Bitcoin Forum

Let's face it - recreational hard drugs are there to stay. Do war on drugs or pretend that all is because people south of Rio Grande are all "rapists and gangsters" - ignoring the fact that millions in US are willing to blow just about anything in their noses or gulp any funny looking pill that promises them a minute of fun, none of that matters. They are there.

And the real victims of it are not the narcos and are not the people who actually use drugs - nobody is forcing them to put stuff into their bodies if they do not choose to (at least in 99% of the cases). Nope, the victims are the people south of Rio Grande who actually would love to have a decent country and go about their legitimate business without being at risk of being killed or knowing that it is even worse to call the Police and that the political and justice system is so broken that they basically on their own.

It is not going to go away. The DEA will be there self-justifying by capturing a few, more will take their place and the circle will go on and on.

It is time to assume the truth and legalize. And get taxes from it. Is that ethical? I think so.

The impact on Central America would be huge, as this huge market would surface and there would be no need for all the violence that surrounds it. It will give a decent chance of survival to a number of government systems that are failing against the might of the cartels and contribute with taxes and exports.

In US, just as when the "Prohibition" ended in US, the dark economy was greatly reduced. Drugs would have controls and would be no different from Alcohol (a drug arguably) and the recently legalised cannabis.

I recently saw this documentary about the research on Mushrooms and Mycelium done in the US after the first world war to see the healing effects of mushroom, especially psilocybin mushrooms or magic mushrooms. The group of scientists who worked on them describe promising results in stress management and letting people live happy lives. The problems arose with the 60s when the US needed young people to go to work or go to war and they were instead going in droves to explore spirituality and explore their true selves under the effect of these "drugs".

It lead to a mass campaign about the ill effects of recreational drugs, especially the magic mushrooms. That culture clash has never really ended. Especially when the Anti-drug lobby is the major drug companies themselves.

This is not to say that there are no ill effects of drugs. Yet, the general increase in crime and associated degeneracy is more a reflection of the society itself, rather than purely mental effects that drugs can have on a person.

Bad or Evil Law create problems like that in societies. Rather than create laws that become burden to people, create something that they can't find too difficult to obey so you don't create anarchy or lawlessness in your society.
If a good natural drink is safe for consumption, why ban it in the first place? If it has consumption limit that could cause problems to the drinker/society if surpassed, then create a law that prevents people from taking too much or abusing it. *This is limited to things that have been permitted to us (by the CREATOR of our World) to consumption.

The negative effects of the worst use of any medical recipes will be greater harm than violence and the black market you promote.
The control is not done by security forces, but a comprehensive model must take into account many aspects: the minimum wage, education, the problem of refugee and borders, political stability, economic in countries where these materials are cultivated.

Some drug codification includes ensuring that it is safe for human use and does not cause long-term damage but this does not mean to sell all kinds of hope in the disappearance of this market.

Any excessive use of drugs would surely cause long-term damage. Don't believe who talk to you about moderated consumption, it's a beautiful lie.
About the regulation, i think it's always depend on the type of drug; cannabis is a soft drug as lng as it's not taken in a regular basis. I don't think Latin America will take any chance from legalizing any chemical solution that may cause all the damages of addiction in average terms.

I confirm this statement :

     Illegal drugs that are unnatural shod just remain illegal. I'm not saying this because I am against the help it can guve to economical statuses in many countries but instead, I am against it because no matter how much you control yourself to not abuse such substances, sooner or later there will be bad effects on the body. And don't even get me started about the people who would take advantage lf the easy access to these drugs jn krder to abuse it asuch as possible. In my opinion, it may help economies in the short term, but in the long run, it will destroy economies. This will be because of the increasing number of people who'd destroy theur futures because of such substances that they never would've been able to touch had it not been legalized.

No matter how hard governments restrict illegal drugs, it will always find its way to those people who consume it for recreation or to satiate their addiction. I don't think controlling the supply or making it illegal, or declaring war on drugs will make things better, yet I don't think allowing its consumption for recreation will make things better either. It will always be a stalemate case, as abuse will always find its way no matter what stance the government has on illicit drugs.

I say try to limit the sale of the key chemicals needed for synthesizing and creating such drugs, and require certain permits before one can purchase said chemicals and take it home. That may not solve things completely, but at the least people will have second thoughts before trying to purchase and produce such illicit synthetic drugs.

If I remember right, portugal and spain have had success decriminalizing drugs. There is documented real world application for that policy being effective.

.

Sorry the above link is paywalled. There are still many good sources of information with keyword search: portugal, spain, drug decriminalization.

One of the big issues with substance abuse is the lack of good information relating to it.

Meth amphetamines could be a leading cause of erectile dysfunction & male impotence. There are x-ray scans of long term meth abusers brains, which show they have lost approximately 30% of their functional brain matter as a result of the corrosive affects of meth. I think that's the type of information people need if they're to make good decisions on drug abuse.

There are many inaccurate perspectives in public circulation. Many say its only possible to become addicted if someone has a weak will or a weak spirit. Untrue. Drugs tap into the part of the brain that tell the body it needs to eat and breathe. Quitting drugs can be like resisting the natural urge to eat / breathe. Which is part of what makes it so hard to overcome. For some its just a part of their natural environment and lifestyle. Its hard to escape unless their environment and social circle shifts.

I am quite in favor of removing the bans on this issue, and I find it hypocritical.

So many lives have been lost, so much effort in police activity, DEA, etc. in a crime that would end if they were legalized. It would take away their power and the main source of financing for the mafias.

The only thing I'm not clear on is how to address the issue of harder drugs like fentanyl, which is much more potent than heroin, and other new generation drugs.

Regarding marijuana, for example, I think it should be over-the-counter, period. If you can buy alcohol, coffee and tobacco freely, you should be able to buy marijuana. I suppose for drugs like cocaine and heroin there should be a little more control, but I'm not clear on the ideal way to approach that.

In Colombia it was as a bill to legalize drugs, and it was something that impacts only to know it, under which they alleged that people are the owners of their actions, and if they are of legal age they know what the risks are, in the case that Many things are legalized could improve, so much so that even consumption is something medicinal and thus a meaningless network would not be built where a whole network of people is criminalized.

However, they did not approve it, I think that the business model is not only for those who make and grow drugs, but also for the police, and all those who do business to let drugs pass from one place to another, stop perceiving that Money would cause in many of those entities losses that they do not want to assume and it is money that they are used to receiving, of course they did not say that, but it is or what happens in reality, I know it from living in the border area with Colombia.

Decriminalizing personal use of drugs is very different from making all drugs legal.


Drugs like heroin basically replace chemicals in human body that are responsible for certain functions, so it can be impossible/deadly to get off such drugs as the body no longer produces those chemicals.

It's a really hard discussion whether such things should be freely available to people or not. Removing drug cartels is just one part of the equation. Lives ruined by easily available drugs is the other.

Yes, it's true that people find ways to get drugs when they are illegal, but this absolutely does deter some potential users. If getting hard drugs was as easy as going to nearest shop and showing your ID, a lot more people would get addicted. Anyone can have a bad day or a depressive episode and decide to alleviate it with some heroin.

In reality, this is not the case. Nowadays, as long as you live in a city or in a metropolitan area that is of a certain entity, say over 50K inhabitants, you can get all the heroin you want and without showing ID. Also, no matter where you live, nowadays with Bitcoin and the deep web you can also get what you want. The difference is that what they sell you as heroin you don't know what it is cut with.

So your argument that it would be easier to buy it if it were legalized does not hold water. Today you can get all the heroin you want, as long as you can afford it.

As I have said before, I am not sure if it should be just showing the ID or with some additional step, but of course that would end the power of the mafias and empty at least half of the prisons, besides making sure that those who consumed it did not die from consuming adulterated drugs.

Sure thing experienced junkies can get drugs as easily as picking groceries from a store, but for people who never done it it's not that simple, they don't have connections with the drug dealers, they have higher chance of getting scammed or meeting an undercover officer.

And currently America is undergoing a large opiod crisis which has its roots in completely legal prescription drugs. This is a glimpse to what a full legalization of all drugs could hold.

The  "war on drugs" has been the biggest disaster in the history of America, like the prohibition era (alcohol) but it has continued for much longer. Unfortunately it is America as the richest country which has to come up with the right solution because they are the biggest end recipient of all the misery from production to trafficking. The officials are still stuck in the mindset of trying to crush something which is a large part of the nature of many people, intoxication and addiction. If instead of playing a game of cat and mouse with cartels for decades they focused internally on treating drug addicts with compassion then the problem could be fixed at the source. However no government ever wants to take the step of helping addicts and switching this whole game around because it becomes a form of political suicide.

Drug, drug abuse and the government. Apparently, this has been a menace in today's society and sadly, its prohibition or out laying it would never make it go away. You can imagine the level of safety in America, having virtually camera on every street and yet, people still get involved in criminal activities not to even mention drug merchandise.

Out lawing drugs just makes it a big business as it creates a sense of scarcity to it and also, a dangerous business as you can see from the actions of the cartels. I think OP had a point, making a possible relativism with drugs and alcohol. Both are two commodities in which, it's abuse can have a negative impact on an individual but then, one is legal and have been doing well while the other is not.

If the same view as with alcohol could be applied to drugs, looking at the fact that, Portugal and Spain have had some success with the policies on drugs. It could be adopted, properly monitored and taxed as well. Ensuring it doesn't get to the wrong hands as in minors would be the focus now and possibly, individuals involved in an abuse gets rehabilitation.

You have got some points there but there are some points as well that concerns me about legalizing hard drugs.

During the teen years, while children start to become young adults many of them could be gullible or naive when comes to drugs (of any kind).
I mean, who has not heard/seen a teen trying their first cigarette/beer/weed joint the "cool guys" offered to them, in order not to seem lame in their eyes they take it, cought a bit/get dizzy/ get drunk/vomit of front of them, ect. But nothing major happens, it is part of life to encounter oneself on those situations.

Now with drugs like Cocaine, Heroine, Crack, ect. Some of them (specially crack) are highly addictive even after one of a few doses and it is something that could make a naive teen or young adult to struggle months after the first try, leading to all kind of unwanted or depressing situations.

I am usually in favor of libertarian ideals, but when comes to hard drugs, I am not sure it would be a good idea. Just my opinion.

That's the point, legalize what kind of drug? and then controlling consumption or addiction in that scheme should not be easier, it should even be more complex.

The United States is always mentioned, the per capita consumption is the highest for obvious reasons population, purchasing power and addiction, but these variables are a global problem.

In any case we can look or review since it is a very complex issue in existing legal drugs, for example the opioid crisis.

Drugs legal seems to be a way to end violence in the streets, mainly in Latin countries, But legalizing them in the version of hard drugs does not guarantee that contributes to development, in fact, legalizing it in the region does not mean higher income because this type of drug would require other countries to accept that legal sale and fortunately it seems that many countries They are in the process of legalizing certain drugs, but staying "no" on drugs as harmful as heroin or cocaine.

For now there is a path traveled with cannabis in the recreational sense and for medical use.

^{Reference of interest:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid_epidemic_in_the_United_States}

"Hard" part is the part that I do not agree with. I mean you can't just expect people to make stuff like cocaine and heroin to be legal. That is not going to happen, it literally kills people with ONE usage if you do it too much. Sure you could drink booze and drive and die as well, but it is rare for people to drink enough booze to die instantly. So those hard drugs will probably not be legal anywhere ever again.

However stuff like weed not being legal really confuses me as well. If you look at around the world, there is a stigma around it, even leftists of some nations do not like it, I do not get the point. I mean cigarettes are allowed in many nations, nearly every single nation right? Or drink is allowed in most major nations as well. Why not weed? What does weed to do a person that others do not? It should have been legal long time ago.

If you have seen the breaking bad then you will come to know the truth about whole story. I mean though just a series then also it is perfect replica of real life drug peddlers and manufacturers who are running these illegal businesses under their white collar business. There is billion dollar industry which runs on the drugs and this actually converts the white money into black money over the period of time. I mean whenever the money is used in millions of dollars to buy the drugs its obvious that this would be left out as cash form and also would be hidden from government by not paying the taxes on it.

Truly, if it gets converted into the ethical way of dealing it, then industry would boom like crazy.

However, the question still remains: How would you stop the aftermath that will occur after heavy drug consumption and increased diseases and disorders due to them.

Over the years it can also cause genetic disorders which would be irreversible. So ethical or not, comes later, first think about the after math at the cost of recovering taxes.

Nice words Paxmao, I agree with you! In the end, victims are the normal people, who just want to live a normal life, but the system doesn't let them!

If you didn't you should watch it! I think they explained what's really happening, and this is an old documentary, but still many people really miss the point about what is really happening around:

https://i.postimg.cc/RZKX3Rpm/image.png


And you can add Luxembourg to that list:

Luxembourg to become first country in Europe to legalize cannabis - https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/22/europe/luxembourg-cannabis-legalization-intl/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/22/europe/luxembourg-cannabis-legalization-intl/index.html)



In reality, we have drugs that come from nature, and the ones that are pure chemistry! And when people can't get the real stuff because it's too expensive they will turn to cheaper ones, and that cheaper ones are the drugs that can literally fuck you up! Poker Player is right, the reality is that the end-user gets "who knows what", and if the market is regulated that wouldn't happen!

Who didn't should watch America’s War on Drugs! I think it's very educational, you can get another perspective about the whole "drug war" situation!

I also think that it's naive to think that cartels will simply vanish if all drugs were to be made legal. They are so powerful that they can just switch to other activities and keep extending their control over society with their unmatched monopoly on violence. They have already amassed large amounts of money and resources which would allow maintaining their structure for a long period of time.

So you are telling me comparing two worlds, one where it is illegal and you may die and you may get caught and jailed and there are fines and it is risky and you are getting it from people who you have no idea how they are producing it , versus a world where it is legal and you know where you are getting it from and even there is maybe FDA approval pending or done, where you can get it without worrying about doing anything illegal, would have similar situations or the first would even be better? I have to say that is bs. If it is legal then there will be more people who will have access without worrying about it at all.

Instead of getting from some thug in the ghetto, it will be a shop that you will get from. All in all you will be getting it a lot easier without any worry at all which is the proof that people will be using it a lot more as well since it is easier to trust and not worry and not fear.

Michael Moore's "Where to invade next" (part in Portugal) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd7Dc9KTy20 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd7Dc9KTy20)

Jostorres you can take a look at what happened in Portugal and how they did it! People will not use drugs more if they get decriminalized, not if you work on education, improve health care, and probably you can do with the money you get from taxing drugs that will be on the street anyway!

Maybe you can compare alcohol with drugs, you have it everywhere, it's more harmful than some recreational drugs that are banned, but not all people are alcoholics! And if we can learn something from prohibition is that prohibition creates people like Al Capone... and probably it's what we have today, people who are bigger and crazier than old All!

Living in a country where there are no rules governing the people and the law enforcement officers are not doing their jobs can be really but.

I understand how this can be, ‘cause I’ve seen it happen in some places. But that part from legalizing this, what do you think about the government coming out and doing their work?

Imagine in a situation where the law enforcement officers are doing what they’re meant to do by enforcing the laws and making sure that citizens are safe in the country, do you believe that would also make the country a better place? Or do you still think that the only solution to this problem is to legalize all these drugs?

That would make the world better, definitely! When they deal with corruption (I guess the main problem), and with all other dangerous/bad/evil stuff first... maybe they can start with attacking nature!


"All these drugs" sounds a bit complicated for me. What weed has with anything with all that... you plant a seed, you try to give it more light and water, and you get something nice! Why would that be illegal? Just can't get to me, why any plant can be illegal?! You give me your seeds and I will give you mine, it's nature... why would anyone go against that?!

Cartels are only so rich and powerful because drugs doesn't comes cheap and it gets more expensive because of its illegitimacy and it's illegal to make or to have. But if drugs will became legal in that specific country then it will become more cheaper is it gets like the tobacco industry because it's not rare or hard to find anymore.
Sure they've already amassed large amounts of money and already built the right connections including government authorities and uniformed personnels and it's already under their payroll.

The reference we have is the Prohibition in the USA. When it finished, gangsters moved to other activities or simply became legal businessmen - arguably, some of them very successful politicians.

The key here is that even if they move to some other activity, or even if they choose to keep selling illegally, the massive amount of money and power that is currently distorting the society of many countries in Latin America would be much less and that would give a chance to people. It is the scale of the business that is massacring countries.

This is good news if bitcoin is legalized, it has been proven that bitcoin has many benefits and can improve the economy of anyone who invests bitcoin, the growing community and active users are proof that all countries deserve to legalize bitcoin.

The people who might benefit most would be the consumers due to all the unaccounted for negatives that are coming with it.   Supplied normally as any other drug you reduce the damage to society and increase information as to the true cost of usage.  The drug once legalized is just another way to distort your body in some way which we already have legally to some extent.  People would view it differently if legal then if something special pulled out, banned for being too good at its effect.
    If you take a drug the user must constantly struggle to maintain levels in their blood stream while the body is rejecting and throwing it out as a poison, you cant work or do much else as you are involved with the constant task of replacing or balancing the chemical effect it has.   Most drugs are easy to make and supply, banning them just alters the distribution outside known paths where it can be controlled and accounted for in its side effects.


Money is relative only in exchange is there wealth, if your neighborhood is on fire and destroyed you arent rich no matter how much money you have.

I hope that more countries or regions legalize bitcoin, it has been proven that bitcoin can provide benefits for everyone so the reason for being banned is unrealistic, Latin America and other regions need bitcoin to be able to improve the economy so that it can be on par with European countries.

economic problems in Latin American countries that made them legalize bitcoin. they seem to want to be freed from the usd bondage so that their country can recover, of course if it is done now it will have great benefits and impacts for the country's economy, because once it is legalized, of course, more people will have bitcoins, and that means they have invested

Latin America doesn't need a chance, they (we) need a collective brain transplant.
As stated above, to think drug dealers will just "pack up and leave" because drugs are being legalized would be a gross oversimplification. They don't need the money, the same way Elon Musk doesn't go to work for the money either. There's a known fact that Pablo Escobar offered to pay off Colombia's debt if they left him alone.
In Uruguay, prostitution has been legal for decades, yet prostitutes didn't cease to exist. The real difference is the state gets taxes from prostitutes, and they get medical attention, retirement plans, and the whole shebang, and the whole trade is a lot safer, both for the prostitute and for the customer, and the state saves taxpayers' money on paying cops and the whole system to fight against a crime they can't beat.
With the drugs it's a similar problem: under the "head in the sand" policy most countries are following now just to prove how "correct" they are, drug dealers thrive, because, once you reach  a certain level, nobody bothers you, especially not the police.
So legalizing drugs would not make much of a difference to the general public (other than the fact that a junkie would be able to go to a pharmacy and get better quality, regulated stuff, instead of the garbage they use today), but it could make a difference in terms of taxes, and expenses on law enforcement.
That said, the problems for Latin America are many, and most of them are way bigger than drugs. Sure, legalizing drugs would probably decompress the situation a bit, but I don't think it'd make much of a difference.

Most of the women and girls that are being trafficked for the sex trade are being drugged to get them to become dependent on the drugs that are forcefully given to them. It is not just about taxes ....but rather the dark side to the drug industry..that are wrong in so many ways.

I have had friends that stole from their mothers and family members.. just to get money for drugs... and I know of several house burglaries and car hijackings that was done by criminals to pay for their drug habits.

So hard drugs are linked to many gruesome crimes and that is why it should not be legalized.  >:(

IMHO drugs must be completely banned to save the current and upcoming generations from extinction, because drugs are making a person kill another just to steal his money and buy drugs. I have also seen children being drugged to make them beg for those bastards who are behind child trafficking, which is heartbreaking and ridiculous. Even if drugs get legalized, the drug mafia will not let things go normal because they want all this to happen so to keep their business booming.

So how would legalizing cryptocurrency in these countries solve the issue of bad cops and narcos in the society? I believe that there are ways that cryptocurrencies can help the economy of a country, but I don’t really think that in a situation like this where there is chaos that cryptocurrency can really do anything to quench the chaos in that country.

In a situation like this I believe that it is the work of the government to step up and do what they’re supposed to do, and it is also the work of the citizens to come out in huge numbers and protest for what they believe is their right. When the law enforcement agencies start playing their roles effectively, it’s going to help to make the society a better place.

El savador already made a profit when his country officially accepted bitcoin and started buying bitcoin 2 months ago, of course not all countries can accept bitcoin and it takes a long process because usually the senate will always audit all state expenditures, the first step that can be done is to legalize bitcoin so that can be useful for citizens.

Although currently many countries have banned bitcoin but I'm sure they will soon follow countries that have legalized bitcoin like El Salvador, it's time for countries to think about making their people prosperous and bitcoin is a great opportunity to improve everyone's welfare.

Legalizing would be great if it was for things like : Weed
But here we are talking about : Hard drugs
Their health effects, the adverse mental stimulation, how it makes the user addicted, how it might cause chaos is something we all understand. Not everyone is a drug user and not everyone needs to summed up in one situation. Legalizing it medially would be a wise choice but other than that just letting people freely exchange and consume whatever they want is not how things are done. It's not just about the taxes, might as well allow alcohol for teens, you understand why there are rules right ? Even though people might not follow them it would make it harder for them to put their hands on things.
I strongly oppose legalizing hard drugs.
Soft drugs on the other hand might be good for the people and taxes as well. But other than that we cannot let things slide so irresponsibly.

I don't really understand how and what kind of impact the various types of drugs have. Because since childhood I was educated from a fanatical family about such things. Until now, I probably don't know about drugs that are considered illegal, even drugs that have class 1,2 and so on are considered by the government as a threat.

It makes me curious, in some places in the US this is kind of a blunder. On the other hand, the proliferation of distribution has become a normal activity. But the government itself made the decision to fight. So from these two sides, the government actually has two roles at once. Not only as exterminators of illegal drugs, also not a few of them are involved.

It is a self reinforcing circle in which the only losers are the people of Latin America that want nothing to do with the cartels and even the small delinquency that is generated due to lack of prospects is partially due to the drug trafficking. Who would like to invest in a region in which they have to deal with a corrupt and inefficient government that is unable to provide an effective rule of law and security? The answer is companies that are going to take from the land and never create local value.

That's true for the whole planet. I don't think there's one single honest person who'd like to deal with  that. But the fact is most people in government (even in many developed countries) are on the payroll, and they don't particularly care about other people.

Yes, you are right, in fact El Salvador has a huge advantage over other countries, and that is that they live on remittances, and yes, if the BTC is legalized in much of Latin America, it would not only bring more demand and trading volume to btc and it would make it rise even more in price, but it would also begin to generate by the governments taking their good piece of cake due to taxes, it would be a total empire for both the government and the banks, because the banks would quickly obtain greater liquidity, and a good loan offered by a bank to a person in BTC whose BTC price continues to grow will be more money for the bank, of course the opposite process can happen but this would only be a possible scenario and could result in more debt , at least for those of particular economies.