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The FBI wants to keep $86 million in cash and millions more in jewelry and other valuables seized in a raid on a Beverly Hills, California, safe deposit box business, even though a judge specifically said the contents of the boxes weren’t up for grabs.

Prosecutors claim it’s fair to make the renters of the 369 safe deposit boxes forfeit their valuables, because they were engaged in criminal activity, the Los Angeles Times reported. But there’s no evidence to support the allegation.

The box holders and their lawyers say the FBI is trampling on the rights of people who were unaware the business, U.S. Private Vaults, was charged in a sealed indictment with conspiring to sell drugs and launder money.

The warrant that US Magistrate Steve Kim signed on March 17 giving permission for the FBI to raid the business even said, “This warrant does not authorize a criminal search or seizure of the contents of the safety deposit boxes.”

If the FBI wanted to search the boxes, it needed to meet the standard for a warrant of probable cause that evidence of a crime would be found. But agents rifled through about 800 boxes anyway, filming their searches and bagging the property as evidence even when the holders were unknown and not suspected of crimes.

Now, the government is trying to keep the cash, gold and silver bars, pricey watches and even $1.3 million in poker chips from a Las Vegas casino.

The government “can’t take stuff without evidence in the hopes that you’re going to get it later,” Benjamin Gluck, an attorney who represents box holders suing the government to retrieve their property, told the Times. “The Fourth Amendment and the forfeiture laws require the opposite — that you have the evidence first, and then you can take property.”

“We have some basis to believe that the items are related to criminal activity,” Thom Mrozek, a spokesman for the FBI’s LA office, told the Times.

The contents of about 75 of the 800 boxes initially seized have already been returned, and at least 175 more will be given back, Mrozek said. The feds haven’t figured out who owns what was stored in many of the others.

The indictment says U.S. Private Vaults marketed itself to attract criminals who wanted to store valuables anonymously and hide from tax authorities. One of the company’s owners and a manager were involved in selling drugs and co-conspirators helped customers convert cash into gold to evade government suspicion, the Times reported.

But box owners like Joseph Ruiz, who kept $57,000 in cash from two legal settlements there because he doesn’t trust banks, say the government is stealing their money.

“I’m made out to be a criminal, and I didn’t do anything,” said Ruiz, the son of a retired Los Angeles police officer, told the paper. “I’m a law-abiding citizen.”

Ruiz has joined one of 11 lawsuits filed by box owners seeking the return of their property.




https://nypost.com/2021/06/12/fbi-aims-to-keep-valuables-86m-cash-found-in-safe-deposit-store-raid/

I was reading an article a while ago of how self storage could be more secure than safe deposit boxes as they're still quite well insured, in busy areas, and a camouflaged by other items. Your $1M of gold could be between lockers containing a piano, bed sheets, a sofa, a desk chair...

How did they manage to take photos of stuff and then not be able to identify whose is whose, that bit is a bit confusing.

But agents rifled through about 800 boxes anyway, filming their searches and bagging the property as evidence even when the holders were unknown and not suspected of crimes.

The FBI is just as corrupt as any other organisation in this world which is why this news didn't surprise me at all.

But it seems the FBI and the state have no intent to return much of the stolen items. Despite them not having filed lawsuits against the holders of the property or providing evidence suggesting any of the assets were involved with illegal activity.

But it seems the FBI and the state have no intent to return much of the stolen items.

According to the article, 75 boxes have already been returned, and another 175 will also be returned to their owners - meaning that the feds return everything that is not illegal, as well as those boxes for which it can be determined to whom they belong. ~~~

Does this surprise anyone? Asset seizure has become a regular occurrence in the United States. Anyone remember what happened to user BurtW (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=14808)? And this is not just the case with US, but with almost every country in the world. Nowadays a lot of the regimes think that being successful is a crime. If you have a few hundred thousand USD worth of savings, then you are automatically being labelled as a criminal. And more so, if you are keeping your assets away from the banks and stock exchanges.

Another great example about how crypto is the way you should hold your money, and not in coinbase or anything like that neither where FBI could reach it, just put it in a safe wallet and just lock that down, that way even if you are caught they will not be able to take control of your money, think about it the comparison is that in fiat world your money is stolen by FBI even if you are not a criminal, and in crypto world you get to keep your money even if you are a criminal, that is a staggering difference. This is why I love crypto, I am not a criminal myself but I do like to keep my money away from everyone.

I do not have to worry about FBI anyway since I am not in USA and not even remotely close to rich enough to be cared (actually not even rich, unfortunately) but I still do not like it when government branches act whatever the way they want to do without worrying about consequences. This is the same FBI that did COINTELPRO and nobody cared, nothing happened.

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Interesting story here.

The FBI confiscated more than $86 million dollars worth of money, valuables, jewelry and items stashed in safety deposit boxes, in a raid. Despite a search warrant which expressly forbid them from confiscating anything contained in the boxes.

This happened in los angeles. Of course, this being america there were lawsuits filed. But it seems the FBI and the state have no intent to return much of the stolen items. Despite them not having filed lawsuits against the holders of the property or providing evidence suggesting any of the assets were involved with illegal activity.

There have been claims of the DEA (drug enforcement agency) confiscating $100,000 from the safe of legal medical marijuana retailers. Without the lost funds being returned. But this is on an entirely different level with more than $86 million confiscated. Not from fringe operations like legalized weed. But from middle class or wealthy americans, who don't seem to have been involved with anything illegal or sketchy.

OK.. that's pretty cool. Why limit this to safe deposit boxes? Let FBI seize all the property owned by the Americans - cash, real estate, stocks, bullion, antiques.etc. Then they can ask the owners to submit evidence to prove that these assets were not illegally obtained. If the Feds are not satisfied with the documents, then they can just seize the assets and distribute it among themselves. Sounds like a really cool idea.

BTW, what about the allegation from one of the victims that $75,000 worth of gold coins are missing, after the feds rifled through the boxes?

If the FBI wanted to search the boxes, it needed to meet the standard for a warrant of probable cause that evidence of a crime would be found. But agents rifled through about 800 boxes anyway, filming their searches and bagging the property as evidence even when the holders were unknown and not suspected of crimes.

This is another justification of having your own safe vaults. Entrusting it to a third-party will always come with greater risks compared to when you're keeping the things on your own.

I honestly don't care what the FBI or any other agency in the US does, because even though they always try to stand out as the greatest democracy in the world, I would never like to feel that kind of democracy on my skin. In a country where people are still being killed because of the color of their skin and a country that has directly or indirectly started dozens of wars and caused millions of deaths for its own interests, is anyone surprised that one of their agencies is acting like this?

We can't do much about it, they're the FBI and if what they decide to do is to keep the stuff for evidence or as a part of the illegal activity then that's their call, and we can't do a thing about that.

One very good reason to "outsource" your valuables is to prevent a $5 wrench attack. If a burglar can't open your wall safe, he can beat you up when you get home.

We can't do much about it, they're the FBI and if what they decide to do is to keep the stuff for evidence or as a part of the illegal activity then that's their call, and we can't do a thing about that.

even though a judge specifically said the contents of the boxes weren’t up for grabs.

The box holders and their lawyers say the FBI is trampling on the rights of people who were unaware the business, U.S. Private Vaults, was charged in a sealed indictment with conspiring to sell drugs and launder money.

The warrant that US Magistrate Steve Kim signed on March 17 giving permission for the FBI to raid the business even said, “This warrant does not authorize a criminal search or seizure of the contents of the safety deposit boxes.”

If the FBI wanted to search the boxes, it needed to meet the standard for a warrant of probable cause that evidence of a crime would be found. But agents rifled through about 800 boxes anyway, filming their searches and bagging the property as evidence even when the holders were unknown and not suspected of crimes.

One very good reason to "outsource" your valuables is to prevent a $5 wrench attack. If a burglar can't open your wall safe, he can beat you up when you get home.

No not right to seize people's belongings without prove to confisticate. If the FBI suspect an illegal dealing, they have the right to investigate and at same time respect the ruling of court. Like in op quote, the judge ruled that those confisticated items are not for grabs.

You should care not because they are good, but because they are bad. Basically FBI is what USA does to increase profit for the rich people approved by the military complex and bribed politicians but can't do legally. You want someone killed? USA can't just go up to them and murder them, they have FBI do a covert op and just murder them and make it look like they had nothing to do with it.

If it is so easy for them to kill people (which has been proven a million times by now) just to make money, do you have any idea how much they care when it is about money directly? Crypto is literally finance, and when you are doing something that is powering people and destroy the power of centralized government? Well I can't imagine what they will be able to do. So every news about FBI is a greatly important news, they were capable of confiscating 86 million dollars worth of stuff here, they can't in crypto, hence the problem.

We can't do much about it, they're the FBI and if what they decide to do is to keep the stuff for evidence or as a part of the illegal activity then that's their call, and we can't do a thing about that.

Exactly, I think that it's within their power to seize the items and as the quote above says, they're the FBI and you won't be able to do much about them because they are acting on federal level so they aren't to be messed with. It may sound unfair to us but we don't exactly know the full story behind the seizure and why they kept the valuables.

Interesting story here.

The FBI confiscated more than $86 million dollars worth of money, valuables, jewelry and items stashed in safety deposit boxes, in a raid. Despite a search warrant which expressly forbid them from confiscating anything contained in the boxes.

This happened in los angeles. Of course, this being america there were lawsuits filed. But it seems the FBI and the state have no intent to return much of the stolen items. Despite them not having filed lawsuits against the holders of the property or providing evidence suggesting any of the assets were involved with illegal activity.

There have been claims of the DEA (drug enforcement agency) confiscating $100,000 from the safe of legal medical marijuana retailers. Without the lost funds being returned. But this is on an entirely different level with more than $86 million confiscated. Not from fringe operations like legalized weed. But from middle class or wealthy americans, who don't seem to have been involved with anything illegal or sketchy.

It's pretty disgusting how law enforcement operate these days and this is (one of many) prime examples out there. The moment that police departments were allowed by law to seize goods and use the funds from those seize goods to fund themselves, was part of the whole system breaking down. Besides the fact that they have willfully ignored the judges orders (which should be a case for dismissal for any police officer directly involved in seizing the goods) they have a perverse incentive to take as much property as possible, if it will be eventually sold for the benefit of their city budget. It thoroughly breaks the "innocent until proven guilty" bedrock of society that America was built on and is one of many things that needs rowing back on for stability and faith in the police to return.

It is not within their power to seize these assets. And that is the reason why the judge (Steve Kim) rejected the request from the FBI to keep the valuables with themselves. The judge was very clear when he said that if the FBI want to seize these assets, then they need to present solid evidence to prove that they are proceedings from crime (FBI was arguing for the reverse scenario - the owners should first present evidence to claim that these assets are not linked to any criminal transaction). So we can say that at least in this instance, the FBI is not getting what they wanted.

Interesting story here.

The FBI confiscated more than $86 million dollars worth of money, valuables, jewelry and items stashed in safety deposit boxes, in a raid. Despite a search warrant which expressly forbid them from confiscating anything contained in the boxes.

This happened in los angeles. Of course, this being america there were lawsuits filed. But it seems the FBI and the state have no intent to return much of the stolen items. Despite them not having filed lawsuits against the holders of the property or providing evidence suggesting any of the assets were involved with illegal activity.

There have been claims of the DEA (drug enforcement agency) confiscating $100,000 from the safe of legal medical marijuana retailers. Without the lost funds being returned. But this is on an entirely different level with more than $86 million confiscated. Not from fringe operations like legalized weed. But from middle class or wealthy americans, who don't seem to have been involved with anything illegal or sketchy.

I am not an expert on the law or anything but even if there was an express order to not do so if the FBI uses the patriot act to justify their actions they could get away with it, so let this be a lesson for anyone reading those articles, the governments can decide what is fair or not and change the rules as it suits them, so centralization will always be a point of failure and if you have some valuables to store like gold, jewelry and other stuff never do so in safe deposit boxes.