Bitcoin Forum

It is yet another example that Bitcoin is the best safe-haven asset and the best hedge against inflation, managers start acting as if it were:

Jefferies’ Chris Wood boosts Bitcoin holdings to 10% at the expense of gold. (https://www.investing.com/news/cryptocurrency-news/jefferies-chris-wood-boosts-bitcoin-holdings-to-10-at-the-expense-of-gold-2670796)

"The Global Head of Equity at Jefferies (NYSE:JEF), Christopher Wood, has joined the group of investors that are ditching gold for more Bitcoin exposure. He has reduced his position in gold to expand his investment in the world’s largest cryptocurrency.

This isn’t the first time Wood is forfeiting gold for the sake of Bitcoin. In December 2020, he cut down the gold stock in his long-only asset allocation for USD-based pension funds from 50% to 45%.

Interestingly, Wood has not always been a fan of the digital asset. He had carefully avoided crypto investments in the past due to security concerns. However, he has had a change of heart just like most institutional players of recent."

I think this news is pretty bullish. We have another financial manager who just a few years ago did not believe in Bitcoin and now has come to consider it better than gold, also putting his money where his mouth is: progressively increasing exposure to Bitcoin at the expense of gold.

I think in the long term gold will continue to have value mainly as costume jewelry, but as a store of value Bitcoin is going to eat into it.

This is just the beginning, many people that did not wanted to invest in bitcoin before will have no option again when they see their other investors investing in bitcoin, this is just one of the bitcoin adoption process, it is digital and the world for conveniences are going more into digital era. Bitcoin is getting stronger, many investors believed before that bitcoin was not secure and safe enough, but its blockchain had proved otherwise also with the increasing hashrates generated by miners that is making it stronger. The blockchain is perfect enough, many other investors will be convinced and later will also have no option that to go for bitcoin.

With the wealth distribution in the world and fiat devaluation in long term, bitcoin will follow uptrends, retrace and follow price uptrends again and again in a way there will still be series of all-time-high.

I disagree with you about the first part, because I don't and never have believed that bitcoin is any sort of safe-haven asset, nor will it be anytime soon.  If there was a cryptocurrency that tracked the real value of the USD or whatever fiat currency, i.e., adjusted its value constantly for inflation, then that would be a perfect substitute for gold--in fact, I think there is some kind of financial product that does exactly that (it's in the bond market if I'm not mistaken). 

But bitcoin?  It's volatility alone precludes it from providing safety against inflation or volatility in other markets.  And if it weren't so volatile, none of us would have fallen in love with it.

Gold is always going to be valuable as long as it's rare.  If Elon Musk or somebody else starts mining it on asteroids, just watch how fast the price drops.  Aluminum used to be considered a precious metal a long time ago, way before people figured out how to get it out of the ground and isolate it.  True fact, though it's too late at night for me to go digging for a reference.  Lol.

Yes, that is true, bitcoin price is highly volatile and people still see bitcoin just as a speculative asset due to its high volatility. But how about long term, bitcoin has been performing than fiat. I may need to be corrected about this, I always think other assets are not used to determine if an asset is a stored of value other than comparing it to fiat like USD which are highly depreciative as a result of governmental control, the control that make fiat inflationary.

Although, bitcoin is seen as a speculative asset but I am thinking this will be in short term, that is why some people invested in it, panicked and sold it all because the price reduced few days or few weeks after buying it. Some people can speculate the price, wait for the fall, then buy just to have few or no loss at all immediately after buy and only experience increasing price of bitcoin at the time they invest.

But, yet, people that invested and the price falled, but left their bitcoin holding and never sold it still all gained, after the price retraced, it increased back and reach all-time-high. This is what has been happening ever since bitcoin was created. So this make me to have the conclusion that bitcoin may not be considered as a safe haven in short term, but it may be considered as safe haven in long term as its price in long term is always higher than the price in the past if compared to fiat.

Although, I get you point distinctly, bitcoin should not yet be compared to gold as a safe haven, its price is highly volatile.

I disagree with your disagreement about bitcoin not being a safe haven, but everybody has the right to their own opinion. I'd like to talk about anti-inflationary cryptocurrency - a potential substitute for gold.

Evidently, we cannot create a cryptocurrency that would automatically be adjusting its value for inflation. There are multiple reasons why that won't happen.

First of all, there is no way to correctly estimate the rate of inflation. The consumer price index (CPI) with which to currently measure inflation is not an effective metric. The index takes into account the growth in prices of consumer goods, but it doesn't take into account the changes in the quality of those goods. The real inflation is thus always higher than a calculated one because, as we all know, the quality of consumer goods is getting worse and worse. And don't forget shrinkflation!

Secondly, the inflation rate varies considerably from one country to another. What country should we consider when adjusting the value of our anti-inflationary cryptocurrency? Argentina? Venezuela? The US? Should we create a separate cryptocurrency for each country?

Thirdly, personally, I am not aware of any effective algorithmic mechanisms that would allow a cryptocurrency to automatically adjust to real prices. Maybe, we should use a system of oracles that would be tracking prices but that makes the system too complex and vulnerable to attacks.

It makes perfect sense really, before cryptocurrency existed Gold was a great hedge against inflation because the amount being pulled out of the ground was fairly small and consistent each year. However if the pandemic has taught me anything, it is that for a solo retail investor it was really hard to cash out when all the shops were shut down and I'm not sending lots of gold bullion by post. Right at the moment when I most needed to convert gold to cash, it became almost impossible due to lock downs and I possibly missed out on some stock market gains which is where the cash would have gone instead. Bitcoin is so much more versatile and accessible from anywhere with internet.

I think moving to Bitcoin & abandoning the other should only be necessary to preserve value and continue to function during serious  crisis(esp global crisis) because of the anti-fragile nature of Bitcoin Network/System if it goes through enough stress test or something.
In a normal time when there is less global uncertainty I think Gold can still be used for things like that

This is an amazing news no doubt but what we must be worried about is :
Investors like these exiting at the first profit they make. This is something very important since they value profits and the market more than anything therefore personal concern for the whole crypto market is still due.
If anyone is capable of selling their assets and putting them into bitcoins then they should, this is honestly the right time, there haven't been a wrong time since bitcoins first emerged and at the same time we have seen the value of Bitcoins soaring high every single day.
On January 2021 the price was around 32k and now we are around 67k this is something not only impressive but astounding since all of this growth is during the pandemic. Therefore what are you waiting for ?
This is the right time to invest and the good thing is that the guy got to know before the time is not right. Hopefully with profits and investing the value of cryptocurrencies as a market and a fully functional community would be respected as well. Waiting to see more positive news from every sector.

Someone or some company selling of gold and buying bitcoin does not signify that bitcoin has become a safe heaven asset or better than gold. It entirely depends on the risk appetite of an individual or the company management.

It ia indeed a good news for the bitcoin market as it will boost demand and increase the cash flow in the market. It is great to see that more and more institutional investors are finding bitcoin as an investable asset. From the price perspective it is great and we all are going to be benefitted from it.

People who are into gold investment, and avoided bitcoin in the past will reconsider and might move the funds from gold to bitcoin. In the past volatility was much into discussion when someone is suggested to make an investment on bitcoin. More people have started to move the funds towards bitcoin. I personally had an experience with gold investment.

I suggested my sister to make investment on bitcoin when the price per bitcoin is just $350. She ignored, and now with the entire gold investment she had made till date she won't be able to buy a complete bitcoin in today's price.

I have a good habit of always reading the article before giving my comment, and no one seems to have read the article (at least not to the end). One thing is pretty eye-catching, and I believe a lot of us here wouldn’t agree with that. Of course, we can only interpret his statement from a profit perspective, as the fact is that ETH achieved a rather impressive price from a single-digit figure in early 2017.



You may be right, but then we will need to find some replacement materials as a substitute for gold used in electronics, dentistry, medicine, or aerospace. (https://geology.com/minerals/gold/uses-of-gold.shtml)

Wow, it sounds good to me that there's someone who has been changed their heart and turned back into crypto as an enthusiast.  Let's hope that everyone will do the same as Jefferies did, maybe others will change too especially in the country of China that always keeps spreading FUD news.  This will trigger those who have hated Bitcoin to give allocation percentage on their portfolio when it comes to Bitcoin investment as they can see that there's true profit if you will invest in Bitcoin in a long run.

Pretty sure and I smell that there could be another ATH coming.  Who's next?  It seems the adoption has been grower bigger.

It is a wrong statement or comment to believe that everyone will believe in bitcoin or buy into it but bitcoin is beyond the human adoption or individual, it is not in such level, it adoption is not for just individual. So whether it is Jefferies or Elon musk, bitcoin is for the chase. It is a slogan or regret later.

Digging deeper through the article, and I came across a statement that Wood still has no plans to include Ethereum in his portfolio. The statements (https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/cryptocurrency/the-new-masters-how-auction-houses-are-chasing-crypto-millions/articleshow/87582050.cms) are listed in the weekly notes

IMO, this is like the beginning when he said he would not own Bitcoin and finally he was interested in transferring his finances in Gold to Bitcoin. Well for now, maybe he is not interested in getting into Ethereum, but he doesn't know if he will also be interested in adding Ethereum to his portfolio list. All decisions are subject to change at any time.

This shouldn't be an investment advice because the risk associated with the inflation could be as devastating as the present reward. Jefferies must have gone against his initial phobia for crypto after seeing a new ALHs and buying at this point is a bit riskier than anyother time in the Bitcoin Market because it's either the price surge higher or a devastating drop in price occur

As optimistic for BTC future as this seems, I honestly just see it as serious investors diversifying their portfolio, as they have been doing for decades. I don't think they were ever anti-crypto in general, they were just dormant until things get going, and they are still early to the game. I mean, it's still a positive thing for BTC, but not really that big.

In this case, its just 10% and thats pretty much considered as being speculative instead of being optimistic with bitcoin. We are literally in bullish scenario right now so its not really going to surprise me if some people move 10-30% of their asset from gold / property into bitcoin or cryptocurrency to enjoy some easy profit ( even 'monkey' could make some money trading crypto in bullish scenario )


Apple's CEO Tim Cook said that he owns cryptocurrency as well. Small chances that Apple might be looking on it as well

It seems now Jefferies wants to gamble his money on crypto and he saw the opportunity on it rather than the gold. He is doing it right, and for sure he is aware of the possible risk of investing in bitcoin, and without thinking about it his goal is a safe haven. People are now was understand how bitcoin to make money in the future even if this is a hedge against inflation but people still looking into it and they have the right path I think.

I have a strong doubt that bitcoin will become more bullish this year.

There would be always that tendency on having change of minds or change of hearts when it comes to investment.  :D Cant really blamed them though

and at least they do realize about its true potential and able to mind off on wider scale because not all gold bugs would definitely be changing off their
hearts on their possession but well diversification at its finest would always be the next on line.

Selling an asset to buy another asset makes sense especially if you know about money management. Gold got a much more stable market and the price is usually stable, even if you have the average true range you will understand the range of market price for gold and that's completely obvious for anyone. On the other hand bitcoin, a generally crypto market is much riskier the price movement range or atr is way higher than gold, however in my own idea time after time the market is becoming more stable.

If how to avoid hack and scam have been known and completely avoided, I do not think holding bitcoin is much riskier, but doing with altcoins is riskier. Even holding bitcoin is more convenient and flexible.

Very possible the marketcap of bitcoin will increase to a very greate extent, maybe the market can later be less volatile, but at the time, people will also be look for other more volatile means, but I think upcoming altcoins at the time can provide that though while some will remain shitcoins and some will become dead.

Even as the price of bitcoin is highly volatile, all-time-high will always still be the end result as only few people are still holding bitcoin in the world and as governments will always have no option than to always devalue fiat.

Yeah it make sense to the extent that he can possible increase his profit if he generally hit the best position upon buying but if he join here since he got FOMO on what's happening in the market then maybe this is different story. But I believe that guy is smart and knows how the handle the market stress knowing gold has its own volatility to but hopefully he will not do any bad decision since we know getting afraid with fuds can make our life miserable especially if we do panic selling.

This is a heartwarming news to me personally. I'm tired of saying for years here and there that Gold is a highly overestimated asset. It's price will inevitably start dropping after some negative attitude towards those wearing gold will be expressed in mass media and pop culture. Why? Because Gold is pricey only because people believe it is. Yes, it is used in dentistry and electronics, and it's irreplaceable there, so far. But around 80% of the gold consumed each year is used in the manufacture of jewelry. When most people stop wearing gold its price will drop significantly. When alternatives for usage in  dentistry and electronics invented - the price will drop even further.

Yes, it looks like he is firmly sold on Bitcoin now.. https://www.coindesk.com/business/2021/11/04/jefferies-wood-urges-banks-to-embrace-blockchain-add-more-bitcoin-exposure/

I think this is a perfect example of a balanced portfolio as quoted from him... " His portfolio recommendation currently has 40% gold, 30% Asia (excludingJapan) equities, 20% unhedged gold mining stocks and 10% bitcoin exposure. "

He already made these predictions back in April 2021 --> https://www.timesnownews.com/business-economy/markets/article/top-strategist-chris-wood-bites-the-bullet-on-bitcoins-says-disruption-coming-in-a-decade/741218

That's why it is termed as deflationary asset against rising inflation because if you are holding any other financial assets like gold or any other they will devalue over time as they are mostly pegged to USD or local fiat and we all know fiat is worthless paper and the government's are taking full effort to create hyperinflation with printing more and more notes out of thin air.You could easily check all the currencies and make their past comparison and you will automatically find out that they have been reducing in value reluctantly from long time whereas btc has shown growth at an unexpected rate over these 13 years and now crossed $65k mark so many are shifting the momentum towards it no doubt he is also doing the same and he knows the right option is bitcoin.

Gold was safe heaven in the past but it still is not moving a step and people are living in some kind of delusional world where gold is best option to them.They are just not taking out research about the gold to find out it has not given any return from last 10 years and the little pump in prices shakes off the community like million dollars profit has been poured to the basket.Making comparison of Bitcoin with gold is wrong or calling it digital gold also because it's worth more than that.You needs to deposit your gold bonds and even the real gold in lockers to the central authority and still it's losing value like nothing.As per one image posted by @Ratimov the gold investment of $1000 are worth $996 at the current prices which is insane and still people believe in it? I posted a relevant meme in WO about the same and here it is :

https://i.ibb.co/v3CrtzQ/Screenshot-20211023-200317-01-01.jpg (https://ibb.co/y6mM3sY)

Gold is like holding to the fiat only which is going to be zero with time and those who don't find it right are still living in some kind of government created imaginary world where everything is under control but they don't tell it's under central control and bitcoin is the key to the real world.

Many gold investors in my community are preparing to change their mind to switch to bitcoin investment because of what bitcoin investors are enjoying in the community. When many gold investors were crying about the economy covid-19 virus has collapsed some years ago that was giving bitcoin investors massive earning in the market. Till now bitcoin investors are still smiling with their profits are they are making each day in the market.
Selling your gold to buy bitcoin is a good choice to any investors can do at this season of Profit earning. Many investors are selling gold and other assets to purchase bitcoin since the price just increased to $70k in the market.

I kinda think that gold is not really replaceable atleast not in this century. If we compare the number of people that finally adopt bitcoin and those that are still saving their cash in form of gold, the number of those still believing in gold are still quite high

Even if some big names such as Elon, Tim Cook and some other finally started to use / own bitcoin or cryptocurrency, they actually do have alot more asset saved in gold or bonds. Cryptocurrencies for now is nothing more than speculative asset so as long as it remains as speculative asset, alot more people will keep on sticking with gold

It makes sense to sell gold right now because it has a limited potential. Don't get me wrong I am not saying that it is a bad investment, of course it is a good investment and has been since gold standard has been gone and that is why I understand people who invest into gold. However there is a limit to it, I do not think that it will drop too much and I do not think that it will go up too much neither and you just have to wait for it to handle and just be what it is. That means that we are in a situation where it doesn't make sense to me to invest into it if you really want to create wealth.

It is something that you store your wealth and if you are already rich that means gold will make sure that you stay rich and that's it. Crypto however is something that could make you rich, if you are poor right now it is hard but if you are doing well enough then you could become rich with crypto.

Why people do really find out the probability of replacing gold on upcoming years to come by bitcoin or crypto? Havent they realized on how long gold had been existing for how many millenias?

It isnt really just something that could be replaced in terms of its value by some code being created by man.Im not saying its shit
but why we cant just mind off that both could exist on the same time?

There might be some comparison in terms of value but to think that both are entirely different things.

some people may not agree with the decision but after we see the profit that can be obtained of course it is the right decision
Even if you sacrifice existing assets, in the future you will get doubled

Even Tim Cook is saying that crypto is a crucial part of a well balanced portfolio.

People's fears right now of buying crypto are unwarranted. They have to realize that institutional adoption has already caught up and it would be a matter of time before it is a globally recognized store of value (arguably already is).

Don't treat it as a profit making undertaking but rather a way to store your wealth long term, without being subject to rampant inflation.

For sure, a lot of people are going to choose bitcoin over gold when it comes to choosing their safe haven.
At first a lot of people don’t use to choose cryptocurrency investments because they do not understand how it works, and because of the way things are in the Internet it makes them think that it is a scam, but as time goes on they get to learn about it from friends who are then investing in it and that’s how they will be motivated to start up their own investment as well.

You should expect to see more of the institutional investors and rich investors buying up more Bitcoin as time goes on, because it’s now a very popular asset for them this time around. Cryptocurrency has been a huge trend from last year to this year.