Bitcoin Forum

So do the whales have the ability to dump us into a bear market on their own?

They would be able to buy cheap Bitcoin but if we're in a bear market they can't sell for huge profits (and then rinse and repeat) until the next bull run. Or is Bitcoin accumulation the be all end all for them?

Generally things like technical analysis seem to work much better in the times we're in a bull run so I doubt the whales can move much price wise and are probably trading based on technicals or not trading at all.

They may have the power to move the price somewhat but I don't think it's worth the risk to them or the effort unless they spot something in the order book that looks manipulatable (for example the larger movements that occur on weekends).

They definitely have a certain impact on the market, but only in a time where the market is ready to go down again as previous cycles suggest. There is no way they would be able to have any impact if we were on the incline of a cycle. So in a sense, their doing is only one part of the equation and therefore does not impact significantly.

Money is power, and if you have money (fiat) and enough BTC you can definitely influence the crypto market and direct it where you want. If you look at the last few days, the price ranges between $30 000 and $40 000 - and some certainly profit from that because they sell near the upper limit, break the price and then buy as close as possible to the lower limit.

When you talk about big profits, you should know that this is not about someone selling or buying 0.02 BTC or similar, but that this is also about real whales that have hundreds or thousands of BTC - so the calculation would be something like this :

- sell 100 BTC at $40 000
- buy 100 BTC at $30 000
- profit = $10 000 per 1 BTC = $1 000 000

In short, do this only once, and you still have 100 BTC and $1 million in profit minus taxes of course.

A coordinated sale where whales dump thousands of Bitcoins around the same time coupled with a series of negative events that impact the price of bitcoin can significantly hit the price. There have been various reports that big investors did just that in the recent few weeks. I usually don't pay close attention to stuff like that, but if we consider that the majority are in it for the sole goal of making as much money as possible, why wouldn't there by coordinated sell-offs? Sell at a high, wait for panic to spread for the value to drop even more, and buy back when prices drop to a point you feel comfortable to step back in.    

Manipulations are cause of flips between supports and resistances. Strong support will become resistances with manipulations. Strong resistances will be broken and become a new support with manipulations.

News help manipulations. Whales control price and they don't need price to rise 100% (x2) to double their balance. 10 times with 10 % for each when the crowd are uncertain about the market will be enough for whales.

Bitcoin market is quite leveraged, so an individual trader with deep pockets can have as much influence as a big whale if they decide to use leverage. And exchanges like Binance allow x100 leverage or even more. This is what has been happening in this bull run - many coins were traded with leverage, so when some movement started, it could go a long way due to cascading liquidations.

I don't believe whales alone can move the market. If it was so, why was the market stagnating for so many years? Why were they not pumping and dumping if they had the power to do so?

If whales are going to sell a large amount it definitely makes a big impact on the market, most traders will panic and sold their holdings thinking that something big will happen, by doing this whales can take profit with what they sold and bought the coin for a cheaper price and wait for another opportunity, it's like small traders are getting played in their hands, that's why it's very important to check and read what's going on in the market because you might lose everything if you are not careful.

This seems relatively easy, but it's a lot like gambling with huge risks involved. 24 hour volume sometimes would swallow a similar amount of Bitcoin would minimal effect. Market sentiments are what influenithe price most, if the bull is in effect, manipulations would have little effect, but in a panic season, people are more susceptible to FUDs.

In another scenario, a whale could also:
- sell 100BTC at $40,000
- the price rises to $50,000
- loss (if they buy back) = $10,000 per BTC = $1,000,000

Sometimes reading some news will make you doubt if it is really true and the sole purpose of releasing it is to create a FUD to let the market decline then buy during the dip. But with this recent decline I don't think there will be a recovery to get back to $50k it seems like the bear is coming.

Although I'm still very bullish with the market but it seems like a bear is coming since Bitcoin price gradually declining every week and I hope it won't go down below the $30k support. When that's going to happen a clear line of bear market is coming even if I am bullish I can't stop people from selling once they swayed with the FUD news.

Bears are
1) Its more of a combination. Whales (Institutional investors), market-makers (those who keep the volatility going) and media (Those that create the bad news) have a strong ability to manipulate the market. But its the panic reaction to it that actually fullfills the plan.

2) Institutional investors, those with big accounts actually adopt different strategies, it really depends. You cant say any whale is the same. There are some who keep on buy the dips and never sell. And others who manipulate markets by breaking support lines and stimulating larger sell offs. Accumulation happens in most cases at significant support zones.

They can dump as much as they can but they'll eventually buy back those sold bitcoins they've got cheaper.

That's the strategy that they do and not just because they've sold, means that we're already in the bearish market. Not that easy because it takes time before going back to the bears and they will still take advantage of it.

If those whales conspire with each other to intentionally bring the entire market down, I think they can. But the question is, are they doing that? I don't think so.

So the most that a whale could possibly do is to trigger the sell season by dumping all of his/her billions worth of Bitcoin at once in the market. That would definitely affect the price. This will cause a lot of negative speculation and rumors and FUD. As a result, the spaghetti hands would emotionally react to the sudden plunge in the price and would immediately create their own sell orders. This is going to cause more damage to the market than the initial action done by a whale.


Buying low and selling high is a thing in Bitcoin. There are others who purely HODL but there are also countless others who buy and sell and make a profit not just in terms of fiat value but also in terms of Bitcoin. That's regardless if you're a whale or a mere fingerling.

I don't think many whales treat Bitcoin accumulation as the be-all and end-all. How many whales truly believe in the future of Bitcoin as it is? How many of them are just riding the hype just to grow their wealth? How many of them are just avoiding the dying fiat without ever understanding or perhaps believing the fundamental philosophies of Bitcoin?

For bitcoin it won't work because a bitcoin whale is part of a much bigger market that has its own directions and won't change those directions if a whale dumps. For example last year there were many whales with a lot of bitcoin who were trying to dump bitcoin to crash the price below $3k but they couldn't and they lost a lot of money trying to do so.

In altcoins things are very different because they don't have bull/bear markets instead they have pump/dump periods and also an altcoin whale usually controls the whole altcoin's price and its direction. If the whale wants to pump it they can and if the whale wants to dump it to move to next shitcoin to pump they can too. That is what they do almost every day to maximize their profit too.

Everyone can buy cheap bitcoin when price has dropped unreasonable like these days. It is not a whale specific thing. And that is what the day traders of all pocket sizes have been doing from day one that bitcoin was worth below $0.01 and was listed on the first exchange.

Of course, such trading is a risk - but such people can afford it, and when we fall into the loop as is the case now - it is very easy to manipulate the market as it suits them. As with ordinary people, the power of whales is in numbers - they work in groups that pump and lower the price in a coordinated manner - just as real whales hunt in nature, always in a group and applying specific tactics for each situation.

Their luck is that most of the prey is very naive and has no defense, and even when some learn and change tactics, we always have an influx of new investors who learn from their mistakes - their loss is always someone's gain.

Newbies who use leverages will realize what they are doing, have done are stupid. They will realize it after they have loses.

They will lose many Bitcoin before the moment they recognize that Spot trading or holding will help them rich and also have more time for their lives.

Leverages consume their energy, time to watch the market, chart but the pressure is big because they will always feel fearful of liquidations.

Be fearful or not, they can not avoid liquidations.

The whales can dump and pump the market, but I do not think they can do it every day.
To dump and pump the coin will need huge money and it could not do by alone.
If many whales or some groups do that thing together, maybe that can make the market move in the direction they want.
In this bearish moment, the whales are already accumulating more bitcoin because they see a low price for bitcoin and do not want to miss this chance.

Market manipulation is beneficial when many participants are trading in the market. Market makers constantly manipulate the market so that hamsters buy cryptocurrency at a high price and sell it when the price of coins falls.
Their goal is to take your higher bitcoins from you. Therefore, the best strategy is to have an investment portfolio in the HOLD position for 10 years.

Actually, we can say that at some point whales can really manipulate the market. Considering the amount they are holding, it would make a huge influence on the price movement for sure. Even though they have the capability to do such things, surely they wouldn't do it so often. There are many people who knows how whale play games that's why there are instances wherein they are able to outsmart them. We should quickly analyze or predict when will they be dumping or pumping the market so that even though we are not as powerful and influential like them, we can still take profit from crypto.

This is surely what happened when the BTC price dipped. :)
Whales could already took the coins of those who hold their coins. It's not something new to happen here in crypto anyways so there's that.

Yes they do, think of them having this to be their bargaining chip into the markets, they ask for something and it doesn't happen then they will show us who is boss.

As much as these guys can make big moves they need the smaller traders to make their moves otherwise markets won't make their moves.

There are many whales in the crypto world. And they have their respective interests. And sometimes they also take advantage of various FUDs and FOMOs to play the market. yes, in my opinion personally, they can play with the market. Whales that have a big power to make prices go up or down can be seen from how much money is coming in or going out on the exchanges. And the victims, again, are middle to lower investors.
Of course this shouldn't happen, but for sure, they have that power and if they want it they will continue to be like that. And sometimes there is also a market war between whales, it's just a matter of waiting for who is more powerful against the market so that FUD and good news will continue to spread.

Whales can make it looks like it's bear and pull it down very low. Then if everything is on panic mode they will saw retailers keeps on selling on the market and if its over then they will start inject funds rapidly or market buys. This will consume them a lot of money but as they can lure other market to buy then they could see a good reversal and slowly will get their money again with profits.

I had no idea how much market manipulation was involved and how psychological the game really is. After this last crash I have absolutely no idea what is going to happen next so I pretty much took out all of my capital. I had to sell my best performing alts in order to offset the losses of the other ones (which stung really bad).

I might dip in again with much less capital and just play around with small moves here and there just to learn more.

Personally I don't think the bull market is over yet but risking a lot of capital is just not worth it. Now I'm thinking maybe just save most of my capital until the actual confirmed bear market and just dca on the best projects and hodl for long term investing.

 

Judging by the latest news, some whales, as usually happens, waited for the bitcoin correction, and bought bitcoin at a very good price for another $3 billion. https://bitcoindynamic.com/news/whales-take-advantage-of-sardine-desperation-and-buy-3-billion-in-bitcoin/
It's a common whale strategy to buy cheap. It is possible that they can manipulate the market in order to completely control it. By rocking the market, the whales are trying to make many traders panic and start selling, while they themselves continue to buy.

The whales has many ways to swing us into a bear market yes they can, and not only in crypto-currency, in companies those with the highest share to the company can really set the fate of that company really fast.
But I don't think the whales would use selling of their bitcoin to create a bear market, when they can continue use influences from themselves, and the news, even to the government, like recently claims going around that the Chinese government play part in the immediate bear market. The whales are
+ Patient, tolerating
+ Has the money backing.
+ Influences
+ Capitalize on bleeding market
+ Futuristic people.

Crypto market can go down on its own even when no whales are dumping their bags, if you can watch the old crypto market chart compares to date chart you will see that crypto market can only be bullish for some time only which thus open door for bear market too, it's like walking in a circle

The whales have the capability to dump the crypto market into bearish but the whales are not the major player of this current market so it will difficult for a single whale cannot manipulate the market price but if two or more whales come together, they can manipulate the market price.

Do you mean the big institutions are the major players? It feels like retail is just along for the ride and are at the mercy of the institutions and whales.

All the analysis in the world (both technical and fundamental) doesn't seem to matter at all as long as the big players are in control. As a retail investor it honestly seems like market direction is a coin flip (especially now).

I entered the market this year and gradually put in more and more money to the point where it made me uncomfortable, so I sold with some profit after the recent crash and slight recovery. I'll regret if the market pumps from here but the risk was too great to handle another dump.

It seems to me that the "safest" way to invest is to gradually accumulate in the bear market years and then gradually sell during the bull market, while keeping the most promising bags for the long long term. I just got into crypto too late to build a proper foundation that could handle the volatility. But the lessons I've learned have been valuable. I bought back in at the last mini dip for a fraction of what I had invested before. Will suck if we just go up from here but the stress is palatable now. Just have to learn the right way to invest now.

I agree, there's no need for the approval of the whales to send the market down to bearish. There really is the season when the market should become bearish and bullish. During the early days, there's probably a little influence from them and it's likely the market is working on its own. I believe today that it is still working on its own but with a huge contribution by the whales already. To sum up, while the market can definitely walk on its own, the whales can at least give that motion where it should head.

Absolutely, institution and some private companies are the major investors since last year bullish market start. There is a tweet provider by a social media influence that contain the rank of crypto major holder in this current market. It sad I was unable to find the tweet link.

 
and it hard to tell when the market correction/blood bath will happen this year this is the reason why i advice people to seize the market opportunities, sell half of their investment cause the market next trend is not certain.


There's no need to regret cause market blood bath is still coming and I'm scared this current market trend could the step into the bloodbath.


Yes, this is the perfect strategy for retailer investors whos not into day trading.


You are never late to get into crypto if you have the require knowledge and understand how to choose the best investment before the public accumulation.

They may have that kind of power to make the market dump or pump. And it makes sense.
Most whales commonly have had BTC from the very low rate and they are still holding at this moment. And the whales will have so many BTC.
And if they are want to make dump the price in order to buy it in dip, they can do it because they can sell the BTC amount that he bought when in $10k maybe and selling them in $30k.They have earned so many profits, isn't it? So, this makes sense. Moreover, if it is supported with the FUD spreading from the bad news, the whales can really control and play the market so easily.
However, there are also many whales in the crypto world. And maybe, they also don't have similar thought to dump the market. Probably, they will also like to fight to make the market dump or pump. And once more, whatever happens, the small traders or investors always become the victims.

Yes they do, he who has the money control the market, when there's fud the whales take advantage of this and manipulate the market, you as a retail investors that want to cut losses or secure profit panic and fall right into their traps. They make the market declines as the selling pressure become more dominant in the market.

Initially if there's no huge selling ongoing the market wouldn't reaction as much as it does when there's any small negative news regarding the industry. And for your concern on how they sell if the market is declining, are you forgetting we're in a very active market, one that never closes.

Actually their sale decline the market and we havee retail investors seeing every dump as an opportunity to come into the market, these are those they sell their coins to on the market and also already existing investors wanting to accumulate more.