of place.

CBDCs are just like fiat currency but it also gives the government a number of advantages over fiat. The main advantage is surveillance over their citizens. Every single transaction is trackable, black money hoarders will be effectively discouraged, Money launderers will see new challenges to overcome, can effectively fight counterfeit fiat notes etc. So there are many benefits for the government.

China is doing a pilot but other countries will be quick enough to implement this CBDC. Slowly fiat will be abolished from the system which will save billions of dollar for the government to maintain a printing infrastructure and transportation of the same. This is going to be the future besides cryptos.

Indirectly, the government's aim seems to be in that direction. maybe the reason for this cdbc apart from being an option when they can't control crypto and with that the government wants to use this as a counter to a similar system but in a different way.
because what you say is true, CDBC actually can be said that fiat with the latest upgrade with almost the same system but used in a different way

They can do that already, though.  That's not the threat.  It's the surveillance and being able to block transactions to anything they don't approve of.  You can pretty much guarantee you wouldn't be able to donate to something like Wikileaks using a CBDC.

CBDC's is no different with digital fiat and as long its centralized then its just understandable or just using up your common sense would really be enough for you to tell that theres no much difference.
Its just understandable that government would stick out on something which can be controlled and would totally get rid or avoid on things which cant be controlled.
Sooner or later we would really be seeing CBDC's in the future because government cant just sit out and see for decentralized crypto to dominate.

I was wondering why this thread got bumped, but it's for a good reason and I'm glad you posted the link to that article.

I've not been paying much attention to what governments are doing in terms of creating their own cryptocurrencies, mainly because I don't think I'll ever see one created in the US during my lifetime, but the topic does interest me--and I tend to agree with Snowden about the negative effects they could create.  Any country that made a CBDC their legal tender would be completely stripping its citizens of their privacy, but more importantly their control over their own money (assuming the CBDC didn't exist alongside physical currency).  

Aren't you all glad bitcoin got created first, before banks and the governments they're in bed with thought of cryptocurrency first?  And anyway, anything that gets invented or discovered will inevitably wind up being a tool used by politicians to exercise control over people.  Nuclear bombs, the internet, vaccines, you name it.  I can't even begin to imagine what the world is going to look like 100 years from nwo now.

therefore they make a comparison as if this cdbc is different but in the end everyone knows that they are the same as fiat but with newer upgrades and the only difference between them is the name.
the role of the government is quite clear in this case, the first is that they want to control it but it doesn't work, after that they start to get around by banning it, and it doesn't seem to work either so then inevitably they have to make a match as if it looks better than crypto.

How do you consider out on talking about newer upgrades? For sure you are pertaining about on the tech behind applied on CBDC but in overall functionality then they do really just behaved on the same way.
Its heavily centralized and function out similar to fiat itself but in the form of digital aspect.Honestly we've been using digital transactions for a while and it wouldnt really be too far off to compare
in between both centralized things and thats why government do really much prefer these things than with crypto which is totally uncontrollable.

I think that they are the complete wrong use of blockchain technology.

What CBDCs mean is essentially more control for the government over your day to day spending activities.

They'll be able to track your spending on an immutable ledger, decide to freeze your money at any moment with a click of a button, and debase the currency supply in a heartbeat.

If bitcoin hadn't been created first, governments wouldn't have had a worthy opponent to compete with, the idea to create their own version of cryptocurrency wouldn't have crossed their minds. Before bitcoin was created, people had no choice but to use government currency in their everyday transactions. The usage of unapproved currencies was impossible because those were either physical, which means they were easy to confiscate, or virtual, issued by a single party, which means it was trivial for governments to shut down them. There was nothing to compete with, central banks were enjoying their privilege to print money. Until bitcoin happened. Given that bitcoin is hard to confiscate and impossible to shut down, central banks feel they are losing their monopoly on money printing. They now have to compete with bitcoin, they have no choice but try to prolong their existence by creating their own version of bitcoin.

Well, that's how innovations work. If youtube wasn't created, then we wouldn't have other netflix type of places neither, but that doesn't make one better than the other, we love them both, I mean I do love them both at least. As long as government sees crypto and thinks that it is a good thing and they want to be a part of it then I am totally fine with it. Let them come and let them participate in our magnificent crypto world.

I personally do love a challenge as well, they will try to not make crypto as cool as it is right now and try to promote their own thing to make as much money as they could, which they will eventually fail, but at least that challenge will be good for us.

I think that it's absolute BS but at the same time it's inevitable.

As long as crypto makes progress, blockchain technology will also be harvested to do some stuff that is less than desirable.

CBDCs is definitely one of these things given that it is pretty much fiat v2.0 which is entirely what bitcoin is trying to eliminate in the first place. But good money will drive out bad money, don't worry about that.

Definitely yes, with more and more countries focusing on their financial inclusion as well as on digitizing their economies, nothing other than CDBCs can provide them with the required level of security, also this will be a great way of showcasing for these countries that they are accepting cryptocurrencies but all you have to do is use our own CDBC which too is a cryptocurrency, the race has already started and seems like China will win it because it started way ahead of others but the implementation of such a system would still be havoc, personally I don't think so highly of CDBC, because I know the governments, they will just give fiats wrapped in an all-new box, they will still add some functionality to control the money supply which means these currencies would once again be inflationary and not deflationary.

Bitmex research published research (https://blog.bitmex.com/central-bank-digital-currency/) on a central bank issued digital coin last March.

A CBDC is a stable coin issued by the country's central bank that the public can use. When you deposit a dollar into your bank account, you are trusting both the bank and the central bank. You are trusting the former to return your deposit, and are trusting the latter because your bank keeps its reserves at the central bank. Currently it is not possible for a member of the general public to open an account at a central bank. If a central bank starts to issue a CBDC available to the public, the central bank would effectively be putting all the banks in the county out of business, as there would be no reason to deposit your money at the bank when you can just use the CBDC.

A CBDC will make it so banks can no longer lend, which will lead to deflation as money leaves the banking system.

I think CBDC is a government cliché and also represents blockchain as the future as it has been admitted.  CBDCs will reflect market attitudes and will largely affect stablecoins, so I think we will have many major changes in value before CBDCs can be released.

The competition between market players, who are of equal rights and opportunities, is what can be considered a key feature of a free market. Such a market is healthy and natural. As you said, we are witnessing that state of affairs when looking at how tech companies are trying to improve the services they offer to attract more users and gain market share. However, when it comes to money, we don't see any competition. Money printing is monopolized by the governments and central banks, private issuance is strictly prohibited. Given such conditions it is becoming evident that the rights and opportunities of the players are not equal, the government is more equal than others. If we had a free market for money, the government would undoubtedly lose because their product - paper money, is nothing more but paper, which is not very suitable for the role of money. The digital version of paper money is even worse because not only will it have the same characteristics paper money has but also it will allow governments and cdntral banks to gain even more power.

CBDC are yet to be successful because I don't know how government is going to adapt the changes meanwhile stable coins and other cryptos are working independently so government will try to stop the adoption of cryptocurrencies by restricting cryptocurrency exchanges and other services then they will slowly enforce the people to use cbdc but it will take atleast a decade for the complete roll out.

If we don't have bitcoin Today we would still be living in fake illusions that fiat and Governments are doing great job because we will not be having any alternative to them but now with bitcoin we came to know about our freedom and main thing financial freedom and we are not anymore central puppets.We cannot imagine what the world will look like after 100 years and maybe bitcoin will not be operational in worse cases and technology would be so advanced beyond our imaginations.But CDBC could not have fascinated me a lot because they are just digital version of worthless fiat and they could not compete with bitcoin anytime.

I think he's being too radical here. I understand why he's against it, and it has to do with who he is and what he's famous for, but policy-wise, I don't think they're that bad. It depends on the context. Countries can launch CBDC to replace cryptocurrencies and tell people to use their centralized coin instead of Bitcoin and others, and it's bad in this case. But they can also be like Ukraine that plans to launch CBDC along with making Bitcoin and other cryptos more available, creating a regulatory framework and hoping that Bitcoin will be used as payment for goods here one day. In that case, CBDC can be the first step towards cryptos for the majority of the population who needs the government's reassurance and currency's stability. Then they can slowly adjust and start using decentralized coins as well.

It sounds nice in theory, but the crucial factor is what form any regulation will take.  Generally speaking, humans have a weird compulsion to try and control things.  And that compulsion is more prominent when it's a group of humans in the form of a government.  They can't help but want to be in a position to pull strings and manipulate everything.  Maybe I'm being a pessimist, but I don't think most countries will give people that choice.  A few will.  But probably not many.  Or some will give the illusion of choice, engineering their regulations to make decentralised coins problematic to use, so the path of least resistance is for everyone to use their CBDC.

I do not think of anything that much honestly about it. It is not something that would be something that would change the world, it is something that would be boring in the end. Sure if you are a company that make tens of billions of dollars in investment then you might use it and make it into your portfolio in order to make profit so you could make investment into BTC right away thanks to ETF and CBDC together however it is not going to impact me as the regular person.

Maybe I would be using whatever American government brings instead of USDT but that wouldn't be something that would be super important for me because we already have stablecoins and if we are doing something like that then I do not care about anything since I already have something as alternative so why wouldn't I be using that instead of using CBDC, so it is basically a boring and better alternative.

 Here you can look through Central Bank Digital Currency Tracker https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/cbdctracker/ and find out that 5 countries are fully launched CBDC, some countries are on a pilot stage with their CBDCs  and a lot of countries are exploring them. I think that governments will slowly prepare people to the total replacement of fiat money on CBDC  notwithstanding the views of the people (probably not even asking the views of the people).

Talking on replacing fiat is something i dont really consider for this thing to happen even though CBDC's would become a new trend but still fiat would remain because we've been already dealing with digital fiat

since through ages and its not something a revolutionary thing on cbdc's existence because it isnt really just too far off or similar with fiat yet both is heavily centralized and if they do ever recognized

on dealing up with these things then people turns out to be having some options for them to get involved but honestly there's no much difference on this one.

As we can see, small countries like The Bahamas, Antigua & Barbuda, Grenada, Saint Lucia & Saint Kitts and Nevis, already fully launched their CBDC, maybe because they are small, they can easily see the impact of this CBDC implementation. It is quite easier to manage if the country is small. And then, we will see how successful they are in this action. But I believe, they are not converting their financial system totally to CBDC, still they co-exist with their fiat. Not all their citizens will embrace CBDC fast. They still need fiat in their system. Now, from these countries, we will see if they can indeed migrate to CBDC fully or not.

CBDC issue has been developing since China has started it.
And now some countries are adopting to create their CBDC.
I am probably not really interested in this. I don't know what exactly will happen if most countries will also create CBDB. And we can also see how many people are actually influenced by the presence of CBDC.
Some will say moreover it can bring bad news to crypto in general.
However, it is not sure enough.
AT least, the CBDC proves that the country has started something new in their currency

There is a much difference between the crypto currency we know and the CBDC. China has led the way by releasing their digital Yuan, now we should be looking forward to other countries that will release theirs too.

Personally, I would choose the decentralized currencies over CBDC that are issued out by the central banks. Most of us need that freedom just to be able to make use, and control our finances without any restrictions, making use of the CBDC is going to place restriction on that freedom that you have while making use of decentralized crypto currencies. So CBDC is a bad choice for me to make.

Perhaps we should first find out how effective the China cbdc so far since it was launched then you can draw up some ideas what will happen in other countries if cbdc is introduced,
To me it will same as any other government owned project which is heavily centralise and control the people, however,  if people are given the option to choose between cbdc and other crypto, many people won't bother about cbdc.

it's not up for the people to chose but the government. if the government of the country will have their cbdc, the people in this country will use cbdc obviously. you can only wish they allow crypto as well.

china will have the advantage to dominate in the future because they are the first to have a working cbdc but the country is the manufacturer of the world.

There was a lot of hype when China launched their CBDC. Months have passed, and the government even imposed a blanket ban on cryptocurrency to remove any potential competition. But I haven't heard about anyone using the e-CNY yet. For usage within China, the fiat users already have digital versions of the RMB. And for international transaction, a lot of users prefer stable fiat currencies such as USD and EUR over the manipulated Chinese Yuan. If their intention was to replace the BTC, then it hasn't been achieved as of yet.

This is wrong, see my above post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5312531.msg58182935#msg58182935). Adopting a CBDC will prevent commercial banks from being able to lend, which will prevent companies and individuals from being able to borrow money, which will grind their economy to a halt.

I would love to see China try to implement a CBDC, as it will delay or even prevent them from being able to take over the world. China wants to issue a CBDC in order to impose further control over their citizens, but I believe this will backfire spectacularly.

Stable coins currently have a certain level of risk, (as do bank accounts with commercial banks), and this is not the case with accounts with the central bank.  

There's nothing about a CBDC that stops lending based in the CBDC.  It doesn't even prevent fractional-reserve banking.  If anything, it would give the government a lot more information about the level of money supply expansion in real time as the all the data would be available as it happens.  The information would help inform monetary policy.

China's introduction of the CBDC will give the central bank an improved ability to survey and control the flow of money among citizens a digital yuan will appear as enabling the government to monitor the flow of money can be effective in curbing corruption, and helping the government monitor the financial system and reduce the likelihood of a financial crisis. A digital yuan can reduce the risk of certain investments but perhaps Political critics or dissidents can easily deny access to the financial system if all money flows can be tracked as they can with any CBDC.

Yeah, I think most of their hostility towards Bitcoin is due to concerns over its citizens moving money out of China.  They seem less inclined to openly admit that lately, but they have definitely said it on previous occasions.  In a way, I can see why they would be concerned.  It's still no excuse to limit personal freedoms, though.  After all, it's not their money.  Or at least, it isn't at the moment.  I suppose a CBDC would effectively make money their property.  That's the part people don't seem to grasp.  You won't have the freedom to decide where you can put your money.  It won't be your choice anymore.

I think the Chinese cbdc is the reason many other countries have started developing theirs. From the beginning the Chinese have criticized btc and have noticed it is not in the power to pull it down so they want competition but Chinese cbdc is not possible for a competition. It will only certisfy the digital need of the Chinese people and maybe trade between other cbdc

A CBDC means that citizens would have no reason to store any money in their bank account. A CBDC would allow citizens to do everything their bank account does via the CBDC. Banks would still have the ability to engage in fractional reserve banking, but as citizens withdraw their money in favor of the CBDC, banks would be unable to lend out money, as they would have no money to lend.

When a bank lends out money, they have to have actual money to lend. With fractional reserve banking, the bank assumes deposit holders will keep some of their deposit with the bank until the loan is repaid. Also, borrowers often deposit their loan proceeds with the bank giving the loan (or it will at least stay in the banking system). If deposit holders withdraw all their money, the bank wont have any money to lend.

Without a CBDC, the only way to remove money from the banking system is to withdraw cash from your bank account. If you have hundreds of thousands of dollars, or millions of dollars (or more), this is not really feasible, as protecting these amounts of money is difficult/costly.

Limit personal freedoms? China? No, they would never doo that. Mate their whole system is built on limiting personal freedoms. You can't even say anything bad about the president there. Like for example I can easily say Fuck Biden, nothing will happen, say Fuck Merkel, Fuck Boris Johnson, Fuck Macron, Fuck whoever is in charge at Spain or France or Sweden or Norway and so forth. Hell you can probably do it to their face as well, don't know how many chances you may get to get close to them, but if you ever do, you can do it and nothing will happen.

Not only you will never have a chance to face fatso leading China, but you will also never be able to say fuck you to his face, or even online, you will not be able to wake up next morning. This is why the most important part for them is to limiting freedoms and that is exactly why they banned bitcoin.

Chinese cbdc or totally talking about that digital Yuan then i could say that it wasnt totally the catalyst because its been already a while where stablecoins did exist even though it isnt heavily centralized just like CBDc's
but they had actually existed when it comes to general idea about centralization and somewhat stable then these are just the same.Just like on what others been saying that this isnt something that too different
with fiat so its not really that surprising that you would really be having this kind of impression.We've been dealing on things which are simply fiat on general sense.

I think you will hardly see anyone who would say that they are interested in the CBDC that’s being issued by the government and the central bank. People would rather go for what they are going to trust in handling transactions and storing their wealth.

I have seen a lot of countries that have said one or two things that shows that they are heading towards creating a central bank digital currency, and if you check you would see that majority of the people who are in those countries has no single interest at all in the CBDC, because they know that it will be unlike the decentralized cryptocurrencies that they have been using, such as Bitcoin and Ethereum that are fully decentralized and gives them freedom over their wealth.

CBDCs are usually going to be a 'forced monetary policy' again on us by governments to monitor our transactions which are not quite easy with cryptocurrencies that we use, if we understand the ways to keep ourselves anonymous. It is the boom in crypto industry which brought the idea of CBDCs in the minds of financial leaders, but bringing CBDC and making it meet the demand and needs of their citizens on a large scale are two very different matters. We can see an example of Tether to understand how 'bad' CBDCs will work in the real world.

I don't think governments will rush to replace their paper money with digitized central bank stablecoins. First, CBDCs must clearly fix their new and effective approach, prove their practical necessity and usefulness. On paper banknotes in my country it is written that banknotes are required for acceptance by all individuals, institutions and organizations. This means that citizens have the right to use them. I think there will be big protests from people if states try to remove paper money from circulation.

Never ever think that government would really allow for these things to happen that CBDC's would overpower fiat even on being digital?

They are centralized which do pass out on government standards but for sure they wouldnt really be putting up their trust and would make use of it.They would really be making their own without the need of touching those.

For now lets just take a pinch of a salt on how CBDC's would be performing in near future.

On the other hand, in fact, in this case, I think the government only makes fiat but it is based on more sophisticated technology because so far this is how the system implemented by CDBC is actually the same as fiat, but indeed they are more up-to-date by following the times.
actually simplenya I think just like that and nothing more.

I am against of all digital state currencies. They will still be under control of the government. The main idea of cryptocurrencies is decentralisation and uncontrollability from authorities, but digital euros, rubles, yuan will be under control, so what will be the difference between CBDC and just non-cash money?Only the platform of usage. CBDC will be on blockchain instead of bank account.

But we can not do anything except follow their regulations. Besides that, we live under government control and if we are trying to break their rules, we can get in jail, making us suffer. I think we can let the government use their way to control their fiat while we have another option to save our money in other forms and I think we already did with gold. The government seems to need to follow the technology and if they think creating their own digital money is necessary, they will do that with all of their resources. That is our benefit because people can use cashless methods to pay.

Of course they're controlled by the state and that's why from the meaning itself, there's "central" for which where it will operate. Just like us, we don't like the state controlling cryptocurrencies but just as what we want of them adopting crypto, this is their bold step into adoption. Although it's not fully adoption, they're making it look like that they've also stepped in and made their own crypto. But understanding the lying facts about CBDCs, it's not really cryptocurrencies. You're right that they've just upgraded and putting it into blockchain and there's not that much difference of having digital money.

In the other recently active CBDC topic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5369154.msg58360736#msg58360736), I challenged this notion.  Not only do I think they wouldn't use a blockchain, but I'd also call their intelligence into question if they did.  There's absolutely no benefit for them.  It would be an exercise in futility.

Don't think of CBDCs as "centralised crpyto".  Other than being a form of digital money, they're entirely different.  In terms of network architecture/topology and how it functions, I doubt there will be many similarities between CBDCs and crypto at all.

You're on point, thanks. If they're going to make as such into blockchain, there's no point anymore to them since it's already centralized.
Just as the usual network and process that they have with their existing system, they'll just use it then instead of making it look out that they're using blockchain for their benefits.

I wouldn't really imagine a world where centralized cryptocurrency would become blockchain based. However even assuming they do a centralized one that they could forever control, they could still build it with blockchain. I agree that there is no "need" for it, but the reality is that even if there is no need for it, it could still happen and I would still find it reasonable enough to spend resources on it.

I am not saying that they will, nor saying that they won't, all I am saying is that a centralized cryptocurrency with a blockchain is totally possible. Look at BUSD for example, they control all over it and Binance can do anything they want with it, what's the difference? That is exactly what CBDC would be like if they build it on blockchain.

Stablecoins today can be arbitrarily "frozen" by their issuers, and they are issued on blockchains. Even if miners were to confirm transactions of a frozen UTXO, the issuer could publicly say they will not honor that particular UTXO, so no one would be willing to give value to that UTXO.

A CBDC would effectively put banks out of business. The same people that are against business operating in response to market conditions, are the same people who want to be able to intimidate people that associate with people they do not agree with. A CBDC that uses a public blockchain would allow someone to monitor payments made to political enemies and opposition.

For the above reason, IMO, if a US CBDC is implemented, it would be on the blockchain.     

Yes that is right, having CBDC is going to help in improving the speed of transactions around the world. But I think one thing that people are not liking about this CBDC is because they are paired with Fiat. Most people that I ask about the CBDC they just say to me that it is still the same fiat that is being given to us but now in a digital form.

So, they like the idea of CBDC (central bank digital currency), but they don’t like the fact that it is the same Fiat because they don’t like Fiat.  They see fiat as a currency that would still end up losing value in future, so it’s not really worth holding it that much.

As for me I will say that Fiat plays some major roles in our day-to-day lives, so it wouldn't be bad for the government to improve it to the standard that they about to do now, but then we already know the right thing to do, don’t hold only Fiat. You should also try to invest in other cryptocurrencies and other types of stocks that you can find, that are worth investing your money in.

There are cons and there are pros about it. The pros is endless because it is literally fiat in a digital world and made easier to travel around the world as well (not you, the money, although you could travel with it if you want). So just like crypto, you could send someone all the way other side of the world in a minute by spending very little, such an easy thing, and that person could exchange it for whatever and then get it to their own fiat and you just moved money from god knows where to middle of nowhere very easily.

However, the only downside here is that we are still talking about something centralized and people do not like that, it is reasonable for people to not like it and I get it, sure it is a technological improvement over what we have right now so we should be happy about it all the same, but while we are improving so much and in an era with decentralization, it is sad to see that is not going to get bigger with CBDC.

Depends, really.  As an example, that sounds like the total opposite of what China would be looking for in their particular CBDC.  I'm betting they design theirs to strictly limit how much can be moved out of China. 

It may not be a safe assumption that you'll get as much freedom in your nation state mandated currency as you do in Bitcoin.

Government-backed digital currencies (or CBDCs) are the exact opposite of cryptocurrencies. They're centralized, heavily manipulated, and fully auditable by the government. You get no privacy when it comes to using a "digital state currency". This will only increase governments' surveillance efforts, paving the way for a "New World Order". I'm pretty sure most countries will turn against decentralized cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum in order to force the use of CBDCs. Crypto might survive but mainstream adoption will decrease by a large margin. As long as people have an "escape route" from the government-controlled financial system, there should be nothing to worry about. Just my opinion :)

The government created the CBDC with the alibi of wanting to save the public from the scams that occur in the market.  But in reality, when compared to fraud using Fiat, the number is also very large.  They made CBDC just a rival not a technology with a solution for all parties.  This is where the government is selfish in making policies.  They forbid the public to use crypto to secure their conditions and powers only.

I really wonder how they will be done and how they will be received. We are all talking about like it is a bad thing and I do agree that it will be a worse knock off version of cryptocurrency but that doesn't change the fact that we are talking about something that is government backed.

Do you want to know the power of government? Richest person in the world has 200ish billion dollars worth of money, just last year USA printed out 2+ trillion dollars and recently accepted a 1 trillion dollar infrastructure deal and spends around 750 billion dollars YEARLY on military. That's the power of government and I am pretty sure they will do their best to get everyone to use their currency.

Sure there would be other countries that would come up with their own CBDC. Apart from China creating its own digital Yuan, another country that I have heard has created their own CBDC is Nigeria, which is called the E-Naira. As time goes on there might be other countries that would come up with their own as well, and it’s possible that the United States will create their own digital USD.

But, I don’t know if these digital currencies will really go far or not. The good thing about them is that they would help to reduce cost of transactions like you have said and also increase the speed of transactions, which is really good.

Exactly. The government has the power to do whatever it wants. You can bet it'll manipulate a CBDC just like it's been doing with traditional Fiat these days. The situation will be even worse since every transaction will be visible on a centralized ledger. Most people don't understand what crypto/Blockchain tech is all about, so they'll assume a digital currency launched by the government is a good thing (when in fact, it is not).

I wouldn't be surprised if the US and other countries begin cracking down on crypto in order to force the use of CBDCs. If that happens, mainstream adoption for decentralized cryptocurrencies will decline at an accelerated rate. Who knows if this leads to a major decline in crypto assets' prices on the market? Just my opinion :)

Yeah, there are enough possibilities for USA and other countries to introduce their own CBDC but in my  understanding that all decentralized cryptocurrencies (or at least bitcoin) will remain as digital asset whereas CBDCs will be in circulation just another digital fiats.

I mean still I will use my government's CBDC to buy bitcoin similar to exactly how I am currently doing with my credit card or skrill account. So, I am not seeing government's stand on CBDC will script the decline of cryptocurrencies. I am saying this because cryptocurrencies are not being used as currencies as of now but it is being treated like digital assets which may go more intensive if enforcement of CBDC takes place in coming days.

I think that in some countries the governments are going to try to stop people from making use of cryptocurrencies as a means of transaction, so that people will divert to making use of the government’s digital Fiat for whatever transaction they would like to make. Then As for decentralized cryptocurrencies, such as Bitcoin, Ethereum, and the rest of them in the market, they would be considered as an asset that people can buy and sell. That has been the situation or how things are being done in some countries right now, people are only allowed to buy and sell cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin as an asset, and not making use of faith as a method of transaction.

And I’m on the same side with you that if the government should release their CBDC, it is not going to stop people from making use of cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin. So, I am not seeing any downside on this, the cryptocurrency market will continue to grow.

They can co-exist anyway, and besides, we have seen that the government can't fully stop the crypto transactions as it is decentralized. As they have seen, even the total banning of China, doesn't affect much the crypto market. So if they will do the same, it doesn't mean, people will stop transacting with crypto, it may even proliferate as the adoption is growing stronger. So in terms of creation of CBDC, it is like we are already experiencing it right now by dealing with digital fiat currencies.

As long government exist then this will surely co-exist together with current crypto currencies in the market which we should really not be surprised on whats the take on this one because they would be surely be mainly supported and adopted with government which simply implies that they will both exist no matter what. Dealing with CBDC's? Your choice to make because not all would really be that positive
towards this another centralized thing.

No one knows what will happen in the future. Either decentralized cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum survive or see their demise due to fierce government crackdowns. Governments will probably force the use of CBDCs (especially communist/socialist ones) greatly impacting crypto's mainstream adoption. People don't understand what crypto/Blockchain tech is truly about, so they will believe a government-backed digital currency is a good thing.

As I've said before, CBDCs will only increase government's surveillance efforts. It'll be the end of an era for privacy as we speak. Decentralized cryptos might still be around, but adoption will be extremely low. People will be afraid of using something outlawed by the government as they could face fines or jail time. Things are widely unpredictable in the world of crypto, so we should be prepared for the worst. Just my thoughts ;D

The Central Bank of Russia in 2024 will begin to gradually connect all Russian banks to the digital ruble platform
"The Central Bank explained that in 2022 the digital ruble platform is being tested, and already in 2023 the regulator plans to start piloting “real money” settlements between individuals, as well as individuals and enterprises. Also in 2023, a limited number of participants will be given the opportunity to conclude and execute smart contracts on the digital ruble platform, that is, transactions that are automatically executed upon the occurrence of conditions predetermined by the parties, the document says."

https://rg.ru/2022/08/12/cb-v-2024-godu-nachnet-poetapno-podkliuchat-banki-k-platforme-cifrovogo-rublia.html
https://regnum.ru/news/3668695.html
https://tass.ru/ekonomika/15456993

This just tells us the switch to CBDCs is inevitable. Russia is following its neighbor China by adopting a digital currency system of its own. Other countries are exploring the possibility of launching CBDCs to the public (like the UK and Japan), so it shouldn't be long enough before paper money (and possibly credit/debit cards) will be phased out for good. While it the transition from physical Fiat to digital Fiat may seem like a good thing, you'd be sacrificing privacy for convenience in the long run. It'll be the perfect system for governments to track and trace every person's financial activities at will. Perhaps, they will even implement an "auto tax" feature that will automatically deduct taxes from the income you receive.

As I've said before, there will be no privacy on such a system because everything will be highly visible by governments and central banks alike. It's yet to be seen whenever governments will still allow crypto to be used alongside Fiat (CDBCs) or all the other way around. We've already seen what China did against Bitcoin after it launched its own CDBC, so it's likely other countries will do the same in order to prevent people from getting financial sovereignty. Who knows what the future holds for the entire crypto/Blockchain industry? Just my thoughts ;D

Most states are now conducting their own research and are trying to create their own CBDC, that is, digitized national currencies. But many states are not yet in a hurry with this issue and want to first look at the work of the digitized currencies of other states. So far, one thing is clear: their appearance is inevitable and they should significantly improve bank non-cash payments. The opinion of citizens about them can hardly be heard. First, these CBDCs need to start working and some kind of practice should be developed. It's too early to talk about this topic.

Have you got an opinion made about CBDCs already?

Jeez why would we need such thing? We have no need for controlling our lives through money. I am not saying it will happen, but it sure does open a Pandora's Box.
People in the majority still don't have financial literacy, and now will have to deal with CBDC's too?

I think that people need medication, and ease of access to financial markets to get used to save and invest.
Decentralized crypto is a far better option than CBDC's, and projects aiming to bring ease of access to Defi for example, are projects working on the good for the people.

I would guess that checking others is the main reason why we do not have any big ones yet anyway. I mean it is not that hard to achieve it, it is quite difficult to sustain it though, specially without any problems at all. I personally would prefer if they somehow managed to make it work with little to no examples on their hands because that would be the one that goes up great.

Bitcoin is not the best blockchain tech in the world, but it is the biggest crypto, there are other cryptos with better blockchain, but they are not bigger. Because, bitcoin was there first. If someone does a good CBDC first, they will lead everyone else for sure, and they shouldn't be scared at all.

China and Russia do have very good reasons to create a centralised digital currency - controlling the people and how they use their money. No wonder these states are super eager to create a currency that simply cannot scape tracking and will probably make it mandatory for any transaction above a certain threshold in order to make this policy effective.

That's certainly true, mate. It has always been about power. A CBDC with a publicly-verifiable ledger makes the ideal surveillance tool for authoritarian states like China and Russia. Even democratic countries like the US and Japan could make use of CBDCs for their own benefit. This is a dangerous precedent for our financial future as we speak, since it will mark the end of an era for privacy. Every single government and central bank will have access to people's financial information, paving the way towards a "New World Order". It sounds scary, but it's the path we've been heading to ever since COVID-19 took the world by storm. Digital payments and teleworking are the norm of today's society, with the intention of taking away our true sovereignty.

At least, decentralized cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum will be there to save the day. As long as decentralization prevails, people will still be able to enjoy privacy with CBDCs in play. Just my opinion :)

Medication or education? Education is the way to go. Education on personal finances ad investments, raising finacial literacy.
For those people, Defi is still a mistery. The Rebus Chain project https://twitter.com/RebusChain (https://twitter.com/RebusChain) is making it easier to access all of the Defi investment opportunities for people that don't do crypto regularly. Working on the mass adoption theme, I think it will make the Defi space grow.

No matter how they repackage the benefits with CBDC it cannot be compared to what bitcoin stand to provides to the people, Fiat will always be fiat and bitcoin bitcoin will always be under cryptocurrency, they are two different currencies which roles are different entirely, but no matter how the repackaging of a CBDC is, it can never be the same as bitcoin.


No any substantial difference felt from those that successfully launched their CBDC, they are still centralized colonizers and no one is desperate in seeing further launch than the anticipated interest with bitcoin and its adoption.

Both China and Russia have varied pattern of governance as well as policies. China always looks for each and everything to be availed separately for their country. They don't allow applications from other countries, but their applications needs the acceptance globally. The country have some sort of controversial policies. They always want its citizens under their control. Russia on the other side have good wealth, still it stands on the third world country list. Here also the people are under control. So both countries to make financial management easier with ease of taxation, CBDC is under development.