Bitcoin Forum

The value of Bitcoin have increased by 707% over the last year,  and the average deflation is 96%

As the value of Bitcoin increases, it's owners would have a reduced incentive to do their job, and they would retire at a younger age(since they would have enough money to live the rest of their life). This would decrease the global productivity, even if the demand remains same(or even increase due to increased wealth). This would in turn increase the price of all commodities almost at the same rate as that of Bitcoin(law of supply and demand)

So even if your rich, and your net worth is increasing with increase in the price of Bitcoin, after everyone have adopted Bitcoins globally, even your richness wouldn't be that much rich, since the value of the things that can be brought with those bitcoins would actually grow the same rate as the bitcoin(due to decreasing productivity)

The illusion that the value of your Bitcoin wallet is increasing only works when you compare it with other currencies, and if every other currencies go extinct, the only way to measure our currency is by number of things that can be bought for one unit(purchasing power)

I'm not sure if that's how it works, correct me if I'm wrong(I'm not really an economist)

That is a very interesting argument, the only problem is that it has been the same argument used when bitcoin was at 1$, 10$, 100$, 1000$, 10000$.... do you follow me?

I admit that the growth is likely to be less in the future years as bitcoin is more mature and is gaining traction among institutions, however there are still many companies, countries and investors that do not have a piece of the pie and may be interested in having it. Even if they do not hodl, it contributes to the network effect that is one of the key drivers of bitcoin value. Price will follow value.

Regarding your arguments of people getting rich too soon, you should make the title "why not everyone can get rich with crypto". Not everyone will hold enough to be rich just like not all basketball players can be rich. Global productivity is a million years from being affected by "bitcoin rich" effect.


Kind of yes, the price of bitcoin in USD will grow as long as the politicians decide to print money. Do you see that not being the case? ;)

So you take bitcoin like fiat money which is false. Here is how you can calculate 2 pizza with bitcoin price.
If you bought 2 pizza with bitcoin last year, you will spend 0.001 btc from your wallet. But if you want to buy 2 pizza with bitcoin right now, you can spend only 0.0003 btc.

If you bought 2 pizza with usd last year, you'll pay $30. But if you buy it right now you have to pay $40

Do you see the difference?

Well that's because we estimate the value of the pizza still with USD. But when every traces of all currencies, except BTC have vanished. Then we would have no currency to measure the value of BTC, so we would measure the value of Bitcoin by the amount of thing it can but(Purchasing Power). And with that, we would just give an arbitrary value(or the value that the others are trading their pizzas) to our pizza and continue with the value.

And, if the USD did existed alongside, our society would estimate value of a currency by it's demand(and not Purchasing Power), which would make the growth rate of Bitcoin smaller, over time, when everyone have adopted the currency, and new adaptation can only be made by children or alien beings, who have decided to use our currency

But it is true that Bitcoin still is to be adopted by a lot more people, so the value would indeed grow for more time, but not forever

comparing the price of Bitcoin with the price of Pizza??  In 2010 you will get a complete pizza with onions, peppers, tomatoes, and pepperoni with a value of 10,000 BTC (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137.0) but to get that pizza at this time you only need to pay 0.00017 - 0.00034 BTC.

Bitcoin is basically a digital asset like gold and not a stable currency like fiat so it is very difficult to compare it with the USD.

because you are a newbie who creates a new account here and not an economist either, all you have to do is learn about the history of Bitcoin and do not draw conclusions based solely on your views.

You wanted to say something, but mixed up apples with oranges and the result is just a... fruit salad. Sorry, but imho you've got it all wrong.

Because of its scarcity, Bitcoin price goes up. It's not only making up for the US dollar's inflation, as you wanted to imply. Bitcoin goes up also against gold. Bitcoin goes up also against the price of a pizza.
So a pizza after a year will be much less than 0.001 and much closer to 0.000135 (0.001 / 7, minus the US dollar inflation, give or take).

I was wondering  few days ago:  "what if we just make the value/price of bitcoins to be based on the things of good values they were used for in the past. That will mean that each coin will be priced based on what they were paid/exchanged for in the past. If you get paid for providing good services/goods, your coins will be worth more in terms of price and value. If you provide bad services/goods, it will be worth less.
This will probably make the coins unequal or priced differently, and we wouldn't be needing to price it in dollars/fiats, stablecoins etc

You can only say that you are not rich for taking bitcoins if you didn't take your profit when the right time came especially when bull run strikes and it hits the new all time high. But if you keep hodling eventhough the market crash well you cannot really became rich from that since instead you are sitting with a pile of cash already you decide to became greedy and earn less when price drop badly.

It's not an illusion since with 1 BTC you can probably buy a good house in a developing country this year, compared to a few years ago when 10k BTC is only a good amount for pizza. If we reach the point where fiat or other currencies are deflationary then the market will eventually decide the price accordingly. You also need to measure that the supply of those things will continue to increase, it's not as if the supply will be stuck and everything becomes scarce.

Well I don't mean anything like that. What I meant, in simple terms is that, when everyone has already adopted Bitcoin, the growth in value would actually decrease by a lot. Of course, I'm a Bitcoin investor too, and it's value would grow but not forever

I agree with the others, that is a thought you have pulled out of your sleeve, which has a certain coherence but is fallacious. If you can't get rich holding Bitcoin, you can't get rich with anything, as Bitcoin has been the most profitable asset of the last decade and looks set to be the most profitable asset of the next decade. It's all a matter of quantity, of course, and if you only own 1,000 satoshis today, you're probably not rich, but those who bought whole Bitcoins when they were worth little, and have been able to hold them, are rich today, among them a few members of this forum.

Why in the world you think that increasing adoption of bitcoin will decrease its value?! Did you know that bitcoin supply will stay only 21m forever? If today we can calculate btc adopters is 1000 people, and tomorrow is 2000 people, with that limited supply please explain a simple economic law of supply and demand.

I don't know what he's trying to explain in that statement since if you think more adoption will came for sure the value will rise since bitcoin by now is base in supply and demand and if more demand will came the value increase expext that many will get a confidence since the adoption will give a greenlight on this.

Maybe he's afraid for dump but there's nothing to worry about this since the adoption rate is quite good these days.

Many people never still understand how to use crypto to invest  and start expecting something good from that particular investment. Since bitcoin price is still encouraging in the exchange market show that, those who still own bitcoin in their wallet can still smile, if only they can understand that, this is the season of profit making in the market. Those who really understand the season we are, will really benefit from this rising of bitcoin in the market.

I don't have much knowledge in economics, and I understand what you are trying to say, but isn't it very wrong to assume that most people who might get rich due to Bitcoin will retire early and stop working? Also, it's a big generalization that majority of crypto holders are actually the youth! Because no one has done a survey of crypto holders and their life span etc. Plus, if deflation occurs, and prices gets affected, wouldn't that reverse the people who planned to retire early again forced to work? ;D

As much as your argument looks great in theory, it is actually impossible practically. There can never come a time when bitcoin won't be pegged against another currency. There will always be the US dollar which means you can become rich by hodling bitcoin.
Consider how much I'd worth right now if I had bought 50000 bitcoin when it was worth $10 and I'm hodling till now . Consider the profits I'd have made over the years.
Secondly, even all currencies disappeared one way or the other, bitcoin will be valued in something else. Gold, silver or oil. Trust me, something will be used.

I had the same thought when I read the OP  :D The arguments in the OP have been going on for as long as Bitcoin has been around. I think the OP is making the mistake of trying something new like Bitcoin with old academic economic thinking. These are no longer valid in my opinion, see Peter Schiff who is a perfect example.

This sounds quite interesting, but I see a problem here. For your arguments to be right it would mean that everybody is actually owning bitcoins. So everything would rise with the price of bitcoins if we all would profit the same way from bitcoins. But this is not the case, in my opinion owning bitcoins or crypto coins in general is pretty similar to owning stocks. We are seeing rising stock prices for the last 40 years but yet most people own only a very little stocks or don't diversify their stocks enough. So the price of goods doesn't move with stocks and it shouldn't move with cryptos either.

By the time everyone has adopted Bitcoin, we will be rich AF. That's if Bitcoin ever gets adopted by everyone for real.

Of course Bitcoin won't grow forever. In 2013, it needed an almost 10x drop in order to return to where it is today. In 2019, it needed a drop from $20k to almost 10x lower to return to where it is now. Markets aren't forever bullish. Bitcoin has never been forever like this, it's just an illusion in your mind that it never stops growing up. It does, temporarily, but it always returns to higher and higher levels.

As long as Bitcoin's block reward decreases, if the market conditions of today (adoption levels + optimism + no more oppression from govs etc) stay the same or get even better, the price will increase substantially as time goes by.

Bitcoin is 2000% up from the lowest point of 2020. It's insane, yet people still don't get it: Bitcoin's death has been called so many times, yet it never happened. And it probably never will anyway!

Well, the labor of some jobs will never happen, some Bitcoin Hodlers have companies and businesses apart from Bitcoin, although Bitcoin represents a great fortune for them, in the same way they must keep track of the price, some sell a part of their bitcoins, others panic and sell, some buy bitcoin to keep increasing their wealth.

World productivity does not decrease, because not all people own bitcoin, some have only fractions of Bitcoin and others want to acquire it but due to the increase in price it becomes more and more difficult for them, when compared to other currencies it is obvious that it is higher, because Bitcoin is the King currency, everything is in the comparison with the FIAT currency, dollar, euro, local currencies of some countries, also in comparison with gold it is very valid, in fact Powell has already named a similar issue, so even the Fed is aware of this.

The value will grow and the investor's number will also grow, but the new investors need to buy bitcoin with a lot of money. You can imagine a few years ago or let say in 2013, which the bitcoin price is at $200-$400, rich people can buy as many bitcoins as they can. If they have $1k, they can buy 5 or more bitcoin at that time. But today, if you have $1k and want to buy bitcoin, you will get only 0,01693957 btc. You can see the difference.

And if you now have 0.02 btc, that would be $1180,6672865 per the price now. Not many people now can buy 1 bitcoin directly, and they need to buy with huge money for 1 bitcoin.

Buying 1 Bitcoin doesn't make you rich, it just made you a Bitcoin owner. You could only be rich if you'll know what to do in that 1 Bitcoin, for example is use it up on Trading by buying other altcoins and trade it until your body drop every single day, make profits until you're satisfied. I know trading is not easy but that's how you'll be rich, or just simply hodl your Bitcoin.

Owning cryptocurrency means your steps ahead already from everybody who don't own any cryptocurrency, so don't belittle the capability of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency.

Bitcoin's growth will definitely affect the value of the items that can be bought with it together with its equivalent value on other currencies. Maybe you can't be considered rich in crypto regardless of the amount of your bitcoin holdings but as long as you continue to earn more, it will soon open up opportunities to you wherein you can showcase how wealthy you became because of crypto. Many people are missing the point and the difference between owning a crypto and knowing what's best to do with all the crypto you currently own. Be smart and wise with the use of crypto, someday sooner you will know its value and you will definitely be considered rich.

At least Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies provide confidence and the opportunity not only to become financially independent, but also to improve their financial condition. Achieving wealth is a loose concept, because everyone has their own subsistence level.

You are talking based on assumption that everyone will be rich owing bitcoin and retire. This is not possible. Since the creation the owe system is rigged. We all live in a centralized world and this is the reason why we have both the rich and the poor. It  is not possible for everyone to be rich just the way everyone can't get rich hodling bitcoin. And about productivity being reduced because people will stop working, I hope you know the world is moving and automation and robotics is the order of the day in many manufacturing company. The rate at which robots are replacing human work force is growing so productivity will not reduce

Crypto that value for any normal person to become rich. Only thing you should be able to identify the good coin at low value and hold it till you get rich or when it is near high and sell and make money. Surely, atleast people do well when they have good crypto coins with them and rise when the bitcoin rises which help them to make money.

Indeed, it's providing opportunities to those who understand how valuable crypto can be, a lots of investors already testefies with
how crypto changed their financial state.

Looking into persfectives, you just need to have a positive point of views in order to enjoy what crypto can bring you, knowing each
advantages and how to harvest  are really an achievement.

"Why you can't be rich by owning crypto" is not true. There are plenty of people who made vast sums of money from Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. The key is rebalancing - if say 10 years ago you somehow decided to buy 100 Bitcoin and held on to them up until today then you really need to diversify. You could easily sell 50 or even 75 of those bitcoin, which could be used to buy stocks, property or precious metals. That way you have the best chance of retaining wealth and let's use stocks as an example. Shares in certain companies will sometimes pay out a certain percentage of profits in the form of dividends, if you own enough shares it is possible to live just on those dividends without spending any of your original investment. If you pick the right companies then they will increase those dividends over time (as earnings increase) and the share price will also go up. Diversity is basically key to retaining and building wealth, while also protecting you from shocks if certain assets take a tumble.

Because 10 btc was not worth anything then, there was no higher usd value attached to it, so it was easy to spend 10 btc for pizza, 
The higher the value of the btc the lesser will be the amount in sat you will get, not just pizza alone, even here in forum, many members donate huge amount of btc to the forum because the value was ridiculously cheap or worth nothing, compare to now where every sat counts.

Inflation happens with or without bitcoin, you know what makes it happen? Overconsumption, unlivable wages, and low quality of life. With these three persisting to exist in the modern age, bitcoin or without, commodity prices will still balloon over time. What bitcoin does is help those who were wise enough to trust it to not feel the effects of these inflations, even just for a bit. So to make it out as if bitcoin's global adoption will commence complacency among people is not wise of an argument in my opinion.

If there are people who fail to get rich after owning Bitcoin, means that the person does not have a large amount of Bitcoin or the person is
not holding Bitcoin for a long time. Because the key to the success of getting rich from Bitcoin is how long we are able to hold Bitcoin.
Therefore most of those who became rich because Bitcoin were early adopters, who bought Bitcoin when the price was cheap. So if we really
want to get rich from Bitcoin, the way is very easy we can start collecting Bitcoin from now in accordance with our financial capabilities and
do not sell it for the next 10 years. I am sure that we will get rich after 10 years, most people want to get rich from Bitcoin instantly and don't
want to go through a long process. So it is only natural that such people will fail to get rich, even though they own Bitcoin.

This is a nice argument, although of course if we are to follow the current price graph we have of bitcoin, we can expect virtually everyone's holdings to actually appreciate significantly. Also, inflation happens and had happened even before bitcoin was created? Who can say it is at fault for the current rate at which inflation is booming? That does not sound like a wise argument at all.

I am not sure that everybody that is entering this crypto world is only focusing on investment, I mean long-term investment.
Commonly, if they are a long-term holder or investors, they will put the money and then let it be until higher and higher ATH again in a certain period. And they'll focus again on the real-world activities. However, if they are not only long-term investors, they will prefer to trading. And this doesn't mean to reduce the productivity and making rich based on the bitcoin value. You know wow many jobless in this world and how difficult seeking for job moreover this recent pandemic? \
The Crypto world is really helping us to recover our life from suffering from jobless and having no money in the real world. And traders commonly will also cash out for their life necessities or using it for business in the real world.
Once more, getting into crypto doesn't mean that we are not productive anymore.

Well there is some truth buried in the argument you make.

It boils down to the fact that btc will only make some people rich.

So you need to tease out your idea and say BTC can only enrich a small percentage of the world.


pretend that to keep coins flowing they decide to take back stale accounts. This could recover one or two million untouched coins. Much like a bank closes account that have not been used for 20 years or so.

Next thing is calulate the worlds wealth at 210 trillion. (easy math)

so in 20 years the world moves To 420 trillion wealth.

say 210 trillion is btc

21,000,000 x 10,000,000 is  210,000,000,000,000 or 210 trillion

or half the money in the world.

so if the coin was spilt even 21 million people with 1 btc  worth 10 million

that 10 million is worth about 5 million now.

What do i think would happen if 21 million people had 5 million right now.

It would be like you say wealth  would shift.

But what will happen is the 21 million coins will not be spread like  just said.

a few will have 100 or 200 or 1000  coins.

and a more will have 5,10,20

some will have .5 or 1

and a lot will be much smaller

so maybe only 10000or 20000 end up rich.

not 21 million

so huge demand will not happen since it wont be a huge amount of rich people .

I agree with the idea but not really the reasoning behind it.

Most people accumulate wealth through doing something productive. BTC is designed to be a mere store of value. Sure, you can hedge your positions in fiat assets with BTC, but that will only preserve value as opposed to create any.

No one has ever gotten poor from owning gold, but no one has gotten filthy rich either.

Speculating in the crypto markets simply won't make you rich either in the long run. The markets are totally unpredictable and trying to generate stable returns is futile.

You have a point there but there is always an exemption. If one investor owns hundreds or thousands of bitcoin, he can actually live his whole life without worrying much about expenses. Even the commodities are continue to go high as you have said that bitcoin also continues to go up as well, as those of the needed things to buy like essential foods, etc then it will still be afford by an individual who have lots of bitcoin.
 
 Things are changing, if bitcoin will gonna be adopted well in different countries, expect more develop and more improve bitcoin many years from now.

This argument is nothing new, we can distinguish between value and price, even if the price of bitcoin was one million dollars in the future it does not matter if you need that million to buy a sandwich so I get your point, but the purchasing power of bitcoin has been increasing during the years and the production of goods around the world is still increasing, and even if we came to the point in which there was such an economic crisis that reduced the economic activity by 90% or more we will still have the goods that were produced before that and you will still have a huge purchasing power under those circumstances.

You actually have a point there because every year the value of Bitcoin does increase and the supply and demand does change too. The things we need that are bought by Bitcoin or any other currencies also increases it's value. But if you have accumulated Bitcoin by other means, let's say you were paid from an employer using satoshis being converted from USD way back in 2017 and you haven't touched the amount being paid by you; the value of that amount that you were paid increases. So there is a possibility you could be rich by owning that amount of crypto too.

I think this is completely wrong thought process. Apology for the harshness, but note that when global adoption will occur to bitcoin then it won't stop its productivity won't become stagnant with it BUT, it will enter into different realm of asset keeping. In fact with global adoption people would want more bitcoin and there will be limited one so "demand" for BTC will go crazy in those times. With out traditional system when there is more demand and less supply, the prices for those asset could go off the chart. The money is flowing because we are consuming electricity, generating heat, we are paying the electrical companies for the same.

Mining equipments come with the a price and paid in real money, taxes are levied on the same. So real money is flowing directly and indirectly to this on.  :D

Your post has a bunch of assumptions that simply won't happen in real world:
1.Bitcoin will never replace all the fiat currencies.Central banks won't allow this to happen.They need inflation.
2.Bitcoin owners won't decrease their productivity,because most of them don't have that much BTC.They must continue working their 9/5 jobs and maintaining their standard of living.
Do you think that every person,who owns BTC will become a millionaire at a young age,so he will retire and never work until the rest of his life?This seems like a joke to me.

Simple answer is that you don't have a lot of cryptocurrency in the first place so you have to make do with what you currently own and you have to wait for the prices to astronomically go up before you can say that you are rich when you own a cryptocurrency and you also have to have a lot of cryptocurrency too before you to get the most out of the rise in price.

The thing is, in every people profitting the money must be coming from somewhere else and this distribution of wealth could result in another rich person but also another poor person. It won't affect the productivity at all since the coin is limited while the money to pump the price must be coming from somewhere else and you don't account that being rich doesn't necessarily means you're stop being productive. You see so many billionaire out there that instead of taking vacation for their whole life, they expand their business instead with the money they got.

This is an interesting argument. You are right, all trading is a zero sum game in the end. For one person to be profiting, we would need another one to lose the money. To have all these rich peoples, it takes a lot of poor people to balance it out I guess. So we can definitely become rich by owning cryptos, it is just that we eventually need to convert our trades into material things, like buying a Tesla car for 1 BTC or maybe a small apartment.

And this is why people think that they will not be able to get rich when they own a cryptocurrency. Owning a very huge amount of cryptocurrency just like ethereum or bitcoin will be able to make you rich, I've saw a lot of people who becomes so much rich just because in cryptocurrency and most of them are my classmates and they are my inspiration why I am still here in cryptocurrency and learning different ways on how I will be able to earn more.

This is the point where you are slipping down; most probably you are not right as this will take centuries of time. I mean for adopting bitcoin by each and every human being of this planet might take more than hundreds of years. At that time, bitcoin might not remain as an highly yielding investment asset but just like any other payment processor with its own currency. So, people who are adopting bitcoin may not get chances to retire earlier.

As of now, people who are retiring early and the production blockage due to that could be considered negligible as the awareness against adopting bitcoin is very low in most countries except tier 1 countries. So, we can still get chances to become rich by owning only bitcoins (yeah not with any crypto).

Your argument to some extent is right because you are looking at it from the point of the future, there is nothing like you can't be rich through crypto because even people who invest in businesses and investment is not only for being rich but for the profit that will be accrued from such investment. For example, saying going to school or having formal education will make you rich.

So you are saying that everyone will stop working once they had bitcoin, but how much bitcoin is enough for someone to consider that it is enough for our retirement?

Even if you say 1 bitcoin for a person then mathematically only 21 million people in this world will be rich and all others have to work for them?

Your argument is basically wrong and no one is going to stop working so the demand will increase and production will decrease is an imaginary thought.

I think the point is not just owning btc, yeah i agree the early adopters of btc already made fortune from it that they can afford to lay back and watch their money make more money for them, but at present, btc is quite expensive, for anyone to buy enough btc that will enable his/her retirment must be ready to throw in some good amount of money,
On the other hand, maybe buying some alts can still give such opportunity, but how many people really have the patience and zeal to hold through to the point where they can be considered a millonaire! maybe @op argument will occure some time in the far future, right now, not so many people can say they are millonaires through crypto.

crypto has been recognized as an investment asset in many countries so what the OP said is shit 'lol'...
if I bought Bitcoin last year and then sold it this year, then make sure I have become a rich person in my area. Cryptocurrencies are real, there are sellers and buyers, so people who say you will not get rich from crypto are those who have never felt money from crypto.

Well you’re right in the one of decrease in productivity, but that’s not going to happen when a few retire after they have made money through bitcoin. If you’re working in the office and you retire because you got rich through bitcoin, there is not going to be a decrease in productivity and that’s because there are already lots of people outside that are waiting to fill up that your position in the office, and once you leave that position your office management is quickly going to replace you with another talent, so it doesn’t stop the productivity, the only thing is that in some cases it might take time for them to find the right replacement, but they will definitely do that.

You would really expect to see up these kind of words because not all are really knowledgeable or truly just hate up crypto on why they do really end up on saying such thing.
Or simply they dont have any experience on making out money in crypto.IF they would look into the bigger picture then they can really see the opportunity
that it can truly gives.

Crypto could really give out that kind of opportunity or chance if you do done things well and of course it does need a little bit of luck.

The more bitcoin becomes mainstream the less it is volatile, therefore the variations in price will become smaller and smaller. You will hardly see a 707% price increase at a certain point.

You can't only be reached by owning single crypto mostly if you invest the coin does not have any future those called as dead coins. But if you got a coin that has full potential there's a chance you become rich instantly depends on the amount you invested.

If you invested with the bitcoin I guess mostly this is your coin favorite there's a chance to earn profit too this is the most volatile and active coin right now we see that the bitcoin survives the market economic crisis. If you have a chance it's good to see and grab the opportunity.

Because you don't want to be. The people who bear no common sense or trying to be extra clever both never move forward in life. Because in your life extra is always not needed to add. Some types of extra can fall you to dump. The Crypto market is naturally risky and volatile everyone knows that so if you apply some rules then you never lose in this market. If you acquire some knowledge, give some time, practice and trade when you need then you can make a profit. So how can you say that by having crypto you can't be rich?

Its ok as long as we cannot see a price decrease of 707% well that's totally fine also its quite good to have that if that would really be the outcome of the current adoption since we can avoid those huge lose and we can also assure that there's a bounce back since bitcoin already on the mainstream and many people are waiting for the dip then buy to gain profits from low to high volatility.

It is sad but true as the value of Bitcoin grow so does all of our expenses.
Foods or groceries has also been going higher and not to mention the bills so even if we feel that we have a lot of money but in reality it is still the same for most of us.

Why? Because it is not the reason why people are investing in crypto. Because if they are into that goal, they have to start buying Bitcoin earlier but that was not happening and we never know as well that Bitcoin will have this current value. If they just buy 100BTC when it was just $1 and just sell it right now, you can't really imagine how much they get. But no one does, and that no one will become rich because of just owning crypto.

Ypu are making it much more difficult than it needs to be.  Lets take the idea of the pizza from Lazlo.  In 2010 a coue pizzas and some soda cost Lazlo 10,000 bitcoin.  Today that same 10,000 bitcoins can buy you how many pizzas?  And in 10 years from now will it buy you even more pizza than it can in today's world.  If so your bitcoin you own is more valuable tomorrow than it is today making you "more rich".

Yeah, unlike most outside people do imagine, holding bitcoin is not that easier one; we need to come across lots of hassles which includes emotional failures and family members' pressure. Even if we come across them, governments bring some unexpected regulation against crypto which are directly or indirectly affect us in one way or other.

That kind of scenario never will happen; even more than half of world population will be on adopting bitcoins, we cannot expect expenses of our day-to-day life will match the price of bitcoins. Simply, there are some parts are missing in the logic mentioned by OP here.

In fact, you are rich, not only depending on Bitcoin. But Bitcoin has the ability to make your dreams get rich into reality. Currently Bitcoin prices are very high. Just hoarding multiple Bitcoin at low prices Now you can freely change live.

Interesting argument, but this assumes that every people in the whole world owns a cryptocurrency which disregards the fact that only a few possess some.

Currently, it can be argued that the people who are knowledgeable in the cryptocurrency space are not that many nor not that few. Because of its current price in the market, people are actually HODLing most of the coins awaiting for its next fork which has the potential of doubling its price yet again. Given the fact that not everyone owns crypto, this puts the person on a pedestal as this is considered as an alternative mode of investing.

they think differently after they try investing with btc . battle that i mean is mainly volatility but personal issues like you said can also affect our investment .

i think when more people use btc the price of the items are going to decrease because of less production of fiats . isnt that great ? more value for our btc  . okay i admit there are items that match the price of btc but those are non essential items that arent really needed in our day to day life .

And now you explain to me those "things that can be brought with those bitcoins would actually grow the same rate as the bitcoin"?! What is that? Can you name it?

Let's try a different approach, tell me what can we compare with Bitcoin (in terms of value increase) in the last 10 years?

If by "things" you mean tomatoes, I doubt that the value of tomatoes can have the same growth rate as Bitcoin, ever...

Silly arguments from my point of view... some "things" have an infinite supply, you can compare that with something that has limited supply! On another side for the "things" with limited supply ask yourself can those "things" be/become popular as Bitcoin can?

How many bitcoin millionaires able to retire in young age are we going to have worldwide? What percentage of their country's population are they going to be?

Even if it's 1% and this 1% of people retire early they will also be able to pay more for goods and services. They will want to build bigger houses, maybe start companies with the money they now have. They are going to pay people and give them work. How is that bad?

Bitcoin is going to become something you save up and give to your children so that they also can benefit. If I had millions of dollars in bitcoin I wouldn't sit on my butt all day but make sure I live my life to the fullest.

His idea is to advise us to act as a trader and to have goals to be more profitable.
He does not understand that most traders have lost money because of their actions and the movement of the market. The crypto market is tough, and it has always been. I have found that crypto holders always have better returns than traders. Risk in trading is more frequent.
In the art of holding crypto, just keeping the wrong crypto is considered to lose the invested amount.

Bitcoin as make you rich if you do have strong hands to hold in long time and truly believe on it. 4 years ago, back in 2017 when bitcoin reached 15K price level some people bough bitcoins are this price and let's some bitcoin haters were saying they will lose a lot if money because bitcoin will not reach this price ever again. Not after 4 years bitcoin could reach 60K and even the worst bitcoin buyers who bought bitcoin at 15K could get nice amount of profits. So, even in the worst case and even if you are not a good dip buyer bitcoin still can make rich by holding it long term. In the short words, bitcoin is ways profitable for believers and can make them rich.

At first I think the caution of the headlines the topic suppose to be, why you can't be rich when having crypto, instead of why you can't be rich by owning crypto, so relating to topic, Bitcoin is something that's not in control of any one but in control of of itself for regulations depending the standard of cryptocurrency marketcap, and its increments depends on the demands which no one can testify accurately when such will occur, because people buy Bitcoin when the price is low would have make a potential profit assuming them know exactly when will zoom up, so to be Rich in crypto its based on long time holding of cryptocurrency.

Well, you can still get rich with Bitcoin, same way you can get rich through anything that you choose to do be doing. The question after you have gotten that rich is what are you going to be doing with that money to maintain and keep the riches? One thing is it get rich and the other is to maintain that status.

If you’re getting money, but you’re careless and not doing things rat you’re meant to do, such as investing that money and creating businesses that will bring you extra money, then you’re going to lose that riches. I don’t know why anyone would get rich through Bitcoin and choose to close their sources of income, when you know for sure that you can start up a business and hire people and put someone in charge to manage it, so you can be making income .

This thread reminds me of the tweets of people who I think really stir my heart.  He said that what is difficult in these two choices?  You cannot buy 100 $ goods because you only have 10 $ or you can buy 100 $ items because your income is 1000 $.  Which of the two options is the most difficult?  The choice you make can show yourself whether you can be rich or not.  Because if you choose the former, you don't think like people who have good financial literacy.

Not necessarily true i guess. First, not all people stop working their job just because they already have some amount of bitcoin, most people still do the job, and make btc their additional income or investment. Other than that, not that many people own bitcoin actually. I guess compared to all people living in this world, for whole population, we're still minority. So even if our net worth increases, doesn't mean we don't get richer, we sure do, a bit. Because i believed not all people out there having bitcoin.

- Holding helps us to create a shield that minimizes all the risks we might face, arguably the strongest defense is still motionless and non-moving because as you say, an investor is too proactive in moving and looking for opportunities, they often fall into dangerous areas, the probability and amount will be lost per unreasonable move will be very high. However, wealth is built on such opportunities, if we only passively hold, profits can come very slowly and steadily, but wealth will have a very long distance.

Trading is in fact a zero sum game but the economy itself is not, just because someone is earning more money that does not mean that he is taking away something from the poor, and what better example than bitcoin itself, satoshi is probably the richest holder around the world but this came about his own invention, he created a market that is now worth multiple trillion dollars and that it is still growing, if it was not because of him this market would not exist at all, and most of the time this is true as well for those that are the richest people around the world.

we have to be able to admit that bitcoin and altcoins can have a great capacity to make people super rich, imagine putting 1 million dollars in bitcoin when the price was $3000 and how much money would that person have today? what other investment is capable of doing this? if that person was not able to buy a very large house, today that person would be able to buy many households, how could that person not be rich? and what made it rich was bitcoin.

in my country leave money in the bank do not give as much profit as doing day trade for example, of course day trade has high risk, but again my point is that this cryptocurrency market can make people become rich, but it is necessary to use our heads because any investment or thing we do has risks.

How does it take to trust the coin you have this is the main problem let's say you have a bitcoin and bought it into the 10k mark but you already sold it on just the 20k price it feels sad right just like the point of why not people become a millionaire on investment you can't get a big reward if you didn't make a high risk that's all it takes. If you have a lot of changes and opportunities to hold the coin go for it it's part of the nature of the person getting feared to lose their assets but it's this worthy to get out or not. It's like a decision to hold to become a millionaire or pull to prevent losing.

Bitcoin and crypto have almost completely become one of the hottest business environments this year, as I've seen their one-of-a-kind brothers get rich by owning digital assets.  This means something is still happening in reality.  Although the condition, timing and the symmetry of value over time are different.  Like any business, bitcoin has the potential to get rich or fail.  Even Bill Gate is almost completely out of the bitcoin war.  Those who truly believe in this innovation will bring value by owning and holding their own bitcoins.

I think there is a need and want that some people talk about something with big bold headlines to get more attention instead of other calmer methods. If you write a topic called "this is why bitcoin will be one million dollars this year" and then you talk about how it may not reach there but it could definitely reach there because it has no regulations so if someone comes in and buys 200 billion dollars worth of bitcoin that could very well happen too, so you are talking about a huge "what if" but you present the title like "it will!!!" so that you get more attention.

This is a method that people in marketing use, it gets more clicks, it is a cheesy and cheap method but it works so well, people are idiots and they click on those big headlines and that gets more attention. That is why I think you can get rich by owning crypto but you may not as well of course.

Greedy is one way one way why still have any people not be success on cryptocurrency, some time when they have big chance to get profit still wait and hold without try to sell, after price dump they panic for cut loss and sell on lower price, if manage with good think like selling coin after get profit more than 5% or 10%, but always hold because wait to get profit more than 300% and hold until lower price.

You have drawn a possible scenario between the massive adoption of bitcoin and the economy. If fulfilled the possibilities are remote because there is no single thought. We all think differently, there are people who can invest in bitcoin and others not. There are various cryptocurrency investors who also prefer altcoins, trade, or hold.

Bitcoin is the first crypto and is leading the market because it has earned the trust of investors of all kinds. I believe that investors are not looking to get richer with bitcoin but to protect their capital. Because the time we are living is atypical and we are taking advantage of it to evolve. There will be much to take care of in addition to the capitals as all the problems that afflict the planet.

You can't be rich by owning crypto currency if you don't know how to use it or how to invest it to make more profit or income in the future because if you want to earn more money or if you want to be rich some day using your crypto currency you need to use it and invest it in the trusted project and in that way you can make a good profit.

You can get rich with bitcoin if you have a lot of it or if you buy now and you hodl it for a long time and then bitcoin price becomes astronomically high, I agree that bitcoin doesn't make you rich but it is a powerful tool to help build your wealth.

even though we have a little crypto, but we are good at analyzing, I think it will be easier for us to develop our assets when measured in usd. therefore don't get stuck on shitcoins, because it can make our waiting in vain

The way of someone thinking and treating that crypto can make him rich is the problem. Most people specially the newbies out there are already imagining to gain and own crypto to the thinking that having one can make them instant rich which is not true because you still have lots of works to do even after owning a crypto. It is how you manage to make use of it and also the capability you have to make your capacity improve on managing the full potential of the crypto you are owning. The problem is the mindset of the people thinking that it is just a simple logic that owning a crypto makes you capable of being rich.

and when they suffer losses because of their carelessness, they say "crypto scam!" classic scenarios that often leave me speechless.

I always remind my friends who are just learning crypto because they want to get instant money, this is not as easy and beautiful as imagined. maybe we see a lot of successful cryptocurrency traders or investors, but we don't know how much struggle and loss they have experienced, right?
often, what is shown is only the good things. then we have to change our concepts and views, everything needs a process, there are things that must be learned to get something valuable, don't just hope for miracles.

Obviously not everyone will pertake in crypto even if it keeps growing in population and more people keeps comming in there will still be people who won't have the opportunity to make it out from crypto and also remember earning from crypto needs knowledge as well, in the bull run everybody can make profit from crypto and when the bear season comes only those who knows much about the market will keep being in profits, most people today don't trust any online activities and would ignorantly walk away from crypto activities as well therefore there will always be people who would work to make money, prices of commodities might increase but those who are rich will  keep affording it and since thier source of income isn't drying up there would even be more richer as the times goes.

I don't think it is not necessary for each and every adopter; I mean every people who are owning crypto must be contributing in one not another way for the further development of this crypto space. But, not necessarily in the ways you have mentioned because innovating and maximizing the full potential of crypto will not be feasible for all of us but only for people who are familiar about those things.

Hence, people who are already into such things might be taking care of what you are emphasizing and most others are just contributing for the progress of this crypto space by just owning. But, I feel all of them deserve to be rich based on their holding periods.

I feel that it's not their mistake because crypto has performed in such a way to make everyone believe to be rich just by holding for years. Who knows, when bitcoin will be scaling one million dollar levels, people who are holding less than 0.1 BTC also might be finding themselves richer in their countries.

It's so true, most of people I know thinking of cryptocurrencies in general as get-rich-quick scheme and they too think that owning crypto will automatically make them rich somehow which isn't true and most of the people who have that kind of mindset always ended up buying high selling low then rage quit lol and there's never been of shortage with newbies that are really thirsty of being rich and have that kind of uncontrollable greed. I just hope that they eventually could really differentiate high risk investment and low risk investment.

Well, I don't see any problem if someone thinks crypto makes him rich because it really does, however, of course, you need to work out for more just like working hard for cash. Because crypto or fiat is just all a tool or a reward like if you work hard then you will receive what you deserved. Thinking of single crypto is enough and a shortcut for being rich, and I think that is the problem that most newbies. Single amount of crypto doesn't make you rich, you must have possessed a lot of them to consider yourself rich, so basically, you gotta earn a lot of them.

Some people using the crypto to scam amateurs, that's why some of them didn't get rich because of ponzi, We know that if person is new in this cryptocurrencies they propably amazed how you explain what would you earn. But it takes time to fulfill that, well depends if your lucky in investing.

Yes, you have a point. From small capital you can make it bigger if you use it wisely but it doesn't mean that you will become rich by just owning a small crypto. You need to invest big to earn big profit and to become rich you need to double or even triple your investment. Of course, enough knowledge and strategy is always needed.

amateurs looks easy how to be victim scam because they only know with bitcoin and altcoin without know detail how to earn and get income with cryptocurrency, when any scammer make new investment project and payment using bitcoin many people believe and want to invests their money although giving daily percent profit every day.

Scammers are everywhere and we cannot do anything about that unless otherwise taking care of ourselves in all means. Because, scammers are really dangerous not only for beginners but even for experienced people as well. So being careful is the only solution here.

But what OP is stating here is, because of bitcoin people are retiring early and not contributing on the growth of the economic which might again turn against them like more inflation due to less productivity because of more number of early retiring people. But I'm not seeing it is a practical one but it is an over-imagined one hence I believe we can simply leave off this because it is not practically dealing with the current of scenarios happening around bitcoiners.

The idea that bitcoin making people richer would destroy the working force is the problem with the rich people in the world (and people who love rich people). Just because everyone is rich doesn't mean that work force will have to be eradicated, there will always be people who work, and the humanity will be much better if nobody has to work, you know why? Because we could finally have a world where everyone does what they want to do and not what they are forced to do, which will help the humanity grow at a much faster speed in tech and art and medicine and basically many many different things.

So at the end of the day, you need workers? Go build an android, not like we wouldn't be able to if we had everyone free to do what they want, it will become easier. Which is why bitcoin helping everyone to get richer is a great way to improve all of humanity.

It's a fair and logical point, but only if almost everyone on Earth buys Bitcoin and becomes rich, which is, obviously, impossible. There is a limited amount of Bitcoins and, in addition, different people hold a different number of coins, some may have 1-2 and some hold more than 1000. Thanks to the limited amount of Bitcoins and diverse demand - Bitcoin will keep growing with increasing adoption.
Also, this can only be the case, once again, if literally everyone (or the vast majority) uses Bitcoin, only then there can be an impact on global productivity.

I do not think that limited supply of bitcoin is a criteria here. Because, due to limited supply people who hold bitcoin will become super rich in short period which again goes in favor of what OP is stating. But, I am not seeing OP's point and fair and logical. OP's point will play a role on our economy when at least 25% to 40% world population become rich (NOT just adopting bitcoins) and refuse to work more. Even there are possibilities for more than 50% of world population to adopt bitcoins, I doubt all 50% will retire early after becoming rich, the chances will be less. Because not all adopters are holding; may be less than 10% of total adopters.

If we use bitcoins then there will be no problem. Because, you may become rich by holding and not just by using bitcoins. In long-term perspective, there are possibilities for all 100% of world population will be using bitcoins but that doesn't mean that bitcoin will make them rich just because of they are using bitcoins.

Richness and bitcoin topics always come when the market is bullish especially for as long as year or more and we forget the long bear market. Our decision to pick up the coin when no one wants to buy and hold for as long as we make remarkable profit is the mindset that most rich people possess and still applicable for every most successful investments, businesses and enterprises. Real estate may not have the size of ROI on investment as cryptocurrency but the ability to buy low and sell high and hold your money to buy another day is same with cryptocurrency.

If you were like 10 years ahead of us from investing in Bitcoin, you are probably a millionaire. Who says you can't when the fact that there are many early investors who owned Bitcoin in 2011 and having their best lives now due to their massive holdings. And even if everyone adopts, not all will have the same value of money they have due to price difference before they bought.

i am very interested in the title of this thread. why can't we get rich with cryptocurrency? I've heard the words that fit the title "HOLDER IS WINER"
most people after getting tokens from airdrop or bounti they immediately sell them even though the price is not much. if they hold on for a longer period of time, it is likely that the money they will earn will be much greater.

Purely theoretically, such a chain of events is possible. But for this, a significant part of the population must be the owners of significant amounts in bitcoin. Let's roughly imagine what amount can become a "trigger" that will lead to this behavior, and then look at the statistics of wallets in which there are such amounts? For example $ 50,000-100,000 is the amount at which a person will "retire" at 50 years old. To be clear - 100,000 / (30 years * 12 months) (estimated life expectancy after retirement) = $ 280 per month. Tell me - is this an acceptable amount for life? I am sure - NO! It seems to me that for a quiet life, if you do not take expensive countries, the monthly amount will be 2000-3000 dollars per month. So the equivalent will be 30 * 12 * 3000 = approximately $ 1,000,000. And so - how many wallets with such amounts? Several thousand, perhaps tens of thousands. Such a number of people will not be able to influence the economy even on a country with 5-10 million citizens.

I agree that due to limited supply hodlers will become rish, but that doesn't go in favor of OP's assumption, because only the ones that hodl a lot of Bitcoins will become rich enough to retire and stop working. And that's not possible due to the limited supply. Assuming when we reach the 21 million bitcoins point and everyone has 1 Bitcoin, that'll only be around 0,3% of the world population, which is hardly enough to have an impact on the economy. But even in such case people won't stop working, because 1 BTC isn't such a big money. Needless to say, this scenario isn't possible, because some people will hodl way more than 1 Bitcoin, leaving less to the others.

Yeah, you're right herein, I shouldn't have used the term use, I meant hold.
But there's not enough for everyone to hold and, therefore, be rich, that's my point  :)

Most faster way to be rich with cryptocurrency like you have much money first and try to trade, looking with potential coin to buy like BNB, ETH and Ripple I think just one week later you will be rich person, but need time if begin with little fund for trading or investing because how much profit earn from crypto depend how much money we have when beginning trade.

Yes, that is the point. Only a very small percentage of the world's population will be hugely benefited by bitcoin increasements in price. They are the early adopters. Once bitcoin goes mainstream it won't be so profitable as speculative asset for most adopters anymore as the biggest chunks of coins will be already held, so the masses will have to dispute remaining satoshis portions.
It makes too difficult for late adopters to retire younger like early adopters did through bitcoin investment, not affecting global productivity too much like mentioned in OP's example. On the other hand, it's a normal tendency global productivity is being fully replaced by machines/automatons, what makes human labor useless, creating an employment vacumm in the future for these people. It's a big issue no one talks about...

I believe that all coins are still undervalued. So I am confident that by owning a good coin will make us rich.. We just have to be patient on holding and we just have to know when to enter the market.
So it is important to know how to read charts so we can buy on the dip. Then sell high.

That is speaking in assumption that people aren't going to work because they have enough money to live out the rest of their life, I mean there are going to be more people that are going to retire early but I am sure that not everyone is going to do that, maybe some will even have their own busines and businesses create jobs. Also, crypto is not that big part of the economy yet to make that huge impact, maybe if there is about 60 to 70 percent of people have adopted, maybe we can say that it will affect the economy.

Not everyone will be rich if they have cryptocurrency, because the main purpose of cryptocurrency is not to make people rich. Only people who
can be patient buying cryptocurrencies for long-term investments can get rich from cryptocurrencies. So do not take it wrong, cryptocurrency
won't make us rich instantly, requires a long process so that we can get rich from cryptocurrency. Therefore having cryptocurrency will not
guarantee you to be rich.

I agree with this position. Only the long term perspective of investing in cryptocurrency and bitcoin will make you rich. Remember, that fiat currencies can be printed in unlimited quantities. And the amount of bitcoin is limited and, moreover, is reduced due to the lost coins.

But be careful not all cryptocurrencies are good for long-term investing, only the top cryptocurrencies and have high volume which is good
for long-term investments. So if we choose the wrong coins, it is not getting rich if HODL is in the long run, but the coins are increasingly worthless.
So make sure to do research first on the coins that we will buy for long-term investments. For Bitcoin it is definitely highly recommended holding
in the long term, I mean to be careful if we choose to invest in altcoins. Because not all altcoins are good to buy and can make us rich.

If someone was not skilled in anything and gave bitcoin a chance by investing a few dollars in it how would it reduce or increase productivity?

Not forgetting the high unemployment levels growing everywhere....you know what bitcoin is doing these guys a favor...and by the way when you cash in those coins you have other opportunities to try out and not that you lay low and do nothing!!!

Are you saying everyone will become rich for prices to rise? And how do you connect prices of commodities to bitcoins supply and demand,you lost him here.

So not true, bitcoins supply is limited which means not everyone will own the same amount of coins, and afaik the real winners in all this are the early adopters who still hodl some crypto, so even if 1btc was to be a million dollars, how many people will own a bitcoin when this happens.

I believe that you are right to some extent and your vision of the state of affairs with BTC is quite a reality. The fact is that money is being inflated right now, that is, if you have 1,000,000 USD, then every month you can buy fewer goods for this money. It turns out that when the price of BTC rises, you have more money, but since inflation is present, they reduce this growth, thereby making your profit not what you think. That being said, do not forget that the price of BTC is also very volatile and this also negatively affects your profit. So your model is quite real and it is likely that it will become more difficult to make money on BTC every day.

Getting rich is a process and takes a very long time and even then it is supported by capital and efforts to accumulate wealth and hold it until the right time.
because we are in this crypto industry and nothing is instantaneous and through the process to produce maximum results even then it is supported by large capital to create large profits and besides that it requires patience and strong consistency towards goals, and this applies to any investment.
and for the Profits that can be created to create business or create jobs without having to forget the original goal to keep Investing.

Precisely getting rich is a long time process and how it happen was all depend on how you effort to reach that goal. Actually, cryptocurrency can be a promising newest mode of currency that would be existed and can be treat as a good fortune that a person could ever had but having cryptocurrency couldn't promise an easy way to get rich because like having or running a real business you should have to know how to play the market, how to trade, to invest and must knowledgeable about crypto market.

- Agree, owning crypto is only a meaningless act when we do not know the purpose and how to optimize the meaning of this action, similar to how we own a business but do not know what we are doing, do not update relationships and do not know information about our surrounding partners, we are clearly just a puppet. Getting rich from crypto is a process where we have to maximize our capital and opportunities through our knowledge of this market, a king needs to control and formulate strategies, otherwise, the nation will gradually weaken and be forced to change the throne

I agree with you. But we have no other choice. For bitcoin to have its own value, you first need to destroy those things through which we value it, namely fiat. And it is impossible to destroy it now. How much time will pass and what kind of symbiosis all this will result in is unknown. But it doesn't look like we will be able to get rid of classical financial structures in the near future.

If you're talking about, why don't we get rich holding crypto? the answer I will give is how rich do you want to be because everyone has their own level of wealth. If you describe wealth as something you can buy without thinking about it. For me it is wrong because everyone has their own rich principles.

The classical financial system is fully supported by the government, so there will be many political interests in it. therefore I think it is very difficult to shift it. crypto can be recognized as a legal means of payment that I think is a good achievement. Especially with the current development of crypto, I think the government cannot underestimate it

I agree with you, if rich means for you owning a house and a nice car than both of these things can be bought with crypto currencies. We can get a Tesla for one bitcoin, and there are people who sell their house for bitcoins. It all depends on how we define rich. If rich means owning a big company than this might be more difficult to achieve with crypto currencies.

stale theory where we can't control a strategy like this to know when to enter, and when to leave the market for a while. How do you buy low and sell high as you say it?

The definition of rich in crypto is the increase in value of the assets we have, for example, bitcoin. Buying Bitcoin at $ 1k a few years ago and then selling it at $ 60k would make a fortune and get rich with the asset.

But it is not that easy to get rich in crypto, there will be many sacrifices that must be made. there will be gains and losses on every trip in crypto. Easy to get and also easy to lose.

Looks like he's kidding man, Rich does not mean you have millions of Bitcoin and store them until now, even though they can all be made into paper money, but the real wealth in my opinion is not like that. If you can give what you have to people in need without thinking about the amount you are spending, that is more accurately the meaning of wealth. Hope he understands.

The risk is high compared to other forms of investments. To the risk taken, there is possible chances of being rich in a short time period. This is why cryptocurrency is a much preferred asset for being rich. People also need to be lucky to invest on the right cryptocurrency, because we've got more than 9000 cryptocurrencies. In my learning one can turn himself rich through cryptocurrency investment, if he has the patience to hold for years and the ability to invest a minimum amount of $500 every month.

I'm not ready to accept this because we are having bitcoin and we are well aware of bright future of bitcoin through its fundamental analysis; so any new investor does not need to be lucky to invest in cryptocurrency as bitcoin is more than enough for making anyone feel lucky right now and then making rich in near future.

Again with bitcoins, we  do not need big money to invest on monthly basis. But, you must need to be patience enough for years by holding bitcoins to become rich.

Well you have no idea because bitcoin and crypto have changed my life for the better, in earning through staking every months and also I'm mining too, the money I made every month is not something I can ever earn if I work for the government in my country