Bitcoin Forum

There's hardly anyone here who has fought for Bitcoin as hard as I did and traded it as much as I did.

For me Bitcoin represented Freedom, but when I took on the national President and the Euro currency and told them I'd go citizenship less and stop using banks it became evident that there is no way to use Bitcoin without the Banks and the government.

You can't use the Bitcoin ATM, s without ID and Banks, you can't convert Bitcoin into cash or use it directly with a debit card without the government and banks.

Now one way, and one way only is to trade Bitcoin for cash, this is the only way that the government and banks couldn't control Bitcoin.

Now besides freedom this is the real reason I am gravitating away from Bitcoin, is that I didn't get help fron the people that I fought for.

There wasn't a single person in the Bitcoin community who was helping me when I did seven days without eating.

The idea that I was standing for something called Freedom was an illusion.

But besides that Bitcoin also had perks over bank transfer like Faster transaction times and lower fees.

Which have both become inferior to banks as well.

This seems like a government overreach issue more than a bitcoin issue no? I agree with you that bitcoin and all crypto should be about financial freedom, however I would argue its the state's fault we don't have freedom in bitcoin anymore, and that is very unfortunate. My main portfolio is still bitcoin, but I've been moving more and more into Monero for these reasons.

The main selling point for me with bitcoin was holding something that was deflationary. Cash held on a bank used to be because they'd pay you more in interest than the going inflation rate but now banks just seem to want to lend or charge people to put funds in there.

Banks here don't charge fees on transactions and debit and credit cards normally charge 0.3% or don't get accepted by many places. The same is probably going to be seen with cryptocurrency unless only large powers own them (like banks and governments).

You can find people that will accept crypto in exchange for goods such as land but you'll still need ID - I don't know why government supervision was deemed to you like it was going to go away if they didn't have banks anymore (you're still ruled by your government).

If I understand you correctly, you think Bitcoin is trash because your bank wants to see your ID to let you open an account there and nobody in the community here gave you money?

It sounds like your problems stem from something other than Bitcoin.

There is no way to use fiat without the banks and the government, you mean.

You can't use a bitcoin ATM without an ID because you are trading to fiat. You can't use a centralized exchange without an ID when you are trading to fiat. You can't use a bitcoin debit card without a bank because you are paying in fiat. Meanwhile, I can buy goods and services for bitcoin without ever touching a bank, without ever revealing my ID, and with the government having no knowledge of the transaction. I can transfer money to friends abroad, I can gift money to relatives, I can sell goods and services for bitcoin, I can work or hire people for bitcoin, etc., all without a bank or government.

If you are going to convert your bitcoin back in to fiat whenever you want to spend it, then of course you are going to be at the mercy of the fiat banking system and all their rules and regulations. If you want to avoid this, then spend bitcoin directly.

The problem here is that you are mixing the use of Bitcoin with Government controlled services such as bank and fiat, so they will definitely ask you for Identification.
Try to transfer you Bitcoin to anyone in the world from your noncustodial wallet and see if they will ask you for any ID.


Is there a bank that will let you transfer $5M for a fee of less than $5?

Bitcoin represents freedom?

HELLO BUD, THE CENTRAL BANKERS CAN BUY ALL THE MINERS AND COINS. THERE IS NO FREEDOM. YOU ARE STILL A SLAVE.

working on a coin we all mine at the same rate, it will be true freedom and render bitcoin and fiat back to there true value of 0.

You always can use it as many payment methods and marketplaces to buy and sell bitcoin, with cash, with bank transfer, with gift cards and many other methods.

Bitcoin ATM is not the unique method to buy or sell bitcoin. Why do you need debit card to use bitcoin? You can use bitcoin to pay for many things. Not all but you will have more ways to use your bitcoin. Buying Tesla electric cars in near future.

How CBDCs Give ‘Absolute Control’ to Central Banks (https://www.coindesk.com/podcasts/coindesk-podcast-network/cbdcs-give-central-banks-absolute-control). CBDCs will be created because banks and governments are trying to adapt to changes and evolution from bitcoin and blockchain technology.

There's a treatment for what you suffer from.  It involves heavy metals.

You have deviated from the main point of creation of Bitcoin.
Bitcoin is designed as decentralized so that you do not have to borrow from any financial institution for your transactions.
This is the main purpose of Bitcoin, If you want to use this decentralized platform you just need a wallet and Bitcoin balance. As Wallets are 100% free and noncustodial, So, you just need to have Bitcoin balance now.

To get Bitcoin balance you can Buy Bitcoin P2P by spending your cash, No one will ask for your Identification if you use P2P service.
On the other hand, you can get BTC by getting paid in Bitcoin, you will find many online working platforms where Employers are hiring peoples for Bitcoin, most of them will never ask you for KYC.

If this is what makes you steer off away from Bitcoin, then you're heavily HEAVILY misinformed. What makes Bitcoin interesting it's is predictable supply schedule, and the fact that you can't be censored.

I get your point with the bitcoin<->fiat rails being a problem concerning privacy, but this is a problem with the current financial platforms, and definitely NOT a problem concerning Bitcoin. It's like putting all the blame on Activision because your old crappy Pentium Dual-Core computer couldn't run Call of Duty: Warzone

It's like you are wishing to use Bitcoin without getting in between banks and the government. Take note that the standard medium of exchange we use is fiat, and it is under the government's control. I guess you are yearning for a different extent of freedom here.

And yet you don't seem to even know what bitcoin is!

This has nothing to do with bitcoin! It is the problem with your centralized fiat and everything built on top of it.
The problem is also because you are treating bitcoin as an investment in "trading". It is obvious that you will be subjected to centralization when you do that. It is also another indication that you don't know what bitcoin is and are only using buzzwords such as "freedom" to justify your title.

Again this has nothing to do with bitcoin and you are also confusing bitcoin community with a charitable organization!
Besides an account that was created in 2013 and also is claiming to have traded bitcoin a lot must now be owned by a person who has millions of dollars at their disposal. It is hard to believe that you went hungry for days needing "help"!

P.S. Your trust feedback shows what your intentions were...

Isn't that the goal of bitcoin in the first place to get transactions done without the middle man but that is a difficult thing to do because government is not an adversary that you want to cross swords with, they have the resources to strike if they think that they must do so, maybe if someday when bitcoin becomes a bigger influence I think that governments might get soft and consider it as a means of exchange besides fiat.

And you can make transactions without a middle man but only within the network, once you try to enter the fiat world then you need to follow the rules of the governments, this is why converting your bitcoin to fiat is useless to advance bitcoin as a currency, we need that people begin to accept bitcoin directly for their payments, will this happen? Yes but it will take time, besides that the OP does not seem to know what he is talking about with all his complains that have nothing to do with bitcoin.

It honestly sounds like you didn't quite understood what you were fighting for in a first place, if you want to hide from the goverment, try to deal with bitcoin, cash and people, not with the banks. You won't be buying luxury houses or owning anything too big, but you'll get to live under radar. And if that was your goal, you'll be fine.


It sounds like you need other kind of help. Please take care. Mental health isn't a joke.

What Freedom are Bitcoin granting you? (which you missed)

1. The Freedom to open your own wallet, without the need of a Bank.
2. The Freedom to store your own wealth.
3. The Freedom to pay with a alternative currency for some goods and services. (direct payments)
4. The Freedom to control your own money. (Banks can block your account or close the doors and block the ATM's) ==> Greece
5. The Freedom to send money to causes that are blocked by Banks/Credit card companies/PayPal etc.) WikiLeaks / Pornhub ....
6. The Freedom to send money to anyone all over the world. (Even when governments have restrictions on Bank transfers)
7. The Freedom to use money pseudo anonymously. (Using the correct ways to buy it and sell it)
8. The Freedom to gamble, even if your country is restricted. (entertainment)
9. The Freedom to stop losing value on your wealth, when governments make bad decisions. (Trade restrictions / Inflation increase)

Do you want me to continue with a lot more?

Since I got involved in Bitcoin I have never had as much savings. I have more wealth now
than Ive had for the last 30 years of trying to save FIAT, combined.

Bitcoin has given me freedom, its up to me how I utilise that freedom.
Its up to me to get informed to either use a bank or go anonymous.

I have choices

You do not know how hard every people here to survive and earn bitcoin using many ways. We all trying to earn bitcoin a long time ago. Some of them bought bitcoin at the very lowest price and mine bitcoin. So they are the people who can enjoy their bitcoin now, while most people still fight hard to earn bitcoin. So you are not the only one.

You do not need to do that because you can become anti-government, and you can go to jail. Bitcoin represented Freedom, but you still live in your country, and even if you moved to other countries, you still need to follow that country's rules, so you do not get a problem. There are ways to use bitcoin, but you still need the bank and the government.

If your country allows people to use bitcoin directly in a local store, you can use it to buy anything you want. But if it's not, you need to convert your bitcoin to fiat money by using help from a third party. I believe that some people will help those who want to convert their bitcoin to fiat money in your country.

Yes, that is the solution to trade bitcoin for cash and get the money. But do not forget that the government can do its power to control the exchanges.

You do not have to stay away from bitcoin, and you can still stay close with bitcoin, while you can try to earn bitcoin and convert it with fiat money. You need to take care of yourself, and you do not need to get help from the people you fight for. You are responsible for yourself.

We are lived in real life and online life. When someone came to us and contacts us online, we need to be aware because 99% can be a scam and fake when it is related to the internet. But if you try to contact your people who live around you, I believe they will help you without thinking much about you. So if you need help, try to contact them first, as neighbors will be your closest friends and family when you need help.

Freedom is not an illusion, but sometimes, people think that Freedom means they can do anything they want without thinking if that can damage, ruin or harm other people.

Yes, that is the benefit of bitcoin that we already know.

It also sounded like he has forgotten living in a country that would require necessary details before getting money from the Digital Currency which is Bitcoin. How would he go living in a country without credentials that would prove that he is someone who is able to gain money from Cryptocurrencies by cashing out with different methods presented in his own country.

I also believe that no European Countries is putting a ban on Bitcoin and there are many users within that region who is still living greatly with the profits of Bitcoin. 

As a good citizen, freedom is certainly obtained as long as it does not violate the rules set by the government.
The use of bitcoin without involving banking is certainly very difficult to do if we are still using fiat transactions, as a friend above said that the standard medium of exchange in almost most countries still uses fiat. So it is true that all control is still under the government and the freedom that the OP wants may be difficult to materialize to be implemented in a country like this.

you are too brave to do that and you might be right that anyone can hardly did what you have done but since you already proposed btc to them why would you say that your the only one that will use btc ? and not all of the people within your country ? but for sure they will get more angry if you said that and did they explain to you that you cant use btc without a bank and government ? obviously they can say that because they do not also want btc to rule but i think it is really possible to use btc without the help of them

See if you want to exchange your Bitcoins for fiat and withdraw funds to your bank account then you need to have a bank account which means you need to go through a centralized chain of authority but if you are dealing in Bitcoin you can sen and receive Bitcoin to anyone without the use of any ID and moreover your transaction can be processed immediately if you have given the average fees which is not much without any documentation.This is what makes bitcoin decentralised and provides your freedom and make you the real owner of of your funds.So you need to fully understand Bitcoin usage and eradicate the misconceptions you are having about it.

Those are third party methods that you're mentioning.
Still in its core, you don't need yourself an ID. Just get a wallet, desktop one, or even hardware type.
Those online wallets are unavoidable in those KYC process that happens.

I remember a thread here by "The Pharmacist" about the Bitcoin ATMs.
Some of those Bitcoin ATMs don't require an ID at all, but some does also.

This means that gold is also trash.

Bitcoin can be used as means of payment very good, exactly for peer-to-peer. Yes, it's expensive if you're in a hurry. (It was again under 8 sat/vByte in the week-end.) Yes, shops will avoid using Bitcoin because it makes it harder for them calculate the taxes they have to pay in fiat - but this is because governments favor their own currency, not because Bitcoin would be trash.

You may have had bad experience. Sorry about that.
But if you have no friends to help you with some money, is the money to blame? And if you try to scam, no matter how desperate you are, doesn't that make everything worse? (With your red tag, people may think twice before believing any of your stories.)

All in all, your logic and your story is not convincing about "bitcoin being trash".

Freedom is a concept.We cannot be truly free.There are always limitations and dependencies in everybody's life.Just go on a lonely distant island away from the civilization and then you will be 100% truly free.
Bitcoin cannot "represent freedom" because BTC is only a currency/financial asset.
You are whining about ID verification and KYC.Well,verifying your identity is a requirement for using financial services nowadays.If you don't want to verify your identity,just use the darknet.

To be honest I didn't read all the comments on this topic (even there are just 2 pages)... After reading the headline and opening post I think that OP is confused, and whatever we say to him (and probably each of us will try to give him some kind of explanation why he is wrong) he will not change his mind, probably!

Each of us has a different perspective, understanding of something, and approach in the end! I think OP just got in over his head for a second and he lost his faith! On another side, with this new ATH, many of us have a good argument for all our Bitcoin claims in the past! And we know that game is not over yet, there's so much more to accomplish and achieve! I believe that Bitcoin and the entire crypto ecosystem will bring some changes on a global level... it's already happening, here and there... but I can only guess that this will be nothing compared with what it's going to happen in the future!

Bitcoin is trash? I don't think so, for me it's a technological innovation of our time, but in some points, Bitcoin also has shortcomings that need to be fixed or improve But it doesn't mean that it was considered a trashed. freedom has always accompanied by responsibilities that's why for now that the government impose some requirements in order to transact with banks we must follow it because it is the right thing to do. I also notice that you have some deep rooted problem other than Bitcoin so its better to focus on that.

I understand why you think Bitcoin is trash, because you have a hard time using Bitcoin. Even though of all the difficulties you have actually
because you don't really understand Bitcoin. Regarding you wanting to use Bitcoin without the involvement of the government and banks,
never cash out into fiat. All you need to do is spend Bitcoin directly, that way the government and banks do not need to know of all the Bitcoin
transactions you make. How can the Bitcoin community help you, if you are less active in this forum. Often active in this forum by providing
many positive contributions, I'm sure there are members of this forum who will help you when you experience difficulties.

Bitcoin is not trashing but we need to understand and don't be blind by the freedom of Bitcoin because there arent total freedom anyway in the world whichever way you look at it we're still governed by the government/banks. Besides, nothing guarantees that the major institutional investors are not the doing of powerful politicians.


How many people are aware of this fight? If no one from the Bitcoin community is helping to fight for Bitcoin, bitcoin who have to crumble during Chinese and SEC raised red flag before they implemented KYC/AML which causes the no freedom we're I said earlier.

Keep in mind bitcoin adoption takes a lot of time to happen. We won't see all kinds of services accepting crypto currency overnight.
To live without banks will be possible someday, but to think you could live in society without an ID is daydream and I think you are already going too far...

Each of us really understands how great the benefits of Bitcoin to the community are. In the near future, each of us will not have a speculative asset, but a safe haven for our savings. But for some reason, very often I come across all sorts of news that bitcoin mining is very harmful to the environment. The fact is that this issue was very quickly adopted by some governments of certain countries, justifying by this very situation their non-acceptance of cryptocurrency, and this idea is already fully supported by the Green Party. It's hard to imagine how strong the opposition of this group of people is and how much it can harm Bitcoin.

People who are unfamiliar with bitcoin will continue to say bitcoin is rubbish and has many weaknesses because of its very high voting.

I also agree with you that bitcoin is a technological innovation in this modern era, it is a revolutionary technology that will change the way you make payments.

Bitcoin is not regulated by anyone, including the government, but even so, it is a regulation regarding the use of bitcoin. This regulation will provide some restrictions on the use of bitcoin.

Bitcoin, blockchain and cryptocurrency are future digital technologies that must be developed.

I think the advantages of bitcoin itself can be like sending money between countries but at a cost that is quite cheap and fast

Yes, that's right, you can't earn money by not doing something hard, this is our responsibility as human being we need to work harder to earn money evwn bitcoin or fiat.

I have been working here since 2017 trying my best to earn bitcoin  and I prove in my self if you want to succeed you need to sacrifice, sacrifice your time, work harder, improve your self that what we need to fo to earn bitcoin.

I don't see it as a problem, you can spend your coins on merchants that accept BTC, there are already stores accepting BTC. The number of stores though is pretty much limited but I think we already saw this coming that the government will not give up without them getting back the control. Fiat is not going to go away, they also have CBDC which is coming. Still not trash when you know banks can't freeze your coins.

Dude, you have issues with your government, not bitcoin. ID and banking is partly and wholly controlled by the government irrespectively, and to blame the shortcomings it underlies to bitcoin as if it wasn't made to combat these is just sad. Also, you make it look like bitcoin did you dirty when it comes to earning. It is established from the start that bitcoin is not a get rich quick scheme, although that is what it does for the most part. To say that you will be rich with bitcoin is just funny.

Nope we could still turn our crypto into Fiat without ID or banks you just need to find a buyer who you could trust.
Most of the way to turn our crypto into cash really need some personal information or have to do some KYC but we could still convert it into cash.
And you've stated that no one from crypto help you maybe they just doesn't trust or know you too well.
I have some friends from crypto and we are helping each other when someone from our group needs help.

the main factor in my opinion is government regulation. It all depends on the government's decision, if the government does a good thing and supports bitcoin, I think it will be a good journey and there are no obstacles or even someone doesn't need to fight for bitcoin. Bitcoin will run on its own with the support of many people

And it is not only about the price of bitcoin going up, the forum is going to expose you to many ideas that you never through about and then you are going to have several eureka moments and you will begin to change your life slowly, you will realize that the fiat system may last for a long time but the idea behind is flawed and it will eventually fail, you understand why despite saving fiat it does not seem as if you are moving ahead, you understand how much people spend on stuff they do not really need or want, and once you make adjustments to the way you use your money suddenly you find yourself with more money than you ever had.

It sounds quite painful to me when you say Bitcoin is trash, whereas to me Bitcoin is like a treasure. In fact, you only need to spend your Bitcoin
directly without converting your Bitcoin to fiat. It's one of the easiest ways to use Bitcoin without involving the government and banks. Because now
many merchants accept Bitcoin payments.  You have to understand if there is no Bitcoin community to help you in a pandemic situation like now,
because most people are going through difficulties in their life. So you should solve your life problems with your own ability, if you want to ask
for help, preferably to those closest to you according to my advice.

Strange statement, Bitcoin garbage. Garbage is a substance that has worked out its role and cannot be useful in the household in any way, in other words, it is the remains of vital activity that have no value. Bitcoin is far from fulfilling its role, imagine garbage, for $ 60K. It doesn't matter to me how I can get the dollar equivalent of my Bitcoin . As long as Bitcoin makes it possible, thanks to the dimamics of value, to make a profit, and as long as I can sell Bitcoin at any moment and get a lot of dollars, Bitcoin will be the most advanced financial component for me.

Actually this isnt something to deal with its value but into is actual relevance when it comes to payment system.Im not really surprised that most people would really
be having this kind of views towards bitcoin and focused only on the benefits that it could give when it comes to investment without tending to look up on the other side
about its actual usage which it cant really be considered to be a garbage no matter what.A revolutionary thing like this wouldnt really be ending up to be a trash.
This is one of the main factors on why bitcoin is heavily supported and liked by the community.

Bitcoin's advance towards global acceptance is still in its infancy. The technology has just been here for more than a decade, compare that to fiat with thousands of years of development and evolution. It shows great promise for the future, not for the present, and if you're here for a quick buck, then you're getting everything wrong. Bitcoin isn't trash. Do you call unrefined gold ores trash too? Bitcoin is still an unrefined version of itself, the future it possesses is very promising to just label it as trash, just because it's not that accessible now.

This opinion may come from someone who doesn't really know about Bitcoin, only follow the hype, and then lose money at all. SO, calling Bitcoin is trash.
However, if it is about the transaction fees, payment method, and also fast transfer, yeah, this is actually one of the weak sides of Bitcoin where these things are not realized enough.
However, I personally will never say it as trash., Trash is something that is not worthy (if it is not recycled). However Bitcoin, something very worthy for me. However, it will not make worthy or will lose your money if:
- Only follow the FOMO
- Panic sell and panic buy
- not using DYOR
so, losing money will be easily happening

You know a crash is around the corner, when you see threads like this one.

It surely is a golden garbage, but oh wait it has more value right now than gold, so there it goes.
Either OP is just trying to clickbait this thread from the title or s/he concluded it based from his/er assumptions.

Meh. 60k is here right now.

Your Bitcoins and are in your full control. If you get involved in law the bank can freeze your account.
Bitcoin increases in value often over time so it is also a good investment.
Although Bitcoin is difficult to convert to cash with a bitcoin ATM, you can at least exchange P2P with those in need.
Bitcoin is not trash, Bitcoin is financially free. Everyone in the world Knows Bitcoin and buys Bitcoin regularly so there is no reason to make such a bad conclusion.