Bitcoin Forum

Or ANY miners for that matter?  Cheap labor?  Automation?  It seems to me that we have the tech.  It's not rocket science.

They can do but they have to bear a lot of cost for doing that.
Bitcoin mining requires a lot of energy. So anyone who wants to set up a mining farm will try to set it up in a place where electricity price is relatively cheap and mining equipment is available at low prices. That's why most the miners prefer places like China, Cyprus where electricity prices are relatively low.

I think he was asking why the USA has no mining machine manufacturers.

I believe it probably does have to do with labour. It also could be tariffs on certain stuff that is required to manufacture them.

This is the correct answer.

As we can see in the chart below, the electricity cost per Kwh in USA is about 50% higher than China.

https://www.ovoenergy.com/binaries/content/gallery/ovowebsitessuite/images/guides/how_much_does_electricity_cost__large-copy-8.png
https://www.ovoenergy.com/guides/energy-guides/average-electricity-prices-kwh.html

I don't know why we don't have many miners in India, where it is also cheap. But I think China has one additional advantage: They have some of the biggest hydro plants (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_hydroelectric_power_stations) in the world. Energy is probably much cheaper near those hydro plants.

I'm pretty sure there are a few American companies that make miners as well; it's just that as far as I know, they're just significantly more expensive.

As for why China is mostly the best place to buy miners: I don't have any sources to back this up, but I'm pretty certain it's the same reason why China is mostly the go-to place for mass manufacturing of pretty much anything— I think it's just simply because labour and materials are simply far inexpensive in China.

Here is your American miner
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20201203005229/en/Titan-Establishes-First-Enterprise-Grade-Bitcoin-Mining-Pool-in-North-America

Did I get that right? I might be wrong so do correct me I just googled American Bitcoin miner. It seems like it started mid January but I never really saw any updates on it after that Dec announcement.

As for why America has none (or mostly, since what I posted seems to be one), Others have already pointed out, cheap electricity, labor, maybe also land costs for establishment as well? In general I guess, it's just more advantageous for mining farms to be established in China than in other countries (even if you consider it just with electricity alone).

Multiple reasons.

Tech-wise, none of them were as good as Bitmain's design in the beginning. So Bitmain took the lead. The biggest of semiconductor fabrication facilities are not American and not close to the US mainland. Chinese companies have a lead there too.

Bitmain uses most of its best miners to earn bitcoin and thus had a great revenue stream to rely on. Make miners, deploy (with the cheapest energy cost), earn the most BTC. Sell, re-invest for better tech. Repeat. Bitmain went from 16nm for S9 to 7nm fabrication within 3-4 years. This is probably the fastest up-scaling of a semiconductor product line ever.

American companies never had that kind of revenue stream and support to re-iterate designs and re-invest.

OP is talking about miner manufacturers. Mining farms mostly just use the most efficient miners out there. Which are almost always Bitmain manufactured.

Indeed this is what i also understand from the title itself that Mining rigs is what OP is pointing and not the literal mining operations.
Well of course LABOR is one of the main reason because the cost is really high in countries like US and Europe .
and also good point that the Tariffs in trading is considered as well.

But in competence ? US has the resources doing such.

Isn't US energy prices cheap too? AFAIK some states have cheap electricity, don't they have nuclear power plants in the US? Besides the power costs, I think that the reason that there are little to no companies specializing in bitcoin miners is the lack of investors unlike other countries that are the main investors in the project US has problems making it past these potential investors.

To answer you that.

Why Apple and Tesla have chosen China or any other Asian country for their manufacturing? low cost. US isn't cheap for labor if ever there's a company chose to make and produce in miners the US.

We all know "labour" cost is dirt cheap in China and their level of automation is superior to most nations. They also have a patent on the ASIC technology that they have for those miners that they manufacture. The USA will be able to build them, but the Chinese market will under cut their prices and kill the US market.  ::)

I think Silicon valley are absolutely geared to develop and manufacture ASIC miners, but it would be better to outsource this to Mexico or India for the actual manufacturing. (to cut the labor cost)  ;)
 

It just seems to me they don't want the hassle that comes with it it. I know it's hard to imagine companies would turn down the option to make additional profits, but companies also like to stick to their core business, and, if they are doing good, not to poke around in loosely regulated and shakey projects like bitcoin (not saying it's not reliable, just not reliable as their regular business). They also have boards that hold the leadership of those companies accountable, and I can imagine a lot of board members not being into the whole Bitcoin trend going on.

Even if American companies make things, they're all manufactures in China anyway. Where else can you get cheap labor, plus cheap materials plus the manufacturing technology? I think other than ownership and management, most things are made in China anyway.

It's not just that too, the laws are very lax there on "doing things right".

The answer is still at least partially right since the production of miners requires a lot of energy as well. Add labour to that and the costs of materials and you'd have a pretty accurate answer to OP's question. About everything is cheaper there, so the question is.. Why would you buy a more expensive equipment just for its country of production?

It'll make more sense for companies to be making miners in the regions for which they're concentrated at. Bitmain entered the game fairly early and could afford to mass manufacture their ASICs at a lower price and a lower shipping cost since it's within China. Bitcoin ASICs or any mining ASICs are a very niche kind of chips and they're only useful for one thing and I presume the demand in US is actually not particularly high or sufficient enough. The profit margin can get razor thin for both the US miners as well as the companies.

Wasn't ButterflyLabs based in the US? And also some of the other mining companies?

I don't see how this answer is correct. First of all it gives an answer about a different question. It doesn't answer why nobody else except the Chinese are manufacturing ASIC equipment for Bitcoin mining. Secondly, it states that Cyprus has relatively low electricity, while in fact it has one of the highest costs of electricity in the European Union.

https://www.stockwatch.com.cy/en/article/energeia/cyprus-ranks-7th-most-expensive-electricity-market

Agreed.  The question is manufacturing MACHINES not mining.  Also, when companies can't even produce enough of what they have doesn't this leave room for more competition?  Just look at the prices of these new machines that run at lower watts.  There is a real demand for these at the current prices of BTC.  I'm just curious why no American companies are not only making them now but haven't in the past.  They could OEM the factories in China I guess.  But there are plenty of companies that make their own computer boards in this country.  I guess it's about overall market share not being high enough. 

1) According to google, electricity fee in USA is 0.13 USD in comparison with China where it is around 35% lower (0.084 USD).

2) We all know that generally in asian countries the labour is much cheaper than in western countries.

3) From my perspective asians (especially japanese companies) have excelent production competences (maybe I'm not informed enough).

It is true that the cost of electricity in America is much cheaper than in China...
but I think the problem is not related to electricity costs. The US has very good resources but the bureaucracy there is not. and the cost of electricity is usually the result of a decision by the members of parliament cmiiw.

I remember about a few years ago discovering several Bitcoin mining machines made in America, but it is more expensive than machines made in China.
So some American companies stopped producing them, as usual, China can make anything cheaper because it is related to material and labor issues,
which are indeed much cheaper than America. So China can produce Bitcoin mining machines that are cheap. So America is indeed less competitive
than China regarding Bitcoin mining machines,  therefore what is widely circulating in the market is mining machines made in China.

There's a lot of miners who prefer less energy consumption, and now in this modern times technology gets evolved so many ways to conserve it. Solar farms do provide cheaper source of power and yet it's available in the market. Miners who can afford to buy and invest for this kind of equipment would literally purchase then run a mining operation.

They wanna make it obscure if they do have mining rigs since it will spark an issue with the media, we all know how awful those guys are and how negative they are towards bitcoins and cryptocurrencies in general. Or they don't and have gone through several feasibility studies and found out that mining isn't as profitable as it is anymore, and unless you run a large scale factory that automatically does the mining for you, the tradeoff isn't going to be nice. China is all about quantity over quality, which is why they make more than the US, America on the other hand is more about the quality of the product.

Is possible that American companies can make bitcoin mining machine,we know that mining machine require much concentration and funds to accomplish the processes, because this bitcoin mining machine sounds very simple to mention and very hard to get, because assuming it's easy many companies would have gotten yours, and its obvious that having this machine depends on level of productivity a company can generate weekly, if actually their target is been achieved without having the machine, is of no use for having bitcoin mining machine.

make miners for what purpose for personal or for selling and why will they create one . we dont know whats their reason on why wont they create but it could be that they are already rich enough and already contented on their living and wants no stress anymore  but maybe there are some companies that makes a miner or bought a miner to do a mining business and we arent just informed because they want it to be private . dont worry , mining industry is still pretty healthy on many countries .

Most likely they do, especially now that mining is profitable again.

Argo Blockchain have started to mine in USA.

https://argoblockchain.com

However, they are listed on the London stock exchange.

Price up 1800% in a year (and boy, am I kicking myself for missing them).

Bitcoin mining rig is very expensive, even though America is a Rich country still it will be hard for them to produce many rigs, it will only create scarcity, it happen to us here in my country last 2017, the graphics cards price went high and people started to panic buying so other people who are not into bitcoin mining are very angry because they are affected electricity cost, ventilation cost and upgrade parts are expensive and needed to be maintain for you not to experience errors and problems.

United State is not legal for bitcoin and altcoin so there are not place and space for bitcoin become to mining or anything else like founding ICO project, many ICO and IEO not allowed for United State investor to buy coins because not allowed by their government and faced cases later if allowed or United State investor to buy ICO or IEO coins.

Some American companies definitely have mining farms maybe in China or maybe even somewhere in USA. I’m not sure that companies that own mining farms are allowed to announce about it to an ordinary people. They do it anonymously and illegally.

It is something that a company should really invest on and I guess its not their main focus at the moment. Creating a mining rig would take a lot of investment if they really want to create something profitable, they should consider many aspects before creating one.
They may also be focused on another matter because of the occurring pandemic and this companies can only do so much to keep their life safe and going in a way that would secure their future.

An economic country like the United States, probably the vast majority of companies will secretly pour money into this market, invest in bitcoin and the altcoin top, and with just a few small twitter posts, all that was enough for them to be more profitable. Becoming a miner and having a bitcoin mining farm is probably not right for the law of the country, the tax issues will be very heavy and sometimes weather risks can hurt productivity, cooperation with China will probably be zero when the relationship between the two countries is very strained

What you are talking about are some traditional mining methods. I don’t think this is beneficial.,
There are many people who don’t know how to mine online

America have lot of other expensive works also Labor cost is too expensive in USA . specially R&D staff charge too much .  That's why china and Asian go ahead with ASIC miners development . and Europe is best for mining most of rigs and units have own electricity source like solar & Hydro .
American made electronics are very costly same like iPhone and Samsung if any American company came for manufacturing Mining machines they will ask high price but competitors offering low price so now one will buy or low sales .
hopefully you got my point

"Missouri-based" according to The Verge (https://www.theverge.com/2014/9/23/6833047/bitcoin-conspiracy-theorists-vindicated-as-ftc-shuts-down-butterfly-labs).  I think almost all the ones that were based in the US turned out to either be terrible companies or just outright scams, heh.  CoinTerra and HashFast were also US-based and decidedly sketchy.

Bullsh** Where the hell did you get that info from?
Crypto mining is fully legal here in the US. Just be sure to follow all financial regulations and pay all taxes due.

As for ICO/ITO etc - that is another story. Still fully legal to start a new one IF you follow all the regulations regarding them. However considering that most altcoins/tokens are crap/trash which were created just to make the developers a quick boat load of cash, sure, lots of them cannot be legally exchanged here. Ripple is a perfect example of what happens when you try to get around regulations that have been put into place to cut down on the scammers.

And let us not ever forget AMT which was supposed to be the American distributor of "Made in America" miners based on the A1 chip from the Swiss company Bitmine.ch.
Just one of the many threads about them from 2014: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=304605.6400

While AMT's failure was not entirely the fault of its owner Josh Zipkin he nonetheless acted in very unethical manners when it became apparent that the hash board layouts that Bitmine.ch provided to AMT were 'designed' by idiots with no idea about how to design power electronics. AFAIK Josh still owes many people several thousand dollars each for miners that were never delivered.

Several reasons.

-Expensive Labor
-Expensive resource
-Expensive Development staffs etc.
-Expensive Electricity

Its just non-sense if you do consider on building one out of these circumstances.
You would instead jump off into those countries which does have lesser or much cheaper when it comes
to those points above.

You got it right. Cheap labor, easy access to raw materials and availability of cheap products is NOT what you can find over here in the US. The production cost would make the price of the final product not look attractive when compared to mining equipment produced in other countries where the production factors are quite cheap.
So its much more profitable to import and sell it rather than making their own machines.
Or if you are talking about bitcoin block miners, power bills aren't cheap over here.