Bitcoin Forum

I just read in a news that ASI president Rich Checkan said CBDCs were concocted in hell by Satan himself. Although, he has a good reason for saying this, it is distinctly obvious that CBDC transactions will be transparent in a way government can know how citizens are depositing and withdraw funds, it will even be worse if compared to fiat in relation to privacy. For privacy reasons, decentralized currencies like Bitcoin evolved to make privacy possible, Bitcoin gives freedom in a way your money (bitcoin) can not be monitored by the government, that void of privacy which could be horrible.

Bitcoin was compared to gold while Bitcoin is said to still be a speculative asset, gold that has been existing for long as a store of value. But Bitcoin adoption is increasing, the institutions that are offering their clients Bitcoin are increasing. Jamie Dimon, the Chief Executive Officer of JPMorgan Chase called Bitcoin a fraud in the past, but JPMorgan Chase are now offering Bitcoin to a range of clients. Although, if Bitcoin is still classified as a speculative asset, the institutions are investing in it because they know it will later certainly be a store of value.

It is said that the central banks are nervous about Bitcoin to be used as a currency but just as a store of value like gold and silver. That if Bitcoin is emerging as a currency, going mainstream and people using it as direct payment, this can still lead to governments trying all possible means to intervene which can be the biggest issue and threat towards Bitcoin adoption. That governments power and influence over their people are their currency, and government will not want to lose the control.

Is Bitcoin still yet a speculative asset or a store of value? I think people will have different opinions about this.
Also bitcoin high transaction fee, is it not related to this? Because the lower the fee the more Bitcoin will fit into the currency category.

The interview was quite interesting: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VUvp9X8UTws&feature=youtu.be
https://www.kitco.com/news/2021-07-27/-Central-bank-digital-currencies-were-concocted-in-hell-by-Satan-himself-Rich-Checkan.html

It's a bit annoying but I still believe that it is a combination of both speculative asset and currency, because I believe that it can do the work of those two, I mean Laszlo has used bitcoin for two pizzas right so I don't think that we can't discount the fact that it can be used like a currency entirely.

Bitcoin has actually been accepted and used as an alternative means of payment in several companies or services. That is, bitcoin is in accordance with its purpose written in the whitepaper. But I somewhat agree that for now bitcoin is only a speculative asset for residents in countries that do not allow bitcoin as a means of payment.

For those who hold bitcoins, it should not be considered the same that they are investing (speculative assets). Let's say a company keeps bitcoin as liquidity for its services in the future while waiting for the government's decision on legality.

CBDCs will be of great benefit to countries, as monitoring and controlling money and therefore individuals will be very easy, but the problem lies in reducing the size of banks, which is something that most countries do not like now.

As for the reason why JPMorgan increased their activity in Bitcoin, it is that customers want it, not the bank, and therefore Bitcoin is still classified as a speculative asset and not a currency.

If people use it as a currency rather than trading it, it becomes a currency.

Since people trade it more than using it as a currency, it is more like a speculative asset lately.

Most people I know don't want to know about bitcoin's use cases. They just want to get rich.

Sad, but it's true. They come with the aim of making money from Bitcoin which is nothing but speculation. Bitcoin is popular because many people think this is the fastest medium to earn money from home without the need for hard work, without the need to leave the house. A package along with a pandemic that limits our activities.
Even so, with new people getting to know Bitcoin, Bitcoin's existence is increasingly mainstream and easy to recognize.

bitcoin is both.
it is designed to be a currency and eventually it will be used as a currency but since it is being adopted and the price keeps on rising with big percentage gains guaranteed it will also be treated as a speculative asset. interesting thing is that whenever the price is rising people tend to use it as a currency more too. it probably has something to do with not wanting to sell but at the same time wanting to enjoy the gains.

transaction fees will surely play an important role in all this but they are very low at 1 satoshi/byte most of the times. also imagine if you had bought bitcoin at $30k when the recent discount was given, do you care if you pay $5 fee when the price of bitcoin reaches $300k in a couple of months? the 10x purchase power increase makes it so that nobody would care.

there is nothing wrong if it is currently referred to as a speculative asset. Because considering we all have made the price of Bitcoin vary from time to time. It is so often juxtaposed with the manipulation of prices by the pope-adjusted on-demand.
As for the relationship with the CBDC which is often implicated, it is very clear that the government is using the same control pattern that Bitcoin does not have. In simple terms, the government wants to know how much finance it has, then uses it as a reference as tax data.

Its a speculative asset because unlike gold, bitcoin's price is not stable and cant be considered as store as value asset. Some older folks are investing in gold to save the value of their money against inflation while most people are investing in bitcoin to increase the value of the money because its pretty speculative


One of the requirement that a currency need to have is to maintain the value stability. In this case, if I pay 0.001 bitcoin then I'd expect the value will stay the same but you know how volatile it is with bitcoin. 0.001 bitcoin today will have a different value in a week or so and it cant fit the requirement to be a currency

Even the El Salvadorans are protesting about it after their country made it as one of the legal tender

In my view, Bitcoin is a speculative asset as well as a currency, directly Bitcoin is both.  you can make transactions with Bitcoin wherever you are, and you can hold your BTC in the long term until the price goes up.  you are free to make your Bitcoin in the form of assets or currencies.

Bitcoin can be used as both an asset and currency, and it has two properties at the same time.
As an asset

• Bitcoin is volatile and its price is unstable. If you use Bitcoin to buy goods, sometimes the price fluctuations may exceed the price of the goods themselves, and this situation cannot be used as currency for payment.
• The total amount of Bitcoin is fixed and will not be issued at will. When the demand for Bitcoin increases, its price will show an upward trend, and investment in Bitcoin will gain more benefits.

As currency
In some places, Bitcoin is allowed for daily payments, and even countries such as El Salvador use Bitcoin as legal tender.

At first bitcoin was intended as a means of payment, but over time until now, bitcoin is more inclined to assets and trading. this is related because many countries have not ratified it and until now have seen the fact that bitcoin has not been effective in its original function, indeed the advantage of cryptocurrency is that it has a limited supply, so that the more someone needs it, the more it can increase the value of its offer, therefore frankly at this time I personally enjoy bitcoin more to make money

because I still can't use Bitcoin for shopping then I think Bitcoin is a speculative asset...

My country's regulation of Bitcoin is that 'you can't pay for anything with btc because the only rupiah is recognized as a means of payment, bitcoin can only be traded like a trading investment asset'

Can it be both because I believe that bitcoin is comprised of factors that is unique to currency and speculative asset. Plus there's nothing wrong with both because it adds some character of some sort to bitcoin being debated whether it's an asset or a currency.

both are functions and benefits that we can get from bitcoin, both as a speculative investment asset and as a digital currency, but as citizens of course we must follow all regulations issued by our country regarding the use of bitcoin, and in my country bitcoin it can only be used as an investment asset and will get punished if you use bitcoin as a currency (a payment/purchase transaction tool), and that's why I personally prefer bitcoin as an investment asset because there are state regulations that I have to follow, but it's different with other people who live in el salvador today, those who live in salvador already have the freedom to use bitcoin both as an investment asset and as a currency because the el salvador government has completely legalized cryptocurrency in their country.

Yes opinions will be diversed. This question has been asked in different ways since inception of bitcoin. The purpose of bitcoin is being achieved in the both questions. We need to remember that bitcoin is freedom and as that, it works in the financial system to leverage on the loopholes on fiat. Fiat is more of straight kind of legal tender which bitcoin has not totally attain and or maybe not but it will keep operating as both speculative asset and store of value.

It operates as speculatory because it is staked and traded but the difference is that it is not regulated, this is what also gives it the store of value status just like gold.

I don't know much about CBDCs at all, but I'm pretty sure they're not going to be a good thing for anyone other than banks and governments.

With respect to the question above, this has been asked and discussed so many times on the forum that it probably doesn't warrant another thread.  You're correct that people have all sorts of opinions as to whether bitcoin is a store of value, a currency, an instrument of speculation, or whatever--and the truth is that it's all of these things (which is why it's kind of silly to even argue about it).  However, as far as the store of value function, I'm not quite sure how good bitcoin is in that respect--but only because of its notorious volatility.  It's certainly not a safe-haven asset like gold or silver are, but it can be used to store value.  The problem is whether the value is going to drop by 30% overnight or go to the moon.  Bitcoin has a tendency to go crazy in both directions from time to time.

A long standing discussion yes indeed. The original idea behind bitcoin was to use it as a means for transactions, peer to peer, not fully anonymous but not fully named, uncontrollable and unstoppable. After a few considerations, the community did not reach an agreement so some bitcoin forks occurred, namely bitcoin cash being the most notable and oriented to a lower fee, making it similar to a currency.

As for bitcoin, there are two main reasons to consider it a store of value. Firstly, it is a fact that the amount that is traded is low in comparison with the stores. Secondly, the blocksize is limited so in case too many transactions occur, it actuates as self-regulating brake.

Bitcoin is originally meant to be a permanent replacement to fiat currency, but since people found profit in investing and holding bitcoins nowadays, it worked best as a speculative asset.  Still, I believe that the moment bitcoin's volatility and high processing time and fees are solved, which is very possible in the near future considering technology advances exponentially, we could see bitcoin acting more in line with its intended purpose. But as of now, I think it's all okay that it's used by millions around the world to get by amidst this pesky pandemic situation. Agreeing with you on this. Bitcoin is pretty much offering the best of both worlds, offering limitless transactions across the planet, and some form of profitability too to those who see it as an investment venture. We also couldn't deny the fact that even now, there are multitudes of bitcoin holders who both use it as an online currency, and as a way to earn money too.

This is a lingering question and it is hard to choose one primarily because Bitcoin functions as both. As a matter of fact, in addition, we cannot deny that even though it is seldom used it is also functioning as a currency right at this very moment, a legal tender even in a sovereign country starting September 8 this year. But people are also speculating on Bitcoin at the same time. Not only are they keeping their wealth on Bitcoin, they are also looking forward to capital gains. So I guess it is not either of the two but all of the above.

Bitcoin can be used as an asset and currency at the same time. Bitcoin was first issued as a currency, but due to the high price volatility, it is more suitable as an asset storage. Investing in Bitcoin and holding it for a long time can make a profit. With the strengthening of Bitcoin consensus, more people like to invest in Bitcoin to make money.
But now some areas also allow bitcoin payment and use Bitcoin as currency. Some countries also use it as legal currency or use bitcoin to pay employees' salaries.

I think this is the truth. Bitcoin has been used as both, Investors will always do whatever seems right for them at any particular time. Since there are avenues to spend it as a currency, some will do this and even those same investors can still hold it as a speculative asset which I believe most are doing.

To my mind, nowadays Bitcoin is considered to be a speculative asset rather than a means of payment. People buy it to earn money, but not to pay for services or ghosts. Moreover, it is not allowed in the majority of countries. But, in my opinion, we will use Bitcoin to pay within time. Even now different companies (Tesla, Amazon) think about it, and countries (Solvador) accept it as the national.

People use big mac prices (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Mac_Index) to measure purchasing power in different countries. So is big mac food or an index?

Everyone find it individual. Someone find Bitcoin as a technology, some as a anonymous payment and some as an easy way to get rich. As Bitcoin price grows, I think that for most this is clearly a speculative asset. Even if they could use it for daily purchases, people will still prefer to hold. All these "stories of success" converted Bitcoin as a speculative asset and even if one day it turns into a currency, people wont use it, because they "heard that once a guy has bought Bitcoin for $1 and sold it for $60k."

Bitcoin is both and there's nothing wrong with that.Most speculative assets are a store of value as well.
The transaction fees depend on the transaction volume.If the blockchain gets congested with many transactions,the fees will go up.We can't control this process and artificially lower the transaction fees.
Off chain solutions like Lightning Network will provide a way to keep the blockchain free from being stuck.
The governments will always want to reduce our privacy,but there are still ways to keep our wealth private.
 

If the cost is high, do you think people will spend $5 on something worth $1?
When Bitcoin transaction fees are reduced or there are no transaction fees, everyone can use Bitcoin to pay. At this time, it means that Bitcoin is a currency.
But there will also be people who have been holding Bitcoin, waiting for the price of Bitcoin to rise. I think there are more people holding Bitcoin.

Why should this be annoying to you if this is standard practice with all other Fiat currencies? Let's take the US Dollar (Currency) as an example...

When you withdraw US Dollars from a ATM, you use those dollar bills as a currency, because you give those Dollar bills as a payment option for goods and services. (The same thing apply to Bitcoin when you pay with bitcoins for the same products or services)

Now, the same Dollars can be traded for other currencies, which is Foreign Exchange (forex or FX) trading ..... and with Bitcoin, people trade for Alt coins or Fiat currencies on a Crypto currency exchange. (Commodities)  ;)

There is no difference... and no reason to be annoyed. The Governments just define Bitcoin as a asset or a commodity, because they do not want competition for their reserve (local) currency.  ;)

Bitcoin price volatility can make some people sell at low price, if the price increases, it will retrace back but not to the low price, some people make use of the opportunity as they understand about price volatility very well, allso knowing that bitcoin price still increase after several volatilities. Even if the price do not increase to $64000 (all-time-high) for now, I believe some whales and institutions and ready to make people fomo during the next halving, while people fomo normally at the time. These will still make the price to go further and reach all-time-high, provided if all-time-high is not attained until then. As deflationary Bitcoin might be, it is true to be considered as both store of value and a speculative asset, I was surprised to see the price decreased from above $40000 to $31000 within hours during the China FUD, but all-time-high is still very certain.

Of course, holding bitcoin for long term to make a profit, for me bitcoin is a very good asset because it has been proven to get big profits, if transactions to send and receive money, of course using stable coins (USDT) or other payment systems are safer.

i wont say usdt is a safer alternative for btc but other cryptos maybe tho we arent talking if which currency is safe for transactions but its all about their fees .
 i think stable coins like usdt has a higher fees either and they can be higher than btc so i would still go for btc but when i purchase i make sure that the item that i will buy is higher than the fee that im going to pay so that it will make a sense .

The sentences seem to contradict each other.
It's a currency, no doubt. You use it for payment then it means it is a currency.
It became an asset when investors saw a possibility for demands to go higher but at the end of the day, it will, and will always be a currency.

Right now, we can stay on keeping it as an asset because the future is unknown. Although I am still optimistic there will be a change someday even with different cryptocurrencies popping out of the blue.

utility for payment not adopted yet now around the world , and most investors thinking bitcoin as assets to hold for gaining profits in several months or year . Several super power countries haven't allow it yet to set as currency or investment portofolio, but giant company already realize bitcoin as future technology in payment system , even Paypal CEO said about it.

i think we have double benefits in  bitcoin , first as investment portofolio and in the same time it accepted as payment system. Payment and currency was totally different , we could not generalize it.

I think bitcoin will be like that for some time but bitcoin can be used as payment. Not many people will be comfortable using bitcoin to pay for something at the store. Besides that, not many local stores are available in one country that accepts bitcoin as the payment option besides of use fiat money.

So I think bitcoin still be an investment because the price is too volatile to be used as a payment system. Maybe for the next few years, bitcoin will still be an investment for people to make money from bitcoin and save bitcoin for their future.

Valid point.

Bitcoin is both a currency and a speculative asset. Bitcoin is really intended to be used upon transactions, only that it is decentralized. However, due to limited available counter and establishments that accept bitcoin as a payment method, bitcoin as a currency is seldom recognized. Although there are a lot of companies now that has open their doors to bitcoin adoption, we still need more to be able to fully utilize it in transactions. The processing fee and transaction fees need to be improved as well. Higher fees and slow processing time of each transaction hinder the users to transact using bitcoin. Meanwhile, bitcoin's volatility makes it a good speculative asset that is why most people invest on it nowadays. Bitcoin provides more opportunities to gain profit in short term and long term. It's just up for the people to decide which they will do.

The price of Bitcoin is unstable and volatile. Many people like to use it as an investment currency. Buying and holding Bitcoin for a long time can get a lot of benefits.
There are also many regions that allow and support bitcoin payment, which can be used as currency to buy or transaction.

Yeah people go on it just because the possibilities to earn and only few use it as a currency, we know how volatile it is that's why people have split thought's regarding on this but let see how we can define it on future since for now whatever you believe what it is then let it be since there's no right or wrong answer with this. But hopefully we see more adoption so that we can establish bitcoin as currency and not a investment option for others.

I guess you're confused with how currency works.
Bitcoin is called cryptoCURRENCY because it is a currency.
If it is accepted as a means of payment, that means it's a currency.
Bitcoin hasn't been usually used as a currency because of it's volatility. Instead it has been used as a store of value and a speculative asset.
Though there are people who are actually using Bitcoin as a currency in a daily basis.

That means that it's a bit of both speculative and currency. I think it's a bit of both too because it's been used for buying stuff in the past so I don't think that it could go one way. But for now, I feel like speculative asset is what's dominating in terms of our definition of bitcoin.

I am afraid I disagree that Bitcoin is an anonymous currency and the government can’t monitor it. All your transactions are placed in the blockchain, so everything is clear. Especially if you interact with centralised exchanges, they can trace how your money moves and then connect your address with your identity. Nowadays the only private crypto is Monero.

You are right that the government doesn’t want to lose its authority, so they want to replace crypto currencies by creating digital state currencies. I don't believe in any digital state currencies. They will still be regulated by the government. The main feature of digital money is decentralisation and uncontrollability from authorities, but digital euros, rubles, yuan will be under control, so it is the same as just non-cash money but on blockchain instead of bank account.

and in the end the crypto money is converted to fiat currency, and in the exchange there is the identity of the user, so it is clear to whom the money is spinning. I think this is just an alibi or a political game, but what is certain now is that bitcoin functions more effectively as a trading tool or a profitable investment tool.

In fact, no government anywhere is happy if its power is limited, let alone hampered.  Not only Crypto will make it difficult for a centralized government, Fiat in other countries is not easy to become legal fiat for a country.  For example, Indonesia does not recognize other currencies as a means of transaction, only Rupiah and the only legal currency.  Even if you bring thousands of dollars it is not legal to transact in Indonesia. You have to change ur dollar first.

With blockchain technology I think all transactions are clear and transparent,
Of course, this kind of thing is not owned by Traditional Banks,
so we don't have to worry too much and that helps a lot

Nobody mentioned Bitcoin as an anonymous currency, Bitcoin can be used by experienced users and maintain high privacy level, but it is not an anonymous currency. Coins like Monero are regarded as anonymous currency because their transactions are not transparent, no open ledger available for such anonymous cryptocurrencies unlike Bitcoin, so Bitcoin is not anonymous as it's transactions is visible on blockchain and can be seen by blockchain obeservers.

Not your key not your coin, centralized services like centralized exchanges does not only make you not to have privacy, it makes you not to have the total control over your funds. To have the freedom, you needed to go for noncustodial wallet. And not only that, you will need to monitor your inputs and outputs, making use of mixers and CoinJoin when necessary while ricochet is also important after CoinJoin to make transactions no tainted as illegal when making use of centralized service like during purchase.

There is no single answer to this question. To whom? Investors, banks, the government - Bitcoin is an asset to them, they want it to be and they fear it becoming a widely used currency, thus, they collaborate and try to offer a misleading alternative - digital currencies, like Yuan.

For most people, it’s something in between. They want to make transactions without being traced, but, at the same time, accumulate Bitcoin and subconsciously wish for the price to grow to make a profit.

Currently BTC is being taken as a currency in some countries, "El Salvador" is one of the countries with the highest adoption by BTC, and it is incredible that a country like "El Salvador" before Europe and North America have that concept However, BTC is a currency that has a lot of speculation in the market, I think that now apart from "El Salvador" Paraguay is going to join the party of the adoption of BTC as a currency, if this happens it will not only be an instrument of speculation in the market will be taken into account as it always should be, a leading currency worldwide.

Venezuela is a country that despite all its unsustainable problems of all kinds, has not taken BTC into account as official currency, but the same government uses BTC for its international transactions to bypass the prohibitions with the USA, this is a clear example that There are already countries using BTC as a currency even above the dollar.

Bitcoin is no longer a speculative asset as described by governments that have banned it, such as China, India, among others, in order to convince their population not to trust it.
But as large, recognized institutions and entrepreneurs have invested in bitcoin, they have broken that paradigm. There are advantages to investing in bitcoin and they cannot be covered with a finger, it represents the backing of the investments.

Undoubtedly those who are investing large amounts of money in bitcoin know that it is a store of value.
Bitcoin is disrupting money and the way to a great ecosystem that has been created with cryptocurrencies, better finances are being created every day thanks to this change in technologies.

It is not "something in between". Bitcoin is suitable for most purposes. BTW, even the US Dollar can be used for investment purposes. Trillions of USD worth of treasury notes and bonds have been issued by the US government. And these bonds/notes are essentially US Dollar which is used for investment purposes. Regarding Bitcoin, it was originally designed as a currency. But nowadays, it is used for multiple purposes - for making payments, as a store of value, and finally as a speculative investment asset.

Well, you can answer it based on your standings, remember that it's alright to have a diverse answer to promote a healthy discussion because it helps us see differing perspective. For me, a normal person, I see it as both, it can be an asset that grows overtime and I can invest in it and I also see it as a currency because it's been used before and I've used it myself.

Both, probably.

You ask someone in the first world that is middle/high income, they'll treat it as a speculative asset because they don't believe Bitcoin has intrinsic value. To be fair, there is no intrinsic value of Bitcoin, but neither is any other currency that isn't backed by a gold standard. But, take away the stable currency that people rely on to accumulate their wealth, for whatever reason, be it inflation, political battles, war, whatever - does Bitcoin act as a currency then? When your traditional currencies fail? Yes.

It may not matter much, but afaik they offer Bitcoin fund and Bitcoin related derivative products, not actual bitcoin.



The question is important and the answer is not easy, not yet. With the wide (wild) price fluctuations it's still risky - at least for short term - to see bitcoin as store of value. Of course, in time the price change should get somewhere near to gold (i.e. boring) and then we can say loudly that we have a store of value. Until then it's still more a speculative asset than a store of value. Still, at various degrees, it's both.



Imho tx fees are not rising based on normal day by day use of average Joe, they rise basically when traders get woken up. When price fluctuations will be boring, this will not happen anymore and we will see if we have a problem with high tx fees.



Actually most people don't even know good enough what bitcoin is. They've heard about its price. And then they'll probably answer "speculative asset". But as said, you better answer what it is for you.
And yeah, bitcoin is traceable unless you mix/coinjoin...

Physically, there are still some properties bitcoin need to exhibit before it can fully be regarded as currency.
Bitcoin might be divisible, value, exchange between parties and spend within or anywhere in the world but if we want bitcoin to be used as currency, we should try and consider other part of the world who doesn't have the ability to get some due to their current situation such as access to internet, education and knowledge about the whole thing and money.
Some people knows fiat as money because they used it everyday but if you asked them more about money, they know nothing about it. Now tell me, how do you plan to implement bitcoin on those areas? It will be so difficult to used by everyone.

Now Bitcoin is getting more and more monetization, because the lightning network, Bitcoin can also propose tips, and countries are considering setting the Bitcoin to a statutory currency.
But now Bitcoin is used for investment, I don't want to pay with Bitcoin, I believe that the value of Bitcoin is getting higher and higher.

More of a speculative asset, institutions are investing in bitcoin for that reason, they might adopt, but maybe later when bitcoin is less volatile. As we can see, the market is very volatile and it's not free from manipulation, in fact, the manipulation is rampant as people are less educated about the real purpose of crypto, so it cannot be an effective currency if it's so volatile.

If you are commenting about how Bitcoin can be migrating from being called speculative asset moving more towards store of value, your post content is very valid, but if you are commenting about how Bitcoin will be an effective currency, then it is not the subject of the matter. The market is very volatile which can even make some people to panic and sell at the wrong time, but Bitcoin can still yet be considered as a store of value if seen from appropriate direction, Bitcoin is always reaching all-time-high is one of the reasons, and it will still reach all-time-high.

Bitcoin can be all (speculative asset or a store of value or a currency).

All currencies can be traded hence being volatile may not disqualify from being a currency.

Speculative asset means highly fluctuating one and bitcoin is already doing that in great manner.

Being used as store of value will be possible if NOT too volatile still if people ignore the volatile nature then bitcoin will remain as preferred store of value as bitcoin always appreciating in long run.

In long run, after bitcoin attaining values in millions then people may start afraid to spend bitcoin for buying their foods and groceries which might be the point where bitcoin will start losing its positions as a currency. But, being speculative asset and store-of-value will continue forever how gold is doing even after 2000 years of running.

Probably neither.

Fact of the matter is that bitcoin is a long term store of value asset due to its disinflationary properties. It might not be a currency in the truest sense, at least not right now, given its long-ish confirmation times.

But certainly it's not just a speculative toy. The short term fluctuations are going to be present, but in the long run, you'll find that BTC preserves value a lot better than fiat or even gold.

For me bitcoin is both because I am holding it for long term as an investment source and also want to use it as a currency when local stores near me start accepting bitcoin and then just by scanning qr code and with LN transactions can be made at ease.But for most of the people at this time bitcoin is being recognised as store of value and asset which can give high profits in the long run but with btc becoming mainstream it will be used as currency.

Don't you find yourself contradicted yourself with above two statements. I cannot agree that bitcoin cannot be either one of speculative asset or currency. It will definitely. Moreover, right now people are making use of bitcoin for both speculative asset and as currency and it is purely depending on how much risk you are ready to take with the bitcoin given that considering the conveniences and advantages provided by bitcoin.

Being used as store of value and asset may lead to mainstream adoption, I agree. But, when bitcoin will be valuing massively then people may not prefer to use it as a currency. So, I am not expecting bitcoin to remain as a currency or will turn as a currency in future.

I see Bitcoin based on my personal perception, for me Bitcoin is more of both
being called a speculative asset is correct because of its volatile nature which makes Bitcoin worthy of being dubbed it

being called a currency is also correct because the country of el salvador has made bitcoin as a legal tender, it means bitcoin is legally called a currency

yeah, some of them use bitcoin as currency. maybe just for people that know each other, than deal to use it as payment method.
most of us just collect and trade when the price is good enough.
and im sure if bitcoin still be good asset as long as it have good demand.

It's more of a speculative asset these days.  Nobody is using it for commerce, people are only interested in the gains from holding it.  And there is a great deal of FOMO driving the speculative frenzy.  Nobody wants to miss out on being a "crypto millionaire."

We have big companies buying Bitcoins for their hedge funds in the recent period, let's not forget that! It's about how someone uses Bitcoin, and I think Bitcoin can be and it is a speculative asset, currency, store of value...
And it's what I see in this thread, many different opinions and different ways of using Bitcoin! So I can't agree with Kyraishi with his "probably neither", it's more like "probably both and a lot more"!

That only counts if enough people believe your statement to be true. You are right in the sense of course that the amount of Bitcoin is truly limited, but the common agreement is what ultimately gives Bitcoin value. I do agree though that from what we know today, Bitcoin is most likely going to be a store of value for the future.

This topic has been up for debate for a while since as to whether the original purpose for the creation of bitcoin is for it to be a currency or an asset as many see it to be today. But truth is the original creator of bitcoin, never intended for it to become a speculative asset as many see it today.

In my opinion, because of the decentralised nature of bitcoin, it was created as an alternative mode or currency that offers its users freedom from the centralised nature of the governments fiat. But as a result of its ever fluctuating value, folks have now turned it to a speculative asset.

As of now, people prefer to HODL their bitcoins rather than use it as a medium of exchange (currency).

Bitcoin is a digital currency, that's a fact. Whether it is popularly used and recognised for that purpose is a question that is everyone's mind. Businesses are beginning to accept bitcoin as a means of payment. But here is the challenge most people that hodl bitcoin do not really buy bitcoin to use as a currency but rather they bought as an investment.

Basically Bitcoin was created to be a digital currency but so far not all countries have legalized Bitcoin as a legal tender,
Bitcoin is currently being used more for investment because of its high value and we can see that it continues to rise every year

Basically Bitcoin was created to be a digital currency but so far not all countries have legalized Bitcoin as a legal tender,
Bitcoin is currently being used more for investment because of its high value and we can see that it continues to rise every year

if the choice is a speculative tool or currency, then honestly I feel that bitcoin is just a speculation tool for me.  I feel how he greatly influences the cryptocurrency market price.  besides that I also don't have enough bitcoins if used for payments, apart from the high fees, the transaction speed is also volatile in price.  it all comes back to us as users who feel it

When it comes to my life in my country, Bitcoin is not a currency currently. Well, it is because Bitcoin is not legal as a currency. But it is legal as a commodity asset. SO, I will rather say that Bitcoin is a digital asset only, but a speculative asset? Well, it may be for people who don't really believe in Bitcoin, so it is based on speculation without any basis.

The use of bitcoin as a digital currency and as a means of saving are quite mutually exclusive concepts in modern conditions. Therefore, if we want bitcoin to become a digital currency in the classical sense of the meaning, then we should forget about the huge volatility and, accordingly, huge profitability, because this should not happen with a currency for mutual settlements. Therefore, we see at this stage that bitcoin is a speculative asset, which in its current state is quite satisfactory for both state authorities and investors. Therefore, even when bitcoin becomes mainstream, I am not sure that it will successfully embody both hypostases. As they say, either this or that.

well that's true, most people buy bitcoin for investment because many people believe bitcoin price will keep increasing. only a handful of people buy bitcoin as a currency because few places accept bitcoin as a means of payment. although they find a place to shop that accepts bitcoin I'm sure they will prefer to pay with cash rather than pay with bitcoin.

I can say most of domain and hosting service sell with bitcoin think that it is fontline "namecheap.com (https://www.namecheap.com)" accepted bitcoin payment and others many site can domain hosting reseller used bitcoin only for the payment, but i hope bitcoin is most investable section invest proper waye in bitcoin so not losses.  Investing in Bitcoin is much more risky if not analyzed. So I think if you want to make a profit you need to do analysis if it is for a long time.

in some official institutions and central banks of many other countries, view cryptocurrencies as speculation.

This digital currency cannot be used as a legal tender, so it is not recognized as an asset. As a currency, crypto clearly has no fundamental value if it cannot be accepted as an official medium of exchange.

As an instrument of speculation, the price can soar indefinitely, but it can also fall freely. This happens because the price is completely dependent on supply and demand in the market. Some well-known investors also provoked them to reap big profits.

but on the contrary, there are also some countries that legalize the use of bitcoin as a legal tender, such as several other countries in South America.

I don’t really think that bitcoin having a high transaction fees has anything to do with it not becoming a currency. It’s not every time that you will see that the fees for the transactions are high. Although a lot of people do think that, because whenever the fees are high people tend to avoid it and make use of other cryptocurrencies with lower fees for transactions.

But, if that was to be the case here, then I believe that a lot of people would have moved on to choose those other cryptocurrencies and start using them for transactions and even start investing in them and put bitcoin out of the number one position but that never happened. We really can’t tell. But there are still lots of people who use bitcoin more than there are those that use altcoins.

It depends on the person, remember that Mr. Lazslo Hanyecz used it as a currency, I think right now it's hard to see that it's a currency because a lot of us are speculating in prices and the prices are far too high to be used as a currency to buy products and sometimes services. When the time comes, we will see to it that bitcoin's going to be on the used for both, just a matter of time.

Yes i agree. Actually transaction fee is not really a problem, however it is one of the problem. Not most of the time that the transaction fee is high, however if the fee is high, of course people will prevent themselves to transact with bitcoin, avoid using it like you say.

And I guess, other reason why people prefer altcoin to bitcoin while using for transaction it might be because altcoin doesn't have high value as bitcoin. It's such a waste if we use bitcoin for transaction, while we can hold it and the price might increase highly later on. Unlike altcoin, that might not have that high value so we can use it freely without having to worry the price might go up and up.

right, time will tell, maybe it is not suitable for use in the current situation and conditions, but the times will continue to advance, so when the time comes, I think it will be suitable to be used as currency. but now it is more suitable for making money because it has the potential to invest in it

Just because the exchange rates are going up every year, we can't assume that Bitcoin is not suitable for usage as a currency. Gold is a perfect example of some asset that has been used as a currency for long. A few decades ago, fiat currency used to be backed up by either gold or silver. And even now, in some cases, gold coins are being used in payments. I am not saying that Bitcoin will rise to that level anytime soon, but it shows that being a speculative asset is not a barrier to being used in payments.

I would say that this topic will stay up for debate for a very long time. The reason for that is that Bitcoin changes over time. On the one hand because of development, on the other hand because of adoption. Both might go hand in hand of course. When Bitcoin was cents and even low in transaction fees, it wasn't really a way to transfer significant value over the internet as it lacked liquidity. It was a real speculative asset back then you could say unless you were willing to only transfer very tiny amounts, like paying a pizza! :P

When Bitcoin increased in price, gained adoption and gained liquidity, it could also be used as a means to transfer value, even huge amounts of value as we know about a couple of transactions of hundreds of millions of dollars for a zero fee I think. Still it was too volatile to act as a currency, but it is getting closer although we are far away from that and nobody knows whether we'll ever get there. It is more likely that another coin will likely fill that function. A coin that is a stable coin but also decentralized, which is possible but much harder to achieve in a reliable and secure way than with centralized stable coins.

Bitcoin is more of a speculative asset than a currency. The speculative feature had provided value to it and caused multiple usage access. One among that is the usage as currency.  Bitcoin in simple is the freedom to own your asset without depending on a third party services. It is also true that the market have reached such a level high through the speculative process. Now this has turned to from speculative growth to influential growth.

Bitcoin has the characteristics of both, which can be both a currency and a speculative asset.
With the use of Bitcoin and the enhancement of its consensus, more and more countries now accept Bitcoin as payment and play the currency function of Bitcoin.
The high price volatility of Bitcoin makes it a high-yield investment product. Bitcoin investors can obtain more benefits when the price rises by holding Bitcoin for a long time.

In our own observations, we can see that bitcoin plays as speculative asset and as a store of value at the same time. Its difference between fiat and CBDCs makes it more likely to be chosen by many people. We usually seek financial freedom and we don't want the government keep on watching the transactions we make and they would take advantage of it. It would be best if we'll encourage others to patronize bitcoin and other crypto more for the offers and the features it has. Also, let us use our crypto responsibly and avoid doing things that will give it a bad impression and reputation.

Bitcoin was originally used as a means of payment, but with the development of time, its price fluctuates greatly and it is more inclined to store assets in value. More than a decade of development of Bitcoin has made its technology more perfect and safer, and many investors in the crypto market choose to invest in Bitcoin. Long-term investment and holding of Bitcoin can obtain higher returns as its price rises.
With increasing awareness of it, bitcoin is now accepted and used as a payment method by many institutions and companies. Some countries even use it as legal tender for daily payments.

I would go with the current reality, it has become a speculative asset rather than a currency. Why? you can obviously see the high price volatility, and that is because people are speculating and they love to trade, we cannot deny that, and the more people will hold, the more the price will be volatile.

I can understand that investors just trying to benefit from the big future success of bitcoin, which is "adoption", but as a result, it makes bitcoin more volatile and unpredictable.

As said above, bitcoin is truly speculative asset than a currency for different reasons. The market is more reactive to speculation made by the influencers. This we can't see with the currency. The markets won't react that easy on someone's words. This makes big money being poured in and taken out as very big money. Here the importance and the core for which the innovation is made gets hidden.

That's a really harsh country that you're living in for them to not allow you to use it as a means to pay for your transaction. In my country though, I don't have to worry too much about it because the laws here are only enforced strictly for about 2 or 3 months and then people forget it and the enforcers don't care so we can use both, that is why I was asking why not both.

Even if it's just a matter of time as to when it becomes suitable or more like generally accepted, we shouldn't be boxed in that one idea that we have to wait when we can use it already like that, what if you contribute to the advocation towards using bitcoin for general transactions since you started early before it was cool/normal? It can be used, didn't Satoshi made bitcoin as a way to pay stuff?

Bitcoins can be used to purchase goods and services, and traded for dollars on web-based exchanges. ... In this paper, I show that the rapid increase and equally-rapid collapse in Bitcoin's price, valuation, and trade volume can be explained by regarding Bitcoin as a speculative asset.

Since BTC just crossed $60k and everyone is hoping for $100k and more in down the line, everyone started to see it as an asset if they buy something now and hold it. Being here for a long time, I too would collect or earn as much as I can via any means available here and would love to hold and see great profit in future. In turn, holding the coin for a long term its self says, its an indirect asset to accumulate and get the revenue.

I would say, crypto currency, has a unique feature unlike fiats that holding the currency with us ourself (in our wallets) will yield a good profit. It will be used as currency and as an asset. Both will happen certainly.

No, I have been watching topic about whether bitcoin is an asset or not for long time like when it was testing $1k for very time itself. I mean testing $60k did not bring the status of being an asset to bitcoins. It has been treated as a digital asset for very long period of time.

Yeah, nothing is going to stop bitcoin being used as currency and asset at a same time. Gold was being used as currency in olden days but now we treat it like an asset as we have something else to transact. Hence, bitcoin may remain as an asset until we find something elses to easier and cheaper transactions.

Do I think all cryptocurrencies will forever be a speculative asset? No. Do I think that Bitcoin itself is currently a speculative asset? A large majority of holders now are currently speculators and it is increasing every day. Bitcoin is very similar to gold in desirability terms, however it has a couple huge advantages - it is extremely liquid and it has a fixed (yet diminishing) supply. As it was first to market, it has captured the attention of almost everyone as the premier cryptocurrency and this will drive it's popularity for at least another few years. After that, we may see more interest developing in other cryptocurrencies which have more original features and also have a much larger supply available, which makes them harder to dominate.

One reason is crypto is decentralized and less regulated, so any manipulation is possible and it's very obvious it's happening. Compared to fiat currency, the performance is definitely on how a nation's economy is doing, with bitcoin, we look forward on the future's adoption but even if it's positive, the price does not positively react to it automatically since it's very unpredictable.

Being unpredictable makes it a speculative asset than a currency, it's very simple to understand, why would an ordinary person use bitcoin for transactions when in an instant the value could drop, and it will lose the value of his/her money.

That's certainly true, mate. Most people are into crypto to make a lot of money, so Bitcoin's main use is more as a speculative asset than anything else. If people used Bitcoin as a unit of account instead of Fiat, things would've been a lot different than what they are right now. Imagine paying directly in Bitcoin without the need to know how much the coin is worth in terms of Fiat. It would enable a truly-decentralized crypto economy just like Satoshi envisioned. Always remember that 1 Bitcoin equals 1 Bitcoin no matter what. If people truly knew the meaning of crypto/Blockchain tech, they wouldn't been relying on Bitcoin as means for profit. Only Fiat's disappearance will make people use Bitcoin as a currency than all the other way around. But we all know this is very unlikely to happen anytime soon. Just my thoughts ;D

"Always remember 1 Bitcoin equals 1 Bitcoin no matter what."  This is an empty platitude that doesn't mean anything.  1 dollar equals 1 dollar no matter what too.  It doesn't have any practical value knowing this.  You need to know the value of money in relation to things you want or need to buy.  Does 1 bitcoin buy a bag of groceries or a car?  Knowing it's worth "1 bitcoin" is meaningless.  Bitcoin is unusable as a currency because no one knows how much it's worth unless they convert it into USD first.

Well said, why everyone is interested in bitcoin is because of its potential dollar value in the future, it's a very successful currency that has grown from almost worthless to the current price, everyone will be interested but it seems like the prediction in the past that 1 BTC could buy a Lambo would be happening in the future.

Before, 1 BTC = grocery items, maybe 5 years from now, 1 BTC = Lambo.

Also, don't forget about the hype, that makes it a speculative asset more.

The pros and cons of crypto currency, bitcoin, are still rolling in when the price is still at a high level and with extreme volatility. The pros claim bitcoin to be the future for international transactions, while the cons are still strong if bitcoin is a speculative item, not even worthy of being called an asset.  ???

You would hope that bitcoin's speculative value is based on bitcoin's future ability to be used as digital currency (as it was created to be used ;-)).
*though there are plenty of speculative "investors" who don't have a basic understanding of what they are investing in (yes tulips, .com and real estate)


It's interesting that you bring up transaction fees:
In 2013 bitcoin was fast and cheap to use and I bought anything I could with it for a few years. When I tried to spend a few hundred dollars worth in 2018 (with a $20 tx fee) it took days.
I've kept a bit of mined coin and leave it but not as a "store of value", for that I think of precious metals and keeping the things I own well maintained.

You can hope that all you want, but it's demonstrably not the case. Almost nobody cares about using it as a currency. People buy it to speculate and try to get rich, and because they have major FOMO when they see others buying it. If it weren't for social media, Bitcoin would still be worthless. And a red flag about its true intrinsic value is that nobody knows what it's worth themselves, they depend on what others think it's worth (or worse yet, the perception of what others think it's worth) to inform their opinion of what they think it's worth.

The scope of the cryptocurrency or cryptocurrency is many, what governments and banks do not accept in general is volatility, in fact some countries are already taken into account as an asset or currency, such as El Salvador, there it is accepted and taken into account as normal currency, so far it has not gone bad.

Of course now the country has some problems of understanding with the World Bank and other organizations that do not accept BTC, but it is not something for which they should allow themselves to be extorted, it is something very normal that now the president of the country must know how to handle, however Other countries have as a project to accept BTC such as Paraguay, Argentina, among others, in the same way BTC represents money, and being money it is something that should be treated with the same importance.

It's all about money these days. As long as Bitcoin continues to go up in price, people will only use it as an investment tool than a currency for day-to-day payments. What's important is that Bitcoin stays true to its roots by being a decentralized and censorship-resistant cryptocurrency. Bitcoin is more than just a store of value. It's a revolution where people can finally gain financial freedom. A currency which is not controlled or owned by the state, brings many benefits to its users. People can rely on Bitcoin as an "escape route" from the current monetary system controlled by central banks and governments alike. But not everyone understands what Bitcoin is all about.

Considering how long people have been relying on Bitcoin as a speculative asset, it seems to me that everything will remain unchanged in the future. I wouldn't worry about this as long as Bitcoin has strong community support. Just my thoughts ;D

You are right, the power that government has over their people is the currency that they are making use of, and they wouldn’t like to lose that power. They are not going to let bitcoin replace the fiat currency we are making use of, since they know very well that they cannot control it (BTC), so they won’t let that happen at all.

I see bitcoin heading towards becoming a store of value mainly, but we are still going to continue making use of it for transactions online just like we do now, it’s going to be for people who wants to make use of it that way.

People who say bitcoin isn't an asset are factually wrong. An asset is literally anything that has value, and there are plenty of non-physical things that have value and are therefore assets.  Intellectual property is a classic example, including patents.  Also, 5G spectrum has no tangible existence and yet the major telecoms are buying swaths of it for billions of dollars, which they then own to build their 5G networks on.  This is another obvious example of a non-tangible asset.  And of course, any crypto- not tangible, has value = is an asset, according to the literal definition of the word.

Unfortunately, the higher the price of bitcoin became, the more solidly it became a speculative financial asset. It can sometimes be used as a means of payment, but in general it is not beneficial for market participants. I do not think that the price of bitcoin will go up indefinitely, as many believe. This is not possible in our material world. However, if the price growth of bitcoin stops, then the cryptocurrency market will change dramatically, and this will be a real shock for him.
States will also strengthen the regulation of cryptocurrency, it is not profitable for them to use it as a means of payment. Already in October, we may see new recommendations from the FATF regarding the regulation of the circulation of cryptocurrency. This could have an impact on bitcoin as well.

Bitcoin is both a speculative asset and a currency. It's the best of both worlds. Most people don't know this, so they rely on Bitcoin only as an investment tool (or speculative asset). They're only in it to make a lot of money, instead of believing in its core technology to change our world for the better. Only a very small minority uses Bitcoin as a currency for day-to-day payments.

Of course, Bitcoin has its limitations. High fees and slow transaction confirmation times makes it a terrible alternative to existing Fiat. But that's not a concern if you care about decentralization and censorship-resistance. Some may say Bitcoin doesn't have intrinsic value because it's "made out of thin air". But that's completely wrong since time and energy is spent in order to generate new Bitcoins. Intangible assets are as valuable as tangible assets, in my own opinion. Consider how your digital data is valuable to companies and governments alike. If there's demand for something, you can expect it to gain value in the long run. With how far Bitcoin has gone since its inception, it's unlikely it'll become worthless in the future. Just my opinion :)

Like other currencies, Bitcoin is a currency that has 3 functions, including as a medium of exchange/payment, store of value and speculation.  So, the currency should have those 3 functions.  Otherwise it can be a speculative asset for what is called currency. But there are many who may think that speculation does not have to be owned by a currency.  Though it is the part of the currency.

We could say Bitcoin is a multi-purpose currency. It's the first of its kind, opening up a world of possibilities. Most people use Bitcoin as a speculative asset since they only care about making money from it. Only a very small minority use it as a currency. Ultimately, it's all about Bitcoin's underlying technology. Blockchain is what'll change our world in many ways that were never imagined. Price per coin doesn't matter if the same is useful. What's important is that Bitcoin stays decentralized and censorship-resistant. As long as it stays that way, there should be nothing to worry about. Just my opinion :)

Bitcoin is a combination of speculative assets and currency.
Now many companies have accepted bitcoin as a payment method, and some countries are gradually accepting it as payment, especially in El Salvador which has already used bitcoin as legal tender.
The original purpose of bitcoin appeared as a payment currency, but with the passage of time and the development of bitcoin, more people realize its value and profitability, and they are more inclined to hold it as a speculative asset for a long time and obtain profits.

It's true, it's also how we use Bitcoin in the past. Pay with Bitcoin in places that accept Bitcoin or hoard it as an investment.
The truth is that many people have gotten rich by hoarding Bitcoins in the past.

agree. maybe some companies want to, or introduce crypto at once. or they want to adapt on small to big scale, and its good.
and there are some companies, can do that and supported by country but prefer to pay with usual method because bitcoin is too valuable.
people will find way to satisfying their desire, developing technology around or developing own needed

The reason is true, but it has nothing to do with the risk of buying at a high price. Currently the price of bitcoin is so high that the price cannot be reached by most people. I'm sure there are many people who want to invest in bitcoin but are financially constrained and they end up only collecting bitcoins from bounties and airdrops.