Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin => Hardware wallets => Topic started by: Crypto2077 on February 25, 2021, 12:30:36 AM

Title: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: Crypto2077 on February 25, 2021, 12:30:36 AM

I just bought a Trezor T, Nano Ledger X and a Yubikey to keep my bitcoin safe.

I'm considering that I should invest some more money for a dedicated device to store my Bitcoin. Since I'm positive that my current devices, both laptop and smartphone are infected with viruses and trojans because I've been using them for Adult websites regulary.

What is the most secure device out there that works with my hardware wallets and yubikey?

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: bitmover on February 25, 2021, 01:20:55 AM

Quote from: Crypto2077 on February 25, 2021, 12:30:36 AM

Theoretically, you can use a Ledger Nano or a trezor in an infected device.

However, there are some malware which may cause you trouble even using a hardware wallet:

Quote

Morveus Ledger Plex Director & Co-Founder
3 years ago
Your private keys are safe, that's what the device is for (protecting you against malwares).

What the Nano S will not protect you against:

Malwares that change the addresses displayed in your browser: let's say you are buying stuff on the Web, the webshop displays address "1abcd" and in a split second, the malware changes it to "1zzzz". The idea is that you will then copy/paste the fake address and send funds to it

Validating transactions without double-checking: when signing a transaction, the Nano S will always ask you to double-check the receipient address; if that address has been modified on-the-fly and you don't double-check if what's displayed on the device's screen is really the address you are trying to send funds to, you will lose money

Note that the first case is more likely to happen than the second one right now (there are no known malwares that target transaction building right now) but both of them are valid scenarios and may become more frequent in the near future.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/6i7mjk/is_it_safe_to_use_ledger_with_a_computer_that_im/

I would suggest that you format your Notebook. Then, you can create two Users: A user without any admin privileges, just to use adult content. And another user account, with admin privileges, to use only for crypto with your hardware wallet.

This may mitigate some problems. However, the best thing is to avoid watching adult websites in the same device as you trade cryptocurrencies.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: mk4 on February 25, 2021, 02:41:26 AM

You should be able to transact safely with an infected computer using either hardware wallet; you just need to not-get-tricked if it's the case that your computer has malware that's created to steal cryptocurrencies.

Really though, just do a clean re-install of your computer's operating system just to be sure. Crypto or no crypto, using a malware-infested device as your main device isn't a good idea.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: pooya87 on February 25, 2021, 04:15:17 AM

Quote from: bitmover on February 25, 2021, 01:20:55 AM

It is best to have the bitcoin storage on a device that has never been connected to any networks and will never be connected either. A fully offline airgap computer. Otherwise the connected to internet device is already at risk whether user goes to risky sites or not.
But your suggestion is still good to create a hot wallet with small spending amounts in it.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: crwth on February 25, 2021, 04:23:25 AM

I like how honest you are with your adult site's journey. Lol. You should be careful when visiting those kinds of sites and not click anything that could affect your computer.

Anyway, just like what they have said above me, it's practically safe in essence. Just make sure to authenticate the addresses you are going to show to you on your device in the screen of the Ledger and check if it matches the one you are going to send to. That's safe already.

Don't overthink it too much.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: Silberman on February 25, 2021, 04:42:11 AM

Quote from: Crypto2077 on February 25, 2021, 12:30:36 AM

You could just format your devices so you are sure that there is nothing there and then install one of the many flavors of Linux, many people still think that Linux is difficult to use but compared to the early days there are many distributions that are very friendly with the user and that offer better security right out of the box than anything you can get with Windows, if you do this and use your hardware wallets then you will be safer than the majority of the users of cryptocurrencies and the chances you lose your money will be very low.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: BIN-BIN on February 25, 2021, 04:53:30 AM

Well if you have the resources to buy new devices why not but if you don't have the resources yet you can still format you old devices and get the clean up for use again.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: hd49728 on February 25, 2021, 06:00:11 AM

Quote from: BIN-BIN on February 25, 2021, 04:53:30 AM

Well if you have the resources to buy new devices why not but if you don't have the resources yet you can still format you old devices and get the clean up for use again.

It is not the answer.

You can format your disk, reinstall your OS but it can not save you when you connect your device to the Internent and more unsafely if you visit adult websites or blindly click and open any given links from strangers or from anyone else.

You can not format your device every day.

I store my bitcoin in Electrum on an offline device. I only connect it to the Internet when I spend my bitcoin.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: jrrsparkles on February 25, 2021, 06:33:01 AM

Even if you buy a new device and connect it to the internet means it is potential to get inflected with some kind of virus but the chances will be reduced a lot anyway you already bought a hardware wallet then no need to waste your money to buy another pc just to broadcast the transaction.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: AGD on February 25, 2021, 06:45:20 AM

Quote from: hd49728 on February 25, 2021, 06:00:11 AM

Quote from: BIN-BIN on February 25, 2021, 04:53:30 AM

Well if you have the resources to buy new devices why not but if you don't have the resources yet you can still format you old devices and get the clean up for use again.

Why formatting a disk when you can unplug it and use a live os and any encrypted usb stick to store your data?

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: meanwords on February 25, 2021, 09:51:28 AM

If you're really paranoid about this. Why don't you just buy another PC or Laptop and let that device be the storage for your crypto.? I mean, it's unnecessary because you already have a good hardware wallet but it will help with your mind. You can connect it to internet but don't do browsing or downloading in that device just to be safe.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: TheGodson on February 25, 2021, 10:33:34 AM

Another way is to go to bitaddress.org. Go offline. Print out a paper wallet or a few if the amount is substantial and move them to safe locations. Bitcoin thieves are computer geeks and less likely to use brute force. Just don't tell anybody about where you store them.

I think diversifying where you store your coins is good, but paper wallets are the most secure in my opinion.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: demanze on February 25, 2021, 10:51:29 AM

The most secure way is to store bitcoin is to learn programming, cryptography and make your own wallet ;D

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: 20kevin20 on February 25, 2021, 10:55:29 AM

Airgapped PC with a clean, encrypted install of a Linux OS is your best bet. Keep that as a safe offline storage for the long term and use Electrum or Wasabi as your wallet. Store BTC on the airgapped PC (and sign txs from it) and use an online PC to view your balances (so your offline airgapped PC has the seed while the online PC has just a view-only wallet) & broadcast txs.

Here's a tutorial for installing an encrypted Debian system: https://xo.tc/setting-up-full-disk-encryption-on-debian-9-stretch.html

If you want to go "over the top", be careful since your computer might have some microphone/camera/wireless modules on it. If you want to prevent even more kind of hacks, it would not be a bad idea to remove those as well. Other tips..: try to use USB devices as least possible as you can.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: target on February 25, 2021, 11:13:57 AM

Security will only depend on how you take care of it. You may have secure Linux OS and install Bitcoin Core in there but you are also watching porn every day using that device that might just pick up a malicious file that will work on Linux system. You are still in danger. You already have a ledger nano, you can always use that, I can read reviews about it being safe as long as you have the private key.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: XZERO1 on February 25, 2021, 11:32:53 AM

Storing your Bitcoins offline is the safest way, so you have to buy one of the hardware wallets which can be removed from your device and be kept offline and you can keep it in a very safe place.

Or just use a paper wallet which involves all that you need to access your wallet to be printed on a piece of paper, but then again you should be really careful with this one since it's all you have and one way to be extra safe is to make copies and keep every copy in a different safe place so that if something happens to one copy you would have access to the other ones.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: 100bitcoin on February 25, 2021, 11:34:53 AM

Quote from: Crypto2077 on February 25, 2021, 12:30:36 AM

Every device will have some kind of flaw. Hence IMHO, Bitcoin is best stored for long term with pen and paper. Write your WIF key in your notebook and put it in a safe place, e.g. your Book shelf or Bank locker whichever deems better.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: dkbit98 on February 25, 2021, 01:52:03 PM

Quote from: Crypto2077 on February 25, 2021, 12:30:36 AM

First rule to remember, your seed words are more important than device you are using.
There is no perfect and most secure device for keeping your bitcoin safe, and everything can have flaws.

I would always go for open source wallets like Trezor if you already have that, but only if you are using BIP39 passphrase, and if you are sure that you have trojans and viruses than don't use that devices for anything.
Hardware wallets are generally designed to work fine even with infected computers and only thing that can affect you if you have some keyloggers that record what you type.

Clean up, format and install fresh OS on one device (it can be some cheap old laptop) and use it only for crypto related stuff like wallets.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: sheenshane on February 25, 2021, 03:59:45 PM

To the most mentioned above was right, a Hardware wallet is the safest way to store our Bitcoin safe because it's our solely responsible to have strong security in our Bitcoin wallet. So we should have all of these necessary safety precautions and must up-to-date those latest securities improvements regarding how to protect our valuable assets in cryptos.

A Hardware wallet device designed that can protect itself from being infected by malware as said above, but once we are doing a transaction often online, we are vulnerable at risk. So, you should separate the cold storage wallet and the hot wallet storage if there's a daily small transaction we need you can transfer your hot wallet or transfer to cold storage for saving purpose, this is a good practice and one of the best methods to safeguard our crypto assets.

Separate device for cryptocurrency wallet is good advice, it should clean and must be often use in browsing or not always connected to the internet connection and most especially avoid public networks providers, they are vulnerable or sometimes have security flaws, this might also a risk while accessing your wallet.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: milewilda on February 25, 2021, 04:06:39 PM

100% security doesnt really exist on this world and talking most secure then this wont only just varying on hardware itself but also with those things
that you are doing. Who would consider on using the Hardware wallets on an infected computer? If you do have that kind of common sense then it
will really save up your ass from time to time. Trezor,Ledger etc. is indeed safe but doesnt mean that it would completely wipe out those
probabilities of such mistake to happen.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: ranochigo on February 25, 2021, 04:10:59 PM

Quote from: bitmover on February 25, 2021, 01:20:55 AM

Privilege escalation attacks are not uncommon in malware and I would certainly always assume the worst case scenario with this.

Using them for suspicious website alone wouldn't probably infect you with malware if you're using a browser like Chrome. It has a sandbox that should reduce the risk factor.

Anyhow, unless you are able to separate your browsing activities from crypto, I can't see anything that would be foolproof. You can either use a LiveUSB for those or a different computer completely.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: Leviathan.007 on February 25, 2021, 04:16:20 PM

Everything can be hacked in this world no matter how hard you try to secure your device. You will just increase the security by some methods. I suggest you to use Ledger Nano wallet. Plus, Don't use your normal computer/mobile for storing your coins, in the case of emergency or if you don't want to spend too much money for offline wallets you can format your whole computer with Tails-OS and use it only for crypto and bitcoin stuff, nothing else. Specially, porn and adult content. Generally, use your own safe-computer if you don't want to buy a new offline wallet, otherwise I suggest you to buy a Ledger Nano.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: Ucy on February 25, 2021, 04:29:30 PM

Quote from: demanze on February 25, 2021, 10:51:29 AM

The most secure way is to store bitcoin is to learn programming, cryptography and make your own wallet ;D

Or probably just develop your own program and encryption system no one has developed before or will easily understand.
And I wouldn't consider a hardware wallet that isn't open-source/transparent as most the most secure to store Bitcoin.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: The Cryptovator on February 25, 2021, 04:36:10 PM

Quote from: TheGodson on February 25, 2021, 10:33:34 AM

I don't know why are you suggesting creating a paper wallet where OP has bought a hardware wallet and asking for a suggestion which would be safer to store his assets. Isn't a hardware wallet safer than a paper wallet? There is always a risk to get a phishing attack during generate a paper wallet.

@OP, you may use any reputed hardware wallet like Ledger or Trezor. I have been using Ledger for a long time and didn't face any issue yet even I had stored a big amount. Always keep in mind, if you can't keep safe your device, seed phrase, and private keys then you aren't safe, doesn't matter which wallet you have been using. Just secure all these things and use a hardware wallet to secure your funds.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: Momoamzad on February 25, 2021, 06:30:02 PM

I think you can use for storing that device which you do not usually use in another network like riskfull websites. Or you can format of your riskfull files. That can also harmfull for your store. You can used nano ledger for storing on device. It is safe and secured for storing your BTC and another coin.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: suzanne5223 on February 25, 2021, 07:06:41 PM

Quote from: ranochigo on February 25, 2021, 04:10:59 PM

Quote from: bitmover on February 25, 2021, 01:20:55 AM

Privilege escalation attacks are not uncommon in malware and I would certainly always assume the worst case scenario with this.

Creating two user on a computer, using live USB or chrome is not completely save and it is better to use a different computer entirely.
Having said that, chrome is not the only browser that reduce risk factor cause Mozilla firefox does either and it also increases anonymity level unlike chrome that's auto WebRTC integrated.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: LittleBitFunny on February 25, 2021, 07:08:11 PM

Using hardware wallet is good, Before installing it on your system don't forget to reset your system and setup your laptop with an updated version of OS.
If you have to visit those website then there might be possibility infected by malware. You can use antivirus but sometimes antivirus is not enough to prevent latest malware.
So, It is better to use a separate device with secure connection for your cryptocurrency. I always use two device, one for doing my daily activities and another one is for crypto and forum related work.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: isaac_clarke22 on February 25, 2021, 07:22:25 PM

Quote from: Crypto2077 on February 25, 2021, 12:30:36 AM

Well they're all hardware wallets, but since you mentioned that those devices you mentioned are infected with viruses, you're better off doing clean install with your laptop. Though it's not a malware, I would still do it for security. Or use live os.
In your smartphone, not sure if you're using Android or Apple device but I would consider either factory reset or reflashing stock rom.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: ololajulo on February 25, 2021, 07:34:42 PM

Quote from: pooya87 on February 25, 2021, 04:15:17 AM

Quote from: bitmover on February 25, 2021, 01:20:55 AM

Is it possible to hold bitcoin in a wallet and never need internet for its transaction?

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: ranochigo on February 26, 2021, 02:18:54 AM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on February 25, 2021, 07:06:41 PM

It's pretty obvious that nothing is absolutely safe and not everyone can get a new computer specifically just for a specific use. Using a LiveCD would be fairly secure in the sense that only persistent rootkits would be able to infect it. It's more of a middle ground for OP.

Chrome is better than Firefox in terms of it's malware protection due to it's design. Anonymity should not be an issue here; OP is asking for security advice, nothing about privacy. If privacy is your concern, you should be looking at a browser that is privacy oriented, ie. Tor, Brave. Firefox is not designed for privacy without any specific modifications.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: mk4 on February 26, 2021, 06:32:07 AM

Quote from: ololajulo on February 25, 2021, 07:34:42 PM

Is it possible to hold bitcoin in a wallet and never need internet for its transaction?

If you mean sending funds: you need internet connection to send out your money.

If you mean receiving funds: no, you don't need internet connection. All you need is your bitcoin address, and you can receive as much transactions as you want even if your device(computer/phone/hardware wallet) is turned off.

Not sure why you're asking this question just now though.. but yea..

https://i.imgur.com/lVMgEUZ.png

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: bitmover on February 26, 2021, 08:55:27 PM

Quote from: mk4 on February 26, 2021, 06:32:07 AM

Quote from: ololajulo on February 25, 2021, 07:34:42 PM

Is it possible to hold bitcoin in a wallet and never need internet for its transaction?

If you mean sending funds: you need internet connection to send out your money.

I know it is possible to sign a transaction in an offline environment. Then you move that singed transaction to another computer (which is online) and use that second compute just to broadcast it.

I never did it , but I know it is possible.

Then your private keys would never touch an online environment. The problem is that the USD device to move the signed transaction might be a vector as well.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: ranochigo on February 27, 2021, 11:48:49 AM

Quote from: bitmover on February 26, 2021, 08:55:27 PM

Then your private keys would never touch an online environment. The problem is that the USD device to move the signed transaction might be a vector as well.

The USB?

Using a QR code might be better for this, it's like a one-way communication and would give a true airgap setup. I think there is some limits to the size of the transaction, but that shouldn't be of a concern. If it gets too large, then you can just use multiple QR codes to stitch it together or use a different encoding. Electrum uses base43.

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: suzanne5223 on February 27, 2021, 03:23:17 PM

Quote from: ranochigo on February 26, 2021, 02:18:54 AM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on February 25, 2021, 07:06:41 PM

I agreed with you about the live C, chrome protection against malware and Firefox specific setting for privacy but Firefox don't auto save user data like chrome and it also the best browser use for VPN. Brave also auto enable WebRTC and it a project emulated from Chrome i don't trust it privacy this day when some flaw was detected.
Having said that, people can still get both privacy and security online through Firefox browser just by you install malwarebytes which will block trackers, ads, and also block malicious website/content on Firefix through the addon link (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/malwarebytes/).

Title: Re: What is the most secure device to store Bitcoin?
Post by: ololajulo on February 28, 2021, 06:49:29 PM

Quote from: pooya87 on February 25, 2021, 04:15:17 AM

This was the post that prompted the question? it was rhetoric.

Quote from: mk4 on February 26, 2021, 06:32:07 AM

Not sure why you're asking this question just now though.. but yea..

I wish you didnt attach such sarcasm. especially when you didnt read the content of the previous post.