Bitcoin Forum

Given the events in Afghanistan over the last week, it is a great example of where bitcoin could have been of great use to the people of the country.  The currency, the Afghani, fell to record lows.  Anyone who owned bitcoin was protected and could escape the country with their assets, not worrying about capital controls or confiscation at the border.

Given that China sees how weak the current US administration is, Taiwanese should beware and should have escape plans in place:  assets offshore in the US, EU, Switzerland etc and some large percentage in bitcoin.  The people of Hong Kong had an opportunity to do so, and probably still have a slight window, but right now Taiwan is in a place where the people should be concerned about the communists at their door.

I think it can explain several problems.
1. The leaders of Taiwan Island are too spineless, and they are often like pets. I also do not think that China will use force to reunify Taiwan Island (although it will not give up the use of force). When the balance of American interests is out of balance, he will choose to abandon Taiwan.

2. All wars and all overseas military operations of the United States have only one purpose: to consolidate the US dollar's status as the world currency hegemon. This is very obvious. There are no assumptions in life. All kinds of speculations will appear only when difficulties arise. The war in Afghanistan and the freezing of bank funds indicate that in the centralized currency system, you have no choice. Bitcoin will be pushed onto the stage by history.

Not a good idea though. If people see the Taliban use it (and let's face it, that's inevitable if the common people start using it) it will give bitcoin a bad name that we can't really recover from as long as it's used there.

Bitcoin is not yet fully payment system like fiat. Bitcoin is high volatile and common people of Afghanistan would not like it. Well devolped countries should choose bitcoin for payments purpose than off course some small countries will also adopt it.

I think I remember reading a couple of years ago that terrorists were found to be using Bitcoin to buy weapons. I cannot remember if this was a legit claim but I have heard other people say that they think Bitcoin is used by criminals it does not matter if the claim was legit people will believe it without researching it.

Bitcoin is a full payment system and operates like fiat but with improvements the problem with Bitcoin now is the fees and the high volatility that has nothing to do with Bitcoin not being a full payment system but the nature of the people using Bitcoin. Afghanistan is not a small country and is one of the richest if you count the amount of oil they have. Do not confuse developed countries for being the richest countries this is no always true because some countries that are rich have been in a state of war for decades like Afghanistan.

https://youtu.be/B6l5ZuTON9A?t=314

The Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying said to the Taiwanese that they could be the next too. What happens to Afganistan could happen to the Taiwanese and the unification of Taiwan to China shouldn't be stopped. It's a strategic mind game for them.


They should be a concern but what else could they do but fly away from there if they don't want to be caught in the middle.  They should be buying Bitcoin right now or they end up like the Afgan president who loads a huge amount of cash in his car while fleeing.

Yes, holding Bitcoin is the best way to avoid the effects of war. The Afghan people are now suffering from the devaluation of their own currency. This is especially true for Taiwan. Taiwan is a pawn used by the United States to contain China. If it fails to achieve its effect, it will inevitably be abandoned by the United States. It is possible that the Taiwan dollar will disappear completely and be replaced by a digital renminbi.

maybe in afghanistan bitcoin payment already been there for **** funding it just my thought. but for country payment umm i dont know since there still problem on their government

We don't know Taliban used it or not. The seized money is from Afghanistan government.

Cryptocurrencies are known as tools for money laundering. Bitcoin is provided on many crypto tumblers. Nevertheless, it does not because Bitcoin was created by satoshi to be a tool of money laundering. Gun powders and gun were created not to be tools for terrorists, etc.

Bitcoin network does not operate like fiat through central banks. Your comparison is inaccurate.

You can choose fee to use if you know that you can customize fee for your Bitcoin transactions and if you store your bitcoin in non-custodial wallet from which you will broadcast your transaction.

If China pushes Taiwan to the point that they have to defend and go on a war against them, a lot of countries will back Taiwan and Taiwan will take the last resort of making the remaining pieces of cultural heritage of China destroyed forever so they really can't go doing that and I don't think that China wants a war too. Afghanistan is another story, bitcoin could've helped but the invasion of Taliban was so fast and it caught people off guard plus the Taliban wasn't a threat because Afghanistan's armed forces have the US arsenal left behind.

Let's face the fact, what goes on in Afghanistan isn't a democracy. You only talk about the "Common People" and their feelings in perspective when it's a democracy as citizens get to air their divergent views, be heard and addressed. But in a dictatorship like we're going to experience soon in Afghanistan, the commoners don't have a say. Again, from the look of things, Bitcoin won't even be considered in the country since it's purely an Islamic state now. Muslims don't really welcome the Bitcoin idea as most of them think buying and owning Bitcoin/Cryptocurrencies is akin to gambling. Just the same way Muslims also frowns at interest based loans.

Most likely if their economy will fall, their currency will lose its value and the only thing you can rely on upon terms of currency is when you have to save bitcoins in your wallet to use for emergencies if something like this will happen. Because remember you can store it without using any smartphones or computers just the seed phrase will do and you can pretend like you don't own anything at all. I see where the OP is heading with giving this kind of idea to the current situation of Taiwan. They will have an option to do this kind of thing if something goes wrong with them in the future.

These are the exact reasons why fascist and regressive countries have either banned bitcoin or in the process of doing it. Because governments do not like people to have control over their own assets, rather they want to control everything they can.

Bitcoin is indeed a great tool to avoid such intervention from the government dogs. We have seen that in the past when protest against China erupted in Hongkong. I am sure many people are using bitcoin solely for this purpose. But governments are furious. Recently Federal Reserve president said few lines on bitcoin.

Read here: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/crypto-is-95-fraud-hype-noise-and-confusion-says-feds-neel-kashkari-11629236416

Whether one has hardware wallet or not, he has to keep the seed safe and the wallet protected.
Indeed, the mobile phone app and other means to easily access the coins should be removed from sight and the seed has to be also encrypted, but can easily be done.
And another HW can be bought when the owner of the coins reaches a more safe county.

I do hope for the best for the people that's now in Afghanistan, since probably the tough days are far from over for them  >:(

If I am not mistaken, al Qaeda, Taliban and Isis all already started using Bitcoin. They make international trade already and because US dollars and bank routes are difficult to make, crypto was the way for some of them.

So maybe you are right,,, using it might make US and others think YOU are part of the Taliban.

Don't hope you can run and escape global economic collapse that is slowly spreading around the world, so US or EU and not really safe havens and could soon turn more into newage concentration camps like in Canada or Australia.
I would say that safest countries are located in Latin and South America, but only outside big cities, and I think that having some Bitcoin and other hard assets is essential for surviving upcoming years.

You know that iPhone can now scan your phone for your ''safety'' and I think that most smartphones have backdoors that governments can hack even without your permission, there are even laws forcing you to tell them your password, and that is crazy!
Similar thing can be said for hardware wallets, but miltisig fixes this and you can just bring seed words with you, maybe even in binary form like this on metal or paper:

https://i.imgur.com/rV5jcoG.jpg
https://github.com/jakob6102/seedcard

You know you are so right and people in Afghanistan should have considered getting into Bitcoin before the collapse of their government and the entrance of the Taliban forces. Certainly, life can never be easy and can be so tough under the new terroristic regime despite the words of promises by the new leadership. Of course, it is now too late for them. Other countries that may experience the encroachment of China should take heed and invest more with cryptocurrency as a way of storing value and a way to protect their wealth. Now, isn't it amazing that we are now seeing the beauty of Bitcoin and cryptocurrency in action?

Many will come to the aid of Taiwan, that’s for sure. The country housing one of the most important processor manufacturing companies in the world will surely be safeguarded by its stakeholders and those who have vested their interest in the said company. Also, China will have a hard time reunifying Taiwan with the mainland with the amount of pressure from the UN and other countries against the possible invasion. Taiwan could adopt bitcoin for other purposes, but certainly not because China is threatening to invade them.

Afghanistan and Taliban is a different scenario; very far from Taiwan and China. In the case of the former, the citizens were never free to begin with, and most have had no money to bitcoins for themselves.

Taiwan, not quite yet, but they would be better off storing away their currency into crypto because they won't be able to rely on the US to protect them against Chinese aggression. Afghan's are unfortunately too poor to begin with, so I'm not sure how quick they'd be to adopt crypto when their currency is already failing. Lower class usually has a problem with a fiat to crypto transmission, and it doesn't help that the entire Middle East is primitive in technology. The number of folks that are using Bitcoin to improve their situation in Afghanistan has to be next to nothing.

I like the idea of having protection from what currency they have. I hope that a lot of people from there have managed to stash some cryptocurrency to prevent those losses that can incur from what you have said. I didn't know that Taiwan is in a rough spot now or is in the hot waters with the recent happenings. I hope nothing bad happens to them though.

Based on our Afghan cryptocurrency regulatory review, crypto-related activity in the country has a security rating of 1.9/10. The main ranking factor for Afghanistan is User Voting. There are 5 ICOs and 0 Exchange offices located in the country and 38 ICOs have restricted Afghan residents from taking part in their crowdfunding campaigns. Currently the state of Bitcoin in the region is controversial. You can use regulatory review this Afghan crypto to check if it is safe to invest in ICO or exchange crypto assets in the country and what legitimacy status Bitcoin has here. Today the analysis tool has rated Afghanistan at 183 number 249 out of countries by security rating.

The Hong Kong protests already saw quite impressive use case demonstrations for Bitcoin. Even if you're not looking or able to flee -- and many Afghans are also choosing to stay and resist -- Bitcoin can help overcome oppressive police states, as the protestors in HK showed when they had to use Bitcoin to buy travel tickets and send assistance to circumvent China's monitoring of bank accounts to put location and linkage tracing on HK residents.

It's a great store (and transport) of value, yes. But it's also a really useful anti-censorship transmission of money.

I was thinking of the same thing. Just as I started reading about the things going on in Afghanistan a thought came into my mind.

What if the Taiwan people who know control the government of Afghanistan declare their tradition fiat currency as illegal.
Everybody who holds that currency will basically have zero money. I explained this thing to my brother and said him that this why it is absolutely necessary to hold some possession in bitcoin.
He understood my point.

The thought of your life savings turning into zero overnight is very thrilling and this is why it is necessary that a globally accepted currency not controlled by the government should exist.
Bitcoin is the way ahead for many such problems.

You have the bitcoins with you, so you can survive in these tough times at Afghanistan but what's the grantee that you will live ?  The currency comes in handy when you are able to survive but currently the situation of the country is not good and anyone could get a shot gun anytime  :(

Anyways bitcoin is  always a safe place to keep your money without concerning much about geographical boundaries.

It would have been a great advantage to holders of Bitcoin before all this started and I hope the holder of the Bitcoin over there have really safeguard their securities and Password related to Cryptocurrency.

And the recent Afghanistan scenario where thousands of people are queuing to take
their money out of the banks is another typical example of ownership of wealth and
the consequences of not having full control of what you own.

https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/AP21227476382108.jpg?resize=1170%2C780

Bitcoin as posted above is a perfect store, transport and anti-censorship of wealth,
when the Taliban take full control of the country restrictions and limits will be in
place  until there is a change, Bitcoin is the wealth safehaven.

People anywhere facing an existential threat who can preserve their assets with something like bitcoin would do well to do so whether or not that encourages scum to use it.  Let's face it, people protect their assets with USD, Euros, gold, silver etc, just because there are bad people using them too doesn't matter.

Exactly.  The degree to which a country bans bitcoin (or crypto) is the degree to which they are or intend to be authoritarian in nature.

Bitcoin would be a great asset for savings if only it was a lot more stable - but that is something that nobody can control. Maybe a better idea is having a basket of the top 5 most popular currencies to sort of hedge your bets, even though they often move in tandem. Weight the majority of your holdings (say 40%) into Bitcoin as the first mover will always have a strong advantage over others, and taper it down in a similar way to the remaining cryptocurrencies. The trouble with your idea is, that it is hard to be safe all of the time - you might store a hardware wallet (which might be difficult to smuggle out depending on circumstances) or you might have your funds in an exchange - which are relentlessly targeted by hackers.

It is.

That's the matter for what they see in bitcoin. Bitcoin's purposely being used as both, investment and payment. But mostly today, we're all holding it and treats it as an investment and that's what's being said on the original post because it cannot be confiscated by any government unless you're the one surrendering and voluntarily giving it. And for the developed countries, they're not obliged to do it, but as long as there's no law about it, people living in those countries are free to own, use it for payments and as a store of value.

Just to be clear to those advocating for some type of authoritarian system:  I’m not going to accept some fake freedom where I am “free” to work as I want while you are free to dispose of my life as you want. Someplace where everyone is both a slave master and a slave.

If you think that is a good idea, I suggest that you go and live somewhere that is practicing that for a few years.  See what it is like to live under the whip hand.  If you survive, come and report back to us afterward, but don't pretend that it is for our own good that you want to impose your whims on people who want to be free.  It is for your own selfish desire to control everyone else.

 

Really those are the safest? But I have been reading in the last few years, even if you see on social media, many people in South America are sharing how worthless their currencies are and how many are protesting against the police but police brutality is so common there. On one side are drug cartels and crime gangs that force everyone to live under them. On the other side is police who are corrupt and brutal.

I have seen the protests shared on social media and people saying pray for them. Colombia Venezuela Argentina Peru I only say a few of what I remember,,,

I haven't really read any news that would indicate that the average Afghan could even get acquainted with the advantages of cryptocurrencies, and far from being able to own them at all with the low standard of life. The keyword here is that something could have been helpful if people had known it at all, that is, if they had the infrastructure that would allow them to create the conditions for the adaptation of new technologies. What they have unfortunately had for the past 20 years is a false promise that brought them back to square one.

https://i.imgur.com/UxyVHhw.jpg
Source (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/18/new-cryptocurrency-bitcoin-user-global-map.html)

This exactly. And to be fair, there is only a small percentage of Afghani people that would use BTC, most are at least 2-3 centuries mentally behind that. And this is no disrespect, the fact is that a big part of that country is just behind a bunch of years due to being in constant turmoil. I don't see how crypto would make any good sense there.

I don't think bitcoin would be fit for Afghanistan especially given their current state. Bitcoin is volatile. It requires knowledge about how it works for someone to fully utilize it. In addition, the processing time is longer and transaction fees are higher compared to the usual digital banking. Although I get that bitcoin is really useful if you will really think about it because of its decentralized nature, meaning even Taliban group won't be able to regulate it as much as they would want to; but we must also take into consideration that Afghanistan is a country that is far from being developed. Their citizens would definitely have a hard time most especially if they will just be introduced to bitcoin by now.

I don't think most of their people have resources as well as of now that their country is in chaos. In addition, the establishments that are accepting bitcoin are still limited particularly to the developed countries, hence, using bitcoin would be futile because the adoption in their country doesn't happen yet.

I agree that Bitcoin should have played a very important role in Afghanistan. Banks are now overflowing with people. Managers, administration staff, employees, and so on are now leaving their jobs from bank branches. Banks are now stopping the release of withdrawals and have failed to deliver a lot of services because of what happened there. The currency itself is unstable even before the Taliban took over because the threat had always been there.

As in the case of Taiwan, it is better to be safe while it is still early. Bitcoin is a safe way to keep one's worth.

This is an awesome topic as it's something that a group of friends and I were discussing in a Discord chat recently.  We were all trying to figure out if there was a way for us to be able to help out the Afghani people, and we came to the conclusion that trying to mail anything in would surely be stolen, and if anyone tried to bring any aid in that they would surely be shot and killed.  Bitcoin is the one true way to help aid these people where the Taliban has no control over it. 

Afghanistan's right at the heart of all empires from East, West, Central. And even in the past few decades it's seen upheavals, so yeah, it's going to be hard for anyone anywhere there to rely on fiat, whether it's the local currency or a foreign one like USD that's of course going to be sanctioned against there.

Bitcoin does work, but perhaps not everyone there is able to take advantage. Those who can are already fleeing.

If you're talking about the people of the country who are now left without the international aid which was 80% of the country's GDP and are facing an uncertain future, you might be right that Bitcoin is a good choice for them to keep the people they possess because the banking system isn't well-developed and is currency restricted there, and it's hard to get a hold of an ATM. That being said, I don't think there are options to spend Bitcoin in Afghanistan, so it's only a temporary solution for those who want to keep some wealth they already have, not for day-to-day life. It's only not an option in daily life because many Afghans don't have internet access (https://gnet-research.org/2021/08/16/from-night-letters-to-the-internet-propaganda-the-taliban-and-the-afghanistan-crisis/) on their smartphones.

It will be like BTC going crazy in IRAN given the military tension between US and IRAN. Their own panic scenario that makes everything valuable or meaningless is only seen as an opportunity to find a chance to survive. It's really bad for the people living in the territory of these countries, pray for them to have peace.

BTC actually did not go crazy in Iran because people already seemed to know about it there for years. It was in Zimbabwe for example,,, where prices of BTC was 2x higher than anywhere else in the world at some points because there, there is so little supply and great demand from people who just found out about it.

I think Taiwan will be like Iran and Afghanistan will be like Zimbabwe.

With the Taliban taking control of Afghanistan, it is possible to increase the price of bitcoin, and if bitcoin supporters in Afghanistan are encouraged to invest in bitcoin, the possibility of a jump in the price of bitcoin could happen faster and faster, but that was my opinion.

bitcoin for afghanistan and taiwan, if we think of bitcoin for afghanistan it can be said to be a good idea, but for now we should not focus on all that just yet, first we have to think about the fate of afghanistan people who seek refuge, because if they have a good place to live , then we think about how to get bitcoin for afghanistan..

That's if they are able to get the money through bitcoin, pretty sure that Taliban will be having problems regarding the money. Taiwan on the other hand doesn't need bitcoin, they're economically great and what they need is more advantage that they can use against China and bitcoin isn't one of them.

But who will do the initiatives to rebuilding their country, as they are ruled by Taliban already? Will Taliban accept crypto for the sake of their countrymen or will just put it on their pockets? Helping them is a good thinking but how can the donation be really given to the needy? I believe, that will be the dilemma for those countries who want to help some Afghani people.

The two countries mentioned here, although poor, have supported Bitcoin.  Because all the countries that legalize Bitcoin are very good.  Because Afghanistan is a more developed country than our country and Taiwan is a more developed country.

How do you expect people with very poor education and computer literacy to start using Bitcoin, when even most of western people who spend a majority of their lives online can't figure Bitcoin? On practice only a very-very small number of people would benefit from Bitcoin in a situation like the one in Afghanistan right now.

Also, the protection against currency fall argument is flawed, because literally any other solid asset would have worked, and even better than Bitcoin because of less risk for downside movement. That's why people in countries with weak currency seek US dollars. As for confiscations, I doubt that the countries that take refugees are going to rob them, and their own government has dissolved, and most people who are fleeing the country aren't going to deal with Taliban-controlled borders, because it would be a death sentence to them. So in this situation the "anti-confiscation" property is not that great. Especially if you consider that many of these refugees have like a couple hundreds of dollars at best.

People can't even escape from that sharia hell easily. Bitcoin would be the last thing they would think about. Things are going really bad in Afghanistan, thousands of people already came to Turkey and many more refugees to come, if they can escape. I'm pretty sure %99 of them don't even use computer, let alone how Bitcoin works and how to save a wallet. Don't forget to consider geographical conditions when looking at things from a different perspective.
I understand your point but it's a wishful thinking. Even boomers in USA or other civilized countries can't understand and use Bitcoin, don't expect poor Afghan refugees to know this technology.

https://i.loli.net/2021/08/24/HtiC6QPN4weJKZb.png

https://i.loli.net/2021/08/24/HmD86Ni9ePZoTjS.png

When I saw this news and picture, I thought that such a government is casual, and it also carries firearms, which reflects the management capabilities and governance methods of this government from one side. This is a government that people do not trust. I also worry about the safety of ordinary people. When a country experiences war and turmoil, the safety of life and property, I think the former is more important. So Bitcoin is more suitable for a safe and stable country, and Afghanistan may give other countries hints and guidance. Bitcoin can realize property hedging.

but the problem here is that how many Afghans knows bitcoin or ? or even believe on this , surely small faction only.

but this is a best example on how we must treat this currency so the next time happens there are many resources to use when need to leave the country.

I don't think that there are similar problem Taiwan and Afghanistan has , because afghans has this problem even before they are born when taiwan is just facing their earlir.

There is nothing hype about these discussions,,, you have completely missed the point where we are not talking about investors or speculators but people running away from their countries or people trying to protect their wealth and transport it with them while they are looking for refuge across other nations.

Pay attention man.

I'm not sure, but maybe this isn't the case for BTC usage, since Afghanistan is actually a country with a mid-range economy and knowledge about this new technology isn't available as many people wake up and grasp it. Moreover, the fact that the last few days I watched the news, I really didn't know if it was right or wrong because I just saw more hungry people in life. But the other case about IRAN and USA, I think that's what we're talking about.

If that happens, I will choose to put Bitcoin on a well-known exchange, because I only need to remember the account number and password. Then delete all files on the phone. Finally, after I have stabilized, I will transfer the bitcoins to my cold wallet.