Bitcoin Forum

If the IMF had a choice between a world with no Bitcoin and a world with Bitcoin, I think it's fair to say they want Bitcoin gone.

IMF gives grants to small countries.

What will cripple Bitcoin more than Tesla announcing they will accept Bitcoin and then later revoking it? A country such as El Salvador announcing they will accept Bitcoin as legal tender and then later revoking it and claiming it didn't work out.

If we put one and one together, is it possible that IMF promised to increase grants to El Salvador if they accept and later revoke Bitcoin, in an attempt to de-legitimise Bitcoin?

This is you @OP being very speculative to see a side to the story that nobody is yet considering but this is most likely not to be the story for El-Salvador.  I don't believe or want to believe that this is some conspiracy of some sort aimed at ridiculing bitcoin more and more from where Elon left of. What I see in El-Salvador's decision to make bitcoin a legal tender is genue and legit.
For sure, there have to be a first to bring this break through to the world. From where it is now, it has not being passed into law and made it binding with the 90days period on it but then, it will and it would be grate. El-Salvador would open the world to bitcoin and with them as a lab rat at the moment, we can only hope for more adoption.

Bitcoin is a treat to nation's economy. If IMF had the opportunity to ban cryto completely the would have done that a long time a go. El Salvador Has already created a history as they are the first country to accept Bitcoin as legal tender with President Nayib Bukele touting the cryptocurrency’s full ability as a remittance alternative of legal tender for Salvadorans. Stating clearly through its finance minister Alejandro Zelaya that it's not abondoning US dollar but adopting crypto as well. Will this cause a boast in Bitcoin price this I patiently wait for

El Salvador or like any other country doesn't even need Bitcoin to be a legal tender to be used. There was just news I've read that there is a high official who opposes the law but I don't think it matters anymore to the people of El Salvador because it looks like they are using BTC long before this talk about being legal tender.


The IMF can still ban crypto completely, they could try that to see the outcome. But this is sort of a sanction again to the smaller countries which had been done many times.

Why wiuld the IMF publicly disclose such an offer anyway? Also, there’s nothing to be gained on their end even if bitcoin is to disappear tomorrow. Pretty sure they would still give grants and loans to countries that needed it the most, given that these countries would be forced to pay anyway to settle the debt. The IMF doesn’t need extra persuasion from their end to a country to stop using bitcoin. It’s entirely on the country’s discretion to stop these things, not the IMF’s. Also, there are still lots of sources to ask financial aid from, so even if the said organization blackmailed El Salvador, the country would just expose the deal and look for help somewhere else.

I believe, that's only a speculative theory of the OP. It doesn't mean that the situation will or about to happen. We will see in the next coming months or years how El Salvador is performing in terms of their acceptance of bitcoin as legal tender. Because if they are successful or at least improve some aspects, other countries will follow their steps. Because if it has negative impact to their system, it will always show. They can't hide such influence.

^@OP i think you are delusional, you should immediately go to a psychiatrist....don't you think el Salvador is the same as Elon musk who thinks bitcoin is a joke, El Salvador has officially announced to the world making bitcoin a legal tender there so the IMF can't even change their decision.

I thought this is another news. LOL  ::)

That won't happen. They won't waste their time revoking that they've made a law just recently. That's a wishful thinking of yours but you'll see that they'll be happy to add some more incentives as they attract more investors and companies going to their country.

They're probably thinking of making El Salvador as a crypto haven.

Well its possible that El Salvador might some day change their tune, but not likely because of pressures from IMF. Every nation is sovereign, if every country that will accept bitcoin a legal tender and then IMF entering into the picture to disrupt them, then what do you think will happen globally? El Salvador will have to prioritise their country, unless they wanted to be a slave on this fiat global body.

I was really shocked when I saw the subject name. Fortunately, there is no such thing. Because this is a really serious action. El Salvador can't go back from this that easy now. And it shouldn't try also. It should determine the pros and cons after using Bitcoin like this for some time. Then, it can do whatever it wants with Bitcoin.

You used the words I highlighted in blue leading one to ask: the source(s) of your information that led you to pondering this scenario is?....

The benefits to El Salvador will be many times greater by having a non fiat option there any enticement to revoke IMHO.  Countries have historically basked in the light of a strong currency, it is only in recent times that all countries that are manufacturing based are in a race to the bottom with their fiat's.  So I don't see an outlier like El Salvador as having much incentive to revoke anything.

There is also that possibility that the next elected El Salvador president will vetoed it and revoke Bitcoin as legal tender in their country. However, if there are incentives and benefits from the government and their people then why revoke it? Just because an organization that facilitate help to countries in terms of loans (with high interest) telling them to repeal Bitcoin? that argument doesn't make any sense.

I thought the same too  ;D

I also agree with you that I believe that the President of El Savaldo will try everything he can to make this work since it is all the assistance requested from the World Bank before that was not fulfilled and is still not granted the Nation that has made the President take this turn.

I believe that El Salvado being a crypto Heaven is sure if everything falls in place which I believe it will, it's just a matter of time because the Government is committed.   

IMF will make their offer more attractive so the government of El Salvador is going to do the revoke of legal tender status of bitcoin, but I don't think that we have to worry too much about it because IMF will have to be at a disadvantage if they want to make the offer attractive.

Remember when Greece went in to financial ruin a few years back and the global markets panicked...for like a whole 2-3 days? It ended up not being a big deal at all when people realized it's a tiny country without much influence on the world markets.  Even if El Salvador doesn't end up making btc their legal tender, that doesn't mean they don't still support it, or can't do it down the road.  El Salvador is even smaller than Greece population wise and is not a major player in the world economy, so in reality it won't be that big of a deal. 

70% of El Salvadorans do not have a bank account and their currency is US dollars. The people of El Salvador love Bitcoin so there is no reason for the country to change constantly, which could create disturbances to the national economy. We have to wait and see if bitcoin helps El Salvador's economy go up.
To replace Bitcoin with another means of payment, the government of El Salvador needs a better means of cashless payment than Bitcoin.

I think IMF here is worried that if a government converts a large portion of their reserves into BTC and then BTC crashes, they won't be able to repay their loans. Because if IMF had a goal of stopping Bitcoin from being used, they could lobby very hard against it, like demanding from countries to just ban it. But they never showed any big interest in BTC until now.

Anything is possible, one should not take things for granted regardless of the fact that a law has been passed - but it has not yet entered into force. The pressure is, of course, great from all those who do not like this situation, especially in the context of the fact that Bitcoin as a legal tender in El Salvador has implications for how other countries will have to treat it.

What is most often mentioned as one of the main reasons for using Bitcoin in that country are the faster and cheaper transactions of their US expatriates, who send about $6 billion a year to their home country. Can Bitcoin be a solution that will result in savings if on-chain transactions are used? In part, it will all depend on the number of transactions in mempool - sometimes the fee will be cheap, sometimes it will probably be higher than the usual bank transaction.

Using the LN specifically mentioned in their case can solve the problem - but for families who regularly receive money from abroad it would be even easier to use shared crypto wallets - person A makes a BTC deposit, person B can access that same BTC without doing any transaction.

I'm sure in this case IMF can't lobby all countries. it is not certain whether El Salvador has debts to the IMF
The IMF in this case seems to be unable to do anything, they cannot enter into the important decisions of a country

I'm sure El Salvador will defend their decision, there's no reason to back down
they will definitely not throw away the nickname as the first country to make Bitcoin a legal tender

Yeah,alright,El Salvador made Bitcoin a legal tender.That's great.
Now,can we just stop making 100s of forum threads about El Salvador this,El Salvador that,What if El Salvador...?,etc.
There's no point of discussing "What if...?" speculations.
I couldn't care less,if El Salvador decides to dump Bitcoin.It doesn't matter,if a small country pumps or dumps BTC.The price will move,some people will make profits,other people will lose money.No big deal.
Nobody in the crypto community cares about the actual problems of a poor country like El Salvador.
They only care about the Bitcoin price being pumped.

There is little concern on the Bitcoin adoption in the country, No citizen is allowed to reject any payment with bitcoin, which is not liberal to some citizens. Also not all members of the governing body support it because it is believed to be a selfish notion of the government leadership, although the volatile coin can pump to a high price with enough reserve to pay the country's debt and reserve for the future. I dont think it is over with the coin's adoption at the moment in the country

Well, that's clickbait and he successfully did it.

In other nearby countries of El Salvador, I'm not so sure if that news was real that they're also planning to get into bitcoin too. That was not just 1 country but many of them.

Look at the map what are those countries that are thinking of it.

OP, that would be a heavy blow to bitcoin.
I wish it were not like that and that the country of El Salvador has the opportunity to change history.
May President Nayib Bukele be a visionary and may he have all the tools in hand to make his nation prosper.
We have all made use of bitcoin and it has helped us to carry out some projects with which we have been satisfied. Why can't it be possible for a nation like El Salvador?
I understand that the IMF and the World Bank have great power but many nations have not been able to get out of their socio-economic problems with their programs that is why bitcoin is the best option.

Take a look at all the countries that have expressed through their legislators to include bitcoin as a means of payment in their nations

On reading your subject title i thought they announced Bitcoin as a legal tender and now they revoked that, so this is another conspiracy theory and IMF is playing a game and what is the benefit for them to play games like this, i do not think that there is any hidden objective behind El Salvador accepting Bitcoin as a legal tender. I am also curious to see how people who never used Bitcoin will be adopting to that change.

Don't you think El Salvador and its president already knew that..? Do you think that the president of El Salvador thought that, he will make Bitcoin legal tender and everyone else will agree to it.? They know that the world will not agree to decentralized money in a moment. The first steps in every technological evolution were hard and it took time for others to understand it and implement it but good things have always been implemented.

Even if they did it won't dent the market forever. if they truly want to revoke because of external pressure then it's better to do it now but if turns out el salvador could keep bitcoin as their legal tender then maybe other countries that are insterested in it gonna follow.
but I doubt the politician there gonna do that because revoking thing after approving almost immediately just come to show that they are not really good in making decision.

maybe weak hands is going crazy again right now because  of some news about El salvador and the results of the market after such news. Lol
In fact you have point there mate. " Wherein if they really have incentives and benefits on it  how comes they will revoke bitcoin." ? Seems this another fake news and really nonsense in my opinion. because it's not a joke when it's about money so how is that possible to happen ? .  ;D

the people will still keep using Bitcoin even if the law is vetoed. they should really understand that cryptocurrency is here to stay which no government can stop it. the more they try stopping it the more it's going to persist in coming back. the price may be low, it will still be used. it's like the kind of drug that use to be illegal but then eventually legalized.

Looks like even El Salvador wasn't enough to boost the price of Bitcoin. I think what it needs is a group of nations who would have the balls to add cryptocurrency to their economies. Maybe there might be other countries that has plans for Bitcoin but of course with the IMF in the way, I don't think that a dozen nation declaring Bitcoin legal would be possible. If the IMF has their way then they would be banning Bitcoin altogether. Most of us just want to see Bitcoin succeed.

I was not convinced that El Salvador will adopt Bitcoin until the very last moment.
And now I am not convinced they will will drop it just because IMF said that they won't support that.
IMF indeed lends money to the smaller/poorer countries, but they quite often ask for various things to be done by the governments, things that are usually far from nice/popular, hence it can easily lead to IMF getting turned down by governments. It has happened in the past, it will happen in the future too.

All in all, it make no sense at all overthinking and panicking because of this.

Lol this is too fast of a decision.  To say one project to not work out needs time and not just a small amount of time.  To establish well-founded proof that it really did not work well, it needs years of implementation.  I think there is something that happened that forced the government of El Salvador to change its view over Bitcoin.


Well, probably that is the case, or, some rich guy who hates Bitcoin that much to promise something that will benefit El Salvador much better than just acknowledging Bitcoin as legal tender.

The president (Nayib Bukele) is very adamant about Bitcoin, and he is not going to drop his plan just because the World Bank or the IMF doesn't support the idea. Even if they somehow bully El Salvador to roll back the changes, how long this status quo is going to last? A lot of governments are unhappy with the sharp rise in the US Dollar monetary supply in the recent times, and the reduction in purchasing power that was associated with this. El Salvador is a small country and may be forced to fall in line. But what they will do, in case Saudi Arabia or Japan does the same? 

el salvador wants to revoke bitcoin as legal tender, is this news accurate, and trustworthy, I need an explanation,?? I have no problem with that, as long as the state does not prohibit the use of bitcoin for its people, I think their people will not feel disappointed, because the people of El Salvador have been playing bitcoin for a long time, and can increase their finances because of bitcoin.

does it include a failed test process, because the price of Bitcoin has entered the bearish zone? I'm afraid this puts El Salvador in a dilemma and is not ready to accept full payment with the consequences of Bitcoin?

to the OP where can I get news about the Salvadoran government's statement regarding the repeal of the policy?
give us proof  !!!

El Salvador is a sovereign country and it doesn't need the permission from World Bank, or IMF or for that matter any other internatioal agency to make Bitcoin legal tender in that country. You can go through this article from CoinDesk, which details the situation:

https://www.coindesk.com/el-salvador-bitcoin-mandate-article-7

This is the only contentious section of the recently passed legislation:


A compromise can be reached here, IMO. Bitcoin can be kept as a legal tender. But the government should not enforce the Article 7. Because many of the smaller stores may not have the capability to accept Bitcoin for payments and to store the coins.

Read a little better what was written in the OP, because @brainactive does not claim that there is evidence about any plan to repeal the law - but raises the question whether there is a secret agreement between the IMF and the government of El Salvador to prove that Bitcoin does not can be successful as a means of payment. The evidence you are looking for does not exist at this time, and it will never exist if there is no truth in what the OP assumes.

---

A strong word, but mostly only on paper - in reality, all small countries can hardly exercise their sovereignty when various powerful organizations literally blackmail them with what they need most - financial aid.

Their pressure is usually manifested first through politics, and if it does not work, it moves to the economic aspect, which mainly means sanctions, and if that fails, the third option is to provoke a civil war to change political power or even an open military invasion to which we have witnessed several times over the past 30 years.

Tesla is a company and El Salvador is a country. There's a huge difference between them.
It was Elon Musk who decided not to use bitcoin as a payment but now he is still considering to use bitcoin once the green energy usage is increased.
El Salvador would not have accepted bitcoin as a legal tender at first place if it had to revoke it's usage.
Passing a law is not as simple as it sounds because they have to think it through before approving the law.
Besides that, few other countries are thinking to accept bitcoin as legal tender as well.
Even if for some reason El Salvador removes bitcoin as a legal tender the people in that country would still continue to use bitcoin in my perspective.
So while it can make a temporary effect on bitcoin's price, I don't think it will matter in the long run.

Maybe, but he's still a politician and whatever politicians say should not be trusted this easy.
On the other hand, you're right. El Salvador has opened the way and there's a good chance others will follow soon. And the more the better: then IMF cannot bully El Salvador so easy.

However, I'd just wait and see what's going to happen next.

Why bitcoin can touch higher price after El Savador announce with legal using bitcoin as payment currency? looking with El Savador reputation is not enough because they only small country in economic world, not any impact with global economic how to make bitcoin keep stable on higher price, maybe need country like China, Russia and United State to make bitcoin will to the heaven.

Based on news that i've read like the development and projects plans etc. Is it very unlikely to happened that El Salvador wil revoke it, I mean yeah there is always a possiblity but they are already starting project on bitcoin, and it is just getting started. There are always a possibility but it doesnt mean it is gonna happened.

They need to test it out first if it is going to work or something so if they where gonna announce that there should be a huge reason why.

There is a huge difference on Tesla and El Salvador in my opinions, but using bitcoin as a national currency could be the next big thing that could probably be the reason for other countries to step up and look what El salvador achieved when it comes to bitcoin. But for sure if that happened there might be a big bumps in the price of bitcoin if bad news is announce.

If this is true and they decide to reverse this initiative, it is sad. It means that the authorities twisted their hands or simply bought it for real money or regular guarantees of new loans. No country has actually grown richer after this "aid" from the World Monetary Fund. Everyone just lost real production, replaced real politicians with puppets, and that's all they have achieved. It is clear that seeing a conspiracy everywhere is strange, but something is certainly strange to change such fateful decisions for the country on the go.

Thats going to be extreme from the imf and I don't think they have this much interference in what a country decides to do with its laws, the furthest they can do is advice what happens after that is the country’s business and its people.
Otherwise this law still stands, bitcoin remains to be a legal tender currency in El Salvador.

I heard El Savador government give about 30$ each people create bitcoin wallet and I think is very good way how to promote and make their reputation is good on the world, but still not giving anything good although have been legal bitcoin still down under 33k$, bigger country need help to legal bitcoin transaction and more power to know will bitcoin back to higher price again or not.

You may not know it but IMF doesn't worry about taking back the money for their grants or loans, they care more about favor and long-term stuff that don't necessarily have to be paid in money so there's a likely chance that if the deal is sweet enough for El Salvador, maybe they might revoke it. But I don't think that IMF will go to that length to just do that, I mean it's a small country so the damage isn't big enough.

I don't think the IMF also forbids.El Salvador to keep a small amount of its.currency assets.with crypto, especially since they have been.using this currency for a long time, to be adopted.in their country.This may.be impossible if.the country stopsadopting.bitcoin as a currency. legal currency in.their country.what's more they are able to help their country's.economy.a little with the tax generator from the crypto money

Why the heck are you spreading negative rumours without any sort of legitimate proof to back them up? El Salvador won't easily reverse their decision unless something crazy happens and chances of something like that happening are low.

Also, what makes you think that the IMF has the potential to dictate such extreme circumstances? So many governments around the world tried to ban BTC and cryptocurrencies and ended up failing.

Tip: Instead of spreading pointless negativity in the forum, try to spread positivity instead.

I think the current President of El Salvador make a big move by deciding to chase Bitcoin as a legal currency for his country. He is very tech savvy, if not starting to show some authoritarian tendencies and people like that tend to not like admitting to mistakes. Tesla had his rather sprawling business empire to defend and his foray into cryptocurrency speculation was starting to damage his reputation even further (who knew that was possible). However if the President of El Salvador was to revoke his rather unprecedented move into the space, it might actually signal that he is woefully incompetent and too unstable - which would ultimately undermine his leadership decisions. I cannot see the current President going back on this decision, even if his predecessor will be forced to do so due to an IMF decision. The fact that he is giving away free money to people while also essentially begging for loans from the world bank is the height of hypocrisy.

You title is such a clickbait. Threads and titles like this is what spreads the rumors and FUDs. You are making it sound like El Salvador has announced to revoke bitcoin as legal tender, yet your thread says "what if?". Don't mislead people. This will only cause a negative outcome.
El Salvador knows what they are doing. They were ready to handle bitcoin as legal tender, hence they did it. I don't think they will revoke it as it will cause a lot of problems. It's going to be a chaos for their citizens that invested in bitcoin or business that accepted bitcoin because it was a legal tender. You are just being very speculative and thinking only about the worst.

In any case, before El Salvador passed the proposal of Bitcoin as a legal currency, even if something like your concern appeared in the end, citizens of this country have already adapted to using Bitcoin for payment and it has influenced many countries to start to consider Bitcoin as their home country. Fiat currency, I don’t believe that the International Monetary Fund will provide any effective help to this country. They just want to prevent them from continuing to use Bitcoin. This will have a certain impact on the hegemony of the US dollar. Bitcoin is not only a counterattack against the wealth of ordinary people. It is also an opportunity for many small sovereign countries’ gdp to move. The world is developing, and are you standing still.

I was stunned and thought it was another news... I don't think it will happen. Although Tesla is a company and El Salvador is a country, El Salvador is not a big country and has little influence. The law that El Salvador has just enacted, after a long period of trial, will see its advantages and disadvantages.
So I don't think this country will end this era in this way.

Most other countries are not in as good a position as El Salvador to tackle this kind of legalization... making bitcoin legal tender was sensible for El Salvador because they haven't had a currency of their own for a while now... in nearly every other country this is not the case --i.e. there is a state-backed currency.

Does that surprise you? If you check this forum, you will find thousands of such clickbait threads posted by noobs. They just want to increase their post count/activity, so that they become eligible to participate in signature campaigns after sometime. We are talking about a country, where the parliament has passed a bill making Bitcoin as the legal tender (and that too with a super-majority). And the OP claims that there is still a chance that all that can be undone. The fact that El Salvador has accepted Bitcoin as a legal tender means that we are approaching the last stage of the "early adoption" phase. Now we will be moving to the "mainstream" phase.