Bitcoin Forum

With the high level of volatility and constant fluctuation in market capitalization on crypto currencies would there ever come a time we would trade crypto based on the value it has in it's self and not in exchange for fiat currency. Many countries has now adopted crypto as mode of payment but we are still faced with the issues of price irregularities. If we decide to adopt crypto fully as a global legal tender how do we deal with this price fluctuation.

This is the edge fiat and centralized currencies have over crypto and this has made so many shy away from doing legal business transaction using some crypto most especially during bear market. Can this issue get a remedy?

This will be dealt with in the same ways other legal tenders are. There are derivatives of gold or gold itself is accepted as legal tender in some countries and these have to deal with balancing price fluctuations too. I think an important thing to remember though, bitcoin is not going to be an omnifunctional asset, it'll see competitors and I doubt countries will give up their original currency in favour of bitcoin (since the ones who print it are paid quite well to do so).

The solution is simply just time. If you think the cryptocurrency space will slowly but surely increase in adoption, then we can assume that market liquidity will increase with time as well; hence lower price volatility.

The lack of acceptance mostly isn't due to the volatility, but simply because of the lack of demand. Merchants don't need to care about the volatility because services such as BitPay/BTCPay allows the merchants to automatically convert the BTC to fiat at the time they receive the payment.

Unless the market is not accessible already then perhaps people may just try buying BTC from merchants they know who owns BTC and buy. The sellers can dictate thier own intrinsic price for which is going to be higher than the market price. I don't that will happen now as anyone can actually go to p2p and make a transaction. 
Fluctuation of price is solved by the stablecoins, you'd be forced to deal with on your own. Stalbecoin how we do it for years already.

I think so. What we don't know is how long. I think things are going to continue to be measured in dollars or euros for a long time, and the scenario where the goods and services you can purchase become measured in Bitcoin and the other assets/currencies only in comparison to Bitcoin has a long time to go.

I still don't understand what do people mean,when they say "intrinsic value"?
The value/price of Bitcoin is determined by supply and demand,plus the costs of mining.
The intrinsic value of Bitcoin is supposed to be the cost of mining one BTC.The supply and demand factor determines the price of one BTC.
The intrinsic value of BTC has nothing to do with the price of BTC being measured in dollars or euro.
The price volatility of Bitcoin will never change.If you hate price volatility and fluctuation,then just use stablecoins or some not-so-volatile cryptocurrency like ethereum or ripple.
Bitcoin/crypto will never be adopted as a "global legal tender" and that's OK.

The only thing for this to happen is when governments accept it as a legal tender over Fiat currencies. If there are no Fiat currencies, people cannot use the value of fiat currencies as a price determination for the value of an item.  ;)

Will this happen in our life time? Answer : Probably not... Fiat currencies still have a strong hold on the older generation and they are the ones that are not open-minded enough to allow for a digital currency to replace fiat currencies. (Just look at the age of the people in government now)  ::)   Joe Biden = 78 years

The intrinsic value of a substance makes it price to fluctuates. If people demand more of bitcoin, the intrinsic value will increase. If fiat is devalued, provide bitcoin price is stable (which is not possible), then the price of bitcoin compared to that fiat will increase. All has been about intrinsic value.

You do not have to deal with anything, just hold bitcoin, bitcoin price can decrease but it will increase over long term, you have nothing to worry about.

The superiority of bitcoin is in the inferiority of fiats to its intrinsic value. Also if governments all over the world accept bitcoin, they are not still ready to give up on their fiat, that is not possible just like you meant in your later post content.

Most crypto does not have anything you could call intrinsic value. Bitcoin does not have an "intrinsic value" because it does not produce cash flows and does not stand for a right for a product or service. As for others, I agree with the OP that most tokens and chains are far to ahead in time of the value they represent. eg. Ethereum value is the ability to execute distributed anti-tapering code. How much is that worth?

Centralized currencies actually fluctuate and lose value over time. One of the best ways to observe this is to pair it with Bitcoin(or some goods/services) long-term, before you know it your fiat money has lost value but the reverse is the case when you hold Bitcoin and pair with fiat.

The high volatility is occasional with Bitcoin. You probably won't notice that if you hold long term and don't pair with fiat currencies.
If Bitcoin has its own thriving and independent economy, we will have the right opportunity to trade goods and services with each other in decentralized peer-to-peer manner.  I have looked at centralized trading and concluded that it's not a good idea. It's not going to be sustainable and will likely make Bitcoin price erratic or usable due to censorship, centralization etc. We need a more sustainable way to trade safely with less likelihood of lawlessly getting stopped, censored or ban . Not a good idea to compete with the system at all unless you are ready to be subjected to it and that could also mean centralization of a cryptocurrency.

Wonder what you mean by instrinsic value, if you think fiat has it, I can gurantee you that Bitcoin has it too even better. We could also have Bitcoin backed by more physical assets too, if that's what you want

In my view, the very concept of "intrinsic value" is highly controversial since it can always be argued that if there are no people to accrue a value to a particular thing, that thing automatically becomes useless. It immediately follows that if the value of whatever kind is always determined by men, it is therefore always subjective, not objective.

Generally, for a monetary commodity to be considered to have intrinsic value, it needs to possess additional, non-monetary, but still decent, characteristics that allow the said commodity to be used outside the monetary scope. Evidently, Bitcoin doesn't have additional use cases other than being used as money, and therefore it is not intrinsically valuable.

Complaining how we still aren't using BTC as a denominator when buying/selling stuff is just ehh. It's a pretty unrealistic expectation knowing how accustomed people are into using their local fiat currencies(especially the USD); and also knowing that bitcoin is just more than a decade old. It's going to take time.

But we can hope for that still. People that we see in the government do not decide everything by themselves. They have counselors and advisors, and those people can be young and open-minded, not to mention that some older folks can be open-minded too. I believe that within the next 10 years or so, BTC will become a widely accepted currency. The probability of that happening gets higher with people losing their trust in local fiat currencies, which is happening nowadays.

It's kind of complicated scenario to calculate the price of products based on the bitcoin or any cryptocurrency itself as standard value and this maybe possible only when this whole world adopted cryptocurrency as the payment mode.

But the value of anything comes from its demand and supply so nothing in this world has stable value all the time so we no need to complicate the valuation just let it be as of now.

It might require long time before we see it happen. Trading crypto based on its value and there's no pair and backing up its value with fiat is likely to be decided by the whole community.

But to look at that matter, most of the things that's being traded in the world are requiring its back up with a fiat value. That's why you'll never know when that day would come that you'll trade most of them without the need to look at its fiat value.

Is that a good thing? Because, at some point, I somehow feel like it is (@: price irregularities). In our kind of field, where no one does the promotions and publicity for bitcoin most especially, it is left for the various exchange to use this as, a means to some awareness and promotions on the site.

Though, I don't think exchange rates even for fiat is the same across all institutions. Its always going to be relative and its relativism counts for something. Bitcoin or cryptos can't be left out although in the later future, there would be a need to some way of standardisation in the price.

If only fiat would perish then that would happen in the future but that's not how it works these days and the fiat currency/value would be gone we should be seeing that intrinsic value of Bitcoin itself. Although, fiat currency wouldn't just perish though since older people aren't a fan of crypto currency or they aren't just tech savvy that's why there's a less adoption for them in crypto.

But I think time has something to do with it but it's just a matter of time then until we are going to see the total adoption of Bitcoin and there's no backing of fiat value anymore. Fluctuations may still vary though since there's always a time where manipulators/whales did something to the market plus the traders.

The volatility issue is that factor that I think may not go away easily and is because there is no regulation for the moment so nobody is restricted from buying or selling any amount in a day. Fiat has control through the banks and large amount of transactions  are limited this hopes to control the amount of cash in circulation.

It'll take a long time before it gains intrinsic value, or perhaps lower price volatility that most people are waiting for since it's one way for crypto to be accepted on many countries in terms of payments and legal status. Right now, people don't see bitcoin and crypto as something that they can use for payments, and most deem crypto as an investment rather than a currency to which they can use to pay for goods and services. Perhaps as time goes by, and as more people use bitcoin, and more businesses and governments dared to accept it, that's the time when change would start to come.

For now, bitcoin and crypto's volatility is its selling point, as it attracts lots of traders who try to make money out of it.

Intrinsic value is not "gained".

Bitcoin already has intrinsic value because of the fact that it is scarce, and no one can ever tamper with the scarcity of BTC.

But at the end of the day, I do think that there will be a time when BTC is used as a unit of account in and of itself. People are increasingly not caring about what price action we can on a daily, weekly basis. We need more merchant adoption and integration for this process to accelerate.

It is not possible to get the full benefit of crypto if it becomes a legal tender to make a profit at the underlying price the government will regulate cryptocurrencies like fiat the introduction of this currency as decentralized is more popular. Investors get more profit for rising and falling once centralized the bull run will stay in one place and will not come prices are rising and falling and the market is volatile. Investors are holding on to bitcoin to make more profit as it is raising the price of bitcoin.

Price flux generally remains between 5%-10% at max per day. Considering that an object being priced in bitcoins will not see much changes even if you use the USD value as a base price, unless you are talking big amounts.

Common day-to-day objects could be bought in marketplaces without much changes in price. This is one explanation of how things can be managed.

You are drawing a conclusion without correct reason. The price flux is not the only factor nor the most important factor behind merchants not accepting crypto. It is the government's negative stance that puts them off. Just think of yourself a law-abiding citizen who is running a business well - would you want to start a new payment method that is outlawed and seen negatively by the media and public in general?

Things may change with more countries adopting crypto, but this will be slow, in fact even in the country where has been done, there is a lot of resistance from public to actually accept it. ::)

There's an expected huge inflation that will decrease the value of fiat in the nearest future or we're already seeing the effect of the last year's slow down due to the covid pandemic.

We don't know what's with it but we're all having the same thoughts about an entire economy that's not backed by fiat. But, that economy might be backed by the biggest cryptocurrency and that's bitcoin.

if the crypto value is based on the value owned not based on fiat I think it's a little difficult because high volatility will affect.
other than that for direct transactions, all places are still adopting fiat. and this is the difficulty crypto is still tied to fiat. so you really have to wait for regulations from various countries' agreements, especially if you want to legalize crypto as a full payment. it will definitely cause controversy

     For now, as of this moment, what you have mentioned currently is somehow an annoying problem and flaw of cryptos in this industry. But then again, we are still in the very early stages. Ghere is still so much time and room for improvement. And if the coins today never evolve, then then some coins wii absolutely launch labelling itself as stable coin and less volatile. People are known to be capable of adapting. And with time, fixing thiese issues will be possible. Which can result into a faster mass adoption.

Do you refer that being less volatile means getting to the state of full intrinsic value? Probably it is a kind of economic perspective, that I never come across or never got chances to think that way. Unfortunately I believe cryptos may not get full intrinsic value in near future as I am not expecting less volatile for them.

Yes, when only less than 10% of world population is using cryptocurrencies so far when it goes into more people then volatility will persist. Moreover, there are unimageable whales are into this ecosystem and their manipulation will take more time to lose its power. So, I am not seeing bitcoin to remain less volatile in near future.

the longer the adoption of bitcoin is increasing and I think this will continue to happen for years to come.
and the answer from the thread you wrote goes back in time. and only time will tell, and when it does happen then your words about trading crypto based on its value without looking at fiat will certainly come true.
and maybe what will definitely happen is the market capitalization of bitcoin will definitely continue to increase over time

It is clear that we may never see bitcoin as the alone standing currency without anything else. We need fiat to calculate things, even if we are buying a cup of coffee, we still need to arrange the price according to fiat pegged price. All in all we may just need to accept the fact that crypto will never be legal tender globally without any fiat in the world, that may never happen.

This doesn't mean that adoption can't increase, the volatility doesn't matter for adoption because we could always calculate on the fly with many tools, and that way you can charge whatever you want at that time, based on whatever the fiat price of bitcoin is, that way it will keep on working as intended, digitally. Obviously investment is a whole another story, because while crypto is great for using it to buy something, it is ten times more used (probably even more) just for investment, and volatility is even good in that case.

The stability of fiat is less interesting than the volatility of Bitcoin.

I think Bitcoin wouldn't be as popular as it is right now if volatility did not become part of it. The unpredictable and sometimes sudden rise and fall of the price of Bitcoin became the most attractive characteristic of Bitcoin itself to a lot of people. The price of which was that Bitcoin became less and less a currency and more a speculative asset. But I guess that's the one that mainly pushes the price of Bitcoin up. Even solid Bitcoin enthusiasts and advocates are now talking of Bitcoin's price more often.

Price fluctuations exist in everything, look at the dollar against other currencies and you will see that the dollar also changes its value over time against those currencies, bitcoin is more extreme in its volatility that is true but if the global adoption that we want happened then the volatility will be way smaller than what we see now, but it will never disappear.

So what you are describing will not happen because even if all fiat currencies disappeared then bitcoin will have a price outside itself as we will still have a lot of altcoins that will have an exchange rate in terms of bitcoin.

That's the reason why crypto became an asset and not a currency. I mean sure there are many people who spend crypto daily, and there are many shops that accept it as well but that "many" is compared to how many we had in the past. If we compare it to how many accept fiat, well all of them do, so it is really not even something we could compare.

This is why I believe that crypto became an investment, because people realized that fiat is stable and will not make you too much profit while crypto is volatile and yes there is a chance you may lose a lot but there is also a chance that you may earn so much money that way, which is what I believe happened with crypto at the time as well. We should hope that bitcoin stays like this if we want to, because in the end if we stop being volatile then people will stop investing as well, more people will use it but that won't be enough.

These are good points, it makes sense that there are some people who love the volatility
of Bitcoin and crypto. If you are a trader volatility offers chances to make gains and
losses for some.

On Bitcoins intrinsic value, what gives it value is:

Limited supply
peer-to-peer transactions
incorruptible software
verified public ledger
software development team
global network of both miners and core hosts

The community has known Bitcoin because of its surprising and unpredictable price. The people love its volatility and much more for the traders. Yet, it never gains the full intrinsic value as a currency but at least, it is found to be useful not just in terms of currency, it somehow in terms of an investment.

To think of becoming a global currency in the future, just maybe but it would never wipe out fiat money as the use of crypto is just an alternative option as more of payment. There is no such thing that could replace fiat, as this is actually impossible.

Intrinsic value is all about estimations and assumptions. This means different formations are followed to calculate the intrinsic value. In some form it has got its full intrinsic value. Just because it gets acceptance as currency doesn't get its intrinsic value. Different factors are taken into consideration. In one formation to calculate the intrinsic value it is all associated with the prevailing market environment, investors willing to hold for profit, etc.

In simple if a product/ico/ipo didn't go well as planned, then the future cashflow on the respective product will be low for sure than the estimation. This makes the intrinsic value go even down than calculated - In this means Bitcoin already have gained good intrinsic value.

There is no such thing as "intrinsic value". Maybe the closest concept is the amount of usable energy a product/service contains

The edge that you describe is "Unit of accounting". This must be the most strange concept in human history. Unlike KG/LBS or Meter/Foot (that can be verified scientifically in all the labs around the world), the unit of accounting in each country's financial system is its fiat money. And to ensure its stability, central banks look at CPI to monitor the inflation and adjust the money supply in according.

This whole concept of price stability of fiat money is just based on people's imagination and blind trust, it has nothing to do with market supply and demand. For example, FED created more than 5X money in a few years after 2008 financial crisis, and the goods and services did not increase that much, if not decreased, but you never see anything's price rose by 5x in that period. Why? Because most of the people do not have financial knowledge, they think USD is just like LBS/FOOT, have a fixed value and it is used to measure the value of anything else, regardless of how much it is produced

But there is no need to wake up everyone when they are sleeping, that is how today's financial system works. They can believe in what they want to believe, while smart people profit from it

In cryptocurrency, you don't have that imagination and blind trust, so you see the value of cryptocurrency fluctuates because of supply and demand. If one day, people start to use cryptocurrency to measure value, then they will discover that everything's price measured by cryptocurrency will keep going down, because of the limited supply of coins and forever increasing supply of goods/services. Those who hold coins would just become richer and richer by doing nothing, and business making production will find out that when final product is released, its sale price already got lower than the cost, so they end up doing nothing too. And that's why modern monetary policy don't take this approach, it will discourage any economy activities and cause recession

So far all major coins were doing just fine in regards to long term profits from investing in them. However, it is not guaranteed that this trend will keep going for a long time. I mean, the volatility may remain, but the emergence of new ATHs may stop happening. From that point investing in crypto will be more like luck-based gambling, but up to the present it wasn't like that.


When BTC stops being volatile it will become useful in other areas, where it can't be utilized with the current volatility level. Maybe some hard core traders will dump it then, but it doesn't mean people in general will stop  will stop investing in it.

If feel like if crypto stopped being looked at or have value from fiat, it would start to lose its popularity at least in the current state of the finical systems, the may reason why so many people have started using and get interested in it is because it has a real high value when exchanged to fiat and its highly volatile which means that a lot of people see it as a way to make a lot of money fast, and that idea has become more and more the mainstream, and people forget what crypto is based on and what it is about, and to be honest i don't think there is a way to control this volatility and it has to stay that way otherwise there will be no difference between it and other currencies controlled by governments.

Yeah, OP is referring that being lesser volatile means cryptocurrencies will hit main stream adoption. I agree with that conception still I personally do not need and I am not seeing the possibilities for that to happen for next 50 to 80 years of time frame. Yeah, bitcoin and most other cryptocurrencies will remain volatile for prolong period from here and which may get into stable state only most world population adapt and use on day to day life along with bitcoin gets all its supply into circulation. As of now, it is time to enjoy the volatile nature cryptocurrencies because our next generations definitely cannot get a such big opportunity.

I highly agree.

The problem with BTC stems from its inherent supply of 21 million in which it will inevitably yield to inflation in the following years. Though El Salvador has accepted and viewed it as legal tender, I highly doubt that countries would shift to cryptocurrency as a form of legal tender ALONE. Fiat will always be the currency that all countries would use even in the far future.

That does not seem like a reasonable expectation. It's the other way around. If everything is measured in terms of a certain crypto currency, then there would be NO fluctuations because the rate of exchange to fiat currencies won't be of any relevance. All that matters is what can you buy for 1 BTC, and that won't fluctuate if it becomes a globally accepted tender, since the items sold directly for it will pin its price to their value (all other factors aside).

Money itself doesn't really have value, not since fiat was created. Its value comes from trust in it as a reliable medium of exchange, and as for Bitcoin's value being measured in fiat, I think it's simply done for reference purposes. What it really tells us is the coin's purchasing power, and lots of local fiats are also weighed similarly against the dollar or other major currency to determine its stance. Regarding the fact that most people sell Bitcoin for fiat to actually use their profits, I think it's simply due to the lack of options of spending Bitcoin directly, and it doesn't mean that these people don't think that Bitcoin is indeed worth $60k or anything.

When we talk about cryptocurrencies, we have to understand the fact that there are some like bitcoins and Etherum and these cryptos are already integrated with some of the countries on a very deeper basis and in come countries it's also legal tender therefore they are very close to getting an intrinsic value settled down. I do think you have to also address the fact that:
Volatility is decreasing day by day, like before we could have been fluctuating around 5000$ or so but right now if something like that happened the price would bounce back up faster than anything, there are people waiting around to buy at the right time.

Therefore the more it gets famous, the more legal it gets and more other things gets integrated with it, it would attain a faux intrinsic value, for sure.

The fluctuations would decrease for sure if it gets recognize all around the world, if bitcoins and other cryptocurrencies starts becoming a legal tender, it would be more or so like gold but more volatile, but still have enough value to be taken into consideration.

We have already seen it that most countries would prefer to have their own digital currencies that are issued by their central banks. So far it has only been El Salvador that has decided to adopt Bitcoin as a legal tender. We are not sure if other countries are going to do the same thing, and by the way that wasn’t the reason why we have Bitcoin today, so I am not expecting it to become illegal tender in anymore country.

If Bitcoin should become a legal tender in every country around the world, then the government will be prompted to attempt a total control over it, which wouldn’t seem like a nice thing for them to do. Bitcoin was created to be a currency on his own that would be used by people who needs freedom and privacy.  So, I don’t get why some of you are still talking about it becoming a legal tender in countries, if you’re not OK with the volatility of crypto currencies, then I will advise you to just take a break.

This one of the sensible answers I have read here. Bitcoin gets its price value depending on the market demand. There are times that the supply is high and demand is low, which is the usual season whereas bitcoin has a low price position. And there are times that the supply is low and the demand is high, giving a high price value to bitcoin. It's just a basic law of supply and demand, which I think most of you are already aware of, that dictates what would be the price trend of btc. But of course, there are also other factors that can affect the chart such as the news about its legality, opinion of a popular and reputable personality, etc.

The price of bitcoin in equivalent to dollars or euro is actually just normal. You just have to have a conversion of something into your local currency to fully utilize it. In this case, the usual conversion of btc is dollar because it is the global currency, and in addition it has become a coin as well in several trading and investing platforms.

Regarding with never ending question about bitcoin to become a global currency, my answer would still be the same. No, bitcoin or any other coin is impossible to be the world's currency. Why do you think the government and the central organization allow such speculative asset to take over? When they could just print money whenever they want and deem necessary? In addition, surely the countries all over the world won't ditch their local currency unless they have no other choice because of economy collapse.

Crypto users continue to increase and when it has reached more than $140 billion daily transactions, this proves that crypto has a strong influence and of course the intrinsic value of crypto is the ease of transacting at low costs, I'm sure more and more countries will make crypto a national asset.

In my understanding, the total worth of daily transactions may not get us the clear picture but if we are able to find out how many transactions are happening everyday might lead us to figure out how intensively we are moving forward to influence in our nation's economy which might enforce to government to plan up like you have mentioned here.

Now few more countries will follow El Salvador and then some of them will plan up to have bitcoin into their reserve along with gold. Still, like OP emphasized for that we must have bitcoin into relatively stable price ranges. I agree with OP that until being volatile, bitcoin may not be qualified to be used as national reserve.

And yet, although BTC is still very volatile, they made it a legal tender in El Salvador. Now they are harnessing volcanoes to power Bitcoin mining; buying BTC at the deep, like they did just recently purchasing $25 million worth of BTC at current prices(and they consider it deep! I'm a big fan of these guys.)

I think other countries should learn from El Salvador and start the adoption process instead of waiting for BTC to become a stable coin. Chances are it can take forever.

Yeah agreed. Also lots of markets are now being tapped. Artist are now into it through NFT's. Gamers are now into it because of Play-to-earn cryptocurrency games. Aside from decentralised finance that still blooms year by year, lots are happening that getting crypto into far more audiences that could lead to total dominance in monetary system.

What we need as data is how many people are using it. The adoption is based on how many people and not how much money. If there are 100 rich people doing 140 billion, that won't be same as 8 billion people doing 20 bucks each or something like that. Which is why I believe that we should be looking at how many people are using it. That is not really the same thing as how many addresses, one person could have multiple address and I have a lot of them just myself as well. Which is why I believe that we should basically try to find the crypto population.

It is kind of odd but the reason people are not using bitcoin for their everyday transactions and instead keep their bitcoin and prefer to use their fiat is simply because bitcoin is that superior to fiat as a currency.

It may seem counter-intuitive but it is not, if you give people a choice between spending a form of money that losses purchasing power and one that gains it, which one do you think they will spend and which one will they keep? It is obvious people will spend their fiat and keep their bitcoin, which is precisely what we are seeing happening right now.

What happens is that to give a value, it is something very subjective, in terms of appraisals this is usually seen as an appraisal of firms that is very difficult to do, because a value must be taken into account (which is calculated based on the offer- demand on average with the value that the devs can give in the project) from there get the total to determine how much it can be, and that has to be accepted in almost everyone, and the maximum that can be given is that, just a security because the price is determined by supply and demand, the market is very volatile.

In NFT games it is something like luck, as it happened in the Squid's NFT, in 5 minutes it reached zero, it is very difficult to predict that this would happen.

The price is determined by stock and demand, bitcoin has 2 things that make bitcoin valuable, bitcoin stock is fixed and the number of users or high demand makes prices continue to skyrocket and this is the basis for bitcoin's value.

^S2F fanboy :D

Anyway, the concept of "intrinsic value" is outdated. What does it mean? The value in itself? The labor? The cost?
Even in stocks, the concept is flawed since it's the present value of all future cash flows. It means that you must forecast the firm future cash flows. Except you are Nostradamus, you just can't calculate it correctly. In the end, it's more of your belief of the firm's future cash flows.

Belief is a nice segue to the subjective theory of value. Basically, scarcity and utility are the best predictor for valuation.

It is not "outdated", it is just not something that works in most places and in regards to most things. For example if you checked Tesla for instrinct value only then you would not buy it, but then you lost so much profit from not buying it. However there are still a lot of insurance companies and banks that could be bought based on that and you would make a lot of profit from it. Same goes for many other things, you could make a lot of profit if you want to, and that is not going to really change the fact that IV works in some cases and not working in other cases.

So, you need to find a way to understand what it works on and what it doesn't work on. Obviously it is "outdated" like you said in things like crypto, if you are looking for Bitcoins IV then you are going to not end up with something that is profitable, because it doesn't really have any at all.

I do not really know for cryptocurrencies in general cause there are so many of them, but the one I trust and believe in its network is Bitcoin and when I talk about crypto, more often than not, I talk about it alone, I believe Bitcoin will continue to grow, as the years keeps coming, until it gets to mass adoption, and I think at that very time it's very possible that we'll see a lesser case of volatility than what we're currently experiencing at the moment.

Having said that, tbh, I don't expect volatility to completely go away, but we could get to a time when it becomes lesser, but even if it doesn't, it's not too much of a problem if you ask me, as long as its users have freedom of their funds, are their own bank and the investors can get ROI, then there is no problem that needs to be solved.

Does crypto really to have a "full intrinsic value" that you are talking about? I don't see any issue with crypto being traded and valued in fiat currency. The volatility isn't because of this. As more people start using and accepting bitcoin, the less volatile it will eventually become. We can't deal with the price fluctuation. No one controls this fluctuation. Just give it few more years (or even decades) and you will see that the price isn't as volatile as it is.
You mean the volatility is making business not accept crypto? Well then they can use crypto gateways that will instantly convert their crypto to fiat currency.

How is that? If crypto was used to directly buy goods and services, then there would be little pressure on it to be volatile!

I like how you put it. Imo those are two main factors too. But regarding to Bitcoin, although utility is there and scarcity is definitely there too,  it is still so hard, almost impossible, I'd say, to say even roughly, is it trading below its "intrinsic value" right now, for example.

We can only judge the value of a cryptocurrency by comparing it with the price of fiat. There are no other methods for assessing value in our world. When there was no fiat, there was exchange in kind, but it was found to be cumbersome and ineffective.
There will always be price volatility in cryptocurrency. This is a feature of this market and cannot be eliminated in any way. Therefore, we say that cryptocurrency can only exist alongside fiat. On the other hand, states will not allow their national money to disappear.

that's the importance of liquidity in each new project to make it more valuable, maybe many ignore or even don't care but that's a start that makes crypto a special concern at this time

Intrinsic value is an old concept that basically says the value "in itself" (https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/value-intrinsic-extrinsic/) Thus in stocks it's the underlying company or firm's value. It's obvious, stock value = firm's value. However, in modern education, they (the professors) often link the term to teach present value of cash flows approach, which is flawed, thus outdated IMO. It still uses historical cash flows analysis + cash flows forecast. Give the task to 1000 people to determine the intrinsic value of a stock and they'll come up with 1000 different numbers.

In Bitcoin, the intrinsic value concept is even more strange. What's the value "in itself" of Bitcoin. The coin doesn't have underlying company and cash flows. You can use the approach of cost/work tho, but it doesn't give an excellent answer either.

Well, if you ask many economists including Dr. Nouriel, he'll say the intrinsic value of Bitcoin is zero ;D
They aren't lying tho since the intrinsic value approach is not correct.

You can use a different approach, let's say VISA ($469.22B) + Mastercard ($344.99B) at least Bitcoin market cap is $814.21B <= utility only from payment processing. There are other payment networks, so you can incorporate it into your estimation. Or if you think there are other utilities other than payment, you can add it as well.

Unfortunately you are right. If the world was a peak crypto world, then we would have things all in crypto and not pegged to fiat, how do you know an apple should worth 1 dollars? It says on the price tag, that is exactly how the world could have been.

Imagine there is a minimum salary requirement with crypto prices, like 0.001 bitcoin or whatever, imagine a world where you buy everything with bitcoin and sell everything with bitcoin. In that world we wouldn't need to actually work for fiat, there won't be a fiat, it would all be in bitcoins and in that world there is no need to peg anything to fiat. Obviously this is a pipe dream that will never happen, but it would definitely be possible as well.

One might argue that "intrinsic value" is kind of an oxymoron...
Nothing really has intrinsic value. the value of "anything" relates to what you can buy with it, or what you can exchange it for.
Before currency was created, salt was used as a means of payment (that's what the word "salary" comes from).
Then, fiat currencies were born as nothing more than documents in which the central financial authority of each country promised the beholder they'd exchange the document for its value in gold upon request. Now, you'd be hard pressed to find a gold ring inside a vault on any central bank in the world.
Will cryptocurrencies' price stabilize? Maybe. It can also be argued that's the purpose of stablecoins.

I agree, the concept of intrinsic value is mistaken, nothing has value by itself, the value of something derives from what humans can do with it.

A good example of this is oil, for a very long time people made holes on the ground to find water and if they found oil then they will curse their luck, then people learned how to do something useful with it and now if someone found oil then they will be happy as they know they will earn a lot of money, and then if at some point in the future we could find a replacement for oil that was way better then oil will lose its value and people will curse their luck once again.

It might not happen soon, or even for current cryptos. However, it's not really a stretch to imagine a unified currency ruling the world in the near future. It will, by necessity, be decentralized since no country will willingly accept another's control over its economy. It has to happen organically, otherwise current rich countries would have no incentives to "allow" competitors on their turf. However, if it penetrates the world sufficiently, the transition would eventually happen because the need exists. It's only blocked by policies.

I have this hobby: Once in a while, once per half a year, maybe, I google "How much money is there in the world?". Right now they say "There is approximately US$ 40 trillion in circulation: this includes all the physical money and the money deposited in savings and checking accounts. Money in the form of investments, derivatives, and cryptocurrencies exceeds $1.3 quadrillion." (https://www.rankred.com/how-much-money-is-there-in-the-world/)

Then I devide the highest number(keep in mind that each time I check it's different) by the total number of BTC possible

1,300,000,000,000,000÷21,000,000 = 61,904,762

And today we can get around $62 million from such calculation. I consider this as the upper limit for Bitcoin price: $62 million per 1 BTC. If someone would tell me that BTC could cost $100 million one day, I'd say, no way. :)

These can be just some criteria to determine the intrinsic value of BTC or any crypto, but it is not that simple, obviously the first thing to analyze is supply and demand, how it behaves in quarterly periods or as best established, it should also be It is considered that the volume of BTC and crypto are not consolidated, that the volume shown in some exchanges is specific and that all the volumes of most exchanges are taken from the most dominant, in 2017 it was taken from the volume of Bitfinex, currently can be taken from Binance, there are also other things to take into account such as blockchain, mining, all this must be taken into account to give an intrinsic value and this is something that can turn out to be something very complicated because everything would depend on criteria.

With the strength of the crypto community, public recognition and trust will continue to increase, currently there are too many FUDs from various sources so that crypto growth is hampered, but I believe that the future of crypto will continue to shine and this will make the value of crypto reach full intrinsic value.

I can't guarantee something like that just based on what people want. Popular voting for "free healthcare" in USA is above 70% right now, a topic that is supported by more than 70% of the citizens of that nation, guess what the politicians are doing about it... nothing, absolutely nothing.

It is not even about population or popularity or voting with your ideas and nothing like that, you could have 70%+ support for one topic but if the companies are bribing politicians enough then anything that is even as high as 70% supported won't be put into place because politicians are getting more profit this way and both isle is faulty there. These type of things happen in every nation, there are situations where we literally end up with something popular and everyone wants and they still don't do it. Crypto "could" become something like that, it is not like that and it may not become like that but I can't guarantee anything.

Unfortunately, it is unlikely that this problem will be solved in the foreseeable future. You probably noticed that the prices of cryptocurrencies are not controlled by the demand and the community and the big players, the same big crypto exchanges and investors. Based on this, they are unlikely to give up the opportunity to constantly make a profit, both with an increase in the price of cryptocurrencies and with their fall. To solve this problem, it is necessary that there are no large holders, and the cryptocurrencies themselves are distributed as much as possible around the world. Then the price may appear and will depend on the value of a particular cryptocurrency.

it's a little complicated to calculate product prices based on bitcoin or cryptocurrency, unless we pay for the product directly into fiat during transactions, if we have to hoard bitcoin every transaction there is a possibility it will drop from the initial price due to market corrections, the seller will experience losses and it's difficult to turn over capital
then in my opinion it is difficult for crypto to be used as a means of payment like fiat

There will always be large holders, this is not NFT that you can limit what people are doing or how they are profiting. This is why I believe that we should definitely focus on making as much profit as we can and hold as long as we can and ignore all those whales and manipulators. Sure it is a hard thing to achieve when you see your entire life savings go down 80%, but if you do not wait then you can't make a profit.

Let's assume you had 10k, and bought at 20k during 2017 December period, wrong move? I do not think so, and the price went to 3k, so your 10k became 1.5k dollars, lost 85% of your entire life savings and you should sell it before it goes to zero right!! Well wrong. If you waited and sold at the top, which is nearly 70k, then your 10k would have turned to a little close to 35k dollars. So forget about manipulators, and forget about panic selling, in the long term you make a profit.

It is very difficult to try to give an intrinsic value, since we take into account that for this we must do a kind of capital appreciation, and this is actually very complicated, because the sources are supply and demand, data must be sought directly from the Exchanges and the Exchanges do not give or publish these data, since in most of them they appreciate all their history with their respective KYC and they will not risk giving such sensitive information, and on the other hand the criteria of the person who If you have to do that appraisal you have to have a good idea of how the market moves, it is something that turns out to be very difficult, not impossible, but very difficult. If it were a case that you had to do, you would charge a lot to do it.

It's very difficult for crypto to gain the full intrinsic value because crypto needs a lot more effort to become among everyone. Similarly the fluctuations in its price are the actual problems as the price of different products changes on daily basis so in order to do that a lot more had to be done. Some standards had to be made in order to fix a price while the ratio of profit should also be fixed

That's prolly an edge fiat has over crypto, but there are other advantages a cryptocurrency like Bitcoin has over fiat, it's a hedge against fiat devaluation, it gives its users freedom and control of their funds, thus making them be their own banks etc, why I'm highlighting this is that the network can't be totally impeccable, just as it has its own problems, so does fiat, and just as people have reasons to pick Fiat over Bitcoin, so do many other people have numerous reasons to select Bitcoin over fiat. Mind you that a coin like Bitcoin hasn't been around for so long for you to expect its volatility to just disappear, the network is definitely heading for mass adoption, and I think until then, spontaneous volatility will be a part of the network, and tbh, it's not so much of a problem as people make it seem.

The answer is both very simple and at the same time difficult. As soon as the cryptocurrency is an element of the expression of value, for example, the gross product, how does the same fiat currency work in every country. More precisely, something like this with its own nuances :) But then the question arises - what products / services will form this value, and even considering that cryptocurrencies are decentralized? Perhaps you need to look for another "ruler" to measure cryptocurrencies. The classic, fiat approach is most likely not feasible