Bitcoin Forum

I just received a parcel of a few bulls & eagles from an eBay seller. Once I opened up the parcel, I thought it'd be interesting to compare the new "peeled" coins with the unpeeled, legit ones I had in my collection. At first glance, it seemed like the coins were legit. Now I am sure the eagle is fake, but the bull is still giving me conflicted thoughts. Did this guy send me a legit peeled bull and a fake eagle or is the bull fake so well made?!

Here are photos of the fake eagle put next to the legit one:

Front: Fake (left) vs Legit (right): https://i.imgur.com/uiCOBVI.jpg
Back: Fake (left) vs Legit (right): https://i.imgur.com/MNbletz.jpg

The symbol, up close (legit): https://i.imgur.com/KEut4hi.jpg
The same symbol, up close (fake): https://i.imgur.com/FLaZaKl.jpg

Front, up close (fake): https://i.imgur.com/8Q1XSxb.jpg
Front, up close (legit): https://i.imgur.com/xrPTyzT.jpg

Front v2, up close (fake): https://i.imgur.com/suzV7wD.jpg
Front v2, up close (legit): https://i.imgur.com/YRdvhb4.jpg

Back, up close (fake): https://i.imgur.com/inOhlNh.jpg
Back, up close (legit): https://i.imgur.com/yukjlVu.jpg

Certificates: Legit (left) vs Fake (right): https://i.imgur.com/DGoJeo2.jpg

Beware! :)

uugh, tldr: dont buy coins from ebay.

That said whats the going rate for an eagle? They sure are pretty and I assume they dont have the sweeping issue of the bull.

Fake Sol Noctis Eagles have been going around for some time however I don’t know that I’ve ever seen them faked this well before. Your obvious tell-tale sign is that there is no hologram on the “fake” eagles. Have you tested this coin to make sure it’s in fact not real silver, meaning maybe this person really is simply selling redeemed Sol Noctis coins? I’ve also never seen fakes being sold with COAs. Also I don’t see any photos of fake Sol Noctis Bulls like you mention? Do you have a link to any of the sales pages?

Btw kinda curious, how did you know to come here to the btalk collectibles section for this, being your first post and all?

As mentioned in OP, they have been sold as peeled/redeemed.

The way these lines are carved makes it seem like the coin is fake and I doubt the coin was printed this way. Instead of sharp lines, they are pretty blurry on the fake version. It looks almost like I did not have the right focus when snapping the pics: https://i.imgur.com/HtJP9xg.jpg, https://i.imgur.com/0hotn2K.jpg,

I'll see what options I have to test the coin's material. The very small symbol can clearly be seen close-up that, on the fake one, it's very smooth and has no real shape while the real coin has a very pointy, sharpy symbol: https://i.imgur.com/4syH46E.jpg (pic 1), https://i.imgur.com/bS4GZvj.jpg (pic 2), https://i.imgur.com/SpnlCj0.jpg (pic 3)

Another tell-tale sign might be that the fake one has its reflective back smooth and plain like a mirror. The real one, at least the one I own, does not have such a smooth back..

I also mentioned that the bull is probably not fake, but I assume they are selling fake bulls too. I took some pictures with my phone, maybe they help more.

Here's a picture of the probably legit bull next to the 100% legit one (I don't think it's necessary to upload other pics, it seems legit especially since it has some hologram residue on the back): https://i.imgur.com/Ieotv9I.jpg

Yeah I read that you said they are being sold as peeled/redeemed, that's why I mentioned checking if it's real silver.  You bring up some very valid observations.  Do you have a link for the ebay sale? 

Yes, this is it: https://www.ebay.de/itm/363410367606

Oh wow, looks like they've got quite a few there.  I am not sure that the mint ever actually fully sold out of these coins.  It is possible that they decided to simply redeem the coins and then sell them off.  However based on your photos it certainly does look like they may be fakes. 

Any Mr Robots around here able to run some sort of search on the Sol Noctis keys to see if a bunch of them have been recently cashed out? 

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, something certainly smells fishy here! 

Please your info on this thread as well

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3315347.0

They are not "fakes"....  better called a "replica", as the dates are different and quite apparent there is no hologram.
These coins have been around for 5 years now...  easy to spot as they all have the same address!
Discussed in 2016 when they came out: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1572097.0
They also make a "golden" 2016 replica as well.....

Where are the fake Binary Bulls mentioned in the title?

You got sold a redeemed, cleaned coin....   ::)

What do you mean by the dates are different ? Also, I’m not so sure these are peeled/cleaned coins, I think they are a straight knock offs/ fakes.

Thanks for taking the time to post and all the pics !

Looks like you bought redeemed coins. I mean, for that price, I would not expect it to be loaded either. ::)

Edit - Text of listing doesn't mention any load value afaict either.

This is a German merchant for stamps and coins.

I don't believe that this store sells forgery/counterfeit.

https://www.briefmarken-muenzen-grewe.de/epages/61845050.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61845050/Categories

I will call this store this week and ask them some questions about this offer:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/363410367606

I think that they have redeemed these coins to sell the Bitcoin on them.

This seller has a rating of 99,9% on eBay.

From the coins in plastic bags in ebay post pics. Seems like they were able to got hold of shit load of coins when they were minted or something or they just created high quality fakes with real silver. I highly doubt someone can redeem the coins and make them look brand new in proof condition.

I agree.  I think they are re-prints/fakes.  We know who originally made these ( LesbianCow has been in touch before ), we should ask them what they think.

The merchant has uploaded new pictures:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/393344833926

There you can see that the holograms were removed.

Guys here is the answer of the merchant:

In German:
Irgendwie habe ich das Gefühl das Sie kein Kaufmann sind.
Es handelt sich hier doch um eine private Medaille die von einer Firma durch die polnische Münze hat herstellen lassen.
Zum Zeitpunkt der Herstellung war der Silberkurs bei 400 Euro pro Kilo und der Bitcoin 2000 Euro d.h. 1/100 tel 20 Euro.
d.H. die Medaille wird in der Herstellung mit Bitcoin maximal 40 Euro gekostet haben. Vor ein paar Wochen war der Bitcoin 50000.-
Also hat der Herausgeber der Medaille den Bitcoin für 500 Euro abgellöst und abgerechnet und uns den Rest als Silber verkauft.

Wo ist Ihr Problem?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In English (Google Translator):
Somehow I have the feeling that you are not a businessman.
It is a private medal that was produced by a company through the Polish Mint.
At the time of manufacture, the silver rate was 400 euros per kilo and the Bitcoin was 2000 euros, i.e. 1/100 of 20 euros.
i.e. the medal will have cost a maximum of 40 euros to be made with Bitcoin. A few weeks ago the bitcoin was 50,000 -
so the publisher of the medal redeemed and settled the bitcoin for 500 euros and sold the rest to us as silver.

What's your problem?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can someone ask at TopWorldCoins if this story is correct?

This part makes a lot of sense since the maker cashed out on bitcoin on the uptick and still sold the coins to a wholesaler for the silver value.

They prob did the same for the binary eagles since the value of btc is lot more higher than when they were actually minted..

Can anyone forward this to TopWorldCoins?
If the statement is true?

My Bull coin was compromised with the hologram intact. Going out on a limb, the manufacturer likely realized all the private keys were compromised and redeemed the coins. Check out the sticky link at the top of Collectibles regarding scam/compromised section for the entire backstory.

@fake_eagles

you have to test, to determine if those coins consist of .999 silver or not. If coins are .999 silver, I do not see any huge financial advantage for someone to counterfeit redeemed silver coins, and make .999 silver replicas. (unless it is Casascius redeemed silver coins :D )

To my eyes, those Sol Noctis Eagles doesn't seem necessary fakes. Those coins might be "seconds" ie. coins that were rejected from quality checks (due to scratches, dents, blurry, blemish etc.), never loaded, and after 7 years, Mint of Poland instead of melting them, decided to sell them to a merchant at wholesale -near spot-, as silver rounds.


Prolly they sold way less than 2009 coins with holos, and they can get away with that (since the certificate says mintage up to 2009 coins), by selling the rest (up to 2009) as silver rounds (without holo)...

This might also explain the fact that there are no remnants of the holo, since prolly a holo never applied. (+ the reason that some parts of this coin is blurry/not very smooth in comparison with the loaded coin you have in your possession)

that's just my theory/opinion (I do not have any proof), and I might be totally wrong.

Mint of Poland might be the one that could be able to provide some explanations (about the status of those coins), instead of the Ebay seller.

Edit: the backside of the coin, is different from the well known "fakes" in circulation, since there is no address engraved, and no btc symbol inside the holo area. This is how a fake looks like:

https://i.imgur.com/QmnSFRg.jpg