Bitcoin Forum

Just interested to hear people's reasoning for wanting NON-KYC bitcoin.  Im guessing its so that one can deny ownership from "the man"

There are obvious reasons why people choose to transact with BTC. Two of them are privacy and the no intermediary that would potentially hold your funds.

Are you talking about the tax man or authorities with "the man"? I don't know everyone's stand on taxation and regulation but there could be some people trying to evade taxes or avoid getting flagged by using bitcoin.

Probably so they don’t have to pay taxes on profits. I know that I would love to avoid paying tax on bitcoin when I sell. I’ve been HODLING many coins for over 7 years, it doesn’t feel fair that I should have to pay 20% tax on profits.

There's no called NON-KYC bitcoin, Bitcoin is Bitcoin just like a currency. I guess what you mean is tainted/dirty Bitcoin which come from hacking, casino or something illegal in some countries?

Usually many users want clean Bitcoin because the local exchange doesn't accept tainted Bitcoin, want to hide from police/gov/fbi etc or can be called money laundering.

I understand we didn't even know our Bitcoin Islam dirty or clean if we bought from exchange or got from someone, but I think there are some requirements before police sued/suspect someone.

IMO as long as you used decentralized exchange and it's doesn't come from illegal on your country, you'll be fine.

CMIIW

Bitcoin is already a "non-kyc" coin. We don't need to make any KYC or send any documents to be able to hold bitcoins.

Exchanges may (or not) require your documents because regulations demand them to do so. This is specially true when we are talking about tax gains, just like @LFC_Bitcoin said. THis is why regulations are so strict on exchanges, because governments wants taxes over your gains.

Although it is possible to avoid some taxes, it is very unlikely that we will be able to avoid all tax gains....

In my country we are able to sell about 6k USD per month without paying any taxes. This is a low value, but it is a way to avoid some taxes, even when you do KYC...

tl;dr it's for privacy purposes. With bitcoin being bought from non-kyc exchanges, it means that affiliation between the you and the coins will be significantly harder. Whether it's for tax avoidance, for sketchy payments purposes, or just simply the fact that the person is privacy paranoid(which isn't really a bad thing).

"The man" = government. Remember when they tried to take everyone's gold?

if you use KYC coin, privacy will certainly feel insecure and of course the data we have can be misused. especially when transacting, of course the taxes imposed on people who exchange Bitcoin will be suspended from state taxes, if the regulations of a country have legalized bitcoin. so what we need is secure transaction privacy and bitcoin already has Non KYC

I personally refuse to use any KYC in crypto in general, because the whole point of using bitcoin and altcoins is to stay anonymous and to be able to send and receive transactions without having to worry about you identity, because the anonymity is what makes it way secure, so if you are telling me that i need to give my personal information in order to use a currency, than why i should not be using fiat and paying through the banks since it is more trusted.

If that's a government then it won't be a problem if you buy Bitcoins with or without KYC on some exchanges because you can just withdraw them from exchanges and use any mixer so that your Bitcoin is non-traceable. It can't be easily found by someone or even the government that is why there are many mixing services out there to help your BTC untraceable.

Are you afraid of tax?
I'm sure they only ask for some tax if they see a large transaction was being withdrawn from exchanges but here in my country, there is no tax yet except for those who playing Axie. That is why P2P is very common here to avoid some fees and taxes.

Why should I want KYC coin? Look at it from this angle; I complete KYC to hodl/transact the coin. When I make a transaction of $300, it'll show that me oktana sent $300 (Knowing that much about someone in this space is crossing the boundaries IMO). Let's just have it decentralized and that's it. If it asks for KYC, you'll see a very less number of people. We love being anonymous!

The biggest reason I've heard for people not supporting KYC.

Is they disagree with the united states spending taxes to wage war in afghanistan. They disagree with big stimulus spending. They do not support closing the keystone oil pipeline to make americans more dependant upon foreign oil, while significantly raising the cost of gas in some US states.

There definitely is a market and a demographic seeking to become more independent and distance themselves from many big government policies, which are unpopular among the majority of people.

That could comprise the largest demographic resisting KYC in tokens, coins and cryptocurrencies.

The thing is seeing anyone who wants kyc coin is weird, nobody wants that. And if you do then good for you, but I sure don't. Getting it decentralized would be way better like Oktana said. It's just the norm of things. The idea of anyone needing to pass a kyc to hold coins when Bitcon itself is a non kyc coin is absurd.
I mean releasing most of your credentials on crypto platforms is just down right a bad idea, take it from me. The Crypto platform might even be a scam or hackers might get hold of your information. Everyone wants to be anonymous when dealing with crypto.

When you have crypto, you do not have to KYC or submitted any document to the third party but if you buy crypto in the exchanges, you need to submit your details info to them.

You can buy any coins in a forum so you do not reveal your identity to others. People want to avoid KYC is because they do not want to see the government know their activity in crypto.

Let's create a transnational network. Find allies in other countries and you won't be subject to another personal income tax. I know some international students who are still trading cryptocurrencies in the US and they have been looking for ways to not be taxed. They withdraw money in the country where they were born.

For me, people want non kyc coin because bitcoin did not require kyc at the 1st place. And most kyc coins are liable to expose people's identity which can lead to identity theft.
Ive seen many cases why people's identity are being used for scamming activities.

Taxes aren't fair,but we have to pay them. :(
If you hate capital gains tax,then you should've moved to a country that doesn't have capital gains tax.
I don't see anyone wanting a non-KYC Bitcoin.KYC is the "price" we have to pay,in order to witness mass Bitcoin/crypto adoption.All financial services require KYC verification-opening a bank account or FOREX trading account,applying for a credit card,etc.The crypto industry isn't more privileged than the traditional finance industry.The rules are for everyone.
What do you mean by "deny ownership from the man"?Can you elaborate more on this?

People especially those who are into cryptocurrency want privacy and anonymity so the government couldn't track them. Also, they want to protect their personal information because some coins that require KYC are risky. Keeping our private identity is too important but others prefer security more than anonymity.

Data security guarantees cannot guarantee the safe storage of KYC data. If used by criminals it will harm us. I really don't like KYC but it seems like all administration is forcing us to fill it. Have you received word that currently binance has required all members to fill out KYC. Actually if there is a guarantee of security we will feel calmer. But I understand their business needs data to comply with regulations, so it's like a relationship that we have to fulfill because we need each other.

What I like the most is that there are no third-party transactions and it is clear that many people want to remain private and anonymous so Non KYC coins are one of the most preferred.
Just imagine if this could be controlled by the government how much should be paid in taxes while the gains in bitcoin are significant in a few years? Of course it will be bigger and it won't be much in the way.

I don't want identity to be one of the ingredients of abuse and indeed this has been a lot but only in exchange but in transactions we remain decentralized.

That's also my point. I would love to keep my personal details privately so as much as possible, i will choose a non-KYC coin so that if i end up gaining huge profits then i won't have to pay the tax that will be associated in it. Its definitely a hard time for us investors to pay the tax that we cannot benefit in the end, yet we are obliged to pay.

But since most of the coins right now are already asking for KYC then we have no choice but to comply with it. After all, at least we can help others through our hard earned investments.

That's also the good thing about having KYC to have more security rather than anonymity. But its not only the bases so we can be more secured with our coins. We should also be responsible and careful when choosing exchanges and as much as possible, DYOR first so we can have those legit and reliable ones wherein  our real identities will also be safe and secured.

For me, either you end up having KYC or non-KYC coin the important is you also do your part. Learn to be more cautious in everything you do because if you do even a single mistake, you will never get rid of its consequences and you get to suffer with it.

How is having KYC increase security though? Though I never recommend unnecessarily leaving funds on exchanges, Binance has fared really well in the past few years with them not requiring KYC(for sub 2 BTC withdrawals). Having KYC means even your personal security is actually harmed if it's the case that the exchange's KYC database gets breached. (e.g. Ledger database breach)

When holding Bitcoin without KYC, you have to keep in mind 2 VERY important things:

1) Never trash private keys to any of your wallets. It might be needed to prove by signature when exactly you bought the coin. It has to be plausible that you were able to afford the Bitcoin you have, otherwise they'll assume you got it illegally. I'm getting back to that later.

2) You cannot evade taxes, no matter how much you hate them. It's a big crime in most countries and you don't wanna get caught doing it.

2.1) If you live in a country where only capital gains tax is collected, you can easily buy non-KYC coin, never tell anyone and have your privacy. Also in case e.g. government turns super evil and wants to seize BTC (like they did with gold), they won't know you have any. However, when you'll want to sell it or buy something, you'll be 'de-anonymised' and asked where the funds come from. By still having the private key to the address the funds arrived in, e.g. a transaction for 100BTC in 2012, you can prove you were able to afford 100 Bitcoin in a certain point in time (like 2012 in this example) since you owned ~1000 bucks and spent them on BTC. If not, esp. if the funds moved through a mixer recently, they must assume you acquired them recently and if you're not a top-earner it's unrealistic you acquired them legally.

2.2) If your country collects wealth tax, which means you have to declare at the end of each year how much 'stuff' you possess, you HAVE to declare how much / many Bitcoin you have yearly. Otherwise, when you'll want to spend a large portion of your holdings in the future, even proving you own the coins for a long time won't help you since that way you'll prove you evaded taxes every year. If you try to show you acquired it recently, at a value of millions of dollars / euros, etc., you'll be questioned how you made that much money within a year. In any way, you won't be questioned for a public key / address, so you can still hold your non-KYC coin anonymously, your identity won't be tied to an address, since they just want to know the fiat valuation of your holdings.

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For the tax-evasion interested here in this topic: do consider moving to Germany in the future when you'll want to 'cash out', maybe a few years prior. At least under current German and Austrian law, if you held for at least 1 year (e.g. by showing the coins didn't move for a year), all gains are tax-free. There is also no wealth tax on the holdings, so no need to declare anything until you spend.

If you do try to look back on what kind of market we've been dealing off then this is something that you cant really say that this is where KYC shouldn't really be a thing.

Everyone do love anonymity and this is why we do love no-kyc kind of investment specially dealing with sales or prelaunch thing but depending on your risk management take because

there are instances on where there are exemptions specially if the project is truly exceptional and really does have a potential

Bitcoin was created for financial freedom, for privacy purposes, and this interpretation will keep addressing not to use KYC procedures while accepting cryptocurrency and bitcoin is the best example for that. The reason is you can hide your profit and such thing there are bad guys hiding behind on bitcoin and since our government was against fraud since the start and bitcoin a tool for them that is why there is need a KYC in most country. Tax evasion was the most common case that I found why they are hiding their asset on bitcoin.

KYC as a procedure of identity verification was invented by the banks so that they were able to control who could enter the system and who didn't. The traditional system relies on identity verification to prevent terrorists, opposition, criminals, and other unwanted persons from accessing the financial system. Whether or not it has been successful in doing so is the question of another topic. Bitcoin was created to stay permissionless forever. At a protocol level, it doesn't require nor contain any personal details and allowing everyone to join and participate. So, why do we want non-KYC coins? Because, otherwise, if there would only be KYC coins, we would merely be replicating a traditional system of permission access, which would result in the same mistakes being made once again. Bitcoin, however, is supposed to fix what the traditional system has done wrong.
  

You're not gonna successfully tax evade millions in Bitcoin, though. I guess yes, for small amounts, but nothing larger.
I get it for privacy and anonymity, but you must declare holdings or profits, depending on jurisdiction, with larger amounts to prevent landing in jail.

And people wanted to keep themselves anonymous to anyone. Though KYC is still an option, it has come to the point that most exchanges are asking for it when creating an account. They are the reason why it loses the anonymity feature of crypto, we are urged to do this which is very unlikely especially when we don't want to do it.  Maybe we have to start accepting the reality that we are almost losing the anonymity feature we have and it is probably lost it totally in the future.

What are you talking about? Let me give you an example in the case of the Netherlands:

You can buy Bitcoin without exchanges, p2p or on a decentralized non-KYC exchange like https://bisq.network/.
You never have to give anyone your public keys, so you're absolutely anonymous when purchasing through Bitcoin.
To avoid tax evasion, you declare that you hold e.g. 20,000€ in Bitcoin end of year, and pay your wealth tax, but nobody still knows which address belongs to you. You can receive Bitcoin, send it, all without anyone knowing who these addresses belong to.

As Bitcoin's value increases and maybe you also accumulate more, you just declare the new value of your holdings at the end of the next year etc.

When your holdings will reach e.g. 20 million € in 20 years (exemplary numbers), you will have a 'paper trail' showing that you accumulated year after year + your holdings increased together with Bitcoin's value increase, so nobody will question where suddenly those 20 million € come from.

You were simultaneously anonymous AND complied with all laws and paid your taxes, which means you'll be able to 'cash out' those non-KYC coins in the far future without issues.

It's not so hard! :)

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PS: If your goal is to evade taxes using Bitcoin and it doesn't work out due to different reasons, it's not Bitcoin's fault, it's your fault ^{because you shouldn't do that in general} :D

Bitcoin is decentralized, anonymous. We use bitcoin instead of fiat because we want privacy and safety. If we use KYC it's no different than we use fiat, privacy and identity, personal data is controlled by the government or third parties and it is possible that our personal data will be used for malicious purposes. Would you like that to happen to yourself?. Definitely not, no one likes that.

That's usually because they don't want to be difficult in buying bitcoin. KYC usually also takes a short time to process. Sometimes it takes up to 2 weeks depending on how long they are. Some people want bitcoin instantly without a long process. Therefore bitcoin non kyc is their solution.

most people's interest in non kyc coins or exchanges. because kyc always danger for our personal security issue, it can be use in illegal stuffs.
binance given access to use their exchange without kyc, required kyc for big portfolio.

There is no such thing as NON KYC coins but any coins you buy from a centralized exchange which you have submitted IDs already, its already linked to you even if it's XMR.

But if you have not submitted KYC documents yet to any exchanges, that's good for you. Because in case there will be a crackdown of BTC owners you are safe. it's a precaution. If you wanna stay that way then better avoid submitting KYC data and be private.

Bitcoin is NON KYC why do you say there are bitcoins that use KYC. From my experience, using KYC is when we register for a cryptocurrency exchange account or when participating in a bounty that asks participants to make KYC so that there is no account forgery or account duplication.

The issue is, if you withdraw those coins from the exchange, the exchange knows you have a certain amount of Bitcoin and the corresponding address. Even if you transfer those funds onto another address, that will be traceable through the blockchain.
We call such coins 'KYC coins' because for the exchange and anyone asking it (like your government) it's easy to trace the coins, and see what you spend them on, who you send them to, etc.

That's what people mean when speaking about 'KYC Bitcoin'. They're connected to your identity and you can and will be traced through that information.

I also agree the tax are kyc dreaded side effects, but in my country, right getting the eye of the federal government and even economic and financial crime commission eyes on you are also why people don't prefer KYC, lately the central bank of Nigeria governor advice against the use of crypto-currency saying it's a tool that brings about crime, KYC makes people vulnerable to the federal government in my country and can they can go as far as an arrest.

KYC would mean a little bit hassle on our part but since its already required in most exchanges then we have to comply with it. Even in our day to day activity, just like going in a bank or any remittances to claim money or any stuffs, KYC is also required. So there's no way we can escape from KYC issue since its already part of our daily routine particularly in this time of  pandemic where  every company needs to have an access to its customers.

However, talking about a non KYC coin, bitcoin is definitely a good example on it since its a decentralized coin. I personally want a decentralized coin not just for privacy purposes but also as much as possible i want to keep all my coins secured far from the government's hidden purposes. You know its always good to remain anonymous in every transactions we made with bitcoin but seeing the future of bitcoin soon to be fully legalized and adopted then maybe we should start accepting that KYC will always be a part of bitcoin.

It’s twice easier to work without KYC. It’s not just about BTC. It’s easier to work with markets that don’t have an obligatory KYC registration to trade. A lot of traders want to stay anonymous and crypto gives this opportunity. KYC registration is ruining everything. KYC is applied to “know your client” (to know traders). But sometimes there occur a lot of problems with this KYC registration. Once after Bounty campaign I get a reward and saw that token is listed on the market where an obligatory KYC registration and in addition to passport they need utility bills on your name and in English. I had problems with this so I got reward but had no opportunity to use it because of KYC.

They prefer to keep their identity a secret, and perhaps they are avoiding taxes. And in fact to have bitcoin is not required identity. Giving your identity to other parties is a disadvantage, they may use it for personal gain. Of course this is without the owner's identity knowing.

Avoinding Taxes is also the reason why Government keeps on pushing themselves to be part of crypto. Gone are the days that we can freely use or cashout any amount of crypto without them knowing, there is app that easily converts our crypto to our fiat before but now it became too stricter and blocked users with high amount transactions since they pursue a KYC almost every transaction says to avoid AML. It’s better to have Non KYC coins   if cashing out will be easily accessible but if the area is not yet fully grown and only banks or government related institutions is the way to make it as fiat then it will just be the same. Just always make sure that the platform have the right to conduct KYC to you.

KYC takes a considerable amount of time in its review process. Some people need bitcoin immediately so they choose to buy bitcoin on a non KYC exchange. The KYC process should be accepted as quickly as possible in order for everyone to be interested in KYC. KYC is also very important in maintaining the security of an exchange from money laundering.

Taxes is the thing that these greedy government needs to be involved with, it's something lucrative on their part I suppose. No wonder this will be part of the whole in the future, these regulations but I think it take amount of time for some consideration. Everyone wants to stay anonymous as possibly as they could not to disclose how much you own or not to harm their personal information online.

I'm wondering though, how you'll want to cash out millions of dollars, euros, etc. in a couple years without the authorities noticing. It's better to pay 20% taxes than landing in jail or only being able to spend tiny fractions of your holdings at a time to remain 'low profile'..

It is impossible to cash out huge amounts without the authorities knowing. The best option is always pay the taxes and live peacefully as you are not going to get away with it and the pressure of doing these illegally will make anyone weak mentally. You can withdraw small amount within the limit and the authorities will not come chasing but with huge amounts there is no way you can get away.

There are ways but what is the end result if you set up a company in free heavens, the risk is higher and if there is any investigation then you will be caught either way.

People, especially bitcoin users, demand privacy and anonymity so that the government cannot track them. They also want to safeguard their personal information because some coins requiring KYC are hazardous. While maintaining our anonymity is extremely important to us, others value security over anonymity.

Well because of these words, ^privacy, and ^security why do people want non-KYC coins.
We need a decentralized platform and a truly decentralized platform will truly give privacy and there should not require any KYC form.
Simple as that.

Go Monero (XMR) if you want some real privacy and anonymity for whatever reason.

That the preference of individual who keep their identity anonymous and private, because most people is afraid of security breaching. It doesn't matter if we don't confirm ourselves to strangers, so keeping ourselves safe from any fraudulent activities much better if we stay confidential on our personal data. I only provide my personal information with trading site which I usually transact with, but for those non trusted I choose not to divulge everything from my end.