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Title: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: paxmao on October 04, 2021, 09:11:47 AM While the common guy is subject to taxes with no loophole or hideout, many of the wealthy around the world go about their business in a completely different way: not paying taxes. The Pandora Papers, a recent journalism work, shows factually, with names and dates how this is happening while you pay your taxes.
Please, note among the names the Queen of England (curiously, not under "Royalty"). https://www.bbc.com/news/world-58780561 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-58780561) Quote The Pandora Papers is a leak of almost 12 million documents that reveals hidden wealth, tax avoidance and, in some cases, money laundering by some of the world's rich and powerful. Quote The files expose how some of the most powerful people in the world - including more than 330 politicians from 90 countries - use secret offshore companies to hide their wealth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_named_in_the_Pandora_Papers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_named_in_the_Pandora_Papers) Quote Heads of state Jordan Abdullah II, King of Jordan[3] Dominican Republic Luis Abinader, President of the Dominican Republic[4] Azerbaijan Ilham Aliyev, President of Azerbaijan[5] Montenegro Milo Đukanović, President of Montenegro[6] Kenya Uhuru Kenyatta, President of Kenya[6] Ecuador Guillermo Lasso, President of Ecuador[7] Gabon Ali Bongo Ondimba, President of Gabon[6] Chile Sebastián Piñera, President of Chile[6] Republic of the Congo Denis Sassou Nguesso, President of the Republic of the Congo[8] Qatar Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani, Emir of Qatar[9] United Kingdom Elizabeth II, Queen of the United Kingdom[10] Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky, President of Ukraine[11] Former heads of state Paraguay Horacio Cartes, former president of Paraguay[12] Colombia César Gaviria, former president of Colombia.[13] Peru Pedro Pablo Kuczynski, former president of Peru[12] Honduras Porfirio Lobo Sosa, former president of Honduras[12] Panama Ricardo Martinelli, former president of Panama[12] Colombia Andrés Pastrana, former president of Colombia.[14] Panama Ernesto Pérez Balladares, former president of Panama[12] Panama Juan Carlos Varela, former president of Panama[12] Heads of government Ivory Coast Patrick Achi, Prime Minister of Côte d'Ivoire[15] Czech Republic Andrej Babiš, Prime Minister of the Czech Republic[16] United Arab Emirates Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Prime Minister of the United Arab Emirates and Emir of Dubai[9] Lebanon Najib Mikati, Prime Minister of Lebanon[17] Former heads of government United Kingdom Tony Blair, former Prime Minister of the United Kingdom[18] Italy Silvio Berlusconi, former Prime Minister of Italy[citation needed] Hong Kong Tung Chee-hwa, former Chief Executive of Hong Kong[19] Hong Kong Leung Chun-ying, former Chief Executive of Hong Kong[19] Lebanon Hassan Diab, former Prime Minister of Lebanon[20] Heads of organizations United Nations Dominique Strauss-Kahn, former Managing Director of the International Monetary Fund.[9] Politicians Honduras Nasry Asfura, current mayor of Tegucigalpa.[21] Israel Nir Barkat, former mayor of Jerusalem and current member of the Knesset[22] Brazil Roberto Campos Neto, president of the Central Bank of Brazil[12][23][24] Mexico Jorge Arganis Díaz Leal, Secretary of Communications and Transport[25] Ecuador Jaime Durán Barba, consultant of former President of Argentina Mauricio Macri[12] Brazil Paulo Guedes, Minister of the Economy[12][23][24] Netherlands Wopke Hoekstra, Minister of Finance and Leader of the Christian Democratic Appeal[26] Serbia Siniša Mali, Minister of Finance and former Mayor of Belgrade[27] Argentina Zulema María Eva Menem, former First Lady of Argentina and daughter of former president of Argentina Carlos Menem[12] Argentina Daniel Muñoz, secretary of former president of Argentina Néstor Kirchner[12] Israel Haim Ramon - former Vice Prime Minister of Israel and former member of the Knesset[28] Mexico Julio Scherer Ibarra [es], former advisor of Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador[12] Pakistan Shaukat Tarin, Finance Minister of Pakistan[29] Pakistan Moonis Elahi, Minister for Water Resources[30] Malaysia Daim Zainuddin, former Minister of Finance and Chief of the Council of Eminent Persons (CEP)[31] Philippines Andres D. Bautista, former Chairman of the Commission on Elections and Chairman of the Presidential Commission on Good Government[32] Philippines Rolando Gapud, businessman and former associate of the late dictator Ferdinand Marcos[33] Philippines The family of Win Gatchalian and Rex Gatchalian, Senator of the Philippines and current mayor of Valenzuela City[34] Philippines Arthur Tugade, Secretary of Transportation[35] Philippines Dennis Uy, businessman, Honorary Consul of Kazakhstan to the Philippines and business associate to Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte[36] Sri Lanka Nirupama Rajapaksa, former Deputy Minister of Water Supply & Drainage[37] Royalty Morocco Lalla Hasnaa, Princess of Morocco[9] Businesspeople India Anil Ambani - Indian businessperson[38] Mexico María Asunción Aramburuzabala, Mexican businessperson[12] Australia Graeme Briggs - founder of the Asiaciti Trust.[39] Mexico Germán Larrea Mota-Velasco, Mexican businessperson[12] Montenegro Aco Đukanović, Montenegrin businessperson[6] Montenegro Blažo Đukanović, Montenegrin businessperson[6] India Nirav Modi - Indian businessperson[38] Brazil Antonio Jose, vulgo Pai, Construction Tycoon[12] India John Shaw - Indian businessperson[38] Israel Beny Steinmetz - Israeli businessperson[38] Mexico Olegario Vázquez Aldir, Mexican businessperson[12] Japan Masayoshi Son, Japanese billionaire technology entrepreneur[40] Philippines The Aboitiz family, Philippine businessperson[41] Philippines Joselito Campos, Jr., son of Jose Yao Campos, Philippine businessperson[42] Philippines Helen Dee, daughter of Alfonso Yuchengco, Philippine businessperson and banker[43] Philippines The Gaisano family, Philippine businessperson[44] Philippines Oscar Hilado, Philippine businessperson[45] Philippines The Tantoco family, Philippine businessperson[46] Philippines The Wenceslao family, Philippine businessperson[47] Philippines Enrique K. Razon, Philippine businessperson[48] Philippines The estate of Henry Sy including his children Teresita Sy-Coson, Philippine businessperson[49] United Kingdom Mohamed Amersi, British businessperson[50] Other Italy Carlo Ancelotti, Italian football manager[51] Spain Miguel Bosé, Spanish singer[52] Argentina Ángel Di María, Argentine football player[53] Spain Pep Guardiola, Spanish football manager[51] Spain Julio Iglesias, Spanish singer[51] South Korea Lee Soo-man, South Korean record executive and record producer[54] Germany Denmark Corinna zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Sayn, German-born Danish princess and entrepreneur[55] Germany Claudia Schiffer, German model[56] Colombia Shakira, Colombian singer[51] India Sachin Tendulkar, Indian Cricketer[38] EDITED TO ADD: This is another thread on the Bitcoin Development on this same matter. I keep this one because the Economy section may benefit from a discussion. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5363798 Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: NeuroticFish on October 04, 2021, 09:18:01 AM It's already dicussed here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5363798 ;)
Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: Kong Hey Pakboy on October 04, 2021, 10:06:58 AM Is this different than the Panama Papers? That paper too got some big names in their lists too. This paper here and the people on the list is the reason why you don't trust the elites and that the only way to move forward is shake the hierarchy and let them all fall down. We need to open our eyes regarding this one because this is a clear evidence that they're all leeches and the taxes only came from us the working class.
Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: paxmao on October 04, 2021, 10:37:47 AM It's already dicussed here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5363798 ;) Thanks for the link. If it is in Bitcoin Discussion, I assume that it is on how this topic relates to bitcoin, so I am going to leave it here as well since it seems an Economy related matter for me. Is this different than the Panama Papers? That paper too got some big names in their lists too. This paper here and the people on the list is the reason why you don't trust the elites and that the only way to move forward is shake the hierarchy and let them all fall down. We need to open our eyes regarding this one because this is a clear evidence that they're all leeches and the taxes only came from us the working class. Yes it is. Have a look at the links and see that the amount of documents, information and the people involved is massive and larger than the Panama papers. Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: bitmover on October 04, 2021, 10:49:30 AM Brazil Paulo Guedes, Minister of the Economy[12][23][24] I discovered this yesterday. I think this is very impressive. Guedes is the new Minister of economy (since 2019) . And he is worried about our fiat currency fluctuations (Brazilian real). He has millions of usd in an offshore account. The same for Mauricio macri and other right wing politicians. This is a clear indication of how much it is important to have a diversification in a strong currency, specially if you live a developing country which has a weak fiat currency. Certainly bitcoin is an amazing alternative for such scenario, but it's volatility is a problem Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: Kong Hey Pakboy on October 04, 2021, 11:12:28 AM ~~~ Yes it is. Have a look at the links and see that the amount of documents, information and the people involved is massive and larger than the Panama papers. Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: The Sceptical Chymist on October 04, 2021, 11:19:02 AM It's already dicussed here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5363798 ;) I think this discussion belongs in Economics, and I'm glad OP posted this here, as I have Bitcoin Discussion on ignore.None of this is surprising, even with names named--tax evasion among the ultra-wealthy and politically powerful has been going on for longer than any of us has been alive. I think there are simply better ways of detecting that evasion these days (and probably more laws as well). I see a lot of Asian names, and European ones as well. I'd love to see some American ones, because I know damn well my country isn't exempt from this. Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: NeuroticFish on October 04, 2021, 02:41:01 PM If it is in Bitcoin Discussion, I assume that it is on how this topic relates to bitcoin, so I am going to leave it here as well since it seems an Economy related matter for me. Sure, it's up to you. I've posted to avoid duplication - also the duplication of replies/ideas. This way people can read in both areas and post what/where it suits better. I think this is very impressive. It is, still, I feel that's by far only the tip of the iceberg. Certainly bitcoin is an amazing alternative for such scenario, but it's volatility is a problem I don't think that's a problem. At least it's not as long as they don't go all in bitcoin. Most of that money put aside is for long term. And for long term Bitcoin goes upwards, making the volatility rather negligible. I'd love to see some American ones, because I know damn well my country isn't exempt from this. While I understand what you meant (U.S of A), both Americas are represented, from Mexico to Argentina and Chile. But you're right, US and Canada are strangely missing this time. Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: MNbag on October 04, 2021, 04:49:47 PM Well, I am glad that these kinds of shenanigans have been revealed to the public.
Just expect some "breaking news" to out shadow this revelation soon... Remember that the rich ain't your friends, they are just using you as a way to maintain their position. Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: hatshepsut93 on October 04, 2021, 04:51:27 PM Tax evasion? There's a lot of political figures on that list, and I doubt they are evading taxes on their government salary or their side hustles, lol. They are hiding their bribes and the funds they have embezzled.
While the common guy is subject to taxes with no loophole or hideout, many of the wealthy around the world go about their business in a completely different way: not paying taxes. It depends on where you live. Maybe in the US or in Europe the small guy will be prosecuted for even small-scale tax evasion, but in developing world tax officials don't bother with small fry, so people who get paid in cash just never pay any income tax in their life. Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: el kaka22 on October 04, 2021, 09:35:18 PM This has been out a long time ago as well. It was called panama papers at the time, there were tons of famous and rich people who took their money to panama and saved on taxes thanks to that, do you know what happened? After 100+ billion dollars on taxes got avoided thanks to panama rules and so forth and rich people got to save all that money instead of paying taxes on it, the only thing that happened was the journalist got murdered (officially ruled as suicide I believe) for outing those rich people.
Same as 2008, when the journalist who figured out that banks were playing with fire and knew the risks when they did mortgage bonds and they still did it anyway because they didn't care if they lost since they knew they would be bailed out, so took low risk on high reward thanks to government backing them, that journalist was jailed for breaking confidentiality law. So, when the most powerful people do something illegal, who is there to stop them? Nobody has more power than them so they can do whatever they like. Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: Hydrogen on October 04, 2021, 11:37:44 PM When President Ferdinand Marcos of the philippines passed away in 1989. His expected billions in savings could not be found. When Muammar Gaddafi died, his billions also could not be found. There are many world leaders whose billions could not be found. Perhaps due to them being stashed in offshore tax havens? While some might believe this is a new trend, it could date back many decades. Arguably the practice could date back centuries, or millennia in one form or another.
While the media will illustrate offshore tax havens as privilege and freedom for the rich and powerful, who don't pay taxes. There are drawbacks to the arrangement, which are not obvious. Offshore tax havens aren't necessarily something to be envious of, for a variety of reasons, perhaps some know what they are. Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: Poker Player on October 05, 2021, 02:25:05 AM To me, although I prefer a society with low taxes, and it seems normal to me to want to minimize the payment of taxes, what surprises me is how hypocritical you have to be to be a head of state/government/important politician and commit tax fraud. That is, you are forcing people to pay taxes, usually by spending more and raising taxes, while you hide your wealth to avoid paying them.
Mr Guillotin invented a good system to deal with these cases. While the common guy is subject to taxes with no loophole or hideout.. In reality with crypto the common guy has an easier time hiding what little wealth he has from the authorities. Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: Darker45 on October 05, 2021, 04:58:12 AM Quote Politicians Philippines Andres D. Bautista, former Chairman of the Commission on Elections and Chairman of the Presidential Commission on Good Government[32] Philippines Rolando Gapud, businessman and former associate of the late dictator Ferdinand Marcos[33] Philippines The family of Win Gatchalian and Rex Gatchalian, Senator of the Philippines and current mayor of Valenzuela City[34] Philippines Arthur Tugade, Secretary of Transportation[35] Philippines Dennis Uy, businessman, Honorary Consul of Kazakhstan to the Philippines and business associate to Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte[36] Businesspeople Philippines The Aboitiz family, Philippine businessperson[41] Philippines Joselito Campos, Jr., son of Jose Yao Campos, Philippine businessperson[42] Philippines Helen Dee, daughter of Alfonso Yuchengco, Philippine businessperson and banker[43] Philippines The Gaisano family, Philippine businessperson[44] Philippines Oscar Hilado, Philippine businessperson[45] Philippines The Tantoco family, Philippine businessperson[46] Philippines The Wenceslao family, Philippine businessperson[47] Philippines Enrique K. Razon, Philippine businessperson[48] Philippines The estate of Henry Sy including his children Teresita Sy-Coson, Philippine businessperson[49] Ugh, how shameful! It appears The Philippines is the country to beat here. A developing country whose disparity between the rich and the poor is so wide one cannot imagine ways to narrow it down. In The Philippines, one rich person could literally spend hundreds of millions in signature bags while an entire family mired in poverty cannot even manage to eat a single complete meal their whole lives. The least that these businesspeople could do is to pay the right taxes and hope that they will end up wisely spent. They couldn't even manage to do that. On the other hand, many of the politicians above have always been doing their thing in the name of good governance. Sometimes, you get carried away by their sweet talks. But thanks to a document such as the Pandora Papers I am reminded not to ever trust them. I couldn't be blamed for my cynical attitude. Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: NeuroticFish on October 05, 2021, 07:39:44 AM I'd love to see some American ones, because I know damn well my country isn't exempt from this. While I understand what you meant (U.S of A), both Americas are represented, from Mexico to Argentina and Chile. But you're right, US and Canada are strangely missing this time. Update: I've found out on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_named_in_the_Pandora_Papers) that USA and Canada are also represented. Strangely no politicians, but still something... Quote Robert F. Smith, American investor and CEO of Vista Equity Partners and Democratic Party donor[7] Robert T. Brockman, American billionaire and CEO of Reynolds & Reynolds and Republican Party donor[7] Jared Wheat, drug smuggler former CEO of Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals[62] David R. Hinkson, convicted criminal and founder of WaterOz[62] Apple Inc., American technology company[24] Abbot Laboratories, American healthcare company[24] Baker McKenzie, American law firm[24] Nike, American clothing company[24] RJR Nabisco, American tobacco manufacturer[24] Jacques Villeneuve, Canadian racing driver[86] Elvis Stojko, Canadian figure skater[86] Is this different than the Panama Papers? Yes, it's different. Wikipedia tells at the start of Pandora Papers page: Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora_Papers Not to be confused with Panama Papers or Paradise Papers. Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: Bttzed03 on October 05, 2021, 09:13:00 AM ~ Philippines Arthur Tugade, Secretary of Transportation[35] Ugh, how shameful! It appears The Philippines is the country to beat here. A developing country whose disparity between the rich and the poor is so wide one cannot imagine ways to narrow it down. In The Philippines, one rich person could literally spend hundreds of millions in signature bags while an entire family mired in poverty cannot even manage to eat a single complete meal their whole lives. The least that these businesspeople could do is to pay the right taxes and hope that they will end up wisely spent. They couldn't even manage to do that. On the other hand, many of the politicians above have always been doing their thing in the name of good governance. Sometimes, you get carried away by their sweet talks. But thanks to a document such as the Pandora Papers I am reminded not to ever trust them. I couldn't be blamed for my cynical attitude. Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: Ucy on October 05, 2021, 09:49:26 AM Wish the list is very detailed, with proofs on how each individual broke the law with this acts. And I will probably need to hear directly from those accused.
I don't think this is the right way to pass judgment on people even though I would want those who truely did wrong to be given the punishment they deserve. As far as I can tell, it's not good for people to dodge tax they deserve to pay, but I'm sure if it's a crime to hide your money unless it's not allowed by the law for good reasons. Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: Darker45 on October 05, 2021, 11:18:12 AM ~ ~snip~Philippines Arthur Tugade, Secretary of Transportation[35] Of course, it was both valid and legal. Tax avoidance has always been legal in this country. Tax evasion is not. Accordingly, it was also declared in his SALN since 2012. However, such declaration is made under offshore investment, which could either mean deposits in a foreign bank or shares of foreign companies. His was obviously a company. It wasn't simply an offshore asset; it was an offshore business interest which was never declared as such in his SALN. In other words, there could have been unpaid taxes from the gains of this business interest. Anyway, I'm more than sure this man has something to say which would exonerate him. As always, this is expected. The law will always be in their favor. Sources: 1. https://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/investigative/arthur-tugade-keeps-offshore-account-pandora-papers-icij 2. https://www.rappler.com/business/tugade-statement-offshore-investments-pandora-papers-icij Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: iv4n on October 05, 2021, 11:43:05 AM This is huge... and I am following this as well, there are a few big names from Serbia as well! One of the names there is our current minister of finance... and godfather of the current president, Sinisa Mali, and Nikola Petrovic!
Quote Siniša Mali, Minister of Finance and former Mayor of Belgrade Nikola Petrović, Serbian businessman and best man of Aleksandar Vučić But what will happen with all this we will see... I saw some people from the EU are talking about taking action against these people, but for sure not all countries will do it! I follow the situation in my region, and somehow I don't believe we will see anything more than denying, more denying, news spinning, a bit more denying... some big news that will throw a shadow on all this, and it will be forgotten after that! Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: Bttzed03 on October 06, 2021, 11:01:00 AM ~ Accordingly, it was also declared in his SALN since 2012. However, such declaration is made under offshore investment, which could either mean deposits in a foreign bank or shares of foreign companies. His was obviously a company. It wasn't simply an offshore asset; it was an offshore business interest which was never declared as such in his SALN. In other words, there could have been unpaid taxes from the gains of this business interest. I read some opinions that they're not required to declare everything in detail. As it is now, it looks like he met what was required under the law. I'd rather have corporate tax lawyers together with some auditors look into this than make my own assumptions. Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: beerlover on October 06, 2021, 09:30:59 PM OH MY GOD, RICH AND POWERFUL PEOPLE AVOID TAXES!! HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN!! All jokes aside, did we had any doubt in our mind that these people were avoiding taxes? In my nation there is a trick called "show everything as expense", you could literally go out to eat alone just because you wanted to, get the receipt and use that as business expense, has nothing to do with your business but you can do it.
This is what a small time place does, no grocery store pays taxes as much as they should they avoid it by showing future expenses they did not even paid for yet, just from their upcoming expenses that they agreed on a contract, these come to billions when you calculate every single grocery store. If all these small timers can do this, do you really believed that rich and powerful would pay full taxes? If they did, the world would not have been in such a financial chaos, we could have afford every single political problems and pay for people's healthcare and educate for free all around the world, feed the starving, pay for underdeveloped places and much more, but not only rich people but even poor people try to avoid taxes, so it is totally expected, this news wasn't a shock to anyone. Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: Silberman on October 06, 2021, 10:42:28 PM Is this different than the Panama Papers? That paper too got some big names in their lists too. This paper here and the people on the list is the reason why you don't trust the elites and that the only way to move forward is shake the hierarchy and let them all fall down. We need to open our eyes regarding this one because this is a clear evidence that they're all leeches and the taxes only came from us the working class. In a way it is not surprising at all as have known for a long time this is the reality and the rich make use of all the tools they have at their disposal to not pay taxes, and since politicians are in it as well then those loopholes are never closed and they both take advantage of them, but at the same time to see the extent of all of this is really impressive, now in all fairness there are probably some people that have legitimate reasons to store their money at tax havens and they are not necessarily cheating the system, but it is not believable to think that every single person on the Pandora Papers falls into that category.Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: Sithara007 on October 07, 2021, 03:35:33 AM LOL.. in most of the other countries, this revelations are now being discussed and debated. But here in India, both the media and the politicians are silent. Some of the names that were revealed include Kiran Mazumdar Shaw, Anil Ambani and Sachin Tendulkar. And all of these individuals are associated with the opposition party. The silence from the opposition benches were expected.. but no one really understand why the ruling party is also keeping quiet. Perhaps they don't want to antagonize these industry heavyweights.
Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: Kakmakr on October 07, 2021, 05:40:25 AM I also started a thread on this a few days ago, but it was moved to the "Political" section of this forum. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5363798.msg58095118#msg58095118
I am so happy about this leak, because the fingers that were pointed at Bitcoin for tax evasion ...has been bend backwards to point to the people that pointed the fingers. ;D A lot of world leaders and politicians are making decisions about Bitcoin and it's future ...and excuses like tax evasion and money laundering are being used to justify their negative decisions... so instances like this, smash their credibility. ;D ;D Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: pjwaffle on October 07, 2021, 06:16:28 AM Well, It was called panama papers at that time, there were a lot of famous and rich people who took their money to panama and saved tax money thanks to it, do you know what happened? After over $100 billion in taxes were avoided thanks to panama's rules. While the media will portray overseas tax havens as privileged and liberating for the rich and powerful, the who do not pay taxes. There are restrictions on the arrangement, which are not obvious. As far as I can tell, it's not good for people to evade the taxes they deserve, but I'm sure if hiding your money is a crime no Acceptable. >:(
Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: sikke on October 07, 2021, 09:56:24 AM A lot of people are saying that these papers show absolutely no significant sign of bitcoin related wrongdoing, and they are absolutely right.
This just confirms that crypto is transparent and reliable as a payment method. All of the KYC/AML business that has been drummed up are mostly propaganda to restrict access to cryptos, unfortunately. Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: MNbag on October 07, 2021, 11:13:46 AM This just confirms that crypto is transparent and reliable as a payment method. AHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHACrypto, reliable? How is 45 transactions a second reliable when you compare to the millions of transactions that fiat and credit bring? Crypto, transparent? How is crypto transparent when we don't even know the intentions and decisions made by the people who hold some of the largest quantities of crypto in the world or the exchanges that service the transactions? Companies that lay outside the regulations and rules of government, that have incentives to drain people of their money and leave them with bags. Transparency in an unregulated market is often left behind in favor of profits. Hell, crypto can and has been used for money laundering. Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: barbara44 on October 08, 2021, 07:46:23 PM The reason why nothing big happens after such news is the fact that the rich and powerful who get to decide on the big things like this are the ones who are named in the list at the same time. So, we are basically expecting them to punish themselves for getting caught, that doesn't make sense at all.
I mean if it was that easy to convict the powerful people then we would have done it long before pandora papers came out, hell even before panama papers there were many who got caught on corruption and still lived a very happy life because they basically had to convict themselves and they did not, why would they? Powerful people will do everything to stay powerful, including their corruption coming out to light and still shamelessly continue to hold that power. Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: dothebeats on October 08, 2021, 08:09:38 PM I'm surprised that Art Tugade from the Philippines made that list. The other personalities from this country that are listed there are really known for doing illegal things related to money, but that DOTr secretary is not known for his involvement on corruption, or at least that's what I know.
Dennis Uy, a businessman that have strong ties with the president and the administration, is also not a surprise. What's surprising is that no one from the current admin is listed there, for they are also alleged to have strong ties to the corruption re: overpriced PPEs (personal protective equipment) and other such necessities used by healthcare workers here in the Philippines. Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: Fortify on October 08, 2021, 08:29:36 PM While the common guy is subject to taxes with no loophole or hideout, many of the wealthy around the world go about their business in a completely different way: not paying taxes. The Pandora Papers, a recent journalism work, shows factually, with names and dates how this is happening while you pay your taxes. Please, note among the names the Queen of England (curiously, not under "Royalty"). https://www.bbc.com/news/world-58780561 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-58780561) Quote The Pandora Papers is a leak of almost 12 million documents that reveals hidden wealth, tax avoidance and, in some cases, money laundering by some of the world's rich and powerful. Quote The files expose how some of the most powerful people in the world - including more than 330 politicians from 90 countries - use secret offshore companies to hide their wealth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_named_in_the_Pandora_Papers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_named_in_the_Pandora_Papers) It's interesting to see how quickly this news became buried, it has almost become normalized now to the point where people expect huge scale corruption and don't even care to read about it. It got 2-3 days of front page coverage on the BBC and now it has vanished. People are so desensitized that they cannot process the sheer amount of money that these leaders have managed to steal from their countries. The sad part is lots of money gets completely lost because it is so hidden, besides the fact that it should really be helping millions of people instead of a few elites sitting at the top of the triangle. Someone really needs to make a wikipedia especially for tracking any official that has corruption uncovered in such documents so it is easily accessible and make the scale more understandable. Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: DrBeer on October 09, 2021, 11:52:53 AM A question to the participants - what do you think, such a loud stuffing, such a large amount of compromising evidence and "truth" is just an attempt to "convey the truth to people", go a controlled process to divert attention from processes that would really not want to be known about them or paid to attention to them? What are we missing now, diverting all attention to this mega stuffing !? In the modern world, such actions are never done just like that, their goal is always either to distract from something, or to prepare public opinion for something, which in today's situation will be taken unambiguously negatively.
Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: alviemery96 on October 09, 2021, 10:35:26 PM I have seen this news and it is truly remarkable. This is a clear indication of the importance of diversifying into a strong currency, especially if you live in a developing country. development has a weak fiat currency. in the future for sure BTC will be a great alternative. but it also depends on where you live in Asia or the Americas. Does your country accept BTC or not? because if BTC becomes legal then I think they will definitely take measures to collect tax on your BTC income.
Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: Sithara007 on October 10, 2021, 04:02:46 AM I have seen statements from a lot of people who are being named here. Most of them are saying that they just used loopholes in the tax system and their investments are perfectly legal. Some others are saying that their investments were already known to the authorities. In the end this set of leaks would face the same fate as that of the files published by ProPublica a few months ago. Back then also, a lot of hype was generated in the media, but it died down within a few weeks and no one is ready to discuss them.
Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: jaysabi on October 10, 2021, 05:06:42 AM This has been out a long time ago as well. It was called panama papers at the time, there were tons of famous and rich people who took their money to panama and saved on taxes thanks to that, do you know what happened? After 100+ billion dollars on taxes got avoided thanks to panama rules and so forth and rich people got to save all that money instead of paying taxes on it, the only thing that happened was the journalist got murdered (officially ruled as suicide I believe) for outing those rich people. Same as 2008, when the journalist who figured out that banks were playing with fire and knew the risks when they did mortgage bonds and they still did it anyway because they didn't care if they lost since they knew they would be bailed out, so took low risk on high reward thanks to government backing them, that journalist was jailed for breaking confidentiality law. So, when the most powerful people do something illegal, who is there to stop them? Nobody has more power than them so they can do whatever they like. No, the Panama Papers was a different set of documents. The Pandora Papers are a distinct leak of documents detailing different people and gathered from different sources. Undoubtedly, there is some overlap and they are similar in that they both involve a leak of documents detailing wealthy people hiding their money offshore to avoid taxes, but these are separate incidents. It only goes to show how pervasive is the problem of the wealthy dodging taxes. Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: DrBeer on October 10, 2021, 12:48:49 PM By the way, everyone has a question - are offshore zones an officially permitted mechanism? The answer is YES! Actually, the question is - why is it that everyone dislikes that people officially use the officially accepted methodology? If this is bad - then ban it, and that's it, the topic will close, but no, no one forbids ... Maybe they were made specifically to periodically raise a buzz in the media and give them raw materials for their materials and "investigations" ?! :)
Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: bbc.reporter on October 11, 2021, 02:16:11 AM I saw a thread that disappered where it was defending bitcoin and made it appear clean and not used for criminality by citing the Pandora papers. I reckon this is wrong and foolish because those tax evaders can also use or maybe should use bitcoin for their moneylaundering and tax evasion.
Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: enhu on October 11, 2021, 02:39:05 AM I saw a thread that disappered where it was defending bitcoin and made it appear clean and not used for criminality by citing the Pandora papers. I reckon this is wrong and foolish because those tax evaders can also use or maybe should use bitcoin for their moneylaundering and tax evasion. They will probably start using BTC this time now that they know they could be exposed. I have not really downloaded the Pandora papers, I can't even find the link to the real papers nor PDF file of it. But there are names mentioned in the articles like Shakira, Elton John, Ringo Star, and some sports players but we all know where their money comes from. It's those NOBODY guys in the public's eye that's more interesting to know. Anyone really found the link where the names are? Title: Re: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion Post by: turneps on October 16, 2021, 05:05:34 PM The Pandora Files are the leaks of nearly 12 million documents revealing secret assets, tax avoidance practices and in some cases money laundering practices of some of the world's richest and most powerful figures. .
The Pandora Files have revealed networks of companies established across borders, often to conceal ownership of money or assets. The Pandora records show that "the people who can end the possession of secret assets abroad are the ones who are benefiting from it. Therefore, they have no reason to end it". Loopholes in the law make it possible for some people to legally avoid paying some taxes by transferring money or setting up companies in tax havens, however, this is often seen as illegal. morality. |