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Despite Tesla's first quarter earnings, Tesla is still an unprofitable automobile manufacturer. Digging into the numbers, Tesla reported a $438M GAAP net income, but they had $518M in regulatory credit sales and more than $100M in profit related to bitcoin sales (they sold a total of $272M worth of bitcoin in Q1), which means the primary business of manufacturing cars is still not profitable.  Perhaps as they continue to scale this will change, but the valuation still looks insane at these levels, and electric vehicle competition is only going to get stiffer going forward.

It will take a decade before their stock price would justify the profits made from selling cars.
Their products are good, their marketing works like wonder, they have already a huge fan base that has transformed into a cult but the problems are still there, they will need to achieve the size of BMW and Mercedes and keep the same profit margin per car as those and furthermore start paying dividends on their stock.

But that's not the concern of the people holding stock, they don't care about the math, they care about the price, and there is currently nothing stopping it, at least for a few years when the other manufacturers that have finally figured out they simply need to use the same car body but an electric engine, not some scoobydoo van (see urbanetic (https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/vehicles/transporter/vision-urbanetic-the-mobility-of-the-future/)) to get some clients. I3? Common, who's the genius behind that design?

That being said, they did make some profit from selling coins, so, should they switch and build and exchange and a mining farm instead of cars and batteries?  ;D

I think it's too early to expect positive Operational Incomes from Tesla when it's at such a growing stage across different geographies. Tesla is still like a huge startup which has got listed. Valuations are Insane due to huge potentials in future of Electric Vehicles. I mean if any day consumption pattern of Electric Market changes. Tesla has both capability and Brand to cater that Market. It would easily be able to cater more than half of that demand while traditional automakers will take time to adapt to that change. Very interesting thing here is the bitcoin investment. If they are able to generate good profits to offset their operational loss using other incomes that's a good sign of health of the company. It would mean company has a huge bandwith to sustain despite of long losses which obviously COVID could give them.

Maybe not that long if people start wising up and buying electric-powered cars instead of gas-guzzling monstrosities.  And I'm not sure how extensive Tesla's product offering is, but it might help if they produced some cars targeted at the average workaday person (and they might--again, I'm not familiar with how many models they have but I do know they produce some very expensive ones). 

I just took a look at their EPS, and it looks like it's $0.62/share with a P/E of 1,173x.  So they're definitely an overvalued stock, and especially if bitcoin sales account for a significant portion of their profits for the last quarter (or any quarter) since that's not their core business. 

Why the hell did they even buy bitcoin if they were just going to sell it so quickly?  Sure, they might have made a profit but they're not in the business of currency speculation.  At least with MSTR, they're keeping their bitcoin as an alternative to cash and presumably plan to hold it long-term.

I do agree the future is electric, but the valuation is priced as if Tesla will be the only electric car maker and that's simply not the case.  Further, I think the traditional manufacturers will do a better job once they are fully electric, which some have pledged to be sooner than others, but just about every major automaker pledges to have a pretty robust offering  they have all pledged to be in the not-too-distant future.  Plus some of the new models look sharper to me than the Tesla equivalent.  I especially like the look of the Audi E-Tron.

when car manufacturers are in the expansion phase they are never profitable
every penny goes into making newer bigger facilities. if they just stored the money. declared it as profit and paid tax on it. they are wasting it

no expanding business makes profit. its how they expand.
paper losses dont equal property losses

heck even trump earned hundreds of millions and only declared a couple thousand in profit (less than a minimum wage waitress would declare)

even bezos under declares his true financial state to pretend he is not making profit

Actually when a share is listed, it's just not about the correct valuation, you would find 60% of times stocks are way over or undervalued than their actual valuations that because people perceive companies differently. Lot of its valuation comes from his energetic CEO who has a good reputation in eyes of people as a leader and Entrepreneur. A lot of its reputation comes from bringing the Innovation in every model like the auto pilot mode and everything. So these sentimental factors also add upto valuation. But yes it's currently high and you'll see soon it'll coincide with real valuation that's how market is.

That is how fast growing companies work nowadays. They spend way more then they produce. Lending money is super cheap. Tesla will just keep making loss. Every year. That is economy and society we build. Maybe we will change that in the future. Maybe Bitcoin will help us achieve that. So people and companies will first produce to spend and not lend to spend.

Many people in this topic overlooked or underrated this. Tesla has been the lone runner in electric vehicle market for more than a decade but so far, the only thing that makes them stand out among other manufacturers is Autopilot system. Now that traditional auto makers have taken part in EV market, competition becomes fierce. So far, it's been Audi E-Tron, Porsche Taycan, Mercedes-Benz EQS and the less known Lucid Air. Tesla might hold some advantages in terms of specs but soon, those will be caught up since Audi, Porsche or Mercedes-Benz is no amateur in the auto industry. The far from perfect Autopilot isn't enough to put Tesla far ahead its competitors.

Though I like Elon Musk for his interest in bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, I think he should pay more attention to Tesla.

I think Tesla is still in the growth stage, they are trying to build new factories all around the world while developing better batteries. Investors are just hyped about the future to come for Tesla. Once the new batteries have range of 1000 - 2000 kms the cars become much more attractive for many families. On top of  that is Elon Musk speculating on a harder stand against global warming. If the governments around the world will make new taxes against traditional fuel based cars it will be much more attractive to buy a Tesla. The future will be electric cars while the fuel based cars will die out.

And renault twizy with no windows so that you can get wet when it rains :D

For some time I thought who the hell is designing BMW these days. Most of their ideas are shit.
I3 with its stupid doors that have to be closed in the right order or they'll jam.
I8 that's unreliable, overpriced and plays engine sounds from speakers for whatever reason
The grills of new models getting bigger and bigger and now they look like a pig's nose...

Tesla is like Apple for cars. It has fanboys that are going to keep paying for overpriced shit and it's not going to disappear. Musk is set for years to come.

I haven't checked in a while but remember seeing Tesla with a P/E ratio of 1,600 relatively recently and that is just a disaster waiting to happen. It seems that every single car manufacturer around the world is now transitioning to electric vehicles and that will ultimately eat the market that Tesla is trying to conquer. At the same time those credit sales will eventually evaporate as other car manufacturers stop needing to buy carbon credit offsets. Far from being able to tap the Chinese market, all their tech is likely to go stolen by Chinese manufacturers after they open their gigafactories and Tesla vehicle manufacturing hubs - to be incorporated into local manufacturers who will slash the price. Ultimately they are a car manufacturer and that is a highly competitive industry with volatile consumer tastes - it will be just another brand battling to stay alive. The driverless tech is pretty advanced but is unlikely to be perfected for a long time, with every crash bringing a little bit more mistrust. Who knows when the bubble will pop and hopefully it is a slow deflation.

I haven't dipped deep about the result of the Tesla income this year but a lot of companies around the world will make some losses last year and this year due to the effect of the pandemic that also affected the economy so it normal if they make lost in this year Q1. After all they things are not always like this with them and I am sure a lot of the Tesla investors will be happy that Elon invested in Bitcoin and this news is enough to increase the positive image of Bitcoin.

Why not? They've risked, bough, made a profit, sold!
Huawei is entering the pig farming business, Tesla might get into the casino business with the knowledge they've got, I've seen far weirder things going around, gas companies closing and selling gas stations in one-third of the country but buying two hotels in the area, a former chain store business going into electric distribution while their former business was going bankrupt and so on...
And probably in every country where are some even more extreme examples, Nokia was making paper a century ago  ;D


The I3 looks like the result of a car crash but I do like the I8, it was a car that finally looked good, as I was saying BMW seems to have learned from the past mistakes, the I4 wilL not be another monstrosity but just the regular G22 4 series with an electric motor, as for Mercedes there is little to no difference between the EQC/A and the GLC/A series.

My guess is they took some profits because who would expect it to rise that quickly?  At the end of the day, they're a car manufacturer with significant capital requirements.  I thought it was stupid of them to lock up capital in Bitcoin in the first place if it was going to be a long term hold, but I was wrong about how much they needed at the time.  Bitcoin could have just as easily dropped 50% as risen 50% after they bought it, which would have harmed their financials and wouldn't have gone over well with investors who are already shelling out insane multiples for the stock.  It remains an incredibly risky move, so it makes sense to lock in some of the gains.

Tesla itself became one of the biggest automobile company in terms of value with their stock value increased not from selling their cars that is why we can find Tesla cars are cheaper when we compare the features they are offering for that price. Its true that they made huge profits from bitcoin but they are not going to connect their bitcoin investments to their company but they do accepts BTC as payment to buy a Tesla now.

Not for now but this isn't something that you can really get some good results when it comes to EV business.For now it is already getting some recognition but not really much
if we do compared into those petrol car companies but at least you can see some demand or need of it but not that much.If they would sustain up for long future years then
they might get some probability of success when everything turns to be on electric.This is actually a personal company problems and if they aren't really making such profit
then its up to them if they would set to continue or not but I don't see for it to happen anytime soon.

Yeah, that's not how it works. That would be securities fraud since Amazon is a public company and has strict requirements about what has to be reported. You can't "pretend" to not be making a profit. You either are or you're not, and if you are there's no pretending you're not. I think you might be confusing cash-flow and net profit. A lot of companies are cash-flow positive but still not profitable. But being cash-flow positive isn't going to magically make Tesla grow into the valuation they have. At the end of the day, profitability is all that will matter.

I've read that they're setting a standard and goal of making more cars every week.

Soon, they'll get into more competition while most of the known car brands will start getting into electric vehicles too. It might not be as quick as they enter in the competition but they'll also be gradually joining Tesla on the production of EVs.

The world is still largely-dominated by gas automobiles nowadays. And even if there are demands of Tesla cars, or even EV in general, it would still be considered as a niche vehicle since not everyone has the $$$ to buy it nor our current public infrastructure is adapted to cater these cars. It will still take time for Tesla to post profits solely from their EVs and they will have to rely on Elon's shilling on public for their stocks to perform well (which in the long run isn't a good thing)

The situation will definitely change as soon as Tesla establishes itself in the industry of cars. The company is fairly new, so it's not a surprise that they are employing multiple ways to keep the profits coming in while still delivering pristine and luxurious cars to the market, as they have advertised. As soon as Tesla reaches heights like those of Ford's or maybe BMW, their stock price will be justified by the profits they receive in creating cars.

The biggest thing holding back EVs right now is the lack of infrastructure as far as charging goes. There are two issues tackle there: 1) the lack of charging stations leading to "range anxiety" for drivers, and 2) the length of time it takes to recharge batteries.  One thing that really limits EV appeal to American drivers is the thought of being tied to tight limits on how far you can drive because you can't easily recharge your battery.  Assuming charging stations were as plentiful as gas stations, then you would have the issue of how long it takes to refuel the car, with the change being 2-3 minutes to 20-30 minutes under the best circumstances. Both of these are further considerations holding back EV adoption.

You seem not fully read my post. In fact, there are already a lot of competition. Back in the old days, there were only Teslas and Nissan Leaf but Nissan Leaf was never a well-deserved competitor of Teslas. But now the game changed. Even in China, where Tesla set to expand its Giga Shanghai factory (https://insideevs.com/news/462365/tesla-giga-shanghai-expanding-various-directions/), competition is fierce either, with such competitors: BYD, Geely (Polestar) and BAIC. That's why I said Musk should pay more attention on Tesla's main business rather than buying Bitcoin and shilling Doge.

I see negative annual car sales, but they have other revenues to make up for this business. The revenue from carbon credit gives them a lot of money to just pay and research and develop other fields. As for tesla cars, I think it will be difficult for them to compete with other brands, since the minds of people are still not accepted by many.

Tesla definitely needs to focus. It's not even the market leader in China for EVs.  So far in 2021, Tesla has sold 52.8k Model 3s, but the market leader has sold nearly double that- 96.6k Wuling HongGuang Mini EVs.  (https://insideevs.com/news/503350/china-plugin-sales-march-2021/)  No doubt these cars are vastly different, but every EV sold by a competitor is a sale Tesla has 0% chance of making.

Investors invest their money in Tesla because they anticipate that in the future, Tesla will become dominant in producing electric cars. In addition, Elon Musk is believed to change the world on an enormous scale. Thus, being not profitable does not mean that they will not succeed. Observe bitcoin for yourself, many people who bought bitcoin at $10000 refuse to hold it, but others, remain silent and keep collecting bitcoin for a long period of time and at the moment, they are in the depth of joy

Not enough to behonest, plus I am pretty sure that they will bounce back once their cars become less expensive, I think that it is the only thing that is keeping them from getting a lot of sales, their cars are expensive because it is is an electric car, maybe if the government put some sort of incentive for owning an electric car, they might be able to see some big jump in sales.

With the over-whelming response for the Tesla products it looks like we have a steal deal which will go up slowly! The product is launched at the wrong time, I mean the covid situation has engulfed most of the market for the Tesla or any other automobile industry. I am pretty confident that Tesla's will be raoming throughout the world real soon when the market re-opens. Tesla's new production in India can be call out for the biggest deal possible. However, considering the current hardship of India in the view of covid the operations are too slow.

Tesla have not even entered the global market. Once that car starts roaming everywhere it will show us how profitable the company is.
So the best advice would be buying the shares today so that after couple of years when things will be slit, we can see nice up surge for the same.

The race here is Tesla against the traditional auto industry. It is clear that the tradicional makers are now swapping quickly to the EV, however they have the burden of their old assets and production means along with the intelectual property that was serving as a moat for them an is no longer useful for electric cars. This is all about how Tesla manages to use it advantages including exclusive dedication to EV, intelectual property and patents, etc... versus how fast are the traditional in switching , and how efficient at creating new defensive moats in the industry.

its still beginning i guess, according to this chart (https://www.statista.com/statistics/272130/net-loss-of-tesla/) , Tesla turned a full-year profit for the first time on record in 2020 , there was never any profit before that, well , expensive price for a single cars probably make this car hard to buying for general people like me , and also like tax etc , but well , it's only a matter of time before there is no more gas to dig up.

I understand your post about him focusing to Tesla. The other competition that I've mentioned aren't those brands that you have mentioned but the other Japanese brands like Toyota and Honda.

I've just read the news that they're be going to focus in EV soon but it will take time. But you're right that as early as now, he should be focusing with Tesla and dominate its market.

But he's a guy that has a lot of time to do things, he even has his SpaceX.

For Tesla, the main issue is that they are unable to make any improvement to their current battery technology. Their batteries are too expensive (contributes to almost 50% of the total cost of the vehicle), too heavy (which affects the performance) and needs to be replaced every 5-6 years. They have a better version available with them, which is more efficient and long lasting. But this version has failed during safety tests. So for the foreseeable future, they are stuck with the current Ni-Co-Al battery technology.

....


Parts shortages forced tesla to shutter factories and cease car production.


That played a key role in tesla failing to be profitable.

^^^^ So any idea when this chip shortage issue will be resolved? I have seen a few posts in social media, which claims that the shortfall in supply is going to persist for a few more months. Also, I have seen a statement from Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Corporation (world's largest producer of chips?), which claims that they have stepped up their production. However, supply chain issues remain for the chip manufacturers in Taiwan.

IMO circumstances behind parts shortages are entirely political.

They're not a natural result of market mechanics, supply chains or any normal shortfall.

In the past when the media offered false explanations for events like this. Many immediately saw through it.

It shows the growth and evolution of how information is disseminated. Now they're offering no explanation or information at all. The few explanations I've seen offered were so horrible/laughable I think people will realize something strange is happening. If they haven't already.

Tesla is too futuristic for the average consumer and also to expensive. The average Joe can't afford a Tesla, let alone have a place to plug her in at night. The Tesla is a luxury vehicle and let's not forget that we are indeed within Pandemic that kind of puts things into a recession. I believe that when the economies around the globe star to pick up after the pandemic starts to fade, and we return to normal
 (what ever the new normal is, off course). I have faith in Musk, he is really ballsy, that podcast that he did with Rogan where he was fried from all the kush, he won me over that day. It even lost him investors, but gained him some new fans, especially since he's pro Bitcoin!

Don't count Musk and Tesla out,  I'm calling it first, With Musk's Bitcoin purchases , Tesla is set to become the next Weyland yutani corporation (minus teh zenomorphs)

So do you think if the famous car manufacturers in the world also switch to electric cars, I still keep the view that they are just ushering in a new era in the auto industry but I don't think sales will increase if more encouraged.

In the current economy, is no wonder every business is unprofitable. Small and big businesses are not profiting because every one since 2020 experienced the money problem up to this day, so why would someone who sees the future is very uncertain buy Tesla cars. Not everyone can afford it too.

The Dogefather knew it will happen so he turns his head to BTC after all he had already made money through BTC before 2017. Now he is making more money in pumping Doge.

I honestly don't understand why people valuate Tesla at such high levels.

It virtually makes no sense. People are essentially pricing in decades worth of earnings growth into an unprofitable company. Automakers that have been making profits for decades, like BMW and Mercedes, are somehow outpriced in terms of market cap.

A 50 P/E ratio is considered to be bubble territory. Tesla currently has a four digit P/E of 1,100. Think about that.

I agree that Tesla may be a bit overvalued, but P/E may be a wrong parameter to look at. During the early days, many of the multi-trillion corporations of today (such as Microsoft, Yahoo and Amazon) had a P/E of more than 1,000. Many of these corporations had an operating loss, so in most cases there was no P/E to start with. Tesla is having an operating profit (although small) and therefore it is possible to calculate the P/E. We should be rather looking in to the yearly sales and growth percentage.

Well, my guy the reason that make a big deal out of them is because they have a relatable CEO and they are almost the talk of a lot of forums and message boards. Not to mention that they are innovative in terms of automobile, the reason I believe that they are unprofitable is because electric cars in general are still expensive compared to gas powered guzzlers.

only because governments choose to subsidize oil over solar.

simply make oil pay for all the spills and all the pollution it does. and gas cars are no longer cheap.

It's deeper than that, they don't want their oil baron friends stop paying their vacations and their grandsons college fund so they have to do anything they can to make oil and fossil fuels as an energy source not to mention that when green energy is introduced, a lot of businesses are going to go under because they are not green energy and they will lobby everyone in power to make it impossible to fully adopt green energy.

Tesla, big as it has become, is essentially still a start-up that is burning through more cash that it can sustainability generate, even if they have decided to declare profits. You are using the wrong metrics to evaluate Tesla, e.g. if you wanted to value Amazon on a P/E ratio a few years ago it would have been infinite because they were not making profit.

For companies such as Tesla is all about optionality and growth, you can´t just throw a P/E to it.

Tesla cars are still expensive(mostly because of the batteries) and the supporting infrastructure or is not well developed.Perhaps,if Tesla engineers find a way to produce cheaper batteries,then Tesla cars might be more affordable for the working class.It will take decades for electric cars to beat the competition of conventional cars.The consumers are used to driving conventional cars,so switching to an electric car will be weird for the "old school" automobile fanatics.

everyone wants Tesla, but not everyone can buy Tesla. it's just a display for billionaires to show off their collection. If I were to choose between Tesla and Bitcoin, I would definitely choose Bitcoin. apart from the Tesla company business to adopt Bitcoin and so on, what makes Tesla that special in the eyes of bitcoiners?

Making a profit is not as important as you might think if you are making that much revenue. I understand that people who own a shop, any small business usually end up spending the income either to upgrade their business a bit more, or usually to live basically, most barely make enough to continue living.

Tesla is not like that, it is not even nowhere near that level, Tesla makes so much revenue that they keep pumping it back into business and grow it as big as it gets, they are focusing on starting more and more manufacturing places which will allow them to actually manufacture cars at a rate where people can buy one anytime they want, without waiting, without color problems, you go to tesla dealer, say whatever you want and get exactly that, in order to reach those levels you need to actually spend a quite good amount of money, tens of billions of dollars. However I do believe that they will be profitable in less than a decade.

Think about the scale of projected future EV market growth.

Future government requirements for a percentage of cars produced by manufacturers to be electric vehicles.

Tesla's expected sales growth when cybertruck production begins in 2022. Tesla's presentations on their new battery technology and licensing plans.

TSLA's current price doesn't so much reflect its current market value, as it does its projected worth in the future.

No car manufacturer will ever aim at this as it's a waste of money to have all the combinations possible on stock, it's simply isn't efficient and you lock a lot of production time into cars that might never be sold and with the acceleration in the change of design and depreciation for older models that simply can't waste money on that. It does work for cars with fewer options with customers that can easily change their mind for a 100$ discount but it doesn't work for luxury cars, and that's where Tesla has always aimed to be.

Plus, even if the capitalization now is for what is Tesla supposed to do in ten years, the number are still ridiculous, Tesla has a market cap larger than the 8 biggest car makers who manufacture right now more than 60 million cars a year, and even if we count only electrics the 4 german brands have already sold more than Tesla if we combine their electric car sales. And this while having a lot of ground to recuperate, so, how could Tesla achieve more than 50 million cars sold in the world to justify that market cap, it's either they are overvalued or the others are the opposite.

we can see that Tesla is for the upper class. Of course, for myself, I prefer bitcoin over Tesla, and I don't think the production is too booming to be accepted by the general public. and currently Tesla is looking for money from bitcoin, after yesterday recording a profit on its investment

Tesla cars are very expensive, but that alone won't make them upper class. The quality and specs are not as good as the luxury brands, such as BMW or Mercedes Benz. Tesla vehicles have become some sort of a status symbol among the young, especially who want to show that they are environmentally sensitive. But you will never get the feeling of driving a Lamborghini or Audi with Tesla. And perhaps that is the reason why the EVs still have a very small market share among the overall automobile market.

Wow that's such a huge amount of profit from bitcoin. Such a great company, able to take the chance, grab every opportunity and make the most of it.
But well, tesla is getting more and more popular, especially with their electric car, at least in my country it's getting more hype and many people want to buy it. I bet, they will not have any problem with their car sales, it might just take some times, since their car is super expensive as well, huge volume of sales is quite hard to achieve, although doesn't mean that it's impossible.

It is entirely possible that Tesla will become profitable not because of their car sales business but as holders of bitcoin, also we must understand that even if Tesla is not profitable now the value of something not only depends on its past and present it also depends on its future, and stockholders are looking at the future of Tesla and they think there is a lot of potential there and they do not want to miss it, in the worst case scenario they earn some money and drop the stock in the future, but in the best case scenario they are holding the next Microsoft or Apple and they become insanely rich because of it.

They probably don't make big profits as an automobile manufacturer right now because it is about electric cars. But. let's see what can Tesla does in the next future, maybe for several periods nearly, when electric cars become the most wanted in the world, probably Tesla will be the one leading.
Every company has its own target and also progress about its promotion, marketing, income, selling points, and others. Although it is not too profitable right now (as what the OP said), in fact, it is a big company that brings more profits with many developments, and also technology about tomorrow automobile.

Tesla is still growing their business' range. This is a very ambitious company which is investing a lot of money in development, but it will take some time yet until they start working at the same level of the competitors. I think it's not an issue for them though, because they always work thinking on long run. Tesla isn't even disponible in every countries yet, while another automotive companies are probably everywhere.
Furthermore there is some difference between not being profitable and not fully declaring the profits...

What’s the basis of being profitable? Is there a limit for that?
As far as I understand, TESLA is still on a net profit despite of the pandemic we’re into right now and that can still be consider as profitable excluding those profit outside their real business. TESLA is growing because they continue to adopt change and they develop good things, more cars of TESLA will be sold in the coming years.

The most important problem of companies like Tesla is their overvaluation by the market, because having a small profit compared to traditional car companies, Tesla's capitalization is higher. This is not the real state of affairs, but rather the hopes of investors and the stock market about the hypothetical future of the company multiplied by government funds to support the economy, which flow into the stock and other speculative markets. Therefore, it is difficult to imagine what will happen if, for example, Tesla does not meet the expectations of investors with its activities and whether its collapse will serve as a trigger for the collapse of the entire stock market.

Just because Bitcoin added $100 million plus to the Tesla balance sheet for this quarter, I don't expect this to happen every time. Right now Bitcoin is going through a bullish phase and Tesla is also benefitting from it. But my question is what will happen once the bullish phase ends and a correction occurs. Instead of a net gain from Bitcoin sales, Tesla will be showing a net loss. And this may be unpalatable for many Tesla investors.

indeed when the bearish season arrives, Tesla will be confused about looking for profit, but for me all of this has been taken into account Tesla, when they are still minimal in electric car turnover, they are looking for other fields to support the implementation of their main business which initially requires a large turnover.

Musk knows how to deal with numbers. They are far from being profitable as a car manufacturer but you have to consider the D&R and investments in capital assets they are doing. Yes investments can be activated, but purely from car sales that will take some time. Once they get rolling I think they will become not only profitable, but the most profitable car company in the world.

I am not saying that's going to happen by 2023, but I would say by 2030 they are unstoppable when research in batteries has progresses and more renewable energy is available and much more.

In the  educated world's opinion, there's no conspiracy theory behind the parts shortage. The media has not offered false explanations, and nobody who was informed saw through it because there was no ruse to see through. The parts shortage is a result of market dynamics, and all industries that use chips are dealing with it.

Tesla will be making its money from crypto trading from now on I believe. Buy low, sell high. Works for everybody. :d Why make cars when you can make a lot more money from trading crypto? It doesn't make any sense. I think It is time for Elon to close down TSLA and become a full time crypto-trader. Manufacturing stuff is so last decade. Trading crypto is where it is at now.

Yahoo was definitely never a trillion dollar company, but I take your point. The one thing that actual trillion dollar companies have going for them though is a huge competitive advantage and defensive moat. Amazon is an unrivaled logistics company, Microsoft is firmly entrenched in business culture, and Apple is firmly entrenched in consumer culture.  Tesla has a first-move advantage and nothing else.  In a few years, they will compete against every major auto manufacturer and there's no way they'll be able to grow market share enough to justify this valuation, which treats them like they'll be the only EV producer.

Yes, but Tesla is not your ordinary car company so their business model is a bit more unique than other US car companies. They're a simply a technology company that makes cars, so all their share holders are banking on their battery technology being used to shift the world away from fossil fuels and more towards electric power batteries (presumably based on renewables). Tesla posts all their financials online available to everyone and their shareholders, it was no secret that they were hemorrhaging money. It isn't a bunch of cleaver accounting either, they were nearly broke at one point.

The main source of their profitability comes from selling regulatory credits the government gives them for manufacturing EVs to other other car manufacturers.  Essentially, without government support the company wouldn't be profitable at all, but this shows that they're not profitable on manufacturing cars yet.

Tesla is like dogecoin, they are here only because of Elon Musk

As a company CEO, If I had to rely on selling some portion of my cash reserves, and in our case is not cash but it's BTC, I should be asking myself what is going wrong. Tesla, being an automotive firm, cannot rely on that to dilute the earnings and show the market some huge profits. It could work for a while but in the end these guys manufacture cars and they're not an exchange.

Man, you are perfectly right! We are such a small humans beside this giant monsters!
And I have also a small share of Tesla and for now is very unprofitable.

During the dot com boom, the NASDAQ index was at around 1/10th of the level which it is now. And Yahoo had a peak valuation above $100 billion in 1999-2000, and the P/E was similar to what Tesla is having right now. But the bubble only lasted for a few months, and the stock prices crashed by more than 90% in 2000-01. In many parameters, Tesla resembles the dot-com stocks of 1999-2000. Their current business model using overpriced EVs is not very sustainable. But we need some more clarity on the competition. A number of other automobile corporations are ramping up their EV sector, but in terms of technology I would like to see how they fares against Tesla. The current competition (Nissan, Hyundai.etc) is noway near Tesla in terms of technology.

Good analysis. I also think similar. Everything (crypto included) is in a bubble except a few assets maybe. The question is, is this time different? Will the markets go up forever this time without a correction? What if we don't get a dotcom like crash and climb without any market correction?

As far as the EV's go... I am not really a EV believer. I will buy a petro-car as long as they let me buy it. Not really a fan of batteries.

No market will ever go up forever without a correction.  Large market corrections are actually pretty common.  The stock market suffers a 10% correction on average less than every two years, and a 20% correction on average every 3.5 years.  So such large drops are by no means rare or unexpected.  Even over the last 10 years when we've had the greatest bull market in history there were periods where the market had flash crashes; they just recovered quickly and so people tend not to remember.

Tesla's value comes from thinking that everyone should use electric vehicles and solar power equipment. Their technology is the pioneer and the future of mankind. So the value of Tesla is the value of belief.
They are paying dividends to investors through the solar cell business and Bitcoin trading. This is not very good. The electric car industry should have been a profitable industry for them.

That too... Tesla's main business is making cars, not crypto trading. They may make money from crypto trading but that's not their main expertise. Why would anybody buy any TSLA just because they are making money from trading but not making cars is beyond me.

I'd rather invest in JP Morgan or Goldman if I wanted to invest in an investment bank.

Tesla now holding a huge bitcoin and they joined the whale club now.The large amount of bitcoin holders are whale in the market and the decided the flow of bitcoin and in reverse change the price of bitcoin with the demand of the coin.When the tesla made a electric vehicle with the acceptance of bitcoin of payment will double the bitcoin price.

I believe corrections and crashes are a bit different. Crash is what happened in last years march, and what happened in 2008, these are of course stock markets (for crypto look at 2015 and 2018) and those are different from corrections, in 2017 or 2018 there was a correction for stock market as well, a 10% drop is nothing, that happens even 2 years like mentioned and that's fine, I am fine with that but having some sort of situation where 40% or so drop is a crash and not a correction. Will tesla have a correction or a crash? Well, it depends on how they move forward, they are selling a lot of cars and there is still so much they could sell to as well, people literally just put their order in and wait until they get it, think about a world where you can just buy it and go home, at that moment it will be great.

However the price is already like they are at that level whereas they are not, if the price doesn't go up too much from now to future 2 years, just 10-20% yearly, then it may have a correction, but if it keeps going up like this that will turn into a crash one day.

Tesla is a very big company in the world of car making companies. Tesla is also a very popular company that manufactures electric cars and export in the whole world. Tesla spend a lot of money in buying bitcoin. But this company is still making a huge money through cars.

That is the big question, we all know that holding your coins is the easiest thing to do in the world when the market is going up but when the market is going down it is also the hardest, we must also remember that even if Elon is still managing Tesla and his other companies if he retires then he will need to leave command of his businesses to other people and if they are not as ardent believers in bitcoin as he is then most likely they will sell any bitcoin they have crashing the market in the process.

Tesla is still growing and they have a really huge fan base which is definitely going to grow with time, unless they happen to mess it up themselves, which I know for sure that they wouldn’t like to try such a thing, so they are going to do their best to keep their followers and as well grow their business, they already have good marketers. So, let’s see where they will be heading to in the future.

Is there any link to that? ANd how to determine when Tesla is no profitable automaker industry?
Do the profits only take count from how many Tesla that was sold?
Well, I am sure enough if tesla actually has enough profits. however, we don't know because we don't know the aim of the activities. And about Tesla buying Bitcoin. This may become one of the strategy before bearish down

If we do just think sensible or with some common sense.If Tesla isnt a profitable company then Elon would be considered to be the richest man in the world?
People do just make out some conclusions based up on whats the current thing or event that they are seeing on what Tesla is been doing.Is profit taking into their Bitcoin stash can be considered the reason
that they arent profitable?

People should always have some reconsiderations on making out presumptions that Tesla is an unprofitable company.They wont be continuing the business if it werent profitable.

Not surprised. EVs are unaffordable and not worth the money under current circumstances. A Tesla Model S costs around $80,000, and you can get a decent gasoline-driven car with the same specs for around $20,000. So right now, purchasing an EV doesn't make any financial sense. Still you can go for it, for ideological purposes. The issue here is that ideological factor may not drive enough sales. The EV needs to be more affordable. A difference of 4x is too much. If it was 1.5x to 2.0x, then more people would consider purchasing EVs.

I am not at all convinced by these electric vehicles: first of all, they still rely mostly on fossil fuels to run (sorry, the truth); secondly, their batteries are going to be another environmental bomb in the future (not considering the car itself is an actual bomb if something goes wrong!); third and last, at least here in Italy, charging station are not common, and if you live in rural areas and you make long trips, you are done.

Make no mistake, I wouldn't buy one even they were selling a Model 3 for $20k. I'd still prefer a oil-powered car.

1- Their batteries are very expensive and you don't really know when they are going to crap on you.
2- I don't trust their safety. Sometimes they get overheated and burn you alive.
3- When you get a car accident the chances are your car won't ever get a repair and their re-sell value is not that great. (Most likely it is 0.)
4- Even when you fast-charge it, it is still not as fast as pumping oil.
5- The range is not great.
6- It is not green energy. It is just another form of energy.

Tldr; EVs suck.

Tesla is a large technology corporation. They make profits from energy batteries, sell intellectual products, and manufacture and sell electric cars. Most recently they traded Bitcoin.
It's not unusual for a car business to be profitable for a tech corporation to be profitable, but fortunately, they can make money in other businesses.
If they continue to be unprofitable, they may lose market share by other electric car corporations.

That’s the same thing with every company, they are there because of their founders or team lol. As long as they do a really good job at promoting their company and their products, and also delivering what they promised, then it’s sure going to keep growing.

In some sense Tesla sound like Amazon which is known for operating in the beginning days for non-profits and over the time they slowly changing policies to gain profits; Tesla might be following that.

Not necessarily true.

Sometimes the product is so good, nobody knows the founder or the team. Do you know the CEO of PepsiCo or Nvidia? I don't. I bet many people also don't and yet they buy their products all the time.

If you talk about the CEO more than you talk about the product, that's a very bad sign for the company. TSLA has this all over on them.

I agree, the technology is interesting and there could be a niche market for it but if it was so good above the rest then it would have taken over the industry long time ago, I see Tesla cars the same way I see apple products, they are not really selling a car they are selling a brand, but if you do not really care about the brand then you find out that you can get a product with similar specifications way cheaper with other companies and that is always going to beat any brand marketing.

This is on point where most of things do still prefer on petrol running vehicles when it comes to power and reliability.Yes, it might be that capable but there are other side or key areas on which an electric vehicle cant able to do so, therefore, people do still stick out into traditional things but im not saying that Tesla is shit but there nothing can beat out the traditional automakers out there even though they are considering on build some
EV's but it wont really become a trend.Last, just let Tesla do their own thing and even this one is unprofitable then they are the ones who would make out some losses not us.If you do opt to own one
then its up to your choice but if not then just better ignore and skip on it.This isnt really needing to elaborate which is profitable and which isnt.

The Model S is their higher end offering, it's not meant to be the mass market car. The Telsa Model 3 is the mass market car with a price range in the $30,000 range, so much more affordable to the masses. This brings it close to what the average price paid for a new car is. With the lower price comes compressed margins though, so as Model 3s take up a larger share of revenues, the gross profit on these cars will be considerably less than what Tesla has experienced thus far, which proves another problem for the current valuation.

It's unprofitable because they are still a luxury car in terms of their prices and it costs an arm and leg to buy heir least expensive unit, maybe if they are able to tap into the economic cars unit, they will probably go up in profit but right now, I don't think so. Also, I feel like oil companies are conspiring against Tesla because when electric cars become the dominant one, their products will be unwanted and sales are going to plummet real bad.

I don't think the Model 3 is out of reach for the majority of Americans, and that's the car they're bringing to mass production in hopes of reaching the masses. The problem is the Model 3 is not nearly as profitable as the other Tesla models, even at scale, so margins will compress as they sell more of those cars.

Are you sure that the Telsa Model 3 costs only $30,000? From what I heard, the base model costs around $45,000 and the higher end modifications cost up to $60,000. But even at $45,000 I have to admit that it is closer to being affordable for the middle class. But I have doubts regarding the battery. Do they use the same battery technology as they use in Model S? Or is it of a different composition? Model S uses Lithium-ion batteries produced by Panasonic in state of Nevada. 

If you'd go on the official Tesla website instead of guessing about what you heard you will see for yourself that the Standard Range Plus Model 3 costs $33,690 (and if you are a California resident the price shown include the $1,500 California Clean Fuel Reward and potential incentives and gas savings of $4,300).
Model 3 Long Range is priced at $42,690 and the Performance stays at $51,190.
https://www.tesla.com/model3/design#overview

So $33,690 for an EV, with a range of 424 km? Looks like a very attractive option. And now the crude oil prices are going up once again, and that reduces the attractiveness of the gasoline run vehicles. But there is a catch. This $33,690 is including "potential savings". The purchase price is $39,490. A lot of potential buyers will look into the purchase price, rather than the price after all the savings. So that comes to around $40K, which is still somewhat affordable for the middle class families in the United States.

Not really.

https://www.autopilotreview.com/how-long-charge-a-tesla/

How long do you need to refuel your gas car? 5 minutes?


It Costs $900 to Charge a Tesla During Texas’ Snowstorm Electricity Shortage (https://teslanorth.com/2021/02/17/it-costs-900-to-charge-a-tesla-during-texas-snowstorm-electricity-shortage/)


On the other hand, you can get a brand new gasoline-only Toyota Camry for $25k.

https://i.imgur.com/rr4ZGTr.png
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174760835403?hash=item28b08eb94b:g:JP4AAOSwl6lglUvv

No bullshit, no batteries, cheap, new, built like a tank.

Impossible to beat a Toyota.

What's the range of a Camry btw? I bet it is at least twice of a Model3.

Even Elon Musk said he drives a Toyata Prius during his Saturday Night Live Opening (he was kidding, obviously).
I'd also not consider buying a Tesla, it is overpriced for my standards, there are far better options.
Another thing is I'd never buy full-electric, maybe hybrid or I'd stick to the old fashioned LPG.

It's only the beginning, before Tesla, there were only few electric cars available on the market. Tesla's patents are open source, more and more companies are releasing full EV models, offering decent range, (above 400kms) who can actually compete with Tesla's vehicles (Jaguar I-Pace, Audi E-Tron, Volvo XC40) and many more who are yet to come.

I believe that electric cars have a long way to go, but that technology will be dominant in the future. For instance, Plug-in Hybrids are way cheaper than full EVs, offer great mileage and a decent full electric range.

The other EV brands will take time to capture market share for themselves. It will take many years before they are able to match the level of recognition attained by Tesla. And we still don't know much about the performance of these brands. Companies such as Jaguar and Volvo are pretty new to the EV sector. So if there is some issue with the technology, it is going to be very difficult for these companies to resolve them on time. The patents may be open source, but operational knowledge and experience can't be transferred directly.

Tesla was probably the first one to build well-designed electric vehicles. At the beginning of the EV era, most if not all electric cars looked like crap (see first generation Nissan Leaf), Tesla was the first one to market such a vehicle and quickly gained reputation. Surely, Tesla is the main leader in the EV sector, but I don't think that this will last forever, due to their strict policies, regarding maintenance, repairs, salvage vehicles and so on.

That would be the icing on the cake as they already make their money from selling ecology certificates and now on top comes crypto trading, but they seriously hardly sell any cars as opposed to other car makers, they are tiny in reality.

You're trading off either way. You pay less for the Camry upfront, you pay much more over the life of the car.  Tesla's have lower maintenance cost because there are no oil changes and less costs for all the "under the hood" maintenance.  And the Camry may have 2x the range on one fueling, but it also has 2x-3x the cost of travel as well based on the fuel source.  So you take give and you take.

You are forgetting one thing.

Tesla cars are pretty much irreparable after an accident and even if it was, only the Tesla authorized repair shops are allowed to do so.


While you can get your Toyota's maintenance from any third party for cheap.

It is not as practical as a gas-powered car and the range on EV's suck.

The increases for electricity costs weren't really something anyone can expect though. Prices increase during scarcity, and during a power outage, it's not something you can control. When gas becomes scarce or the price of oil increases, you end up paying a premium anyways.

Electric cars are the future, Tesla's are not the future.

Agreed with the second part, but not with the first part of your sentence. I think EV's are one of the biggest scams of this decade. They are not practical, they are expensive to repair, low resell value and batteries are not really as green as many people think they are.

EV's manufacturers are just reinventing the wheel because capitalism is about to eat its own tail and they need to make current oil-powered cars obsolete to be able to sell these newly made glorified golf-carts.

I am not planning to get an EV in the next 1000 years.

There are many different electric cars on the market, and we're not even considering hybrids, which combine a gas engine with an electric motor. What makes the Tesla Model 3 so special?

Please keep it that way in the US, so we can buy all damaged Teslas, repair them, reprogram them and then use them :)  Friend of mine is in Tesla programming/coding business for quite a few years now, there are just a few guys around Europe that can do what he does. Very good money in it.

Most of the other EVs that are available in the market are budget options and not higher end models. Tesla EVs have a range of 400-500 km on a single charge. The same for the other EVs such as Nissan Leaf is around 200 km. That makes the other EVs unsuitable for intercity travel. Anyway, more automobile manufacturers are now coming up with higher end EV models. That should pose some challenge to Tesla in their price section.

You know what scares me? I mean they are already selling a good amount of cars, but one day they will have 100+ places, most of which would be a huge place, some could be middle and some small, but they will eventually have 100+ plants where they will build cars, some of them will be as huge as a town, and they will be capable of building over a million cars, maybe over few million cars per year, all electric all getting buyers very easily. That means it is not going to be like this, it is going to be a situation where you can go to a gallery and buy a car and leave, no waiting, no problems with manufacturing, it is going to be purely like any other car company.

At that point I do not know how much Tesla will worth, even at this point they worth so much, when it goes up that much it will worth even more. It is like when amazon didn't made a profit but worthed a lot, now they profit and they worth even more.

with Tesla's boom in cryptocurrency news, it seems that many people get to know Tesla closer, so this is indirectly Tesla's advantage. besides that, Tesla is trying to find income from bitcoin, while waiting for Tesla's marketing in electric cars to meet the target. I think this is a good step from Tesla to bring the company to life in its early days

I think they were pretty well known anyway, they didn't need this plus Elon was known a bit more probably but around here, my father who has absolutely no idea about crypto still doesn't have a clue about crypto but he still knows who elon is so that means if you are interested in crypto that would mean you heard about elon a lot more these days but if you are unrelated to crypto the only possible way is if you watch SNL, if you are not interested in crypto nor interested in SNL that means elon is just the tesla guy and that's it.

This is why I think it is quite important to realize how we could potentially put elon to a higher standard ourselves as the crypto people right now compared to rest of the world and how we shouldn't do that anymore. I believe he is not even trying to make a profit with bitcoin, he just wanted to get a lot more attention that's it.

Not really relevant to an assessment of operating cost since being in an accident isn't routine and part of the normal cost of owning a car.  If you get in a lot of accidents, yeah, it's an obvious down side.  If you get in a lot of accidents, you're also probably not the type of driver who buys anything other than total garbage cars anyway.  Range is only a concern for the vast minority of drivers since the number of drivers who drive more than a couple hundred miles in a day is so small.  Operating costs are superior for EVs over gas-powered cars for everyone else.

Operating costs may be lower for Tesla, but the huge expense for maintenance take away that advantage. If I am not wrong, the battery needs to be replaced every 5 years or so and it costs at least $35,000. On the other hand, a gasoline-driven car doesn't need any major replacements for at least 20 years. And regarding accidents, they can occur anytime. You can't just say that all of the accidents happen due to the carelessness of the owner. And in case that happens, the Tesla owner will be in deep trouble.

You don't have to get in a lot of accidents to be able to benefit from the low repair costs of a Toyota. Only 1 will suffice. Even if you don't crash your car ever, it is still not a good idea to get a Tesla but people will choose to learn that by the hard way it seems.

I remember I was hyped af when Elon came up with Model3. TV has that kind of effect on people sadly. They can even sell you their shit if they promote it hard enough. (which is Tesla btw)

OK.. let me summarize Tesla for you:

1. At least 2x more expensive when compared to the gasoline run cars with similar specs
2. Limited range, 300-500 km per charge depending on the model
3. Takes up to 10 hours to charge the EV using a wall connector
4. Repairs are more expensive compared to other cars
5. Battery needs to be replaced every 8 years and it costs around $16,000

6. Cannot operate under snow.

Are you sure about this point? Because they claim that Tesla is as good as any other car in the snow. I don't own a Tesla myself, or have ever driven one. So I checked the internet. And this is what I found:

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/02/16/the-tesla-model-3-is-tons-of-fun-in-the-snow-with-the-right-tires/

The only catch here is that you need to replace the original tires with those that are suitable in the snow. And the Winter Sottozero 3 tires offered by Tesla costs around $4,000 (which is again overpriced, similar to any other Tesla product).

For many years Tesla was an electric car company that did not make a profit from the production and sales of electric cars, but they made money in other ways: selling solar panels and transferring technology. environmental certifications.
Although they are not profitable at the moment, they are increasing sales and making better profits than previous quarters.
I think that they are not profitable that is their strategy to go further in the market.

Sure? No. I watched lots of tesla snow fail videos during the Texas storm though. There are dozens on utub.

In the last 2 years not only Tesla has had below average income but most other companies have also experienced the same thing because of the Covid-19 pandemic, and when Elon Musk started joining the cryptocurrency world, many investors took advantage of this opportunity, because the price of some coins soared thanks to his support

Elon Musk actually stabbed bitcoin recently with his announcements but overall I think he is a positive to the crypto community because of his involvement in dogecoins and he often appreciates bitcoins and crypto which has brought a lot of new traders since millions of investors and traders follow him and his advice.

Tesla is in profit or loss I don't know but they should deliver cars faster. I heard in a recent UFC fight after the fight won he said requested Musk to send the car and later on Twitter replied to it by saying on the way. I mean if celebs are getting it with so much delay, imagine what a common man must go through. This might be part of the company going down, if it is going down though.

If you do a bit of reading you'll see that a price to earnings ratio near the peak was over 1,000. It currently rests at around 500. Any "normal" company has a p/e of let's say 30. A high p/e can sometimes represent a high growth company, where the earnings are expected to grow strongly in the future which would have an effect of lowering the p/e. However Tesla does not really have much special to offer, besides being first to market with mass scale electric cars, a slight advantage of battery research and autonomous driving software (related to several accidents). Car manufacturing is a highly competitive business and while it has taken a while to turn around, pretty much every manufacturer is now focused on electric car models - this is going to make it much harder for Tesla to grow at the expected rates and eat away at their market share. We already see it down more than 40% from the high and there is still plenty of room for it to fall, especially with the erratic management at the top and eco-credits income will be dropping off as competitors bring their own "green" cars into production.

The way I look at it is strictly from the POV of renewables. If we run out of fossil fuels (which we eventually will), what is the alternate source of energy?

My view -- probably nuclear. So nuclear generated energy can produce an insane amount of electricity, so these electric vehicles end up being a lot more efficient granted we can get the battery's to be efficient. Tesla kinda solved this problem, so I think more car companies will follow through. To your point though, gas vehicles won't completely be phased out, because not many people wanna drive an electric golf cart over their pick up trucks.

Tech companies are usually at 30-50 p/e and car manufacturers are around 10-15 p/e. (Toyota p/e is 11 and Ford is 12.30 as I am writing this post)

And since Tesla's main business field is making cars, 500-1000 p/e indicates it is way too overpriced as a car manufacturer.

As a coin trader? Who knows. It seems Elon can manipulate the non-regulated markets as he pleases and since coin markets are not regulated, the SEC won't lift a finger.

Then TSLA would deserve its 500-1000 p/e because Elon can manipulate and steal every single buck left out of the crypto people forever.

In other words, they have other means to augment their income. If they will rely only in selling cars, I don't think they will be earning profits. As only few can afford their brand, they can only sell few number of their cars. However, other economical EVs can sell much more than Tesla as it is the new trend especially in some advanced countries. If you say Tesla, it somehow equates to high-end EV, and we all know, that the masses can't afford such brand.

The current EV technology is not viable in the long term. Despite huge subsidies and tax breaks given by the governments, the EVs still cost more than twice that of an equivalent gasoline-driven version. On top of that maintenance and servicing seems to be more costly as well. In order for EVs to be more economically viable, the battery prices need to come down and they (batteries) need to last more. The current battery technology of Tesla (lithium-nickel-cobalt-aluminum) is even more unsustainable than the fossil fuels in the long run. Because out planet has limited resources of many of these metals.

Although Tesla's earnings are not very profitable, Elon Musk has other businesses that may not all be publicized in the outside world, and recently Elon Musk has started trying to increase his income through cryptocurrency investments by supporting bitcoin and dogecoin, although in the end Elon Musk made a statement that he is no longer accepting Tesla Payments using cryptocurrency, and in the meantime the cryptocurrency market has plummeted again due to the issue.

The battery in a $35,000 car obviously does not cost $35,000.  Gasoline driven cars have regular maintenance on the engine, all the points that use oil, etc.  Teslas have an electric drivetrain, there is no internal combustion engine, so nothing to maintain related to that.  The maintenance is essentially tires and air filters, which is the same for gasoline cars.  Your post isn't even close to being accurate.

In the previous ATH market it was Apple Co-founder (Steve Wozniak) and in this current market it was Elon. But people like Elon is an Engineer and a business man, they will only do things that will be In their favor not for the love of the technology and that's the reason why Elon stabbed Bitcoin.


Base on what I read on a certain thread on this forum, the company make lost which I don't know how it happened but make a gain through their Bitcoin investment.

What's it to you if they are still unprofitable, don't buy their stock then if you think that they are unprofitable. Also, it's not like they are rushing to make money, they still do a break even and make something more out of it and just let it be, the profit will eventually come to them.

The point of the post is to contrast "Tesla is a profitable company" with the fact that Tesla is not a profitable automaker. Tesla was profitable because they sold tax credits from the government and crypto, they lose money on the production of cars still.

Electric cars are going to destroy a lot of industry so we can see how they are still unprofitable automaker because fossil fuel, oil and conventional cars to name a few will be the most affected so they conspire to make it as hard for electric cars to take off because if it takes off, their days as giants in the industry is going to be numbered.

That unfortunately gives rise to a few questions. Can the governments afford to pour billions into Tesla. And with other automakers entering this sector, there is a chance that the tax credits will be divided up by them as well. From what I have heard, Tesla hasn't made any major technological innovation for the past 4-5 years. Their battery technology remains the same, and the affordability of their vehicles haven't improved. Everything has remained stagnant and that has opened some space for their competitors.

My point is just that accidents aren't routine maintenance or operating costs, so it's not relevant to a discussion of which car has lower operating cost. If you want to make the argument that "if you ever get in a major accident, your replacement costs are higher," that's another discussion, and one I don't even know to be true anyhow.  The forum posted in hear about Tesla owners having trouble finding places to repair their cars is over 7 years old, it's not even relevant anymore.

What billions does the government pour into Tesla?  The company is funded by debt and securities sales, just like every other capitalist enterprise.  The government doesn't own any of Tesla as a company.  Tesla has made innovations, it's just never as good as they hype.  Battery tech is incremental and not the improvements you're lead to believe with events like "Battery Day."  The affordability of the vehicles has definitely improved over time too as they've scaled.  That said, I don't believe they'll command the EV market share they have now in the future, which is why I'm not a Tesla investor.  The stock looks obviously overpriced.

Car accidents are a risk of driving a car. It can happen when you least expect it. That's why we have car insurances. You cannot ignore that car accidents don't happen. They happen every once in a while and if you are shit out of luck if you happen to be driving a tesla when you crash your car.

The information I am talking about isn't about that. It is about Tesla wanting you to use their own repair shop and no one else. As long as this information is true, it cannot get outdated.

Car accidents are not relevant to the operating costs of the car.  And no, Tesla-authorized and Tesla-owned shops are not the same thing.  There are undeniably far more Tesla-authorized repair shops today than there were 7 years ago.  The post you cited is no longer relevant, which is why you had to resort to one from 7 years ago to try and make a point.