Bitcoin Forum

I heard on a podcast that over a billion dollars in leveraged funds was lost with margin calls today as a result of the price drop.

I am surprised that so many people are taking such dangerously leveraged positions. History always repeats itself for those who have not yet learned the great lesson of Zhou Tong.

When you trade BTC using leverage, it is only a matter of time before you get Zhou-Tonged.

Enjoy.

https://youtu.be/kdvTkddp1F0

At first I didn’t understand what the hell is Zhuo Tong? So I Googled but found nothing except https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhou_Tong_(archer)
So started reading it... his history family and then fiction it thought may I’m so dumb I’m getting the point here.

Then had to come to you post and watch YouTube video (didn’t focus on the lyrics) and skimmed through... wait a minute I think I heard Bitcoin somewhere. Damn it read the lyrics in the description hahahaha

Laughing out so hard... awesome and that master piece is 9 years old from 2012.

Well I’m really bad at trading, I’m mostly a HODLer stuff so this term “leverage” went over my head.

So I can I never been Zhou Tonged yet.

Its a zero sum game I'm always hearing, someone elses gain with those leveraged calls.    Volatility is definitely not dead, a price rising this fast just fits into that theme but it has to pull back by quite a margin to stay a reasonable market which is what I expect.   Its bad news short term perhaps but we require mixed markets to be valid so I remain bullish over the long term and I hope I'm active enough to sell some of the higher prices buy some of the lower prices.
  Dont use margin, most of us arent Gordon Gecko and we have to go sleep and leaving any trade open with borrowed money is super risky.   

Ahh yes, Bitcoinica.  That was a fun place while it lasted :)

I only lost like 120 btc through bitcoinica. Thankfully, it taught me how much of a failure bitcoin is and I later was lucky to get rid of all bitcoin and safely store value in less volatile stock and low interest savings accounts.

Only Proudhon could be happy about losing over $6,5M

Thanks for the small piece of history I wasn't around for. Was Bitcoinica really the first to offer leverage?

P.S. CoinJar was next for him, wonder what then.

P.P.S. What fascinated me was how people in with Chinese names who got into tech would switch their names around -- or was that the media who do that?

On his website, for example, it's Zhou Tong, but on Crunchbase, he's Tong Zhou. Same as Chang Peng Zhou... who would actually be Zhou Chang Peng in Asia... or is his CZ moniker just cause he's Canadian?

P.P.P.S. I never Zhou Tonged on crypto, or even tried. But there was a fair amount of degeneracy in the noughties for those old enough to remember 300:1 standards on forex brokers giving out free $5 to $50 to get you hooked on the cocaine of margin trading. And I humbly admit to having snorted.

@proudhon wow you're so lucky to store value in low interest savings account. Let me know next time you want to lose 120 btc. I'll trade you my high interest govt bond.

I've no idea who Zhou Tong is, but I do know the danger of using too much leverage when investing.  I've referenced Long Term Capital Management (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-Term_Capital_Management) in a number of posts over the years when this subject comes up, so it's not just crypto traders and idiots who get themselves into trouble by over-leveraging their investments.  Professionals can and do make that same mistake.

I don't know about margin calls, but some bitcoin buyers had much the same trouble in 2017 when they were maxing out their credit cards to buy it, and I'm sure if there were exchanges offering margin trading back then that people were doing stupid things that caused them to lose money when December of that year rolled around.

Going to sleep with a short position is probably more of an insomnia-inducer than using margin, but either way I get your point.

I clicked No, as majority of the poll'ers' did. I rarely trade and even if I did, I would be very conscious when taking any sort of leveraged positions that puts me at a much higher risk.

Yup, they were the first to offer leverage or any sort of short-selling for BTC.  All the orders went through MtGox, and all the funds were stored there as well as I understand it.  So when MtGox went under, it took Bitcoinica down with it.

Aside on that Zhou tonged thing then i dont really able to get it up in the first read up until i do realize on what are those things been mentioned about.
Generally in talks of Leverage then this isnt something that noobs should really be getting on engagement.Dont play with fire because comparing it
to spot trading then this is way more riskier but somewhat profitable if things turns out to be good on your side.Its just people do find it appealing
because of the probabilities on making money with just some simple or low percentage swings without even thinking on whats
the equalled risk of it.

Anyone trying to 'trade' Bitcoin deserves to loose their money. This is such an extremely volatile commodity that leveraging off of it is a sure loose.

The only way anyone gets anything out of Bitcoin is HODL like a Hong Kong beggar.