Title: Interesting Pre-BitcoinTalk Links and Events Post by: kaggie on August 04, 2021, 03:57:18 AM 1970s
The Crypto Wars, or limits to public encryption as a hold on from Cold War: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_Wars The Coderpunks, which would evolve to be Cypherpunks: http://www.toad.com/ (Example of toad.com email: http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1993/10/msg00759.html) Public cryptographic algorithms, 1978: http://ocw.bib.upct.es/pluginfile.php/5337/mod_resource/content/1/rsa_base.pdf 1980s David Chaum develops idea of e-cash, 1983: http://blog.koehntopp.de/uploads/chaum_fiat_naor_ecash.pdf http://www.hit.bme.hu/~buttyan/courses/BMEVIHIM219/2009/Chaum.BlindSigForPayment.1982.PDF 1990s Cypherpunks group starts, 1992: https://web.archive.org/web/20020603230702/https://www.cypherpunks.to/faq/cyphernomicron/cyphernomicon.txt This includes Eric Hughes, Tim May, Hal Finney, Wei Dai, Nick Szabo, Adam Back, Ray Dillenger, & Zooko. Several of these embrace "extropism". Hal Finney predicts NFTs, 1993, Compuserve: https://twitter.com/justintrimble/status/1357098395110952964 David Chaum implements Digicash, 1995: https://www.forbes.com/forbes/1999/1101/6411390a.html NSA publishes "Anonymous Electronic Cash", 1996: https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.805/articles/money/nsamint/nsamint.htm (Julian Assange and Craig Wright show up.. 1996: https://twitter.com/lopp/status/1035162505293778944) Tim May proposes crypto based on remailers, 1997: http://osaka.law.miami.edu/~froomkin/articles/tcmay.htm Adam Back proposes HashCash 1997, implemented 2001: http://www.hashcash.org/papers/hashcash.pdf , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashcash Wei Dei starts b-money, 1998, http://www.weidai.com/bmoney.txt Liberty dollar starts, 1999, https://libertydollar.net/the-history-of-the-liberty-dollar/ Cypherpunk Forum on E-Cash, 1999: https://marc.info/?l=cypherpunks&m=95280154629912&w=2 ; https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=205533.msg2149044#msg2149044 Anonymous replies to Adam Back, 1999: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23km92/potential_post_by_satoshi_nakamoto_in_1999/ 2000s Len Sassaman helps develop PGP, 2001: http://www.fastcrypto.org/vmac/draft-krovetz-vmac-01.txt Pecunix, an Panamaian e-currency based on gold reserves, 2001: https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/serials/files/cato-journal/2014/5/cato-journal-v34n2-5.pdf https://www.mail-archive.com/e-gold-list@talk.e-gold.com/msg12834.html Matthew Gaylor, E-cash's feasibility, 2001: https://www.mail-archive.com/e-gold-list@talk.e-gold.com/msg04919.html "X" publishes on digital peer to peer currency in UK finance group, 2002: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/X (Julian Assange??! on the cypherpunks list, 2002: https://web.archive.org/web/20160101223032/https://marc.info/?a=90366091900010) John Nash, Ideal Money, 2002: https://www.jstor.org/stable/1061553 The Digital Monetary Trust, 2003: https://web.archive.org/web/20031008175805/http://orlingrabbe.com/dmt_guide.htm The "Gold Age", Liberty Dollars, 2006: https://web.archive.org/web/20131231234813/http://www.ticotimes.net/More-news/News-Briefs/Millions-of-dollars-in-limbo-after-shuttering-of-digital-currency-site-Liberty-Reserve-_Saturday-May-25-2013 2007 The Amero discussion, 2007: https://imgur.com/a/9aRaGuR Wei Dei + Ted Krovetz, initiates VMAC, or hashing a key, http://www.fastcrypto.org/vmac/draft-krovetz-vmac-01.txt November 2007, Liberty Dollar raid: https://reason.com/blog/show/123553.html Summer 2007, Satoshi begins working on bitcoin. eCache, a Tor based currency, 2007: https://www.scribd.com/document/27467097/Interview-With-Operator-of-eCache 2008 The Digital Monetary Trust, https://web.archive.org/web/20080905150703/http://www.orlingrabbe.com/dmt1.htm Nick Szabo, Bit Gold, 2008: http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2005/12/bit-gold.html Satoshi emails on E-cash, October, 2008: https://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/emails/ 2009 Hal Finney on Twitter, "Running Bitcoin", Jan 10, 2009: https://twitter.com/halfin/status/1110302988?lang=en Wikipedia entry created, March, 2009: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bitcoin&oldid=275832581 The First Bitcoin post on reddit, May, 2009: https://np.reddit.com/r/business/comments/8itlf/bitcoin_a_peertopeer_network_based_anonymous/ ---- Additional interesting things: also see: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=875242.msg9674258#msg9674258 https://www.gwern.net/Bitcoin-is-Worse-is-Better Title: Re: Interesting Pre-BitcoinTalk Links Post by: kaggie on August 04, 2021, 03:57:47 AM ~~reserved~~
Title: Re: Interesting Pre-BitcoinTalk Links and Events Post by: Mbitr on August 04, 2021, 07:51:41 AM Nice list :) This paper is certainly worth adding too !
HOW TO MAKE A MINT: THE CRYPTOGRAPHY OF ANONYMOUS ELECTRONIC CASH Laurie Law, Susan Sabett, Jerry Solinas National Security Agency Office of Information Security Research and Technology Cryptology Division 18 June 1996 https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.805/articles/money/nsamint/nsamint.htm Title: Re: Interesting Pre-BitcoinTalk Links and Events Post by: Pmalek on August 04, 2021, 09:28:57 AM Hal Finney predicts NFTs, 1993, Compuserve: https://twitter.com/justintrimble/status/1357098395110952964 "Trading cards", as Hal called them, have existed in physical forms decades before someone thought to digitalize them. It was just a matter of time before someone would, but this is the first time I hear that Hal had such ideas. I collected ice hockey cards as a kid and owned hundreds of them with some of the best NHL players from the 80s and 90s. After a quick search, I just discovered that the first cards were manufactured back in the 1910s (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockey_card).Everything is digital now and I miss the old days. Title: Re: Interesting Pre-BitcoinTalk Links and Events Post by: Welsh on August 04, 2021, 02:36:26 PM I think a lot of people will be surprised just on how much Hal, and others listed here influenced Bitcoin. However, you've got respect Satoshi, they may have not came up with the original ideas, and may have been influenced by several other people, but they actually created something, and did the hard part of putting it all together. A lot of people have ideas, and good ideas at that, but not a lot of those actually end up putting the pieces together themselves.
"Trading cards", as Hal called them, have existed in physical forms decades before someone thought to digitalize them. It was just a matter of time before someone would, but this is the first time I hear that Hal had such ideas. I collected ice hockey cards as a kid and owned hundreds of them with some of the best NHL players from the 80s and 90s. After a quick search, I just discovered that the first cards were manufactured back in the 1910s (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockey_card). Even trading cards that we all collected as children seem to be going the digital route now. I remember that everyone my age pretty much had a binder, and was collecting various different cards all at one time. I was mainly interested in the sports cards, but I know there was several releases beyond that during the time they were popular. Everything is digital now and I miss the old days. Title: Re: Interesting Pre-BitcoinTalk Links and Events Post by: tranthidung on August 04, 2021, 04:03:08 PM You can get more in following sources
Title: Re: Interesting Pre-BitcoinTalk Links and Events Post by: The Sceptical Chymist on August 04, 2021, 04:40:26 PM OP, great list of information! Once again I was going to give you some merits, but I'm up against the 50/month limit, and I'm not sure what day that expires. If you're interested, drop me a PM in a few weeks and I'll do a post history review for you and I'll merit those posts that I wasn't able to.
Books about bitcoin's history have already been written (there are at least two big ones, Digital Gold and Bitcoin Billionaires, and I'm sure there are others), and though I've only read one of them so far--Digital Gold--it does go into the fascinating history of the creation of digital money. That said, I don't know how many forum members are readers of nonfiction books, so they might have missed the great stuff that's in the ones dealing with bitcoin. I'd definitely recommend picking up one of the above books if you're not familiar with bitcoin's early days and all the crazy/brilliant personalities involved. Everything is digital now and I miss the old days. Word up. I can't imagine collecting digital sports cards or comic books, but I didn't grow up in the 2000s. To the younger generation, those things are just going to seem normal and physical copies of cards and comics are going to seem like a quaint throwback from an era when technology wasn't as advanced. That sort of makes me sad, but I don't collect either one of those things anymore, so I'm not exactly weeping over the change.Title: Re: Interesting Pre-BitcoinTalk Links and Events Post by: kaggie on August 05, 2021, 03:16:19 PM OP, great list of information! Once again I was going to give you some merits, but I'm up against the 50/month limit, and I'm not sure what day that expires. If you're interested, drop me a PM in a few weeks and I'll do a post history review for you and I'll merit those posts that I wasn't able to. .. Books about bitcoin's history have already been written (there are at least two big ones, Digital Gold and Bitcoin Billionaires, and I'm sure there are others), and though I've only read one of them so far--Digital Gold--it does go into the fascinating history of the creation of digital money. That said, I don't know how many forum members are readers of nonfiction books, so they might have missed the great stuff that's in the ones dealing with bitcoin. I'd definitely recommend picking up one of the above books if you're not familiar with bitcoin's early days and all the crazy/brilliant personalities involved. One of those books is available near me, so I will pick up a copy today. Thanks for the suggestions. I plan on adding more information to the above. As you can see, I've already added a little more. While there are plenty of books on bitcoin, I am certain that I can add to it by looking into less formal links, and in the context of broader political movements. The influence of Ron Paul's presidential run in 2007 is barely discussed on this forum as an example. (This should be in the "Wiki" section of the forum rather than off-topic. Is there a way to get it moved? I prefer to not add to the wiki directly yet, as that also seems more formal.) --------------- I didn't realize or rather forgot how connected all of these individuals are. The Bay Area cypherpunks, the NSA, the EFF, and even Julian Assange! Ten years of connections.. And yet, none of them have been publicly confirmed as being Satoshi. What an enigma.. Also, the extroprians?! What! --------------- Another reference: https://groups.google.com/g/uk.finance/c/-Ko72tv170I?pli=1 https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2nicip/found_this_gem_newsgroups_from_2002/ https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/X Quote 2002-12-09 22:06:03 I have this idea of a future with virtual peer to peer banking. A kind of decentralized and secured system. Gone would be the times that governments and banks can track and interfere with our money transfers. Or even interfere with the total amount of money on earth. My envisioned sytem would have a fixed total amount of money. But each money unit (say virtual coin) is divisable[sic] indefinitely. So a kind of deflation would replace inflation. The total value of the money in the world would be a fixed number. It poses no problem for liquidity, because the currency can be divided anytime. However maybe people will not spend their money much, because it's value will increase often. Other problems raise in the areas of security, malicious use, and how to come towards such system from current systems? These are just ideas, I like to hear comments or about net resources on this subject. 2002-12-10 10:47:56 Maybe the community can bypass the old powers (countries and governments). It wouldn't be a revolution, but rather evolution. Slowly a new p2p system might take over. The current monetary systems were mainly backed with gold (not anymore now, to my knowledge). Maybe the underlying values of a virtual peer to peer system could be other scarce resources, relatively easy to exchange via internet. Examples are: computer processing power, bandwith[sic] and data storage. These resources would make a limited peer to peer money exchange system possible. Limited to the total real life value of all these resources. However from that point other resources could back up the virtual currency... 2002-12-10 11:06:11 It is a step in the right direction indeed. Now replace the system operator by a secure peer to peer system. And replace the underlying currency with something else, or slowly uncouple the underlying currency. Then it would be the system of my ideas... Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!syros.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wxs.nl!transit.news.xs4all.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!xs4all!news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Reply-To: <x> From: <x> Newsgroups: alt.internet.p2p,uk.finance Subject: Virtual peer to peer banking Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 23:05:31 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Lines: 16 Message-ID: <3df513a6$0$11750$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl> ------------------------------ The extropians.. which started in the 90s and ended formally in the 2000s: https://extropism.tumblr.com/post/393563122/the-extropist-manifesto https://web.archive.org/web/20131015142449/http://extropy.org/principles.htm https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1061926.180 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=890233.80 The extropians included Nick, Wei Dai, Hal, and Zooko. Zooko worked with Chaum, claims to have invented crypto before b-cash, and is knowledgeable: https://web.archive.org/web/20181116235823/https://plus.google.com/108313527900507320366/posts/1oi1v7RxR1i Wei Dai on extropianism: http://extropians.weidai.com/extropians.3Q00/1337.html ------------------------------ Nick Szabo, 1993: http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1993/10/msg00759.html Quote In my limited experience creating Internet pseudonyms, I've been quite The Penet remailer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penet_remailerdistracted by the continual need to avoid leaving pointers to my True Name lying around -- excess mail to/from my True Name, shared files, common peculiarities (eg misspellings in written text), traceable logins, etc. The penet.fi site explicitly maintains a list of pointers to the original address. All kinds of security controls -- crypto, access, information, inference -- have to be continually on my mind when using pseudonymous accounts. The hazards are everywhere. ... Many of the recent anon posts have been quite productive, eg "Wonderer's" embarrassing newbie questions which motivated Hal Finney to first write a nice explanation of digital cash, then think of an interesting simplification of Chaum's scheme. Under any system falling short of truly intelligent filters, Hal would not have filtered S. Boxx's first posts without also filtering Wonderer's first posts. ---- https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fv27sSra.jpg%3F1&t=628&c=J1ntuO3lhVzYOA |