Bitcoin Forum

Coming Very Soon:

A real 1 ounce gold coin with 1000 bitcoins.

It sounds like I can have it soon, like within this month, and possibly very soon this month.  UPDATE 2: most likely before Dec 20.

DIAMETER: 30mm (slightly larger than 1 BTC coin) (hey, gold is heavy)

COST: $200 premium over gold and Bitcoin spot price, plus shipping.  This is approximately a $5000 coin.  Shipping is via Registered Mail with insurance.  I will need 3 business days to fill orders.

I will be accepting either BTC or USD wire transfer for this item.

Thanks to those of you who talked me into this!  (Note to self: Holy shit, I can't believe I'm doing this!)

UPDATE: I am willing to do a shared private key scheme for the gold coin, where you generate half the key, and I generate the other half. The hologram will be clearly marked that a second key is required, along with a partial hash of your public key.  This completely eliminates the possibility that I would have access to your BTC on your coin once I fund it.  I doubt this coin will get redeemed much, and I doubt anyone would buy one second hand without checking Block Explorer =) so I am not concerned about making a check to Block Explorer necessary as I would with smaller coins.

 :o
can you please tell me how many of these you produce and where? floor plans for the building would be very much aprreciated, thank you  ;D

Howabout doing something with Palladium? It seems to be ignored by other speculators and a real bargain. Maybe Bitcoin can corner the market by adopting Palladium as the official coinage for offline exchange.

I like the idea of non speculation driven metals as well: platinum/palladium. They should hold value due to the intrinsic industrial usage vs. wild gyrations from speculator sentiment.

I probably won't be handling or storing them myself much, other than to actually apply the holograms and get them out the door on the infrequent occasion that they actually get ordered.

The mint is local, and with what I am charging for a premium, I can have them made on demand.  (that's the only way I can practically make this work).  I won't have to keep any inventory on these beyond what would fit in a small safety deposit box.  Pretty sweet.

I assume that doing a shared private key means that if I lose my half of the key, then the bitcoins will be lost. That sort of defeats the purpose of these physical bitcoins where having the physical untampered coin means that you have access to the stores bitcoins.

Why I'd like to see us to have another 3rd party create a complementary coins that has the other half of the keys. Then these 2 coins will be a matching set.

The gold coin will probably come in a capsule, gift box, or other container, and will in practice almost never be separated from it.

This is purely a collector's coin - a coin that will pretty much NEVER circulate as "bitcoin currency" due to its nature, so I'm willing to take liberties that wouldn't make sense for the smaller coins that someone could "receive" in a transaction.

Solution: Print the code on a clear label, and put it on the container.  Problem solved.  If someone else besides me had a laser etching machine, they could etch the code into the acrylic capsule, and it would look clean.  But that sort of defeats the purpose if I'm the one making the coins.  Seems to me someone with a $5k budget for a coin might be able to find a local engraving shop to engrave the key on a plaque or capsule or other object so it looks nice.

It's the buyer's coin after all... if buyer wants a single private key because having a secondary object defeats the purpose, I'll be happy to provide it with a single key, and will never steal his bitcoins.

How safe is using the 2 keys method? I'd hate to have the 2 public keys show the amount and then when I try to redeem it years later, I find that the 2 private keys don't really work together as expected.

You can have a 3rd party verify all the key math, other than the concealed key in the coin. You have to trust the right key is in the coin. I have good control over this with multiple checks and balances.

This is what I love about your product, Casascius. Basically, we trust the "inherent" value of a dollar bill because it's backed by the US government, and we even somewhat trust the "inherent" value of bitcoins based on their usefulness and speculative demand, but you've managed to redirect the only support of value in your physical bitcoins to...you.

I am sure you're ok with your product just being a novelty, though.

Probably out of my price range at the moment, but this would be fun to buy.

wow!

Are you trying to tell me you'll have a 1 oz gold coin produced with a bitcoin logo???

I might be interested in buying one without the Bitcoins.

The cool thing is though, that I don't have a monopoly on this.  Decentralization doesn't necessarily mean "never trust anybody".  You trust your grocery store not to sell you expired/spoiled/poisonous food; if they did, you would have somewhere else to shop.  Surely, you wouldn't say your local grocery store has cornered the market on food, otherwise I would expect that you only eat things you grow yourself.

I am eager to see someone else do a great (or better) job of Physical Bitcoins, meanwhile, I have just laser-cut 1,700 more private key circles this afternoon, all with "1Agxxxxx" addresses, meant for my silver coins.

1Ag addresses for silver and 1Au addresses for gold. Nice!

Yep, those addresses are very clever.

I wasn't saying any of that. I was saying you've managed to find a perfect way to swap the backing of bitcoin value from a much more trustworthy source (general demand and scarcity) to probably the most untrustworthy source generally (one random internet person). The only reasonable value I can place on your physical product and the underlying bitcoins (the same for anyone who uses similar methods) is based on this statement:


Let me put this another way for all of your customers: The value of your physical coins is the sum of the following: 1) underlying value of the bitcoin code, 2) the novelty/look/use of your product, and 3) the raw materials value.

1): Dependent on you being honest.
2): Dependent on nobody redeeming the code, lest they destroy it's novelty, look, or physical trade use.
3): The only lasting value of your product.

So you've invented a wonderful product that incentivizes not verifying if you're being honest while depending on your honesty, all the while padding your bank account.

This, right here, folks, is why bitcoins will fail. Because everyone with a small stack throws their money at some of the worst ideas on the planet, and most people with an ounce of sense wouldn't even bother.

Huh?

I totally disagree with you. I think casascius physical bitcoins is one of the best ideas. I've bought a bunch of the 1btc coins to give out to people. This is one of the best conversation starter and helps spread the word about bitcoin.

If you do not trust Mike, you don't have to purchase his 1000 btc coins. But I think a 1oz gold coin with 1000 btc in it is a very cool concept. It makes you think about the definition of value. Does the gold have intrinsic value? Do the embeded bitcoins have intrinsic value? In a hundred years, will this coin be just a plain 1oz gold coin with a pretty hologram and a cryptic string in it? Or would this be a highly sought after collectible worth a lot of money due to the embedded bitcoins?

You both perfectly proved my point by missing the entire object of my post: What value do embedded bitcoins hold if you can't be sure they are even there without destroying the pretty hologram that gives it it's novelty value?

Why would anyone ever accept a 1btc coin in payment for anything, if they couldn't verify that there are even btc in it without destroying the coin?

Do you see what I'm getting at? The entire value of these things (minus the raw brass, silver, or gold) is dependent on 1) Mike being honest, and 2) you never being able to verify if mike was honest with the coin you're holding. He sells an object that requires you to risk throwing away everything you paid for it just to be certain you can trust him.

Again, this is why bitcoins will never go anywhere other than these forums. Most people can think through these problems and then just never bother.

Only problem is his honesty has been verified by the random sampling of physical bitcoins that have been opened and redeemed by presumably independent persons.

1 BTC coins 46/3836 = 1%
10 BTC coins 0/11 = 0%
25 BTC coins 6/249 = 2%
100 BTC coins 12/34 35%

http://www.uberbills.com/casascius/

I think we can be fairly certain that all coins that have been sold have been loaded with the BTC. If he were to load all BTC as expected, but keep a copy of the private key *that* is where a problem might be.

If you go to the grocery store and buy yourself ham for dinner, you are staking your entire life on 1) the integrity of the store, as well as every employee they hired off the street and every unknown person in their supply chain, that they didn't taint it with something that will kill you, and 2) you never being able to verify that the meal you bought was tainted, without eating it and risking your life, or else sending it to a lab to ensure it's truly poison free (which is not only expensive, but the meal will be spoiled and unusable as dinner by the time the lab is done with it).  So, in practice, going to the grocery store and buying dinner requires that you risk ending your entire life just for convenience of having someone else raise and prepare an animal for you to eat for dinner.

Of course, practically speaking, the store has an incentive not to sell you food that will kill you, it's bad for their business.  And they would also likely be liable for your injury or death.  Every city in the USA is plastered with billboards for lawyers who would love to get in on the action if it ever happened.  Those two controls are good enough that you still patronize the grocery store.

I'm not a whole lot different.

We can be fairly certain of nothing, considering 1) you have no idea who opened those coins, and 2) no smart thief would load none. I'd be happy to skim 1 of every 100 1BTC coins sold, for an extra $383 dollars.


Yes, yes. There's all kinds of legal avenues we can take advantage of to get back our stolen BTCs from you.  ::) The fact is, anyone stupid enough to trust you like they trust their grocery store probably deserves to lose everything.

In that case, why don't I just raise my price 1%?  The market will already clearly bear it.


There actually are legal avenues, no different than if I claimed to sell designer handbags but shipped knockoffs.  Now, it would actually be a joke - as you suggest - if I owned no significant assets to go after, but that's not the case here.  If a lot of people believed I were stealing their coins, they would probably have no problem finding a lawyer to pursue the case on contingency.

BitMagic, healthy skepticism is good, but I think you're going to a rather unwarranted extreme.

I'm not claiming he's a thief, I'm claiming that all else being equal, for a "currency" rife with successful theatre purchases, automatic card reading devices, very reliable forks, secure wallet services, perfectly competitive small cap exchanges, honest mortgage brokers...ah fuck it.

https://i.imgur.com/hdHdq.gif

If he provides the two-key option, then he is definitely trustable...

I'm probably saying something that everyone here already knows, but:
The two-key coin requires both the private key on the hologram and your secret key to redeem it.  This means that
1. Since the address of the coin is easily gotten from your two public keys, you can verify casascius sent coins there.
2. He has no incentive at all to put an incorrect private key onto the coin.
3. Thus, you and only you can redeem the coin.

Take it or leave it ! Mike does a great job with his coins. I trust him, if you don't, just stay away from his products.

I have my coins and i'm very happy  :D ;D

BitMagic,

I am curious about something.  In your signature you have 9Hkao8U82WWDp6SQGn4k7ad9gT1LWeL5s3

I do not recognize this as a valid Bitcoin address.  Is it a joke or is it a type of address that I am not familiar with?

Burt

Hey casascius,

30mm, will this be a 1/2 troy ounce coin?

It will be a full ounce.

I think your sarcasm detector is malfunctioning, sir.

I got the sarcasm of the statement but I was wondering why not put a valid BTC address there just in case someone agreeded with the statement.

The point is that he holds all the information to extract the underlying BTC at any point, not that it's an incorrect private key. I.e. there certainly are BTC on the coin. A week later, a month, etc, there aren't. Random sample, draw from an address that's on an old coin, easy peasy.

Again, I'm not saying he's doing this. Only that this particular business model is the perfect scam as soon as he gets greedy enough. Maybe he isn't this way, but given the general history of "bitcoin entrepreneurs", I don't know why you'd take the risk.


Because it gives me an opportunity every time to say this: you are a sad, sad group of people begging for change on the internet corner, and it sickens me to the point where I wouldn't put a public BTC address up if you paid me.

...and then I get sued and held liable for doing so.  A significant difference from the bitcoin scammers of the past is that I am not anonymous.  There are more incentives to not scam than just good intentions.


We are begging for change!  You asked for change, we gave you coins.  (This message is encoded on the back of my 25 BTC piece).

Oh, sorry, wrong change.

Well, I agree with the sentiment that just because one could put up a "donation" address doesn't mean one should.  I never donate to donation addresses, except on a few rare occasions where I have donated sizeable amounts and paid out bounties for creating code that I thought was a substantial contribution to the bitcoin community, large enough to well overqualify as "tips".  But just by putting up an invalid bitcoin address, I don't think anyone gets your intended humor.

This quite sets them apart from "regular old 1 BTC casascious" coins, which can actually be given to someone.

This thing is bound to an address owner. I see, much better for storing wealth, casascius can't steel the bitcoins, neither can anybody else getting his hands on the physical product.

Pretty save against theft, I'd say. Cool, that's what was missing so far.

Thanks for mentioning this, because I really didn't catch it before ;)

Looks awesome!

...watching....

In case you haven't seen this new thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54845.0

photo or link to for pic of the 1 Oz gold 1,000 Btc coin when it appears please

Did you see my post above?

lol I dont think he bothered looking up

didn't check it, many thanks am now - looks fab