Bitcoin Forum

One of the key features that keep bimance of the most generally accepted trading platform is their sense of humor, they make review time to time and develop their service for upgrade with unique featires, thou they can charge if you don't mind the consideration compare to others, now another tool was build for third party tax charges having some unique features.


For more details, you can click the link below:

https://decrypt.co/77032/crypto-exchange-binance-launches-tax-reporting-tool?amp=1

This is most likely a service discussion topic, which obviously not belong to this (Trading Discussion) board. I hope you will give a thought to move the topic to the board it deserves.

Seems like Binance want to become the biggest CEX ever by cooperate with many regulations, the third party could ask more KYC of Binance user since in tax reporting they need a lot identity to calculate the correct taxes. I wonder if it's really free to use the tax reporting tool since hiring a reputable accountant to calculate the tax isn't free.

Binance are really going hard with the whole "regulation" thing over the last few days. First they slash non-verified daily withdrawals from 2 BTC to only 0.06 BTC. Then CZ comes out and says he would be happy to step aside for a more "compliance background CEO" to show Binance's commitment to obeying regulations and compliance. And now they say they will start automatically calculating your tax liabilities, and I'll eat my hat if they don't then start sharing that information with various governments and tax agencies around the world.

Binance are obviously trying their hardest to be allowed to maintain and scale up their operations in as many countries as possible. All about the profits. Just a shame that all their users will be the ones paying the price as Binance sells them and their data out to governments and associated agencies. If you got involved in bitcoin because you didn't like the government sticking their nose in to your finances and dictating what and when you were allowed to spend your money on, then it's long past time to abandon Binance.

Binance has been real solid over the years but this year, they got hit pretty hard, enough to make users to start checking either for alternatives or switch to using non-custodial approach whenever they interact with cryptos. Binance seemed like a safe haven for users to escape regulations but not anymore. I reckon that it wouldn't take much longer before they would give in to the pressure from regulatory compliance orgs and government agencies and when that happens, any user still with them with be used as scapegoat. There won't be "SAFU" funds as those might get seized too.

CZ handled binance's operations really well and the fact that he's stepping down only means they're losing the regulation war. It's time to jumpship.

Unique features?
It's just a history of your trade, coinbase had the same thing going for two years, besides, for both you need a second client to calculate your taxes, Binance has Koinly as recommended, Coinbase works best with CoinTracker.


Using their API is free, using the third party calculator isn't that free anymore Cointracker (https://www.cointracker.io/tax/2020/plans), Koinly (https://koinly.io/pricing/).


Your hat it safe! (https://www.binance.com/en/blog/421499824684902301/A-Letter-from-Our-CEO-Reflecting-on-Progress-and-the-Road-Ahead)

If Binance still forcing its members to follow every rule they made, I doubt Binance will still become the biggest exchange because people who do not want to be controlled by any third part will start moves their funds from Binance and search for the other exchange that will not be too strict for them. Binance itself should realize that crypto is about anonymity for its members. Although they can ask their members to verify themselves, it does not mean Binance can force anything on their members.

Oh wow. "Yes, we totally spy on you, use blockchain analysis companies, collect details regarding the source of all your deposits and the destination of all your withdrawals, build up a complete profile against your real name, and share all that with your government, but you must understand that this is all a good thing!"

::)

Actually, I believe they already kind of are the biggest CEX. Minus American customers, there is no other exchange with as deep liquidity as you can find on Binance, and that's just what people put on the orders, I believe Binance themselves are capable of injecting more if they want to step in.

Sooner or later they have to "play fair" about regulations though. It's something unavoidable in this scene.

Centralized exchanges don't care about privacy of customers. They will do anything that is mandatory required by governments. They will implement new policy to meet regulations from governments.

If you use centralized exchanges, you can not require them to protect your privacy. When you submit documents to verify KYC on centralized exchanges, your privacy is broken.

[Tutorial] Crypto taxes for beginners (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5275952)

Of course they can. They have a number of centralized shitcoins under their control, such as BNB and also the BUSD stablecoin. Since these coins are completely centralized, there is nothing stopping them printing more and "injecting" them in to the market if they choose.

It's only unavoidable because the masses are allowing it to happen. No more unverified withdrawals? "OK, well it was good while it lasted." Hand over your details to the government? "Well, even though there is no evidence that KYC prevents money laundering, I guess I'll put up with that too." Utterly ridiculous withdrawal fees? "Well, even though 95% of the fee I am being charged is unnecessary and they are just making pure profit, I'll accept that too."

There are dozens of reasons, any one of which would be enough to make me stop using centralized exchanges. And yet people keep giving their money to these companies which treat them so poorly. And so the cycle continues.

The sad thing is that convenience and user friendliness is considered higher than everything else. And even for me, to be honest, I choose convenience and ease of use rather than a secure p2p trading that still comes with its own risks. I comprehend at least the benefits of trying to choose something that is not a CEX but also for most people, choosing p2p or something decentralized could be more dangerous (like all those guys who get scammed on localbitcoins).

At the end of the day people are willing to pay for convenience and "feeling of safety". This is the problem non-CEX need to overcome.

Convenience I will grant you. Although I would argue onboarding to a new DEX such as LocalCryptos is significantly easier than onboarding to a new CEX such as Binance (literally just make an account versus make an account, hand over all your personal details, upload scans of your documents, take selfies, wait several days for verification, link a bank account, deposit fiat, wait several days for it to clear), when trading fiat/bitcoin pairs then a CEX will always have the upper hand in terms of transaction speed because of the slowness of the fiat banking system. Maybe once CBDCs come along and you can move fiat instantly between users that will change. Bitcoin/altcoin pairs are a different matter and can already be traded instantly on DEXs.

The "feeling of safety" I don't disagree with, but it's worth pointing out that that is very much a feeling as opposed to being grounded in fact. Centralized exchanges have been responsible for far more scams, hacks, thefts, and losses, then DEXs have been. Given that you do not either provide your personal information nor deposit your coins to a good DEX, they are inherently far more secure than a CEX, since there is simply nothing to be hacked or stolen from their platform. If you only choose to trade with trusted users and follow all the recommendations regarding escrows, communication, release of funds, etc., then you chance of being scammed is tiny.

I think this Tax Reporting Tool is only for some countries that are required to submit your taxes.
There are a lot of countries that are supported by Binance or available to use Binance without any issues regarding cryptocurrency issues.

This could be a negative effect for Binance Exchange? Or it is normal?

I think the onboarding process seems easier only to us, just like how using a Bitcoin wallet to sign and choose inputs and select fees seems easy to us... but to most other people, having a mobile app. I think of the exchanges that people use here which is not so much binance but like tokenize or luno which I use, I know most people never heard it but everyone here uses it because it has a license (unlike Binance), an app that can "instant exchange" local payment method to crypto and vice versa in a few taps.

The KYC is linked to bank account so if you already have a bank account you just link and that is your kyc. It's very, very easy and convenient and instant. And it will get even easier between all apps where you can send ppl money and crypto using their phone number, imagine selecting your contact from yr phone to send crypto.

It's not real crypto of course but only people like us know that, but most people don't know and frankly don't care. I tried showing some people what a real Bitcoin wallet should look like and the look on their face is just disgust lol.

Yeah, so when you say it's not "real crypto", I assume you mean you can't actually withdraw the bitcoin from those apps to your own wallet, send them to someone else, spend them, use them, etc? In that case, then you're right - such apps will always be easier and more user friendly than any real bitcoin wallet. If you remove seed phrases, private keys, addresses, transaction signing, and everything else, then all that remains for the app to do is display a balance updated from a centralized server.

If you want to actually own bitcoin and be your own bank, then there is a certain level of technical features that must be present in an app. We can only simplify things so far. I'm not sure how we overcome that hurdle for the most technophobic people in the world.

I think it's quite the opposite and majority of countries have tax on crypto but it's another thing whether you want to risk it and not report crypto tax. It's all fine when you are buying some  things with your crypto profits but the moment you wanna buy something bigger like house, government will start asking questions about origins of money.



I don't think this will affect Binance in any way. Those who don't plan to report tax will ignore this feature, while those that reporting will probably find this helpful. What sucks though is lowering of max daily withdrawal to only 0. 06 BTC to those that haven't gone through KYC, making it basically mandatory to do that.

That's a really useful tool in my opinion although I haven't seen a notification that Binance have added that feature in their app on my phone, I don't have to worry about it though because my country still hasn't take their chances with crypto yet so I don't worry about taxes anytime soon, I just hope that it's not going to be stressful to use because that's the case for tax reporting tools because they want people to spend money on reporting their taxes.

Woof! That's gonna be complicated process because some person can be moving lots of coins here and there on everyday basis. I am not sure how they will be tracking the whole process. Moreover, this is gonna be bad for the Binance itself because many people won't accept the thing that Binance is gonna take the advantage to report the tax liabilities which means it will breach the whole point of Bitcoin Usage - The Data Integrity


Ahh, thats what my point is up there. I hope they do not force every user to do the tax filing through their new launch. They should give options to everyone. But again if this option is made open then very few to no one will accept the tax filing. I always believed that crypto was all about the anonymous nature of transacting but with such hard rules it's all going messy.

Not really an option. If you use Binance, then you should fully expect that Binance will be reporting your taxable activities to your government, who will come knocking at your door soon enough if you haven't paid your taxes. Using centralized exchanges with KYC while evading taxes is a monumentally stupid thing to do.

Sure, you can choose to ignore their new tax reports, but that doesn't mean Binance won't generate them or send then to your government. Especially with new laws being proposed and passed, like the one in the US mandating that all exchanges directly server their customers with the necessary tax forms for completion and filling.

Bitcoin was never primarily about being anonymous, but again, there is no possible way to be anonymous while using centralized exchanges.

Binance could do that if they want even before they implemented this feature, so I don't see that something changed in that regard. None of the people I know that are using Binance changed their mind after this; those that were already reporting taxes will continue to do so, while others that are taking their chances will ignore it and continue with their business as usual. Well, they will ignore it until enough people get rekted by Binance. :D



If we are talking about big amounts I would agree, but people here in Croatia that are not dealing with big amounts are generally willing to risk it. They made it so complicated here to report crypto tax (while tax is not too big, 10%) that people are willing to take their chances rather than go through all that hassle.

Yup, no wallet address, not even blockchain interacting. You can send them to someone else with the same app account, like sending anyone any other "digital money" and even you can send to their phone number, it will credit their account and debit yours. Which is basically how it works for everything there, even "gold" or "silver" which of course aren't real but people think it is, and call themselves gold investors and Bitcoin investors:)

I know it's pointless to explain to them why this isn't going to work long term but I have hopes. I mean now you can use Bitcoin with QR codes and not addresses and set your wallet to auto determine fees. I have seen Ethereum apps that are on chain and off chain mixed... you send ETH but in dollars, and it's instant because it's off chain, and even fees are from a separate balance so you don't confuse yourself with ETH. I think BTC apps if they start to also use Lighting like this, and devs take a page or two from ETH could make it more user friendly. I understand there are security concerns of course but I have hopes things will look better in future.

Provided that they do that. What if the country hasnt have any regulation about crypto during the time this was impelemented. Let say, now in our country there is no clear regulation about taxes. Then they cant impose tax on our earnings and transacted money with crypto during that time right. Like hey, you earned a lot from these years without tax so they will now asked for it now new law implemented. Just asking if this possible.

Then you must have a much nicer tax agency than the IRS. Not only will they come after you for trivial amounts, but they will hit you with big penalties and fines for those trivial amounts.

If people only care about price exposure to bitcoin, and don't actually care about it being decentralized, or trustless, or censorship resistant, or any of the other things that are core to bitcoin, then such easy to use custodial apps will always win. At least, until they scam the people in question or lock them out of their accounts.

No civilised country would pass laws retroactively punishing people, but I also don't know what country you live in. Nothing stopping them passing something similar to a "wealth tax" for your crypto holdings though, which they will receive detailed information of from Binance.

"The law is not retroactive," which means that until the relevant laws are adopted, you should not be held responsible. But in this case, there are generally recognized rules for paying income tax. That is, after receiving a profit, you must declare this income in your annual declaration. And in this, Binance can provide you with significant assistance in calculating this income

Unfortunately this is the fate of all of those centralized institutions, the only other option will be to close the exchange and refuse to comply with the governments and just accept that they had a good run, but we know this is never going to happen, it is obvious that binance wants to maintain its monopoly and they are going to do whatever they can to try to do it, it is understandable and it was easy to foresee that this will happen but obviously I do not agree with it.

So it is about time that every single person that cares about their privacy abandons that exchange and never comes back to it, after all it is not as if the binance exchange is the only one where you can make your trades.

If by nicer you mean way less competent, then you are right, they are very nice indeed.:D  If our tax agency is as efficient and vigilant as IRS, no one would fuck around either, but these are some of the rare perks of living in a less developed and organized country. They will eventually start going after us, that's for sure, but it will take some time before they figure things out.

I think there problem is maybe even more important to think about for Bitcoin, is people still don't know enough to care about these things (decentralized, censorship-resistance etc.). For better or worse, people can't learn about the importance of these things the way they are mainly presented. And they can't because states won't teach them this either.

Custodial apps always win and we seen that even though years of scams and "hacks" have stolen people's money, because they do not know better (and education prevents them from knowing better).

But as you rightly point out, these kind of regulations and tax reporting requirements will come to every centralized exchange sooner or later. Moving from Binance to another CEX is just delaying the inevitable. If you want to avoid this invasion of your privacy, then you need to move to a DEX.

Such things are never discussed in the news sources that the average person reads. It's all "Bitcoin crashes by 20%!", and never "Bitcoin continues to allow transfers of billions of dollars worth which cannot be intercepted or prevented by any person, state, or entity."

Even when they are discussed, they fail to garner as much attention. All the top reads on any media website are the price predictions, without fail. Even if the writer keeps getting it wrong, he keeps his job and continues to write, I guess because in the end, traffic makes the site money.

Write a thoughtful discussion piece and people doze off after the first paragraph.

Write about Bitcoin's censorship resistance and point out failure of countries to prevent it. Lol US sanction for example, and they go after you and close you down.

Anyway, enough rant for Friday:)

Lowest common denominator. People who are interested in the tech, development, use cases, etc., are discussing bitcoin in this forum or github or similar, and are not reading click bait news articles. The people who are reading these trash articles are the same people who are commenting "When moon?" and cashing pump and dump shitcoins.

The more ridiculous the price prediction, the more clicks you get. No one cares if you predict the price will move by 1-2%.

I think for most of us, we've already accepted the fact that most people talking about Bitcoin (or crypto) online are either paid to do so (shillers) or speculators that want everyone else to pump the bags they're holding. And that includes for BTC.

What just gets me is they fall for their own traps and then never learn, piling back in on the next hype cycle.

The funny thing is IF only more people understood that the real point of hype are all those things you mentioned earlier (network usage up, security getting better every day, more features like privacy being developed, more adoption, etc), they would realize it's better to talk about these things. Then people would get so much more interested I think, and learn more, and then there'd be a real market demand that shilling and when moon videos can never achieve.