Bitcoin Forum

At the moment, Ukraine has already adopted laws that significantly liberalize the position of the cryptocurrency in the domestic market. There are many plans to further expand the ability to apply and use cryptocurrency in different areas of the economy. Considering that the gambling business (casinos, slot machines, etc.) in Ukraine is also well developed and formalized, what can you say about the investment potential of Ukraine for the Gambling direction?

- Are you ready to potentially play on sites that will be located, or will be registered, in Ukraine?
- To become a key set of "features" for you that would attract you?
- What will be negative for you when placing gambling sites in Ukraine?

If I'm not mistaken recently the Ukrainian government has set a tax for all gambling activities which has been set at 10% of all forms of gambling activities, whether this is the effect of crypto being illegal in Ukraine or there are other factors, Obviously it's been validated.

What I want to say is: in Ukraine there are several gambling casinos that I know are growing quite rapidly there, although there are pros and cons, it's a common casino thing I know like: Billionaire Casino, Casino Slots City, Sports Poker Club, Kyivcasinos and many others, on the positive side if crypto is legalized for the Ukrainian people, it will make it easier for every online casino in Ukraine to promote their site by facilitating digital currency for bettors, that's a positive side, I'm not talking about a negative side.

Conclusion: something new life has been found in Ukraine both about crypto investing and in the world of online gambling, I hope Ukraine can grow the economy back by adopting crypto and changing gambling rules, a good start.

^ Yes, there is an existing discussion about the Ukraine tax proposal on this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5342429.0 and I think this topic must move to the Gambling discussion board. However, in my own opinion regarding your question, this is a good start for Ukraine to boost its economy, we know that there are a lot of gambling businesses in the gambling industry and they are keep growing rapidly. Why not if we will try to play gambling sites that are located in Ukraine, if the site is fully operated legally then that is fine for me.

In Ukraine, historically, the attitude towards cryptocurrencies and the gambling market has been quite soft and loyal. Now, the cryptocurrency has actually received the green light for use, in almost any direction. And it seems to me that the combination of cryptocurrency + gambling is a huge potential both for the development of direct business (casinos, etc.) and related "service" ones, and of attracting investments by itself.

Many gamblers are ready to play on sites located in Ukraine as long as those sites do not have complicated rules and do not apply KYC for crypto players. As I said, if gamblers know the site does not require KYC, they will try to play on that site and maybe if they can feel comfortable playing on that site, they will stay for some time.

The negative thing that can happen is that people from other countries can slowly become addicted to gambling, which can trigger a new problem for their government. But that will depend on each gambler and if they can have self-control, they do not have to worry about that.

It seems to me that in addition to the legalization of crypto, some of the existing potential in the gambling market, there is also an excellent development school in Ukraine. The result is a "complete set" for a good start, for the construction of a new, comprehensively attractive, international site, similar to such gaming locations as for example Malta, Gibraltar, the Isle of Man and the like.

The location for a cryptocurrency casino is not that important. I doubt that many players even know where the online casinos they play at have their headquarters. A casino can become trustworthy with or without a gambling license, and I have never heard of a Ukrainian gambling provider that deals with crypto. Usually, when gambling licenses are acquired, the platforms have to conduct stricter security checks of their players. That doesn't suit those who play with crypto. So, as long as anonymity is preserved and players aren't getting cheated, I wouldn't find it troublesome to play at an Ukrainian casino.   

The KYC issue goes beyond local legislation and is part of international legislation aimed at obtaining illegal profits, concealing income, money laundering, etc. illegal actions. It is not believed that officially licensed online casinos will risk violating such laws, which is highly likely to lead to the revocation of the license, at least, and at most also fines. I understand that anonymity is one of the unique advantages, but this property contradicts the KYC, unfortunately

In this case, the advantage for migrating / opening a casino will be:
- tax holidays for gambling business
- the official status of the cryptocurrency (as an additional tool in the world of gambling)
- very comfortable tax rates

Maybe those casinos need to modify the KYC process or verification to work globally, especially for a casino website that hosts in Ukraine or maybe changing their whitelist countries for gamblers who want to play gambling on their site. Hence, there is no chance for gamblers on the blacklist countries to play gambling on that site. I do not think that licensed online casinos will violate their regulations because they will get a warning from the country.

If a country is favorable towards a certain activity, then I don't see any issue for the players not to play on an Ukraine based casino. Especially in crypto gambling market, where reputation holds the highest standard than anything else.

But I believe Ukraine has some legal limitations of language. In an .uk domain, the contents must be written in Russian. Also if a website is being hosted from an Ukraine based server, the same limitation applies. That might become a blocker to reach the rest of the world.

Until now, cryptocurrencies in Ukraine still do not have official legality from the government, although their citizens have been allowed to buy or exchange them on exchanges, they are not allowed to be used as a means of payment and this is not much different from what happened in my country.
If ukraine officially legalized cryptocurrencies of course they would be the fifth country to have officially adopted bitcoin in their country's laws after El Salvador, Cuba, Germany and also Panama, but from some of the news I got, if the law is still in draft even though it gets a unanimous vote in their parliament, it is reported that the Ukrainian government will pass the law in 2023.

You have a slightly incorrect information. I will discard the unnecessary part, I will voice only the necessary one - the site DOES NOT HAVE to be ONLY in Ukrainian. If the site is international, the Ukrainian version should be present, but it does not have the status of the only one! In Ukraine, the state language is Ukrainian, but all other languages are not prohibited and are freely circulating. Especially in relation to private business and an international project. So there has never been a language problem in Ukraine!

I do not see any particular limiting reasons for the cryptocurrency not to receive the status of a means of payment in Ukraine. Including in the status of a means of payment of bets and receipt of winnings. I am sure that in the next 1-2 years, packages of documents will be developed regulating the full use of cryptocurrencies on the territory of Ukraine, areas of application, restrictions, etc. that will form a complete legislative picture, understandable, transparent and attractive for investors.

There's really no problem for me at all, for as long as the platform that I'm using is duly registered and not involved in shady dealings and whatnot. Most of the time, gamblers only look for reliable providers/platforms and those that aren't shady before they start placing bets. Be it registered in Malta, Ukraine, the US, or anywhere, if the platform is honest enough, registered, offers good bonuses and has provably-fair games, I don't see people having any problems with it.

What I know from several articles is that there are several polemics about this and the biggest one is that the Ukrainian committee said the final tax rate of 10% was too small to be a form of gambling control. The tax rate needs to be optimally set as a control policy over gambling legalization decisions that will take effect starting in the 2020 fiscal year.
this is not without reason because they think that "low tax rates are unjustifiable, because taxes [gambling activities] should be imposed with the aim of limiting consumption". directly means they legalize but still provide a little tax burden so that people there are not too addicted to gambling.
yes, this will greatly benefit them both in terms of finance and fame and it is not impossible with something like this it will add new gamblers there even though there is a tax but I don't think it will be a big problem because considering gamblers especially beginners only focus on profit only.
Even though there are many pros and cons, the policy has been made and passed, whether you want it or not, you just have to accept it gracefully.

Yep. This doesn't matter where gambling site is located. Most of them are also in offshores and other "gray" territories.


Good poker rooms  ;D
But it's really hard things to do for slav casino owner. Much easier is to create brainless slots and dice.


Slav mentality: Greediness is the major problem. 

What's wrong with Ukraine? If they legalize gambling and cryptocurrency that's a good news and if some gambling site offer a good services from that place then why not play? As long as you feel the security of your funds then you're ok, it doesn't mean where its located. We all wanted this, crypto adoption so there should be discrimination with regards to country origin, we all supported cryptocurrency and if its legalized, that can benefit all of us.

This is why we have to understand the ToS before playing on any crypto gambling site, if you feel unsafe then better not to play at all. There’s a pros and cons of legalizing gambling in Ukraine of course, and its for them to find out that because we are living outside Ukraine, but if they make legalize Cryptocurrency that’s the only time for us to get affected positively.

Have you heard about it? Former chair of Ukraine’s regulator arrested on bribery charges (https://igamingbusiness.com/former-chair-of-ukraines-regulator-arrested-on-bribery-charges/)

News like this will impact the attractiveness for gambling companies in Ukraine. However, I can't say if the impact will be positive or negative. It can be positive as it's a signal authorities don't neglect corruption even in high spheres of power, assuring companies which might settle themselves there that they can count on the law forces to fight blackmail attempts from corrupt agents back.

Or it can be negative, if gambling businesses see these news as an warning to avoid getting involved with Ukrainian regulators, otherwise they might be blackmailed as well.

Personally I think news like this are positive for the country's attractiveness.

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For gamblers, however, as it was already mentioned, casino regulation's origin country doesn't matter, since they are legit, offer good promotions, low house edge and a vast number of games.

Their plan is good. They really construct a newly terms and regulations about their gambling involving cryptocurrency.

But just a question, is Ukraine a crypto-friendly before or just thinks of adopting crypto recently?

If it's the former then I see adopting crypto to their gambling business will boost the adoption of cryptocurrencies there specifically bitcoin.

They are crypto friendly since 2018 as far as I know and now they are soon to legalize Bitcoin as a legal tender so I believe they are crypto friendly. If they make a good changes on their gambling policy that includes crypto gambling, then that could be a more good news for crypto users and they might also offer services outside their country so they can reach more people. I'm hoping as well that my country sees the importance of cryptocurrency nowadays, legalizing Bitcoin is always the target.

- Are you ready to potentially play on sites that will be located, or will be registered, in Ukraine?

Why not? In crypto-gambling, what matters for me are features, promotions, bonuses, etc. regardless of where the site is registered or established.

- To become a key set of "features" for you that would attract you?

Don't have a specific answer to this. It's like if there's something "unique" and "good", it will attract me.

- What will be negative for you when placing gambling sites in Ukraine?

Hmmm. Maybe if there's part of the terms that I don't prefer. One example is, mandatory KYC and restricted locations. I also has a habit of using VPN.

Thanks for the information. Since they will soon making bitcoin as legal tender just like what El Salvador did, it's expected now that they are implenting and adopting bitcoin slowly in usual businesses and establishments. In the side of gambling, since it's more sensitive than the other industries, Ukraine really needs to create and form strict laws and restriction about the use of cryptocurrencies in their gambling.

But is that will lead for a centralized gambling in crypto? It might turned as how fiat gambling on that country is regulated. Not a good news I guess for the majority of crypto gamblers.

Well, it isn't out of the question for them to set up a crypto casino, but I don't think it matters much where it came from? Sure, it may release them from some specific requirements but I hardly doubt it would affect their overall operations THAT much. Not to mention that there are a bunch more of other crypto casinos out there that are much more reputable. If they were to create an offline casino with crypto payments then maybe though honestly it doesn't sound that appealing since you can play online with it anyway. A cross between fiat and crypto may work out though.

Kyc had been a problem many person are trying the possible best to prevent because of the rails involved. This might even make the country to request for Kyc of there gamblers in the country if things get worse. Dropping your identification on gambling site looks irrational to me. For what? When there is still hundreds of gambling sites that do not need kyc.

Here is another part of the question - this is investment attractiveness, for example, why, given the current trends, Ukraine does not become a new virtual center for gambling, such as Monaco and the like?
But with a significant advantage - not only the center of virtual gambling sites, but also cryptocurrency payments, and / or their combination, this is me about solutions from the field of cryptocurrency virtual gambling sites. For example, Monaco officially allows accepting cryptocurrency bets, exchanging, and withdrawing fiat / crypto?

Monaco and Ukraine do have a wide gap. Monaco already achieved the highest point of gambling status there. On the part of Ukraine, we can say they are still in the progress of working as a wide stream gambling center where they accept crypto and fiat. Give them time and they will reach and achieved soon that status.


Correct. Casinos operating under the Ukraine regulations or license won't be that noticeable in crypto-gambling due to the fact that there are now big and dominant crypto-gambling sites that everyone is mostly used.

Maybe others will just try a casino under Ukraine jurisdiction or any other license source if there's something interesting on that casino that's nowhere to be found in other sites.

Probably no, i'm willing to check out casinos that are registered in Ukraine or any country as long as they don't have KYC but on the other hand knowing that the government is in involved then KYC is inevitable.

In crypto gambling sites, some features that I like are the instant deposits and withdrawals. Having some adaptability and reward system like vips would be nice as well.

The downsides that I don't like is high minimums specifically the deposits and withdrawals. If it's only limited to Ukraine based gambling sites it's most likely the KYC due to the regulations of the government.

Even before crypto was not legal, you go walk around, you are bound to find high end gambling places, with sports betting and everything as well. Situated right next to a bar and a currency exchange lol. Sums up how much people love to drink and gamble here.

What I do know is, with cryptocurrencies people would have more opportunities and most of these physical casinos will be located around center.

Taking about gambling sites, I do think it's important to make sure they are using English as well and is better made, since online ukranian sites are something that has a lot of unexplored potential. It's not that good.

High likely that they will implement KYC to track Ukranian players. Otherwise, they will just tax the casino itself, that is, if it is operating under Ukraine. And nowadays, a lot of crypto gamblers are looking for sites without KYC as well as no restrictions when it comes to their originating country. And luckily, there are really reputable casinos here that doesn't require both.

When the crypto will become legal in any country like Ukraine, it will bring boom in many industry which are directly linked with crypto. Gambling is one the industry which will be most benefit from it. However i think the KYC data from the Ukraine gambling sites should be shared with government so that they can get taxes but this will make people not using the Ukraine sites and play on international gambling sites.

KYC and the taxes will be the Ukrainian government to know the background of the players because they want to check that people who visit on the gambling site or casino related to the illegal thing or are just playing gambling because of having fun. Crypto gambling users will search for the casino that does not require both KYC and tax to just playing gambling and so far, they already have many lists of the casino they want.

I'm just excited to see that how they'll make it better for the gamblers to visit those Ukrained registered online casinos.
There's a big competition on this but they can be the oligarch on their own country and leading those gamblers not to gamble with any other casinos but only to the registered one on their country.

On the first point I absolutely agree - it's silly to argue that Monaco has years of development of the gaming market behind it, this is a powerful advantage. But for example, a noticeably lower tax and additional attractive conditions (tax holidays, installments when buying a license, etc.) are competitive advantages that can be attractive. Until a decision is made to transfer the company to another jurisdiction.

Why not we should welcome new players in the industry we should give Ukraine based or registered based gambling sites as long as they offer the same compliant and protection like those being offered by established gambling license issuers,

 
As long as gambling sites located in Ukraine are reputable and they adhere to government compliant of being fair to their players I will nbot ask for me


I will not discriminate when it comes to what country a gambling site is based in as long as they are fair and compliant and they know how to listen to what the gambling community ask or recommend

If its a good website I wouldn't mind and btw whoever is running a gambling business that is online they need to to limit their reach to only Ukrainians let them expand their business to include people from all parts of the world because with cryptocurrencies the possibilities are endless.


Maybe language barrier would be the only thing but as far as i know most of these site are multilingual so this isn't much of a problem besides this maybe KYC requirements would be a hindering factor.

in order for cryptocurrency-related gambling sites to start going to ukraine license or even locate in ukraine they would need to see if ukraine's laws regarding gambling are advantageous or not. if ukraine has tough laws, has high taxes then it won't attract gambling site owners and this doesn't just apply to gambling, it even applies to exchanges.

does anyone here know what is the requirement to have a gambling license in ukraine for this discussion to be more interesting?

I do think that what makes or breaks the potential players of a casino is the "KYC function" where it slightly defeats the purpose of anonymity. While I do understand that government regulations or laws require gambling establishments to have KYC documents, this would backlash against the business as most gamblers nowadays avoid such function and registration.

With regard to Ukraine's potential attractiveness for gambling, this would still depend on the tax imposed by the government. If the tax is not that abusive, then it definitely has potential to attract and start a new business of online gambling in the country using cryptocurrencies.

Everything is going to depend on whether or not they think there is a demand for this, I mean accepting bitcoin for the casinos cannot be too different than what they are already doing, they just need to accept a bitcoin deposit and then give you some chips and when it is time to leave then they can pay you in either bitcoin or fiat, and if you choose bitcoin then they pay you with bitcoin at the current rate, they do not even need to have some bitcoin stored, they could buy it right there and give it to you, so I do not think there could be any issue with the implementation of something like this.

According to what I read about the Ukraine gambling rules, there's nothing like foreign been restricted from gambling investment.
People from the region where gambling is not restricted can play in Ukraine registered company more so their activities result are fair.

Still can't decide this because I am trying to understand all their gambling rules on https://gc.gov.ua/ but unfortunately there's English version of it yet.

Language barrier and their no support for arcades game licence.

What are the big changes you can expect, the freebies they used to provide will be reduced as they are paying the taxes and whether it will change the infrastructure is a big question. Lets see how different it can be, i am not travelling to Ukraine anytime soon but i would like to hear whether there is any standard stipulation they need to follow simply because they started to tax every casino.

We'd be happy to visit it and take a gamble to test what makes it different from other sites, because usually sites that are legal and fairly free are protected by Ukrainian rules and are quite different.
As for the negative values, it all goes back to the views of the people there, whether it disturbs the stability of the individual economy or actually provides fun entertainment. There must also be a positive value, so it all depends on how wisely the casino is legalized with the applicable rules and regulations.

If the implementation of KYC is enforced, then those of us who intend to visit gambling sites there must enter the same rules? So we will obviously avoid this especially since we are outside the Ukraine. The taxation system of gambling proceeds is it good enough if it is combined with other income? It sounds quite exaggerated, because the nature of taxation is a result that is not obtained from an action / activity of betting.