Bitcoin Forum

Using bits to represent value which can be exchange into services and goods has generated some argument among religions leaders and In this case the University of Lagos Muslim Alumni (UMA) has examined the Islamic perspectives, benefits and limitations to Muslims in this regard. Dr Muiz Banire, said “the reality of the situation is that there are always better ways of addressing a default. Because several of the youths involved in crypto currency will end being unemployed, which will enhance social dislocation and insecurity”, such definitely understand the true nature of man.

On the other side, “Most of the scholars said it is not allowed because it has not met the conditions. They argue that it has not protected wealth to a large extent while few scholars that accepted digital currency buttress their point that even the paper money was also rejected before it was accepted globally.”  Sources  (https://guardian.ng/features/islamic-perspective-on-cryptocurrency-by-scholars/)

there is always difference of opinion everywhere, there is no reason to single out the religions. i don't know what this university is but last time i checked years ago the Islamic leaders analyzed bitcoin and concluded that it is "halal" to receive it as payment for any "halal" work or use it to pay someone else for the work they had done for you. but it is not if bitcoin is used for gambling or anything illegal. pretty much the stance that everyone else has too.

This is a line which proved the world that one day bitcoin also be accepted for all countries. Yes thats true money evolution shows us how peoples start accepting paper money as a value for exchange something from goods exchange method. So  there could be a chance too when some peoples start paper money as a value to exchange then that time whole world wasn't agreed them and they also didn't accepted paper money too. But now paper money is everything for us. So we can easily predict that one day bitcoin will be also acceptable for the whole world.

I call rulings like these utter nonsense. There is no logic to it.

Someone please ask Dr Muiz Banire whether he trusts corrupt central bankers and governments over a decentralized monetary system that has no room for manipulation or exploitation.


What conditions? The condition of inevitably being worthless by endless printing, manipulation, and corruption? We have seen that happen in countries such as Cyprus, Venezuela, and Zimbabwe. Other countries are following suit too.

I am not sure if the paper money was rejected before accepted globally. But I believe in a theory that when you discover something new, then at the very beginning it would be rejected globally. But, slowly it would be accepted by peoples. So same theory is applicable for Bitcoin as well. In the beginning, no one accepts it, slowly it has been spreading globally. So many negative and positive comments will come from different peoples but seem it's not affecting Bitcoin. Seems Bitcoin does not care about all the negativity. Hope once a time global population will be more encouraged to know about Bitcoin.

Even in Christendom they were against this internet money and not only just single down to the Muslim only, but we were also told about the beast and it mark 666 in Revelation 13:16-18, so,” I think the truth is, it is still too early to be dogmatic”.

How about if it's considerable that many will be ending up unemployed because many of them are early investors of bitcoin and have bought a lot of it before the bull run? and the total value that they have are considerably good for retirement based on the cost of living in their country.
But regardless of it, I respect all of the religion and if they don't look at bitcoin in a positive manner, we need to wait for them until they change their stance or we should remain to respect them with that.

It is really confusing when you hear these bullshit, we are living in a modern society and where does religion stands during those times, yeah i bet there are many who exploit people in the name of religion and make insane amount of money and what i do not understand is do religion control any of these, may be in countries who have exploiting rules where women does not even have equal rights.

I am not judging but i am not an expert in this nor we will see any legit information about it online and i have no idea why a religion would reject bitcoin, the only aspect i understand is that they do not like transparency and have a trail for every transaction which is obvious  :P.

or better yet, they dont understand about it and dont know how to control it. the reason why they dont like it . am not really against with any of these religions but sometimes they are saying things that they have no idea about.
how many head of religious sects found out to be wealthy and untouchable because they are just using this so-called religion to enrich themselves and to have the power over their people?  we are already in this age and many people are already open to so many things, they can take care of their own businesses without their consent. this is why they are afraid also.

Religious stances aren't top in terms of understanding what cryptocurrency means, works.. They consider it as a pyramid scheme or gambling rather than gold or FIAT.
What's the difference between owning 1 bitcoin or 1 once of gold or 1 USD or 1 acre. After all its prices will change over time and risk to increase or decrease. We can trade it, buy and sell it like any other goods.

The reason this appears so, is people are stubborn, but also don't like change. So, whenever there's a new technology, or concept especially when it introduces evidence that their current belief system, or technology or whatever they are following is doing it wrong, or at least inefficiently they can become somewhat defensive of it. For example, I know a lot of people who complain about the fiat money system, but are completely hostile to Bitcoin simply because they don't understand it, and its trying to change what they are currently using.

This is why we have pioneers in almost every department. they are the ones that take on the challenge of furthering the development of these alien ideas, and in time make it simpler, and easier to understand, which in return increases adoption rates.

Each religion does have its own beliefs that should really be followed and i dont see anything wrong with it even though some said its nonsense but lets respect on whats
their take about this matter.

When we do talk about Islamic views on Bitcoin then it is considered to be Halal.

According to this article: https://decrypt.co/37286/is-bitcoin-halal

"However, like fiat currencies, simply holding Bitcoin as a means of payment and store of value are perfectly halal. Beyond this, using Bitcoin for any purpose that would be considered haram with fiat currency would also be considered haram with Bitcoin.""

Talking about fiat then it is just actually the same in terms on where i can possibly used.

I believe fiat currencies received the same hate as bitcoin did in the past, and what these people are saying is basically nonsense because the things they accuse bitcoin of inflicting to people are also applicable to fiat. If I were them, it would be better to support bitcoin instead across the countless signs of fiat's collapse, where bitcoin is the only viable solution to keep the society well-functioning in the future.

When Bitcoin is accepted globally then it's already too late to hold Bitcoin, because the price has been surge and you lose the opportunity to multiply your money.

Haram and Halal, pretty much like this images
https://i.ibb.co/dfk5tXz/92fe4b1e6d5def1d19ad799c1d55f4d9.png (https://ibb.co/dfk5tXz)

You can consider Bitcoin as Haram when you think "it's only a bubble" "that's for gambling" "that's ponzi" "this is speculate asset, speculation is haram" bla bla bla
You also can consider Bitcoin as Halal when you think "it's a currency and can be used for a payment" "it's a new commodities with new technology integrate with blockchain" "1 BTC = 1 BTC, it can't be changed" etc.

So, it's really depends on your thought and opinion.

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AFAIK Pakistan (one of largest Muslim country) already accept Bitcoin, so it's a beginning it will be accepted on other Muslim country too.

Sadly most religious leaders are hypocrites.  This reminds me of many religious leaders that spread the gospel of internet being a medium of evil thus making the internet evil and yet they are proven to be wrong since the internet now a day is being used as a source of their communication and way of spreading their doctrines so it is not surprising to see that they will look at BTC that way.  I would not believe on anything they say since many of their belief had been proven to be wrong when it comes to technology in relation to what they call evil.

The problem is that the doctrines in religions is they are not matching with the technology, especially Islam which is really strict with their doctrines to the point that it should follow the teaching bit by bit. I mean if bitcoin doesn't really have anything difference from fiat then I think that the rejection will repealed.

Things will change eventually, its the same with the big financial institutions, JP morgan spread fud about BTC but later they are not speculating it will reach up to a certain price like the very bullish among them.

In terms of religion, however, there could be some that they don't agree like the staking since they don't allow it. I  learned it from this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5324612.0

If it is Islamic related thing, I think that a change will be difficult. Religion and business is different to a certain degree because you can't just side with someone easily with religion when that goes against your faith however businesses are like a scum of society where they will be friendly when there is money and interest involved.

"Too early to be dogmatic" are you indirectly or directly saying this religious leaders won't have a change of mind at some point!
It is one thing to be open minded and another to try and disregard others views and believes just because they don't go alongside yours,
This is a new technology that perhaps both religious are finding it difficult to put a better explanation to, I think it is too early to be judgemental.

In my early days in crypto as a noob I read the back and forth arguments on while Muslims shouldn't get themselves involved in crypto. One of the arguments that shocked me was someone likening Bitcoin to gambling. The proponents of that argument were of the opinion that there was so much risk involved investing in Bitcoin (as if every other businesses don't have risk associated with them). I guess those who argued that way must've seen through their ignorance by now.


Of course, they will later get through it and come to awareness of its relevance. There's that skepticism that confronts every invention. It's either there is a gang up from the old order against it or the ignorance of those the invention seeks to liberate becomes the problem. Bitcoin (cryptocurrencies) is gradually becoming popular now unlike what it was in the recent past.

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Beyond all that, the uninformed stance of religious sects has also helped to backtrack the development of the crypto industry. While Muslims think it's gambling, most Christians think it's the coming of the "one currency government" of the Antichrist. All that is laughable, really.

I have never heard that paper money was rejected by religion or any other part of society at the initial stage of their circulation. After all, paper money also has its own history of development and formation. At first, these were receipts for the bank for the issuance of certain material values, which were used as money, and only over time they were transformed into paper banknotes of the central banks of states.
World religions can relate to cryptocurrency in different ways. It is such a new direction in the financial sphere that even states still cannot form a unified attitude towards it. As far as I know, the religions of the world, including Islam, have not yet expressed their opposition to cryptocurrency.

Yeah,because having a 9/5 job provides complete security.You will work that job until you retire and you will never get fired ;D This is typical "boomer" thinking.We live in the twenty first century and the economy is way different now,compared with the past centuries.We have to be more flexible and adaptive.We have to be capable at working different jobs.Digital economy is different than the conventional economy.
The crypto industry is in a very early stage and,in the future,it might create a lot more jobs for the people.

The Muslim religion is all about "control" ...... telling people what to do and what not to do. They only want people not to use Crypto currencies, because they cannot control what the people do with it.  ;D

When you pay for porn on the Internet with traditional payment systems, it will leave a paper trial.... not with Crypto currencies. So can you now see why they want to stop that?

                                                                  "Control the people and you control their wealth." 

Bitcoin journey so far has been a rough one. Many never gave her a chance. But today, it has come to stay. The centralized institution (Government) has made most of not embrace something when we are supposed.
I tell, time will come when all will accept cryptocurrency.

IMO, I don't see reasons to wait for such humans all becasue of their believes that are contrary against trending events. We have moved from the stone age to technological age and they (religions leaders) should understand with this movement to blend with the norms of this generation. Should we constantly keep ourselves from embracing new technologies when need arises? we needed a cashless policy and we had one, then boom religions leaders will swig into action by reading different meanings for such techs and preach their loyalist against it. No need to wait for anyone, they should join us soon!!.

You can't expect everyone to accept which is literally new for them, they just want to stay in the comfort zone all the time but everything in this world evolved so the decentralized payment will be accepted and unstoppable meanwhile there are also some hate against it for their benefits.

Paper money is widely use, whatever religion you have, you still use paper money, and paper money has been in circulation before bitcoin was invented, maybe we can understand if some religion is against  crypto but definitely not paper money. I live in a country where there's a lot of Muslims, they all use paper money, even borrow money from lending company so even if the rule or teaching is for every Muslim, still not everyone are good followers of the teaching.

I realize that religion is the regulator of religious life. and for me this is not too debatable, because law and religion have their respective domains. As for my point of view, this all falls into the realm of buying and selling. where an exchange transaction occurs to exchange goods. regardless of whether it is digital or banknotes. So far we cannot accept from one understanding and law from one scholar. Therefore there must be ijma and qiyash where all the scholars gather and decide the law together. so in my opinion it is not enough to just refer to one statement.

I don't have the right sources but am fairly certain that even the religious funds (pension funds and pilgrimage funds which helped pay for expensive pilgrimages to Mecca) in Malaysia at one point we're questioned and investigated for their permissibility as Islam is the official religion... And found to be wanting as the funds were invested in forbidden businesses like forex (generally, questionably forbidden) and gambling (explicitly forbidden).

Eventually they had to issue fatwa which made all these permissible as they were necessary and impossible to avoid.

Can't see why Bitcoin won't undergo the same considerations.

Religion has a negative influence on the society but no body is ready to talk about it, everyone needs to be financially free while they leave, actually the creator of religion knew exactly that the followers would never ever think to be rich, they kept following rule towards hindering their finances., truth be told, some Muslim followers will never buy cryptocurrency think they keeping the halal rule.

I thought about something, I think is would be good for human being to adhere from religion, it ruins the lives of younger billionaires,. Fuck religion.

How does religion who has it rules based on many years ago occurrences put it rejection on cryptocurrency or Bitcoin, I am not a scholar of any religion and am just a believer of all things good, but I know even then religion never thought of digital asset or currency, so how does religion affect all this, religion or too much of it has been mis-interpreted by the scholars and followers, but paper money wasn't the first money, but if money was ever first accepted then paper money should not have been different.

I haven't read much about the circumstances surrounding the evolution of money at their different stages but one thing I am sure about is this, change doesn't always come with people accepting it whole heatedly but by coerces and compulsive forces. I am sure paper money faced the same rejection bitcoin faced before making the spotlight.

You know that everything could really be connected on even if it would take up on more future years to come and anything that would be attached to something like in monetary aspect then it
would really be checked out and see if it would really be needed to be avoided or accepted.

Im aint also a religion expert but basing of with some common sense they do have set out their own beliefs which I do see a bit too much on putting up into something
without minding that its all interconnected to each other.

If that's the case then why not treating the same with fiat?

One thing is for sure, we cannot please anyone to accept bitcoin and that will be the main problem of anyone. Way back before when there is no fiat currency, the people are just using trading of items or goods in exchange for products of other person, and I am also pretty sure that before the people establish to use paper money there are people who are mocking on them and laughing on it because of a such paper and same goes by bitcoin, many are having circumstances in bitcoin in which there are so many rejections that is happening with it right now so what we need to do is to wait them to adapt bitcoin as well they do on paper currency.

That's a barter system when there is no fiat founded.
That is right, even before fiat was I guess experienced too a rejection by its country but they don't have to do is to accept. Fiat currency is a centralized one and controlled by the government, if this is implemented by the government, you should accept it and adapt and I guess the rejection has a low chance because it is backed by the government, not like bitcoin.

If it is for donation then I don't see any problem with it ,
They are free to accept it since it is to help them on their needs it has a value so they could use it Fiat and gold or any other things with value are being accepted so why not crypto?

I mean, shouldn't we fully accept rejections and then proceed to argue in that direction so that we can persuade whoever presented it? Honestly, I'd always want someone to actually argue with any ideas I'd present, especially in project presentations just so that we can actually proceed into discussions rather than them just nodding their heads on and on. This doesn't only apply to rejections from religions, but also anywhere so I suppose that's a plus. Though if it directly conflicts with their culture or way of living (which I doubt it would in BTC's scenario), then I think that's an entirely different scenario.

It will not be rejected because fiat is a fiat, same as bitcoin because it is already known to many people just like its value in crypto currency market.Many people invested in it which makes it one of the top value in crypto and shows many proof and usefulness.

Depending on the place and where do you live there can be some religions people saying bitcoin 'haram' and should be banned the reason is clear usually the religions people will reject any new technology because they afraid of it people will afraid of anything they don't know and don't have any knowledge about it. I'm sure they were rejecting the paper money too, however, there is always different opinion from people about bitcoin I would suggest you to do your job and don't listen to them. You can never make them love bitcoin and they can never make you hate bitcoin.

All that has been created in this world has been rejected at first because certain people refuse to agree that we are changing, developing, and improving, and it will take time for them to accept it.

For the time being, they can't see the future of BTC or what the best use of it is besides being decentralized.

So I assume that one day they will embrace it and start to use cryptocurrencies in all because these things were built to be useful to humanity. Everyone has an opinion on crypto, which we should respect because we all come from different cultures and things take time.

With due respect i haven't seen others on this issue than the Islamic religion and this gat my attention toward their believes on acceptance of new technologies. Yeah, there were series of other religions opinioned but wasn't as loud as this religion, though not exonerating others from this but theirs was to some extent. Bitcoin just made some decade and some are still doubting the legality and authenticity of it existence. The problem here is: most of these guys(scholars or leaders) are huge mentors and had chained millions of minds not to accept what they are not accepting, was religion made of such?, it's personal and sell will.

We live in 2021 and i still cant understand why for people is important religion opinion about money

To answer this question, you first need to see a person who works in the cryptocurrency market and at the same time is too religious. It is in this case that such a person turns to his mentor from the Church, asking appropriate questions. But if we take into account that many religions strongly refuse to obtain an identification number from the tax service, from a digital passport and other things that a modern state offers to its citizen, then it is likely that a clever cryptocurrency code will be recognized by the church as a "devil" code. it would be interesting what the Pope answered to this question.

I haven't come across any news source stating paper money getting rejected by religions. Another important thing, people aren't much aware of bitcoin at the moment, and by this time Bitcoin too isn't rejected relating with religion. Earlier people who are highly religious said cryptocurrency as a source of crime and is illegal. This made people term it bad money. Later understanding the reality about the market and it's goodness, now it is termed as halal.

The importance of religion opinion on such issue can be understood by religion leaders. They are the head of these institutions and whatever happen to these followers tell more on their leaders, they were made to protect the religion ethics  to avoid them be mislead from the truth, so, their opinion matter alot IMO. Some of these religion leaders doesn't have the knowledge of bitcoin and cautioning their followers shouldn't be seen as bad.

That's pretty bad, how can you caution your followers for what you don't understand, that's insane, it'd be best if religious leaders study about the purpose of bitcoin and cryptocurrency as a whole, leaders wouldn't even have the gut to stop their followers from using digital currency, the problem with them is ignorant. There's no religion that's against riches, but Christianity will say "Money is the root of all evil" while the religious leaders are the ones spending lavishly on private Jets and all of the shit. I'm not a religious person because their rules is slavery and  hinders success.

Well, I guess the scholar that said the Islamic religion acceptance of cryptocurrency is not allowed spoke from the point of the law, since the central bank has placed a ban on cryptocurrency activities in the country, Islamic religion/scholars must abide by that law. But rather than just an unconditional ban, I think strong regulations as other advanced nations have done is the best way to go about the situation.

Well it's hard to determine whether it's accepted or not by a religion, since a lot of people might have different view and perspective. Even those who are skilled in the religion still debate and often have different arguments. It's even harder since the use of bitcoin is not written in the bible or such, so it's hard and will never be able to know it's a yes, or a no.
i guess paper money is accepted since it's more common, and not that much volatile unlike bitcoin. Bitcoin is often considered as gamble as well, and make it haram since it's so volatile and hard to expect and predict unlike the paper money.

People rejected paper money those days before they now came to understood it very well, that fiat money is more better than gold they where into in their country. Rejecting bitcoin now doesn't mean they will not accept it later, just that they never really understand the reason why Satoshi Nakamoto created bitcoin to the world to enjoy.
Many countries legalized bitcoin in their country which they are really achieving the benefits for the purpose it was created to the world. Many countries are still doubting bitcoin because they never still believe that bitcoin was created to eliminate every wrong transaction and to make people money secure and save.

From the point raised I think you are a Nigerian, so the question should be answered within the context of the Country. If you are currently not even religious leaders only are antagonists for Bitcoin but the government too are not in support and they make the claim if I was to be correct February this year. There are many investments in this country that is religious based like anything that yield interest now some religion won't go for it so I will just say make your stand whatsoever you decide is what makes you.

Why the 666 in the Bible is a literal number of evil in a paper or digital money? Sometimes religious group are so exaggerated and they always said that bitcoin and other digital currency is a gambling and not good to use. It seems that those religious group are not aware and not willing to adopt about the development of modern technology like the digital currency.

Who knows if there are religious leaders who are already aware of the newer technologies that lie around on the internet. They'll embrace it soon when they're ready and we can't really do something with that if they can take action as much as we want and as quick as they want to.
There's no need to rush, just like the other people that are still doubtful about bitcoin, we can't do something with them if they don't really want to.

Money has always been issued by the authorities, and previously, state and religious authorities were often combined in one person or body. True, then gold and silver were first used as money, from which coins were later minted. The first paper money appeared as bills of exchange and this was the right of the person who issued the bill. After some time, the state itself, represented by central banks, began to print paper money, which in fact was a universal analogue of the same bills. For the people, this may have been an innovation, but I do not remember that paper money was rejected by them. Most likely, at first they were mistrustful of them. Indeed, in this case, gold and silver were replaced by paper.

Not everything because there are certain things that from the creation has been supported by the world.

Just like gambling though it is irrelevant to talk.
They can't or they don't , those are the possibilities that's why denial is still there up to now.
Respect is indeed what we need  but also they can't just be left like that instead we must encourage them to understand and at least try.

I don't worry about religions because they are all subject to government regulation. Irrational notions will soon be corrected because only the government has the power to enact laws.
In fact, banknotes are different in each country, and when you bring money from one country to another, you will have to exchange it for another currency, so banknotes are more local.
Bitcoin is different from paper money, it exists on the internet and has worldwide liquidity. As long as there is a suitable environment, it will be accepted. Currently, Bitcoin is being accepted by many countries.

Dumbass, most country have a separation of church and state so most religions aren't subjected to government laws, where do you think they get their large amount of money? They got it from the donations and their tax exemption.

I don't think that churches are ready for that kind of thing for their monetary affairs, they want something that they can hold in their hand.

I agree with your point, the church needs certainty. They need cash to cover jobs and to act as reserve assets rather than volatile assets. But the regulations will be set by the bishop, who has the highest authority in the church. So in the future, they can change their perception of cryptocurrencies.

Really adoption is inevitable, it's quit understood that Bitcoin don't any need more time, already it's a "something" but people or a group of individuals are the people that disvalues or disregard the important of cryptocurrency especially Bitcoin, even from op concept of understanding religions rejection of fiat currency and cryptocurrency via Bitcoin, normally in any circumstances some elements have to be consider as a major function, so relating it to this, you will understand that paper money can't be rejected so easily because it started with origin and it's has been familiar to people from different perspective, now comparing it with the existence of bitcoin it's obvious that the margins is far because Bitcoin is not yet old compares to paper money, i may say Bitcoin is still on hypothesis to some countries.