Bitcoin Forum

One thing that remains critical to using bitcoin is energy. Energy to mine, and validate transactions. Energy to trade. And energy to access our wallets.
But is it possible, to be able to use Bitcoin even when we don't have energy?

Today, if I run out of electricity at home and want to go buy some batteries, for a flashlight, I can go to a store with some fiat coins and buy batteries. But that would not be possible if you want to make that purchase in Bitcoins. This remains a very good advantage for fiat coins.

How can Bitcoin overcome this problem?

Put a wireless charger on the payment processor or anywhere in the store. A contactless card is also being charged by the till when you put it on a scanner, it's one of the reasons you have to activate it first (I think) and definitely the reason why the more you use it, the easier it is to scan.

In Europe this is kinda already a thing if you have custom in a restaurant or a bank you could expect to use a plug if one is available. Many places also have charging areas too outside for homeless people and people on breaks from work etc.

If you have a potato or lemon farm you can do this bro: D It is necessary to take precautions earlier for such situations. Keeping some cash or storing extra battery etc. However, there is nothing to do if electricity suddenly goes out all over the world: D In such a situation, the world would be like a place of doom. What happens if electricity suddenly goes out all over the world? If you dont have any idea then you should watch this series :)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2070791/?ref_=vp_back

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/Lemon_Battery_With_LED_V2.svg/220px-Lemon_Battery_With_LED_V2.svg.png

İmage source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_battery

If the world was suddenly without electricity we'd have much bigger problems than currency.

We are still largely dependent on electrical companies. Power generation, transmission, and distribution are mostly provided by electrical grids so that when these operations are cut off, most of the houses, businesses, and other public and private establishments won't have electricity anymore. If Bitcoin were the main currency and payment system in such a scenario, commerce would also be highly disrupted.

However, in many urban centers, fuel-powered generators are always available to use whenever the main electric source is out. So business as usual. There is also a growing number of 100% off-grid business establishments and houses so Bitcoin transactions could still proceed despite power outages.

I think electric power is very dominant in all aspects, you could say that electricity is our main need at this time.
Maybe bitcoin doesn't really care about electricity, and what really needs electricity is us. Because if we lose electricity then we can't mine bitcoin or anything else. Whereas bitcoin itself doesn't matter if there is no electricity.

How can btc overcome this problem when it is regarded as digital currency,  and by digital it means something that process numbers or digits which are not represented physically like you have in fiat, which like you said is a disadvantage to using cryptocurrency as against fiat currency,
The only way I see this can be overcome is by having physical btc (if it will be possible) otherwise in a situation where there is total electricity outage there will be serious difficulties to access crypto.

-...Trust!!

- / ____
Then, I'm actually not very clear with his point, if there is no electricity (!?) Common sense tells you ... wait for him to come back !! or not?

Lithium batteries work very well and can last up to 24 hours, so cell phones work very well for transactions. In these times there are so many ways to generate energy.

For confirmations !! the distribution of nodes around the world allows this to be done 24/7/365.
________ / -

G.B.

The concern raised here is 100% valid, but the example being given is wrong. In case the electricity goes out for a few hours, we will still be able to use our laptops and mobile phones. And the internet connection will not be disrupted. Even if the electricity disruption lasts for a longer period, there are other options such as invertors and portable solar panels. And if you still insist, then we can use physical Bitcoins (such as the ones issued by Casascius many years ago).

Most of the posts assumes that the electrical outage is localized, which isn't the point of this post if I understand correctly.

The answer is not possible. If there is no electricity, then Bitcoin cannot function. The same happens if there is no way to communicate with others as the network cannot transfer information. Even if you were to use something like OpenDime or pre-signed transactions, there is no way to check it as the Blockchain cannot function. Your currency can only be something that doesn't require electricity to function and there would probably be far more serious issues to be concerned about at that point.

Err as long as the store you're going to accepts Bitcoin, I think you can still transfer funds to it even without electricity in your home (granted you have your phone with you and it's charged). If it wasn't though, then generally it isn't possible since a transaction's prerequisite is that you have a medium to use for transfer in the first place. Fiat uses hands, while crypto uses mobiles (at the minimum) I suppose. There may be other mediums, but in the end, those mediums require electricity so really without it, it isn't possible.

There are other source of energy, Sun for example can be used as a solar energy that can distribute electricity. Bitcoin definitely can not work without the energy but since there are many ways to acquire energy, then bitcoin can still work using those alternative method. Aside from the source of energy we are using right now, wind energy can also be an alternative.

So, you see. We can still mine bitcoin using those various source of energy. But then again, fiat is more accessible because of its physical existence.

Nowadays, in our generation, it is really hard to live without electricity as our lives revolve around it.

Imagine living in the dark when the night comes, imagine society without communication, do you think we can endure that?

How much more in bitcoin, it is a digital currency that only exist in the internet, It will surely fall and also I think cash will also become worthless.

Bitcoin is dependent on energy-electricity from your phone/desktop/tablet's battery where your wallet is installed which also require internet to connect the blockchain for validation that also needs energy/electricity to work.

As for your question, we will go to the argument that bitcoin is just an alternative to fiat not replacement. So the use of bitcoin can't solve that.

Exactly, pretty weird that when clearly the OP says no energy something it's just that the power grid is down and they as an individual will get a new power source. But what about the others, miners, nodes, what about the guy who would receive that transaction, how is he supposed to get power?

The clear answer is that Bitcoin can't exist without electric energy just as card payments will not.


And how can a protocol that is a bunch of code be able to acquire energy on its own?
The question was pretty simple, can bitcoin work without energy? No, it can't!
Until Bitcoin Core comes with a pack of nanobots that on install they strat building a solar panel and a wind turbine connected to your computer the whole network will still be depended on the power grid, just like every dan thing in our lives, from the coffee maker I just used to the computer I'm typing this answer.

Let us just say in a world without electricity, I think the obvious question is, what will happen to the blockchain? Is it something like a database file that can be reactivated once the main computer housing that database can be turned on after a few years of no electricity? We know that in blackouts, the internet guarantees that the information would be available anywhere in the world since some part of the world is still connected. But if the whole world is without electricity, then aside from losing the blockchain access (your wallet is safely stored in your computer), then all other aspects of the world that needs electricity will be affected as well and we will all be preparing the dark ages.

Exactly!
Perhaps the example I set was not the best.

But the point here is, that if there is a more widespread power failure (I don't even say it is global) the use of bitcoin is no longer possible.
It is common to say that the person must have a small reserve of money, along with the emergency kit, in case of a natural catastrophe. It is not possible to do this with bitcoin.
Of course, the lack of energy in such a situation is the least of our problems.

But was there any way to make bitcoin, something that can be used in a scenario where electricity is not an option? Perhaps that is impossible.
Even because it happens, with the money we have in the bank, if there is a general lack of energy.

Exactly, money is the least of our worries because our civilization just warped back in stone age condition when all of electricity around the world is shut off indefinitely, and with the first 24 hours, millions are going to die.

Bitcoin mining actually don't have to use only electricity. Renewable energy can be used and there will be no need for high electricity consumption anymore. Besides, renewable energy already started being used for mining and I hope it will cut the need for electricity completely in time.

Almost every aspect of our lives would be a problem once we get out of electricity, Electricity is very important in our lives especially in the economy and I don't think that choosing a currency to use would be the main problem once we have that kind of problem, our economy would suffer from it because for sure all of the business and companies will get closed once they don't have electricity anymore. Based on your thread, it shows that there are still a lot of things that bitcoin cant do that fiat can do for us, bitcoin still needs something to improve to be used as the standard currency in the future.

I highly agree with your statement. Instead of worrying about what will happen to BTC without electricity, it should be what will the world looks like when the world runs out of power. Without electricity, every aspect of human life is affected and It feels like you were living in a stone age where money does not really matter. It's all about survival after all.

I think it's possible to create a product with something like paper/leather/polymer that has Bitcoin private keys that's sealed by panel that can be scratched or peeled off without scratching off the keys.
You could have thousands of such papers/materials printed and distributed by trustworthy Decentralized Companies for offline buying and selling of goods and services without verification of the private keys. You can always scratch off the panel and verify the private keys when you find network/electricity, Or you can keep using the paper/material to buy and sell without scratching off the panel. Once the panel is scrated off, the paper is taken off from circulation.
This could be safer than paper fiats... afterall, you can't guarantee that the paper fiat is not counterfeit unless maybe the banks verify it.

Electricity is as crucial as the internet to Bitcoin, it’s important to know the role electricity play in Bitcoin not only miners need high electricity to confirm transactions, and even the ordinary bitcoin user needs electricity to power your device to connect to the bitcoin network.

The real question is, how can humans overcome "IF" this kind of problem occurs.
Why would we always assume to things which is almost impossible to happen.
There are still several relevant problems of Bitcoin other than the absence of electricity, because we have different type of electricity sources.

It's not just crucial in my opinion, it is the lifeline of our civilization, I stand by the words of George Carlin about electricity, when we pull the plug out of electricity, chaos will ensue and things will never be the same and we will go extinct as a species really fast.

Anybody asking the questions "How to use Paypal without electricity?" or "How to use your online banking account without electricity?" NO,but such questions arise only when it comes to Bitcoin.I wonder why... ;D
If you want to completely exclude electricity from the equation,then the only option would be to just print paper satoshis and find someone,who will accept them as payment.Good luck. ;D
The modern civilization can't exist without electricity.Maybe in the not-so-distant future,the people will produce energy from the solar panels on their roofs,so they won't rely on power plants.

For now, I don't think we can do something about it because Bitcoin is a digital currency and that means it must have energy for you to operate it so there's no way you can make a transaction with Bitcoin if you run out of electricity. That is the reason why it can never replace fiat in that way, so yeah fiat is much better to use in this kind of circumstances. Besides, I think everything will be a mess if we ran out of energy not only Bitcoin but the majority of the transaction across the world whether it is physical or virtual.

This problem regarding electricity and bitcoin's waste of energy actually could push people forward to invent any energy generator that could sustain bitcoin while at the same time we find a way for bitcoin to solve its own problem of energy inefficiency.
I know there's plenty of solutions and that's already proposed to the bitcoin community but how about mini nuclear reactor to power the mining rigs, anyone?
Maybe we need something like PoW but better in managing the energy so most of them doesn't get wasted for nothing. However I personally like the idea to incentivize miners with renewable energy.

I can't think of any way that bitcoin can be used if there is no source of energy, power bank included or any independent source of energy. So yes, we still do need cash in this scenario. Having bitcoin in your wallet is useless in this situation. But with today's situation, there will always be a source of energy unless, you are really in the remote area where you don't even know how to use solar/wind energy.

If the world is without electricity all access to communication, the economy to clean water and offices will no longer operate, even making the current economic sector worse than the Covid-19 pandemic, it is like bitcoin without electricity, all access to mining, buying and selling transactions and communication between investors, traders are all disconnected and it can result in quite a big loss, as recently what happened in Xianjiang China, due to the blackout does show a fundamental weakness even though the Bitcoin network is decentralized. But the miners didn't, and it cost the miners a loss.

I wouldn't worry about it.  For a short term emergency have some cash.  For long term you will be dead.
https://www.powermag.com/expect-death-if-pulse-event-hits-power-grid/

Electricity plays huge factor in our daily lives from household chores, work, businesses and economy. Especially now that we currently facing Covid-19 people used a lot of electricity in their home because majority work from home to economy to work. Also, in bitcoin electricity really play huge factor to it to work. Without it people can't invest and trade, mining and buying and selling. I think it's simple thing we weren't appreciate sometimes.

I think energy to use bitcoin is not a problem if ever there will be an electricity collapse. We can use a solar power to save energy in our power bank so that we can continue use our bitcoin and other digital activities. But I think it won't happen because in our generation we already used modern technology that rely on electricity, So, people will always think and find many ways to sustain the electricity even in the future generation because the development of technology continuous even in the future.

I'll give you a number o solutions:

Buy backups like power banks, ups, gasoline, diesel or natural gas generators, solar panels...
A single industrial grade UPS can provide power for your phone, internet router and lights for many days. It can even power your fridge for a day if needed.

I always have a fully charged power bank and a chargeable light source at home.

if there is a power outage for a very long time then we will not use Bitcoin and other digital currencies. all of them need electricity so that computers and other electronic devices can be used properly.
I think that if the electricity around the world is not alive anymore then cryptocurrencies will also disappear and this is probably a sign that the end of the world is very near.

This will actually work fine without needing to verify transactions online. You just download your "offline Blockchain", print loads of private keys securely at a designated location, and spend them without the internet. Then update/sync your node with the rest of the once in a while.

*Better to print the keys/coins in small Denominations

even bill gates saying crypto had impact on global warming . in some area using highest electric power bigger than any states for mining crypto it affect global warming its possible to make enviroment non eco friendly . he said bitcoin isn't environmentally friendly.4 Mar 2021  source here https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a35717144/bill-gates-bitcoin-energy-climate/

I didn't say that we would be without power forever. Of course, this was widespread chaos, and the lack of energy would affect the entire economic system.

The point here is a temporary issue of several days.

I believe that all of us at some point in our lives, when we haven't had electricity for several hours (I don't even mean poorer countries).
And even then, if they need anything, we can go to a store to buy (even if that store also lacked energy).

The point here is, is it possible that Bitcoin can be used in some way at these times?

This will probably never be possible, but it can be an interesting point of analysis.

Nice share,  I think OP has not enough time to explore asking Internet about the options that's why he make this a Big deal while the truth is there are tons of options we can use to solve His problem.

and besides most of houses now had their own Generators in readiness for a power interruptions, and even has their at least Small solar panel in their Roof for extra energy saver.

One of the most important points that bitcoin and crypto money has been criticized recently is the energy issue. They were subjected to many negative criticisms for their need to consume energy and the thought that they pollute the environment. Unfortunately, this also affects the market. I am very curious about how to overcome this problem.

That Bitcoin consumes a lot of energy, it's just theory. So, as many say that an electric car pollutes more than one combustion, as some claim.
If I take the numbers and make a comparison with other numbers of my interest, the result will be what I want.

So I don't argue whether Bitcoin uses too much or too little energy. It spends the necessary energy.

The point is that if for a moment there is a power outage in some location, bitcoin completely stops working in that location, even if it is for a few hours or days.

From the looks of it, even the media itself or in this case the crypto-based media is also betting on that proposition that Bitcoin uses too much energy. An article that I just read said that there was an estimate by the University of Cambridge, and they suggested that Bitcoin mining consumes more than 120 Terawatt Hours (Twh) per year. And that amount of electricity used in a year is like more than the electricity usage of the countries like Malaysia, Sweden or Argentina. It also said that "The report also stated that bitcoin could rank in the top 30 energy consumers if it were a country".

Source: https://www.livemint.com/market/cryptocurrency/how-does-bitcoin-mining-impact-the-environment-11620898893877.html

But that happens, because they are comparing the consumption of an economic activity, with a country. In my view it makes no sense to compare a country with an economic activity. They had to compare it with another economic activity.

Why don't they do that, for example, for car production?
But in the production of the car, it has to include the energy spent in the factory, the transport of material between factories and the transport of vehicles for sale.

This statement refers to 'Bitcoin without electricity' which means Bitcoin Offline, obviously not.
In my opinion, there is still no way if Bitcoin without electric power is Bitcoin has full access to the network using electric power.
But the problem is if you want an alternative to replace electric power, namely using solar power, wind power, hydropower and even portable electricity (power bank), it can be used temporarily.

Bitcoin will never work without electricity, due to the high demand for electricity supply then it might be one of the reasons why some are against it, however, they did not realize that bitcoin mining is not the biggest consumer of electricity and there's no study saying it is. All of these are just FUD, Elon's reason was wrong, it was not the electricity issue but other hidden agenda of his.

There are many things that can be use now as Power provider , You can have Solar Panels and you don't have to worry about other supply.

You can have your own generator at house in which you only need fuel to operate.

So i think Bitcoin can be use even without direct supply of Electricity from supplier.