Bitcoin Forum

What would happen if Bitcoin was NOT such an easy target. People often operate as superficial difference engines. They see the obvious  and whats directly in front of them. Bitcoin offers up low hanging fruit for people to attack Bitcoin imperfections. What would happen if Bitcoin plunged the holes in the leaky ship? Seems every time Bitcoin gains ground. The same old derogatory talking points emerge  “Energy consumption” , “Scalability” and “Slow” sends it backwards. What if Elon couldn’t say anything about Bitcoin power consumption cause there was NO massive energy consumption. The Bitcoin community often will defend the shortcomings of Bitcoin by rationalizing the flaws as a NEEDED or an acceptability causality. This is called Confirmation bias. We have heard the most amazing arguments in pursuit of justifying Bitcoins shortcomings. Imagine if we didn’t have to work so hard to defend Bitcoin.

Confirmation bias: is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values. People display this bias when they select information that supports their views, ignoring contrary information, or when they interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing attitudes. The effect is strongest for desired outcomes, for emotionally charged issues, and for deeply entrenched beliefs.

We all love Bitcoin but what if we didn’t have to continually make excuses for it. Imagine what Bitcoin would be without its deficiency's. We have all had that battle at family functions arguing the No-Coiner in the family. We have to fight twice as hard to prove our point because like it or not Bitcoin is an easy target. Lets be honest. The No-Coiner in the family is not very bright but why does it always appear they win the argument?  They have easy to understand talking points that are generally agreed upon flaws. Bitcoin faults are a no-brainer  to jump on the bandwagon of “Bitcoin is bad”


What if we could go to our next family function and know Bitcoin has NO shortcomings. Look the No-Coiner in the face and ask. Why don’t you like Bitcoin again? Take away Bitcoins obvious blemishes  and it is flawless.

power consumption:
since 2014 mining farms set out purposefully to house their farms in area's of renewable. not just for electric power deal discounts but for many other reasons
many people stupidly quote 2021's consumption at over 120tw/y but this is using silly assumptions that the entire network is run using 2019 s9 hardware...

so attacking the power consumption assumption is easy.

the issue of the false 'power consumption assumption' is not that its just wrong. its that its wrong and yet so many people have been pushed into believing it.

the hardest task is going person to person to rectify the error of their now formed opinion
a formed opinion is harder to rectify once formed. even if the evidence is available to debunk it


the bad assumption:
140exahash all day every day all year
s9 asics at 14thash and 1.4kwh
=127tw/y

the rebuttle:
funny part is that bitcoin never stays at 140exa hash all year..
for the last year its been an increment from 100exa this time last year
so thats a ~ 20-40% error

also s19pro asics at 110th and 3.25kwh presents as being
30w/th
where as s9 asic at 14th and 1.4kwh presents as being
100w/th
so thats a upto 300% error rate

actual estimates by looking at some pools 'workers' and understanding the ratio of asics used. and doing daily math of actual hashpower used puts bitcoin at more likely a 40tw/y utility

and yes china electric consumption of all industries and citizens is 7500. meaning if all internation bitcoin miners were in china. thats not even 1% of china's capacity.

Nothing in the world is perfect and useful I every situation. Everything has pros and cons, and sometimes bitcoin isnt going yo be the solution for every problem in the world.

Bitcoin isn't wasting energy. The bigger the  bitcoin energy consumption,  the more secure and resistant the network is against an attack.

Think about PoW and a PoS, but you are not staking coins (something from within the system), but staking energy. It is more secure, more stable. Energy will forever have value in the world we know, this is way the network is safe and an attack will always be nearly impossible.

---

Bitcoin isn't hard to defend. It is hard to understand. And maybe you don't need it, and you can just stick to visa most of your life.

Bitcoin was not invented to make newbies rich,  neither to make everyone buy a coffee with a zEro fee instant transaction. You can use vida for that.

Bitcoin was invented so you could make permitionless transactions, in a currency no central bank can print out to give to banks going bailout. It was invented to be an alternative to make people from developing counties rum away from inflation.

I can gladly pay 1 usd and wait 30 minutes to send any amount of money anywhere in the world using bitcoin. It is not expensive,  neither slow.

I'm more interested in what would happen if people actually took some time to understand why things work the way they do before they suggested ways they could (supposedly) be "improved".  Isn't it funny how none of these people have ever succeeded in building this vastly superior version of Bitcoin they keep talking about?   ::)

The simple fact is, every last one of you deluded, ignorant fools who think you somehow know better:  You don't have a viable alternative.  You have a wishlist.  Things that you would like to have.  But the thing is, you can't have them, because you don't understand the costs involved.  So you keep telling us what the problems (again, supposedly) are.  Because it's all you're capable of.  Just stop wasting your time and ours with your mindless babbling.  You know absolutely nothing.

Quite possibly the only valid thing you have raised is the absurdity of trying to argue with closed-minded nocoiners.  That's usually a complete waste of time and effort. 

Personally, I have been able to shut down any attempts at Bitcoin bashing. At least with the people I have interacted with.

The trick is the bring up value. What is value? Why do we value gold? How did this start?

You have to show them the roots of what value really is to get them to understand. We are ASSIGNING Bitcoin the kind of value that we assign on gold. We treat it the same. We hold onto it in the same way.

The Lack of ZERO Acknowledgment that bitcoin has deficiency's just shows Confirmation bias is strong on this thread. The ability to NOT  see both sides of the argument is a symptom of  Confirmation bias. The Road to a stronger Bitcoin is to admit the shortcomings. Currently most are to wrapped up in their own self interest to improve upon Bitcoin. The Acknowledgment Bitcoin is flawed and fixing it could improve every single Bitcoin users self interest. Would require everyone admit the flaws. Most are incapable of admitting negative narratives that involve their own arrived upon thought constructs. Doomed to cycle through repeated failure. Break the cycle. Fix Bitcoin

Wait, who's saying that Bitcoin literally has zero problems/flaws though?

Everyone's totally aware that Bitcoin uses a lot of electricity. because, well, it's useful! So it's totally worth the electricity, Bitcoin mining mostly using renewables aside.

Everyone's also totally aware that Bitcoin's transaction speed is a problem. Hence why developers are working on layer-2 solutions to hopefully make Lightning the de-facto solution for this problem, so people can transact with speed without actually sacrificing any security and decentralization on the main chain.

But seriously, I'd like to see your attempt into "FiXiNg BiTcOiN".

I'm actually disappointed that you would resort to keep on with your "confirmation bias" angle instead of responding to the arguments from the previous comments. Do you understand why it takes 10 minutes on average to confirm a block and its importance? True Coiners get that and that's probably why they're not bothered with whatever old issues thrown at Bitcoin. Some would call this a trade-off since you cannot have a perfect system (see comment of mk4 in bold letters).

Exactly,  that's useful!!!

Because new and better things uses more energy than their predecessors.

Bitcoin uses more money than cash bitcoin.
Cars uses more energy than chariots. Let's use chariots again?

Old cell phones uses more energy than smartphones. Let's go back to old cells phones. Actually, let's send our mails using birds, because they are more eco friendly than computers, that use energy.

We have to work hard for it because the counterattacks are mostly blocks of disinformation spread around by massive influences such as billionaires or top corps/banks. Had there been no intention to push away people from BTC, there would've been no reason to look for "defense"..

there are some people with confirmation bias on both sides

some people are bias and OVER promote bitcoin to the point of fantasy.
some people are bias and demote bitcoin to the point of ignorance

some people are bias towards an altcoin/altnet. so promote their tokenised crap as being the best, while demoting bitcoin.

heck there are even people that pretend to be bitcoin fans. but then promote side networks and alt networks that dont even have a blockchain.

and even after 4+ years of their altnets not really working.. they will continue their confirmation bias that their network is the best thing.

.. the trick is.. while you cannot change their minds.. whenever they promote their fantasy story. you have to correct them. not for their benefit. but for their readers benefit so that their readers dont get recruited into the fantasy

basically stop the infection of confirmation bias spreading

It totally riles me up good if people say Bitcoin is a waste of electricity but yet they spend all day watching Netflix or playing on their gaming consoles. They say Bitcoin's energy usage is wasteful even if it gives financial freedom to a lot of people but yet the energy use of their entertainment devices are totally fine. Like, it's so stupid.

people who hate bitcoin always find fault, always post negative things about bitcoin, they say bitcoin is energy-intensive, not environmentally friendly, over-mining, etc., but they don't realize and don't want to admit that they themselves use a lot of energy , and pollutes the air, makes something that damages the environment, they always blame bitcoin and keep looking for ways to reduce bitcoin,, this is the digital era so we have to make money even through digital, now it's no longer time to send letters using bird intermediaries

This is something we have to face and deal with. Bitcoin is another invention of man, so we can never expect it to be perfect, but we can say it is way, way better compared to the fiat money administered by central banks under the power of the governments. There will always be imperfections but compared to the traditional money and banking system, there is no comparison, actually. Critics can find anything that they think is not good and well that is their job to do. Living in a democratic world, we are always rejoicing with the freedom of speech and that is why we can't do with people who are not on our side...let them say and do what they think is good on their eyesight and the same right is also accorded to all of us.

Exactly, that's why anytime this happens, we just do the thing that we should have done a long time ago about it, we should've ignored these people that doesn't have anything good to say about bitcoin. Ironic how they call themselves nocoiner because we will all be taking the last laugh.

Does it really matter? So far all the thousands of FUD they have been feeding people done was to slow down the adoption but they can never prevent it. The benefits and the potential of bitcoin is not something you can bury under a lot of FUD, you can hide it from some idiots for some time until they too realize the lies they have been fed all these years.
So I say let them spread their FUD all they want, that keeps them into a false dream of having prevented bitcoin from growing while we gain more time to accumulate bitcoin at cheaper prices.

When a mans salary is dependent upon his blindness, never expect him to see.


Been this way forever, nada going to change.

Besides, how do you tell a hairlip or a moron he's defective, when in fact like the confirmation bias on this site shows all are hairlip, all are moron, the sub 2-digit IQ rules this forum. Why would you expect the moron to ever see the light?

I would even go farther to suggest everything on this site is just bots, generated for favorable bitcoin sentiment.

The only time active management engages this site, is when btc goes into a price free-fall, but at time like this where btc just bounces day to day in a zone, they pretty much off gloves.

The only time I ever get banned is when I post "BTC down 90% capitalization in month"

Even simple 2+2=4 arguments can't be made on this site, even the technical site, is same-same, all are morons, every once in awhile they'll send out a 'clever bot' with 'legendary status' to say something, then all the other bots change direction.  But in general this site is a hamster wheel, and whatever you do or say, come back tomorrow and it will be the same-same bile being regurgitated, like HODL or FUD.


...

Here's the problem the entire BTC narrative is based on 100% lies, ... so its endless defense; Because in order to keep the system running, you must have new bots daily flush out the arguments against the lies, you must make the good people tired and just go away, and then of course you must feed&nurture the morons to HODL.

The funniest thing of all is that almost all this is owned by China, but they can't be blamed because this site refuses to even discuss China.

People will always find fault on everything. There's just no flawless technology. It's not even a matter of faults because Bitcoin people are already proving that these "flaws" are irrelevant. It's just that haters just want to bash Bitcoin because they wanted to, for a reason.

Ah, this argument LOL. If you're referring to people who are using signature campaigns, you do realize that everyone could just sell the crypto they're receving as payment every time they receive their weekly/bi-weekly/monthly payments right? Being against bitcoin wouldn't really harm them at all.

I'm not saying Bitcoin can't be improved.  I'm saying you totally lack the awareness and competence to judge what form those improvements might take.  Spend several years without saying stupid shit, take the time to actually learn something.  Then, one day, you might have something that resembles an informed opinion. Until then, your opinions are meaningless.

You are the inbred, degenerate who keeps making alt-accounts to spill verbal diarrhea about how this forum is stupid or that Bitcoin is defective.

LOL. You keep arguing how much you hate the forum yet keep coming back despite bans. Stop obsessing with this forum. There are plenty other things to do than argue endlessly with people who don't want to listen to you because your arguments are crap.

Take the pills regularly. The forum wouldn't feel so "same-same" then, neither will China feel like it controls everything. Your China arguments have zero merit and are filled with baseless assumptions.

Bitcoin doesn't need your love. if you think you have to make "excuses" about Bitcoin, that is because you don't understand the need for PoW as well as the importance of decentralization. You maybe buying into the vaporware arguments about how they have "solved" scaling by delegating block-creation to validator nodes run by exchanges/ foundations/ corporations.

Without even proposing anything, you are talking about confirmation bias. Question your own assumptions. This forum is very open to discussion. Its just that people get tired of re-hashing the same arguments with morons blinded by their DeFi gains and trying to think that any of that can exist without a foundational, decentralized money that only Bitcoin is.

If you want to discuss any of the magical cures and their benefits vis-a-vis PoW, you are welcome to this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5337995.0). If you have nothing to discuss except pontificate to the community about it being close-minded, then sorry to say but you are just being another concern-troll.

You have made a fan of out of some of our team members. Your response was the highlight of a morning meeting. You have brought up a enlightening thought construct  in terms of thinking about digital carbon footprints . kudos to you. Your concepts on “ spend all day watching Netflix or playing on their gaming consoles” . This is a very compelling argument. People often discount the energy consumption of entertainment mechanisms. Your point is very well received . Thank you for bringing up this point.  At first glance into the statistics of gaming console energy usage globally is staggering but you never really hear this. People simply must be entertained no matter the carbon footprint.

Who said bitcoin was perfect? Everyone is aware of the flaws that bitcoin currently has. And everyone believes that we will come up with a solution that will help us solve the underlying drawbacks without altering the main protocol and security of bitcoin. Nothing is perfect. Literally everything in the world has a problem or two. People will keep on defending what they believe. It's a good thing, isn't it? It shows how strong the community is and how much people believe in it. The only ones that shit talks about bitcoins are the ones that doesn't really understand what it is and how it works. And then there are those people that tend to trash talk about bitcoin because they want to promote their own project, which isn't a good way to do so.

Not without introducing new problems, you illiterate numpty.  Again, you don't understand the costs and the trade-offs involved.  Optimisations are still being made where possible, but beyond that, most other changes come with a price attached.  You either choose to sacrifice one area to gain in another, or you abandon a primary objective.     



So it's a conspiracy, then?  They could choose to make it better, but they aren't doing that for reasons you can't explain.  Yeah, sounds legit.    ::)

You and your shitcoin are a joke.  Troll harder.

We are done with you. The utility you have provided has come to an end. Thank you for your participation.

Nocoiner speaks itself. Simply having no coin. If there are so many things to fix, why do they have to dip their toes into Bitcoin if it has so many flaws?
Like your BTC ECO, Bitcoin has its own consensus so whatever is agreed upon, they could do it without Bitcoin council otherwise another fork will happen and enjoy free money of the forks.

that's the fact but sometimes people really want to push what they saw in the internet such negative news and fuds even though they're lack of information, especially about the circumstances of crypto market, suddenly they all came up and making false information.. Lol
For me no need to defend what others saying about the bitcoin maybe it just for us not for them..  Indeed who cares if they don't like it? As long as it always make us happy and can guarantee huge profits it will always good ..  ;)

That's the saddest thing about it, they have no coins and they want other people to abandon bitcoin too so they have someone to share their misery of being a nocoiner.