Bitcoin Forum

 ;D-

Gold is also money because it has value, what you want to say is fiat, be specific.

Fiat is printed and devalued by governments but gold is mined but the demand increased the price, the fiat price decreased by governments is also responsible for increase gold price.

Why not hold both gold and bitcoin, there is nothing bad in that, but I will go for bitcoin first. You said gold are used for jewelry, also used for many other fashion designs, this can not make gold go valueless, people will also still hold gold, but I will consider bitcoin first.

What are you talking about? Gold is not printed; it's mined just like what Oshosondy said. It requires physical energy and equipment to retrieve it efficiently. It has multiple steps process to obtain, whether it's about separating the actual gold from the everyday dirt or anything that gives you Gold. It's the result. There's scarcity in the amount of Gold, but none of it's too little to be significant with fiat.

If you know the history of money or how actual people trade, it's with the use of precious metals that other people might think is worth changing for. In the old times, the trades are happening with different stones or any livestock to buy something. Gold Standard was created to ensure that there's enough value backing fiat. Sadly, it was removed and not active anymore, and they can print even more.

If you are talking about inflation as if in the monetary inflation, yes printing more gold is also inflation. But the key here is the rate. You cannot just print more massive gold "out of thin air." Also, gold is money, and people value hard money more than currency. Bitcoin in the universe without altcoin is even harder money than gold IMO, but the problem is its value has been under dilution by thousand of altcoins. If you value this other cryptocurrency, the supply will be unlimited, just like fiat. Meanwhile, you can't create synthetic gold (yet).

Gold price also will fall if the supply increases or the demand decrease but nothing like that happened for centuries because gold is the most trusted asset to invest at any time but its not really the best at ROI. While talking about the fiat bills its completely different from.gold because government can print any amount they want whereas gold can be only mined as much they available.

My friend, gold is not printed by governments like banknotes, but rather it is extracted from gold mines located in the ground. There are limited quantities of gold that can be extracted from the ground and some countries do not have gold in their territories at all, so the amount of gold is limited and this is what makes it of high value Unlike money, you can print whatever you want from it.
I agree with you that cryptocurrencies are more practical than gold, you can use cryptocurrencies for daily transactions as well as for cross-border financial and commercial exchange, while it is not possible through gold, so we can use gold to maintain the value of assets and use cryptocurrencies instead of paper money in daily transactions and also across borders .

Well both of them have values, the fact is it's not only dependent on the market but it's also dependent on the usage and the community as well, for example in India, people can use gold like USS, anywhere, they can exchange it within seconds or even  buy something else with it. But in other countries this asset is more digitalized.
Plus gold is not printed. We know for a fact that the diamonds are controlled by the big companies to make sure their price remains high but gold is more dependent on the mines and the mineral reserve in the particular state or the country so government doesn't really have a big say in it. They can certainly make changes in the way it's traded and make laws about trading etc.. but they cannot go back in time and make entirely new mines for gold. Plus after the rule of Britishers they stole a lot and not the distribution is not just dependent on geography but on other things as well.

That opening statement is probably the dumbest thing that I will read all year, so congratulations on that. Gold is not printed, it is dug out of the ground at great expense and in a limited quantity compared to most of rare earth elements. You could place all the gold previously mined into less than three and a half Olympic size swimming pools - approximately 190k tonnes in total (in a very dense metal). The very reason that there used to be a "gold standard" - where currency was pegged to the amount of gold a country owned, meant it was almost impossible to print money because there was a limited supply of new gold that could add to these stockpiles. Nobody has found out the magic way to create gold yet, so that it why it can not be artificially created.

good trolling

I don't real get you @OP but the idea of inflation, deflation along with printing of money can't be ignored in the system. Mind you, fiat money can't stay static as per any should be printed because, the human population isn't and so is the available goods both on import and export grounds. So, in other to maintain the value of both fiat and goods, inflation isn't such a bad thing.

Bringing gold into this concept as to having people exchange money for gold, its just value. The value of a thing is got to be expressed in some other thing which which mainly money. It's the way it is!

OP has no fucking idea what he's talking about, and I could almost swear that his post was written by some kind of text spinning bot that can create paragraphs with certain words and ideas in it.  Does anything like that exist?  If not, there's no excuse for such an astounding display of ignorance.  I'm also pretty sure his merits haven't been earned**edit: I take that back after looking at BPIP**--and he's going on my ignore list pronto.

Assuming OP is just uneducated and simpleminded, I would suggest to him that he start reading about economics to get a grasp on the basics before even thinking about creating threads in the Economics section, because all I see is drivel.  

And he says this:


If that's not a face-palming head-slapper, I don't know what is.

Edit:  In the process of putting OP on ignore, I noticed his personal message space filled with this:

He might try reading some of them instead of complaining about the lack of time to do so.

Honestly, I have never seen a post depicting a lack of understanding so deep and even arguing about physical impossibilities such as "printing gold". On top of that you decide to use bold and large letters. I am keeping this as an example of how not to post.

As I write, I have just seen your personal text "so many books so little time". That explains why you have not read any on these topics.

Anyway, little by little:

- Gold cannot be printed, it has to be either mined and then refined any of the different metallurgic techniques , or found in sunken ships o stolen. Even the last two do not actually create gold. So it is not printed, it is "minted" and that requires WORK. Please keep this in you mind for a moment.

- Bitcoin cannot be printed. It has to be created by mining a block. It requires WORK (hence the "Proof of Work" concept).

These two bitcoin, and gold, cannot be produced cheaply (AKA printed). So they can be inflationary or deflationary, but in any case the supply is severely restricted, so even with moderate increases in demand the price rises quickly, so is safe to say that in general they are deflationary respect to fiat and to other goods. There is an scenario in which bitcoin would be inflationary (or gold) and that would be if the demand drops sharply. In fact, sometimes bitcoin has inflationary stages when the price has gone very high very quick and all the sudden drops.

- Fiat and currencies in general require little effort to be produced (AKA printed). They can be inflationary or deflationary. In fact, Japan had some deflationary periods that caused mayhem in the economy. Anyway, fiat is usually inflationary because is under the control (more or less direct) of Governments. It is just too easy to inject money in the economy producing a temporary growth in the economy, but it does not end up well if sustained in time.

Well, I hope this helps you understanding the world. For further reading, search inflation and causes in any search engine of your choice as well as "fiat money".

If you have made out some very basic comparison about the two then i dont see for this question to be relevant or totally non sense at all because all of us do know that gold cant be printed out and this isnt fiat

money that you could simply produce out via printer and viola, it would add up on the entire circulation and come to think on how hard to get gold itself which is a natural mineral that can be found on earth.

It does have monetary value but doesnt mean that it would be automatically gets on its full properties which is totally shit if you do ask me.

I totally agree with you.... maybe the OP doesn't understand the meaning of the two, as we know that in the mines, it's in the form of pure seeds, which will be shaped according to market demand and the prices that follow and this is not a manufacture or gold printing is like money whose price / nominal can be determined so that when you make more even with a very large nominal it will create inflation and this is clear

Inflation means the growth of prices due to the loss of value of currency. Since no one is using gold as a currency, even if its value was decreasing due to increased supply, it won't cause inflation.

Bitcoin can't fully replace gold as store of value, because they have different properties. Being physical or digital can both be advantage or disadvantage in different situations. And in some point in the future Bitcoin will finally reach "moon" and it will start behaving more like gold with small yearly gains.

Fundamental supply and demand.

The supply of fiat can be expanded and printed in higher volume. This expansion can be achieved easily without obstacles. Increasing supply, while demand remains constant, generally reduces the value of a thing. (Higher volatility than gold.)

The supply of gold can only be increased by mining it from the earth. This expansion is much more difficult to achieve. Supply doesn't shift as drastically or severely as printed money. (Lower volatility than fiat.)

Supply of cryptocurrencies like bitcoin, could be even harder to expand than gold. Due to it being algorithmically limited. As Steve Jobs once said, better methods to extract gold from the earth will be devised as technology improves. While bitcoin's mining difficulty will never be overcome, no matter how much the technology of ASICS or GPUs advance.

It seems you are raising a number of issues. Anyway, a couple of points:

• Money printing does not necessarily cause inflation. It is also not the main reason for inflation. Also, inflation is not to be entirely avoided.
• Gold's use is not solely limited to its being a store of value. You're definitely wrong in saying gold has no use in real life. Gold is important in electronics, for example. Therefore, gold and cryptocurrency are not really competing against each other within a single market such that people have always the option to either go for gold or crypto.

It's all about supply and demand and you already know it in my opinion. Even if the government print more money it does not mean the value will inflate. If you compare money(fiat) to gold, money won't survive for too long as it will get old and torn apart if not very careful while gold is still intact. Anyways, that is just one of the reasons why people value gold more than money.

Did you just really assume that gold was something that anyone with power could produce? Anyhow, on the topic of why people choose one over the other is simply because of the rule of supply and demand. Fiat supply is known to be controlled/regulated by the government, while crypto is set in stone, and while taking into account that the more quantity of something has, the lesser value it would have (unless, ofc, the demand for it is continuously increasing together with the supply).

Well if everyone had the same mindset as you then it may happen to be as such. But no, people still have that demand for gold, so it's value wouldn't necessarily go down just because some people think that cryptocurrency is better.

Gold is not printed, it is mined and its extraction is very costly, because on our planet it remains only in hard-to-reach places. Therefore, it is impossible to dramatically increase its reserves. In addition, unlike paper money, which in itself is of no value, gold itself, as a rare metal and jewelry, is of great value. Therefore, an increase in its production within the limits of the reserves of our planet does not lead to its noticeable depreciation. However, if we assume that in the future gold can be delivered from space, then an increase in its amount can also lead to its depreciation.

I guess that OP is talking about gold certificates,not actual gold.
Printing more gold certificates will also create inflation,because it will lower the value of those gold certificates,since there will be a difference between the actual gold being mined and the growing amount of gold certificates.The increased quantity of an asset lowers it's value.This is what creates inflation.
If the quantity to actual gold being mined increases a lot,the value of the real gold will also drop.
The "concept" that printing more money creates inflation cannot be eliminated,because it has been proven multiple times in real life.You can't just "eliminate" a process,just because you don't like it.
You can't tell the people what to buy and when to buy it.It doesn't matter if it's gold or cryptocurrencies.

The phrasing in the original post is indeed weird since, as others pointed out, gold is not printed. However, if we consider sudden discoveries of more gold, it's a real problem and it caused inflation before (see this famous story (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_revolution) for more information). Such events don't happen as often as printing more fiat does, but they're possible, and thus gold isn't fully protected from inflation. As for cryptos, though, many are also without fixed supply, and it can be fairly easy to make some more at any point, especially if the coins doesn't have proof of work or proof of stake implemented. Only some are like Bitcoin, having mechanisms in place to ensure fixed total supply as well as limited circulating supply (halvings).

It actually depends on what the printed money is used for. If you print alot of money to encourage production of things that are abundant in supply rather than for just consumption purposes (especially for consuming things that are not abundant in supply) you will likely not create inflation.
Gold is limited in supply, or better still, it is not abundant in supply unlike paper fiat currencies. You can't print alot of gold to affect the demand of goods and services .. And it's typically not used as currency

actually......   Gold is not printed but I get the point you are trying to make.   Gold is not terrible common thus is value.  gold Production is very stable and its rate barely moves much from year to year.  thus its stability its cost for production is also very stable thus is stability. 

I will use an example passed to me a few years ago.

imagine you are in ancient Rome and wanted a good set of clothes to be seen in at a party or whatnot.   The cost on average would be About 1 ounce of gold.    Travel to present day a Good suit will cost you About 1 ounce of gold.  So despite the vast movement of fiat currency. Currently the Perceived value of a excellent set of clothes is pretty much the same.   


the price fluctuation in gold is Mostly to do with the perception of the value of the fiat.  if you were to add a couple tons of gold magically to the supply then the price of gold would drop due to the Inflated amount of gold. 

say 10 years from now we are mining asteroids with 600 tons of gold and platinum then Suddenly the value of gold and platinum will start dropping as the material available becomes inflated.

I see a lot of people ridiculing OP but it's a fun thought experiment (I use this term loosely).

Gold, like Bitcoin, operates with supply and demand. So fundamental to Gold's price, is the total supply that is available. Part of that calculation includes mined gold, and unmined gold.

Interesting distinction to make though - we know the total supply of Bitcoin and presumably there will be some point in time where Bitcoins are mined. Gold, there is no determined or set supply that we can fully be aware of. So theoretically, if someone were to find some method in which gold mining were to be optimized involving low amounts of labor and high yield, theoretically you could think of that as "printing gold," just with a limited supply. And what happens when the supply outweighs demand? Prices fall.

The likelihood of this happening is zero of course, but just an interesting way to think about it.

but what is currently happening is the printing of money for production goods, because inflation continues to increase, and on the other hand, gold is also continuously mined, but remains a convincing investment tool. other than what you said, I think gold is offset by the increasing number of requests, so the price continues to increase

Yes what you have asked is a really good question. That’s how the fiat system works, the governments are the ones who keeps devaluing fiat, and the more fiat they are printing means more inflation. As for gold, gold is really not something that you can be mining anytime and all the time like you would do printing of Fiat. So, it has more value because of the scarcity, it is not like other precious metals that can easily be found.

Another reason why the value increases is because there are always lot s of companies and people that are ready to buy gold either for investment purposes or for using it to manufacture/create other products you would see in the market. So there is a steady need for it, and that’s what increases the value, even if you mine more people are going to buy it off.