Bitcoin Forum

After over 10 years of BTC, developers did not manage to make BTC scale.
Wtf is up with current high fees?
This sucks. Good bye.

You do realize that Bitcoin didn't have high fees since the beginning, right? It mostly only started since the 2017 bull run. Also, transaction fees are through sats, not in USD, so a higher bitcoin price would mean 'higher' transaction fees. Bitcoin simply grew too much in a short timespan than the developers lacked time, and that layer-2 solutions such as Lightning aren't THAT ready yet.

Good bye (and good riddance).
Bitcoin scales just fine. Nobody is forcing you to use it, and we really don't care if you leave.  There is no need to announce it.

Thats normal. Wait for quite some time, lightning network will change your mind once its fully up. If that's not good enough for you then feel free to buy other altcoins on the market but fees also are not that great if you choose eth related tokens. Maybe huy some on Binance smart chain projects. Bitcoin will still stay the same years from now.

What's the matter with you?
Bitcoin transaction fees are still lesser than Ethereum. Transaction fee is paid in Satoshi, you still can transfer Bitcoin by paying 12sat/byte, the time taken will be 3 hours. Do not look into the USD value, check the amount of Satoshi you are paying.

For OP, why not use the lightning network? Agree with mk4, layer 2 soon will be the solution.
And addition, there are some ways to avoid such high transaction fees, just like consolidation of your small inputs from your Bitcoin wallet, it may help to save transaction fees.
If you check the thread of LoyceV, it shows how consolidating small inputs works here: [Jan 2021] Fees are low, use this opportunity to Consolidate your small inputs! (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2848987.0).

Lightning is not the solution. It was a delaying tactic from the part of the miners to show that they are doing something to address the scalability issue. The fee in terms of Satoshis is also going up, since the user base is expanding. It is now considered normal to pay a fee of $30 or $40 for a single transaction. Within the next 3-4 years, I expect the Bitcoin prices to go up by around 5 times, and similarly the fee may go up by 10 to 50 times. So don't be surprised if you are asked to pay transaction fee in excess of $1,000 in the distant future.

The fee issue you are talking about it usually happens whenever the bitcoin transaction network gets crowded because there are more people willing to transfer their coins faster than other people and due to the nature of this network the transaction will higher fee gets confirmed faster. However, the fee are maybe high if you are only transferring a few bucks of bitcoin but if are going to transfer more than 1m bucks using bitcoin, the fee are still so good for you because you can transfer 1m dollars by paying only 10 dollars. However the fees can decrease once again when the price stays stable and we see less urgent transactions in the network.

This doesn't solve the problem, nor does it help Newbies. Bitcoin scaling is bad, high fees are bad. At the end of 2017, fees reached up to 1000 sat/byte, right before the Bitcoin price started plummeting.
I can no longer send someone $10 worth of Bitcoin to try it, and I consider that a serious shortcoming.

I use LN whenever it's accepted, but opening and closing channels also costs on-chain fees. I'm mostly using BlueWallet (custodial LN) and Phoenix Wallet (non-custodial LN) now, and both of them cover the cost of opening channels while charging only a small amount. I don't think that business model is sustainable when fees go up, and I wouldn't want to use LN when opening and closing a channel costs $50.

Bitcoin can't handle more users as long as it can't handle more transactions. All those people "trading" Bitcoin on exchanges without withdrawing to their own wallet aren't real Bitcoin users in my book.

Back in 2017 I said as a user I don't care how Bitcoin scales, as long as it does it. Segwit helpt a bit, but I think the Bitcoin price drop had a larger effect. Either way, scaling takes far too long. I'm now using shitForks for some small payments. I'd love to use Bitcoin for it, but it's not possible.
But as long as exchanges use bad practice and pay thousands of dollars on consolidation fees (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5320216.msg56443912#msg56443912), block space keeps getting wasted.

devs 2015 promise was new BITCOIN code to make bitcoin fees go back to sub penny prices.
instead they 4x legacy to make it appear their new code was cheaper(false pledge complete). meanwhile their new code increased from pennies to dollars and legacy increased even further using their multiplier.

this was not 'a make fees cheaper game' after all. it was a make old code more expensive to promote utility of new code.

this whole game of making bitcoins fee's go up is purely done to advertise other networks users should use instead that are not as secure. dont even have a blockchain. dont even have a network wide verification system. but do offer cheap fees.

its the old. dont transact with gold as thats expensive to handle. lock it up in our vaults and we will let you play with bank notes in our new banking system.

..
if a government in 2015 said they know a 1% sales tax was alot for bananas and they will make new gov policies to get that down
then in 2017 they instead made the plain banana tax 4% while offering a new govbanana brand at 1%. saying look our new govbanana is 4x cheaper.. would you buy it and accept they fulfilled their promise.
no?.. of course not

what if they then wanted you to stop handling plain real banana's and instead lock them in veg warehouses. and and play with millibanana's on a vegan only virtual market. where the millibanana transactions were 0.001% whereby you also need warehouse managers permission to get your real banana's out when you dont want to play anymore.

i personally just want my real plain banana to be able to be traded at 1% or under again.. not this gaming stuff that is trying to imply real banana's should not be held.. as thats how the gold:bank-note game was played in the 1900's. and we all know why we moved to bitcoin to escape bank-note game

Looks like someone forgot the reason alts exist as well as the Lightning Network.

While you have some BTCs, please distribute them to us. We'll take very good care of them.

Altcoins exist to be pumped and dumped so that a small group of experienced traders can empty the pocket of the newbie masses. I'm always looking for someone to change my mind (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5315116.0) with more than one reply!

You an also complain about high fees with Ethereum as well? So good BTC and Ethereum as well?

Oh wait, those two are the top crypto, and you might missed the boat in today's bull-run, that sucks.
When everyone around you is making money, you are going to be left in the closet.

If you can't take it then just leave it. I don't even think that you leaving would affect bitcoin or any crypto even a little percent. Anyways, it is just normal that bitcoin to have high fees so are the other crypto such as ETH and other crypto that are beginning to show the transaction fee increase. It is due to the traffic on the network with all the transaction caused the bull run since 2017. But we can see the transaction fee to go down after the heavy traffic and the bull run.
We must understand a lot of factors the caused the transaction fee to increase, a lot has changed ever since the fee was just cents per transaction even the price difference is also the factor of these increase.

How about sending 1 or 1000 BTC for the same fee of 0.0003 BTC. Does that seem pathetic too?
The way bitcoin works is different from the centralized money transfer services you know about. Transaction confirmation priority is based on the fee you pay at a specific time.

Yup, I won't deny that most are actively seeking profit and wealth just transfer from one to another. After all, anything tradeable are always subject to manipulation as long as whales exist.

Whether they are stocks, commodities, indices, money talks in the end ;)

It is weekend now and fees are much lower than usual, so I believe you can send Bitcoin transaction with fees under 13 sat/vB (or under $1 currently) and save on fees if you use native segwit and reduce inputs/outputs.
Developers are working on second layer solutions but scaling is not as easy as people may think and I don't think we are going to see this on Bitcoin mainnet any time soon.


I never thought I would see this coming from LoyceV, but that is the truth, I am doing the same thing, and we are all guilty as charged for that because nobody likes wasting money on fees.

I agree, it's the value that has skyrocketed, thus the transaction fee in dollars has also risen to a significant point. I understand OP's frustration though, I was also annoyed when I moved some funds from my wallet to an exchange, the fee in dollars was approximately $15 for a $300 transaction. It might not seem much in Bitcoin, but it does when we're dealing with USD.

I get your disappointment, the fees are really high, I know. There are hundreds of thousands of unconfirmed transactions and this number will continuously increase. In the future, as @Sithara007 wrote, we may see even worst fees for our transactions. I don't know if the lightning network will be the solution to this problem, but I want to hope. Otherwise, people will unsee bitcoin as a medium of exchange. It'll look more as a store-of-value asset.

Do you have any proof that the miners are actually the ones who are behind Lightning? And what actually made you immediately conclude that Lightning is not the solution? (I know they've been working on LN for a few years now, but still)

Of course there are fees whenever you are making a transaction in bitcoin but what I am trying to say is that the very high fees are kind of hard to make because imagine you will just transact a little amount of money and yet the transaction fee is way more bigger than the amount that you will transact. Just imagine that scenario, also the high fees are brought by the sudden increasing of bitcoin and other cryptocurrency so that the fees are way more higher than before.

You say "wt *", it's because you don't own bitcoins, and feel like you don't have moments that you don't find there. I think what's to blame when bitcoin fees are high? isn't this worth the privilege. Imagine 10 years and you just woke up. If you were acquainted with bitcoin 10 years ago, then you would not say it was expensive, because the price was not what it is today. So where do you find the error?

Just as the rise in the price of bitcoin, there is rise in the transaction fee. If we compare the present transaction fee in terms of bitcoin with the past years, then it looks almost similar in value. Only the value calculation in terms of USD have increased. Rise in the transaction fee restrict bitcoin to be used on mainstream services.

Bitcoin fee is really high we barely feel it because the value is dropping before so we feel that our fees in bitcoin now is high , in this time the people who benefits the most in the bitcoin fess that are very high are the miners , in every block created they will have a benefits so it will good for them , we should endure and be familiar with this thing because this is normal and we cannot stop it.

Not a Lightning fanboy here, but have been quite open to it more and more (recognising of course the issues raised simply be taking things off chain) and seeing it actually being used well enough in practice just makes me more warm towards the idea but...

what makes you think this was a tactic from the miners? What could they possibly gain from encouraging an off-chain solution that ghosts their on-chain fees away?

Mate Just like you I'm also disappointed with these expensive fees, In both Bitcoin and Ethereum but we can't do anything about it. I think most of us the small-scale users and traders are the most affected by these expensive fees and Instead of leaving why just look for something that fits your needs temporarily, just return to Bitcoin and Ethereum if the transaction fees were normalized. I think it is a better solution than to leave because thats what I'm doing now in the meantime.

BTC transaction fees are mostly tolerable, it's only when the bull run happens, naturally, the txn fees grow. Also, you can still pay low transaction fees if you want to, you know that, right?
I usually look at transactions mempool on this website (https://bitcoinfees.earn.com/) to decide the perfect time/money ratio, when I don't want to overpay, but, at the same time, I don't want my transaction to take ages to be confirmed. Don't give up so easily :D

And people are way too impatient? Among all of the positive side aspects of BTC but still they are trying to elaborate its Con's on that severe manner without even thinking
that fees could really subside if the network congestion had gone away.Its not actually a problem though as to speak but people are way too meticulous on things
that should really be perfect.It might have its con's or flaws but doesnt mean that it wont be capable or do able to meet up your expections.

Sooner or later that Lightning network would be finalized and would be adopted.

Bye, probably you have sold at the bottom of this correction or haven't packed up before the bull run. Well, it's not really high if you're calculating it in sats but let's be real that once we calculate it in USD, it's somehow high and unacceptable. But every transaction happens and being paid in sats and not in USD. To solve it, don't transact if you're just sending pennies to someone or to exchanges. Much better to accumulate your transaction and save it first to make the fees worth it as you send.

Although I agree the transaction fees for bitcoin transactions is rather high, I believe it is absolutely normal that the transaction fee of bitcoin is high. However, as high as it is, you'd realize that it is even low than Ethereum transaction fee
You can actually pay low transaction fee for bitcoin transactions by choosing the regular fee rather than the priority fees. You'd just have to wait for a very long time for your transactions to be confirmed

At the moment, how much does it cost to send btc in a transaction now on average?  What is the lowest fee could you use now if you adjusted it on nano ledger s or electrum now?

It all depends on the timing. Yesterday one of my transactions got confirmed in just around 1 hour, although I paid a very low fee (13.1 Sat/Byte or BTC0.000028). You need to be alert if you don't want to splurge too much on the fee. Mempool sometimes get crowded and at some other times it may be mostly empty. I used the website https://mempool.space/ to calculate my fee, as it is relatively easy. At this point, a fee of 11 Sat/Byte can get you an almost instant confirmation. I don't have any issues in waiting for 2-3 days, so that the fee gets lower. But if you can't wait until the Mempool gets empty, then there is no choice other than to pay a very high fee.

OP the quoted statement above is the summary of everything you need to know why we're currently in this mess right now. Now we just have to give the developers time to come out with some simple solution that can be widely accepted by the general public.

Be rest assured this won't stay this way forever because if it doesn't then people would start losing interest in the technology and the developers are aware of this which is why new solution are been throw into the community often for feedback.

We have tried SegWit addresses and lighting network, soon a more adoptable solution would be launched. For the moment you can make use of of already existing not so perfect solution and enjoy lower fees than using legacy addresses for transactions.