Bitcoin Forum

Is this the most anonymous way? Buy bitcoin from any exchange. Convert it to monero, send monero to a wallet, and from the wallet swap or exchange it for bitcoin?

Is that basically a way to anonimize your bitcoin? If you buy from most exchanges, they have your info. But once it goes through monero, no one can see anything about where it goes. So when it's traded for bitcoin on your wallet, that could have came from anywhere. There isn't really a way to say where those funds came from right?

I'll probably just skip the exchange.

Converting your Bitcoins to altcoins is usually done through an intermediary, usually an exchange which has to collect data for KYC/AML purposes. Even if you use Monero, you'll still have to convert it to Bitcoin at some point which would be through an exchange.

Instead, I'll use a P2P method (slightly more risky but way more privacy) and skip the whole exchange part. Just use a mixer or CoinJoin to break/obfuscate the link and you'll be better.

I'm thinking like on the safepal wallet. You can exchange crypto there, but there is no KYC.

Why don't you skip the first part then? Why don't you just buy monero and then convert it to bitcoin? (If you're able of buying monero of course)

But there's a better way to anonymize your bitcoins. Mix them! I don't believe that there's a better way than CoinJoining them with max anonymity and then sending them to a high rated mixer. You leave the least footprints you can leave. The best thing you should do next, after you've mixed them, is to never leave any footprints. A footprint can be an address search on a block explorer, where you're revealing that you want to know the balance of that address to the block explorer and to your ISP. Another example of footprint is importing the address to an SPV wallet (like electrum). In that case, you reveal your address on the electrum server(s) you're connected. Running a bitcoin node covers that part.

Use truly DEX marketplaces to help you buy bitcoin anonymously
https://hodlhodl.com/
https://bisq.network/

Furthermore, you need use Wasabi wallet to help you stay anonymous: https://wasabiwallet.io/. This wallet connect to Tor and has Coin Join transactions.

I was gonna say that I know there are two ways to earn Cryptocurrencies anonymously and that is through Mining and claiming them in Faucets. I know its one of the earliest way to earn Cryptocurrencies but because you are doing it alone, nobody knows that you are earning them and creating a mining rig is very profitable if done right. Faucets are becoming obsolete this days but if you are down to do things with repetition, you can find ways to do it by yourself and I believe that is a way to earn Crypto's anonymously.

A few ideas,

Buy a hardware wallet and get it sent to a Post Office Box or similar so that only
a name and not a residential address is known.

Buy Bitcoin either with PayPal funds, P2P and/or Bitcoin ATM, ok fees will be an
issue but it could be a compromise for anonymity?

Solo-mining will give fresh and untraceable coins, I'm with you about this as the most anonymous way, but if the coins are old with a big history you can always use a mixer service to put them on an untraceable wallet.

If OP uses Monero and a exchange, the coins still traceable because the exchange register the operation even if the Monero Blockchain hides all the information, the exchange will have a user, mail, and IP for that transaction, so, that way isn't anonymous at all.

I guess mining can be the way? You can mine your own bitcoin, and with that no one will know your identity. Or well maybe just like you said, go through some series of process, to get rid of your mark. But of course, it will be really complicated.
And I think, we don't need that much of anonymity in owning bitcoin, it's quite anonymous already, and I think the data is safe. Only if you don't purposely do that because you want to do bad things with it of course haha, doing it in the normal way is fine and safe enough already.

1. Buy bitcoin from a peer-to-peer exchange such as HodlHodl[1] or LocalCryptos[2].
2. Coinjoin/mix the bitcoin through services such as Wasabi[3], Samourai Whirlpool[4], or ChipMixer[5]. (which is the "best" is subjective.

---

[1] https://hodlhodl.com/
[2] https://localcryptos.com/
[3] https://wasabiwallet.io/
[4] https://samouraiwallet.com/whirlpool
[5] https://chipmixer.com/

The most anonymous way is to buy it with cash in person. But this is also quite risky, due to physical attacks. So if you want to go this way, you should be buying small amounts over some period of time from different sellers, and make sure that you aren't followed back to your home.

Any digital fiat payment will leave a trace, even in your example the fact that you bought crypto is already bad for your anonymity.

Here's how I'd do it:

1. Purchase Bitcoin through an ATM or an exchange and mixing/CoinJoining the purchased funds. Main disadvantage of this option is that you risk having your face screenshotted by the ATM machine and the exchange will hold identifiable information of you.
2. Purchase BTC through Bisq. Main disadvantage is the little bit high fees.
3. Purchase BTC p2p face-to-face. Main disadvantage is personal safety. Also, for large sums, I would consider the person I'm conducting business with might be authority personnel.

If I had to choose among the 3 above, I'd opt for the 2nd or 3rd option. Using third parties means sharing personal information with them (and other parties) and I don't want to comply with that.

Thanks for the replies. Mining is a no go for me due to not having the equiment and it becoming prohibitivly expensive.

But the bitcoin mixer ideas should work.


I've started out using bitcoin ATMs that dont require ID, just a number. But the fees are atrocious even for the cheapest ones I can find compared to online exchanges.

Yeah I've thought about peer to peer I've just been kind of worried about getting defrauded or something happening.

I'd figure even if you buy from an exchange, convert it to monero, or yes as someone pointed out, just buying monero to start with if that's possible, and sending it to then trade for bitcoin would be just as good as other methods.

" A footprint can be an address search on a block explorer, where you're revealing that you want to know the balance of that address to the block explorer and to your ISP."
Thanks for mentioning this. I may have don goofed already on that one.


Also... "even if the Monero Blockchain hides all the information, the exchange will have a user, mail, and IP for that transaction, so, that way isn't anonymous at all."

So the exchange can see where you sent monero, and from there, when you exchange monero for bitcoin even when done off from the exchange on another platform?

As far as I know, DEX provides more privacy that is very guarded, you only need to have an anonymous hardware wallet, without you using an email login. As for P2P, it will still involve your identity because it is still within the scope of the market, it is a little anonymous, but DEX is much more anonymous.

Anonymity and privacy goes hand in hand with Bitcoin. If there is breach in your anonymity then you are not dealing with bitcoin. With rise of bitcoin so many centralized institutes have also jumped into crypto market and they are destroying the concept of anonymity and privacy designed by Satoshi.

Safepal has a Binance Dapp which is kinda good at first glance since it's non-custodial. The mobile app, however, is closed source so you can never tell if they're not collecting any information from you.

You can't be completely anonymous if your starting point is buying any crypto online using fiat.

I know 3 pretty good ways to get Bitcoin anonymously.
1. Mixers. Although it's unexpected by many, ChipMixer is for free (although paying some extra helps with extra privacy).
2. Sell or offer services directly for bitcoin. For example I've made translations and only the customer knows that address of mine.
3. Buying bitcoin P2P, just beware of scams (for example don't pay before getting at least one confirmation). Again, only the seller and maybe a trusted escrow will know the address.

I will do the same.
Buy bitcoin using p2p > send the coins to a mixer > Receive the coins from the mixer while using a tor connection

Never load the wallet without TOR connection.

There is always a point where you are going to trust the mixer/coinjoin service. I think using wasabi coinjoin this trust can be broken but it will cost you a price of course.

I agree about using mixers, they're one of the choice to make yourself anonymous.

Yes, there's a fee of 0.003% per anonymity set.

https://docs.wasabiwallet.io/FAQ/FAQ-UseWasabi.html#coinjoin

You do not have to (physically) trade directly with someone and go through the risk of sending first and waiting for your payment, there are P2P platforms which acts as intermediary (sort of an escrow). They protect you from the risk of fraud, ensure you're using a reputable and trustworthy website.

The blockchain is transparent and transactions can be linked, you'll also need another exchange to convert the monero to Bitcoin, further reducing privacy.

P2P is the best way to anonymously own Bitcoin. I have a friend of mine who likes to own some Bitcoin but wants privacy, so I just simply tell him that P2P transactions are the best way for that. Before the pandemic, I have witnessed some P2P transactions in various areas, where they are doing it with Ledger Nano S or non-custodial decentralized Bitcoin wallet. Both parties must agree to the terms, especially that you will remain an anonymous Bitcoin wallet holder.

Yeah and considering the current BTC value in USD it turns out a lot even if you go with a single BTC.

I normally use Chipmixer. Long time ago I tried wasabi and it seemed a long for the highest number of anonymity set. I was playing with the setup at that time. BTC price and mempool congestion was too low at that time.

I'm sure op is not asking about mining, he is asked how anyone can get BTC stayed as anonymous, It is not possible for everyone who wants to remain anonymous to start mining Bitcoin.
The simplest way is buy Bitcoin and use a mixer to mix your coin. If you use Chipmixer then they will give you an equivalent amount of chips before you make your deposit, so you will able to stay anonymous cause no one will find the relation between your chips and deposits.

The exchange only knows the address you have withdrawn your Moneros to. If you have a personal XMR address and you move your exchange funds to it, they'll know. But as soon as you move away your funds from your personal XMR address towards another one, things will go dark. All the exchange knows now aboht you is your withdrawal and that's it.

If you're looking for as much anonymity and privacy as possible, Monero might be a better solution for you instead. With Bitcoin, the smallest mistake you make could always turn into the reveal of your entire financial history.

Well, anything will go into the dark and can't able to trace if all of these did not collect your personal identity.
But why make things more complicated if you can use the bitcoin mixer service to mix your bitcoin. The same as a story that I heard from my friend that he used mixer service and he mixed his bitcoin twice and transfer it to his cold storage wallet. He told the bitcoin was comes from a dirty hand and that is why he used twice the bitcoin mixer to hide and increase his anonymity. However, all suggestion above was right and your plan is slightly safe for me but still vulnerable one.

Well, using an exchanger will give some hint who you are as they are asking some basic information about you. though it won't directly be pointing you out that you are holding Bitcoin since you are converting it to Monero or any altcoins. However, this never gives you the fullest anonymity. The best thing we do to keep anonymous is to use mixer services, they never ask anything from you and they don't bother to dig who you are.

Mining is the best way to own bitcoin in an anonymous manner. This isn't possible with everyone, because it requires more capital investment to set-up mining farm. There are people who run home miners, but that too requires capital. One can own bitcoin anonymously buying from users through our forum or some other sources exchanging gift cards that can be redeemed.

I mean, while it's not the option that everyone is going to end up using(obviously because it's going to require a good chunk of time and money), the reason why people are recommending it because it's truly one of the best options when talking about anonymity.

Thanks for the reccomendation on the mixer service. I'll def look into that.

I'm still slightly confused on converting from bitcoin to monero, and sending monero to an address, if you convert with the wallet, like safepal has an exchange thing on there. No need to give any sort of info about yourself. you receive monero, then convert to bitcoin that has a new address. you guys are saying the original exchange where you bought bitcoin and converted to monero, can see where you sent the monero? I thought anything past the receiving address of monero can't be seen? Not sure.

I'll check the mixer, maybe it will be cheaper than all the sending and converting transaction fees.

I think it's kind of a waste of money to actually buy Bitcoin then convert to Monero then convert to Bitcoin again. You could just buy Monero instead then convert it to Bitcoin instead, in that way you could own a Bitcoin then use a mixer to really stay anonymous. But the truth is you are not actually totally anonymous since your Bitcoin is still written on the blockchain, thus your Bitcoin wallet address could be available everywhere if someone knew your Bitcoin wallet address.

Fees aren't that much before because the price of bitcoin wasn't that high.

But this time, we will think about it first if you want to set into higher anonymity using wasabi's coinjoin. And either of two, chipmixer and wasabi's coinjoin.

Both are the best choices to add more anonymity for our tx's.

For all I know since I was trading, the only way to anonymise Bitcoin is if you mined it or have claimednit using faucets which is not that productive anymore. I haven’t seen any decent faucets nowadays and you have to spend a lot to mine the amount of Bitcoin you want to accumulate.

exchanges will ask for KYC which makes you not anonymous already.

what you can do is buy BTC from someone outside the exchanges like from someone here in the forum through the exchange subforum.  there are however many scammers there which you just have to pick which and who is reputable enough to deal with who are selling their BTC for PayPal. after you have some BTC already, you can then trade on DEX which makes you anonymous while trading.

Exchange?
Well I believe they're putting up KYC policies so that's not so anonymous.
You'll need to use a mixer, just like what majority mentioned in here.
Avoid online wallets as much as you can if you're still aiming for anonymity.

The most anonymous way to own bitcoin is to not put it on an exchange! Make a anonymous wallet, go to an BTC machine to swap Fiat for BTC, keep the BTC on hardware wallet.   Reverse the proces if you wanna swap BTC for fiat again.

Actually, you don't need to convert your Bitcoin to monero just for it to be anonymous. You could have just use a mixer, or perhaps a P2P (which is kinda risky to deal with), buying on exchanges that do not require KYC like DEX would also be an option. Converting your Bitcoin to monero back into Bitcoin again, I think that process alone would spend a pretty decent amount of fee so you don't want to do that unless you are okay with it.So yeah just like what the majority saying mixer service could perfectly fit your case.

Mining is correct, but how easy is to mine this days than in the past? Am a total -Newbie- at mine but every know it's rigorous right now, mining and the competition, money required for power/energy makes it a discouraging source to earn bitcoin in anonymity, and I can choose to be anonymous for my own many reasons, protection/privacy is one.

You could face some problems depending how much Bitcoin you're buying from exchanges, most exchanges need you to complete KYC if you are withdrawing more than 2BTC per day, but if the amount is lower than that you can just buy from one of the centralized ones and then withdraw BTC to your personal wallet.

One of the most decentralized ways of buying/trading Bitcoin without having to deal with centralized exchanges is to buy Wbtc which is basically Bitcoin on ethereum network, that way not only you can hold your Bitcoin in your own Ethereum wallet, you can also trade it whenever you want on one of the decentralized platforms like Uniswap but the fees for ethereum network are really high at the moment so if you're buying/trading less than ~$3k it's not a very optimal solution.

One other way is to buy from trusted exchangers that do not require any KYC or even registration in some cases but almost all of them have higher fees comparing to exchanges, around 1% of what the total transaction is worth, you can check https://www.bestchange.com/ (https://www.bestchange.com/) for the list of the exchangers, but make sure your read users reviews and do a little test buy with smaller amount first.

I go with the Mixers since it's easy to use and no hassle or whatsoever and I prefer the one that has been there for a long time and that has some good reviews from its user. I think the OP way is quite good as well because you completely hide if you do that step but for me, I don't mind using some Bitcoin Mixers or Blenders if I wanted to move my BTC. especially those people who are holding lots of BTC in their wallets because they won't know that they might be watch and their transaction is being traced in the dark.

If you really want to be anonymous in some way in order to own or earn a bitcoin is just buy a bitcoin then send it to another wallet by using bitcoin mixer so that the address will not be able to trace then send it back to your main and own wallet. Another thing is that coinbase. Coinbase is producing a multi address wallet in which you can use and chance different address in order for you to be not trackable. Today I am using both so that my anonymity will be unknown always.

Bitcoin is not anonymous, but rather pseudo-anonymous - most veterans of the Bitcoin community know this. However, most people do not understand why Bitcoin cannot be called anonymous and how a Bitcoin user can be identified - and what can be done to prevent this from happening.

There are three main ways to reveal the identity of Bitcoin users.

First of all, although transactions are randomly transmitted over a P2P network, this system is not completely sealed. If an attacker, for example, has the ability to connect multiple nodes to the Bitcoin network, the information they collect may be enough to determine the source of a particular transaction.

Secondly, a Bitcoin address can be associated with specific people if their personal information was somehow associated with such a Bitcoin address. This includes addresses used for deposits or withdrawals from a regulated exchange or wallet, publicly available donation addresses, or simply addresses used to send bitcoins using personal information (for example, an online store payment).

But most importantly, all transactions on the Bitcoin network are completely transparent to anyone interested. This allows multiple Bitcoin addresses to be linked and assigned to a specific user. Thus, if only one of these linked addresses is tied to a specific person in one of the ways described above, all addresses will be de-anonymized.

You can buy btc in binance even without Kyc, though there is a limit to buy and withdraw but not doing kyc will serve as an anonymous transaction. Or if you are familiar with bitcoin mixer so you should not be worry with your identification and without the hassle of exchanging it into other coins, then it is better.

I don't think exchanging it into different coins and then back to bitcoin is untraceable but as I suggested, you can consider the btc mixer.

Buy Bitcoin to the exchanger that doesn't ask KYC, then use mixer services to finally send it to your controlled wallet for a long-term holding. I believe nobody could trace you.

But I'm just to wonder why we have to do that? Why we should have to keep anonymous all the time? Are we afraid that someone knows who we are or hackers will never attack us? Maybe it was a big concern for you OP but for me, as long as my wallet keys are safe, I don't need to have that anonymous anymore.

Most anonymous way to own Bitcoin is if you mine it yourself with a miner and you never connect that address with your identity.

You can use websites like Chipmixer to mix your Bitcoin with other people, and using some p2p trading would also be good or decentralized exchanges like Bisq.

You lost all your anonymity the moment you touch your address with your bank account or with kyc documentation on exchanges.

As many other members have mentioned in this thread, Coin Mixing sab coin joining is the safest and most anonymous way to have privacy when transacting using bitcoin. Bitcoin is not completely anonymous, bitcoin transactions made will still be detected and can be traced to where the asset will end. But by using Coin mixing or coin joining, the transaction will be split and mixed with thousands of existing transactions and it will be difficult to trace.

However, some of the disadvantages that Coinmixing or coinjoining have are if the participant's transactions are still few and it is very easy to trace, but if there are many participant transactions that reach thousands then it will be very difficult.

I still don't understand what you are really asking here 'lol'...
you asked 'the most anonymous way to own bitcoin?' but why want to change it to Monero, do you mean to be anonymous? If you want to be an anonymous Bitcoin owner then you have to buy Bitcoin on a decentralized p2p exchange then store your Bitcoin in a non-custodian wallet like Electrum. cmiiw

This is the best way I think to own bitcoin anonymously but I don't think that it is necessary to do that unless you are running away from something, I mean if you reason that it is for privacy purposes, I would only believe that if you are off the grid and your name doesn't come out of the registry in your country which is going to be difficult especially if you were born in a hospital or you have applied for a job and if you do so then the chances that your important details are already out there.

Chipmixer is cheaper than Wasabi.

Maybe first Chipmixer and then use lower anonymity in Wasabi for the mixed coins. This way at least you can save some by not using the higher anonymity but still you get your chain broken by two mixers which is makes your coin more anonymous.

That's a method that anyone can do if he's not satisfied that he just used one of it.

But for me any of them with just a single just would be enough unless you're fine with the fees. The fee may not that be much for higher transactions but as bitcoin soars, the fees are somehow becoming considerably high.

chipmixer, is it some kind of chip for gaming?  or what?  all I know is getting bitcoin and being anonymous just from fucet, nothing more.  but many people and make bitcoin purchases to be anonymous I think buying via p2p by buying other coins and changing to bitcoin, sorry if I'm wrong

Not for gaming but analogy is correct. Chip like casino chip. You trade banknote marked by serial number for non marked casino chip. Then you trade casino chip for another banknote making your transaction non visible at blockchain.

Most of the replies already answered the question which is using a bitcoin mixer or a tumbler to mix or clean your coins and make it untraceable in a way. Another thing that you can do to own a bitcoin with a degree of anonymity is you have to stop talking about it because once you talk about owning it then it is already known to the people around you that you are owning a bitcoin.

Mixing pretty much taints the coins more than cleaning them. To exchanges and services, "tainted" means coins that have a suspicious history behind. Cleaning your coins is quite hard, so is making them untraceable. Mixing and coinjoining is usually considered tainting.

Talking about you owning BTC leaks as much information as owning XMR or fiat does. All you're telling is that you own some coins - nobody knows how many and where they are currently sitting.

There is no way you'd do this without going through an exchange. Even if you convert it to Monero from an exchange, you'd still need an exchange to convert it back to bitcoin.
personally, I do think that the most anonymous way of buying bitcoin is P2P, Peer to Peer. There is no need to register on an exchange for this which means no one is collecting your data. All you need is to find someone who is willing to sell coins, calculate its equivalence in whatever fiat currency you're using to make the transaction, and then send your wallet address to the person and you pay up in cash.
This is practically the most anonymous way to buy bitcoin as there is no exchange of data.

Instead of quoting you can PM user ChipMixer (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1003345).

You may need the session ID and remember the session ID is valid for 7 days I guess. Anyway, contact with chipmixer.

This issue has been resolved. ChipMixer is excellent service.

If you just want to clean it then it wouldn't need to be on monero it could be any alt-coin or you could just simply use a mixer to do it.
If you want you could also try some crypto exchange that swaps automatically changenow.io buy any alt-coin from any exchange then use changenow to convert it to BTC and receive directly to your chosen BTC wallet.

The most anonymous way today (but not the most quick and cheap) is to buy mining rig or several videocards and to put them to mine BTC then you’ll get coins directly on your wallet. In such way you’ll be totally anonymous until the day you would decide to withdraw your cryptocoins through crypto exchange market to get some fiat money.

In this case, the mining installation must be installed somewhere in a place inaccessible to humans. Doesn't the consumption of electricity, that is, a large amount of it, give out the miner?
It seems to me that today there are still no such obstacles to purchase bitcoins anonymously and subsequently use mixers.

There are several ways to buy Bitcoin without anyone knowing. There are several Apps that you can buy it. These Apps doesn't need your information. It just your backup pass phrase; you are there.

In order for this to work, you should use exchange which is shady - unregulated and do not gather your data. Even if they say that they dont gather your data, do not request your id, they can lie and ask for it anyway. Also these kind of exchanges are dangerous, they can easily freeze your funds and steal them.

Not all the exchanges have the KYC requirements (especially for lower amounts). But when you deposit fiat cash in to your exchange account, it creates a trail. You can go for P2P platforms, where the communication between buyer and seller are encrypted. You need to deposit cash in to seller's bank account and he will transfer BTC to your account. In this method, if you directly go to a cash deposit machine and make the deposit, then the entire process will be 100% anonymous. On the other hand, if you make the bank transfer online, again it leaves a trail.

Bitcoin was protecting data of its users through privacy untill government and Centralised exchanges introduced the use of  KYC. KYC is not even required by some exchanges if you're withdrawing less than 2 BTC per day in most cases. The only way to stay anonymous through bitcoin transaction is to use mixers or DEX and P2P though very risky.

This is what My friend doing to keep him anonymous for long time . but eventually he accepted that there is no permanently anonymity here in crypto.
because one way or another? we will reveal ourselves for a certain reason.
Trust me mate , If you go long time here , you will accept the fact that when talking about Money , there is no permanent anonymity .

There are two ways to secure your identity, one is through mining, the other is through LocalBitcoins. LocalBitcoins are a peer-to-peer platform, meaning that they allow buyers and sellers to trade directly. As a result, it is possible to trade anonymously. Once you have completed a trade on LocalBitcoins, you can then transfer your coins to an anonymous Bitcoin wallet. Mining, as we all know requires a lot of energy but you'll receive bitcoins directly. I personally believe that there is no true anonimity when it comes to crypto since you will be swapping or exchanging coins one way or another which requires your wallet address or sometimes your information.

Localbitcoins used to be an anonymous way to purchase Bitcoins and I got my first BTC in 2012 using LBTC. But times have changed and nowadays they have very strict KYC requirements. On top of that I have heard that every now and then they pass the information regarding their users to the tax authorities. So think twice before undergoing KYC process in LocalBitcoins. Mining is an attractive option, but you need a lot of capital for that.

Do you know how much op want to trade in the peer to peer exchange? Do to you know if he's trying to buy amount of btc that would require KYC and that's non anonymous to say,
There's nothing like anonymous bitcoin wallet, every Bitcoin balance is transparent, so long as your coin is in bitcoin, it's no longer anonymous.

Electricity, heat and the mining machine you have to invest in. Would not be hardly viable for individuals especially with limited room space and ventilation.

Only mining farms would continue to profit from this.