Bitcoin Forum

If you think that some dystopian future like one described in 1984 novel by George Orwell is impossible, just look what happened in last few years
and how we easily gave up on our human rights because of fear from invisible threat presented by main stream media.
Anyone who is still thinking that dictators and mad scientists ever cared about people is up for a rude awakening.

Humans living in world today can see that governments and rulers are turning more into dictators that remove all liberties, privacy and freedom from citizens,
they are cooking us slowly like frogs and if this continues with obedient people we are going to face dark dystopian future.
Remember that Germans after WWII said how they just followed orders from superiors and doing their jobs, meaning they didn't think and use their head at all.
People who ended up dead in concentration camps also just followed the orders from their captives, with only few individuals rebelling.

Coming back to present day, do you think this newage dictators will allow regular people who are inside the system to use Bitcoin in some dystopian future?

Central banks who are openly against Bitcoin allowed us to play so far, so we get used to using not one but many virtual coins, but we know they are creating their own central bank currencies that would be directly against BTC.
There is no need for them to directly ban Bitcoin, but they can ban it on centralized exchanges and with absence of cash it will be much harder for P2P trading to exist and everything will be tracked.

I could see a future of society being split in two groups, one who will accept this modern slavery and obey everything clowns say on tv, live in so called smart cities like some obedient trans-humans who don't think at all.
Other group who love freedom more will live outside the system, and they will not be allowed to buy or sell anything without using big brother CBDC currency, but they could still use Bitcoin and other assets for trading.

It's your choice really...

https://i.imgur.com/Z6PPMFu.jpg     or     https://i.imgur.com/a5UBUPY.jpg

I do not think the presence of CBDCs would much affect P2P platforms. The objective of those platforms is to send fiat and digital assets around without the need of a trusted middle man;

• I initiate a trade to sell xxxBTC,
• A buyer accepts my terms and send xxx$ to me,
• My BTC is sent to the person.

In all these processes (which most times involve bank transfers) the purpose of the trade is not known. To the bank Mr Joe simply sent some bucks to Mr Jerry, and it can function the same way using CBDCs, the movement can be tracked, but the purpose of the transfer is not public, except more stringent regulations is effected.

A privacy war is definitely likely as adoption for 'crypto' assets grow, further threatening the control of governments, and you're right that it's up to the Bitcoin community to decide if to shift more to centralization or not.

I'd like to think as simple as that Bitcoin is existed it is blissful gratitude. Bitcoin provides us the "tools" for freedom and privacy, it's up to their community -- us, to maximize it.

When we talk about societies I believe it's a complex situation. But my take is, We need to make the technologies mature. It is indeed that Bitcoin already gained traction from the mainstream but we need to increase the adoption too. The community should help and develop the Bitcoin ease of use, the easiness of self-custody, the security and privacy standard to make bitcoin reach its full potential possibility yet doesn't sacrifice bad UX.

As I know and I assume based on my personal observation that people tend to choose an easy but wrong way rather than the hard but the correct one. Also, people already get used to their habitual fiat currencies nature. Consequently, it's one of the hell deeds for the community to spread awareness about the potential of Bitcoin. And how to break their habit in order to claim their own freedom and privacy.

About government intervention, as you said, it's up to our choices. Whether we take the red pill or the blue one. Whether we prefer a harsh truth or a pleasant lie. I believe the more people "awoke" and stand for their rights the governments will soften. The point is we need to become a "few rebelling individuals" that shed a light to others.

It's more than just having no cryptocurrencies, that's a shame to be called a dystopia if that's the only reason. Dystopia should include, heavy censorship, corporate fascism, mass surveillance and no respect for human rights. Just observe your surroundings, aren't we already in a dystopian future.

We already have "dystopian future" in countries like China, and China is indeed hostile towards Bitcoin, but they still haven't fully banned it. Why? No one knows, perhaps they might want to have an option to use it in the future, or maybe they think enforcing a full ban is not worth it, or maybe they just don't care because Bitcoin adoption is still very-very low.

Look at the social credit system that they have developed. You do good things for the state and the state will reward you. You do bad things or even the most basic of screw ups and you will be denied some "priveleges" that we can basically do normally in our own countries. The so called dystopian future is not the future that we can think of but rather something that we need to avoid happening our respective countries. And I think bitcoin should be an instrument of that prevention.

I wouldn't like the idea of living, and I don't have any privacy anymore. It's important to know that I should control and know when and where I would be sharing the sensitive information I have. So definitely, I wouldn't choose slavery. For sure, I would be in favor of the freedom that we all should have and not be oppressed by centralized powers and strong-arming us into submission.

This topic is fun to think about, but I don't think we will ever reach that state in our lifetime.

Can it be both? Seriously, it seems to me that when we talk about how history worked, it was never so black and white. Some people were living a dystopian nightmare and some were living their best lives. If we exclude extrinsic factors or extreme scenarios that would make everyone be in the same shit of a situation, I think it will just be a combination of both, depending on the field of interest. Maybe you will own nothing physical but have a bunch of valuable crypto, or you will have the freedom of information but at the same time the possibility of that information being manipulated.

Dictatorship has been around since ages and it won't stop any time soon. We must know what is good for us and only proper education can get us that knowledge.
Freedom should always be our choice but we should also know how to find loop holes in the system to use them for our benefits.
CBDC(Central Bank Digital Currency) can be a good because it will eventually promote cryptocurrencies.
Once the majority population adopts cryptocurrencies they will educate themselves about it and will know decentralized cryptocurrencies are their way to freedom.

Because they are also using it and having a total ban would be hypocritical of them and we all know that China cares like a narcissist in terms of their image so they want to balance it to the point that they still have control and at the same still look good.

I think there already are two groups out there. Exactly the ones you mentioned, in fact.

If you saw any futuristic movie, you'd find out that it is mostly shown that the rich and the politically-exposed people are using technology that is banned for the regular people, although there is a group of rebels using it as well behind the curtains. Bitcoin does exactly that.. we're already living the future and it's not fun at all.

I'd bet you anything over 10% of the world's politicians are using Bitcoin or Monero as a way to hide wealth and assets. They're banning it because they hate the idea of us using it, not the idea of them using it themselves! But people seem to always take the bait and fall into their lies. Crimes here, crimes there. Everyone shouting out at Bitcoin and Monero for illicit activity yet nobody comes up with real proof. And by proof, I don't mean statistics...

The digital, modern slavery is right in front of our eyes. We're living it right now! We've lost our right to privacy long time ago, but it's just now that some (very few) people are only starting to realize.

I feel like we're gonna be the rebels..  and not the "good guys"..

There are many who say they're the best. They're the one who is running the game. Many believe this in their heart or mind. Who aren't willing to invest much time or energy into making it a reality.

Then there are people who actually do spend 23.9 hours a day, 7 days a week trying to run everything. Their lifestyle revolves around pulling strings and making power plays to influence public opinion. They move people the way that shepherds herd flocks of sheep.

I don't really have a problem with the rich and powerful seeking to rewrite society and civilization in their own image. They're simply doing the same things rich and wealthy have done throughout history. A person can look back at history 2,000 years ago. 200,000 years ago. And see demographics of people doing the same things today that they did milennia ago.

The only things that make today's history relevant are technology and science having progressed. The destruction of communities and family units who no longer communicate, cooperate, educate/inform themselves or remain united. And the human population expanding to a point where it causes mass species extinctions, climate change and other negative effects.

Those behind dystopian movements are following the same trends their demographic has followed throughout history. Where things have gone wrong is everyone else outside the dystopian movement failing to care about their own self interests. A sense of entitlement in believing that making bad decisions and failing to be politically or economically literate is entirely unrelated to losing rights and freedoms. Is something we all may wind up paying a hefty price for.

China banned Bitcoin many times but they can allow people to play more with Bitcoin until they fully release their own CBDC for everyone so everything else will not be legal.
Many other countries are way more dystopian now than China, just look examples of Canada with their prime minister Justin Trudeau who openly admires Chinese system and dictators.

It's not the same if you are using those P2P websites for trading in person with cash and if you are using them for trading bitcoin with some other digital government tracking currency.
I don't see any point of using Bitcoin in that case.

Canada and other countries are also preparing their own clones of Chinese social rating system, and anyone can find those document openly available because they are not even hiding it anymore.
European Union just announced they are releasing some digital wallet in Wednesday for all citizens to be able to all access private and public services with a single online ID.
Wake the f up people until it's too late.

I think that you are exaggerating a little bit. ;D
The human civilization is moving from ages of liberty to ages of more government control,and from ages of government control back to a time when liberty dominates.
The eastern European countries lived 45 years under totalitarian regimes.After that,they embraced liberty and democracy.The western countries had a "welfare state" and "big governments" before Reagan and Thatcher.
Bitcoin cannot be used as a "currency of the oppressed",because it's not anonymous and it is pretty easy to get tracked(unless you are using a trusted Bitcoin mixer service).
If a dystopian regime begins oppressing the people,many will rise up and lead the rebellion.Simply using Bitcoin isn't enough to destroy a dystopian regime.We would need a revolution.

Please remind me if you can when exactly we had those ages of liberty, maybe during WWII, WWI, middle ages, maybe in time of Roman invasion...
I would say you live in some parallel universe or you don't know history at all, and If you think I am exaggerating just observe what is happening in the world now, wait and see what happens in next few years.

Bitcoin can still be traded with cash or for purchasing/selling stuff directly in person, so nobody can really can really track you and that can be done despite the fact that Bitcoin not having anonymous addresses or transactions.

Well, if the people stops voting for the incompetent politicians, there will be a high possibility that we will land on a dystopian future, I think that with the news that I am reading, I think that we are already in a dystopian future.

We're only moving from more to less control, but liberty never dominated although we like to lie about it. Our today's regime was supposed to give us freedom, and it does. Only a superficial one. The more digitalized we go, the more controlled our lives will be.. and this process started a very long time ago, at least a few decades!

I've never felt free. The larger percentage of the population lives under wage slavery and almost everything we do today is under surveillance. The fact that a lot of people prefer to ignore their surroundings and call this "freedom" is in no way the real, legit definition of "liberty". Nowadays, seeking liberty means suspicion and further control/surveillance..

Well, your write-up here is quite interesting to read, but I don't believe that is going to happen. Yes, the government will create their own central bank digital currencies, but they are not going to be getting rid of cash. And let's assume that they will get rid of cash and people are trading with CBDC. Do you think that's going to have any effect on truly decentralized cryptocurrencies and P2P/decentralized exchanges? Then you're totally wrong.

When it comes to DEX/P2P, you can send and accept whatever you want and still maintain your identity, so this does not affect these platforms. If the government can stop anything that has to do with crypto, they can't do more than they are doing now; banning centralized exchanges, because they only have controls over those.

But, looking at how far these CEX's have gotten, it wouldn't be in their interest to ban them (though some of these government officials can be really crazy at times). And lastly, they won't stop cash, we are still going to have the current monetary system. That's all I can say for now.

Only bitcoin will be the king after a decade.Because after a decade now,no coin had a potential to take the part of bitcoin.You can check the same on the internet.After some years of bitcoin,Ethereum was get into the market.But it won't take the place of bitcoin.So the future also move forward with the bitcoin.The demand of bitcoin also their in future.

... those who were in the concentration camp did not reveal themselves; rebellions have their consequences but above all they have weapons ...

And the previous point is worth as a priority, that of the "" weapons "" in the case of bitcoin that technology and intellectuals are needed to take bitcoin to the future that we want.

The excuse is always governments, politicians, etc. But where are the ordinary people, who cannot come to terms with that other group of citizens who, due to living conditions and personal achievements, have managed to make great fortunes and who feel tied to old bureaucratic mechanisms that also affect them or at least if they don't care about being in the old system, where their "intellectuality" is, allowing themselves to be a liberator and take the lead.

So, we are in an unequal world, but the situation worsens because a group of individuals who even never had anything and manage to have great fortunes and power are allied with traditional schemes.

It is difficult for us to agree with those of us who are interested in making a change, the technological and intellectual "weapons" exist, we are the dysfunctional ones ourselves.

It makes no sense that governments and central banks make their own centralized coins if they want to keep cash, and we have examples of Sweden and China who are already testing this big time and they are almost not using anymore cash even today.

They are eliminating P2P exchange with physical cash so you have one option less, and using their digital wallets will be much worse than using bank accounts today.
If I want to exchange my Bitcoin for cash I can do it today and there will be no trace how I spend my cash.

Wake up and read their official documents with full plans to make this a reality and don't just speak from your head.
If they have plans to go cashless with full tracking and people say nothing and don't complain then it will happen sooner than you expect it.