Bitcoin Forum

So, I made my first 'day trade' today. I thought I'd done well to get ~ $5 margin from it, but when I went to check the actual profit it, it was only ~ $1. What gives?

I'm using binance and I think it said the fee for spot trading was 0.075%? I checked the order history and it said it had taken around 0.00001120 BTC in fees. Okay, fine but where has the other $3.60 got to?  >:( forgive me if I'm being dumb somehow but that sort of fee seems awfully high for one spot trade.

The higher the leverage the high the fee that will be deducted after you close the position. For example, you have $500, you go on 5x leverage, the actual charges may not be more than $2 but if you increase your leverage to 10x, the fee will also increase along which could be $4. Some traders can go for 50x to 125x leverage, this could be the beginning of fast money loss and depression.

Future contract is the riskiest trading on Binance, followed by margin trading. The best about future contract is that you can go on 1x which means no leverage, and you will still be able to go long or short.

Generally it's the market price changing before you confirm the order or it's to do with slippage.

If you sell $1000 in btc at $50k but the two highest bids are:
900 @50k
100 @49.9k
Then you will actually get 999.8k (based on a quick calculation). This can be more profound if the market doesn't have high liquidity.

This only affects market sells and doesn't affect limits though.

You need to provide more information about the trade if you want a solid answer.

1. Binance charges different trading fees for spot and margin trading depending on your tier. You might wanna check the fee structure - https://www.binance.com/en/fee/schedule
2. What type of order did you use to close your position?
Check your order history and look at the price you used to close your position because it matters a lot.

You are not giving us enough information to know what it actually happened, however I agree with the the other user that speculates that this could be because slippage, when you sell your coins the order can take some time to be processed, this is even more true if the market is moving very rapidly so you could have sold for a price lower than what you thought, and if we add leverage to the equation then it is possible the slippage was enough to erase a great deal of your profits.

Probably, the fee for btc trade is different from The fees for other currencies
Maybe you should check well, because ive been using Binance and the fees have been very okay for me.

Trading that kind of small capital is too good to be true, I mean what you can expect to earn from that? The fees will surely eat that so better to stop trading and just save for some good capital to start with also you can try spot trading first which is less risky for a newbie. You're already on a good exchange, you just need to learn more about trading.

When you trade with small amount don't expect too much gain, and of course fees remained fixed there's nothing we can do about it. That's the implemented standards of binance, also with other exchanges it could be much expensive or higher depending on their current status.
However, don't get upset but rather pursue and continue trading as well.

Yeah, that's why never trade on the market price. Simply choose the limit option and we can always be sure at what price we sold the assets. If you set the price all yourself and also keep the stop-loss open as bak up then your money won't be going anywhere in the hidden charges. It will also get sold at the price which you sat up.


Good explanation on the futures. But OP may not have traded in the futures since they clearly mentions about the day trading results. This was probably the spot trading and OP literally sold at market price which might have taken time to get filled 100% and by the time it was completed the prices could have different. The volatility is bad stuff in the crypto and that's what happened here. This is best guess.

We can only guess what happened to your trade, If you feel disadvantaged why not contact their contact support and include a screen shot of your trade history, I have never been in contact with fees issues, but I think this is a better way to address your issues and get the right answers.

No one pointed out so sorry if I am wrong.

According to my estimate, 0.00001120 BTC in fees is roughly $5, and maybe at the time you did it if it was a few days ago, judging from price, it could be actually closer to $4.

So could the simplest answer be that your $5 ++ profit became $1 after the $4 fee in BTC?

Thanks all for the advice. I've come to the conclusion I don't understand this well enough to continue right now with the knowledge and funds I have, so I will withdraw my funds and endeavour to learn more before trying again.

I may have come across as though I was annoyed at this outcome, but actually I was more just confused and didn't know how to find the explanation myself. I'm glad I tried and learned some more, even though I may have actually lost a small amount of dollars  ::) I now realise I just need to do a lot more research.

Thanks again for the replies, and for anyone still interested in a newbies first foray into trading, here is some more info from the trades:

Date   Pair   Type   Side   Average   Price   Executed   Amount   Total   Trigger Conditions   Status   
2021-09-02 15:46:19   BTC/USDT   Limit   
Buy
49556   49556   0.01123   0.01123   556.51388 USDT   _   
Filled

exchange-TradeOrdersTable-TradingTotal:

556.51388 USDT
Order No.
7392814677
Date   Trading price   Executed   Transaction Fee:   Total   
Role
2021-09-02 15:57:00   49556.00   0.01120   0.00001120 BTC   555.02720000 USDT   Maker
2021-09-02 15:57:00   49556.00   0.00003   0.00000003 BTC   1.48668000 USDT   Maker
2021-09-02 14:35:47   BTC/USDT   Limit   
Sell
50205   50205   0.0111   0.0111   557.2755 USDT   _   
Filled

You should edit your post, and hide details. Nobody need such full details of your trade.

• Amount to sell.
• Price to sell
• Maker or taker order.

That's enough details.

Check Taker/ Maker fee on exchanges: https://www.cryptowisser.com/exchanges/

I looked at the transactions and here is a summary:

The first problem is that the times don't make sense. It appears that you sold the BTC before you bought it. Assuming that those are the appropriate transactions, I guess we can ignore the times.

The next problem is that you only provide the transaction details for the buy transaction and not the sell transaction.

So, after paying the 0.00001123 BTC fee for the buy, you have 0.01122 BTC. However, the net sale of 0.0111 BTC implies that you paid a fee of 1% on the sale. You don't provide transaction details of the sale.

In the end, it appears that your gain before fees is only 1.3%, but your fees are roughly 1.1%, leaving you with a profit of only about 0.2%

Moral of the story: most day traders eventually lose all of their money to fees.

Bitcoin was bullish although today except for few hours of bearish moments I guess you pulled out of the market too early. Always have this in mind if your analysis is right stick to your trade avoid pulling out too early. Congratulations $1 on your very first trade it is encouraging for a starter can't wait to make you pull out more $ from the market.

Are you sure you are using Spot trading?
Or was it margin trading or futures?
I am using Spot trading in Binance so far and I don't find any issues about the fees so far, and the fee of Spot trading is small enough.
But, if it is about margin and other tradings in Binance, it will be different
See this:
https://www.binance.com/en/fee/trading

That's right when there is a problem and you can't solve it yourself it's better to contact them,
I think it's the right step so that the problem can be resolved immediately,
but indeed they need time to be able to provide a solution or solve the problem so have to be patient

Dont make your trades last more than a day. Some trades eats a lot of trading fee especially if theres no volatility.
A friend of mine trades only on spike and makes a 100x leverage, he puts a target profit and once it hits, he stop trading. He reads the chart and wait for another opportunity.

The only way to answer you question is to ask the customer service if you really care about those fees, you just have to look for it. I'm using Binance and no problem so far, maybe the fees the time you trade was at its peak so better not to trade small again so your fees might be more worth it. Day trader also spend a lot of money on the fees, how many times you executed this trade? Better to look at your trade history.

so there's always a fee even you place your order once the leverage is getting higher,? actually i've been using binance and at first and i was wondering why there's a 1$ missing on my spot account after placing order and when i see that i have good profits for example $10 after closing my position, what i received is $9 only.. It's very confusing to be honest.
So it means if you have large amount to trade they will dump a big amount of fees as well wherein everytime you place and close order? Just asking.  ;)

So far the trading fee is in percentage, the higher amount you trade with the higher the fee, the higher the leverage, the high also the fee.

This is why I don't try leverage because I don't understand it like how it works on Forex where the spread is fixed. But isn't binance going to ask BNB as fees?

I'm doing Spot in Binance too but it seems easier in the spot since you just have to buy and wait for the price to go up and then dump, easier done than said to me.
Looks like he is in the spot by his post here. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5357909.msg57849233#msg57849233) It's just that he doesn't have BNB in his account.

There are two types of leverage you can go for on binance

• margin trading
• future trading

But to make it easier, going for future contract is better but margin trading support more coins than future trading.

For margin trading, 3x max for cross-margin while 10x max for isolated margin. If you trade with BNB with margin trading, you will be charged in BNB, if you trade with any coin of your choice, the fee will be deducted with the coin you are trading with.

For future contract, there are two types

• USD-M, which means your trading fund will be in USDT

• COIN-M, you trading fund will be in Bitcoin

Your trading fee will be charged with either one you used to trade, trading fee is deducted from the fund you use to trade.

This is the best conclusion you could have made from the current situation you are in. If you do not have enough money to make a bigger profit then trying to earn that extra 5 bucks will not be worth the time and effort you are putting in. Don't get me wrong you could try to make more money from the 500+ dollars you have, like putting it all on bitcoin right now seems like a good idea, or even eth, but if you did that a month ago it is surely would be a lot bigger right now.

The point here is not the capital you have, but how much you are aiming at and that means we are talking about a small amount here, trying to earn 5 dollars is the problem, even people with 20-30 bucks aim at 5 bucks, so having 500+ dollars, you should be aiming to make a lot more money and not only this much. You should learn a bit more about trading and come back later.

Did you use market order or limit order? Generally, there is a small slippage that you pay in market order because the market order tries to sell your coins at whatever rate it can get to sell, I think that might have been the case. or you might be calculating fees wrongly, fees are charged on both buying as well as selling so you should multiply the fees by two for proper calculation. These two charges are generally the reason why you end up paying some extra charges. Unless you are just practicing trading and not doing it to earn money these small trades will make sense but if you want to make some money trading you need at least a thousand dollars to start with.

You have a good point that it can be a market order used to place the trade and also when closing the trade, but there is still a certain amount of fee that will be removed even if it is limit order that is used, in margin trading, the liquidity is very high and this makes the market order to almost have similar price to the limit order if the limit order is placed so close to the present price of the coin traded in the market.

About trading, you do not know if he is a new trader or not, new traders are not advisable to use high amount of money to trade, $50 is still enough, his subsequent winnings or losses will let him determine if to increase the trading amount or not.

I don't think OP is talking about margin trading, I think he is talking about the profit margin of $5 he made in the trade, margin here doesn't means the leverage he took, my answer was based on this assumption that OP is trading in spot and made a margin of this much, secondly he has clearly written he made his first day trade today so he definitely is a new day trader for sure.

The fee you are quoting here are somewhat insignificant,  the centralized exchange is still the best when it comes to fee for trading and that come at a cost of losing the custody of your asset to third party!  People pay lots of fee on decentralized exchange like uniswap and of course,  you are have control of your asset! Buy and large,  Cryptocurrency is the only place where you can pay stipend to move millions of dollars!

This is not just happening to you, it has also happened to me and I can't understand these high binance fees, see that I trade binance for years and in the last few months it seems that they increased the trade rate, as I don't trust other exchanges much I still use binance, but don't worry, you're not the only one who doesn't understand these binance fees.


it reminds me of a day I paid $34 fee and stopped using uniswap

OP already answered and he will not be doing it anymore. But actually I wanted to just point our your mistake. There is fees charged only on closing a trade, I do not know any exchange that will ask you to pay fee to keep your trades open (unless you are doing forex then you may have overnight interest).

Some coins have too much fee, and when someone buy them then it is too difficult for the users, As i can give you an example, yesterday when i was selling my Ping Token then i put his slippage 12% , when i sell it, that requires more than 10 dollars of fee, so i was in losing all these dollars when selling it.