Bitcoin Forum

Original 2009 had lofty promises

Cheap, private, be you own bank, F*ck U to the FED-BIS-IMF....

Now 2021 IRS-Coinbase rules Bitcoin-org

Most people have sold out any promise of freedom in exchange for US-GOV control 100% of btc

Nobody talks about the fact that all mining/consensus is done in China

Now they have dropped the myth of privacy, and promise you pseudo-privacy, sort of like virtual-pregnancy

Damn sure, bitcoin was not created to make you rich, but today 99% that's the only reason they're here, get rich quick.

Post 2014 BTC has attracted the worst scammers, criminals, robbers, con-artists on earth, why not they can steal legally, as nobody who loses their money can go to the police

...

Past two weeks BTC has entered a free-fall, down -25%(-47k), now at -20% ( $53k); all the while alt-privacy coins have continued to sky-rocket,

A month ago $1k in DOGE would be $50k today, $1k in BTC would be $800 today; If they're only here for money, how long do you think the 99% will stay??

...

Lastly BIS-IMF created BTC whitepaper 1997, BTC is SHA256, and Secp256k1 two NSA algo's; BTC is NSA 100%

Who exactly tracks us and how can you identify a person is that address from the other almost similar yet different address? Are you bitter because you sold your bitcoin when it was dipping and now the prices has gone up again and you don't have a bitcoin because you sold at lower prices so you spread FUD so you are not alone in that sad place?

he is saying it's NSA. if it's NSA then they just endanger the USD dominance and the fiat system where the governments rely on. NSA would just see it not worth pursuing project if that is the case.

not all people are in coinbase.  i don't think 50% of the crypto trader are in coinbase. but you're right that BTC isn't meant to make people rich. not everyone can trade and if you panic sell you'd really mess up your investment.

Another post comparing the growth of Doge to BTC in the past few months.
Yes they are giving up their anonymity by doing KYC but we have our own choice if we want to or not.
There are ways that we could use to keep it untraceable and keep our wallet or address anonymous.
It depends on the wallet that you would use nobody could gain 100% control to the whole BTC .

Lol, this dude again on the quest to right all the wrong with BTC, couldn't achieve your aim in 'Who Killed Bitcoin?? Greed? Government? Fraud? Idiocy?' (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5333051.msg56862916#msg56862916) since majority of members don't seem to agree with your view,
Even now i doubt many share in your view, being part of btc is a choice everyone who joined has made, it wasn't impose or force on anyone so how is it a tool to enslave anyone? i can decided to walk away from crypto at any given time i chose because it is free entry and exit,

You keep rambling about freedom freedom yet am not able to figure out what level of freedom you want,  Okey, Assuming government decided to give everyone freedom of money, be your own bank as well as be your own Security, protect yourself from all internal and external threat, hope you would not mined living like that  :(, you have your freedom already but if you are looking for something extra, it will cost you, whatever has advantage definately has a disadvantage.

P.S
Enjoy your privacy coins and leave btc the hell alone, no need indirectly shilling about privacy coin here.

Who cares if they leave? What a biased comparison. Why not starts from 9 years ago? $1 Bitcoin will be worth more than $40k this day. Do you think those meme coins will survive the next bear market? This situation is exactly like the previous ICO boom. When they start to fall, it will be an amazing sight to see.

How are we getting tracked by the government? I understand that everybody can follow bitcoins around if he has the wallet Adress. But how are the wallets being matched to real person and their full names? The government could ask for such kind of information but do we fully need to comply? For example the government doesn't know how much money is in our bank account. With warrant they could find out but not without it. Especially if we have the money in Switzerland or some other of shore country.

I think the op has misunderstood some of the concepts of bitcoin. It is not a privacy coin. Instead every transaction is open to public through blockchain and anyone can find the transaction done with bitcoin. So bitcoin has never promised privacy at the first place. If you want privacy, start using Monero.

Also if you have a problem with IRS rule, go speak to them instead of criticizing bitcoin. No country would allow their people to use a currency which is not controlled by them. So every government will try to gain as much as information possible on their citizen's crypto holding. US is no exception!

Who will track you then? maybe you are reading or watching to much sci-fi movies that's why you think that way, and if you do nothing for your bought coin or get panic when see some dumps well you cannot really earn from it but if you transact then use it for other types of investment like investing,trading and etc for sure you will earn some fortunes here. But be careful also dealing on anything since there are so many scams, so don't fall and became a victim since you will surely hate bitcoin for that situations.

Indeed. I've also thought that this hype on DOGE was somehow like an ICO before more like FUD and FOMO, have no strong support and created only by hype, there's a possibility that it wouldn't survive when the bear market comes. BTC however, had made to pass it all, several bear cycles had been through yet it remains the number one. It is not that I am biased on Bitcoin but this is what I have observed over the past years I have been in this industry. Besides, those two can't be compared and we already knew that.

Even without Bitcoin we are being tracked , Satellites above us are already tracking us for years so why made it complicated for Bitcoin?

but thanks for the heads up at least you are considering how valuable Bitcoin is.

If you think that Bitcoin is a trap to enslave you and track everything then you have the power to not use them. It is your choice and i am not doing anything illegal with my investment and even if a government wants to track my transaction i do not care but i need the privacy from the general public as i do not want to expose how much money i hold to anyone but naturally you cannot hide anything from the government.

We are living in a world where everything is monitored and no one will claim that bitcoin is created to make you rich but to be more transparent. Basically anyone who reaches a market during the initial stages will make a huge profit and you cannot say that about a user who invests in the market a decade later as the profits will be minimal like the other markets.

Is this another baseless and fancy theory? Like I’ve been a fan of conspiracy theories but never the baseless ones. Like you can’t just throw theory or accusation without and basis.

We’ve been tracked since from the start and honestly, we were tracked for free. Our governments have our identities engraved on their system. We were not able to avoid that. Before you hit 18, your identities were saved already. So what’s the point of being scared about it?

And how would they track us anyway? Did you use your personal identity when trying to access the cryptocurrency community? I guess no.
But of course, a bitcoin transaction is in the public ledger, meaning to say, everyone can trace and track but not your identity.

They try to make bitcoin look as if it is the evil that takes criminal minded souls into crime, it isn't for correction because even fiat have been stolen, used for crimes and to pay for evil businesses



Bitcoin isn't on a free fall. You should expect some corrections after some bull runs. The market is still in bull and investors are getting to hodl more btc which is the best for this time. Bitcoin has taken another push to $53+++ and the chart in CMC is looking up for green.

As much as you intend to prove a point that bitcoin was created to enslave us, you have only successfully told us how you don't understand what bitcoin is and how it really works.
Why would you say bitcoin was created to enslave me when it was actually created to give me freedom from the banks and it had actually been doing that well. I now control my own transactions with bitcoin. I do not pay exorbitant fees and I do not wait days to make international transactions. 
Bitcoin gave me the power to remain anonymous while making transactions and that's something not possible with the banks.
I can go on and on listing the numerous advantages bitcoin has over fiat currencies and the banks.

bitcoin does not ask for your name/location/social security
exchanges are not bitcoin.. they are fiat

its the FIAT that being tracked
yes fiat businesses that also handle bitcoin still have to obide by the fiat laws because they handle fiat.
handling 50% bitcoin does not mean they can avoid fiat rules

so recognise that fiat businesses will always follow fiat rules and actually recognise this fact..

then you can separetly recognise that there are bitcoin-bitcoin only stuff that doesnt need to follow fiat rules..

Just another example of a person that has strong opinions and that has no idea of what they are talking about, you do not like coinbase and the fiat world monitoring what you are doing? Then do not use it, it is that simple, if you want to buy bitcoin with fiat and you want to retain your privacy then you need to do it peer to peer just as it was the intention of satoshi, you have to pay a premium for the privacy you get but that is true for everything as well, you could also buy a miner and mine your own coins and help the network along the way, there are many ways to avoid what you are mentioning you are just being lazy about it.

Our movements are always monitored without our own knowledge, due to the fact that the state has access to them. when compared to the current growth of Bitcoin, the parties remain anonymous even though they are worried all the time that their identity will be exposed. Then with the integrity of China as a country that has technological facilities, if you are there, surveillance will be very easily detected. from the point of view of your economy, bank finance and Bitcoin ownership.
so the government always has full control over your ownership.

Honestly why do you make such claims when you know nothing how the system works?? Bitcoins is trackable! Yes! But not 🚫 that easily. It's transparent. Freedom does not come with the necessity to hide your steps, rather it's an ability to do things without bounds. I do think you have to understand that FBI is a bigger threat to you. Your incognito is being tracked by Google and your Facebook, Instagram and WhatsApp are all selling your data for some money from advertising companies. The banks collect all your data , connect it to your KYC and then send to the Government timely. Well with bitcoins yes you can hide everything but it's not needed of you are rather not taking a bad step. It gives you freedom from the sudden befall of the Governmental institutions that might indeed cause you to fall out in a matter of seconds.

This again? Seriously, I'm surprised by how long people can hold on to some stupid conspiracy theories.

How can anyone have 100% control over a P2P network? Hello?

Everybody talks about it. So what? China has the greatest manufacturing output, and a population of around 1.5 billion, maybe they control everything now? They have cheap electric power and labor, ergo - they mine like crazy, why wouldn't they?

There was never a myth about privacy, people created it by their lack of understanding. Do you see any promises of anonymity in the Bitcoin whitepaper? It clearly states that only by keeping your public key anonymous and avoiding multi-input transactions you can count on privacy. Nothing more.

The majority will stay, because, hopefully, they realize how stupid it is to make predictions regarding the future of Bitcoin as well as alts by the data gathered over a month.

I don't even know what to tell you here mate, maybe you should check your sources if there are any? The last time I checked Bitcoin whitepaper was released in 2008.

SHA256 is a very popular algorithm in cybersecurity, make a 7-zip archive and it will be encrypted by sha-256 hash algo. Maybe the NSA planned it so that they could get the contents of people's archives too?

Just drop it and move on.

OP will be an idiot if OP were to not use bitcoin, I mean does our address pinpoint us exactly where we are in the world at a 100% accuracy. I don't get how you are scared of getting tracked when you have all your personal information on the hands of the government, if you don't want to get tracked, try not using electronics and mobile devices and live on the mountains.

No, it's not. I, myself enjoying my profits today from investing in bitcoin. It wont make us slave, otherwise it makes us to be free from using it without worrying that it may be handled by the third party. We control our own money.

I dont know where did you get the idea of tracking us down but it is not the way you think it is.

It doesn't matter why bitcoin was created, the only thing that matters is how you use it for your own benefit. You are the one who gets to decide what will bitcoin do to you like for example, if you are too reckless with your decision making then bitcoin would never be an instrument for you to get rich as it sucks out all the money you are investing. On the other hand, in terms of being anonymous, bitcoin has been proven to be a safe currency and also we should already know how well secured it is just by seeing that it is used on illegal transactions in the black market so I guess there's nothing to worry about bitcoin being a tool to enslave us or track us down.

As far as I'm concerned no other crypto coin matters more than bitcoin, you people should accept the fact that any new coins you bring to the table either privacy or other is still an alt, BTC rules and stop talking about enslave, if something that was created to enslave me can make me rich then I would forever be enslaved.

You are at liberty to either use btc or not to use it, even if btc was created to enslave people as you claim (which I heavily disagree on) you can always make the choice to use it or not,

Between aside centralize exchange that requires kyc before doing any btc trade, holding btc itself does not require any personal information,  it doesn't display any information about the holder except the content of the particular wallet holding btc,  so am finding it difficult to share your opinion.

I dont think i can  support this ascertion  due to the fact that wven the world richest man has even made it increase in price after he bought over 1.5billlion of it and someone would say it is an Enslavery coin i dont dupport it one bit

Do not worry about these kinds of topics guys, they are just fudders who have missed out on crypto and that's all, or maybe they are trolls and have fun getting all the attention. I mean there are people on this planet who are so alone, so lonely that even getting hate, even getting cursed at, even saying the most awful and horrible things to get a bit of attention seems like an option for them, I have seen much more sick stuff compared to this and Bitcoin being an enslavement is just an opinion so it is fine.

This is why I do not look at all the fudders, I just care about what we can do and not topics like these. You can do your own research, look at what bitcoin is, what it has done in the last 10 years, how much money people made, how many people paid of school debt, mortgages and many other stuff, and then come back and read this, you will see it is just funny.

This is a pretty stupid post since most of this is demonstrably false and even the stuff posted in the OP is self-contradicting.

OP: "US-GOV control 100% of btc"
Also OP: "Nobody talks about the fact that all mining/consensus is done in China"

So which is it, 100% controlled by the US government, or controlled by China?  (Also, bitcoin is not controlled be either the US government or China.)

More lols- "BTC has entered a free-fall".  You must not know what "free fall" means.  At the point it's rising, it's not in "free fall."  Also, 25% down isn't even that big of a drop by bitcoin standards. Damn son, some of us here been around for far steeper "free-falls" (to use your incorrect term). And it "free fell" all the way down to $53k? The horror!

In summary, you're a clown.

track?  you do not stop issuing opinions that are totally contrary to the situation.  there is no reason i can be tracked with Bitcoin when i use the Tor network and p2p trading.  

Enslave?  since i became a hodler, i've made 5x profit from my capital, how can Bitcoin enslave me?  you really are out of your mind.

Bitcoin was create to keep all of us bank-free, that's all ^{(be your own bank)}

To be honest in the real world it is really very easy to track someone because the identity was already public but in the bitcoin you cannot trace or track anyone or maybe it would be so hard to track anyone here. Just give the scenario if the person is using coinbase which can generate different wallet address as long as you want then how the people will be able to track those kind of person? Imagine a lot of people is using wallet address and yet it is very hard to be trace.

Lol, OP is noob, he doesn't know properly what decentralization is! Technically one can just use a mixer and that's it, the funds that once belonged to them will remain belonging to them and no one can even trace the funds from where it came and go through. Bitcoin has given the common good citizens of this planet the freedom that we have been longing for since ancient times!

I can get your points as these days lots of interference into the core part of decentralization of bitcoins. Because, bitcoin may not remain as just a bank as intentionally or unintentionally it has slowly changed as an asset. So, some changes from the beginning days is inevitable.

This is really annoying, I accept. Even many crypto-only exchanges/casino also started asking to clear KYC norms. They simply forget why they are still remaining as crypto-only based services.

I guess this is just temporary as over the time, bitcoin may retain all its power by its own way when mining will be feasible on all other countries as well. For this to happen, firstly countries need to understand bitcoin and how beneficial it is to their economy and I do see many countries has started that part.

You can argue that electronic money in general can be used to track the spend of the users and I would agree with you. Just think of initiative such as the digital euro and the digital dollar that could potentially be only held on named accounts and all movements registered.
However it is very clear that bitcoin is not the right tool for that purpose and that someone with the intention to track would have made a completely different chain or technology. Bitcoin is not anonymous and has never made the claim of being so, but that is a different thing. You can always use privacy coins if that is what you are intending to say.

bitcoin does not make people rich, this sentence is only for people who have no knowledge of cryptocurrency trading. for me bitcoin really helps our economy to be better and can even make us rich.
people who do not have knowledge of crypto currency trading will always fail because they are not careful, impatient and have a very high fear.

Many OP's points make sense, but with all the disadvantages and sabotages to bitcoin presented, it's still better than fiat. What another options do we have? None.
Fiat enslave and track you too, especially due to inflation which eats your patrimony. With bitcoin at least it's quite the opposite regards this matter.

Bitcoin isn't 100% perfect. Nothing ever is. Nitpicking self perceived imperfections as justifications for mass condemnation of something doesn't improve circumstances or elevate anyone. Wanting to condemn crypto in its entirety for a slew of pyramid schemes from 2012. Assuming these negatives outweigh the positives, is premature at best and self destructive at worst.

The real question is: would the world be a better place without bitcoin, than it is with it. I think we can all agree that cryptocurrencies empower society. They give people crucial access to options and tools they need to solve problems related to finance and money.

Would anyone care to contend that perceived negatives associated with crypto outweigh the positive benefits. Innocent until proven guilty is a great mandate to deter recent trends where media and anonymous unnamed sources have unfairly been elevated to being judge, jury and executioner.

There are many investigations and penalties directed at banks who laundered money for shady russians, terrorists, drug cartels and rogue states. All indications are banks and paper money being the #1 safe haven for criminals who typically prefer to avoid the paper trail associated with digital or crypto based transactions.

SHA and the elliptic curve cryptography bitcoin is built on were different technologies last I checked.

If your goal is to write a damning piece on crypto could you please do it without automatically triggering the "so easy a caveman could do it" responses most of us have read in response to the hundreds of "bitcoin was created by the NSA/FBI/CIA/government" threads posted here over the last 10'ish years.

Your post is showing that you’re bitter, you must be having some serious issues other than what you’re complaining about here. Maybe you list money or something like that and you just want to pour your frustration.

At first I thought you were going to be talking about the Blockchain because it’s an open space that allows anyone to be tracing your address once they have it, and that way they can know how much goes into it and out (Of course that’s how it’s meant to be), and then I discovered that you’re just confused , because you were not arriving at any point with what you are saying here. Although you are right about a lot of people that wants to get rich quick, I know that there are so many of them.

The problem is not bitcoin, the problem is those people your talking about, so there is no need of saying that it is enable by criminals. I make use of bitcoin, and for sure I don’t even support all those people calling it a digital gold, oil and whatever (when people around me use those words I correct then immediately that bitcoin is simply bitcoin and a cryptocurrency and nothing more than that) those people are the ones who sees it as a means to milk out the whole money they need, they are always telling you that price will get to one million dollars.

But having such people doesn’t mean that there are no good people in their right senses that knows why they are here, just that you don’t want to notice them.

Some people seem to think that everything is centered on the US and their agencies. I'd like to see how a US agency enslaves people in Asia or Africa.

Is some 3 letter agency from the US going to care if someone in far Russia pays with Bitcoin? They can't do anything about it!

I agree that Bitcoin isn't here to make us rich, but it's not some government tool either.

There are also mining that happens in other country, don't mislead people that mining is only happening in China. The fact is that there's a huge share in China but you're saying that all of it happens there.

Bitcoin might not be made to make me rich but what it's showing today is giving some good chance to make a well being in the future. Thus, there were those investors that can be said rich by now because of bitcoin.

People like us are never going to be convinced by a FUD that is so weak, however we are not the problem, there are many newbies coming to the market that could see something like this and get scared and sell their coins and lose a great deal of their capital just because they read someone on the Internet has a strong negative opinion of bitcoin, obviously they should not be so easily influenced but we know that it happens and it could happen on this instance.

Well the main purpose of bitcoin is not to make us rich, since before bitcoin is almost worthless. It's only because the price is so high right now that many people use bitcoin as a tool to be rich instantly. And i guess, we can still keep our anonymity as long as we don't give out our identity, still keeping everything secret and private. No way it will be able to track us, even if it do, it'll way too harder.
But still bitcoin gave a lot of advantages for many people, and most accept the risk and consequences of bitcoin, nothing's wrong with that, everyone can have their own decision.

Even with fiat currency, we are still on track so what matter when using cryptocurrency, cryptocurrency especially bitcoin is better than a fiat currency in some aspect so we cannot stop people from using it, it is better that you are the only one who controls your money without any third party which we can have with bitcoin. Bitcoin is not made for us to become rich but now people tend to become more active in cryptocurrency because of earning money.

I don't know how bitcoin is going to enslave and track us but I am sure that when I use bitcoin, there is no way that someone knows who I am unless I reveal my identity. Just because it is online doesn't mean that Big Brother is seeing our every move with bitcoin, you are just paranoid.

the shift in the function of bitcoin today is inseparable from its profitable nature to make money. but at least in this way, making bitcoin more widely known by the wider community, even the government seems unable to stop it, even though the decentralization inherent in bitcoin is contrary to the current banking system

The blockchain technology is incredibly powerful and while bitcoin itself will not enslave us if the governments beat bitcoin and they impose their fiat currencies in digital form then we will become slaves, after all it is likely that in their currency you are only going to be allowed to have one address and they are going to be in control of the private keys of everyone, meaning they can confiscate or steal your money, know every transaction you make and in the case they think you are against them then they will not let you to spend your money and without cash you will not be able to buy anything.

Well, it's no secret that Bitcoin is easier to track than fiat money. No wonder even the CIA likes Bitcoin :)

Source: https://decrypt.co/66411/cia-bitcoin-surveillance

There are a number of ways to assign the transaction to a person. The most obvious is when you want to convert Bitcoin to fiat, but beyond that there are a few others.

I do not think that they will have private keys of their digital currency, you can still have fiat and store it somewhere they can't get to you, you can also put it in a bank where they can get to you as well of course, but it is all about what you want to do and not what they can do, if you want to avoid getting your money stolen by governments you can do that. Work in cash, show high costs to not pay taxes, and put your cash in a vault which you hide, the problem is solved.

However it is not about hiding from government or not, it is about how governments control the macro economy where they ruin everything, 100$ today worths much less than what it used to 10 years ago, and will worth less in 10 years from now, why? Inflation sounds like a good thing for growing but when that growing helps the rich but destroys the poor, how come it could be ever a good thing?

No one forces you to use Bitcoin. When you do you should be extremely careful to not leave much traces. You can use Bitcoin that way, but if you plan to switch for all your finances to happen through Bitcoin you will have problems. Thing is that transactions you make today will be seen on blockchain 100 years form now. 10 years from now there will be way easier (one click) tools to do chananalysis.

I understand their can be scam attacks in crypto-currency, all that is still same scam process that, attack the low secured, greedy and insensitive victims, and I said this before, scammers would still scam a victim in Fiat and not minding police report or what so ever.

Yes Satoshi never knew many of us -bitcoiners- and he can't possibly want or think it's possible for everyone who owns any amount of bitcoin to become rich, he originally created a financial master piece, which became a good value for investment and trading, and investment and trading traditionally can give profit or loss.

I don't have to worry about that kind of thing happening in my country though, the government agebcies are incompetent and slowpokes so I know that they will not do this kind of thing, there is some merits to living in a hellhole of country after all. And if the unlikely thing like that was to happen, I am sure that we are going to just completely avoid using it since it will be a different system compared to blockchain.

I do not think you understood what I meant, I am not talking about bitcoin I am talking about the digital currencies that governments are going to release and it is too naive in my opinion to believe that governments are not going to have all the private keys of every single address ever created and that they are going to know who it belongs to, this is why we cannot let governments win this battle because if they do we do not know how long is it going to take for another project to challenge their power.

It is terrible if fiat currencies are camouflaged as digital currencies, where it is like following the blockchain trend that is identical to bitcoin. I think the government is not yet ready to launch a digital currency which has the same system as fiat currency, and I think this is just a breakthrough that has no definite purpose

China is releasing a digital Yuan (there's already a pilot program running in the country) and you're right, they are able to monitor the flow of money in real time. They know exactly how much money you have, where you spend it, and most alarmingly, they can assign the money to expire if not spent by a certain date which forces stimulus spending by the population without cost to the government of handing out money and hoping people spend it. Digital currencies are going to be a very bad development, and yet they seem inevitable.

The blockchain technology itself already implies a certain transparency of transactions, and this also applies to bitcoin, no matter what anonymity we are talking about. And as for incentive payments, everything is not so clear and so terrible, because if money is allocated for such purposes, then in theory it should be spent for these purposes, even if at a certain time. Another thing is that your earned funds should remain your funds without a statute of limitations, until you personally want to spend them for your own purposes. Unfortunately, digital currencies open up the possibility of abuse by the state, but let's hope that over time, society will be able to find ways to balance the interests of the individual citizen and the state.

Seriously man? To say that the post is written by a member rank, I can't see how dump these question and the questions that trouble your mind.
Tell me one person that has been using bitcoin that has been successfully been tracked by the US government. You made a mistake, bitcoin isn't a private assets, its a pseudonym assets. ( you can see everything that's happening by a wallet but you wouldn't know the actual person behind it). It has been for years without any form of problems.
Chinese are fully into mining because they see opportunities and a source of income since they can easily afford electricity. You need to make more research about bitcoin.  ;D ;D

How do bitcoin exactly track my every move when I am online? I don't know what is the problem with bitcoin, I mean we are living in a world that revolves around money and payment for services so what is wrong having to slave grinding with bitcoin, if the world isn't what it is, I am pretty sure that it will be a different situation.

Yeah definitely a different situation, I agree but OP's concern is bitcoin is slowly deviating from decentralization which might lead to a state of conditions where you can be  tracked easily (as KYC is being made mandatory everywhere) and only some countries are holding major share on bitcoin mining hash power which may lead to take control of bitcoin consensus system at some point of time somehow.

I believe it is a basic responsibility of every bitcoiner to make sure that we are using only decentralized platforms for exchanges, gambling and for other similar services. And also we must focus on bitcoin mining in every country so that we will be having pure decentralization in every part of bitcoin ecosystem.

The problem isn't bitcoin or the decentralized platforms, it's the businesses that are doing the KYC. If you really want to not be tracked, they should probably fake your death and start of a new life.

It is our responsibility, if only OP knows that then this thread wouldn't have existed in the first place. Also that's how decentralized platform works, you are responsible for your own skin and if you aren't then you won't last long probably.

That is terrible, I was unaware they had added the ability to make money expire after some time, I have read about that capability for some time and how governments wanted to add it somehow to their money and it seems this is becoming a reality, however while they are stealing away the possibility of saving with their digital currencies it is as f they do not realize such a characteristic is going to kill that currency, after all while inflation is simply the increase in the money supply inflation is not really felt until the money velocity increases up to a certain point and a feature that forces you to spend your money will do exactly that.

Bitcoin wasn't created for either of the purposed that the title of the thread mentions. And while over the years KYC becomes more common, it's been rightly mentioned that Bitcoin isn't the one to blame for this because it's actually various companies that introduce it. Moreover, transparency and decentralization always seemed to come before anonymity for Bitcoin, and I'm personally okay with this. After all, most of us use bank accounts and have social media profile anyway, so a lot of info about us is available to various people and companies. Bitcoin is just a drop in the ocean, but it does other things pretty well.

Even i was not aware of the obstacles they set in place for their currency, someone posted about it here about the expiry  and that is when i came to know about that and it is clear that they did not create that to replace anything because any monetary system will not work if there is a expiry date and i think they did that because they know that they experiment will fail and they wanted an excuse for the failure  :D.

Even if Bitcoin was not created for the purpose of forcing the exchange to verify every deal it was evident that we will see these sort of restrictions as the exchanges will be forced to carry on these procedure to avoid any serious legal issue in the name of money laundering.

I guess if KYC is everywhere in the crypto world, then it is part of the crypto world. I get that in gambling part of it there are some that ask for KYC and there are some that doesn't ask for KYC so you can make an exception there however when it comes to fiat2crypto or vice versa those exchanges make sure to get your KYC even for smallest things and that's the thing that matters.

I can't send fiat to buy crypto without giving my KYC, all companies ask for it, there are none that doesn't ask for it, it is not even an alternative situation it is in everyone of them. I am sure there must be few out there in the world left but not for my nation, I know all the good ones and they all ask for it. This is why we can't just say that "it is the companies, it is not bitcoin itself asking for your KYC", if EVERY company that you have a path to asks for it, then it is part of bitcoin itself.

It's probably just a thread against bitcoins on an attempt to lower the price. It can become very frustrating when we want to hold bitcoins but can't afford to buy at the current price level. I think we all l or that bitcoins are here to track it enslave us. It's exactly the opposite, we have more freedom and anonymity with bitcoins compared to fiat money.

We also have to understand that companies don't want to be a part of the problem regarding money laundering so they implement KYC so they don't have to face troubles in the near future.

The traditional banking system is much more convenient to track you than bitcoin. Banks take KYC data and have every transaction and user's details in their database. The centralized system is easy to track human activity that's why bitcoin was created to make a decentralized financial system. It's not about money always but the system that wants to enslave you. Bitcoin was created to throw away that system.

Yeah privacy through anonymous is the biggest benefit we can enjoy because of bitcoin/decentralization. But, when bitcoin is dominated by one group of miners and all bitcoin related services are enforcing about KYC clearances then we might need to think about the original essence of having bitcoin will still intact or slowly getting polluted due to non-caring its adopters?

Only when people who are already adopting bitcoins, will be talking about maintaining a balanced decentralization, anything possible harmful may get rectified. When everyone is not caring about what is going on bitcoin ecosystem, then slowly we may not have bitcoin as a decentralized system.

You just need to be realistic and understand that any state wants and will control financial flows on its territory and therefore, in any case, will find ways to implement it. Therefore, anonymity and decentralization may well exist in small transactions, but large transactions are a completely different matter and the big financial tycoons who make them in any case will then inform the state authorities or the state authorities themselves will force them to do it. Therefore, privacy and decentralization can exist only to a certain extent, the boundaries of which are determined by the state.

such ridiculous conspiracy, doesn't matter what's come after bitcoin was intentionally made for p2p without any middlemen intervention, any thing that goes against that like KYC, etc all enforced by the centralized institution,
 its not like we demand any exchange to be that complicated anyway and I don't believe the whitepaper publisher was NSA lol even bitcoin itself im pretty sure goes against their interests so why they should bleed themselves.
also if you see the government also working hard to make crypto entirely taxable etc and all the regulation in every corner was released but don't you think that if btc was truly their masterplan why they are not prepared earlier instead of opposing crypto first.

I think they are dumb enough to think this is somehow going to work, it is obvious this is an attempt by them to rob people from the possibility to build wealth over time, after all from their point of view this is bad for the economy, every dollar that you have saved it is a dollar that is not out there producing so they are trying to force in an underhanded way for the people to spend or invest that money, but as I said at the end of the day this is going to be counterproductive for them and the economy in general.

I believe there are lot of other alternatives are available for not transacting in big volume/in big amount.
Everywhere large transactions are really a problem but at least with bitcoin transactions we are having assurance to keep our identity protected.

If you're feeling like splitting large volume into multiple smaller volume will lead to unnecessary transaction costs then probably you need to get into some other marketplace where your country's regulations are not at all applicable. With bitcoin we can have that kind of solution because no one will able to track your bitcoin transactions but only the exchange related transactions.

I don't think anywhere and also on this forum if there is any legal binding for you to trade any of the coins. My instinct if you are not cool with the US and China into this cryptocurrency you can take time off and if you think you will regret it in the long run  take your time to figure out whatsoever this is with you.

It's one of the biggest draws of a digital currency for governments that want to mandate stimulus.  Whereas now the government doles out money to everyone and if you just save it it helps the economy in no way, with a digital currency you could tag dollars with an expiration period and ostensibly certain spending parameters so that the stimulus payments can only be spent on certain items (no booze, no lottery tickets, etc.).

Unless they are Satoshi Nakamoto and have been buying Bitcoins for over a decade now. That would change a lot but we would never find out about that anyway. I guess the mistrust among government towards Bitcoin is quite reasonable. The Russians may have thought Bitcoin is a US project, the US may have thought it's the Koreans or the Russians and so on. We will never find out who built Bitcoin and hence we won't have answers to many questions and considerations.

There are still lots of things that haven't been answered yet when we do talk about the owner or who had built bitcoin until this very moment and when it comes to decentralized aspect or feature

then there's no doubt that this one wasn't created about enslaving or tracking out but rather goes to the opposite side and this is what it makes too big and been mainly supported.

Government had already some bad impressions and views about its existence and trying out to get rid but still failed up until this moment.

or...it was created as digital cash .

They won't create a digital currency that they won't benefit from if I am being honest because the government no matter how incompetent they are, they will only put in some work if their interest is highly favored.