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New traders always try to eliminate losses and see losses as something bad. My breakthrough in trading came when I started seeing losses as expenses (business expenses). Trading is a business and you should see it that way.

When I follow my strategy and I lose, I see it a the price I have to pay to get it right, because there is no 100% strategy and since I don't know which trade would be a winner or loser, I detach myself from every trade and execute my strategy flawlessly regardly of the outcome.

Trading is like a business, you put up a capital and you work on it until you make profit so if you failed to prepare before doing any trades, don’t expect to succeed. Trading is not about making profit, sometimes its about having the right knowledge knowing when to buy and sell, and in this market losing is very normal just know how much risk you can take.

The OP's mentality is great as it will not give him too much stress. Because some people who are into trading are losing themselves, to the point that they are forgetting their mental health as well as their physical health. Don't get too attached. Once you executed your trade, move on. Learn your lessons and not dwell too much with your losses. Once you learned from your mistakes, you can do better the next time you trade.

I love this analysis. You have given me a perfect definition for losses in trading. "Business expenses" sounds like what it really means, I think this would also change my approach with my trades especially when ever I see a loss all I would just do is take it as an expense I made in purchase of a technique I should try to avoid in trading

As far as I'm aware, most countries will allow trading losses to be written off as an operating loss. They can't be claimed as a business expense though (they are two different things).

If this is the first year you started trading, you may be able to carry the losses forward, or use it to offset tax owed in previous years. Again, it really depends on your country and how complete its rules are re. cryptocurrencies. If your country is like mine, then cryptocurrency gains are considered capital gains and you can definitely factor in your losses to work out your tax liability.

However, if you live in a country where these gains are not taxable, you won't get tax relief for any losses.

When I was a newbie in trading. I always thought winning 100% if my trades was the way to go and boy did i lose a lot of money trying to make sure all the trades are wins  ;D
I came to realize that a successful trader doesn't have to win 100% of his trades. What is very important is to keep the win rate at least above 50% with a good risk reward ratio of more than 1

After realizing that, I started making progress in growing my account. So, yeah, losses are part of trading. Make sure you learn from the mistakes and keep them as few as possible.

I would say a business expense is more like transaction fees or trading fees. If you are saying you need to lose like $10k which is considered a learning expense then you are doing it wrong. Sure you need to trade with real money instead of demo to feel emotions but you should try and trade with smaller positions.

Whether you have a $1000 account or a $100000 account. You can take a trade on both and your emotions will be similar on both. But it’s better losing $1K instead of $100K. If you are trading with a $10 account then it’s different because it’s not much and you won’t feel fear and greed. Needs to be an amount not too small and not too big. It’s different for everyone.

"Don’t be afraid to start over again. this time you’re not starting from scratch, you’re starting from experience"

^a quote that's in play when it comes to business, entrepreneurship, trading, investing, or pretty much almost anything in life.

Sounds good, provided you can cope up with the losses and not allow the "expenses" to get over your head.

I have always felt the term "Loss" being misused a lot in trading. You dont lose money if you are spot trading crypto - you have just converted the more safer asset in something more risky. It can give you a profit but will probably take time. Either way you have not lost your money unless you sell at the loss.

I tend to look at Spot to be the thing in trading but there exists a margin trading too, where a loss is really a loss of money because it is a type of gambling.

In either case, looking at failures as learning points for future reference makes the trader learn a lot more than brooding over a loss. So keep it going.

Yes no matter how good our strategy we used, we always have time lose because the dynamic of the market or the pattern are changing every time, the only thing that we could repeat is strong mentality to enter the market again and take lesson from previous losses.
Rich people who have big business is also having the same experience i'm sure, they already through a lot of losses and come back with a better solution and if we have persistence of what we doing, we will reach success in the future

Trading will usually depend on the mindset of the individual it is not right to take too much pressure too much stress will cause damage and worsen from both mental and physical side therefore we have to understand the pace of the market technical analysis is very important for trading. Technology will make it easier to trade in the market by past analysis learn better when you're at a loss then move on.

The golden rule is play with money you are okey to lose. That lowers the stress lvl and will be able to think rational in the trades. Me personally play with 200$ on 10x margin and with that I'm fine if i lose it.

Nope, losses is losses no matter what, what would it do if you were to say that those losses are just business expenses? Would it make things much easier to accept the losses? I don't think so because it adds stress in you because you're classifying losses as a different thing when in reality and in the end, it's just losses.

Yes you are right, but if a business should continue with mainly expenses, then it is going to be affected in future. So it is very important don’t you fix the issues you’re having. When you lose in trading you have to take a break and take a new strategy or approach to it.  That’s why you’re cutting down on your expenses.

Another mistake that a lot of newbie traders the usually make is that they don't make use of tools that will be of help to them. There are so many tools in the market that you can make use of such as the stop loss tools to at least help you when you are losing. So, they should consider looking for all these things and preparing for themselves. Maybe when you become so good in it you can then stop bothering about all those things, but it’s still up to you.

If you didn't learn from your losses, I can't consider it as business expenses. A lot of people telling that losing is part of trading, yeah I believe in it, but if you lost every time and not gaining profits, something is wrong for sure. If you consider it as business, maximizing profits and minimizing losses is always a better move, so it takes time and effort to be able to do that. As business too got some risk.

That's the initial mindset of people. You can't change that because something ingrained in our brains and cells gives us that automatic reaction when we lose something. Maybe they don't understand it in the first place. That's why it has been seen as something as "easy," but in reality, it's not. I agree that it should be treated as a business and know when to cut losses or strive on.

There is no 100% strategy, and the best way is to look for ways to make it easier, like tools like Gunbot (https://gunbot.ph). It's making trading easy. Management is key.

Can you please clarify this to me like I am five?

If I understood it correctly, a "tax relief" is technically a cash back for losses that you have committed during that particulat year of trading and that cashback is deducted from the previous years of your trading career where you have paid capital gains?

So if ever there I have lost during this year, that loss can be carried back from the tax I have paid the previous years?

Losses is normal in trading wherein even experts still can experience such situations, but of course because of being knowledgeable they can always makes a way how to reduce loss everytime when they're trading,.  So let's make ways as well by making new strategies every time when we see it's not working properly and let's practice our skills every time and educate our self more, because that's the only key to become successful in trading, lastly don't give up because of your mistakes, keep it as a lesson so that you can avoid doing the same mistakes in the future.

awareness and trading experience is really needed to form a strong mentality in trading. and the strategies used will really help and provide benefits. Learning trading knowledge starting from the basics is very necessary to do. Losses and gains will inevitably occur. using money wisely when trading will provide convenience, capital management will be very helpful as the main strategy that must be done.

So, if you consider losses as business expenses, then you must know exactly how much your business expenses are, because if you consider all losses as business expenses, you can very easily forget about the loss without analyzing what made it a loss.
Actually this is quite an interesting thought but it can be a trap if you take a loss too lightly, and you finally realize that your business expenses are greater than the profits you get, then it is no longer a good business.

Having that kind of mindset would likely lessen your chances in getting depressed after a loss on that trade. It's like for every loss that you have in that trade, you're treating it like a business expense or an "investment" to learn from that mistake.

And yes there is no strategy that works 100% coming from those "trading gurus" out there. Coz' the reality is that you can't predict and control the market. The best lesson that we have these days is that only invest an amount that we could afford to lose or treating as "dead money" and learn how to manage risks both time and money.

That's sure in cryptocurrency trading you there should definitely be lost which is normal, whenever their is lost you shouldn't give up the only thing I believe you should do I take your note pad and analyze the trade and find out what causes the lost in the trade so that atleast when next you are entering another trade you should always avoid that same mistake which happens in the first trade and don't always go For revenge trade it is very bad.

Investing in cryptocurrency is like a busssiness also. And every business have to bear loose .so I think loosing in investment in crypto should consider as business loss,.and sometimes loss in business is good for future investment as you can utilize that mistake in further use of same methodology . But without loose business can not be perfect I think .

Somehow, I agree with @OP because trading will always have two results, win and loss. If you have a good strategy that can work with the current market, you will profit or vice versa. If we can think like that, we do not feel too sad when we get lost because we believe that we can recover the losses and profit in the next trade. We can only try hard to prevent the loss by analyzing and using it on the trade itself. The more we practice to make analysis, the more chances we will make a profit.

You are saying right. Losses in trading are nothing if we compare it with the other businesses. In other businesses, we need land, investment, electricity, humans, resources etc. to run a business. And the most important thing is the marketing. Without marketing we cannot introduce our product to other end users. But in trading we just need a laptop with a internet connection. And we can start our business. So, don't worry about losses in trading. Because profit and loss is a part of business.

That's correct with the mindset OP has developed, especially tagging their loss as "business expenses". Truth remains that there's no profitable trader who remains profitable all through. There are days they take losses too. What matters is not allowing the losses cut deep through the gains made. Trading isn't just trading for its sake. It's a profession and must be handled in such manner.

One thing I have come to realize about trading is the emotional attachment traders have to trades, whether gaining or losing. They cut it short when in gains and leave it to run when in loss. That's a killer. My thought would be – Why not let it run to either a TP or SL once the trade triggers.

In this game, either lose or win. In fact, everyone accepts not to make money, but there is no way to accept loss. But for novices, the necessary tuition is normal, so keep a good attitude, but I will also say, Few people can control greed

Reasonable because not always the same if you don't know the rules and techniques of trading well then you are more likely to lose here. Everything is improving with technology markets are being created with new rules losing will depend on your own if not updated with technology the risk is higher in margin trading.

I would again like to point out the fallacy in this statement. In spot trading, you are not "losing" money every time you end up doing a wrongly placed trade. What you would get is possibly a shitcoin in return. But you have not lost your money till you sell that shitcoin and realize your unrealized P&L. While in margin trading you are defenitely losing money because it is a type of gambling.

I think it is better if every trader starts by dummy trading on paper than jumping into trading in real. By doing dummy trading you can actually know if you can make any money trading or if trading is not your thing - which is often a case. Not everyone can have the nerves of trading and therefore potential losses can be prevented.

It is good for practice too, but few have the patience to do that. Majority of the newbies are going to FOMO only.

As a trader in the cryptocurrency business, I treated this as my own personal business of course. Because I buy and sell the coins that I choose.
So, it is very important to me that losses is just a normal things here in crypto space anyway. Moreover, always remember that the movement in the actual trade are only two always in which is the up and down the price only nothing else. You will only get loss if you sell the coins in the lowest price when you bought it.

Your mind very mature and are very aware of what you are doing. trading is gambling is wrong, the truth is trading is like a business, loss or profit is your decision. in addition to strong analysis, you also have to have a tough mentality to be able to continue to survive in trading otherwise you will only lose.

Anything in people's mind, as long they never give up i will say it is good. Because a lot of people sometimes think losses in trading is something that they must revenge. I said this because i see some of my friend, every he lose, he will mad and then keep doing trading activity to regain his losses. That can cause people do something reckless because trade need to be calm and not in angry feeling.

for me trading is an adrenaline-pumping thing, where the profit or loss we will get depends on how we manage our assets properly. if we see many people who experience losses in trading then it can be an illustration of the trading risk itself, not every day we get a profit, and vice versa not every day we get a failure. we just need to upgrade our knowledge and skills in trading so that it will be better in the future.

Then this has to be most costly business and expenses are off the chart if not done with careful techniques. I still believe that trading is something which needs extensive knowledge of reading the charts, forecasting the project/companies fate based on technical and fundamental analysis. Considering it business is no bad strategy I am sure. But considering your loss as your expenses is bad idea. This way we can not understand the trading patterns, rather we would be following the rage of gaining our “expenses” back and not reaching the break even point. I think learning to trade is simple formula.

In trading, each person's strategy is different. You are evaluating losses in trading as business expenses. But there are many who can't accept it and the way trading will always be just profit. Such people are very sorry if there is a loss in trading and say I will never trade again. Trading is not suitable for such kinds of people.

If you are smart enough then you could save your business expenses because there are plenty of opportunities available for every beginner in trading to develop their own strategy out of zero expenses. So, it is up to you that you will be developing your technical strategies and all other trading skills by spending a lot of money or by only spending time and effort.

Just by making use of demo accounts, anyone could develop technical trading strategies out of zero expenses and then when you are getting into real market, your business expenses will not be that much costlier.

Most probably the newbies in trading thinks that trading is always just like gambling and we can get only profit and never ever want to lose, but it is definitely a wrong thinking of all the traders that they have the same thoughts, because trading is just like business and people can also have to suffer sometimes from the loss with having profit as much.

I admit that you're mentally  strong and that is what is needed in trading. as long as I trade I realize that not every time I get a profit, it could be that I get a failure so that is a natural thing. It's true what it says that failure in trading can be considered a business expense. So if you get the failure, don't get too lost in sadness, get up and start again with a new spirit. make failure a lesson in the future so that you can trade better and make a profit.

It is certainly a learning experience but some didn't understand this. If we fail today, might be the same by tomorrow but can't be forever if we have to correct our mistakes. Even experts had such losses but wondering why they are still on trading, that is because they don't give up instead they stand strong and learn all those mistakes as this could help them to make it better and good results.
And those who hardly understand the situation will simply make their minds doubted and sooner or later, they will give up. There are lots of them and of course, not all have to become traders, that is the fact.

You could learn from the other if you would like to since you really need an experience in order to get yourself up when you think you aren't trading good. Making a good decision doesn't come right away it comes from experience and you have to learn from that through losses. And trading isn't about winning always you just have to accept losses too but with minimal loss and the other way around that's how you will get a good profit in the long run.

Good luck saying that to other people, how come is it business when you're the customer of the exchange? It's more like a freelance job rather than a business.

Even the greatest traders do not make a profit at all times. Trading is quick and sometimes you need to take a loss to move on and make a profit on the next one. Even the long term investors, the best of them could end up having a bad year. Look at Warren Buffet, dude has been consistently making a profit for people for 6-7 decades and even had has down years, usually when the market is down but he does have those periods. So, that means if you try to avoid making any loss then you are also going to avoid making any profit as well.

Everyone needs to realize that making a profit means that there will be some periods where you will lose a lot of money but you will move on and keep on making a profit later on. What you need to focus on is not making a loss overall, if your overall is a loss after a while then that's bad, but if you have been trading for years, overall in profit, then making some loss here and there shouldn't bother you.

It relies on the view of the trader.

There are traders that look at it as their daily job and others do consider it as a business just like you. There's a huge difference with that point of view.

Because the way businessmen view about their losses, they're making it a positive feedback to their strategy unlike someone who looks at loss as plain and outright loss.

That is the way it works, think for example of Messi which was for many years considered one of the best players of this era, was Messi perfect? Did he always made the right play? Did he scored every single shoot he made? And the answer to all of that is no, and yet he is considered to be one of the best players ever, why is that? And this is because of his consistency, and something similar happens when you trade, you do not have to win 100% of your trades, you only need to win enough of them for you to become profitable, and that is way easier than to try to make the perfect trade all the time.

Whatever kind of mindset you would put on as long it would be beneficial for you then that what matter most neither you do see it as an expense or would be simply a deduction on what you do learn about trading.

You should really be that serious on dealing with it and i agree on the sense it do treat as a business on where you do really need to take up something for the betterment.

Dont rush on things or deal up because this would really result into rush which would be ending up on bad decisions.

In this case, you will have to limit your expenses to a certain percentage, which will be set by you. But what will you do in this case if your losses are greater than you planned? Wouldn't it be easier to stick to your own trading strategy and the basics of risk management to avoid big losses?

Well it is not all losses can be counted as bussines expenses, because sometimes when some traders losses some small amount of money, the consider it as business expenses and try put more effort to see if he or she can have gain by adding more capital in that same way he have some lost, that is, to take more risk, but must of this result to too much loose which cannot be considered as bussines expenses.

It’s simply losses. In business there is either gains or there are losses, so losses in trading is simply losses. Expenses is totally something else, and it means the cost that is required for something. Why I am saying that these things are different is because when you’re talking about expenses, it has to do with the price that you’re paying for something, there is a product that you’re getting and you’re paying a price.

But, when you talk about losses you’re not getting anything at all, you’re completely losing. Losses are also part of business, especially in businesses where the risks that are involved is high, if you’re getting yourself involved in such you have to be ready for what comes with it.

That contradicts.

If a trader losses and he knows that he can still recover it, he'll reinvest with another capital but if that fails for the second time. Then, it's better to take some rest and leave those losses. About the consideration of thinking that it's a business expenses, a trader can consider trading as a business and that's why the idea came.

I don't think losses should be treated as business expenses,  that   would give trading a different name too! Let losses be losses, and by the way losses in trading are inevitable because so many factors are at play to give us a 100% win rate. Things like matket manipulation,  low trading capital or using the wrong risk management or over leveraging will all lead to a loss! AFAIK a loss is part of a winning strategy as this teaches us on how to take a similar trade should a trade setup present itself in the same manner and will shall know the best course of action. All in all business expenses can be planned unlike trading losses which tend to be incurred not on a planned basis.

If they can see that it is a business expense instead of thinking about losing, they will try to profit to recover their losses by searching for the other coins that can potentially take profit. He will not easily add more capital when he loses but will try with the rest capital and if he has skills in trading, he will be able to make a profit back after losing some money.

That's the proper mindset. Focusing on the losses that we'll have couldn't make our profits any bigger so we must only see it as a part of our trading journey or business expenses which is actually normal. Trading isn't always profitable since there will always be ups and downs and we should have the right mindset to deal with it.

It still depends on how much was lost and you can't be losing your capital or making little profit and call it business expenses it would look like one is only brainwashing his senses . I will only call it business expense if the lose is minimal and something both my wallet and my mind can withstand but anything above that needs serious attention and some reviews on where I might have gone wrong in my analysis

It will depend on how many losses and what kind of loss you are in.
If we are continuing losing every time or most of our trading is lost, it means that there is something wrong with our strategy, decision, and also management. So, it is not only about loss, but the way we can recover and take lessons from losing.
Losing money always happens but we must not make it as usual, because we are trading to take profits, losing money is normal but we should better prepare ourselves to minimize losing.

We have to lose money and there's no business that always make money, because there's a competition in the market and you can't really outsmart everyone. I take trading seriously because my money is at risk here so I'm doing my best to have a good analysis before trading. Well, we need to have this kind of mindset to remain professional in trading and not just to panic every time you lose on your trades, you really have to endure that pain.

I guess you could perhaps be correct in assuming that losses in trading are nothing but business expenses, however it depends on your business registration I think. Unless your business is trading, I doubt you can write that off your taxes. And if you decide to make it a trading business you might require a special license, especially if you live in a european county like Germany.

Admittedly that this loss is an inevitable cost and maybe as you say, we were forced to lose money like in business when the market smoothness and demand are not able to supply us steadily, it is as erratic as the daily weather but one thing should still be understood is that businesses cannot lose too much, too much will agree to bankruptcy and many people have let themselves fall into bankruptcy, they lose not as a business expense, they lose as a way of betting and mortgaging the whole business. Business expenses from losses need to gradually decrease and turn into a plus sign in profits

I would say it is not a business expense but school expense, that would be considered even better. When you are studying in college you pay a lot of money and do not even earn anything back, not financially of course because you do earn it back as knowledge. So, whenever you make a loss in trading, consider it as learning experience and that would be quite good to forget about it easily. This is why people should not be upset over the loses they make in the trading world, it happens and it happens to the most veteran trader as well so we should be seeing it as learning expense and forget about it.

Obviously one condition is that if you really think that it is a learning expense then you need to learn from it as well. Just because you write it off as learning doesn't mean you automatically learned something, if you end up not learning anything then you will not be making any progress neither. Look at what went wrong and learn why you made a loss and try to avoid doing that again.

You never lose in the Forex Market. When you make profit, you earn money and when you don't you earn experience, which helps you to earn in the next trade and hence you never lose.

Of course, to profit one must learn from this mistake but where it becomes a problem is when they are in excess, you can't continue to amass loss and think you are learning at the expense of your finances, no, it has to be minimal and when your portfolio is ruled by risk management.
While trying your strategy, learn to do them on paper rather than using your own fund. Trading view is an example where you trade for fun and make used of good tools for technical analysis.

You wouldnt progress as a trader if you do keep on denying or accepting your losses on your trading career which simply shows out that you should really treat these things up as a learning stones

for you to become even much more better in the future.Think off it as a payment for the learnings you do get because trading does involved lots of trials and error.

Business expense or what you do call on that but still it would really be the same experience and outcome.

That's right, it's always to look at trading that way because otherwise you'll get very depressed and lose control on your mind. Just remember, Amazon couldn't profit for 5 years, yeah, amazon and Jeff Bezos, the richest man's company couldn't profit for 5 years. Your day will come, just be organized, focused and patient.

Personally, I always set some limits every time I gain significant profit. Did I had $1000 as a first capital and gained $3000? Then I set $2000 as a new base capital and limit my loses on $2000 but risk more with the additional $1000. I found that to work very well and if it happened that I lost $1000 from $3000 and I'm on my base capital, then I rest for a week or two and start trading after that (but still have a look at market movement to not miss great moments).

This is a possible way to trade. With the right mind set as this, you just have to keep making progress and profit at same time. But on the trade that would be winner, you can have an idea of a winning trade if you pay attention to little details. We don't need to enter every market but to be at least 60% sure that it may be good strike. When we don't enter almost every market, we see clearly, wait until we are convinced for a winner and we should remember to always use stoploss.

We all have different experience because it's very simple trading is not about all winning for this all we have to do some good and bold decision's these are very important we have to treat trading like a business unit which is very important. Few works without any strategy which is never been good idea you must do some work before start and set your goals and do some good strategy then you will be able to make some good profit. Lost is also part of this, but managing things in better way is good and can give some good profit in long run.

You also need some good mentality and patience for good trading because without these things you are not able to have settled things in better way.

Your views are correct. Treat trading like business because we consider that as an investment. The key to trading success is by doing it regularly. The goal is to minimize losses the same as the usual business does. Don't stick with the same strategy as in the crypto market, there are different trends making it more volatile.

But always remember that experiencing losses is the key for some newbies before that now turned to professional and expert traders today.

I think that is exactly what the OP is talking about when they refer to their losses as business expenses, basically everything we do has a price that we must pay, while losing money in the markets may seem as if it does not brings us nothing in fact it can do so, if a trader after each loss takes the time to see why the trade in particular was lost and learns from it then we can say that whatever amount of money that was lost was an expense in order to bring forward his understanding of the markets, still I can see why you think differently but I can also see the point of view of the OP.

Probably you’re thinking about your losses is your payment for that experience, well if its your point of view then its fine but in reality, you lose the money.

There’s no market that guarantees you any profit without losing the money. We have to treat trading as part of our job either part time or full time, analyzing is our job and the reward is good returns if you are able to analyze properly.

What has helped you so far in your trading is the mindset and mentality that you have developed not to dwell on losses but to move on quickly and look ahead, not like your thoughts are so 100% correct. If you see losses as expenses, what would you call the cost of data to keep you connected online, or the cost for electricity to give power to your trading Device?, those are the real business expenses to me, not losses.

I agree with your classification of losses in Cryptocurrency trading as business expenses.  I will also like to add that losses is also learning expenses as well.  There are important lessons you will learn about yourself in relation to your trading skills that will be eye opening for you.  If you have not made a loss,  you might have not learnt these lessons!

Sometimes we see losses like that, losses, but it is not entirely losses, but we also see it as profit, but how can it be interpreted? When we lose in trading the way we win is when we realize why we lost, if we lose and we don't know why, we are losing money and knowledge.

I know that on an economic level when we see that we have losses, it can be reflected in many things, that is why strategies are important, in my case I always make 3 trades and of those 3 trades I must ensure at least 2 trades to recover and exit in positive balance, or at least neutral without losing, and if I lose all 3 trades it is because I am seeing the trade in the wrong way.

Yes, we can compare trading with business. You face losses but you also have to get back to it and start with new and better strategies.

Everyone who trades crypto must have experienced losses, and experiencing losses are not always bad. There are many lessons we can take when
we experience losses, so I strongly agree that losses in trading are learning expenses. If we respond positively when we experience losses, it will
make us become smarter in trading. Because we can learn to correct the mistakes we make, then someone who is successful in trading usually
has a lot of losses before. There is no need to be afraid of losing when trading, because that is the way for us to find a good strategy.

You need to know that we all are customers to each other so there nithiy like jut having a customer when you think you are not customer to another person. Trading is business and risks is attached so we'll have to take it like that whether you lost in a trade or you finally make profits, everything is business. We'll doing this to make more money which is the goal. Risk is business.

this is certainly not the most correct approach, but the most vital. In fact, this is so, because this is a waste of experience.

What we should do is learn from them, if you do not learn from them then how could you say it is learning expense. I personally feel like sometimes I do not get why something went down, I am usually a bull rider, so I buy stuff to sell when it is higher, I do not short anything ever, I never did and I never will, I do not sell things that easily neither, not when they are going down at least, only if I feel like it has peaked or I lost hope on it because of some management issue (creators turn out to be scammers etc). So long story short all I do is buy, wait for it to peak, and maybe sell.

In that situation sometimes they fall the moment I buy it, and I do not always get it, and that means I did not learn why I lost money there, I technically didn't lose money and waited for it to recover, but I still have no idea why it went down, that wasn't an expense, that wasn't a learning cost, it was literally just a loss, because I learned nothing from them. Doesn't happen all the time, but it has happened before a few times.

Doesnt matter on what approach on what others people been thinking about.What matter most here is that you do able to do things and able to handle yourself in times of losses.

Neither a business expense or would think up about on being some kind of losses on what you do actually commit like in gambling or something like that.

As long you do make profits then that what matter the most.You should do all sorts of things to make yourself sustainable.

It is a bit longshot for me but from the OP's perspective, assuming trading to be a one-man-army business, the fees are the costs of setting up the business proper.

I could also say that education costs would be the expenses to get up a well-paying job. But you have to understand that a job or a business usually ends with an almost constant timely income. But trading does not.

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It is actually a similar type of explanation. But a better one for the newbies who might read this thread - take mistakes as learning points and not failures. It is a failure if you assume it to be. Taking it as a point in your experience to correct it and look back on it for future lessons is the proper approach.

Still I consider some mistakes in early trading to be due to impulses and there is nothing more to learn from them but to control your impulses. If one cannot practice this properly or trying to control impulses ends up irritating them more - then they should stop trading, it is not for them.

I agree with you that we should look at trading losses more openly. While they hurt our bankroll, losses are not always bad. First of all we should learn from our losses. When we trade and make a profit we usually don't think about our trade and if it was the right call or we just got lucky. But when we are losing we should take a more close look at the trade. Why did we buy that coin in the first place? Maybe our rational to buy a certain coin was coming from sound fundamentals and the drop in price has nothing to do with the coin itself. There is a lot of correlation between bitcoins and altcoins. So if bitcoins drop so will most of the other coins. And a loss in our crypto portfolio doesn't mean we should instantly sell, there is always the possibility to just hold our coins until the prices recover. Only when we are convinced that it doesn't make sense anymore to hold the coin we should be selling.

You have a point because, as a freelancer, you should have skills and knowledge about your niche. The same is true for trading, where you must have knowledge before trading and also have a strategy. Trading needs capital, which a freelancer not required, but patience is essential. I believe it is appropriate to refer to it as a business because we have capital, we have control over our money, and we could go bankrupt.

We have a budget, as ordinary people, amateur traders... I never saw my trading activities as a business, it's what I wanted to try and was ready to invest some money in that. My expenses were paying for school, it's how I thought of that, knowledge is not always free...

The approach is important, and I guess some people will take trading more seriously... By that I mean they will invest more money in trading, they are ready to spend more time on that, and that can be good and losses can be seen as "business losses", but for us, amateur part-time traders losses are simple mistakes we learn from.

That suppose the thing we do but it is so sad that not all have taken this as a sort of learning, more often they think they don't have a better future in trading. We keep thinking to get in profit all the time neglecting the chance that one-day losses will come to us. It is a common mistake for most trading being too emotional.
But I can't blame why some traders got mad when they lose, as a human being, it is somewhat common and understandable,  and surely everyone does during their early days in trading. But if we keep behaving this way, there is no way to succeed.

Trading on the exchange is a trading process that sometimes you don't realize, because every crypto asset you own is only aimed at short-term profits.
Try to do something very simple without panicking to get profits in the long run and keep the price so that you don't get dizzy with the price movements on the market. so simple

Until you gain experience, definitely you will behave in exact that manner. Market pressure will definitely enforce you to commit more mistakes out of one mistake. But, when traders are making use of hard lessons, learned during market sessions definitely will help them avoiding future mistakes which must be the right beginning for them toward profitable traders in near future.

No, it is not that simple. You will start feeling all the pressure of market when market direction is against you. This is the reason most traders are committing mistakes and losing all their capital because of unable to handle market pressure. Only after paying prices for such mistake people start learning and then may start feeling like so simple for handling such kind of pressurized market situations.

Did I hear you said you don't lose in Forex market? There is loss in forex and may even lose more if you are the type that likes margin, the only thing I have liked about forex is there low volatility which has been the bad side of cryptocurrency.

When you trade cryptocurrency, you should know that loss is part of the game you sign-up for, it's just like every other business where sometimes you make profits and sometimes you make loss, therefore loss is inevitable but should be minimal.

In freelancing, the money being paid to the worker is going to be there always as long as the skills of the workers are at par with the work being asked for. The same skills in trading may be there but the money is not fixed, it may never be realized. I think we cant compare the two, freelancing is after all a type of a job, the only thing is that you will not be paid a fixed amount monthly but a fixed amount/work. In trading there is a risk vs reward scheme - you may make a lot or you make not make anything in a month.

It is better to consider the money lost in trading (if realized PnL obviously) - to be tuition fees. Dummy trading does exist though - but most newbies dont even try that, maybe doing dummy would save that fees to a certain extent.

Trading is business but losing in trading can be a source of worry. Yes you loss money but it is possible to get profit net time.  In every field there is always a gain and loss. You will seek guidance from assumptions you make throughout your life. There is no such thing as a loss free zone. Every field has a loss and gain component. So consider trading to be nothing more than a business. It will keep you from being afraid. As a result you will be able to profit next time.

No way to succeed if you keep regretting and you keep frustrating yourself by doing some mistake

during your stay inside the exchange, trading is a continuous knowledge, it's not just an easy access

to richness but it's a good way to earn, the business is open and everyone is allowed to practice their

knowledge, if you lose better to treat that as a learning process, try to improve and you'll see betterment

will come your way on your next try.

Many Newbie, see lost as an excuse of quiting trading, they always think about quitting trading whenever they lost. They don't understand that losing is part of trading. Losing in trading is one thing you can't basically avoid. But, I think you can minimize lost, by having a good strategy, Although, I know no strategy is 100% correct. However, you can build a good strategy which will work for you. And also I don't think anybody is perfect when it comes to trading. Just stick to your strategy, and when it doesn't seems to work again, change it.

How do you say that the loses are business expenses. Is it not business loss? Investing a lump of capital on a coin and that goes in loss, I do see it as business loss. Expense is a part of money we spend to set up a business or during the business.

And really appreciate that you follow your strategy/call and trade. Besides learning technical strategies, its our own call to when and where to place our orders. So yes, self decision would make us perfect as we move on with ups and downs.

To be fair to those newbies many do not really have a choice but to quit trading for a while or forever because their losses were massive, one thing I have understood over time is that the most important skill in this market is not to have a great ability to predict what the market is going to do but to have a great stop loss strategy, this way when you lose, and we know this is inevitable, your losses are limited, but in the case of newbies the majority do not know this which means that when they lose they lose big.

This must be a different perspective of how we need to treat losses while trading. But, definitely this will give positive energy to all traders by not minding about their losses but they will keep learning to improve their strategy so that they will be turning their losing trades in to profitable ones. At the same time we need to to be careful while losing our capital otherwise we might need to go for arranging funds from other sources for continuing our trading. I mean only up to some levels we can consider losses like expenses for improving and enhancing our strategy but not for all the times.

a trader must experience losses and gains, it's a natural thing. when we get a loss, we must be aware that we have also experienced a profit so don't be too regretful but focus on the goal and the next trade so as not to lose again. it's true that we need a new strategy for trading so that we can do our best to be able to make a profit because of course that strategy also changes according to the crypto market. do your best so that this goal in trading is also achieved.

Trading is like a business where you will experience advantages and disadvantages as well as gain interesting knowledge and experience. Losing money when you trade is the same as you lose money in running a business. This is understandable, therefore, when you decide to enter the world of trading, do not only be tempted by the profits to be obtained but also the risks involved. You have to be smart and smart to manage the risk that will occur.

in business, loss is the loss of the business itself, yes everyone knows that, especially the trading business,
profit and loss is something that is always a trader's partner, but if traders study risk and analysis, I don't think this should be debated again,
hopefully we are avoided from a lot of losses, keep the spirit!

I think this is what the OP tried to imply but maybe he choose the wrong words for it, losing as a trader is inevitable, and this is even more true when you are a newbie as you will make mistakes due to your inexperience that you would not have made otherwise and there is nothing else but to accept it, however it is important to not let this acceptance become complacency and just accept any mistake as part of your inexperience and justify them that way, otherwise you will not have an incentive to improve yourself and avoid those mistakes on the first place, which means you will never progress as a trader and you will never become profitable.

People been thinking about trading as a business which it isnt wrong either but its more precise to be that an investment and i do agree into that point
which it is better to call it as a training expenses rather than on business ones.

We do know that most noobs would really be rushing up on making profits thats why they are really in a hurry which do results on making mistakes.

We do usually make able to learn into something when we do experience bad things but doing it before then it is something less likely to happen.

Yeah, that must be kind of prevention which is better than recovering losses after a frustrating trade. Success in trading is all about making ourselves ready for all kind of challenges of market conditions. In my opinion getting ready for market challenges is simply possible by learning and practicing but unfortunately most beginners are not interested in making themselves ready.

I agree with OP's concept of considering losses in the beginning days as the expenses for learning process still it should be within affordable limit because no one will be ready to pay big price for learning process.

Exactly my terms mate. Losing is inherent to trading full stop. Any losses from trading are obviously down to the trader and the platforms used. Platform fees are often low but when you do hundreds of trades per day these fees can add up.

In a way, it is true that losses in trading are a business expense as long as those losses enables you to learn and improve your trading strategies/skills. Obviously, it doesn't apply to the early traders that just get the basics wrong but it is something for those that learn and stick at trading.

I have a friend like this and he actually did earned some money from it as well. It wasn't the same, he literally did studied and that is why there is a big difference, but the idea is the same. He created a project, but he wasn't a developer and he didn't know how to create a project, so he spend nearly 2k dollars for both studying material and courses but mainly also for things to test out as well, he created maybe few dozen tokens without anyone knowing just to see how it works, some on testnet, some on mainnet, even paid people to test his test as well so all in all he spend 2 grand on becoming "no idea how to create a project" to "I have created a good project" and that's a good training expense. Then he made some profit from that project but not too much, now he works as a developer for another project and earns a great salary and also a ton of tokens on top of it.

We wouldnt really be able to progress on unless we do try even its already out of the scope of our capability but doesnt mean that it should really be avoided.How you would know if you wouldnt try but there are really things which couldnt be able to grasp on on a shortest time as possible thats why never hurrying up yourself on learning into something because one day it would surely pays off but of course depending on the skills and things you are trying to enhance and engaged on.

Yes losing in trading is business expenses but someone who has put all the money in trading and unfortunately the price goes down then he will surely drop all of his  capital. So it can be make him disappoint and due to this reason perhapes he stop  this activity. Therefore for some people it is not just business expenses but it is hope of gaining profit as there is no other source to gain money.

The first mistake I am able to figure out in your statement is, any trader should not invest all their money; they should keep some capital for emergency purposes like if prices goes down then they should try to average. So, if you are not ready to pay for your learning process then you will commit such kind of mistakes.

Second mistake must be having no plan if price goes down: either you need to exit at stop-loss or you can go for averaging when you are trading bitcoin kind of fundamentally strong coins.

Yeah, not all traders are having secondary plans when they are facing unexpected market fluctuations. This is the reason everyone should start trading with very minimum capital so that the expensive they need to pay for learning process will be less. This is the reason I believe getting into trading for the first time must be accompanied with lots of recommendations and suggestions from experts and when beginners following them then they could have profitable trading in the end by multiplying their capital over the time otherwise they will lose all their capital for paying fees for the learning process as per OP.

This is the reason experienced traders are committing less number of mistakes and they are able to cover their losses by their next trade hence literally they are not paying any fees for their learning process because they have already mastered the required things for profitable trading.

Yeah, there will be no point of rushing in trading in the beginning stage because when we are not having enough experience in trading then losing trades will be higher and when you are making more losses then there will be no point of making more trades. Slow and steady will help learning while trading and then we can easily make profits still even we become experienced, we should not trade more by rushing into; that will help for sure.

Running cannot be totally avoided, you'll only end up reducing the rate at which you run at loses. And yeah it's true that for every lose, there's an added knowledge but not everyone make use of the knowledge their loses add to them .
And it's really difficult to get used to running at lose

I agree with you because if you start a business and you succeed at the first time definitely you don't know where you are heading to. Losses in a business or trading is not a curse but it gives you experience on how to stand challenges. Before you start a business you should know that there is loss and expenses, do not rush into the business make sure you know the business very well and the most essential thing don't borrow money to start a business is too risky.

Those are both in the factor of losing and at risk because in business you will get it depends on the product you are willing to sell, if you want some unique it might a high risk-reward there are a chance people will not support or they will. In business, there's no cutting the loss once you started because you already bought the things you need. In trading, the same thing but you have the opportunity to stop loss and take profit but it depends what market you will go with if this is for stock,  crypto and etc. The more volatile of course the more risk.

Here you are of course right, but in business, as elsewhere, someone loses and someone wins.
You can find a successful businessman who runs his business smartly and makes good money, but not all businessmen are born traders or entrepreneurs. Not every smart businessman will be able to trade cryptocurrency at a high level.

Absolutely you are right, because when a new trader comes to trading if he didn't get a loss how can he know about what are the affects of loss in trading and how did he get experience without getting loss in trading? That is the main point most of the trader just lose their money and quit trading and then regret after that, most of them are newbie.

You have to really treat with like real life business because whatever that happens in there is related to the physical kind of business. The risk too should be properly sized against the size of the capital used in trading. You can't treat online trading just anyhow, in fact it requires every care you can give more than the physical trade, if you make a mistake to trigger a trade then you either expect lose or prodit so we need to be sure of what we want to trade before we hit the button with appropriate stop loss.

What we should consider as business expense is not like suddenly it is not expense or not a loss neither. When we are doing something we should be careful anyways, if you run a business and then suddenly end up buying something a lot more than you need, like 100 boxes of it instead of 7 boxes when it would have been enough, then it is not a smart expense.

So, if you are going to go out and make some business expenses then you need to know if you are making a smart one or a bad one. Trading is the same, if you losing money trading on something that makes sense then you ended up losing because unexpected happened then it is understandable, but if you are losing money because of something silly that you just throw money into then it is not really smart.

There's no such thing about being a perfect trader because everyone could really experience losses no matter what and its true that it is a business expense and shouldnt really mind off that you could really
avoid such thing because you would just stress out yourself which would mainly affect your trading behavior if you do always mind into those losing amounts but doesnt mean that you would
really be just careless because what you are doing here is that you are trying to making the risk even way more lower or lesser as you do gain up experience.

Don't try to bring it in a that looks like experts traders like loses which will sound like loses is a prerequisite.ecerybidy always try to avoid loses but sometimes it's just come like that. Loses is paramount and we'll should be prepared for it rather than trying hard to avoid it.

The newbies mist time always make good earnings in their trade at first but later, they'll realise the important of getting a good skill than just using there superficial knowledge to analyze and get what they want from the market.

Great analogy, that's the easiest way to explain that. However, trading is not everyone's business, I mean, not everyone who tried trading gain something positive from it. Other people who lose a lot of money in trading gained nothing but discouragement and frustration. Those who lose a lot of money in trading and never quit are the winners, because they are doing everything to learn something from it with their positive mind that they can do it.

it is always and forever that people will blame crypto once they suffer losses. They keep themselves clean but the sad reality is that it was the result of their own doings. They lose their money in trading it is because they just underestimate the market volatility and even have the confidence that it works find without thinking in preparing the possible losses.

They simply don't realize it too early but more often it happens late. Even that, we can't still escape the possibility to get lost, it is generally a part of it. Losing is a life in trading especially for those who don't want to learn more and correct their mistakes.

Actually, even the most skillful and experienced trader isn't exempted about it, up until now they're still lose if they can't predict it very well and with just a small margin of errors may lead to losses not just profits but capitals as well. Losing is always a part of the expenses and there's nothing we can do about it but the important thing is you have learned and gained another experience.
It's very unfortunate to hear some stories that have failed in trading and lost due to greed, I mean they know that it's a gamble to take but they still did it because of the tempting profits if ever if it succeed but sadly it didn't. It's never a good idea to put all your capital after all, because chances are it'll lead to disappointments.

There's no exemption because no matter how good or skillful you are you would still end up on this scenario but one thing differs from being noob to an experienced one is that they do know on how to

handle up risks which is something cant really be handled out by anybody.You should be thinking about those losses are part of the investment and due to unpredictability of the market then it is

unavoidable for you to experience such condition this is why you should really be doing your best on lessening the risks as much as you can.

Trading will be a gambling if you allow your emotions to take decisions. Moreover, there are lots of factors in trading to push you into losses and not just your emotions; I mean failure of your technical analysis must be your first-ever reason which will lead you into losses. Still, not following the TA by not booking profits due to greedy and then facing losses is also a common event in trading and this kind of events will not let anyone to learn because these traders never get control over their emotions hence their losses keep increasing.

Skip a signal which is not satisfying all your conditions could be one simple solution here to minimize your number of losing trades which means you must need stronger TA along with greater experiences of using those TA.

Newbie are mostly those who try to avoid not losing at all in Trading. And whenever some of them loses in trade, they feel like giving up, while some other feel depressed. I remember when I got into Trading new. I usually feels like stopping daily trading when I lost. But ever since I came to realised that losing is part of Trading. I now learn from my mistakes and try to avoid losing much. Although, no strategy is 100% when it comes to trading. But as a trader, you have to build a strategy that will probably work for you.