Bitcoin Forum

There are people currently like this today, as there was 8 years ago. Nocoiners. How long must the network run before they can admit that Bitcoin, and the idea of Bitcoin, has opened a Pandora’s Box, never to close again.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EykRFOzWgAEDL7-?format=png&name=medium

How high must Bitcoin’s price go before they accept it as a self-sovereign Store of Value, HODLed as a hedge in case the Fed/Central Bank, and the government loses control of the financial system?

Surely they don't need Bitcoin to make good money. It reminds me of when people criticize Buffet and Munger for their views on Bitcoin, but you have to remember that they don't need it to get rich.

On the other hand, the bit about how in their firm they spend all day laughing at that reddit subforum sounds like trolling to me. That person may not even work on the firm he says and is writing from his mom's basement while eating Doritos.

But, finally, yeah, there are many people in denial following the principle: don't let reality to spoil your theories.

Everything is this market is cyclical, no coiners doubting it  many years ago and still is up to this time. Nevertheless, bitcoin has proven them wrong in those years and yet they are still skeptics. And this is going to continue regardless of what the price will be in the end, $100k you will hear them talking about it not a good store of value. At $1 million per pop? still the same argument.

It’s completely wrong to think that someone has to change their mind just because Bitcoin is worth $60 000 today, and 8 years ago it was worth a few hundred dollars. It’s not a matter of price or blockchain, such people will always find a reason to have a negative opinion - some people are just like that and will never change their mind.

I personally know people who consider Bitcoin a scam which will fail sooner or later, they thought so 5 years ago, and they think so today - and when they ask me what’s going on with BTC, I tell them it really failed - time is too precious to we spend it on such people. The only difference that may exist then and now may be in their subconscious, before they really believed it was a scam, today they don't really believe it anymore, but they try to keep the idea alive - it's easier than admitting that they were wrong.

After all, how many of these nocoiners are paid to shill the existing financial system?

"how high must the price go"  (facepalm)

its not the price that sets it as being a good store of value
its the utility of being a store of value that makes it a good store of value

if it costs $5+ to make a transaction..average joe wont will like using it as a store of value for part of their wage
even if it has a 'store of value' status
yep even if gold is a store of value. if people are going to be charged $5 just to get hold of gold above its price. they are not going to want to handle it any any daily/weekly income amount

you might find institutions hoarding large amounts to dilute the fee down to sub percentages. but normal average joe people wont bother with it if it costs them $5 to swap ownership of say $100 amounts.
its not about waiting for a market price to declare 'store of value'
its about the trust/confidence and the underlying value(not market price) and the cost of utility that decides if something is a viable store of value

anyone asking "how high must the price go to" is very much a person that is playing the highschool economics tulip game and not understanding the underlying utility that creates true 'store of value' status.. because their mindset is purely on price spikes and bubbles and ATH's
...
i am pre-empting the usual rebuttal of advertising another network as the solution to the fee problem
anyone thinking that co-signing token payments are 'sovereign' needs to learn what sovereign means and how co-signing tokens is not anything like sovereign utility

no.. locking up gold to play with digital certificates/bonds/promissory notes is not the same as owning gold
no.. locking up btc to play with millisat htlc is not the same as owning btc

bitcoin can become a good store of value when it keeps a good underlying support no one wants to sell below and where it can be moved/transacted without huge fee's

at the moment its not a average joe/unbanked store of value. but a institutional reserve store of value.

There will be always people who never admit the benefit of bitcoin. So I believe even when bitcoin price goes to infinity, those people will still stick to obsolete investment and the outdated monetary system. Maybe those people are not smart enough to understand the concept of decentralization and globalization in a whole different scale. Afraid to change definitely makes them miss a lot of opportunity in their life.

Well, just keep on buying bitcoin and cryptocurrency. Who knows? maybe one day I will be rich enough to change those people' perspective

Nice catch OP, have to say I've seen my fair share of old posts but this one really takes the juice on many levels.

Be super interesting to see where these traders are at today, probably also riding high since last year with stock markets hitting ATHs in various bourses but they'd probably be envious of what Bitcoin's done in the same span of time.

Better still, how many of them have gone to the other side;)

Bitcoin going higher actually doesn't change the perspective of nocoiners, it might even make them double down on their belief that Bitcoin is a bubble. The only thing that can change their minds if more adoption from institutions that they respect - notable investors, economists, governments, their favorite financial guru, etc.

Lol. Laughing stock, eh?

If these are people who are diehard fans of fiat, then it is very clear who is really laughing right now. But who cares if they are laughing at us? We are the ones making money by just sitting pretty doing nothing but wait. And we are not economists nor graduates of the best universities, etc. We are just believers.

They are obviously just bitter, trying to sweet lemons, either because they were not able to buy during the cheap days or because their fiat is now being threatened or even laughed at.

The current adoption made by billionaire is a gamechanger and I believe those who laugh then think about bitcoin is a bubble are now slowly changinv their minds about it since imagine how big the profitability rate it got even since before for sure those economist and other bodies are been little attract on whats going on bitcoin.

Haters gonna hate and trolls gonna keep trolling...Let them do what they are going.
Nocoiners and Bitcoin haters will continue to hate,even when the Bitcoin price hits 100K or 200K USD.
Should we pay attention to the trolls?Nope,we are feeding the trolls with our attention.Do not feed the trolls..
I'm a Bitcoin maximalist and I don't like the altcoin market,but having competition is supposed to be good,even though Bitcoin doesn't have any competitors. :-\

if you say bitcoin is your joke and you make it your company's laughing stock it is very wrong ... because now people are already using bitcoin as their investment and trading tool. maybe with the increasing number of bitcoin users maybe other companies feel afraid because they will unable to compete with bitcoin ... I am sure that the more laughing bitcoin is, bitcoin will continue to advance

"a real currency trader"  ok, i believe you ;D  A troll just having a good time trolling people on reddit. I bet the user who made that thread, probably some basement dwelling bastard, recently realized that the value of btc was sub $5k not too long ago and now they're pissed thinking how they missed a once in a lifetime opportunity investing in btc. That or they're just a shitcoiner holding bags of worthless alts

There are still many people in this world who believe bitcoin is a waste of time and money. But these kind of people were always there and they will remain as it is! The most notable one is probably Mr. Buffet. In reality, he could have multiplied his wealth by few thousand percentage if he had believed in bitcoin.

These are the people that gives us the pleasure of winning against all odds. So they are also essential in this eco system.

guys the topic creator has a known presence in the forum for trying to poke

he purposefully found a 8 year old reddit post to set a debate
key facts are in 2013 the only exchanges were btc-e, bitstamp, mtgox. and mtgox was going through its lock-in and close down drama

so yea in 2021 context it looks like the topic is about wallstreet damning bitcoin. but in context of 2013 if someone that only knows about bitcoin via news of mtgox drama

most of the comments from no-coiners are about price and exchange drama.. nothing at all to do with the understanding of bitcoin itself. heck even the topic creator wants to spin it into a price discussion. which makes him no better than no-coiners

Well I think it's not about the price but it's ability to be accepted as a payment method. People will keep talking on the speculation part for decades.
But when bitcoin is accepted widely as a payment method only then will such people realize that bitcoin is indeed the real deal.
The decentralized cryptocurrency can indeed be used for payments across the globe. It's just a matter of WHEN and until that such people will keep criticizing bitcoin.

I think bitcoin price will not down anymore. Few years ago  Bitcoin price was lower 1$-100$. You can see  now bitcoin price is average $55k-$59k.Those who don’t know about bitcoin to them it would seem like a joke.So i think bitcoin price will be continued.

I have one thing to say to all the doubters, all the people who criticised us for HODLING during the bear markets & refused to buy -

Have fun staying poor.

I agree, and to add I know people who have been dead set against it up until this year
when they decided, yes its OK to buy now. Its like they need proof that its a viable
thing, and what better proof than the market price.

Those people from years back who are still outwardly against Bitcoin but secretly
wish they bought it instead of point blankly dismiss it, I call them 'Wishcoiners'

This doubt arises because bitcoin is a relatively young asset, although currently developer have succeeded in making it a very safe asset as a store of value and long-term investment. I thought people were only considering the risks to bitcoin as an investment asset but no one knew that we were going to go through a big bull cycle in 2021.

It's pointless to say we are disappointed because never really believed in the potential that bitcoin has, and the main reason is that not everyone is built to be brave enough to make decision about thing that have the potential to be financially detrimental. Bitcoin (trading or investing) has been a high-risk asset from the time it was launched until now, and anyone who dare to accept that risk will enjoy it.

Every one of those will say that bitcoin is more volatile or it would go to zero. Just look into this: indian stock investors lose Rs 9 lakh crore in one day (https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/stocks/news/stock-investors-lose-rs-7-lakh-crore-in-15-minutes-key-factors-hurting-dalal-street/articleshow/82025043.cms) and still they'll say that bitcoin isn't having such potentials or more volatile market than others which is ridiculous.  ;D ;D Let them keep saying this and we'll be on the long drive for moon.  ;)

Bitcoin doesn't have to prove anything with those close minded people. I bet that when bitcoin has reached $20k, they've already joined and have a thought that they're all wrong with what they've said but chose to kept silent. Those doubters are probably feeling sorry that they've ignored bitcoin years back and didn't bought any amount of it. Well, as they say, we still have the last laugh while them probably are thinking of it every night that they've wasted those years of opportunity to buy it at a huge discount.

You stated in previous posts , you hold no bitcoins, does that not make you a nocoiner?

If you truly believed in bitcoin , why do you refuse to hold any?
Honestly wondering.

*Laughs in Gamestop Craze*. Investing firms are basically just legalized corruption offices where people call in to get their money stolen from them, so to actually hear this from someone no different from a criminal is quite funny. At the very least we have a very strong price resistance that can't easily be dialed back to zero, unlike some hedge funds out there that literally got finessed over by self-proclaimed retards from Reddit. Keep holding diamond hands.

So much has changed with Bitcoin, and so many fortunes were made and lost because of Bitcoin. But the last laugh has got to be from the the people who believed in Bitcoin from the very beginning. Those who bought even a handful of crypto are now living comfortable lives. Those who are late at the party in 2017 were able to multiply their profits 5 or 6 fold. Now the late comers will also hope that in a few years, Bitcoin will rise up to 300,000 dollars and will be the master of all digital assets.

I think bitcoin is choice! Or may I say everybody has their own choice whether to talk by our side or against us. They might not be techie guys, or they don't love the change. It could be possible that they are from the world or mindset where the change is not acceptable to them. In every situation we see opposition so I believe that we need not take them seriously.

Those who are in it will get benefited, those who are not won't! Its that simple formula. I see no point in reading the technological advancements in front of goons!  ;)

Are they really? I'm always skeptical though. Why would someone who finds something a "joke" waste their time so much on that "joke". For example I consider altcoins a joke so I don't spend any time telling people in the altcoin community they are wasting their time on that "joke", why would I?

In my opinion, all of those who spend time telling us we are making a mistake are spreading FUD and are already accumulating bitcoin themselves.

You know, some of these people are still at the beginning phase of disruption where they laugh at you for your stance on a new innovative technology. (The same thing was said about the first vehicles, when people used horses as transport and also the first digital photos, when people still used Kodak film)  ;)

Let you be that person who will laugh in the end, when Bitcoin become a mainstream currency. Do what I do with the no-coiners... just smile at them, when they make all those ridiculous statements and tell them.. "See you at the next all-time-high"  ;D

Debatable. Because who would be willing to use something as a Medium of Exchange if it had no value? Why would I, or anyone else, want to accept a thing of no value as payment? Plus an example. Bcash has more “utility” because of higher throughout as a Medium of Exchange, but why does Bitcoin hold more value?


Use your computer, and go find the meaning of the word “Sarcasm”.

Are you Kohas887’s friend? How is he?

We didn't know the changes that will happen in the future so we tend to be doubtful. Maybe this is just the beginning of the rise of crypto and what we currently see is just the starting line for bitcoin, the people who laughed back then are now begging to get in.

One reason why they want to get in is because of the USD value due to the money printing to which Saylor describes as a melting block of ice. The list of known wealthy individuals who had invested in BTC right now had openly said to the public including Paris Hilton that they had bought BTC.

If they still are not up to protect their wealth today, the government will just take their money away in the form of printing trillions into the economy which will eventually turn it into melted ice. Zimbabwe is an example.
But most importantly, BTC is a better store of value that can be sent instantly unlike Gold that stock market guys are trying to buy this time.

The idea of bitcoin is absurd for them, they think that it will never work nor gain value. Several years to the present and I think all of us will agree that bitcoin has drastically gained value as well as popularity. People are beginning to recognize bitcoin for what it is, a decentralized coin that can be used by anyone as long as they have access to the digital platform. I guess people like that are skeptical of bitcoin because of its volatility, unlike Fiat which is stable and highly accessible to the public.

Maybe bitcoin is a laughing stock for others before but not at this time. If those people look at bitcoins value now from just a single or even a cent from the past ten years , then I think they can't laugh now instead they will amazed. Also I believe that those who laugh at bitcoin are now one of bitcoins investor. Pandemic is not a joke and bitcoin stand as financial institution because fiat has lose it's value. Just think of bitcoin now, is it laughable or valuable?

I wouldn't blame them. They just don't understand what bitcoin is and how it works. I believe the real problem for them is their inability to understand the concept of decentralization. I guess they have been so used to the centralized authority of the finance that they are blind to see that there's a better way for finance.
You really can't do much concerning this other than subtly showing and proving to them what bitcoin is and how it works. If, however it gets to a point where they are not ready to listen anymore, it is advisable that you keep your views to yourself.

Some people have serious problems, although I wouldn’t blame some of them because they do so out of experience they have had in the past, but there are those who are just plain dumb and no matter what they are not going to understand it and they are going to keep saying trash about it, while some are also those that are angry that they missed the train and they are now saying trash just bring it down so that no one will be interested in, which is definitely not going to happen, they are just running around for nothing.

When you see such people you shouldn’t be trying to convince them about anything, don’t stress yourself about them, just focus on yourself and do your thing. Nobody said they are not seeing how Bitcoin has been progressing, they have just decided to be dumb. So, leave them.

They posted it 8 years ago. I suspect they had a nice laugh when it hit 1000 dollars in 2013 and then 20 thousand and then 60 thousand :D
If you went to their firm today with a bitcoin shirt on you would be able to hear teeth grinding and nails being bitten off.

There's one thing they're right about. Most bitcoin traders don't know what they're doing and are blinded by dreams of big money. They want money here and now and it hurts them.

This would simply made my day if I was there during that time but for me it is a waste of time to try to even argue with them as they could either be a troll or just a person who isn't open-minded at all. Spending your time arguing with them is something that you must not really focus on as Bitcoin time and time again would just make them eat their own words just like how JP Morgan and other companies have changed their views towards the crypto industry and Bitcoin in particular. At least now people who have believe Bitcoin during the early days are sitting safely on a profit while these guys from 8 years ago might now be trying to buy Bitcoin at 60,000$ a piece.

^ I don't think real currency traders would tell that. The fact that he is currently working in a firm, probably he knew how finance works. Even if they do not need it to get rich, they still know the core and fundamentals of cryptocurrency. Something that they can take advantage of. They are actually the ones who could use bitcoin for their professional staff. Nevertheless, probably this is not legit and I dont think professionals have that much time to hate.

Yes, it's 8 years ago and no wonder people thought that way actually, and things changed already, people grow up and might learn new things, so i guess no need to hate or look down on someone's opinion from 8 years ago. Maybe that time, earning and selling btc is the best way, they have no idea it will be this high so they don't really believe in the concept of holding, who knows right?

I was merely TROLLING, the troll. 8)


I’m the stupid one in the forum. I already told everyone to never listen to me. They should listen to the smart people like you and Knoas556


Tman? The person Kohas689 has been accusing me of being an alt-account of? I’m actually the doppelganger of franky1. You can call me franky2. 8)


Do you have more to add before I report your post?

Nope, 12 year olds are supposed to cry to their mommy when they can't handle a situation.

Feel Free.  :)

I would have that thought that any genuine FX trader would be all over Bitcoin, purely for the volatility.

It might even save money on leverage fees.

Really, do look it up. When you do, you will realize that the "investor" comparing it to Bitcoin either knows nothing about Tulip mania, nothing about Bitcoin, or both.

How many more years must the Bitcoin protocol run before the nocoiners accept it? How many more years must Bitcoin continue to accrue value before it’s not “Tulip Mania 2.0”? 20 more years? 30 years? If Bitcoin “died”, do the nocoiners actually believe that the idea of Bitcoin and its ethos will simply go away?

Its not that their aren't open minded, they just don't know how to make sense out of bitcoin because conventional market is ingrained in their core that it challenges their beliefs and we all know that when people have their beliefs challenged, they tend to disagree with the facts and they disregard the potential of something.

i don't think this has anything to do with bitcoin or how long or strong it is going to run for because it wouldn't make any difference for those who spread this type of FUD in the end.

lets look at the reasons why they spread FUD.
they are either traders who want to swing the market in the direction they wish to, for example when they have some short positions open and wish to see them filled so that they can make profit so they spread FUD as much as they can to make people panic sell. they will never stop.
the others are big centralized corrupted actors who feel threatened by bitcoin's existence and will continue pushing the FUD as long as their corrupt business is afloat. as soon as they go under their FUD stops too.

not surprising, but aren't there always people like that when a new idea, technology or other stuff that are out of the ordinary? I wonder what the person behind the post thinks of bitcoin now.

also, I doubt the price of bitcoin would change the mind of these kinds of people.

To be honest, I don't even want them to accept Bitcoin. These are greedy profit-focused people and entities that were skeptical about Bitcoin for years no matter how high it rose. They were blind to it before, and they'll happily dump Bitcoin when they see fit if they start investing in it. They're unreliable and will not become a part of the community, and they won't care about anything that Bitcoin offers apart from its price dynamics. And when they start taking it seriously as their source of profit, they'll probably push for regulations that favor their companies but put independent Bitcoin investors and traders at some disadvantage. To hell with these guys.

Debatable. After FUD, comes acceptance. Give it 50 years, and Bitcoin wouldn’t be “something new” and something misunderstood anymore, and many of the FUDsters have probably have died, have retired, or have given up. The financial system might also have evolved to onboard it within the system.