Bitcoin Forum

Do you agree with this idea? Example: X coin has 100M max supply and there are 50M supply circulating on it's network. They sell 50M+ coins year by year to people who wants to buy it. Imagine a bank gives credit (more money than the bank has) to costumers.

If I understand you well then you
1. Don't understand exchanges and the numbers they display
2. Don't understand banks and their operations

1. Exchanges.
The typical exchange doesn't sell their own money, they only match buyers and sellers' orders.
And since some do day trading, they will sell and buy and sell again and buy again the same and same coins for incredible number of times.
This means big volumes for the exchanges. If you also add the fact that most exchanges inflate their volumes... you'll get to huge numbers.
But no, they won't sell more coins than they have simply because they don't sell coins.

Of course, an exchange could play dirty games with the customers' coins from the cold storage, but that's the sure way to go out of business.

2. Banks do lend more money than they own. It's called fractional reserve banking and it's a common practice (legal too!).

Looks like you don't even know how exchanges traditional crypto exchanges with order books work. Who told you they are the ones who sell crypto to buyers.

And crypto addresses are viewable by the public. If a coins is legit like Bitcoin, there is no room to create coins out of a thin air minus it getting noticed unless if of course you are using shit coins and shit exchanges where you will shamelessly get scammed.

I understand your all words truely but...
Do you remember when the Poloniex was a popular exchange? You could simply see more supply on the sell orders more than circulating supply of an altcoin. Is that all about the numbers they display? If so, how and why they did it?
Of course they won't sell more coins than they have but I meant coins which doesn't exist. They can simply show people only numbers. So an exchance can collect their Bitcoins and they can give them some $ with that way?

I don't say all sellers are the exchanges. Don't get me wrong please. I know the basic of an exchange. I just wonder what if everyone decided to withdraw their coins from the exchanges to their own wallets? There are enough coins on the exchange's wallet? Or the whole wallets are just numbers? They urgently stop withdraws when all traders decide to take their coins to their own wallets because exchanges doesn't have enough coins. I said 'traders' because of that a real holder never sell coin on the exchange if it's not miner.

The order book on exchange is most commonly from liquidity provider bot. So some of the sell order on the exchange especially those sell order far from the current price is not an actual token. I don't know exactly how there bot works but is the common method of exchange to provide liquidity on there order book.

Did you really see the main question?

How can the exchange sell an altcoins which doesn't exist?

I mean it's only possible if the exchange itself is the creator of the coin, like yobit which they can manipulate their own exchange to give way to their useless coins. I don't understand to be honest, kindly elaborate more please.

I'd rather believe that some exchanges fake volumes (and they do) instead. I think your fear is way more possible with companies like PayPal selling coins they never let you withdraw (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5315688.msg56302014#msg56302014).

Here's how exchange orders look:
-> BTC/USD pair is listed on Exchangeus. You are the first to sign up there and deposit your 1 BTC. You place a sell order: 1 BTC for $2k. Alice comes up and wants to purchase BTC but your order is the only one that exists on Exchangeus. Alice deposits $2k through her bank account and places a buy order, filling up your sell order entirely.
-> Bob comes up and decides he doesn't want to sell at $2k because he thinks 1 BTC at $2k is cheap. Bob has 10 BTC in his personal wallet. He deposits his 10 BTC on Exchangeus and places an order for $100k per coin. There goes a sell order worth $1M.

But just because Bob wants to sell at $100k per coin does not mean BTC will ever touch that price. Perhaps by the time Bob remembers he placed a sell order, Bitcoin will in fact drop to the floor and be worth $0.01 per coin. Bob's sell order still remains alive though. Although Bitcoin's fully dilluted market cap is now worth $210k, Bob's order is still worth $1M. He's still waiting for it to be fulfilled, yet that does not mean it will ever happen.

You see this happening with a lot of shitcoins. Some people have extraordinary hopes that someone will accidentally sell their shitcoin at astronomical prices. And sometimes.. this really happens (https://btcmanager.com/ethereum-80000-crypto-system-bug/)!

Let's say you and Alice go over Exchangeus again. You are the only Bitcoin traders there. Suddenly, you start continuously buying & reselling 1 BTC a hundred thousand times between each other. The volume you create is worth 100k BTC, but the reality is.. just a single coin has been moved. Although the volume is that high, it does not mean this many coins have been moved around.

Thank you for your examples but I don't talk about the sell order's worth. I say that how can we see 14M coin supply at he sell orders when the circulating supply of Xcoin is 10M?

Exchanges do not work like that, I do think you have to understand the fact that they try and when you place an order they sell that order to some customers waiting to buy, but when you think about it many of these exchanges are 'instant' , so at that time they just try and just match these things instantly. Their name is EXCHANGE itself, they just exchange and take their commission between buyer and seller.
https://i.ibb.co/x5CZVLD/main-qimg-2bc2b8cfc9a74e2ae607c3c6f31ac29d.png (https://imgbb.com/)
(A little image from google to show what they do)
Regarding your other questions.
1. Fake Volumes is very normal and many of these exchanges try and even produce fake whale alerts.
2. They cannot give more cryptos than they have, since most of these Ath and BTC they can be exchanged and sold , traded in a couple of seconds , if that's fake it can never be done, they will force you to hold your coins for a while.
3. Reportedly 95% of the volume in Bitcoin exchanges are fake according to a recent study (https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com/1578753/common-clues-that-a-bitcoin-exchange-is-faking-its-trading-volume/amp/ (https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com/1578753/common-clues-that-a-bitcoin-exchange-is-faking-its-trading-volume/amp/))
They can fake Volumes but they won't give you fake crypto ! Well the normally good exchanges won't.

https://i.ibb.co/nRfC2Q2/main-qimg-3d5ae557709708bad52734510aa0bef8.png (https://imgbb.com/)
[Another image taken from google]
` Now this is how it works normally, the exchanges collect the most data and then they just use their immense customers to match the seller and buyer and web them together. So this is way faster and works well. They even use their bank accounts to help and buy and sell them.

fiulpro thank you for your patience and clear explanation. Why no one is trying to answer it? 'what if everyone decided to withdraw their coins from the exchanges to their own wallets'

Do you have a clear example (link?) of an exchange currently selling more coins than the available supply of a coin?

Do you really comprehend my statement or you didn't know how market maker bot works? Bots provide fake volume on exchange by providing fake transactions and orders in there order book. Meaning the tokens they are placing in the order book is not real, they are using it to fake the volume on the order book.

This will fall what you are talking about so called "Circulating Supply is greater than Max Supply". Unless the exchange you are talking about is Decentralized Exchange then this statement is not valid.

LOL. X100

I see. So can we prove that you hold a real coin when you buy it on an Exchange? You can not see an address or txID when you buy X/BTC on an Exchange. Even though you can't know that the seller is a bot or a real one, how do you believe you hold real coins on your wallet?
There is a solution for prove that the coins on the wallet aren't fake numbers. Try to withdraw your assets(all users) to coin's own wallet  then see is it all about manipulation or real blockchain. There are 50M Xcoin on the user's wallet but what if they decided to withdraw 50M Xcoins from the Exchanges to their own wallet? Don't say 'Exchanges match sellers and buyers bla bla' me please.

Try creating a Bitcoin exchange that only works with on-chain txs. See how many customers you'll have when they find out they have to pay dozens of bucks per trade during congested mempool. This is why exchanges do the trades off-chain. On-chain, things would fail from the start.

I'm still waiting for a proper example of an exchange having more liquidity than the existing supply of a coin..

I don't have a screenshot or something to prove it. It was early 2017 and Poloniex was doing what I did talk about. Now I am sure that Binance's selling non-exist coins to it's customers. Okay, I can't prove it but it deserves being a theory. There are too many people try to earn easy money on the Exchanges. Therefore, it will never be more than a theory until the regulation or greedy people decide to withdraw all their assets their own wallets. I'm gonna wait for the first one.

The liquidity will be very low and there will be no transactions will be happening on the exchange site caused by less people are using it to trade. If this is still continue and im sure the exchange will try to delist it.
About your first question and i do believe that will be related to the IOU that offered by exchange site.
This trend was happening in the past but some exchange sites are still using it right now.

Well, it's definitely possible. Just like you said if everyone withdraws we'll see whether those exchanges are doing some dirty things or not. To be honest I'm not surprised if this happens on low volume/low-quality exchange where you can't even withdraw $50 from your balance.

This is why Paypal selling bitcoin is a very risky service, at least for me. Like others mentioned above, the chance of getting scammed is high, even if the company is reputable (since we don't really know whether they have any bitcoin or not). If you do believe an exchange is doing something shady, feel free to leave them and make a thread about it. Pretty sure it will help people as long as you get enough proofs about the order book and stuff like that.

I've already left the Binance and removed my $VET and $WAVES to my own wallet. I'll be watching the market and I'll make a thread about it with more details. Exchanges will have to stop speculate and remove fake resistances. Cryptocurrencies can't drop like %90. Infinity high values in their nature.

Do you know on how exchangers work?

The way you do make out explanations about supplying a particular coin then its not really their coins at all unless if you do talk about exchange-made or dedicated coins then that would be understandable.
Then whats the issue about it? Among all of the coins that they do list out then they are just intermediary or middle man between buyers and sellers and they are just simply taking out
trading fees or commissions between those transactions.

Banks? those are typical stuffs but i dont see the point of comparison.Better read up everything about the basics on how exchange platform works.

Exchanges don't sell the coins, only the holders doing it who bought it at presale or mined it. So the exchange is just a platform where buyers and sellers meet and make their trader orders when it matches the trade will be executed. But centralized projects can mint new coins and tokens from no where then inject it into the market that is why we need to invest on decentralized projects.

Why you all trying to troll me? I'm not saying exchanges have the half of the supply! They confirm transactions off-chain right? Of course they will do it in that way but you can't see any information about the transaction right? Why you all are so comfy? They may be taking your Bitcoins and giving you numbers? There is no problem when you want to withdraw it until the everyone decide to do same thing.