Bitcoin Forum

C'mon, you all knew it was coming.

Yes, the price of bitcoin has dropped even further today, dropping below $ 30,000, after a relatively long time marking time. There was a forecast that if this happens, then its price could collapse up to $ 10,000. The return path of growth, in this case, will be very long. However, another question arises here: if this happens a few more times, then who will invest in it on subsequent rises, say, above $ 40,000? Are we going to count on some newbies? Then it may not even rise to one hundred thousand dollars.

Yep, it was unsustainable at $30,000 but guess what, it’s unsustainable at $20,000 too. I genuinely believe within 12 months bitcoin will be under $10,000. It’s sad to see so many people conned by the likes of Saylor.

Exactly!

You've painted out a plan of bitcoin going up 4x and then said newbies won't buy it?

That's still a 4x return, it's all they'll see ans all the news will be reporting on...

From you? Clearly.
And it's already somewhat funny: you've got it wrong a couple of times (and I've got cocky), now you've got it right a couple of times and you've got cocky...
I can't wait until the tide turns again  ;D

You know what they say, create a decent number of price predictions and at some point you're going to get at least one of them right. The typical market fortune teller.

So what? This is good time to accumulate more bitcoin. In the few years later i do believe people will call us are lucky bastard to be able to buy bitcoin on below $30,000. Remember about last bitcoin ATH around $19,000 in late 2017 back then? Now people calling those people are lucky enough to able bought bitcoin on that cheap price.

if so, at least and give us the rationale, for example with some fundamental analysis or some techniques how to read Bitcoin price movements for the next 10 days. As a small trader I am very enthusiastic to listen to your discussion, not just mere speculation and leaving many questions.

prices crash from 60k to 30 k since three months or more without stopping ,i don't know which type of market is bitcoin this not  good , i hope prices to recover soon , i dont know why this shema dump and pump happend every time , this is the problem when investing in bitcoin , prices fall and bitcoin will have no value , i hope bitcoin will recover very soon because traders does not want all this drama of crash

This day was going to come, it was quite obvious. In fact, I think that this fall will continue until the price reaches $25k. But then, I think that everything will start changing. We'll start leaving the bear market behind. And we'll hear the footsteps of a new bull run.

Yeah, maybe next year if tesla will accept again bitcoin payment or wait till the 4th quarter since price differs always in the last few months of the year.

While others are selling and panicking that price will go so much down, there are some who buys the dip

1000 BTC - https://twitter.com/whale_alert/status/1417439982441074689
3714 BTC - https://twitter.com/whale_alert/status/1417402793137168407
1182 BTC - https://twitter.com/whale_alert/status/1417481275414355976

😉😎

The dump is inevitable, it is bound to happen as correction is really necessary, whatever the reasons behind this fall, we should always think that this is a big correction on the bull runt that we had enjoyed this year. Of course, there's still the possibility that bitcoin will create a new ATH, but I doubt it will surpass the new ATH this year.

And this is the period when people's loyalty to btc is tested and also you can clearly see from the bear market where the interest of the majority lies, people can lie to themselves all they want but eventually the reality always comes to light, when btc price is on the rise and pumping you will come across many self declaration topics about btc and where it stand, but ones the reverse is the case, thoughts will change drastically, and i ask myself, if fiat is the enemy then while people suddenly dump btc for fiat claiming bear market because if nobody is selling for fiat there won't be anything like bear market.

Thankfully, Taleb put all the maths, science, and research into an easy to read 6 page, irrefutable paper (https://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/BTC-QF.pdf). Bitcoin is worth $0. The knowledge of that fact is simply taking a long time to sink in because there's so much fake news about bitcoin and scammers. Of course, it's now apparent that more and more of the market is catching on, which is how I know for certain that bitcoin will not be able to stay above $30k for 10 consecutive days ever again. Every year from here out will see lower and lower bitcoin prices until it reaches it's mathematically proven value of $0.

That was an interesting paper by N N Taleb*.  Parts of it are a tad technical, but to get the gist of it is not that difficult.  I was a little disappointed that he did not lay out an easy inflation hedge though.

On the other hand, I enjoyed his remarks on the Italian telephone tokens (gettoni), I remember using them several years ago at Lake Como to do my clothes at the laundromat (ya know back in the days before buying and then reselling my BTC).

I highly recommend Taleb's paper recommended to all BTC-ers.

* N N Taleb wrote the book The Black Swan, and is considered brilliant in the world of quantitative finance.

Would be funny if this post was proven wrong 10 days after being posted. Tomorrow is a big day for Bitcoin. I suspect there will be some good news and at the very least a pump attempt. I’d be very concerned if I had placed shorts below $30K, as there’s a greater than zero chance you are about to get rekt.

I think OP confused the meaning of the words "above" and "below" ;)

I don't think we had any significant amount of panic selling to be honest, otherwise the moment price went below $30k it should have escalated and like an avalanche price should have reached $20k, which it obviously didn't which goes to show the lack of panic sellers and price is not jumping back up again!

It seem that the $29K support is still strong enough to withstand the panic selling that has been going on for at least 10 weeks since May. This is the reason why there is confidence to see bitcoin's much greater potential because institutional investors still want to survive in situation like this like MicroStrategy. Weak hands will sell out in a panic, while strong hands will hold on and will probably buy more on the way dips.

If I have merit after ten days you posted this I will give you one for accurately predicting and being brave enough to predict, there will be a meeting going on between Dorsey and Musk and I'm sure you know all this and yet you come up with this bold prediction, so let's see the impact after that meeting, and if you are proven wrong better lock this thread.

bitcoin today has gone up 6%, the proof is that it has improved from before with the price having reached another $31k before it fell below $30k.
so op's predictions don't seem to match the real conditions on the chart and it looks like bitcoin already has support for big investors.

Yesterday may be a bad day for Bitcoin because it was going to drop again and again.
But, I don't think that it will be true exactly. I know that Bitcoin price will be falling down, but this time? I don't think so and even I am not sure it will be in this current market.
Although the chart really doesn't offer a good point so far in this week, will it be continuity or even it will be rising up this week.

The value of BTC is never stable, it may go above $30k and go below $30k any time. Because there is no standard of the lowest price in bearish and the highest price in bullish, so it shouldn't be stay above $30k forever. Of course, there is no guarantee about Bitcoin price to stay $30k for the next 10 years or more. The most possible thing is that the value will always depend on the current demand at that time.

I agree but many are not able to give accurate information because the crypto market is not stable. But I don't think the price of bitcoin will go down that much even if it goes down a little it will go up again.

OP said above $30K for 10 consecutive days. That means it could rise to that level but it would not be able to maintain it for the next 10 days (it could go $29K again). I've watched some TAs that price could go to $27K by the end of the month.

A lot of people have been saying that since it reached $60K but it's still declining.

Yes, market sentiment will not adjust so quickly. I think that this time the price of Bitcoin has reached 29,200 US dollars. It is possible that DCEP has affected Chinese speculators, causing them to temporarily abandon Bitcoin to pursue altcoins.

Just a matter of time before bitcoin stays above 30k for 10 consecutive days and he will surely be back with yet another fail prediction. Just looking at his post history, and he made some wild claims 10 years ago too. I mean, no one really expected to see BTC at these level back in 2011, but this guy was pessimistic right from the start. It really baffles me what's keeping him here...

no one knows, but 10k within 12 months? Seems not a good situation, maybe i agree that bitcoin as of today still don't have strong support with the current value but its too hard to say as well it will gonna go down below 20k afterwards, wherein for how many months that it keeps holding and that's the results? Well that would be the worst part despite of the situation, 60k to 30k and next will be 10k.? Lol i can't imagine it will happen in the future. .

I find his predictions somewhere in the area of "funny trolling" actually.
One of my replies to him highlighted this pretty good imho:

It was really obvious that Bitcoin price was going to go down below $30k and get stuck there for some time. We were witnessing a gradual decrease before that. I don't know the reason but the price got a really good momentum and climbed over $32k very quickly. Maybe it was related to the Musk - Dorsey meeting or it was something else, it's difficult to say.

At the moment there is a tough fight between bears and bulls, but apparently the bulls are giving their all and although the market direction looks very bearish, this for many is a positive signal for investors, since a more outlook is seen favorable:

https://i.imgur.com/jnBpnLE.png
Source: https://cointelegraph.com/news/price-analysis-7-23-btc-eth-bnb-ada-xrp-doge-dot-uni-bch-ltc (https://cointelegraph.com/news/price-analysis-7-23-btc-eth-bnb-ada-xrp-doge-dot-uni-bch-ltc)

This type of analysis is very good because I think that in the short term it is difficult for it to fall below $ 30k, the bulls are motivated and want to fight more and not be won.

I'm usually pretty decent at detecting trolling, but I must admit that if he is indeed trolling, it went completely over my head, kudos to him :D. I guess that would explain why he is on the forum for so long and despite being so pesimistic.

well you have yet to be proven wrong about 35k

so let us see if you are right about 30k.

There must be some weird fetish of his.
The whole thing gets a little weirder when we realize how many times he has been proved wrong, yet he still insists on trying again.

It’s coming but time can tell so we have to wait for further trends and so far Bitcoin was able to bounce back after hitting the price of below $30k, that could be a great sign that the dump will not happen or the price already hits the bottom. This maybe FUD or what, but everything is possible with Bitcoin so better to stay awake and be ready for the next trend.

He is like a light and less active version of kwukduck (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=654), although the duck got bored in 2018 and stopped coming around but OP seems to be more persistent in his trolling :)

If you check the charts you can see that bitcoin failed to stay below $30k for more than a single day!

If he would be indeed pessimistic and that for real, he would most probably no longer be here. And if he would be serious, and take himself serious, I guess that this kind of posts would not be possible:  ;D

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Yeah, the duck was rather sour and was taking himself (far too) serious. He was meaning every word and was concerned that people will basically lose everything if investing into Bitcoin.

Probably because the grave that he/she has digged is already too deep for him to be forgiven so he just makes himself crazy even if he is already wrong about his predictions, I want to see this person still saying the same thing when the prices are already on the 100k USD price.

Everyone assumes that he is serious about all of this but I keep telling you guys I am sure that dude is just joking around, he is trolling everyone. He doesn't believe what he is saying, he knows that it will stay over 30k for 10 days, it will stay over 30k for years eventually without ever going under, it will stay over 100k for years eventually these are all known things and he obviously knows it, who doesn't know this? Even my father who has no idea how any of this works realizes how big it will get and stay there, everyone understands and knows the power of bitcoin.

However do you think "bitcoin will be over 30k for 10 days in a row" would get him any attention? That is like common sense that everyone knows so it’s not something that will get any attention, go create a topic like that if you want and see how little attention you will get BUT saying it will not? That gets attention and that’s what a troll wants.

He should be hiding in a grave by now as the market started to rise and hopefully he will come back and change the title so that he will not look like a junkyard dick  :P. If you are in the market for a long time then you will have an idea how the market will perform and the price was having a good support around $30k for weeks and if that is the case you cannot expect the market to go down unless there is something that could push the market further down which was highly unlikely.

Having a positive motivations for its going to come, yes! I'm also gaining that confident right now as I've seen the green indications of price change.
I can wait within 10 days or more, because previously it took months for us to stay within our patients despite of no choice but to hold our coins.
Don't rejoice yet, accumulate your balance prior the biggest pumps will happen in history just to encourage everyone here.

Indeed, this is another thread title which wont be relevant in the very near future.

Everyone knows the market can change on the smallest bit of news, look at the
Bitcoin price movement since last Sunday when Elon Musk announced


It might be just coincidence but this is the type of thing which can build confidence
into the market for Musk followers.

Positive vibes are very important, it's nice to hear that as more and more people feel a strong sense of optimism.
the price trend seen at this time has the potential that it will strengthen, hopes and opportunities are clearly widely opened for real. Also, it's time to convince newbies to get into bitcoin, this can strengthen the persuasion to them to participate in auspicious party.

The price trend slowly becomes strong and gives good moves in this week, so hopefully, the price will increase more than now in the next week. We hope that the bull trend will come to bitcoin again and change the direction of the price and once bitcoin can show the strong, the altcoin will follow behind bitcoin. I am sure we all can wait for more to see where the bitcoin price will move because we believe that bitcoin will increase and be at the highest price.

proudhon is the reason why de-meriting should exist.

Hey @proudhon, would you mind explain me this:

What's the “scientific” fact that proves the quoted statement? What's the fact that proves that a product cannot pass a certain (arbitrary) price?

LOL! Thanks for the quoted message.

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There are some people who truly want to be proven right when the rest of the society believes otherwise. They're not psychologically fine. One could say that they're diseased (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizotypal_personality_disorder).

Sorry I missed this OP, I knew I could count on you. You were (so far) correct on your last similar consecutive-day prediction, nice to see you do a McAfee doubling down type thread.

Weekend bump is only slightly surprising to me. Mr Space CEO is doing his thang, and the sheep be doing their thang.

Still waiting for the bears to actually do something a bit more serious on their efforts to break and destroy 30k support though. What do you think's keeping their knees weak?

Haha he keeps on saying scientific and mathematical analysis.
I guess he literally mean the word scientific and mathematical analysis without even providing any explanation  :D

Anyway, he's right again Btc price was not able to sustain the $30,000 because Btc has been gradually increasing lol. The only difference he's looking and hoping is the down fall of Btc price and it seems like it's not going to happen till the 30th.

This person really has a very distinctive purpose of existence in this forum  :D

We can never be sure, we still have 6 days before we end this month, based on the price history, bitcoin can fall or pump even 20% in just 24 hours, so anything could happen. The trend is increasing but we are not yet back in bullish market.

Well the truth is, my sig line is too generous. I don't want to shake people up too much when I deliver scientific and mathematical facts that are counterintuitive but 100% true. But here it is.

Bitcoin actually has a present value of $0. It's just that the market has deluded itself temporarily. Taleb  (https://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/BTC-QF.pdf)and I have proven this with 100% certainty.

1. If enough miners don't mine, then bitcoin's value will be $0.
2. When all bitcoin are mined, then miners will only earn transactions fees.
3. Transactions fees are not enough to keep miners mining.
4. Therefore, in the future bitcoin's value will be $0.
5. If there's a even a small constant probability that bitcoin will be worth $0 in the future, then it's present value must be $0.
6. There is at least small constant probability that bitcoin will be worth $0 in the future.
7. Therefore, bitcoin's present value must be $0.
8. If something's present value must be $0, but it's trading at >$0, then the market is delayed in knowing the truth.
9. If the market is delayed in knowing the truth, and the truth is the asset must be worth $0, then you should take a highly leveraged short position to maximize profit.

Beautiful. Elegant. True.

But, there'll always be miners, don't you get that? Even if the coinbase reward becomes zero or approaches zero, the security of the network will probably decrease overtime, but mining will always be a profitable procedure.

And who are you to state that they're not enough? Who are you to define what's enough and what's not? I'm pretty sure that the transaction fees will always cover a part of the miner's profit. Can you prove otherwise? Can you provide me a proof where there'll never be miners with profits in the future?

Completely false thought. Now it is useful. Now it's secure. Now it's a thing used by the whole world. Now! If it'll ever stop being useful, secure and used in the future, then it should stop being valuable, but you cannot deny the fact that it's demanded right now and thus, valuated. You shouldn't be following the law of iterated expectations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_total_expectation) blindly.

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As for the paper: Replying to Taleb's: “Bitcoin, Currencies, and Fragility” (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5351049.0)
And: Bitcoin Black Paper (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5347343)

When miners do not mine but people still keep on buying that means price is still not 0. Price technically could never be zero because I am willing to pay 21 million dollars to buy 21 million coins (or 1$ for whatever amount we have at that moment) which makes it MINIMUM 1$. Just this example alone proves you are wrong, something as simple as this proving you wrong requires no other answer but lets move on anyway. 2 is okay, not a problem so why you mentioned it I have no idea. 3 is wrong, why not?

It is more than enough, who are you to judge their income being enough or not for them? 4 suddenly collapses because 3 did. 5 is just assumption and not scientific. 6 again assumption, not scientific. 7 same. 8 based on previous assumptions. 9 same. So as you can see none of this is scientific, you probably have zero idea what the word scientific means.

Are you a living meme or wanting to be one? Making these types of claims I can only think of a troll / meme account posting it and has been proved wrong multiple times as a couple of other members have pointed out why do you continue to make these ludicrous claims?

Anyone taking that 10:1 leveraged position about 3 days ago should probably have crashed and burned by now, OP do you feel bad people who get trolled also lose money or is this a "you get what you deserve" lesson and I'm going to get learned when Bitcoin goes to 0?

*chomping down on the bit at 2 days left to stay above $30k*

You do realize that won't happen for another hundred years, don't you?


It's just your opinion. No evidence supports your claim.


The slippery slope logical fallacy.

Love it haha. You just "proved" that nothing has any value! It's fun to see how absurd conclusions can be logically made when you just insert a single false premise or false fact! This (I'm assuming sarcastic comment of yours) is a great example of being careful in drawing conclusions if your premises & every step of your logic aren't completely solid. Reminds me of the 1+1 =/= 2 "proof" haha.



In this case, if there are any total noobs here taking proudhon's comment seriously, the obviously false step there is the premise that Bitcoin will be $0 if there aren't enough miners - for you noobs out there, this is false because Bitcoin's difficulty adjusts according to the mining hashrate so there is never a scenario in which "enough miners don't mine". All that would happen if miners drop out is that Bitcoin would be less secure, and as we've seen from every single other PoW coin which are all far and away less secure than Bitcoin, they still have value, hence fewer miners doesn't equal $0 value. We also just saw a mass drop of miners as the hashrate plummeted over 50% as China banned mining, and while that caused the market to sell off (probably partially panic selling and partially Chinese miners liquidating all their holdings as Bitcoin is effectively banned in China now), it didn't actually do anything detrimental to Bitcoin other than slow down transactions for a bit.

Furthermore, since the halving gradually moves miners to a system of more and more of the reward based only on transactions fees, there is no cliff at which suddenly many miners will drop out, the reward of bitcoin will decrease over many decades as the price rises enormously over many decades. The whole system was specifically designed to not allow proudhon's argument to happen.

Eventually there will be many thousands of cheap transactions taking place off-chain (third party / second layer txs on a many-to-1 basis, which already happens but will increase greatly in the future to allow Bitcoin to scale to global usage) for every one expensive on-chain transaction, thus keeping the cost per tx low while keeping the strong economic incentive to keep the blockchain security high. Bitcoin is ultimately the settlement layer for a much higher velocity structure of networks operating on it, just like other monetary networks already work - secure slower base layer and cheap faster layers that plug into it. The non-rich will just transact in bitcoin cheaply off-chain and the occasional on-chain transaction may be hundreds of dollars but that'll be spread over so many off-chain transactions that the real price of transacting in bitcoin will be pennies. Thus miners continue to make plenty of money, even when the reward moves from a few satoshis to no reward, the difference of a few satoshi's will be nothing compared to how much is being made through transaction fees. So the switch from primarily reward to primarily tx fees takes place over many decades and the reward stopping in the future is not an argument for bitcoin doom or a low or zero price. Logic is fun but you have to not use false premises!

To show some Math for anybody who actually thinks the eventual end of mining will be bad:
Today tx fees are roughly $3/tx, and roughly 300k txs daily, with 900 BTC reward daily:
    $3 x 300,000 + 900 x $40,000 = ~$37 million a day for miners.
So imagine in 120 years or so when there is no mining reward, and thousands of transactions are done per second on 2nd layers and third party networks which occasionally hit the blockchain, assuming there are no block size increases let's keep the daily tx amount at 300,000, but let's say 4000 txs happen for every single on-chain transaction (easily doable between LN and off-chain financial company networks while still keeping the transactions not far removed from the bitcoin blockchain), and the tx fee average is $200, thus effectively making off-chain transactions cost 5 cents (far cheaper than today's credit cards fees):
    300,000 x $200 = $60 million a day for miners
That's almost double the current income in which we already have a globally secure blockchain and highly prosperous mining sector, despite coming entirely from tx fees. Sure, most txs will take place off chain, on-chain will be for moving lots of money around, it'll never be for spending, but that's simply the nature of bitcoin, and it's perfectly fine, all technologies are built in layers that focus on only doing a subset of the desired feature-set very well, so that when stacked together the entire feature-set works great.

So we got over 30k on July 21 about 2 Am EST

it is now July 30th 9 AM

So you need a tank job today or early sat for this to still be working.

I count 17 hours and this will become a worthless thread that math and science has proven it to be wrong.

but to be fair you have 17 hours for a crash to keep it true.




up date

tick tock 5 hours and this thread is dead.

But wait! There's more! (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5340851.0)

So you were wrong about this and are moving the goalposts. I suppose you have a $40k thread queued up for when that one fails?

We all know how the market moves, he can create another thread that says Bitcoin will not be able to stay above $40k for 10 consecutive days ever again or $50, the guy is a big joke but we love mocking guys who believe the other way on what we believe in. I don't believe he is wishing the market to crash so he can post something like this.

Well it is entertaining.  This thread is dead as we did do 10 + Days.

I am looking for his 35k thread as  it may die on Aug 4 at 10am

We will see more threads from proudhon such as "Bitcoin will not be able to stay above $100k for 10 consecutive days ever again" or "Bitcoin will not be able to stay above $150k for 10 consecutive days ever again"...blah blah next year ha ha... :) :) :)

Ah well. I actually did think this prediction had an outsider chance of coming true after yesterday's slip but then the weekend bulls came out, as they did last weekend. No harm, though, right OP? Gives you an opportunity for another thread. Might have to be above 45k by tomorrow hm?

I do hope that he/she does because I feel like having a running gag in this forum is pretty good. I do hope that that time does happen that @proudhon would be stoic on his/her claims that the bitcoin price at X isn't going to stay for 10 consecutive days. Has he/she replied on this site thread though?

The ongoing speculation after this thread going dead is the Bitcoin will not be able to stay above $40k for 10 consecutive days ever again (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5352160.msg57588022#msg57588022). Now people might've started to make calculations and count the days to make the thread dead again.

Can we just help OP out and say now the new title will be "Not above $35k for 10 consecutive days as of August 2 server time"?

He has a great help too because BTC is in the midst of a dip right now and it's already below $40k. Maybe this one he has a chance of winning?

I am pretty much sure he is being sarcastic or just trolling. Look at his signature. It says that bitcoin price can't sustain above $10,000 USD and its a scientific fact. Lol, what? Sure, you have your opinion, but back up with something believable. Just saying "scientific fact" won't give you are credibility.
And why do you think that? Based on what? Just some random prediction with no base? We already saw the price go above $40,000 USD a day or two ago.

I am pretty sure that you would probably have a different opinion too when it the current market situation didn't happen I promise. Also, how can you be so sure that bitcoin is going to stay that way until the end of the year, it seems impossible to happen to me unless you have some proofs on you.

I think he doesn't have any concrete analysis for a $35k-$40k vulnerability until the end of the year although BTC current movement is below $40k, we can freely speculate but to hold on to $40k until the end of the year, it may not be convincing because many moments will surprise the market in the following month.

I think it looks like a bull market will increase BTC around the $40k level. It could also reach territory above $42k. If it does, it could hit $50K in the near future. Bitcoin price will continue to rise in the near future. Investing in the volatile crypto market can be a daunting task that becomes increasingly difficult for novice traders.

Now the bull run begins, it's directed towards the value of 48k dollars. Just hold your bitcoin. The miracle will happened in a short period. Now the month is August and it's third quarter of the year. So we can expected huge in a short period. Holding at the right time essential to get profit.

I hate to see a good thread die, persistence of vision and commitment to an idea however much it might need to be modified or corrected is something I admire.

We're well above 30k now for over 10 days but resolutely watching for a sell is always reasonable if patient enough to match the mood changing.  Right this moment we've maintained a good daily trend channel (https://talkimg.com/images/2023/06/12/Af9rJ.png) Aug 7th-, regular gains that sell but make new highs afterwards is bullish.    I do think we're slowing but its hard to call anything as negative while we remain in a good trend up.   The idea of 30k ranks pretty low in this moment, lets see after we show any weakness or break trend.   Most obviously would be to close under the 200 day average which is rising.


Not sure I would even disagree with him, in the desert a bar of gold is something I'd drop as its useless and worthless to me.   I need water and a way to find shelter etc.    He can argue for zero worth on every commodity ever traded, oil weeps through the ground in many parts of the world and ruins land for growing crops its worthless to these people a curse.   Its also highly valuable in other circumstances and unique in its properties.  What are we even arguing over here as clearly Bitcoin has its uses for some people some of the time so it'll always have a market price.

I have invested in drilling companies trying to make profitable assets of oil weeps, they have tried and failed due to uneconomical geology; a venture wont always work out.  The oil remained worthless, I can well believe BTC is worthless in the hands of some yet the market remains valid while others do find utility in its use.