Bitcoin Forum

A lifelong politician who couldn’t get a job as a Walmart greeter, wants to raise your taxes. This tax proposal is insane. I wouldn’t blame people for leaving America if this comes to pass. It certainly would be worth it for many Bitcoiners and possibly even large corporations like Microstrategy & Tesla. You would have to be stupid to think this is good for the future of American competitiveness in global finance.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/biden-to-propose-nearly-doubling-capital-gains-tax-for-wealthy-report-2021-04-22

Don't worry it's only for "Wealthy Americans", not all men and women created by...go...you know...you know the thing.

For the rich or not the rich, that capital gain tax rate is too much.

It's the damn HODLER cult... apparently they got to Biden somehow and made him propose the tax to encourage hodling.

Oh well. There goes my Lambo.

This is not a good way to grow the economy. The additional taxes will force investors to use a higher discount rate (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dcf.asp) when making investment decisions. This will lead to less money being invested into businesses, including wages for employees.

This is not just for gains on bitcoin by the way, it is for all investment gains, long term and short term.

 Seems like the Biden administration is buying into their own rhetoric.  The economy is obviously overheating and therefore ripe for the picking.

Biden: “The first two months of our administration, we’ve created more jobs than the first two months of any administration in American history.”

At first I felt it was just a mere mind games but now I get it this is pure politics and you all know politics is a game of interest, a meeting has been held and everything has been discussed before it’s been said to limelight and media, either it is for the rich or not i personally don’t buy that idea.

From now on America won't produce any millionaires if they want to collect half of their earnings in the name of tax. Tesla already announced that they will be moving when the increase in corporation tax was proposed so yes people who stays in America will be called as stupid.

Biden wants China to become the superpower? ::)

Trump wanted to cut the taxes (and I believe he did), shrink the government and just before covid19 the unemployment numbers were at record low in the US history. Then even though I don't believe the election results, one way or another Biden came to the office and now he is raising taxes. Coincidence? I think not.

I am not American and normally I shouldn't care but since whatever it is the Americans do to their people, my government officials usually copy it (only the bad ones) and that means if you raise the taxes and then I'll also get higher taxes. If the Americans print money then our money printer will print x10 of that.

It is a race to bottom.

Go Biden Go.

How many people using bitcoin are realizing net capital gains in excess of $1 million a year?

Probably not a lot. And if you had such kind of coins it would be better to spread out across multiple years. Or if it's really such huge amounts of money you could also make an offshore shell company in a tax haven. When getting few millions we can easily afford a fax consultant.

The title is misleading because he only wants to double it on capital gains in excess of $1 million a year. So, he doesn't want to double our taxes as it was stated. Very few people in this forum will have those gains. What happens is that all this rhetoric against the rich always ends up the same. First a tax like this is announced, and when it doesn't work (because the rich go elsewhere, or don't sell and take loans using the asset as collateral, etc.) in the end they end up raising taxes on everyone.

Of course not. Trump (or rather McConnell et al) cut taxes mainly for the rich but conveniently forgot to figure out how to plug the resulting massive hole in the budget. Probably because when that bill comes due it won't be them responsible for it.

It's truly amazing how presumably anti-establishment anti-bank anti-fiat anti-wall-street community is crying about a tax on the fiat-rich $1m+ annual income people... a tax that basically just brings cap gains more in line with regular income that every schmuck pays taxes on.

But on the bright side - if the current price dip is caused by this "news" then thank you Mr. Biden for cheap(er) bitcoins.

you wanted him, now enjoy.

     I happened to see this one the news also. I was shocked specially when I heard that the one behind this idea is joe biden himself. Who would've thought that he would be doing such a crazy thing specially at a time of pandemic. He is the last peeson I would've thought of that would ever have this kind of idea. A lot may really choose to leave us if this comes to pass.

Seriously?

https://taxfoundation.org/joe-biden-tax-plan-2020/

Trump supporters warned people, screamed "Biden is going to raise taxes!" and the other side either didn't care or didn't accept the reality. This was in his election campaign. He literally said that he is going to raise taxes and he did. (and he probably will keep doing it)

The tile is shocking, yet the article says different  :-\

No need to concern myself

 Maybe you're thinking of selling too soon then?  ;)

I don't know, but for now, I will be hodling as long as pandemic exists

One million dollars in BTC is only like 20 BTC. You might be surprised by how many users on this forum will be cashing out more than that and be effected by this. Honestly, it’s enough to where moving to the Cayman Islands for a while isn’t the worst idea.

I don’t want to be one of those, “if he’s elected then I’m leaving” whiners, but how much money would it take to get you to leave your American citizenship behind? When the number you’d save in taxes gets up above 7 figures, things start to get interesting.



Hell no I didn’t... If I come off as a PC lib to you then I’ve done a horrible job at portraying myself and my beliefs. I’m more of a natural selection supporter, which is far on the other end of the spectrum from the government provides for all camp.

Are you hoping people don't click the link and realize it doesn't have much to do with the title of this thread?  Easier to just believe the yelling headline.

Well to be clear, these jobs gains have nothing to do with Biden or his policies. These job gains are due to Trump's policies that are still affecting the economy. Biden will no doubt take credit for these job gains, and will blame Trump when his policies start to affect the job market.



Bien is not just trying to tax gains on bitcoin, but gains on all long term investments. Interestingly, he is not calling for an increase in taxes on kickbacks to corrupt politicians. 

Thank you for clarity the fact about the misinformation statement about the President increasing tax for every individual in the State because I was surprised when I saw the topic and my understanding is that the US is more into taxing the wealthy people than the common man.

This is perhaps the major reason why we have seen bitcoin price fall from 60k range to the 49 - 50 range again, because big cooperations who initially had a huge store of bitcoin now have to quickly dump it for fear of the new tax rule that President Biden is proposing.

I only but wonder how the supporter's of J. biden will be feeling now?

 That's what I meant by rhetoric.  They're obviously trying to fool someone... I'm not sure who could possibly fall for that though.  They seem to get a pass with MSM still.

Capital gains are already taxable.  I don't think he's proposing anything be taxed that wasn't already taxed. And the capital gains tax increase proposal is only for those that make over $1m a year.  (With the ability to offset your profit with losses from previous years.)  Clearly, not the picture OP is trying to paint with thread title.



Kickbacks are illegal.  Since they're illegal, they aren't taxable.  Since they aren't taxable, there is no tax rate.  Since there's no tax rate, I'm surprised you find it interesting that the President hasn't called for a tax rate increase.  

Just because you don’t make enough money for this to be applicable to you doesn’t mean that I’m trying to paint some false narrative. It only means you don’t make enough money for this to apply to you. Don’t make the mistake of thinking everyone is in your situation or needs to cater to you. We aren’t and we don’t. Read the link for details, the subject line can’t fit every possible disclaimer.

You clearly want everyone to believe it applies to them since you titled the thread with clickbait: "JOE BIDEN wants to DOUBLE your TAXES on BITCOIN gains!"

The reality is it would effect 0.1% of Americans.

The Dems don't want to grow the economy. They want to make it hostile to everyone save for the billionaires and multinational corporations they serve.

The Dems are communists. The only thing they want is a bigger government. Bigger government means smaller corporations. By corporations I don't mean the deep state devices like Google, Apple, Tesla, Microsoft etc. I mean the mid-small size businesses. Right now almost none of them are in business.

You guys need to lay off the right wing rage bait.

They're making it hostile to everyone except billionaires by taxing billionaires?


Almost none of the businesses are in business?

Either you two need to share what you're smoking or maybe try to proof-read what you're posting.

You are clearly painting a false narrative here. Let's rewrite the thread title with the important part capitalized:

"Joe Biden wants to double YOUR taxes on bitcoin gains!"

No, I can assure you he doesn't. Ergo your narrative is false.


What a smart, mature explanation, highly indicative of personal responsibility. No wonder you're a forum treasurer.

Do you think Bitcoin is only used by millionaires?

Usually tax increase proposals like this get shot down by Republicans before they get signed to law.

They were always against tax increases anyway.

I don't know much about the historical facts like this one but if that's the case then it is a damn miracle that the democrats can still win the presidency race. It feels so weird to think that the half of the country are voting for a party that wants to tax the citizens more and still can get millions of votes. Millions of people electing a president that wants to steal from them, crazy.

That's because they think they are going to tax "the rich" only. In reality, those are populist measures that are not carried out, and if they are carried out, they do not work most of the time, so politicians end up raising taxes on those who voted to raise them on the rich. It should be noted that this does not have to be done with direct taxes such as income tax, it can be done with indirect taxes, with massive currency printing and by raising taxes on companies that end up passing them on in the products they sell.

Taxing the rich isn't necessarily a good thing. It will slow down the growth of the stocks market and eventually it will slow down the economy and the poor will also get affected. I'd say poor people would get affected the most. The rich are already rich and they don't need to work to live. If you tax them too much they will leave the country and take the jobs with them. Who suffered now? The rich people? No, it is the poor people that suffered the most.

Cheering for the tax increases isn't anything but either being very dumb or hating yourself. These rich people have options. They can leave any time they want. What choice do the pay check slaves have? And how is that losing their job going to improve their situation?

This is really crazy, people are going through a real crisis during the Corona epidemic and they need to alleviate it and not increase the financial burden on it. The epidemic has caused great damage to many major economic companies and they are suffering due to the epidemic and the increase in taxes will add new suffering to their many problems, perhaps paying This decision is a lot of people and even companies looking for a better place outside of America.
I do not know how these politicians search for solutions to their problems by creating new ones. I don't know what the economic advisory team is doing to Biden. They have to stop him from making this move.

I suppose you have realized that I basically agree with you, right? Because the way you respond it seems like you're trying to antagonize me or something.

Yes, of course, but the discourse against the rich is very simplistic. And it is not only that they can leave the country, the day people find out that many of the rich take loans to avoid paying taxes their mind will blow:

Elon Musk, short on cash, keeps borrowing more and more money even as Tesla stock surges  (https://financialpost.com/personal-finance/high-net-worth/elon-musk-short-on-cash-keeps-borrowing-more-and-more-money-even-as-tesla-stock-surges)

It is precisely in societies with lower taxes that there is more social mobility, and in those with high taxes, the rich remain rich for hundreds of years and do not even have to leave the country:

The richest families in Florence in 1427 are still the richest families in Florence (https://qz.com/694340/the-richest-families-in-florence-in-1427-are-still-the-richest-families-in-florence/)

I know that you agree. It is just I can't understand how people can't see through this. They are using their hate on rich people to get their votes and they easily fall for it. Elon and TSLA is beyond words and logic. I don't know why would anybody buy a stock with a P/E ratio over a thousand and Elon's BTC purchases are not making the situation better for TSLA because as far as I know their primary business is making and selling cars, not making a quick buck on crypto.

It is so sad, it means that the dem voters can't even imagine becoming rich. These are the best kind of slaves that would build their own prison and be happy about it.

Of course. Many of those who buy into this discourse do not see themselves becoming rich, they have bought into the victim mentality, and so they have no choice but to wait for someone to come and save them, in this case a socialist/democrat politician.

It's not that I think everything the Democrats do is wrong and everything the Republicans do is wonderful, but I like a system where my future depends more on what I do than on a politician coming to save me.