Bitcoin Forum

Legendary trader Peter Brandt, an old trader, told the community via Twitter that President Joe Biden could have many negative consequences for the cryptocurrency, bitcoin.
Brandt warns that Biden could do a lot of damage to bitcoin.
He published a link to the Wall Street Journal on Biden's proposal to raise capital gains taxes to 39 percent, and as Brent points out, in some states the figure could even rise to 55 percent.
At present, the capital gains tax is a maximum of 20 percent, while the highest rate for wages or business profits is 37 percent.
If Biden's proposal is approved, high-income families will see the end of their investment planning, and business owners will transfer less wealth to their children.
“If Mr. Biden and the Democrats are successful, the resulting changes would upend investment planning for high-income households and make it more difficult for business owners to pass assets to their children.”
As previously reported by U.Today on April 22, the news of Biden's capital gains tax led to a drop in the price of Bitcoin from $ 55,000 to about $ 48,000.
Cryptocurrencies, such as Ethereum, Ripple, etc., followed this pattern.

https://i.imgur.com/zEwZi2A.png

Brandt says bitcoin is still bullish.
Peter Brandt also wrote on Twitter that despite this news, he will still see the bullish(and libertarian) bitcoin, and this tweet does not show the bearish market in bitcoin.
Bitcoin remains one of Peter Brandt 's greatest assets.

https://i.imgur.com/flThGxu.png

Source: https://u.today/peter-brandt-believes-bitcoin-may-suffer-a-lot-from-biden-presidency-heres-why

The market does not must repeat its history but if history will be repeated, Bitcoin will have to go through months of corrections. Like in 2017, the conflict of consensus for Segwit made the market falls into a very chaotic period. You all know, after all conflicts, months after the Segwit activation and almost 40% of correction, Bitcoin rose four-fold and touched its 2017 all time high.

• The bull run after the halving in May 2020: has risen too fast and much faster than the 2016 - 2017 bull run.
• What Bitcoin has reached so far in this bull run is out of my expectation and many of others too.
• If history repeats itself 100%, in April 2021, Bitcoin should be somewhere around the 2017 ATH ($20,000) not at $64,000 or $48,000.
• Two main factors that cause the rapid growth of Bitcoin: damaged value of fiats because of the pandemic and QEs; and the massive noisy participations of institutes

Based on some models and history, I think Bitcoin is in the middle of its 2020 - 2021 parabolic curve. When correction finishes (might be next 2 or 3 months), the second part of this curve will be touched.

Technically, price will be stucked or bounced around the upper, lower and middle line of a price channel. Assumes Bitcoin is in its middle of the curve, it is normal for the pull back around this middle area.

This apply not only for bitcoin but also stocks, gold, silver and other materials, bonds. Everything. The question is. What is better? 39% of profit or guarantee loss holding your money and letting it to be devalued?

And now when we agreed that it affect all assets. Bitcoin is the only one out of them that you can simply withdraw to wallet and said "I forgot password". Or move it to new address and say "It was wrong address, I don't know who is in charge of it now"

And now knowing that bonds market = 120T, stock market = 70T (taxed 39-50%) and bitcoin = 1T (taxed 0% because you can say you lost it) tell me... Is this news bearish or bullish for bitcoin?

Michael Saylor - owner of $4,5b worth BTC:
"At the end of the day, if you push me to far, i lost it, its gone, i'm sorry ... TAX THAT"

https://twitter.com/btc_archive/status/1385324038034182154?s=21

First, the authorities are going to ask about the addresses of your lost coins, and they will start monitoring them for a chance that they wake up.

Second, you can't openly spend those coins, since you're commiting tax evasion, you'd had to launder those money, and good luck laundering them when you're being scrutinized for claiming that you lost your assets. It's just like committing insurance fraud - sounds easy in theory and very risky on practice.

If you think about it, the damage will only be short term and these super rich with large capital gains on their bitcoin will be forced into action. This sort of news is released early to 1) get a feel for the administration of whether it is a socially acceptable policy (the majority of people do not care if the super rich with lots of assets are forced to pay more) and 2) as a sort of advanced warning to the financial industry that it is likely going to happen. As we already know, they have two options facing them right now: convert their bitcoin back into USD temporarily and swallow the current tax rate of 20%, then buy it back almost instantly. If they have made a substantial profit and want to avoid paying more in future, they will be doing this right now. Alternatively they can gamble that the law does not change (unlikely) and risk paying the much higher rate in future. That being said, for the true super rich that are sitting on a huge tax liability, they probably have enough money that they will never need to sell and they simply have it as another place to store their endless cash. They can probably wait it out until another Republican government gets in power and drops it again.

I believe that whatever the damage that this new tax proposal from Joe Biden administration will cause to bitcoin will be short lived. This new taxing proposal shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone because Biden's plan to tax the rich was already made public and known even during his campaign. Joe Biden has a difficult and significant task to manage the countries economy, especially at a time like this (Pandemic), some difficult decisions will have to be made to keep the country going. As far as the new tax proposal doesn't take more out from the poor and middle income earners, I believe the rich are rich enough to adjust to the proposed change. It is all panic selling and liquidation at the moment, afterwards, any major crypto positive news will sky rocket the price back of bitcoin up to an even higher ATH.

I'm sure the damage wouldn't be that bad. The scenario last bi run is different now. Many institutions are joining the bitcoin herd. But this unexpected announcement by Biden surely get scared some of the investors that's why the market for Bitcoin is on sideways. I'm sure this is temporary and bitcoin will bounce back again as it on the trend of bullish sentiment.

I'm still bullish of that bitcoin will be able to reach 100k this year and more.

It's going to matter to so few people that it really does not matter.

1st it's US only
2nd it's only for people who have more then $1million profit
3rd it's only for LT gains

Carve out the few people that the proposed rules will actually matter to and it's a really small number of the BTC holders.
as @Tytanowy Janusz said this covers a lot of things besides BTC. But BTC is the only thing that fell. So no, it's not the taxing.

-Dave

After having been exposed to how Bitcoin works, Peter Brandt must have already known that Bitcoin grows no matter what the US government do. Biden may or may not increase the capital gains tax. That does not dictate on how Bitcoin would appreciate over time. It has been proven time and again that Bitcoin is gaining one step at a time despite being called all kinds of names, labelled as a criminal's money, a tool for money laundering, a currency for illegal transactions on the deep web, etc.

Biden's new tax policies don't bother me at all.

What was Peter Brandt’s political affiliation during the election last year? I am not certain but he appears to be a progressive democrat hehehe. There was a thread on election betting in the gambling subforum. There were people there who speculated that Biden will be better for the cryptospace than Trump. I do not know if they have a similar opinion today, however. They might not anymore hehehehe.

The Biden administration is just months in office and yet there is that consensus forming that generally it is not that good for cryptocurrency especially Bitcoin. Under the rule of the Democrats, we can expect more regulations and of course tax is going to be the central part of those regulations. After 4 years in office, we might conclude that the Trump era can be better than what Biden has provided. But this can never be surprising at all.

This sounds like something that affects far more than just bitcoin. In fact bitcoin may be the only thing that is either not affected or affected very little because people could simply hide the fact that they own any bitcoin or they can hide how much bitcoin they own but they can never hide their other assets for example their investment in centralized things that are already leaving a huge paper trail that IRS can easily gather and prosecute them for tax evasion while they can not prove how much bitcoin someone owns specially if OTC trades become more popular after this.

That is nonsense, bitcoin price went down for a couple of reasons and none of them had anything to do with this news.

This is another nonsense since all shitcoins including these ones get dumped each time bitcoin rises or falls. They never follow any world news.

Of course, the 'get rich quick people' don't care about taxes, that's an after thought they have to deal with, only old farts think about tax-planning.

Biden will do a lot of damage to BITCOIN, because these crashes will do a lot of damage to institutions. If BTC reverts to $10k like summer 2020, then $1T USD will have been wiped out, wiping out large institutions and wiping out their investors. There will be a huge demand on Biden to 'punish' the Greedy BTC gamblers.

Two weeks to date, with the -25% loss, aka $350B we haven't even begun to see the suicide reports, and carnage from margin-calls.

Bouncing back? Well that's the question, will the FED bail out Bitcoin? I think its possible, after all the FED-FIAT is free, $1T to save 'wall-street' is chump-change.


The summer  of 2020 said of BTC "Bitcoin is the New Cash", put your cash into BTC, and make more than 0.01% like the bank, or CD, or UST; That's the other thing too, in recent months UST is up, so lots of money moved out of BITCOIN, and back to UST

The entire thing is insane, to allow a speculative virtual asset with no backing, to become a 4th leg of the reserve-currency nation.

Simply put too much of the nations liquid-assets are tied up into a CHINESE (miners&hw) owned virtual-fraud, the COVID created the situation of easy cash that flooded the market, and obviously $1T flowed into BTC, but then it evaporated by 25%, who sold out at the top? What did they know? Like Archegos, its usually Goldman-Sacks and the big banks that control the FED, that save themselves first.

It's not a matter of affiliation because I think that with the current landscape of crypto in USA, I think that Biden's regime is going to have a big impact to crypto as a whole. I wouldn't worry too much about it since I know that there the problem there won't persist that long.

Meh. However smart this guy may be, he's a hardcore Trump fan. He's part of a select crowd that desperately wants Biden to hate Bitcoin so his previously established viewpoint can be validated.

https://i.imgur.com/iJW1wmF.png

Meanwhile Biden hasn't actually said peep about Bitcoin, ever, and hey that's about as good as its gonna get as far as U.S. Presidents are concerned. Contrary to what Trump specifically said about Bitcoin, does anybody remember that?

https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%3A%2F%2Fd1e00ek4ebabms.cloudfront.net%2Fproduction%2F1df10a2a-345b-401a-b0e6-1083b76c444f.png?fit=scale-down&source=next&width=609

To the tin-foil hat-wearing conspiracists among up: Why did Trump cave to the Reptilians demand that he publicly denounce Bitcoin, but Biden hasn't? Is Biden some kind of bad-ass or is was Trump a wuss?

The senior old demented Biden actually hasn't said anything about anything, he has spokes-people who do his talking for him,

Trump was a twitter maniac

I don't think Biden has ever once in his entire political career said anything off the cuff.

Trump is/was serious there BTC isn't money

"Only gold is money, all else is credit" JP-Morgan.

...

Why do BITCOIN fanatics hate people for telling the truth??

BITCOIN is NOT money, get over it.

Why is BITCOIN valued in US-DOLLARS? The very currency that Satoshi's minions claim to hate?

AFAIK,capital gains tax is paid only if you sell the asset you are possessing.
If you HODL your Bitcoins,you don't pay capital gains tax.Imposing higher capital gains tax means that more investors will be motivated to HODL their Bitcoins,instead of selling them.This is actually good for the market.
This statement of Brandt is exaggerated.He spreads FUD,even though he says that he's a Bitcoin libertarian.
We knew that Biden/the democrats are going to raise the taxes.Why everyone is so surprised by that?

Oh great, you're one of those people? For some reason I thought you were Australian.

So you honestly believe Trump fired this Tweet out "off the cuff"?

https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%3A%2F%2Fd1e00ek4ebabms.cloudfront.net%2Fproduction%2F1df10a2a-345b-401a-b0e6-1083b76c444f.png?fit=scale-down&source=next&width=609


The same reason any type of fanatic hates people for telling the truth: truth often goes against their beliefs and principles.


Now you're just straw-manning us here. But if you must know Bitcoin is valued in US dollars because that is the de facto world standard for fiat currency. The USD is worst currency ever tried, sans all the others.

So far, we have not heard of an increase in the size of tax deductions from Biden himself. The costs of fighting the coronavirus pandemic are growing, the money supply is increasing very quickly, and inflation will also rise. In these conditions, Biden will be forced to raise taxes, otherwise even the US economy will not be able to bear such large expenses.
In addition, probably this issue will not be decided by Biden himself, but by the US Congress. Together they will come to some optimal tax figures.

Peter Brandt is still bullish long term and Biden is just an old puppet that is not making any decisions on his own related with anything including Bitcoin and Cryptocurrencies and most other politicians including Trump would do something similar.
They all have same advisors telling them they can fix the problem with printing more and more money and introducing more regulations, restrictions and taxes.
This recent Biden tax increase had temporary bad effect on Bitcoin market and it also affected stock market and everything else, but we are probably going to bounce back stronger than ever.
What I am mostly concerned with Biden administration is their obsession with climate change and global warming propaganda that could affect Bitcoin mining in future.

Seriously, 55% tax?  I can’t believe this.
If this one will become reality, the future in Bitcoin could be gone already.  That’s too much tax already and the Businesses would collapse quickly because of this.  They might not be able to make their cash flow survive for two years and will decide to file bankruptcy forcibly.

However, I hope if this really made it there they would justify the brackets.  I would tend to agree on the part where it really is better to get the rich taxed more than the lower ones.  However, the taxation must be lesser than 55%a and it might 35% really hurts but still good compared to 55%.

Going back, I just feel bad in a way that, people might stop aiming to have a great company as it takes a lot of sacrifices as they will not be rewarded well with the risks they took.

My opinion is also like that, all changes or regulations that can disturb the peace of Bitcoin will not last long, after that Bitcoin can be victorious again. however, if President Joe Biden manages to increase the capital gains tax, I am afraid that the price of bitcoin can also go up, but it will affect the transaction costs which will be very expensive.

Exactly. His tweet seems to be "rich people talking to rich people". Or as TYT say, when rich people cry.

It's easy to be libertarian when a non libertarian society has allowed you to become uber rich.

Bitcoin should be held anyway, not sold.

No, Trump didn't do something similar. Trump straight up said he hates Bitcoin.

https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%3A%2F%2Fd1e00ek4ebabms.cloudfront.net%2Fproduction%2F1df10a2a-345b-401a-b0e6-1083b76c444f.png?fit=scale-down&source=next&width=609

Meanwhile, Biden hasn't actually said anything on the subject. So it makes no sense for Trump supporters to chastise Biden on his Bitcoin policy when

a) he doesn't have one, and
b) Trump's policy is provably worse.

This is the third time I've posted that tweet. It's like peoples' eyes don't register what it means or something.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HandsomeCoarseAtlanticspadefish-max-1mb.gif

That is just great.
I said WOULD, that means that anyone would do something similar in place of Biden and I was talking about TAXES.
You are taking my post out of contest and you are posting some old Trump tweet from 2019 that is not true anymore as Bitcoin and crypto was regulated during his administration term.
Biden is senile old fool so I don't expect him to say anything about Bitcoin or anything tech related, and there is not much difference with all puppet politicians we see on tv.

C'mon Man...Hairy legs and corn pop stories is all he can really talk about  :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwoN-FvVEsA

Put what Trump has said about bitcoin and the cryptospace aside or what Biden is not saying. Would you speculate that Biden is better or worse for bitcoin?

It only appeared that Trump was against bitcoin, however, his adminstation was not doing what Janet Yellen is planning to do.

Why do people think two seventy something elderly presidents are different from each other just because one elderly who has been in office a couple of years has said something about bitcoin and the other elderly who has been in office for a couple of months hasn't said anything yet?
They may have been competing against each other but they are pretty much the same guy when it comes to a lot of things including bitcoin. They are operating in the same corrupt system after all.

Right, I'm not offended if that's what you want to believe. I kind of hope Biden never says anything about Bitcoin. That would be ideal. My overall point was that the same people who are quick to hate on Biden are the same people that are quick to support Trump. IMO that renders their judgment extremely suspect.



I can't put aside either of those things because that's all you need to know. Biden is de facto better on bitcoin as Trump has denounced bitcoin and Biden hasn't.

Biden can hardly hold a thought pattern for 5 seconds, so you should not be too worried about him. The real threat come from Butthurt Yellen, because she still wants to take revenge on "The Bitcoin guy" who sabotaged her speech a few years ago.

So you can expect a lot of strict laws and regulations from her Office to reduce Crypto currency use. (Higher Capital gains taxes on Crypto transactions is just one of the things that they will do, to reduce it's use.)  >:(

No he is not, and that is the fact because he was part of same US government system for 40 years, in office as vice president from 2009  to 2017 and done nothing for Bitcoin, except maybe ordering FBI and other agents to shut down Silk Road,
and if you want to continue talking about politics and politician puppets and support them, than you should go to Politics & Society board.


You can't really argue and talk with closed minded people who have strong opinion about something, and I agree that all of them are part of same corrupt machine.
My late grandparents also didn't have any stance about Bitcoin, so I guess they would be much better as president and vice president   :P

The market is down a bit based on the Bitcoin tax policy that US President Joe Biden formulated a few days ago.  Many believe that Joe Biden's policy has led to the collapse of the Bitcoin market, while others believe that Joe Biden's policy will enrich Bitcoin.

Well I mean the thread title does have the word "Biden" in it, but this issue is indeed more about bitcoin than politics. Here's the thing: my assessment is based on concrete evidence whereas yours is based on assumptions. When Biden comes out with a FUD tweet about bitcoin then I'll re-assess my assessment.

Any government in the world would have been in favor of shutting down Silk Road. Interpol works with various law enforcement agencies around the world to shut down darket markets, with just as much impartiality as U.S. LE agencies do.

Ironically I'm the one here attempting to call out the effects of political brainwashing. My beef isn't with Republicans, its with people who get afraid of things that aren't actually happening.

That's right, people in politics are changing, but politics remains more or less the same - it doesn't even matter what Biden thinks, but what those who put him in the White House think. Currently, Bitcoin and all other cryptocurrencies bring profit to the US economy whether it is cryptocurrency exchange, mining, funds or thousands of crypto ATMs across the country. This is far from the threat that some are emphasizing at the moment, talking about some radical moves that could be made by the American administration.

Biden has much bigger problems than taking action against or in favor of what some of their politicians see as just a small baby in terms of some kind of threat to the US dollar.

What exactly is your evidence? Trumps tweet maybe?  C'mon man, be serious please.
I also have evidence that Biden increased taxes like crazy, and I have evidence that he was vice president from 2009 to 2017 right in the time when Bitcoin was created, when most of the bitcoin was confiscated from people by US government.
He is also strong advocate of climate change and global warming propaganda so I would not be surprised if he bans mining or add new tax for bitcoin mining in United States very soon.
Once again, whoever the president puppet is in charge he will always be against Bitcoin and pro infinite fiat money printing, so I see no reason for you to choose less of two evils and to think that one of them is good for Bitcoin.

Case would be closed like this

President works for government which never like or support Bitcoin. Whoever the President is, Trump, Biden, Obama, anyone else the general policy for Bitcoin and crypto currency won't be opened and friendly. They might like (or might not) Bitcoin or cryptocurrency but when they are Presidents, they won't be able to do much and show their personal supports via and Acts or Regulations for Bitcoin.

Why do so many people feel that US is the only country involved in the manipulation of cryptocurrencies like BTC etc? There are many other countries involved too people which is why the President of the USA(Whoever it is) is not solely responsible for BTC volatility.

A correction was always expected after the recent bull-run and the tax gain proposal was the driving factor for it plain and simple.

Exactly.


Its up to you whether or not you want to take Trump's word seriously. Fact is he said it. Whereas Biden has been mum about bitcoin. Therefore a conclusion can be drawn based on these two facts alone, regardless of whether or not you desire to make it.


He didn't "increase taxes like crazy." Nobody who makes under $400k a year will pay more in taxes, which is the vast majority of Americans. Besides, he hasn't actually done anything yet! This is what I'm talking about, you're getting amped up over a non-event. You should ask yourself why.

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/domestic-taxes/550045-lawmakers-brace-for-bitter-fight-over-biden-tax-plan

If you want to hate on the government equally then that's fine with me, but I don't understand what the point of pretending Trump is better on the issue of bitcoin than Biden is when the available evidence suggests otherwise. Why people enjoy being puppeteered as political attack vectors is beyond me.


If you look back at what I said, I never claimed Biden is "good" for bitcoin. I just said he wasn't as bad as Trump, and it makes no sense to attack Biden when he hasn't said peep on the issue.

Why would a rise in capital gains tax affect Bitcoin? Isn't there a possibility to avoid taxes on cryptocurrencies in the US?
Also, it's not like 99% of Bitcoin hodlers are in the US, there are also China, Nigeria, Turkey, etc., and the whales. And even if there's a drop in price due to these tax implications, in time it will only simulate other investors around the world to acquire more BTC.

Brilliant.... I wonder since when have tweets become evidence.
In that tweet Trump never said that he hates Bitcoin (that is your twist)  just that he is not a fan of Bitcoin, and actually Biden also has one tweet claiming that he does not own any Bitcoin, so someone could twist that also.
Imagine being in office as vice president from 2009 to 2017 and not a single word about Bitcoin... so dumb and stupid :D

Yes, because Biden can only read script and talk about Dark Winter, climate change, covid and his hairy legs.

I don't know why you use word HATE so much, and I never said Trump is better in any way, actually both of them are bad in their own ways.
You are obviously one of those fanatic Biden supporters and I see no point in debating with you about this topic anymore because you are twisting the facts to suit your need.

I'm now having that thought that the recent correction wasn't caused by this news about Biden's tax raise but due to the sell off made by Tesla.

News and implications about taxation and capital gains won't take effect if it's not yet official. The most likely reason why there's a sudden correction was due to the sell off and let's say there's also a pressure from that news but I'm thinking that it's more of a whales sell off.

Lets attached some links about this news: https://www.coindesk.com/tesla-sold-bitcoin-in-q1-for-proceeds-of-272m

This is one of the cons when big players or holders in this market tend to decide on selling off their stashes.Even though its just been a part of their total holding but still can make out some significant
impact in the market.Well, its their money and just secure their profits which is a common action for someone to take if i were an investor.

Expect that there would be similar instances if the case that bitcoin hits up 100k price point or level.

He's actively making moves against investment firms which is inevitably hurting the bitcoin industry as well. He may have overlooked the welfare of small-time investors like us which could definitely kill off the hope of bringing investment to the common people. Then again, this is the sad reality. Bitcoin has huge traction here in the US. Truth be told, aside from Nigeria, you would see bitcoin being operated in America itself. That's why regulations like this, affects bitcoin in a very impactful way. Although of course, the possibility of the correction coinciding with these news and issues is there.

The recent Bitcoin revenue tax policy proposed by Joe Biden has been able to bring about a major change in the Bitcoin market.  As a result of his policy, the Bitcoin market had to go down from $ 60,000 to $45 45,000.  Undoubtedly like a thunder signal in a cryptocurrency market.

Damn 39 to 55% tax rate? that's insanely huge! If it's really implemented, no wonder if many people lose their interest in investing or even sold their investment. And of course for sure it will affect bitcoin negatively. For what reason though he increased that much? Wouldn't it just cause uproar? He should realize that it will only bring destruction whether it's short term or even long term. I hope it won't ever happen since i don't want to see bitcoin getting ruined twice.

Yeah, he will do it if he wants to loose in the next election? There is huge amount of money thats spent on the election rallies and advertising which basically comes from the billionaires and millionaires who are willing to expand their business territory to the nationwide. This is always possible with the political support. So this is a kind of transaction which says 50-50! We invest in you and in return you give us what we want.

Now if he imposes something off the chart and damaging to the business of these people then surely he gonna get pay for the same. Bitcoin is way ahead of everything right now, from street person to richest person knows it and wanna have it. The infra is growing day by day and it's almost impossible it take it down from the intranet now. Biden may not get approval for this from the public point of view.

Elon said that it's all about the show that there's liquidation in bitcoin which is a good thing in his opinion.

But as always, these institutions and big investors won't take the profits for granted. They'll always there to secure themselves and won't miss any opportunity that they should.

Maybe after they've sold, they've also bought it back just as the market has recovered already.

This tax increase is due to the Bitcoin price which has become increasingly popular in recent months. Even people are starting to get into crypto because crypto looks more promising.

Joe Biden's plan to raise the profit tax on investment in America has a negative effect on the price of bitcoin and of course the price of bitcoin has dropped again.

But according to some traders the effects of this tax increase will only last temporarily. The price of bitcoin will recover because of the very strong community support and some major adoptions that have been made.