Bitcoin Forum

Since you are on this forum like me and read this, I believe that you value privacy. One first, a basic but very good step that you can take to protect your privacy is to use good and affordable VPN services.

VPN, a short term of Virtual Private Network, works by redirecting your network through a specially configured remote server (VPN Host). This means that your connection is secured and it's not possible to track your movement on the internet.
To make things as easy as ABC, I would say: When you are connected with a VPN, everything that you do, looks like it's been done by the VPN service provider. You exist in shadows.

VPN Advantages:
| 1. Safety and Security	|
| 2. Anonymity	|
| 3. Access any content from any place	|
| 4. Save money on digital services (yeah, really)	|
| 5. Avoid Data/Bandwidth throttling	|

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Types of VPN

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Types of VPN protocols

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Remote Access VPN

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Internet Protocol Security or IPSec

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Site–to–Site VPN

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Layer 2 Tunneling Protocol (L2TP)

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Point–to–Point Tunneling Protocol (PPTP)

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Secure Sockets Layer (SSL) and Transport Layer Security (TLS)

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Open Source VPN

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Secure Shell (SSH)

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P2P VPN

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List of VPN service providers

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VPN Provider

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Pricing Model

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Lowest monthly price

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Lowest price (subscription)

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Locations (countries)

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Dedicated/Statistic IPs

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Mullvad (https://mullvad.net/en/pricing/)

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Pay any $, get exact duration

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€5

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$5

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38

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NO

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iVPN (https://www.ivpn.net/pricing/)

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Weekly/Monthly/Yearly

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$6

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$140 / 3 Years

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32

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NO

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VPN Provider

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Pricing Model

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Lowest monthly price

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Lowest price (subscription)

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Locations (countries)

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Dedicated/Statistic IPs

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ProtonVPN (https://protonvpn.com/pricing)

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Yearly

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Free

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$72 / 2 years

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40-61

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NO

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VPN Provider

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Pricing Model

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Lowest monthly price

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Lowest price (subscription)

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Locations (countries)

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Dedicated/Statistic IPs

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Windscribe (https://windscribe.com/upgrade)

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Monthly/Yearly

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Free/$3

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$69 / Year

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63

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YES

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CyberGhost (https://cyberghostvpn.com/buy/cyberghost-vpn-4)

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Monthly/Yearly

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$12.99

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$67 / 2 Years +2 months

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91

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YES

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ExpressVPN (https://www.expressvpn.com/order)

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Monthly/Yearly

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$12.95

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$140 / 2 Years

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94

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NO

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NordVPN (https://nordvpn.com/pricing/)

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Monthly/Yearly

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$12.99

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$96 / 2 Years

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60

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YES

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Surfshark (https://order.surfshark.com)

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Monthly/Yearly

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€12.95

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$63 / 2 Years + 3 months

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63

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YES

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How to be sure that your VPN is really protecting you?

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While I try to bring you the list of best VPN service providers, you still need to ensure that everything works as planned and promised. Actually, there are three major tests that you can do yourself to be sure that your VPN doesn't leak:

1. IP Leak Test
The purpose of using a VPN is to hide your real IP address. There are moments when connection lost and then gets restored, this is the moment when some VPN providers fail. To avoid this issue, definitely, you should enable the kill switch feature on any VPN.
Simply google (http://google.com): Show my real IP address and run test on any website. If the test shows your VPN address & location instead of the real one, then your IP isn't leaking.

2. DNS Leak Test
DNS is responsible for translating the domain name into an IP address. Your ISP assigns you with a DNS server which they control, so they can log and record your internet usage. When the time comes, they know what you did and what you do.
Usually, users only check IP Leak Test and don't pay attention to the DNS leak test,  sometimes this gives them a false sense of security.
You should run DNS Leak Test to eliminate DNS leakage.
Visit the website for test and further information: DNS leak test (https://www.dnsleaktest.com)

3. WebRTC Leak Test
WebRTC stands for Web Real-Time Communication. This technology gives you the possibility to have fast & smooth voice/video calls in your browser. If you come positive in this step, keep calm, there is nothing to worry about with your VPN service provider because the problem lies in your browser. No, you don't need to uninstall your browser because every top browser uses WebRTC technology but you should disable it. (click for the guide) (https://dataprot.net/guides/webrtc-leak/)
Click for WebRTC Leak Test (https://browserleaks.com/webrtc)

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I'll update this thread with more VPNs for privacy and non-privacy usage but would love to hear an opinion from you guys. From my experience, the current list is a very good one but my personal favourites for privacy are Mullvad and ProtonVPN.

ProtonVPN doesn't accept Bitcoin as payment it seems. I see only Paypal, Visa, Mastercard, and Amex. I wasted my time?

https://i.imgur.com/4SX1kPU.png

Since we're on a cryptocurrency board, I don't see why such providers should be listed. Otherwise, we could start a list of everything to list every shop, even if they have nothing related to crypto. What about making a list of vibrator shops.

edit


I see nothing impolite in my post. Not my problem if you are mentally fragile. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen


OK, so they could at least show it with the other logos I showed in my image
thanks anyway

Man, you are impolite!
If you have any question when you visit a VPN service provider, you can always check their Support page.
In this case, if you weren't rude, you would discover that ProtonVPN has Four Payment Options (https://protonvpn.com/support/payment-options/).
These are:

• Credit card
• PayPal
• Bitcoin
• Cash

You have to sign up at first under the Free plan and then upgrade your plan from Dashboard to pay with Bitcoin.

Accepts. I personally pay for my subscription in bitcoin.

https://i.imgur.com/GFz6U8K.png

I think it is important to remember that some VPNs offer "privacy", but you will need to trust them to give you said privacy. For example, if a VPN claims to not keep logs, you need to trust they actually don't keep logs.

Also, regarding using a VPN for streaming, many streaming services will block IPs associated with data centers, especially services that offer content based on geo-location. If this is why someone is going to buy a VPN service, it would probably be best to purchase a one-month plan (or the shortest plan available) to make sure they can actually access the streaming service via that VPN.

Nord VPN https://nordvpn.com/ also offers cryptocurrency payments. There are three to choose from: Bitcoin, Ethereum and Ripple.

In my opinion, it is one of the best VPNs and I will rather not change it, but I would like to know how it looks compared to other services in 2021.

I use Mullvad and I love it, no complaints here! Connection is always fast and secure

Small correction: the price model isn't really monthly. You can literally pay any amount and get the exact duration you paid for.
Until they accept LN, I use BCH for Mullvad. It's accepted with zero confirmations (Bitcoin needs one confirmation).

Great idea to make list of VPN providers. But your list is incomplete. There is some popular providers which accept BTC for payment is missing. I can suggest to add few:
ExpressVPN https://www.expressvpn.com/
PureVPN https://www.purevpn.com/order

Agree about NordVPN. I was surprised that it wasn't listed in OP.

Good point, streaming services like Netflix don't like VPN's at all, and they're activelly blocking it. Unfortunately, monthly plans cost very expensive  compared with yearly ones.

I think that any VPN service provider found here[1] can be added to the list (most were already mentioned). What is specially good about these providers is that not only they accept BTC/crypto as a payment but also they don't use BitPay a.k.a "anti-Bitcoin service"[2] as their payment processor (which is awesome). As a vouch I can only recommend either IVPN and Mullvad since those were the only ones that I've used. Mullvad has a higher advantage regarding privacy because they simply assign you a random number to be your account instead of asking you for your e-mail ...

Note: This post shares similar information with this[3] post of mine, but I think that the information shouldn't be missed even though the threads approach the same nature of discussion.

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[1]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5367983.msg58370560#msg58370560 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5367983.msg58370560#msg58370560)
[2]https://debitpay.directory/anti-bitcoin/ (https://debitpay.directory/anti-bitcoin/)
[3]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5367983.msg58370560#msg58370560 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5367983.msg58370560#msg58370560)

Was that an expression of politeness? If yes, then what about making a list of dildo shops? LeGaulois Approved ✔

You are right, companies have to earn trust in this business because promises mean nothing if they aren't backed by the facts. The nature of trust in this business is pretty similar to bitcoin mixers.

Thanks for correction  :) I'll update that column with: Monthly and Custom.

Yeah, that list is incomplete and I really want to make community based list of VPN service providers. At the moment, this list is created from personal experience with dozens of VPN providers.
I didn't include the Express VPN purposely. They have gone down in quality and I am not a fan of Kape Technologies. If anyone thinks that they are trustworthy, then I am open for discussion, it's very important for us to have a list of privacy-oriented VPNs.

I don't use ExpressVPN, so I had no idea that they went down in quality and they're not privacy-oriented provider.
How about CyberghostVPN or PrivateInternetAccess?

As it was mentioned they do accept bitcoin but I wanted to add that the bitcoin payment is different, it won't show up if you aren't logged in. They basically need you to already have an account with Proton team like the proton email and then you have to log into that account to see the bitcoin payment option in your account. Here is the details: https://protonvpn.com/support/vpn-bitcoin-payments/

I use Windscribe since a few months ago. It's quite ok. Keep in mind that the lowest price is not exactly $1, but $2, with an extra dollar for unlimited data. Sometimes the speed is terrible (I bought the Singapore IP) but it doesn't last that long, it is also possible that my network is the issue so this will need more test. Not the most privacy focused one but good enough if you just need something cheap.

According to this article (https://restoreprivacy.com/kape-technologies-owns-expressvpn-cyberghost-pia-zenmate-vpn-review-sites/ (https://restoreprivacy.com/kape-technologies-owns-expressvpn-cyberghost-pia-zenmate-vpn-review-sites/)), Kape now owns all of them. I would recommend you to choose different VPN.

I'm unsure what to think of Kape Technologies. They were, in the past, known as Crossrider[1] and a simple google search regarding their previous name leads you to numerous malware reports related to Crossrider - MalwareBytes even mentioned that in 2018[2]. A very recent report that I've just found - responsible to shift my perspective of the company - was this one[3] where there was an investigation regarding the claims made by other security labs and, if the report is correct, it turns out that Crossrider wasn't involved in the malware distribution, bad agents only took advantage of the platform that Crossride developed to spread malware (I do recommend users reading that article since it goes more in detail regarding this issue). Still, by the recent purchase that the company made it seems quite eager to grab a hold on numerous VPN services, I wonder why that particular focus? Let's all remember that they are a public traded company[4] and those are driven by profits... I wouldn't be comfortable knowing that at the end of the day my VPN provider is under the grasp of some company like that.

Regarding ExpressVPN - I never liked them. Here's an article[...] of which I'll highlight a relevant sentence:

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[1]https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-crossrider-renamed-kape-after-switching-to-cybersecurity-1001227178 (https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-crossrider-renamed-kape-after-switching-to-cybersecurity-1001227178)
[2]https://blog.malwarebytes.com/threat-analysis/2018/04/new-crossrider-variant-installs-configuration-profiles-on-macs/ (https://blog.malwarebytes.com/threat-analysis/2018/04/new-crossrider-variant-installs-configuration-profiles-on-macs/)
[3]https://restoreprivacy.com/kape-technologies-crossrider-malware/ (https://restoreprivacy.com/kape-technologies-crossrider-malware/)
[4]https://www.londonstockexchange.com/stock/KAPE/kape-technologies-plc/company-page (https://www.londonstockexchange.com/stock/KAPE/kape-technologies-plc/company-page)
[5]https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/expressvpn-cio-among-three-facing-1-6-million-doj-fine-project-raven/ (https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/expressvpn-cio-among-three-facing-1-6-million-doj-fine-project-raven/)

Avoid Kape and avoid every company they own.

Whether or not they were personally responsible for infecting their users with malware and invading their privacy with ad injectors and trackers, or whether they only provided the tools to do so to other individuals, is more or less irrelevant. They were in the business of spying on users, collecting their data, and monetizing it, the exact opposite of what you want from a VPN company. Their CEO even admitted the name change was to distance themselves from their prior activities. They bought VPN review sites and then changed the rankings to promote their own services.

Go and look at the Privacy Policies of some of their other VPNs. They are absolutely atrocious.

CyberGhost - https://www.cyberghostvpn.com/en_US/privacypolicy
When registering they want your name, address, and email address, and will store your IP address alongside that. They then go on to collect all kinds of information, including "data relating to the browser you are using, mobile/desktop device, general properties and metadata, OS version, preferred language, the date and time of your visit, battery charge, screen resolution, Google Advertising ID, Gyro-sensor data, screen size, Connectivity (WLAN), Mobile service provider". Tell me exactly why my VPN provider needs to know how much battery I have left or who my mobile service provider is? And then of course, "we may communicate your Personal Data to a member of our group of companies (this means our subsidiaries, our ultimate holding company, KAPE TECHNOLOGIES PLC, and all its subsidiaries)" and "with 3rd part suppliers for the purposes of optimization of our Website and Services as well customer analytics and fraud prevention (e.g.VWO, Appsflyer, Google etc)." Because you definitely want your VPN provider sharing your information with Google of all companies for the sake of "customer analysis".

ZenMate's looks pretty much the same, except they also use tracking pixels, with the data again being handed over to Google for "customer analysis".

PIA is the same. "We may disclose collected Personal Data to necessary members in our group of companies (across our ultimate holding company and all its subsidiaries)".

Remember that Kape's subsidiaries include companies like https://www.webselenese.com, which is designed to "Connect consumers with brands". In other words, a marketing agency. Who has access to all your VPN data, if they want it.

We are not exactly starved for choice when it comes to VPN providers. When there are dozens of better ones out there, why would anyone ever settle for one of the worst?

Avoid Kape.

My first attempt to use a VPN I had an ugly experience with NordVPN (https://nordvpn.com/servers/)
It was not Nord's fault but mine. I was very amateur in cybersecurity issues.
I downloaded the NordVPN from a shared link on social media instead of their website or playstore.
They altered the domain name with hyphen(-). I didn't know, I completed the registration. Immediately some popups begin to display in my phone. I knew I was being spyed. I searched for the file source to uninstall but I couldn't find it.
I was swift to reset my phone even when my backup was not upto date. I lost data but I was safe from attack.
After the loss, I re-examined the url and notice it has a security encryption https: but it was still malicious.
But I am using the NordVPN now but not always.
I wish someone would create a topic on how to beat the cyber criminals, they are upgrading everyday.

Https says nothing about the authenticity of the person, website, or software you are dealing with. You should use https everywhere as it encrypts your data and protects against man in the middle attacks and protects against your communications being spied upon. Be aware, though, that that is all it does. It doesn't matter if your communication channel with a scam website is encrypted with https - you are still connecting to a scam website, and you can still download malicious software over the https connection.

Making sure you only download software from the official website or github repository is pretty basic stuff. When possible, you should also verify your download against the PGP keys of the developers or against provided hashes. Unfortunately this is not possible with NordVPN as it is with some other VPNs.

Tip 1

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During the VPN session, don't use Russian servers if anonymity is your priority because Roskomnadzor has high control on them.

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Tip 2

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Russia's firewall doesn't work well and compared to the Chinese firewall, it's very weak. Websites are blocked by ISPs and you can still access blocked websites by using the VPN that has servers in other countries.
The list of VPNs on this thread will help Russian people to get out of the information vacuum and check blocked news websites.

Good tips, man. I just want to add few words about it. It's good suggestion about privacy - don't use Russian VPN servers for privacy reasons. From what I saw, quite many VPN providers don't even have servers in Russia, probably because of reason that you mentioned.
About 2nd tip. There is problem that Russia started to block VPN providers websites. So, it might be an issue to subscribe VPN for Russian people if they haven't done it yet. And since Visa and MC isn't working, Bitcoin is one of few ramining alternatives to pay for VPN.

I've been using ExpressVPN for a couple of years now and so far I haven't had any issues with them whatsoever. My subscription ends in 2 weeks and I see here that some people raised legit concerns regarding them and privacy they provide so now I am looking at the competition and seriously thinking about getting something else.

Since one of the things I use VPN for are streaming services (Netflix and Amazon mainly), are there any VPNs on the market (other than ExpressVPN which I know works very good for this) that can handle 4k streaming without issues, with high amount of available servers that consistently work for streaming sites?

There aren't many VPN which simultaneously offer decent privacy and high speed for streaming. AFAIK only ProtonVPN offer both. I only used free version though with slow home internet connection, so i don't know if it can handle 4K streaming.

I know many people from China also use VPN for accessing many website services and it works just fine, so ''great'' firewall is not that great afteral.

I think that Mullvad is the best VPN you can buy anonymously with cryptocurrencies, but they are certainly not the cheapest available option.
If you have Coingecko account with collected candies you can use their code and get a nice discount for Surfshark VPN with 24 Months + Free 3 Months, or 18% off on NordVPN.
You can also try Windscribe or Proton free versions but for anything serious you will need to pay pro version.
 

Yeah I know, it's much harder than it looks, to find something that ticks both of those boxes. Before settling with ExpressVPN few years ago I tried few other that were supposed to be very good (like NordVPN and ProtonVPN) but all of them had some issues when it comes to streaming services. Either it was speed, Netflix reliability (NordVPN) or low amount of servers that work with Netflix (ProtonVPN) or not working with Amazon at all.


I am looking at their website now and it seems that they improved a lot compared to the last time I checked (iirc it was 2019). I see that they have wider selection of servers now and  since 1 month of their "Plus" package costs only $10 I will definitely give it a go.


I will give it a go if ProtonVPN turns out not to be good for my needs, and it seems like its even cheaper than the one I am using at the moment.


Not really interested in free versions as from my experience free VPN versions are good for only the most basic browsing purposes and nothing else and I have no issues paying something 5-10 USD per month if it means it will work hassle free and without any restrictions. You know the saying, "if something is free, you're the product".

Don't they use residential VPNs for that? I would assume they block any known VPN IP address in their "great firewall".
I remember the days when I ran an open proxy. Without advertising it (it was meant for myself only), it got many Chinese users.

It's the cheapest one I've seen if you don't need it continuously. You can literally pay for an hour, and create a new account when you need it again. I just tested it: €0.01 got me 1 hour and 38 minutes of full speed VPN.

Proton also have the free version, but both Proton and Windscribe free versions are very limited in number of locations, speed and traffic.
Paid version unlocks all locations and they provide unlimited traffic and speed, but for any vpn I would look to avoid jurisdiction of five, nine and 14 eyes countries.

I don't know what exact kind of vpn they use but I know they are using it for accessing twitter, youtube and other websites.
They have their own alternative cloned versions, so I would not be surprised if they have chinese version of bitcointalk forum  :D

Yeah, I was talking about plans that include one or more years, some vpn's even have special lifetime plan deals sometimes.
Getting some deal like that for Mullvad vpn would be great.

Somehow I never trust "lifetime plans". Let's call it experience ;)
I think Mullvad if honest in their pricing (https://mullvad.net/en/pricing/):
You can get a lifetime plan though: say you plan to live 50 more years, that cost you 0.07 Bitcoin ;)

Agree. I wouldn't trust a lifetime plan on anything, but especially not for something like a VPN which operates in a constantly changing ecosystem with constant new technological developments, protocols, regulations, laws, and so on. I had a friend who had just splashed out on a 3 year plan on Private Internet Access about two weeks before they were bought over by Kape. Couldn't get her money back, so just had to eat the loss and pay for another subscription with a different provider. Being bought out is only one risk to consider. What if the provider goes bankrupt, is shutdown, leaks data, complies with data requests, changes their privacy policy, etc., and you are locked in to a lifetime contract?

And there is the principle of it to consider as well. Once you've paid for a lifetime contract, then the VPN provider has less incentive to provide you with a good service to keep you as a customer. It's like all the early access video games we see which just cease development and collapse after raking in a few tens of millions of dollars in pre-sales.

Why would you trust any plan for that matter? :)
I am taking everything with a bit of suspicion and I know everything can collapse at any moment, so I won't fall in depression that easy.
Even the most trusted vpn service could be selling your data to government without you knowledge and claim they have ''zero log policy''.
Most lifetime plans I saw for vpn are not really lifetime and you need to to some free action after few years to renew it.

This could happen with any business, you could sign a contract with bank, take a credit for apartment, and it can all fall apart.
It's not like you would paid huge amounts of money for vpn, that you would need to cry later or call for lawyers after that :)

Lifetime deals are only temporary, for limited time and for closed circle of people, so we are not talking about millions of customers per se ;)

For my use, free version of either of those is completely useless. As I said before, I am not a fan of "free" stuff as more often than not they end up being more costly (usually wasting my time, and time is money) than those I paid for. So yeah, gonna test ProtonVPN "Plus" plan which fits my needs.

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Regarding all this lifetime/long term subscription thing, I generally avoid the former (I don't remember taking lifetime plan for anything) but I have nothing against 1 year sub. I don't take those right from the start though as first few months I like to test the service and if it proves to be reliable, I switch to yearly sub simply because I don't want to think about it every month. And as @dkbit98 said, it's not like I am risking thousands of dollars but 100, tops. I did the same thing with ExpressVPN, and will do with ProtonVPN as well if it proves to be as good as people claim it is.

I can't agree with ProntonVPN's Terms (https://protonvpn.com/terms-and-conditions):
So they don't log anything, but they restrict freedom of speech by telling me I can't tell you you're a dick? I'm insulted by the fact that they think insults have to be regulated.

On the one hand they say this (https://protonvpn.com/terms-and-conditions):
But on the other hand they say this (https://protonvpn.com/):
So which one is it? If a shady government bans something that threatens them, that means an activist won't be allowed to use ProtonVPN to promote overthrowing that government.

It sounds like the standard disclaimer that anyone just dismisses and clicks "ok" on. In my opinion, a VPN is one of those services where you should not dismiss terms you don't agree with.
All the more reason I won't use any of those VPNs. There's literally nothing like it in Mullvad's Terms (https://mullvad.net/en/help/terms-service/).

You know those terms looks fine on paper but they can be changed at any time, especially when we know that Mullvad is based in Sweden, and that is one of the 14 Eyes countries.
It's not like we didn't see terms being changed recently or played around them, like for example with Proton mail that many forum members here praised multiple times.
Mullvad vpn is good but I wouldn't trust any vpn including Mullvad for anything serious.

I don't know (never tested it).

For Mullvad, I've never tried 4k streaming either. But it maxes out my internet connection when I'm downloading.
For streaming, I can imagine the server location matters a lot, and ideally the VPN server should be in between your location and the streaming server.

Exactly. I knew that it will be hard to find VPN provider that can tick all of my boxes and that some compromises will have to be made. Tbh, If I was doing something extremely risky, I don't think I would trust any of the  VPNs that are mentioned here, no matter what they say about not keeping logs etc as all of those things can change easily.

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So, I took 1 month of Mullvad today to give it a go and I must say that I like it a lot, even though I won't use it for streaming. You can really tell that is privacy-oriented VPN.

First of all, registration is very simply and straightforward; you get 16 digit code that is your only login info. No emails, no confirmations and no hassle. I used BTC for payment of course and what I like is that you get 10% discount compared to other means of payment (to be precise they offer 10%  discount for BCH as well) so it's nice to see that they encourage people to use crypto. I tried various servers, from EU countries to NA and Asia and speed was generally very good, between 50-60 Mbps which is more than enough for comfortable 4k HDR streaming/torrenting.

Regarding streaming sites, I was surprised to see that Netflix actually works as I Googled it a bit and people said that Mullvad is generally not very good for that. So, I managed to access US, Australian, Japanese and few others without any issues. Unfortunately, Amazon didn't work at all, no matter the server I chose so for me it's not an option. Even though I won't use it for streaming purposes, I think that I will extend my sub and continue using it on my PC and mobile phone as as primary VPN since I really like how privacy oriented it is and find something else that I will use for TV only where I watch majority of stuff,

After Mullvad, I was about to get 1 month ProtonVPN sub, hoping that will be my go-to streaming option. Since they boast to have servers in 63 countries I kinda assumed that one certain country will be among those, but for some reason it isn't which is a deal-breaker for me as for some streaming reasons I need server in that country.

The search goes on. Or I will just use 2 different VPNs from now on, Mullvad + something else.

Mullvad is probably one of the best privacy focused VPN's that I've used in the past. In fact, it was the only one - that I'm aware - that earned the excellence badge from the deceased thatoneprivacysite.net[1]. Sadly the website is no longer the same as it has been sold to SafetyDetectives - which is owned by Kape Technologies[2] - by the guy that created it[3]. If you want to look for the spreadsheet that was maintained by the site owner, someone over at GitHub managed to scrap (most) of it[4]. As it stands today, I can no longer recommend thatoneprivacysite.net/SafetyDetectives as a beacon of light to identify good VPN companies.

If you are able to, I would also recommend that you check out IVPN[5]. I know it has been discussed in this thread but I've also used them in the past and I enjoyed them as much as Mullvad. They've also got WireGuard implemented which is nice. Recently they've also been supporting Ukrainian refugees with free IVPN accounts[6] - as well to Russian oppressed population - which even though doesn't make them more "privacy" oriented, they could've just continued their operations as normal and do nothing to help with the current crisis.

While they don't have trial accounts, they do offer an "affordable one week trial plan" or you can just use their 30-day money-back guarantee rule if you're not satisfied with the service[7].

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[1]https://web.archive.org/web/20200204212321/https://thatoneprivacysite.net/blog/mullvad-review/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20200204212321/https://thatoneprivacysite.net/blog/mullvad-review/)
[2]https://restoreprivacy.com/vpn-review-websites-owned-by-vpns/ (https://restoreprivacy.com/vpn-review-websites-owned-by-vpns/)
[3]https://web.archive.org/web/20201201214426/https://www.safetydetectives.com/blog/announcement-tops/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20201201214426/https://www.safetydetectives.com/blog/announcement-tops/)
[4]https://github.com/BitWrecker/Archived-VPN-Comparison-Spreadsheet (https://github.com/BitWrecker/Archived-VPN-Comparison-Spreadsheet)
[5]https://www.ivpn.net/ (https://www.ivpn.net/)
[6]https://www.ivpn.net/blog/in-support-of-ukraine (https://www.ivpn.net/blog/in-support-of-ukraine)
[7]https://www.ivpn.net/knowledgebase/billing/does-ivpn-offer-a-free-trial/ (https://www.ivpn.net/knowledgebase/billing/does-ivpn-offer-a-free-trial/)

For now I will give Mullvad a go, as looking at IVPN server status (https://www.ivpn.net/status/) they have even less countries supported than Mullvad, and only half of what ProtonVPN has so I doubt it would be good choice for me, especially for streaming.

It's not hard at all to find VPN that does one or two things very good, but to find one that does everything good seems impossible. I might try NordVPN again even though I wasn't really satisfied with their reliability at all few years ago but maybe they improved in the meantime, or suck it up and use ProtonVPN even though they miss one country on their list that is important to me. It really sucks that ExpressVPN is by far the best one when it comes to streaming purposes but that one is not an option anymore.

What is your normal internet speed without using any VPN?
50-60 Mbps is not bad but it could be better especially if your normal speed is much higher than that, but it all depends from country you choose, latency, percentage of use for specific location and other factors.
I saw that windscribe is offering location that are specialized servers used for streaming and netflix, there are four of them in Canada, United States, United Kingdom and Japan.
Only thing is that you can use this locations only if you have pro account I think, but I can't confirm that because I never tried how it works.
I wanted to try Surfshark that looks decent and they son't have any bandwidth limits or restrictions.

I have 200/200. Fiber connection, so very low ping.


True, it could be better, but since those speeds are more than enough for 4k HDR streaming (afaik 25-30 Mbps is enough) I am fine with it. Also, keep in mind that those were the speeds for US/Australia/Japan servers which are very far away from me.


Since Netlfix works good with Mullvad on all those servers that you mentioned (and many more), there's really no point for me testing that one as well. While you can find several VPNs that work good with Netflix, problems start when you want to get one that will work with several others streaming sites. Beside Netflix, I use Amazon, Apple+ and HBO Max and to find VPN that works reliably for all of those while having wide selection of server is very hard. Well, there's one, but it has it's own issues.


Let me know if you check that one!

Understandable Rikafip, I'm sure you'll be very pleased! I don't know if you've noticed but Mullvad also offers the option for someone to pay with cash[1], which I found also interesting:

---

So far the only service/website that actively blocked my Mullvad servers (and that also blocks IVPN ones) were gambling websites (specifically bet365.com). Not that I gamble - which I don't - but some friends of mine were looking for VPN's that allowed them to play in such houses and asked me to try it out with bad results. So if you're looking into those kind of options as well Rikafip I advice you to double check before jumping in as well.

If you do intend to make a longer trial period of Mullvad, let us know how it goes! My VPN subscription is about to end and I may finally return to Mullvad :)

---

[1]https://mullvad.net/en/pricing/ (https://mullvad.net/en/pricing/)

I've recently transfered large amounts of data between servers, and geographical distance matters a lot. If it's relatively close, I've seen 90 MB/s (almost the full 1000 Gbit/s), but if it's further away, it drops to around 7 MB/s.
You can probably determine if the VPN is the bottleneck by opening many connections (Torrent): if that reaches the maximum of your internet connection, the VPN can handle it.

Yep, I saw it and I don't remember seeing that somewhere else and it's nice to see that even people who don't want to pay with crypto (or simply don't have it) can still keep their anonymity. Kudos to Mullvad, not many services would bother with that at this day and age.


I tested it today and it seems like bet365 still blocks all Mullvad servers I tried to use, while some others like Sportsbet (which is banned in the country I am currently living in) works without any issues whatsoever. Either way, that's not an issue for me as as I am kinda old school guy and bet online only if I really have to.


I know, and it was the reason why I tested speed with servers that were at the max distance for me, like Australia, New Zealand and West Coast of the United States. If those servers can handle 4k streaming (and they could) then those in Europe which I occasionally use should be even better. And they were when I tested them today.

Try checking settings in your VPN application and see if there is option to switch from UDP or TCP to faster IKEv2.
This should make everything work much faster, almost like your are not using any vpn.

Geographical location is most important thing but latency can sometimes be better in countries that are further away, maybe it depends on the quality of the servers and traffic they have at that moment.
It's good idea to check download and upload speed manually after selecting new vpn location, there are some dedicated websites for this purpose.

Maybe you placed some bet on OSCAR awards that are starting soon?  :D

Mullvad is a great choice for Cheap Anonimity and it's the only VPN I know that allows anonymous cash payments.
Some websites block VPNs but in order to unlock them, you need a dedicated IP but it has one negative side, dedicated IP belongs exclusively to you and probably 1-2 other users and your privacy can be easily violated if requested.

But if you only want to play on bet365 that shouldn't be a big issue.

Your option is to use a VPN with dedicated IP. The first one privacy-focused and the next three non-privacy focused providers offer you this benefit: Windscribe, Surfshark, CyberGhost & NordVPN.

Windscribe
1. Visit Windscribe (https://windscribe.com/upgrade) and either choose Monthly Plan, Yearly Plan or Build A Plan.
The cheapest option is Build A Plan. You choose one favourite Location for $1 and unlimited unlimited data for another $1, totally = $2 a month.

2. Let's acquire Statistic IP. Click here (https://windscribe.com/staticips) to visit the page and then choose Datacenter - $24 / Year or Residential - $96 / Year connection. Residential avoids all blocking but probably in your case Datacenter will be enough too.

SurfShark
1. Visit SurfShark (https://order.surfshark.com) and choose any plan you wish. It doesn't offer dedicated IPs but offers Static Servers. Connect to the Static Server and your IP will stay the same on every session.

CyberGhost
1. Visit CyberGhost (http://www.cyberghostvpn.com/buy/cyberghost-vpn-4), choose any plan you wish and during the checkout include Dedicated IP in your cart.

NordVPN
1. Visit this Guide (https://support.nordvpn.com/General-info/Features/1091993372/How-to-purchase-a-Dedicated-IP-address.htm) and follow the instructions.

Doesn't a dedicated IP dethrones the usage of VPN? I might be saying something stupid but, to my eyes, if you have a dedicated IP attached to your VPN, how is that better than having a shared IP amongst many users that use the same service? I know that for some services you probably have to turn off VPN / split tunnel (like banks for example) but for anything else I would choose shared IP against a dedicated one, at least in what concerns to anonymity. Am I wrong? Windscribe seems to share my view since they state the following regarding "dedicated IPs":

VPNs aren't only used for hiding ;) A dedicated IP makes it easier to identify the same person is visiting the same website again. But if you want to gain access to something that isn't available to your own location (for instance to bet365 or Netflix), they'll know you use the same account anyway.

Nord have just bought over SufShark, so they are now owned by the same company. The same company that got hacked, tried to cover it up, and then only admitted it to their users months later when they were exposed.

CyberGhost are owned by Kape, and should be avoided at all costs: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5372131.msg58547859#msg58547859

Windscribe are still largely closed source.

Depends on why you are using a VPN. A VPN will never provide anonymity, as you suggest. A dedicated IP is certainly worse than a shared IP in terms of privacy, though, since all your traffic can be linked together via that IP rather than "lost in the crowd" of different shared IPs.

You're correct, I do know for a fact that certain services only accept the usage of VPN considering the fact that you share with them a dedicated IP. Otherwise they won't allow the usage of VPN (using shared IP's).
Sorry, I misused the words - indeed a VPN doesn't offer anonymity (specially considering if you pay with fiat / direct from your bank account). What it does provide is privacy mostly related to what your ISP sees regarding your activity. Even so, I consider it a must in these days since I'm sure ISP make their best to sell whatever data they are able to extract from us...

Hmmm thanks for this info.
I didn't know that connection between Nord and SurfShark, and I just wanted to test and see how SurfShark is working :/

I think that windscribe desktop application v2 and browser extension are open source, and you can use login credentials with open vpn.
Do you by any chance have any list of open source vpn providers, I would love to check it out?
Last time I checked I think Mullvad and ProtonVPN claimed they are open source.

Correct, but their mobile apps and router software are still closed source. I'm also not very confident in their security practices: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/vpn-servers-seized-by-ukrainian-authorities-werent-encrypted/. TL;DR, they did not encrypt some of their servers, and stored unencrypted private keys on these servers.

I don't I'm afraid, and I don't think such a list would be helpful, since there is far more that needs to be considering when picking a VPN than just if it appears on a list of open source ones. Doesn't matter if the VPN is open source if it collects all your data.

Yeah, I have even mention that before. Since your quoted my last post, I assume I forgot to edit the text.
It's correct now: The first one privacy-focused and the next three non-privacy-focused providers offer you this benefit: Windscribe, Surfshark, CyberGhost & NordVPN.

I also updated thread two days ago and added NordVPN and SurfShark because not all people are prioritizing privacy and some people simply want to unlock netflix and other platforms. But to make things clear, I put Non-Privacy Focused Mainstream VPNs title on them.

Oh, didn't know that news. If NordVPN bought SurfShark, then sure I'll move SurfShark into a non-privacy-focused VPNs list.

Today I was browsing one forum and accidentally noticed this website:
https://www.bitcoin-vpn.com/
It's huge list of VPN providers with Bitcoin and other crypto payment option, currently there 83 websites listed. I have never saw such big list of VPN services. There is also information which payment proccessor they're using. Offcourse, I can't vouch for every service listed there, but I think it's worth to check it out.

I wasn't aware that he is on Bitcointalk, thanks. Great stuff, I already bookmarked both his websites on my browser.

what are the reasons for the price difference with the same VPN? what are the difference in services as well?
Can we have names of VPN available for USA residents and for IOS phone?

That's usually the length of your subscription. You usually get a discount if you pay for a year instead of every month. Or the difference can be a dedicated IP, more servers worldwide so more IPs to be behind, more devices to use the VPN, and stuff like that...

I have never seen a VPN not available for US residents so I would say all of them. If there is any not accepting the USA, a hand is probably enough to count them

For an app on IOS, I guess it's up to you to visit the service, we can't always put the spoon in your mouth

I would suggest you to check Mullvad (https://mullvad.net/en/download/ios/). Price is reasonable ($5 per month), it has good amount of available servers and speed is also very good. The best thing about it is that is very privacy oriented (probably the best one in that regard I tried so far) so if that is high on your priority list you should definitely check it out. And yeah it has iOS app, I tried it on iPad.

Thank you for mentioning my website, really worked hard to make this list :)  I will take care to check all listed providers again soon. Hope it helps to others to find their best provider.

I can list hundreds of VPN service providers that accept Bitcoin and cryptocurrency payments but that's not my goal. I prefer quality over quantity.
What's more comfortable for you, a list of 100 VPN service providers where 90% are garbage and you struggle with which one to choose or a list of trusted and quality 10 VPN service providers where you can choose either one without regret?

The aim of my thread is to create a great list, the most trustworthy list. I'll be more than happy if people discuss VPN service providers and share their own experiences. I'm glad for these people who posted: RickDeckard's post, (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5372131.msg58540833#msg58540833) o_e_l_e_o's post, (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5372131.msg58547859#msg58547859) LoyceV's post, (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5372131.msg59605959#msg59605959) Rikafip's post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5372131.msg59620087#msg59620087). There were some other good posts posted by them.

Bitcoin-vpn
I'm glad if my thread inspired you.

Yeah, I am thinking how I can improve my list, as a list A-Z of many providers is not a best idea.
One of ideas - make a 10 best providers ( most trustworthy, reliable, etc )  shortlist and than a list of all other providers. I still want to give a possibility to find all providers, which accepts Crypto.

I updated the thread with a new guide for you.

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How to be sure that your VPN is really protecting you?

---

While I try to bring you the list of best VPN service providers, you still need to ensure that everything works as planned and promised. Actually, there are three major tests that you can do yourself to be sure that your VPN doesn't leak:

1. IP Leak Test
The purpose of using a VPN is to hide your real IP address. There are moments when connection lost and then gets restored, this is the moment when some VPN providers fail. To avoid this issue, definitely, you should enable the kill switch feature on any VPN.
Simply google (http://google.com): Show my real IP address and run test on any website. If the test shows your VPN address & location instead of the real one, then your IP isn't leaking.

2. DNS Leak Test
DNS is responsible for translating the domain name into an IP address. Your ISP assigns you with a DNS server which they control, so they can log and record your internet usage. When the time comes, they know what you did and what you do.
Usually, users only check IP Leak Test and don't pay attention to the DNS leak test,  sometimes this gives them a false sense of security.
You should run DNS Leak Test to eliminate DNS leakage.
Visit the website for test and further information: DNS leak test (https://www.dnsleaktest.com)

3. WebRTC Leak Test
WebRTC stands for Web Real-Time Communication. This technology gives you the possibility to have fast & smooth voice/video calls in your browser. If you come positive in this step, keep calm, there is nothing to worry about with your VPN service provider because the problem lies in your browser. No, you don't need to uninstall your browser because every top browser uses WebRTC technology but you should disable it. (click for the guide) (https://dataprot.net/guides/webrtc-leak/)
Click for WebRTC Leak Test (https://browserleaks.com/webrtc)

Good call. I was ExpressVPN user for a couple of years (it was mainly for the streaming purposes) until I stumbled upon this topic, that made me look at them from a different angle. I switched to Mullvad soon after, and I must say that I am very satisfied with it.

Mullvad does have a tremendous focus on protecting their users identity and information that they have about them. This is their latest blog entry[1] regarding ending support for cryptocurrency refunds:
I've been keeping tabs on this company for a while and I honestly can't say bad things about them (so far). I'm really looking forward for their upcoming products from their hardware company[2] in the upcoming months. Their first product - Tillitis Key (competitor to a Yubico key) - is already very promising (both software and hardware are open source!)!

PS: If you want to increase even further your privacy you can use this store[3] to buy Mullvad vouchers through either BTC or XMR, which you can then redeem in their website.

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[1] https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2022/12/1/ending-support-for-cryptocurrency-refunds/ (https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2022/12/1/ending-support-for-cryptocurrency-refunds/)
[2] https://www.tillitis.se/ (https://www.tillitis.se/)
[3] https://digitalgoods.proxysto.re/ (https://digitalgoods.proxysto.re/)

For everyone who plans to use Windscribe's Chrome Extension.

I don't know if that problem exists only for me but Windscribe's Chrome Extension for Opera browser gets automatically disabled on my pc. Sometimes, when I open Opera browser, extension is automatically unconnected and removed from Opera extension bar, l mean the area left to URL bar where you can pin extensions. So, I have to go into Opera settings -> extensions and manually enable extension and connect to Windscribe.
So, there is a chance that Windscribe extension will close automatically and if you have left some website tabs opened into browser, you may leak your IP. Definitely, no one wants to get such an unexpected surprise. That's why I am warning you, be careful!

I'm not one of its users, but IIRC, it used to have a bug in its auto-connect feature that despite being connected, it kept showing it was disconnected ^{[perhaps it's back]}... Have you tried checking your IP address whenever this happens?

You might want to try reinstalling the extension and while you're at it, make sure you're using the latest version of Opera.

If you can't predict when this happens, it sounds like you shouldn't use it at all. I always enable Mullvad's kill switch (now called lockdown mode), which prevents this.

And, I'm not using them, especially extensions, I'm just testing some VPNs and their extensions, additional softwares, etc for long-term, for weeks. That's why I posted here that since it happened to me on Opera browser, there is a good chance that other Opera users will experience this unpleasant situation.
Btw the problem is not in kill-switch but in the fact that extension somehow gets disabled without any reason. Maybe it happens because you have to install Windscribe extension from Chrome Extensions and not from Opera Addons, I don't know actually but it happens.

Good and affordable VPN services mean - fast and cheap. From your list I only see one VPN, which is free and fast - no identifying log Windscribe VPN. But from your link is not possible to find exact free Windscribe VPN plan, which is here - https://windscribe.com/features/use-for-free (https://windscribe.com/features/use-for-free) - 10GB per month data, 10 countries. From fee based VPN on your list is not possible to say, which is better, even with table view - also monthly prices are the same.
Plus, why to pay if you can get VPN for free. Just some free VPN - www.privadovpn.com (http://www.privadovpn.com), Switzerland, no log, 10GB per month data, 12 countries, https://www.vpnbook.com/ (https://www.vpnbook.com/), Switzerland, connection logs are automatically deleted every week, no limit for data, 3 countries.
 

AFAICS, they've "only" been partially audited, and I'm not sure by which firm: Has Windscribe been audited? (https://windscribe.com/knowledge-base/articles/has-windscribe-been-audited)

There's a saying that "if something is free, you’re the product (https://www.quora.com/Who-originally-suggested-that-if-youre-not-paying-for-the-product-you-are-the-product)"!

AFAIK, none of these two have been audited by a reputable auditing firm... In other words, you should take everything they say with a grain of salt!

• A good example of a VPN provider that cares about its users is NordVPN ^{[for what it's worth, I'm no longer one of its users]}: NordVPN verifies no-logs statement for the third time (https://nordvpn.com/blog/nordvpn-no-logs-audit-2022/)

In table I underlined that this vpn is free and min price starts from 2$ a month. I took my link from Pricing page. When you click on Pricing on windscribe's website, you get the exact link that I put in table. I think this was right thing to do because that page also lists countries that are included in Free plan. Also, when you register, as far as I can recall, you have choice to choose either free plan or paid one or build your own plan.

If I say that this VPN is the best from privacy, it means I'm taking the responsibility on myself which I'm not because this is not my business. I filtered and provided a list of VPNs that are good. Which one to trust, it's something that you have to do your own deep research and decide yourself.
Also, I don't control prices, so, if monthly prices are the same, that's because this is open market and market regulates the prices, supply & demand.

Why will someone offer VPN and privacy for free? Think about it. Not every free VPN offers privacy, they log your data and sell it, that's how they generate profit.

How can you say that on a company that got hacked and didn't admit it till someone published their private key on twitter. Company that acts like that, doesn't care about your privacy but about its financial success.

It appears that the minimum price is $3 now ^{[at least three pro locations]}: Screenshot (https://i.imgur.com/Ol2rnBR.jpg)
^{- BTW, their yearly plan is $69 at the moment.}

Surprisingly, I didn't know about that incident even though I was one of their users at the time ^[SMH]... Personally, I have mixed feelings about the route they took after knowing that one of the servers that they were renting has been breached ^{[attacker got an expired TLS key]}, but when I look at the whole picture ^{[e.g. no log]}, perhaps it's not as bad as it sounds: Why the NordVPN network is safe after a third-party provider breach (https://nordvpn.com/blog/official-response-datacenter-breach)

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@LoyceV (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5372131.msg58483360#msg58483360)
I've been using Mullvad for the past few months, but I still can't find a way to add more credit using the dust or rather small amounts that I have in some of my addresses ^{[I'm a bit confused if I should still use the one-time generated payment address for it or I should do something else]}!
^{- Based on the current situation of the network, it might look like a bad idea, but I'm just going to use free accelerators with them.}

The "one-time payment address" is the only option they offer. I've never tested what happens if you create a few of them, and they confirm in random order.
For future use: don't get any dust in your wallet. Just send all small change to Mullvad directly instead of going to your wallet first.

Thanks, I updated prices of every listed VPN. Seems, there is on average 8% increase in monthly prices but noticeable changes in yearly plans and prices.

Depends, for some people it can be a concern, for some people it's okay or doesn't even matter. For me, and I think for many people, it's a concern. When VPN company claims that it's transparent and honest and lies and only admits when it has no other choice, doesn't look like a trustworthy companion.

Also, if I were you, I wouldn't trust any audits done for VPN companies. No company choose audit company that publishes negative result for them. They choose those independent companies that publish what VPN providers want. Word Audit is just a marketing term in their case, no one should assume that these statements or audit companies are actually true and honest.

I'm sorry for asking this @LoyceV but is this achievable by selecting the option "Coin Control"? I imagine that what you're saying is that if a user already knows that his address balance will be left with a small amount of Bitcoin at the moment of the transaction he/she should instruct for the change to be delivered directly to Mullvad address?

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Speaking of Mullvad, while this isn't related to a VPN it does still involve Mullvad - they've just launched their browser in partnership with TOR Project[1][2]. I'm tempted to try it out as I really like Mullvad as a company and I think that they are one of the few VPN's providers that are really fighting for their users and for what is right. I'll highly @o_e_l_e_o as well as I believe he'll be interested in knowing about another privacy option as a browser. According to the news being shared on TOR website[1] the main difference between the TOR browser and Mullvad one is the following:

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[1]https://blog.torproject.org/releasing-mullvad-browser/ (https://blog.torproject.org/releasing-mullvad-browser/)
[2]https://mullvad.net/en/browser (https://mullvad.net/en/browser)

Depends on your wallet. If you are using Electrum, for example, then you can use the "pay to many" option and put Mullvad's deposit address with a ! symbol instead of an amount. This will send everything left over from your transaction to Mullvad instead of to a change address. Obviously be careful using this so you don't accidentally send a whole bitcoin to Mullvad or something silly like that (unless of course you want to buy a 500 year subscription :P).

I had no idea they were launching a browser, so thanks for this! I'll definitely check it out. Based only on what you've quoted though, I'd be wary of using it immediately - a "hide in the crowd" approach only works when there is a crowd to hide in. It will initially have a very small user base until more people learn about it and start using it, so better to stick to Tor or Firefox for now.

For privacy (and optimal transaction fees), you should always use Coin Control. Without coin control, I wouldn't just send large change to Mullvad.

Correct. Or something else than Mullvad.

Allow me to quote them:
This is bad! Tor literally stands for "The onion router", and the main feature is that no single party other than yourself knows all data. Mullvad now recreated the browser fingerprinting features, but that's not the main part of Tor.

Thank you both for the tip! I'll try to explore the "pay to many" option in my next transaction and "Coin Control". Is there any difference between the two of them?
As for the subscription, I can't say that a 500 year subscription wouldn't be nice to have in order to pass down from generation to generation, but I think that I'll prefer to avoid accidentally spending such an amount :).

I understand your point of view o_e_l_e_o and I'll also give it a few weeks before trying it out. As far as the valid issue pointed out by LoyceV and yourself, I did a little bit of digging within some forums and Reddit and here's[1] an interesting information:
I was hoping for a bit more but that won't stop me from testing out the browser at least and create an opinion of my own. The 50 searches per day doesn't strike me since I don't believe I'm not nearly close to that number per day, but some users may find it quite a small number. Nevertheless it's great to see more private options as far as browsers are concerned (even thought it may be a stripped version of TOR).

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[1]https://libreddit.spike.codes/r/mullvadvpn/comments/12afncj/mullvad_vpn_and_the_tor_project_team_up_to/jersmgd/ (https://libreddit.spike.codes/r/mullvadvpn/comments/12afncj/mullvad_vpn_and_the_tor_project_team_up_to/jersmgd/)

Please fix your quote.

Coin Control is on the input-side, pay-to-many is about outputs.

Don't get me wrong: getting rid of browser fingerprinting has it's perks, they just shouldn't compare it to Tor. That's a whole different level.
It may cause other problems too: if users have the exact same browser fingerprint and use VPN, online casinos can think someone is using multiple accounts.

Coin control means specifically picking the inputs you want to use (or not use) for each transaction, rather than letting your wallet decide for you. This means deliberately taking care to avoid linking specific UTXOs in the same transaction to protect your privacy.
Pay to many on the other hand is exactly what it means - an option that allows you to specify multiple outputs in a transaction rather than just one. You can manipulate this feature as I described above to redirect any change to somewhere else.

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In terms of the browser, looking in to it a bit more it is obviously not being designed to replace Tor or compete directly with Tor. Rather it has been designed to compete with other non-Tor browsers. Obviously Tor is the gold standard for privacy, but for all those people who will never use Tor due to speed, breaking various websites, or other issues, then this Mullvad browser looks like a good option rather than using some spyware like Google Chrome.

I think I'll probably stick to my multiple very hardened Firefox set ups and forks, but having more privacy focused browsers such as DDG and Mullvad on the market is never a bad thing.

I messed the edit while trying to reply to both of you. Thank you for letting me know, I've fixed it.

Thank you both for the explanation, it is clear for me now. While reading the definition of "coin control" I thought that it would be a great idea to use the feature to gather all the small inputs that one has in an address and send them all to a single address and it seems that I wasn't wrong considering your thread[2] about dust LoyceV. I'll try it out as soon as possible.

At the end of the day I think that they also don't intend to compete with Tor but instead proved another solution for someone who doesn't want to use DDG or Tor browser (whatever their reasons are). The blog post[2] within Tor also supports our opinion in a way:
I imagine that Mullvad customers will at least try out this new product of the company and probably will end up being a large % of their userbase, but only the future will tell.

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[1]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2848987.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2848987.0)
[2]https://blog.torproject.org/releasing-mullvad-browser/ (https://blog.torproject.org/releasing-mullvad-browser/)

If you have multiple dust outputs on the same address, then yes, this is fine and you lose nothing by consolidating all these outputs in to one larger output.

If however you have multiple dust outputs across multiple addresses, then by consolidating them all together in a single transaction you link all these addresses under common ownership, and therefore you link all the transactions which created those dust outputs together as well. You may have reasons that you do not want to link those transactions together as all belonging to the same person.

---

I don't really understand the "50 Google searches a day" thing. There are better search engines out there than Google, but if you are desperate for Google results, then you can either use Startpage or SearX configured to return only Google results. Both of these options are free and unlimited.

Agreed. So they should adjust their marketing a bit, and focus more on the fingerprinting than on the Tor part. Even better if they focus on tracking too.

It mostly depends on the current transaction fee. I have a 1 sat/vbyte transaction that's unconfirmed for more than a month now. I'm not in a hurry, so that's fine.

I wouldn't even feel comfortable in using coin control for the second option at all, but some feedback that I got in some other forums and Reddit did in fact show that some users do not care about it, as long as they have their funds consolidated in one address instead of many. I guess this goes to show that, once again, we are a minority regarding the privacy of our coins and actions within the blockchain. Most of the current users that got a hold of bitcoin in the past years are probably investors/average john does that jumped into the ship waiting for it to reach high tides and aren't really interested in what they gave away by buying bitcoin in centralized exchanges.

As for me I'll keep my eyes open from now on to use this option and method of operation. Thank you for enlightening me.

PS: Have you checked out the parent company of Mullvad - Amagicom AB - new product? It's called Tillitis[1] and both the hardware and software will be open source.

From that perspective you're right - I got no rush in consolidating them as of now so I could just push the transaction with a low fee and whenever it happens, it happens.

---

I also can't wrap my head around this one. This is perhaps a stupid question but would it make sense to put a limitation to each user to avoid being blocked by Google API due to a large number of requests if the browser ends up being massively used?

---

[1]https://www.tillitis.se/ (https://www.tillitis.se/)

I've been using paid Proton VPN for a few weeks (before I used Avast, paid, and others free) and I must say that proton is 1000 times better.
It is true that I am not a computer scientist with high expectations, but the stability of the proton VPNs is really excellent and suitable for continuous use even for less experienced people like me.
Proton come with also 15 emails included, and we're not talking about gmail or Libero Mail (Italian provider that never works!  ::)) but we talk about a service created from CERN in Geneva!

I feel comfortable in recommending the use of proton VPN  :)

@o_e_l_e_o: While browsing around Mullvad Browser GitHub page[1] I've found an interesting debate regarding the differences between Mullvad Browser and arkenfox or even Librewolf[2]. In the mist of the debate Thorin-Oakenpants, the owner of arkenfox[3] who ended up working with other privacy related projects as well. According to his vision, the main differences between AF/LW vs Mullvad Browser are the following:
At the end he even goes to say that he'll use MB as a third daily driver (his other two are FF portable stable with AF + nightly). He seems to be supportive of the "hide in the crow" model adopted by Mullvad, albeit the same concern regarding crow size was also addressed by him. Either way, I believe this was a great step in providing another option to browse the web more safely - I guess that we'll see what they achieve in 1 year from now...

---

[1]https://github.com/mullvad/mullvad-browser (https://github.com/mullvad/mullvad-browser)
[2]https://github.com/mullvad/mullvad-browser/issues/1 (https://github.com/mullvad/mullvad-browser/issues/1)
[3]https://github.com/arkenfox/user.js (https://github.com/arkenfox/user.js)

So is this basically saying that Arkenfox is just a firefox build with "Do not save history and cookies" settings turned on? If that's the case then there isn't really much of an argument for using it in the first place. And even while Mulvad's browser/VPN, which you can also get with Mozilla's VPN service, is convenient - I mean who doesn't like free stuff? - I am definitely in the Proton camp here, as far as censorship resistance goes.

While other countries can easily crack down on most VPN providers, I can use Stealth Protocol and bypass all of these (except for China (https://protonvpn.com/support/does-protonvpn-work-in-china/), but then you can use Shadowsocks for that). Regardless, for everything else, Proton works smoothly for me - recently the country I'm in decided it would be a great idea to block Youtube, and apparently the internet operator forgot to turn off the blocking switch, so I have exported OpenVPN profiles of all proton servers and imported them to all of our computers, and it works like a charm. :)

Discussion about browsers in this thread proves again that we need Cyber Security board!

---

I don't understand why should someone block Youtube, there is nothing wrong with this platform. I would say, it's very censored and you won't see adult or violent content, the risks are minimum. There is no discussion about religion too, to my mind it's the least platform someone should ban.

---

ProtonVPN's obfuscated servers are good but latency can be a problem, especially when it comes down to video streaming.
By the way, Chinese use Shadowsocks, V2Ray, Xray, Trojan, VLESS & gRPC to bypass firewall.

Alternatively, you can also use Tor Bridges, this will allow you to bypass restrictions and at the same time it will hide your Tor usage for your ISP.

It's almost unfair comparison :D (whether free or paid version of Avast) since IMO their product in general is crappy[1-2] and they also have poor privacy history[3-4]. Comparing with general/speed-oriented VPN service (such as nordvpn) would be more fair.


Slightly off-topic, but very recently i found out Proton bought SimpleLogin[5] which is service to create email alias[6]. Basically it's intermediary between sender and your email address. Since you already have paid version of Proton, you also get paid version of SimpleLogin and IMO it's worth checking out.

[1] https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/avast-antivirus-corrupted-my-windows-10/5004788c-e51c-410c-8dfd-90d32702a323 (https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/avast-antivirus-corrupted-my-windows-10/5004788c-e51c-410c-8dfd-90d32702a323)
[2] https://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=117057.0 (https://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=117057.0)
[3] https://www.cnet.com/news/privacy/antivirus-firm-avast-is-reportedly-selling-users-web-browsing-data/ (https://www.cnet.com/news/privacy/antivirus-firm-avast-is-reportedly-selling-users-web-browsing-data/)
[4] https://www.tomsguide.com/news/avast-avg-data-collection (https://www.tomsguide.com/news/avast-avg-data-collection)
[5] https://proton.me/blog/proton-and-simplelogin-join-forces (https://proton.me/blog/proton-and-simplelogin-join-forces)
[6] https://simplelogin.io/ (https://simplelogin.io/)

Privacy wise, as of now, it is very hard to compete with Proton has. With a single subscription you get access to a great range of products - e-mail, VPN, calendar and drive - whose mantra is focused on yourself and being private. The SimpleLogin features is also a great addition to the family of products that they have - and honestly it seems aligned with the nature of their concept. As always there are also users that observe this "centralization" of services and prefer to have their services spread between companies to avoid being centralized in one, but I guess this kind of debate and opinions will always exist.

Do note that if you aren't a Proton paid subscriber you can still access to a limited offer from SimpleLogin as a free customer, which mostly focuses on 10 aliases and 1 mailbox[1].

---

[1]https://simplelogin.io/pricing/ (https://simplelogin.io/pricing/)

I used Free Proton VPN on my phone, but I don't know if happen to someone here, because I always get disconnected after I change the browser, for example from Chrome to Firefox. I know that, because I always check whatismyipaddress before open something in bookmark and that show my real IP (Indonesia), not an outside country I choose (Japan and Netherland)

About damn time.


It was part of a general blockade of social media services being used by protesters and government critics (i.e. "the usual reason").

I've heard somewhere that every serious person using Telegram has a VPN and (ideally) a disposable phone number. Crazy.


This will be very helpful to anyone who needs help overcoming internet restrictions, and it is also amazing to know that there's more tech out ther than just SOCKS4/5 and OpenVPN/WireGuard!


Sometimes the VPN is disconnected if you lock your phone, depending on which OS you're running.

Most phones will have a setting in them somewhere which allows you to either set the VPN to "Always On" so it does not disconnect, or to automatically block all traffic if the VPN is disconnected so you can't accidentally connect to somewhere without it.

I think it will be very interesting if we have a discussion about VPNs that have actually proven to have zero-log policy. And in actually proven words I mean court cases where FBI has demanded logs from company and company hasn't provided them.

Actually, the first VPN that comes to my mind and will be added in the VPN list, is PIA - Private Internet Access.

• First court case: In 2016 one man allegedly made bomb threats while he was connected to PIA Vpn Ip. The FBI officially subpoenaed PIA to provideuser logs but they didn't provide, simply because they had no logs. [source¹] (http://www.scribd.com/doc/303226103/Fake-bomb-threat-arrest)
• Second court case: In 2018, John Arsenault, the lawyer for Private Internet Access, told the court that PIA doesn't save user logs and are unable to provide any useful information in response to a subpoena. [source²] (https://www.almanacnews.com/news/2018/06/02/alleged-hacker-claimed-he-was-paid-to-attack-news-site-witness-says)

But the problem is that in 2019, Kape Technologies acquired Private Internet Access. If you don't know why is it a problem, then you have to check this article: What is Kape Technologies? (https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/what-is-kape-technologies-what-you-need-to-know-about-the-parent-company-of-cyberghost-vpn/)
Long story short, Kape Technologies, before 2018 called Crossrider, was actively engaging in shady behaviors, including hijacking users' browsers via malware injection. In 2018, Crossrider changed its name to Kape Technologies and as they say, they moved from infecting users to improving their cybersecurity, which is a lie, I hope we all agree with.
Kape Technologies own:

• CyberGhost VPN
• Zenmate VPN
• Private Internet Access (PIA)
• ExpressVPN

Why do they need four different VPN companies? They don't care about privacy, they care about money and money, more, more money.

---

So, since PIA is now owned by Kape Technologies, if I were you, I wouldn't trust PIA because of their excellent past. Since 2019, they are owned by Kape!

It's impossible to "prove a negative".

That still doesn't prove they're not keeping logs now. Here are a few possibilities:
1. They kept logs, and lied about it in court.
2. They made a deal: they denied having logs to save their business, and shared the logs anyway.
3. They didn't keep logs back then, but they're keeping logs now.

Besides being impossible to prove that the mantra "No logs are kept" is true, there's also the nuance about the interpretation that each VPN provider has regarding "No logs are kept" - Does it really doesn't log any kind of information regarding the usage of their service & users? Or does it log the IP that is used to access the service? Take, for instance, the case of PureVPN who also claims[1] that it doesn't keep logs but, at least in 2017, it was reported that PureVPN helped the FBI in a cyber stalking case[2]. Turns out that, according to a statement by PureVPN, the IP that was used to access their service was kept[3]:
While we will never be able to confirm or audit if these companies don't keep log - in any form - the good news is that once someone finds out that their mantra is being violated by the company themselves, the word quickly goes around and for sure their reputation is tainted. After that you're the only one to blame if you still trust in the service or not.

---

[1]https://www.purevpn.com/why-purevpn (https://www.purevpn.com/why-purevpn)
[2]https://thehackernews.com/2017/10/no-logs-vpn-service-security_8.html (https://thehackernews.com/2017/10/no-logs-vpn-service-security_8.html)
[3]https://torrentfreak.com/purevpn-explains-how-it-helped-the-fbi-catch-a-cyberstalker-171016/ (https://torrentfreak.com/purevpn-explains-how-it-helped-the-fbi-catch-a-cyberstalker-171016/)

That's impossible to actually prove but at least we have facts in front of our face and I think that past is an indicator of future, especially in this case when PIA wasn't able to provide logs on every court case.
By the way, that deal part is possible to happen as it's possible to happen that they will start to keep logs but I think it's a little beneficial to include some interesting stories in this thread.

That was a list of very good articles. I think, there should be mentioned in this thread that the definition of some VPN's anti-log policy is that they won't log your activities but they will log the IP addresses that customers use to access the VPN. There is no point to use such VPN, it looks like to wear a transparent mask in public and lie to yourself that no one sees your actual face.

The problem is that it is very hard to pinpoint exactly the interpretation that each VPN provider has regarding "No logs policy". Eventually we get to know the interpretation of each company when a case such as the one in my previous post is reported. If you go today to PureVPN privacy policy[1] you'll see that they refer that they don't collect your origin IP, which totally happened in the previous report[2]. WBM has many snapshots of the privacy policy of PureVPN and in 2016 they stated that[3]:
Out of curiosity I've checked the same page in 2018 - after the alleged colaboration with the FBI happened[2] - and the previous definition is somewhat different:
They casually removed the part that they told you they kept the IP given to the user and the part that "The time you connected to any of our servers and disconnected is counted as a session,(...)" was also edited. All in all this just screams shady behaviour and I surely wouldn't touch PureVPN even with a stick.

---

@o_e_l_e_o - In a totally different realm of VPN providers, here is an interesting take on the guys behind Mullvad that I found while browsing Reddit[1]:
Albeit we should take this with a grain of salt, I would definitely feel a bit better knowing that the guys who are behind Mullvad have such high standards of security in real life...

---

[1]https://www.purevpn.com/privacy-policy.php (https://www.purevpn.com/privacy-policy.php)
[2]https://torrentfreak.com/purevpn-explains-how-it-helped-the-fbi-catch-a-cyberstalker-171016/ (https://torrentfreak.com/purevpn-explains-how-it-helped-the-fbi-catch-a-cyberstalker-171016/)
[3]https://web.archive.org/web/20160108132127/https://www.purevpn.com/privacy-policy.php (https://web.archive.org/web/20160108132127/https://www.purevpn.com/privacy-policy.php)
[4]https://web.archive.org/web/20180121070615/https://www.purevpn.com/privacy-policy.php (https://web.archive.org/web/20180121070615/https://www.purevpn.com/privacy-policy.php)
[5]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31005767 (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31005767)

I posted about Kape and PIA a few years ago in this very thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5372131.msg58547859#msg58547859
I just went back to check if that clause in their Privacy Policy about sharing your data still exists, and it does. In addition, I also found that they use BitPay to process bitcoin payments. The same BitPay renowned for requiring KYC from their customers and their terrible privacy practices.  ::)

So yeah, I wouldn't go anywhere near PIA or anything else owned by Kape.

Thanks to TryNinja[1] post in the Portuguese board, I was just informed that Mullvad recently suffered a search warrant from the Swedish polish in their offices[2]:
In line with Mullvad foundation philosophy, being transparent regarding such events is always good for any company - especially an event that resulted in supporting their privacy policies. Will be interesting to see what the case files say about this warrant (if they ever get released) since it would also validate Mullvad claims.

---

[1]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5418378.msg62123343#msg62123343 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5418378.msg62123343#msg62123343)
[2]https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/4/20/mullvad-vpn-was-subject-to-a-search-warrant-customer-data-not-compromised/ (https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/4/20/mullvad-vpn-was-subject-to-a-search-warrant-customer-data-not-compromised/)

Mullvad's blog is something one should constantly check because not only this but they usually post other helpful and important information.
By the way, regarding to VPNs, the fact that no one talks about Russian VPN service providers, confuses me. Literally, there is a war between Russia and West, so, logically, if one uses Russian VPN company, based on Russia, there is almost zero chance that the USA will gete any info from those VPN providers. Also, Russians are very pro-piracy, they manage the biggest torrent websites, they crack games, softwares, upload movies, etc and recently even Putin or one Russian political said that people are welcome to pirate western content.
I think, if we imagine that every VPN provider keeps logs, definitely the USA/Europe can demand data from companies that operate in western countries but I bet there is a very slight chance they'll get any data from Russia-based companies that operate from Russia.

I prefer a VPN with a good image, reliable service and fast uncensored internet connection. Russians can't even reach Bitcointalk without VPN (outside Russia).

And it seems that my hope was heard as Mullvad just received a reply from the Swedish authorities[1] regarding their recent search. Here's the full - translated - text:
As for the reasons of the search, it seems that it was related with a blackmail made in Germany somewhere in 2021:
I highly advise anyone interested in knowing more about the case to read the blog entry from Mullvad. I have never seen such a high degree of transparency and effort to show how committed they are with their work and product and this goes to show that you really can't go wrong by using their service.

---

[1]https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/5/2/update-the-swedish-authorities-answered-our-protocol-request/ (https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/5/2/update-the-swedish-authorities-answered-our-protocol-request/)

It may be an useful for people to use Trials before they actually purchase the service, so, I found out that some VPN providers from the list offer free trials for Google Pay and Apple Pay users.
CyberGhost - 1-day free trial on PC, | 3-day free trial for Android and 7-day free trial for iOS users.
ExpressVPN - 7-day free trial for Android and iOS users via Google Pay and Apple Pay.
NordVPN - 7-day free trial for Android and iOS users via Google Pay and Apple Pay.
SurfShark - 7-day free trial for Android and iOS users via Google Pay and Apple Pay.

When you subscribe to 7-day free trial, don't forget to unsubscribe them before they charge you.
Also, I hope you understand that company that uses BitPay or Coinbase to process crypto transactions, doesn't care about its privacy and won't care even more about your privacy too.

90% of VPNs are sketchy and don't care about your privacy whether you pay them in crypto or not. Most trials are not worth the privacy compromise, and should not even be called Virtual Private Networks.

Besides, what is the point of having a third party deanonymize you with Chainalysis if they can just collect your logs instead?

[At the risk of sounding like a shill for Proton, at least they don't engage in that crappy behavior. Neither does Mullvad, AFAIK.]

That's why you see only limited number of VPNs in this thread and those VPNs that offer trials have always been under Non-Privacy Focused Mainstream VPNs hood.
By the way, trials are a good way to measure VPNs speed and latency on different server locations and if one uses this just for testing, I don't think his privacy is compromised.
Some may want VPN for streaming, some may want it for gambling, that's why I included them, ExpressVPN, Cyberghost and some others are very popular for that purpose.

I'd rather discourage them, especially after you've mentioned many times that those VPN companies with trials available are being owned by such a shady company. I think that reason alone is enough to stay away from them regardless of your activity on the network when you're connected to their service. I'd rather be paranoid if the company I'm dealing with is proven to never cares about my privacy. Not to mention most paid VPNs offer a money-back guarantee for at least a month.

And there is a news out there from Mullvad: Introducing Mullvad Leta: a search engine used in the Mullvad Browser (https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/6/20/introducing-mullvad-leta-a-search-engine-used-in-the-mullvad-browser/), but the problem is that it's only available for Mullvad users and isn't public.

---

To be honest, I would prefer if Mullvad spent more money into increasing server speeds, adding more locations and improving overall performance instead of paying this money to Google for using their search engine because we have duckduckgo too and other alternatives. They are just reinventing the wheel by offering Mullvad web browser and Leta search engine and I see no point into it.

Looking for VPN recently and found windscribe from this list, not as popular as surfshark or nord but its reliable. However tho, many people has mentioned about this thread correlation with Bitcoin and Crypto since its a bitcoin forum, so my advice, and it will be much appreciated if you add some details for the payment method, maybe just a yes/now which vpn accept crypto and which aren't. Anyway thank you for the list.

While it's a bit of old news, I think it's still important to post this information here - As of 2023-07-01, Mullvad has removed the support for forwarded ports[1]. While this is not a deal breaker for some (or most of their clients) I think it's important to highlight considering that it has some uses for people that are a bit more tech savy.

---

Both Mullvad[2] and IVPN[3] (which I can vouch for since I've used them both) support payments by means of cryptocurrency. Mullvad offers 10% discount when paying with cryptocurrencies as well. You can also browse kycnot.me[4] to see which more VPN services support that kind of payment.

---

[1]https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/5/29/removing-the-support-for-forwarded-ports/ (https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/5/29/removing-the-support-for-forwarded-ports/)
[2]https://mullvad.net/en/pricing (https://mullvad.net/en/pricing)
[3]https://www.ivpn.net/pricing/ (https://www.ivpn.net/pricing/)
[4]https://kycnot.me/services (https://kycnot.me/services)

That's like saying it's a problem Mullvad's VPN is only available for subscribers. That's normal for businesses.

Did you experience server speed problems? I usually get the maximum my internet connection can handle.
They have 669 servers in 43 countries (https://mullvad.net/en/servers). I haven't tried most of them, and I can't think of a reason why I'd need more locations.

I like Google's search results better, but not it's privacy. So this could be a good solution.

Those tech savy people can setup a cheap VPS with OpenVPN and port forwarding.

Absolutely every VPN provider that's listed in this thread, accepts Bitcoin or altcoin payments. Btw it's still not a bad idea. To be honest, as you can see, I rarely have left any space on table for anything but I think I'll figure it out if people wish so.

Of course that's normal for a business but I didn't directly meant that it's a problem, you know. I hope you understand in what way I said that (Like, I've got the protein powder but the problem is that I don't have my shaker with me - actually, there is no real problem but the situation is uncomfortable).

Yes, if you want anything beyond web browsing (for example, streaming), Mullvad VPN isn't that good. Overall, I get the best speed from iVPN.
Sometimes countries like Australia and Japan give you early access to the content because of their time zone. Btw I just saw that they have New Zealand but these countries would be a good addition too, why not? Also, more servers mean better connection for everyone. If person lives in Indonesia, he will benefit from Australian or Indonesian server.

What you're saying is basically setting up a personal VPN with a dedicated IP, or am I wrong? And if that's the case, wouldn't it kinda defeat the purpose of having a VPN since we would be getting a dedicated IP that could be linked to ourselves considering the fact that no more users would be using that same IP? Or were you just referring to the use case of circumventing the limitations imposed by Mullvad regarding port forwarding?

First they created Mullvad browser that is based on Tor browser, and now they introduced new search engine.
I think this is a good idea but it's far from being used as a standard search engine, it only gives text result without images, news and other stuff, and that is very limited.
One more thing I don't like is that Leta search  is just using the same g00gle Search API.  :P

Talking about centralization and bias censored results in search engines:

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2023/06/21/HFNHm.jpeg
https://www.searchenginemap.com/

I guess we have a totally different use case. I don't use streaming, and I wouldn't care about a few hours earlier access. I have no idea how fast internet to and from Australia is, it's a remote country and submarine cables are expensive. I usually use servers a bit closer to my location for best results.

It depends on what you're trying to accomplish. If you want a static IP in a certain location, a cheap VPS could work very well. Even better if it uses NAT and shares it's IPv4 with many other users. I've seen bundles for multiple cheap servers in different locations for this purpose.
Any adversary will only see your server's IP, and without access to the webhost, won't know your real location. But long-term, if an adversary gains access, you're no longer anonymous. At least with random IPs from a standard VPN provider all traces are (or at least "should be") gone the moment you disconnect.

I don't know why people tend to think that VPNs are really good for streaming purposes. Putting the speed aside, in my experience (of other VPNs), trying 5-10 different locations never really helped me gain access to region-locked Netflix titles (it was different back in the day). So I think the streaming services are catching up with this trend and "neutering" the VPN's IP address.

If you want to watch something region-restricted in your country, your options are: 1 - buy it, 2 - rent it for a few days, 3 - piracy.


OpenVPN is a PITA to set up, instructions are too long and complicated. Shadowsocks servers are easier to set up.

Then you can use Startpage (https://www.startpage.com/) or SearXNG (https://docs.searxng.org/) for free to return Google's results to you privately.

Not bad, it works instantly without annoying captcha on Tor browser.

The About Us (https://www.startpage.com/en/about-us/?t=light) isn't very convincing though:
Privacy laws in the Netherlands look good on paper, but many companies and government branches violate privacy laws.

We don't have a totally different use case, I rarely use VPN for streaming but for music, it's true. Servers that are located near you, usually perform well on every VPN provider but the servers that are located far, for example, the USA servers, were slow on Mullvad but on iVPN, I get a very good performance.
If Mullvad performs well for you, then great, it's one of the greatest VPN out there.

No, VPNs help you to watch region-locked Netflix & Prime Video titles and even more. Here you can see this page of ExpressVPN: https://www.expressvpn.com/vpn-service
To be honest, the VPNs included in Non-Privacy Focused Mainstream VPNs are popular because of streaming, I doubt anyone uses them for privacy. Also, sometimes people use it for gaming too.

Imagine, I live in Bulgaria, watch a lot of animes and movies but some of them, like OG naruto and some netflix/prime/hulu tv shows aren't available in my country. It's better to buy a VPN than to buy or rent titles. Piracy is always possible but I think that's very disrespectful.

Would you trust it if there was written Sweden instead of Netherlands?

Also check out their anonymous view (https://www.startpage.com/en/anonymous-view/) feature.

Their privacy policy (https://www.startpage.com/en/privacy-policy) says everything you would want it to say though. No logging of IPs, no logging of search queries.

Still, if you still don't like using a third party, then set up your own instance of SearXNG.

They are offering refunds: https://www.reddit.com/r/mullvadvpn/comments/13utbmd/removing_the_support_for_forwarded_ports_blog/jm6j7aa/

From what I've seen, privacy laws are okay there, but I've never been there and I have no idea if they're actually enforcing it.
Note that I have no reason not to trust Startpage, and I'll only use Startpage.com through Tor without sharing any personal information. It's just great that it works without captcha. Cloudflare alone makes more and more websites completely impossible to use through Tor nowadays.

I won't go that far.

You'll get one eventually: https://support.startpage.com/hc/en-us/articles/4521350590996-Why-am-I-receiving-a-CAPTCHA-verification-page-

Occasionally solving the captcha doesn't work for me, but switching to a new Tor circuit does.

Heads up - As it was expected, IVPN has now followed the lead and will be gradually removing the port forwarding feature from their Pro plan[1]:
This decision was also motivated by the fact that they got a big influx of users after Mullvad decision and some of those users that were abusing the service in Mullvad probably went on to IVPN to continue their behaviour. They are also issuing a refund on a pro rata basis if this change deeply affects their clients usage of the service[2].

---

[1]https://www.ivpn.net/blog/gradual-removal-of-port-forwarding (https://www.ivpn.net/blog/gradual-removal-of-port-forwarding)
[2]https://safereddit.com/r/IVPN/comments/13uun18/comment/jm6fo23/ (https://safereddit.com/r/IVPN/comments/13uun18/comment/jm6fo23/)

Thanks for regularly updating this thread with some news. And I really, really like the style of your posts.

---

For those who are lost in vain and don't understand what port forwarding is, calm down, nothing changes for you if you don't set up Plex Media Server, haven't been seeding torrents or if you don't set up virtual private network at your home to access it from a remote location.
Port forwarding bypasses the NAT firewall and allows external sources to access your device easily. It improves your internet speed and increases download time but it comes with the cost and the price is security because open ports, if not constantly occupied, make it easier for hackers to successfully attack you.

Most of the time, port forwarding is very useful in P2P file sharing. To directly answer your question, when you seed torrents, people who want to download from you have to access your torrent files through an open port on your network. As Mullvad and IVPN say, they removed port forwarding because some users were using it for hosting and sharing of illegal materials.
This is just an excuse to remove port forwarding features, an excuse similar to why you are asked to upload KYC documents on centralized exchanges.

If you are more interested in Port Forwarding, you can check some good articles:
Port forwarding: What it is and how to set it up (https://nordvpn.com/blog/port-forwarding/) - This article is focused on why you shouldn't use port forwarding.
VPN Port Forwarding (https://surfshark.com/blog/vpn-port-forwarding) - Neutral article.
What is NAT Firewall (https://nordvpn.com/blog/what-is-nat-firewall/).
Supercharge peer-to-peer speeds with port forwarding (https://protonvpn.com/blog/port-forwarding/).

Thank you for your words and description regarding what port forwarding is. What I envision happening next is that probably ProtonVPN will also announce that they'll drop port forwarding. I suppose there will be another great influx of users - mainly looking for port forwarding option - to another VPN provider that has a good privacy stance - in this case ProtonVPN - which will eventually force Proton team to also drop it to prevent further abuse (as it was one of the main reasons that made both Mullvad and IVPN drop it).

Who else uses port forwarding though, besides Bittorrent users?

Obviously not Bitcoin Core clients, because you shouldn't be running it through a VPN anyway, but rather through Tor.


The fact that we're at the point where you have to use VPNs to access region-locked content on streaming platforms[1] shows that the whole business model of that industry is broken and makes for a very frustrating experience for users.

[1]: and even that is not a "god mode" as some franchises keep their movies off of rival platforms, such as Star Wars.


Sweden is part of the EU, right? Or just the EEA?

You are right, Bitcoin Core clients don't need VPNs with port forwarding option. Besides Bittorrent users, gamers use port forwarding to host game servers or enhance their performance when playing online. Also, those who host Plex Media Servers and overall, do p2p things, need port forwarding service.
But that feature is definitely not necessary for us and we can continue life without that :D

You are right! There is no point to block content in certain countries if you can legally use VPN and stream whatever you want. It makes me to believe that there is a space created intentionally to milk some additional money. It's a problem if you use VPN to buy cheap Turkish subscription but it's okay if you buy American or EU expensive one :D

It's part of the EU.

Tor doesn't really work if you quickly want to download a few (Fork) chains. I've used a VPN for this, but didn't need port forwarding. If you'd like to be an uploading node, a VPN with port forwarding contributes much more than a Tor node. I prefer a server for that though.

Of course region locks are designed for profit maximization. You can't really blame them: if Americans can afford $10 and Turks $1, it's worth allowing the Turks as long as it pays for hosting plus some profit. But if they'd charge Americans $1 too, they wouldn't have enough budget to run their company.
But you also can't really blame the users when they use a VPN.

There are definitely more experienced people than me in privacy on bitcointalk, so I have a question for you: There are people who haven't tried VPN and want to try, or let's say, I want people to make this topic more active and every week/month I'll reward the ones who publish most genuine, helpful and informative guides/articles in this thread.
If I buy and give away Mullvad or IVPN's monthly VPN service to people there and someone does something illegal (not me, definitely), can that giveaway turn into a problem for me?

Be careful not to turn this into a giveaway thread, that's not allowed.

If this would come back bite you in the ass, that means the VPN kept logs. So first of all, it shouldn't be possible to come back to you. But even if it's traced back that you paid for the subscription, and note that I'm not a lawyer, I see no reason why you'd be liable for someone else's actions. Just like their ISP isn't liable, just like the VPN service isn't liable.

Thanks for warning. So, I should post giveaways in games sections in case I decide to do one.

Good point! Thanks again!

Nope, still not allowed (unless you're giving away Bitcoin, or not asking people to post for it).

They can just try Mullvad at any price: when making a Bitcoin transaction and getting a small amount of change (say 1000 sat, close to the dust limit and barely worth sending), use "send to many" instead and send that change to fund a new Mullvad account. That dust gets them 42 hours of Mullvad access, and should be more than enough to test it.

I'd suggest regularly bumping this thread if you want people to read this (like once a week or so). Those who want to use VPN will actively ask for reviews/read previous posts anyway. Even if you can incentivize people it will just give you more trouble later on. Not to mention some reputable members do post their experience/suggestions regularly already. If anything doing something like that is likely going to invite spammers to your thread.

Because of the nature of my work (I am not telling you anything about it :P), my company requires that I use VPNs for certain activities. I use one that is tagged here as being privacy-focused and cheap - Windscribe. The second one that my boss provides is Surfshark, which is non-privacy focused according to the OP. I am very satisfied with both, and they get the job done. Windscribe is my main VPN, though, and seems faster. Surfshark offers servers from more countries.

Very good, I like it! Yeah, Surfshark is non-privacy focused because of this:
Also, as far as I know, their Killswitch sometimes leaks IP, many people were posting about this.

To be honest, recently I am starting to like IVPN, like their pricing and services, also their VPN is very fast, like the interface of their app, like the way they let you to create an account without email and other details, they also use and financially support BTCPayserver and they only support two cryptocurrencies for payment, Bitcoin and Monero. I don't advertise their service but just feel like they are very close to Mullvad.

I wouldn't pay too much attention on a company's claim that they are not storing logs, they will never share logs, or that your information is safe. In the past, there have been cases where those that claimed your information is safe or that nothing gets logged were caught lying. They are a business entity interested in their own well-being and prosperity. If the right people knock on their doors, many will comply and magically recover deleted data.

I don't believe what they write but in this case, it certainly means that they store your logs but it's difficult to say whether they really delete it after 15 minutes or not, for cautious, I would say - not.
But there is a thing that I don't understand, do VPN companies have legal right to act and say that they don't store logs? Is it legal to offer VPN service without storing logs and activities? If yes, then why do they lie? If not, then why do they lie again? If they don't have right to not keep logs, then their it's a criminal case that they mention no-log policy on their website and if they have legal right to offer no-log service, then I don't really understand why do they cheat and still keep our logs and activities. It's a pure bullshit to say that they keep it in order to optimize network performance. Yeah, it's necessary for that too but it's possible to offer normal service without that.

It probably depends on the company's location and the geo location of the users connecting to their servers. I am sure they are required by law to keep logs that could be recovered in case of criminal activities by the users. It's not the same if the VPN provider operates outside of the Five Eyes countries (or one of the other X Eyes countries) or some exotic off-grid territory ,though. To be on the safe side, I would rather think they are storing logs unless proven otherwise. 

For those interested: Mullvad has now concluded another infrastructure audit[1] (third one) conducted by Radically Open Security[2] - Netherlands based firm - and where are their main conclusions:
For those interested in knowing in what kind of environment were these tests conducted, wait no more:
As always, Mullvad transparency is something that is unique to them and that I would like to see other VPN providers adopting. Even after dropping port forwarding features, they still are one of the VPN providers that I can't stop recommending to people around me (that and IVPN).

Besides this infrastructure audit they also recently published another entry[3] where they also state that their client isn't susceptible to the "TunnelCrack" vulnerability disclosure[4].

---

[1]https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/8/9/infrastructure-audit-completed-by-radically-open-security/ (https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/8/9/infrastructure-audit-completed-by-radically-open-security/)
[2]https://www.radicallyopensecurity.com/ (https://www.radicallyopensecurity.com/)
[3]https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/8/9/response-to-tunnelcrack-vulnerability-disclosure/ (https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/8/9/response-to-tunnelcrack-vulnerability-disclosure/)
[4]https://tunnelcrack.mathyvanhoef.com/ (https://tunnelcrack.mathyvanhoef.com/)

I'll just leave this here, since a lot of VPN services have been blocked in Russia, and information from the telegram channel gives a clue to VPN services that are still working.

 (https://zoogvpn.com/)
 (https://xeovo.com/)
 (https://vpnredcat.com/ru)
 (https://getoutline.org/)
 (https://lantern.io/)
 (https://psiphon.ca/)
 (https://finevpn.org/)
 (https://amnezia.org/)
 (https://seed4.me/)
 (https://blancvpn.com/ru)
 (https://surfshark.com/) -
 (https://redshieldvpn.com/)
 (https://cloudvpn.pro/ru/)
 (https://antizapret.prostovpn.org/)
 (https://turbovpn.com/ru/)
 (https://hi-l.im/)
 (https://adguard-vpn.com/ru/welcome.html)
 (https://t.me/vpngen)
 (https://www.newnode.com/)
 (https://stolitomsonvpn.com/)


https://t.me/na_svyazi_helpdesk/193

I want to believe that's a mistake. Right? Perhaps, you entering Xeovo there instead of zoogvpn seems to have misplaced others beneath on your list. You may want to crosscheck it.

Are the VPNs listed in this thread blocked in your country? I have no idea about how good those VPNs are, I only know Surfshark and it's already on the list. Besides that, I think ProtonVPN still works in Russia and it's on the list too. I even created a new thread on your local board but no one has responded: Кaким VPN пpoвaидepoм пoльзyeтecь? (http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5463284).
If you guys respond and help me to filter this list, then I'll add them on the list here.

Yes, that's a mistake man, without a doubt. It's pretty clear to see that there is the website first, then name of upcoming VPN provider, then website down below, then the name of upcoming VPN provider and so on. That's okay man.

How about VPS access? If you can access them, you can run your own VPN software starting from about $10 per year.

No, from what I understood from Telegram post is available in Russia right now and not blocked. I read thatthey're actively fighting with VPN services and trying to censor internet. But probably it's worth adding to the list only these services that someone from forum users have tried and can vouch for it.

We all know that VPN is not the best solution when it comes to privacy and there are better alternatives like Tor but what do you think about combining VPN and Tor? I.E. is it good to use Tor with VPN or not? We can write a good guide about it.

Personally, I think that everyone should hide Tor usage from their ISP because normally it's considered that you use Tor to hide something from government. At least we should assume so to maximize our privacy.
So, there are two options to protect Tor usage from your ISP:
1. Use Tor Bridges
2. Use VPN service providers with no-log policy.

1. Tor Bridges - It's considered unethical if you live in a country where Tor is legal and use Tor Bridge because they are usually meant for people where Tor is illegal, i.e. for people from China, Iran, etc. But Tor Bridges hide it from your ISP that you use Tor. If Tor gets compromised, you are getting exposed too.
2. VPNs - When you connect to VPN and then open Tor browser, your ISP only sees that you are connected to VPN, it can't see that you are using Tor but your VPN provider can see that you are using Tor. If it happens that your VPN provider doesn't really log you, then you can feel safe even if Tor gets compromised.

Personally, I would use Tor over VPN, i.e. would run Qubes OS with tails and route Tails traffic through VPN. Safe VPNs to my mind are Mullvad and probably IVPN too.

Short version:

Longer version: see TorPlusVPN (https://gitlab.torproject.org/legacy/trac/-/wikis/doc/TorPlusVPN).

That article just covers basic differences, at the same time it mentions that VPN can enhance your anonymity if configured correctly and your VPN provider has zero logs but doesn't talk about how to configure it correctly, which is the main part of this subject.

Tor Bridges are avaiable for free for people who really need it. When you use Tor Bridge, you are consuming part of bandwidth that's meant for people who really need it.
Long story short, my advice is to use Tor Bridge if you live in a country where Tor is blocked. If Tor is not blocked and you still want to hide your Tor usage from your ISP,

I haven't updated this thread and VPN service provider prices for a long time but it looks like there is no change in prices, they all remain the same, I just checked recently all of them.

---

By the way, I checked Windscribe's R.O.B.E.R.T page and discovered that along many features that includes block list, they also have one that I don't like: Competitors (Other VPNs). When you enable R.O.B.E.R.T on windscribe, they block all competitor VPNs and this is their explanation:

How fair is that? Should I remove them from the list of Privacy focused cheap monthly VPNs?

Personally I would never use a service that censures my internet browsing in any way and in this specific case it just doesn't make sense (to me at least). This is just plain censoring - they are pretty much blocking you in seeing other providers offers because "supposedly" they are the best one. The fact that they claim they are the best privacy tool after suffering this breach[1] in the past is amusing to say the least. I would also like to point out that despise promising to release their full node audit in 2023, they still haven't done it[2].

---

[1]https://restoreprivacy.com/windscribe-vpn-security-breach-servers-seized/ (https://restoreprivacy.com/windscribe-vpn-security-breach-servers-seized/)
[2]https://rus.windscribe.com/knowledge-base/articles/has-windscribe-been-audited (https://rus.windscribe.com/knowledge-base/articles/has-windscribe-been-audited)

I just read how it works on https://windscribe.com/features/robert (https://windscribe.com/features/robert) and it seems you can choose not to block competitor VPN. I believe few people would use such feature, such as not allowing their WiFi users to bypass blockade to certain content. So IMO it's still fair game if it's disabled by default. Although i'm also concerned that they offer option to block crypto.

Yes, it's optional to block other VPN service providers but is it normal that that service is called block Competitors (Other VPNs)? And the description of that service is that you are using the best VPN called Windscribe and there is no need of seeing other VPNs. To my mind, that's censorship and false statement. If windscribe thinks that they are the best, then they shouldn't include an option that blocks other VPNs.
I understand that they block cryptomining services but I don't understand what's wrong with exchanges and crypto news websites. It's probably okay to block CEX but I think they include DEX too. It's irony that they accept crypto payments but block cryptocurrencies.

There is nothing wrong with exchanges and crypto news websites ofc. I suspect windscribe is trying to widen their target audience or create more variety for this since I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people who wants to abstain from anything crypto due to stigma/disinterest.

I do wonder if they list scam websites too cause the blocklist seems customizable. For instance, one could whitelist their go-to exchanges and the rest together with scams are blocked in return -- not that I need it in determining scams but it could be another use for some folks. Speaking of, I'm surprised they don't have a category for general scams.

In any case, I think the whole thing depends on one's risk appetite. A middle ground approach could be adding a list of things people should take note and let them decide if they're ok or nah.

Those filters are optional and not enabled by default but it is still stupid that it is something which they are offering as a suggestion. What is even more concerning is their fake news filter. There aren't any details explaining how it works but the icon for the filter seems to be a reference to Donald Trump's hair. Is this implying they will censor right wing websites when you turn this filter on? While I do not like Trump or the alt-right, VPN's shouldn't be censoring information which they find objectionable — bypassing censorship is one of the primary reasons for needing a VPN to begin with.

They are only optionally blocking and it's mostly for malicious crypto mining crap, not everything related with bitcoin and crypto.
This ROBERT feature is not bad at all if used correctly, especially if you have kids and you want to hide from them adult content, gambling, etc.
Important thing is they gave customers option to hide, it's not mandatory, and other VPN providers are doing something similar with custom DNS settings, for example Mullvad VPN.
I think you can pay everything on this vpn website with Bitcoin, so they are not anti-bitcoin or anything like that.

Re: Windscribe

You are supposed to use these kinds of VPNs to circumvent censorship, not to censor yourself!  ???

Yes. Any VPN that's afraid of competitors doesn't deserve to be promoted.

I am not removing Windscribe from my VPN list, I am just removing them from the list of Privacy focused cheap monthly VPNs and will move it into Non-Privacy Focused Mainstream VPNs because their business doesn't seem to be valuing privacy and freedom, instead, they put their own censorship. Windscribe's R.O.B.E.R.T's blocklist is not open-source, it's closed.

This is what they say about their competitors:
Block them all, is this a fair game? They say most VPN companies track you, that means, some of them don't track you, why should we block all of them? Is also there any evidence that Windscribe is the best privacy tool out there?

No. It's impossible to prove, which makes their claims about others even more ridiculous.

I also don't like the idea of using an icon representing a pile of feces when referring to other competitors product / services. From my perspective it's just a bad business practice and we shouldn't support these kind of companies. Like LoyceV said, the claim s completely void of any arguments/facts that they can present to proof their stance. They just want to grab the attention of unaware/uninformed users ...

Dude I don't know what you are talking about  ::)
First of all I am not defending windscribe but they are open source, and this robert is DNS based tool... most other VPN providers have this, included Mullvad that is in your list.
Do your own research, and don't mix privacy with censorship, and I will repeat again, all VPN's have (optional) self ''censorship'' according to you  :P
https://mullvad.net/en/help/dns-over-https-and-dns-over-tls

You obviously don't understand this so I won't continue this discussion anymore.
Best of luck.

Not true.
There are many gambling addicts who want self-exclusion, and parents who want to restrict some access to their kids.

Windscribe is open-sourced but R.O.B.E.R.T list is not. Mullvad's dns-blocklists is public: https://github.com/mullvad/dns-blocklists. Show me the one from Windscribe and I'll stop.
I have nothing against Windscribe too, their free plan is good for those who want to test VPN or rarely waste bandwidth and only visit text-only websites.

Just wondering, how will VPN that you can turn off with one click, will exclude you from gambling? The most effective tool in this case is to ask casino to ban you from gambling and they won't unban you even if you request it.
By the way, I don't say that R.O.B.E.R.T. is an useless tool, it has its place but I don't understand why their blocklist is not public.

In order to combat gambling addiction there are better ways to do it other than using a VPN to block certain websites (after all a user doesn't even need a VPN for that when you can create a list for blocked websites in uBlock Origin for example.). I easily see opposite happen - gambling addicts instead using VPN services to access gambling websites that may have been blocked on their country.

Also, as a note, every licensed casino/gambling company has to offer a self exclusion procedure[1] that can be used by any client (see for example this[2] one from bet365) in order to prevent them from using the service.

---

[1]https://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/public-and-players/page/self-exclusion (https://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/public-and-players/page/self-exclusion)
[2]https://responsiblegambling.bet365.com/stay-in-control/self-exclusion (https://responsiblegambling.bet365.com/stay-in-control/self-exclusion)

You can setup the VPN on your router, so all device connected to that router would use Windscribe/other VPN automatically along with optional blockade. But your router must have feature to use either custom OpenVPN, WireGuard or IKEv2 VPN configuration. But i've no idea whether you can configure things to be blocked from manual configuration.

It won't.
If you want protect your children, updating your hosts file (https://github.com/StevenBlack/hosts) helps. I'm not concerned about gambling, but I use it to block social media and other ads.

It would probably work better than asking casinos to self-exclude you, when you can easily register new account and/or use different casino.
Setting custom DNS can be done even without using any VPN, this can be on network or router level, and yes this is self-censorship that actually works.

I didn't propose that VPN should be used just for this purpose, but I simply stated that DNA based self-censorship is very effective way and it has real use cases.
uBlock origin is something I use every day, but simple using of different browser would bypass any restrictions you made.

Yes, and there are thousands of different casinos they can use.
Today I saw one example in Scam Accusation of one guy who got self-exclusion but they accepted him again with different account:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5484390.0

Admittedly I do not know a whole lot about gambling addiction solutions, but shouldn't addicts be trying to get professional counseling to figure out the best way for them to solve their gambling problem? Which may or may not include blocking the websites by DNS.

But DNS blocking is hard, because there's a bunch of illegal betting websites around, to the point where even professional athletes were banned for using them.

Since we currently talk about blocking feature, today Mullvad announce content blocking for their free DNS[1]. The interesting part is they share list of blocked sites[2].


Using professional counseling might cost a fortune, while blocking website cost little or no money.


That's true, although i wonder how many addict interested with illegal casino which may cheat or scam them. Anyway, i've seen people take more drastic action such as installing software which perform whitelist or block all web page which contain specific keyword.

[1] https://mullvad.net/en/blog/family-friendly-dns-content-blocking-now-added-to-our-encrypted-dns-service (https://mullvad.net/en/blog/family-friendly-dns-content-blocking-now-added-to-our-encrypted-dns-service)
[2] https://github.com/mullvad/dns-blocklists (https://github.com/mullvad/dns-blocklists)

Interesting to see, thank you for the update. I think that the main difference with Mullvad is that the reason for doing this content blocking is different (as stated by their blog update - "enable parents and guardians the opportunity to block unwanted advertising, adult content and gambling, whilst still enabling their children access to social media platforms.") and this is also a free Encrypted DNS which makes you free to choose either to use it or not.

Yeah well that is why some people came up with solution to ban everything related with gambling, porn and other things with using third party software.
DNS blocking is not that hard, you just need to have list of blocked websites that is constantly updated with new domains.

Very nice.
I don't know if you guys know this, but it's easy to add their DNS address in your smartphone settings, and there will be no more ads on internet, except in apps maybe.
You don't even have to use Mullvad VPN to have this.

I've chosen Proton VPN over others due to BTC payment option. Now. Let's see the midterm results. I've paid 120 Euros (in BTC!) say one year back. And that amount turned to be like 430 Euros by 2024. But amount in BTC did fall back to same sum in Euros! Did I overspend my assets?

That's nature of things when you're paying in BTC for goods. When you're paying in BTC, you have to accept possibility that Bitcoin can go up significantly and it may make your purchases to look very expensive. On the other hand, Bitcoin can go down too.
Personally, I wouldn't consider that you overspent. After all, at time of purchase you paid €120, not €430.

At that time, you could buy and sell X amount of bitcoin for 120 Euros. Now, if you were to sell that number of bitcoins, you'll get 430 Euro but you can't buy the same amount of Bitcoins for 120 Euros, that's called investment. So, you didn't overpay for the service because you had a need of VPN back then and it was probably necessary for you to buy VPN in exchange of amount of Bitcoins.
Please, don't follow that logic and don't get yourself depressed because of that. We can't always invest in Bitcoin and also we can't invest everything into Btc. There are things where we need to spend money anyways, including food, drink, rent and so on. If you think like that, then you might also say that you overpaid on your meal x4 because you could buy Bitcoin and sell it with 4x profit. That's not right way to think, this will only make you feel depressed.

I remember the days I would spend 0.001BTC to use Mullvad VPN for a day. Nowadays, that buys you more than a year. Since Bitcoin is at a new All Time High, every piece of Bitcoin I ever spent or sold can be thought of as a bad decision. But that's in hindsight.
On the other hand, it also helped support the Bitcoin economy. Bitcoin can't be a currency if nobody uses it. So as long as you don't spend everything, you're still on the winning end.

Let me tell quote you a story:

Anyone here tried and tested cryptostorm.is VPN service?
I see them popping out more recently, they have open source code, no registration, no kyc and they are accepting cryptocurrency payments.
Mullvad is probably a better service, but it's always good to have some alternative opentions available.

Interesting, I had never heard of them, but apparently they have been running for 10 years[1] - Question #7. It seems interesting, and they something unusual as well - you are able to purchase a lifetime license. Perpetuity is always a tricky choice in products as it doesn't provide a constant flow of revenue like subscriptions, so it is an interesting choice.

However, a bit of investigation led me to this[2] post regarding the connection between Cryptostorm and CryptoCloud and someone named Spink. Also, I wasn't able to find any kind of audit made to the infrastructure of CryptoStorm...
I also consider IVPN to be on par with Mullvad level of operation and business ethics.

---

[1]https://www.cryptostorm.is/faq (https://www.cryptostorm.is/faq)
[2]https://airvpn.org/forums/topic/16590-about-honeypots/?do=findComment&comment=36684 (https://airvpn.org/forums/topic/16590-about-honeypots/?do=findComment&comment=36684)

Actually it's first time i heard this VPN service. But looking at the guide, i find it's annoying the guide (for various OS) only meant for OpenVPN even though they support WireGuard. Less technical user better use Mullvad which offer more guide and user-friendly application.


I did quick check and it seems to be true, https://web.archive.org/web/20130926232935/https://cryptostorm.is/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20130926232935/https://cryptostorm.is/).

Yeah it definitely looks... shady. I guess I'll continue to pay attention to any development or news that come out of the service, but I still won't touch it for now. They do appear also on KYCnot.me[1] with a high score but do note that that the website only evaluates how KYC unfriendly the serivce and how private their policy is.

---

[1]https://kycnot.me/service/cryptostorm (https://kycnot.me/service/cryptostorm)

I've seen too many cases in which "lifetime" isn't really lifetime. I wouldn't pay $500 up front for this.

You're right as well, one example that instantly came to my mind was the infamous Cerberus application[1] that "offered" lifetime subscriptions to amass a huge set of users and then when they reached a comfortable number they simply removed the license. In another similar topic, I am still amazed at how long Plex has been offering their lifetime subscription though, I wonder if they will hit it with the axe eventually.

---

[1][url]https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/12/21/cerberus-paid-lifetime-license-expiration/[url]

ProtonMail also used to offer lifetime subscriptions. You could get them for 800 EUR a pop, way back in 2014 back when they were running a fundraiser.

That's a lot of money for a vendor lock-in.

If I had more smerits, I would send you them but at the moment I have only left 2, I am on budget.
Thank you very much for sharing that VPN, it looks very interesting and it is the first time for me to hear about them but it seems that they are an old VPN service provider because I found topics about them since 2014 (haven't dig much). Seems, they haven't changed their UI since the first day but their FAQ section and overall structure of information is very different from others. From quick view, it looks like this is a privacy focused VPN but they accept BitPay for crypto payments, c'mon.

I would stick with IVPN or Mullvad. I don't want any room for headache. By the way, from quick research, many people complain their service but I'll try to find more info about them in the upcoming days.

I haven't noticed this before but today I checked IVPN and saw that they offer discounts for businesses and non-profit organizations. If someone here is from nonprofit, you can get IVPN Pro for $3 a month and if you are from a company that needs a VPN, IVPN offers Pro plan for $5-$9, depends on the number of members.

I'll also soon recheck the prices of listed VPN providers and also update this thread with Black Friday deals. I think that Mullvad and IVPN won't offer discounts but many Non-Privacy Focused Mainstream VPNs will offer good Black Friday deals.
Stay tuned for a news update.

Well... they also accept NOWpayments but I'll admit that's probably an even worse option than BitPay. They do accept Monero directly though, so you can just pay with that if you're truly paranoid (and if you are, you probably would be using XMR anyway, not Bitcoin).

I wonder how is the performance of that thing though. like is it fast, or what?

It is very unlikely that IVPN or Mullvad will offer discounts as I am 99 % certain that they never did. Mullvad especially has kept their price - 5 € - the same ever since their inception in 2019.

I checked Proton VPN and Nord VPN and it seems like they do have a Black Friday deal. You can get a 1-year plan for 40 euros for Proton VPN[1], while you can get a 24-month plan for $122 at Nord VPN[2]. I feel like Nord's discount is pretty similar to their 2 year-package deal which happens quite often though, so not sure if this is a nice offer or not. I'm interested in buying Proton VPN but I still have a month of Mullvad, not sure if I'd switch just because of the discount.

[1] https://protonvpn.com/blackfriday
[2] https://nordvpn.com/black-friday/

Windscribe Black Friday Sale is also live at 29 bucks for 1 year, see: https://windscribe.com/blog/fuchsia-friday-deal-early-access/

Promo code:

BTW, might be a dumb question but does anyone know how does the 1 year stack if there are still months left in your subscription? will the 1 year count start the moment you sub'd or from your previous subscription's end date?


I guess prices could be different? perhaps location matters too? In my case, I was seeing 35.88 EUR which I was able to change to 35.88 USD using the currency drop down menu so it's a bit cheaper lol. However, I couldn't find any crypto payment available 🤔

For Mullvad users who solely rely on the OpenVPN protocol like me, in a year's time ^[roughly], WireGuard will be the only protocol on Mullvad: Removing OpenVPN 15th January 2026 (https://mullvad.net/en/blog/removing-openvpn-15th-january-2026)
^{- Considering that I have to switch to another provider soon, I wonder if someone could also recommend a good VPN for online gaming (NordVPN was awful while Mullvad is somewhat okay).}

I'll update the thread on Monday and if there is a BOGO deal, I'll also update it early on Black Friday, 29 November.

It's confusing and I don't understand why Proton VPN made payment option in such a stupid way. You have to sign up under the Free plan and then upgrade your plan from Dashboard, then you'll be able to pay with Bitcoin.
Here is the guide: https://protonvpn.com/support/vpn-bitcoin-payments


Was NordVPN really awful for you? From my experience, it's one of the fastest VPN. A good alternative of Mullvad is IVPN because they offer Bitcoin, Monero, Cash and some other payment methods, also offer affordable prices, fund BTCPayserver project, is open-source and also, for me, it's faster than Mullvad.

You can get a trial on every Non-Privacy Focused Mainstream VPNs if you want to test them for gaming. Just download them on your smartphone, then it will offer you a 7 day trial, create an account, activate a trial and then login with that account credentials in your PC.

It used to be my favorite, but a couple of years back I started experiencing a massive drop in its overall performance... Despite renewing my subscription for two more years at that time, I only used it for less than a month before I decided to go with Mullvad.
^{- Having said that, you might get away with it for slow-paced games, but that's not the case with FPS games.}

Thank you... I'll test it when my current subscription ends.

As much as I hate to be the product, I tried this route but couldn't activate the free trials for both ExpressVPN & Surfshark since it required adding a payment method and I didn't want to do that... I'd put the gaming performance of Windscribe in between NordVPN and Mullvad while CyberGhost kept crashing for some reason.

I think that if there is a black friday deal, it's already there and I don't expect a surprise from any company in 29 November, so it's fair to say that Mullvad and IVPN don't offer any Black Friday discount.

Proton VPN has a good discount, 1 year plan worth $35.88. This is the link of their Black Friday deal: protonvpn.com/blackfriday
Windscribe also has a nice offer, 1 year worth $29. For this Black Friday deal, visit: https://windscribe.com/upgrade?promo=FUCHYEAH

GhostVPN offers 2 years for $60, here is the link to the deal: https://www.cyberghostvpn.com/buy/cyberghost-vpn-3
ExpressVPN gives you additional 6 months free, so, 30 months plan costs 149,70 USD, link to the deal: https://www.expressvpn.com/order-deals-trial
NordVPN also offers you multiple plans, so check  the deal yourself: https://nordvpn.com/pricing/
Surfshark has multiple deals, so it's better to check plans yourself: https://surfshark.com/pricing

You only add payment method in PlayStore and you have to cancel it before the payment time comes. You can try a virtual card or a card that expires in a few days or add a card and then block if you wish. As far as I know, VPN provider doesn't know which card you use before you pay.

^^
I have taken NordVPN subscription for 2 years on last Black Friday, can't remember how much I paid for it. But I'm satisfied with itvso far.
VPN services probably is one of few remaining things which still has good deals on Black Friday, not some fake discounts. Though, many VPN providers have various promotions often and it's easy to get decent discount codes.

I just saw bitrefill doing 50% cashback for NordVPN gift cards. Or is there a catch to the said cashback? I couldn't find anything from self-help articles and ToS, though.

The cashback can only be used to buy off of bitrefill ofc, so, promo takers must have something in mind to buy. I think this gift card is for the basic plan but with the exception of 6 devices instead of 10. For the 1 year plan, it's slightly cheaper at bitrefill but Nord offers an additional 3 months on their website.

Source: https://bitrefill.com/us/en/gift-cards/nordvpn-international/

There's a Dutch (non-crypto) site doing 100% cashback for new NordVPN customers. I've never tried it, because Mullvad's "no discounts" sounds like a much better business model. I remember the Facebook expression: if I'm not paying for it, I'm the product being sold.

I have seen nordVPN deals before and they should be legit with bitrefill, but I wouldn't trust blindly this vpn, they have been hacked in the past.
Not that I am suggesting anything, but I heard it's not that hard to get 30 days free trialk with the same service.

It's expected Mullvad wouldn't offer Black Friday discount. After all, they always offer flat 5 EUR/month with 10% discount if you pay with cryptocurrency. Deal by Proton VPN isn't half bad either, although it's Proton Unlimited (where you also get email, drive and others) is better choice if you really trust Proton with all kinds of tasks.

That's very interesting, 100% cashback? Was it for 1 month or 1 year? 1 month is okay but if there was a cashback on 12 months, then there is definitely something wrong.

I like Mullvad's and IVPN's approach but it would be really nice if there was a small discount during Black Friday, at least for a monthly plan but there is a thing that I don't like about Mullvad, they are centralizing privacy, i.e. Mullvad VPN, Mullvad Browser, Mullvad Search, maybe it's my wrong intuition but I think this is bad for privacy when you use three products of one provider. That's why I don't use Proton, they have so many services under their Proton hood that I do not find it safe.

---

Did anyone use the advantage of Black Friday deals? Was my thread and Black Friday deals links beneficial for you? Some websites had done it in a way that it was not possible to get info about Black Friday discount directly from their website.

It's a year. I know they hope you'll keep paying afterwards, but I don't like it.

I must say I like the "no discount" approach. Giving a discount just means you're overcharging without the discount. If a company can give 30-50% discount, that just means they're charging too much without discount. And it means I don't want to buy from them without discount, which makes it an annoying business model. No discounts ever is a very transparent policy.

That's a bit like saying you don't buy a Honda car because they also make motorcycles and outboord engines. I use Mullvad, I use Proton. But I don't use all their services.

But on other hand, you don't have to worry whether you could get better deal if you're willing to wait and visit their website regularly.


I get the point, although you don't have to use all of their services. Besides, Mullvad Browser is just fork of Tor Browser, where they work together with Tor team.


I think your thread and recent post are helpful, but i already subscribe to certain VPN service.

That's strange because it's not hard to find good VPN deals. One day Nord offers a free trial, then you use expressvpn, then cyberghost, then surfshark and the list goes on. So, that's strange to me but maybe they are very confident in their product. I can't talk about privacy of NordVPN but their speed is one of the best from my experience.

I agree with you, I like Mullvad's business model. No deals, no black fridays, no cyber mondays, no christmas, no new year, no inflation, 5 Euro is 5 Euro. VPNs are overcharging us and it's sad that there isn't a good competition between them for 1 month plans. There are only a few good companies that are exceptions.

Thank you, that's very nice to hear.

---

Guys, most of the deals are still active because there is a Cyber Monday. So, don't miss it (there are no affiliates in my link).

I decided to try ProtonVPN with their Black Friday deals. A major difference from other providers that I tried is the number of servers available to choose from, though some of them were blocked by the websites that I visited regularly. I might switch back to Mullvad if the advantage isn't as big as I thought tho.

I think this thread is helpful to check out deals available if I'm too lazy to filter from the PR articles.

wireguard is the superior protocol over OpenVPN.
much less lines of codebase make it more auditable to find bugs, its also faster and more modern.

OpenVPN has a huge codebase, its slow and clunky.

I don't know if this is related but some games I played also have slow connection if I choose WireGuard over OpenVPN on my Mullvad. Sometimes failed to connect after multiple retries. Their servers are located in China though, so other factors might be at play here. That being said, I used Proton with WireGuard as of now and I've found no problems at all. From my limited experience, Proton is quite okay for gaming unless you need very low ping (keep in mind that the servers you choose will affect this too). CMIIW.

It's funny how each VPN has a different speed for all of us. As far as I remember, LoyceV has said that Mullvad is one of the fastest VPN for him while it was one of the slowest for me (especially US servers).
From my experience, NordVPN and Surfshark are the best for gaming because they offer me the lowest latency in nearby countries but I also want to say that overall, for high speed and high privacy, my favorite VPN is IVPN. I believe that IVPN is much safer bet than NordVPN or Surfshark.

Mullvad is the only VPN I use, so I can't compare. It reaches the maximum my own internet connection can reach, which isn't that fast anyway.

Have you heard or had any negative experiences with NordVPN?

Service itself is good and fast, it's useful for gaming and streaming but I wouldn't use it for privacy reasons because there have been issues around this VPN.
There is a data mining company called Tefincom SA that has ties to Tesonet. NordVPN was co-founded by Tesonet co-founder Tomas Okmanas.
In 2022, NordVPN and Surfshark merged under the company Nord Security (the one that owns Nord VPN).
There are so many details to write, it will take me hours but this is a good article that sums everything well: https://windscribe.com/blog/the-vpn-relationship-map/
This is also a good Reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/VPNTorrents/comments/9adi37/i_investigated_the_nordvpn_ordeal_here_is_what_i/

It depends on your location and the load for their server locations.
Maybe for you using one VPN server would be fast, but for someone else in different country this would be slow.
Some VPN services also have different type of connection protocols (WireGuard, IKEv2, TCP, UDP, etc), that can affect quality and internet speed.
Note that fastest is not always the best and the most private.

Mullvad now supports Bitcoin Lightning!

Mullvad is one of the best VPN services accepting Bitcoin, and privacy payments with Monero, but there are other good alternatives.

I recently tested new decentralized VPN service NYM (https://nym.com/), and I think is very good for privacy, it deserves to be added on this list.
NYM is accepting Bitcoin, Lightning Network, Monero, Liquid L-BTC, L-USDT, Nym token, with 50% discount.

Another good service is LNVPN (https://lnvpn.net/) that is accepting Lightning Network, USDT/USDC and other coins.
Note that Bitcoin mainnet and Monero payment options are currently greyed out.

Hello, my current VPN subscription will end by June and I want to find a new one.

My main focus is privacy, but I want a decent speed as well, not for gaming, but I don't want to have a bad experience when watching a youtube video for example.

I am somewhere between Mullvad (which I 've used in the past) and Mullvad  :P

So, if you had to choose today, with the current pricing and conditions, which one would you choose?

I would first test several VPN services to see what works best for your specific case.
Mullvad is great but it is to expensive for me, and NYM vpn is better for privacy in my opinion, because it is decentralized.
You are not going to send any personal information to NYM if you pay with privacy options they support, and it's impossible to log your data.

Have you tested the speed? I will do it, but I am asking for info beforehand.

Why do you think Mullvad is expensive compared to NYM?
Mullvad costs 5 euros per month no matter the duration.
NYM costs minimum 4.49 CHF per month if you do the 2 year subscription.

I consider the fact that NYM is registered in Switzerland to be a good thing for privacy, because Switzerland is good in terms of privacy-protecting rules.

Everything has it's cost. With Mullvad you do not even need an email address and such things. You can pay using crypto [Bitcoin]. It means if you know how to remove your fingerprints then even purchasing Mullvad is 100% privacy protected.

Disclaimer: Not a Mullvad marketing agent LOL

I am not 100% sure I want to remove my fingerprints entirely, but since I asked for a privacy-oriented VPN, I understand why you mention it. I am leaning more torwards finding something that will not keep logs (or at least keep minimum logs) and that will support some features like Double-VPN or TOR-over-VPN. You know, little things like that can help me be well private all the time and, super well private when I need it with the click of a button.

I'll have a look at those VPNs these days, do a little more research myself and then I'll update the list if that VPN is really good enough.

I'd suggest you IVPN. For me, IVPN offers better speed than Mullvad and to my mind, privacy level is the same, both are great VPN providers.

Are you sure about that? Mullvad is one of the cheapest VPN and the best thing with mullvad is that 1 month worth 4.5 Euro if you pay with crypto and unlike to other VPN providers, you don't need to subscribe 3 yearly plan to get a low price.
Windscribe is also good solution in terms of price. Create a custom plan where you'll include two countries (there are some free servers of other countries included) and also mark Unlimited Data + R.O.B.E.R.T checkbox and you'll have a VPN with unlimited bandwidth for $3.

The way I see it IVPN vs Mullvad:

(a) both allow you to create an account without using any information, like email etc.
(b) mullvad gives you multi-hop VPN with the main subscription that costs 60 euros for 1 year, whereas IVPN needs 100 euros for 1 year to offer the multi-hop feature.
(c) both can be paid with Monero and Bitcoin payment.
(d) both offer WireGuard and OpenVPN.

So, I see very few differences in terms of feature. Mullvad is a bit cheaper. Since you mention that IVPN is better in terms of speed, I think it's worth a try.

I 've found a cool feature (not sure if it's used too much), that IVPN has, which allows you to pay instantly (via the Lightning Network) for a limited period of time (https://www.ivpn.net/light/) to use the VPN.

Are there any macOS users here who have tried Obscura VPN? Mullvad partnered with them three months ago to help with their multi-hop setup ^{[first hop is from Obscura VPN while the exit (second) hop uses Mullvad's WireGuard servers]}.

• For more details, refer to the following blog posts:
  - Mullvad has partnered with Obscura VPN (https://mullvad.net/en/blog/mullvad-partnered-with-obscura-vpn)
  - Trust, 2-Party Relays, and QUIC (https://obscura.net/blog/bootstrapping-trust/)

In roughly eight months, Mullvad will no longer have OpenVPN ^{[source (https://mullvad.net/en/blog/removing-openvpn-15th-january-2026)]}.

I've basically only used Mullvad, but it's often disconnecting. I forgot the exact error, but when I searched for it, I wasn't the only one with that problem.
Also, although it's been a while since I used it on my spare laptop (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2836875.msg60084872#msg60084872), it disconnected up to the point where I couldn't get the laptop online again even without Mullvad and eventually just reinstalled my laptop.

I stumbled upon this thread on Lowendtalk (https://lowendtalk.com/discussion/205436/free-unlimited-vpn-vps-0-25-per-month-hourly-over-75-locations-directadmin-host/p1). Note that I wouldn't trust that VPN, comments say it's not encrypted and basically only meant to avoid the Great Firewall of China, but I like the price model: €1/TB, unlimited time. Especially for light users, paying per TB could be a better deal than unlimited bandwidth while you pay per month. But I haven't seen any other VPN provider offer that.

I installed Mullvad again yesterday. I didn't have any disconnection issues so far. I paid with Monero. I tried both WireGuard and OpenVPN. As far as settings are concerned, I 've only disabled trackers & ads. So far so good.
Next month I will install IVPN and I will try the same, to see if it suits me better.

Mullvad gives you 10% discount if you pay with cryptocurrencies, so it's 54 Euro for 1 year. IVPN costs up to 90 Euro per year, a little bit cheaper, depends on the USD/EURO exchange rate but there is definitely a significant difference in price. I really think that IVPN worth the try, especially after that feature that you just linked, I didn't know about the existence of that, it's really very good but you can only select up to 5 locations on Single-Hop. Anyways, $4 is not a much for 1 week plan to test it before you purchase a long-term plan.

You are a lowendtalk guru :D I've seen your hosting offer catches on lowendtalk and they were very good.

Yes I did test it for one month and speed was very good.
That depends on your real location, so it won't work the same in Madagascar, Malta and Mongolia.
You need to test it first so I wish NYM adds daily plans.

Because there is 50% discount if you pay with bitcoin, monero, nym token and maybe some other crypto.
Being decentralized and no-log possible also has a price, so it can be dirt cheap.
NYM also started accepting cash via post payments for $EUR $CHF $USD $GBD.

In 24 days my monthly Mullvad subscription will end. Then I 'll try NYM. And finally I will conclude in one of these 2, unless I find another option to test. With Mullvad, I don't have a speed limitation so far, I am more than good with it. In terms of privacy, as I said I paid with XMR, using TOR browser, without an email registration and essentially I am "unknown".

Yeah, about that...

Switzerland is trying to end all no-log policies for VPNs in the country.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/crypto-projects-prepare-to-battle-for-privacy-in-switzerland/ar-AA1DLimX

^-- sorry for the MSN link, it was the first one in DuckDuckGo search results. But it's on other sites as well.

Basically all these VPN companies are threatening to move out of Switzerland if they start requiring VPNs and email providers to keep logs.

I know that Nym announced it is going to move out regardless, in any case.

But the question is to where.

Hmm, that's not good. I was considering Switzerland to be a good option for a VPN company, because of these privacy rules. Having read about it, I am now concerned. Are there any alternative countries? Not that it will be a 100% private, but just somewhat more privacy-oriented.

I'm aware privacy in Switzerland is in decline, due to their action against Proton[1]. This time, they're going to deteriorate it further, what a shame.


Good question. I wonder whether any small country (that include micro-state) and region with special administrative right have decent privacy law, since they usually have more relaxed law to attract more investor.

[1] https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/protonmail-scandal-tarnishes-swiss-privacy-reputation/46952640 (https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/protonmail-scandal-tarnishes-swiss-privacy-reputation/46952640)

That doesn't mean much for me because what's written on paper is different from what's actually happening. For example, Russia can create the best privacy-protecting rules but will anyone really believe that they'll be enforced? I do not compare Switzerland to Russia, there is a difference between these two countries but I'd say that it doesn't mean much.

Many VPNs have free trial for android users, so, download it from Play Store and check whether it gives you a free trial or not.
I'd really suggest you to give IVPN a try though.

Mullvad is based in Sweden and I think that's a good choice.

Although I get the point, I disagree, because even though rules are often selectively avoided at a nation-state level, it's better to exist, than to not exist at all. Yes, the authorities misuse their power and they often use laws to enforce certain policies that aren't fair, but nevertheless, when a rule exists, it's more difficult to avoid it than when it doesn't exist.

But, of course, no country can be considered a privacy heaven.

Yes, I agree with you, it's better to have laws than to not have laws and countries also matter because, for example, if the same law is written in Russia and in Switzerand, I'd definitely stick with Switzerland because such laws are strictly protected in Switzerland compared to Russia but my exact point was that despite the fact that it's written, it doesn't mean that it's protected and followed 100%.

---

I did some research and as it seems, Iceland should be a very good option for VPN companies because of their very pro-privacy laws.

Don't forget to pay with crypto to get a discount, and post review after you test it, I think one month is minimum now.
Another interesting new alternative is Obscura VPN, but that is available only for MacOS for now.

Whole Europe is going crazy, Spain limits cash withdrawal from banks, CBDC announced in EU from October, etc.
I think I even saw that in UK every crypto transaction will have to be KYC only from 2026  :P

Best to not use European IP addresses in the VPNs unless you really have to. They are forcing crypto companies to take the scorched earth approach for EU customers.

Do you mean European, as in geographically located in Europe, or as in European Union? Because on could argue that Switzerland is a good option, that's why I am asking.

Has anyone used Windscribe? I just noticed they seem to be under fire recently because they ban accounts due to excessive data usage for their "unlimited plan". I noticed one of the accounts used 60 PB/month. While I doubt I'll hit that high in my monthly usage, I've been wondering if it's time to drop them off (although they're one of the cheapest options for me).

I haven't used it, but I've seen their agressive discounts (and don't like that for a VPN).

That's 23 GB/s on average. I highly doubt that. Where did you notice this?

With many things, and that includes bandwidth consumption, the 80/20-rule applies: 80% of the bandwidth is used by 20% of the users. And within that 20%, it applies again. That means that most users pay more because of the costs created by a small number of excessive users. A Fair Use Policy can help prevent excessive costs from a few people.

I'd like to see more price models like this:
For reference: 1 TB would last me about 3 months on my desktop, and many years on my phone.

I meant EU countries only.

If you don't live on the continent, latency is high anyway.

Me neither, I dislike unreasonable discounts, because they look like they have put a red arrow pointing at them saying "here we are, notice us please"


Yeah certainly, even though when I travelled to the a country in the middle east, I didn't see a major difference, but it obviously depends on the country and their internet performance.

It's very strange to create a VPN only for MacOS users, I think that's mostly a marketing plan because if privacy is the main reason, then they should be linux focused but their product is focused on Apple users and by marking their VPN as MacOS limited, it might make some people to feel that this is a special service for Mac and they might buy it for only that reason.

Good luck to them with CBDC in Germany :D
Wasn't UK enforcing KYC on transactions higher than 2K pounds? Or something like that?

I agree with you, that's way better and fair price model.

IIRC, it was in a Reddit comment from their representative replying to a user who claimed they got banned recently. I think the user stated that they did use a lot of data in a month, but never explicitly stated the number of it, then the Windscribe representative claimed it was 60 PB/month. Other reports claimed the users only use 10 TB or less,s so I'm not sure the exact limit for their "unlimited" plan. I guess I'll look for other services if they keep being hush hush about it.

I can think of many reasons not to use them, but a Fair Use Policy that doesn't bother me isn't one of them.

I suppose that by now you are already trying NYM, so looking forward to your feedback. Cure53 have also recently released an audit[1] where most of NYM was audited and, in their conclusions, there's an interesting take:

---

[1]https://cure53.de/audit-report_nym.pdf (https://cure53.de/audit-report_nym.pdf)

Hello, not really, I am still using Mullvad. But I plan to do it soon enough and I 'll post in this thread, because I am curious as well.

I plan to test:

1. IVPN
2. NYM

As someone who has used IVPN in the past, their servers and customer service was great. At the time I still had to use an e-mail to register but now they've implemented a similar system to that of Mullvad (random ID generated). Pricier than Mullvad, but I also didn't face as many CAPTCHA as I sometimes face in Mullvad. They also haven't been serviced an warrant as of today[1].

---

[1]https://www.ivpn.net/resources/canary.txt (https://www.ivpn.net/resources/canary.txt)

Good! I 'll certainly keep this in mind, as I evaluate them. I admit their website captivates me, just like mullvad's website does.

The differences are in the details, but they may (or may not) be significant.

I wanna try them casually, just as I wasn't having in my mind the fact that "now I am trying something different". If I test it this way and I am good with it, then I 'll proceed with the actual feature comparison between the services.

To Mullvad users using a fiber-optic internet connection: Based on your configurations ^{[preferably those who use WireGuard protocol with Shadowsocks obfuscation (multihop and DAITA is off)]}, how drastic is the decrease in your internet speed?
^{Note: Other configurations don't work with my new internet connection.}

- I recently changed my internet provider and got a fiber connection and noticed a huge drop ^{[I did expect a drop, but not this significant (I've tried a lot of servers)]}.

• _{Without a VPN: 950 Mbps download and 250 Mbps upload on average.}
• ^{With a VPN: 70 Mbps download and 30 Mbps upload on average.}

Hi mate.

So I am on Mullvad now and my current speed is 78Mbps. My ping latency is around 50 - 70 ms.

Without the VPN, the speed is 100Mbps, but it's the max speed where my ISP limits me. The ping latency is 30 - 40 ms.

My config is: Wireguard + Auto Shadowshocks, DAITA off, Multihop off. Quantum resistance tunnel automatic. IPv4.

Thank you for the above details... I remember reading a post from one of their staff members ^{[in their subreddit]} that Mullvad doesn't limit our bandwidth, but it appears that's no longer the case ^{[I'm a long time user of Mullvad, but up until recently, I didn't have a good enough connection to fully test its limits]}.
^{- Please post an update about this stuff whenever you try IVPN or NYM.}

This depends on many factors and it's not the precise science.
You can have maximum internet speed without VPN, and totally different speed using different location in Mullvad and other VPN services.
When I was doing testing I had speed variation even in same location, that is based on server location load, ping and usage.
In theory you will get fastest speed with nearest location that has small usage.

Canaries are trust based and even if there was a warrant why would they announce it when they would lose customers? Anyway, don't base your decisions solely on a canary. But either way seems like IVPN has lowered their prices significantly. The price they have for 3 years now used to be their annual price. They were the only VPN with such superior services back in 2018 circa that time.

Now many decent VPNs have sprung up like Mullvad. Hopefully crypto adoption increases too. This is the main concern for a VPN imo.

For me, latency is the most important thing when measuring connection quality. Especially when streaming or gaming, you will notice a great difference if the latency is high.
As far as I know (like you said), you can decrease the latency if you connect to the nearest server, which is an option, but it depends on where you live; it's not always doable.

A canary is a way of saying something without saying it, so you'll still know something happened even if they're not allowed to disclose it. If they'd lie about this, they loose all the trust they have.

You have a point... A speed variation of 10% to 15% is completely normal with most VPNs and that's why I only mentioned average speeds. I spent a few days to roughly test 70% to 80% of their WireGuard servers when I posted that comment earlier in the week and even though I know Mullvad is popular, I highly doubt all of those servers were/are overloaded, so I'm ruling out that part ^{[FWIW, the servers that they rent are faster than the servers that are owned by Mullvad]} and that's why I strongly believe they've started limiting the bandwith ^{[not sure when they started doing it]}.

And I forgot to say that for speed is also depends what type of connection you are using, wireguard, IKEv2, UDP or TCP.
You can always check the status of Mullvad servers on their website, some of the servers they own and others are rented.
Other VPN services are even showing server load and health in their status pages.
https://mullvad.net/en/servers

LoyceV summed it pretty well. Do note that Mullvad has been - as far as we are let known - very transparent about search warrants to their service. Do check this[1] attempt of Swedish authorities to seize their data in 2023 and the follow-up here[2].

---

[1]https://mullvad.net/en/blog/mullvad-vpn-was-subject-to-a-search-warrant-customer-data-not-compromised (https://mullvad.net/en/blog/mullvad-vpn-was-subject-to-a-search-warrant-customer-data-not-compromised)
[2]https://mullvad.net/en/blog/update-the-swedish-authorities-answered-our-protocol-request (https://mullvad.net/en/blog/update-the-swedish-authorities-answered-our-protocol-request)

The final summary of the second article says it all, in my opinion:

This also means they're one new law away from being forced to skip the country.

Sure, but when I think about things like this, I always wonder "what could they do to avoid it?"
I mean, seriously, what can any company do to avoid government's intervention forever?

Lobby and pay (taxes), that's all they can do.

Let's see how this goes[1] - Proton CEO already said that they would leave[2] the country if this were to pass:
Public consultation was until 06/05[3], so we should see any upcoming announcement anytime during this summer (?).

---

[1]https://www.isoc.ch/swiss-surveillance-ordinance-encryption-threat-vupf-oscpt/ (https://www.isoc.ch/swiss-surveillance-ordinance-encryption-threat-vupf-oscpt/)
[2]https://www.vice.com/en/article/proton-says-it-will-leave-switzerland-if-controversial-swiss-law-passes/ (https://www.vice.com/en/article/proton-says-it-will-leave-switzerland-if-controversial-swiss-law-passes/)
[3]https://www.news.admin.ch/fr/nsb?id=103968 (https://www.news.admin.ch/fr/nsb?id=103968)

Proton already worked with authorities many times, disclosing customer emails and personal detials, I think they even contributed to people getting arrested, so yeah I don't trust anything they say.
EU and UK are making big law changes, and they are preparing for digital ID, digital wallets, CBDC and all that crap.
I am sure they will try to target VPN services and anything related with privacy  :P

This will be a bit off-topic, but on the same page as of your comment: The European Union has great upsides - they have been smashing big corporations with fees due to privacy abuse, they try to standardize a lot of technology topics and force big brands like Apple and Samsung to follow suit. However, not everything is great - their latest mass surveillance proposal is disgusting[1][2], and to add insult to the injury, they refuse[3] to share the names of the people that are behind this bill. Their reasoning[4]?:
How ironic right?

---

[1]https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/document/download/4802e306-c364-4154-835b-e986a9a49281_en?filename=Concluding%20Report%20of%20the%20HLG%20on%20access%20to%20data%20for%20effective%20law%20enforcement_en.pdf (https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/document/download/4802e306-c364-4154-835b-e986a9a49281_en?filename=Concluding%20Report%20of%20the%20HLG%20on%20access%20to%20data%20for%20effective%20law%20enforcement_en.pdf)
[2]https://edri.org/our-work/high-level-group-going-dark-outcome-a-mission-failure/ (https://edri.org/our-work/high-level-group-going-dark-outcome-a-mission-failure/)
[3]https://fragdenstaat.de/files/foi/848493/document17-participantlistfirstplenary.pdf?download (https://fragdenstaat.de/files/foi/848493/document17-participantlistfirstplenary.pdf?download)
[4]https://fragdenstaat.de/anfrage/sub-groups-working-groups-of-the-high-level-expert-group-on-access-to-data-for-effective-law-enforcement/849608/anhang/replyease2023-5384-60941_geschwaerzt.pdf (https://fragdenstaat.de/anfrage/sub-groups-working-groups-of-the-high-level-expert-group-on-access-to-data-for-effective-law-enforcement/849608/anhang/replyease2023-5384-60941_geschwaerzt.pdf)

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2025/06/27/Uu83Fv.jpeg

For anyone who is interested, NYM VPN is currently offering early bird 80% discount.
This is available for 2-year deal with $2.59 per month, and 1-year deal package for $3.65 per month.
Bitcoin, lightning, monero, litecoin mweb, L-BTC, L-USDT are available payment options, as well as other fiat options.
https://nym.com/

It's ironic how the police always ignores laws when it can. If you don't know the law, the police will disobey law. When I was a kid, I always thought that police follows laws but they always obey when possible, that's catastrophic.
By the way, it's strange that Mullvad has been operating for 14 years and 2023 was the year when their offices have been visited with a search warrant.

---

ProtonVPN is playing games with me. It offered me 55% discount on 2 years plan, then I revisited the pricing URL and it offered 70% discount. Finally, US$71.76 for 2 years, sounds good. I updated the title and the prices. Some VPNs became cheap and some became expensive. To be frank with you, I hate this marketing strategy of VPN providers, there is more than 50% sale all the time, what's the point of that? Just set original prices and stop bullshit marketing and promotions.

In my country, we have a saying that translates to "everyone is expected to know the law", but you'd have to be a lawyer to have the time to read all of them. And study them to remember them, and keep up with continuous changes and new laws. And even so, lawyers specialize in only parts of all laws. So you can't expect anyone including police to understand all details of every law.

Then ignore those companies that lure in new customers with discounts. Mullvad doesn't do it, vote with your wallet.

I agree with Loyce. It's a product afterall. The best way to show your disatisfaction is to ignore any product that you think has unfair pricing policies. In traditional investing, there is a saying that the companies who put large red arrows pointing at their investor relations section in their website should be red-flagged. It's not the same, but I want to point out that when you disagree with a pricing or financial policy, ignore it.

yeah, and add to that the bullshit list of claims they make, stuff like "our VPN will protect you from getting hacked" and "complete anonymity online" while most people turn on thier VPN and log in to their gmail.
but my favorite is the "military grade encryption", like dude, 99% of internet traffic is literally encrypted using the same military grade encryption which is just AES-256.

i think every country has a similar saying, in my country, the saying translates to "the law does not protect the ignorant".

mullvad is so underrated tbh, and they are pretty much unknown in the VPN market outside the privacy space, but that's expected. after all, they don't do paid reviews or run an affiliate program like every other VPNs. actually, i don't think i have seen a single mullvad ad before.

Police should know the law, they are called law enforcement for a reason but sadly, the government feels fine if the police abuses the law.

Of course! There is a reason why there are only two VPNs in Privacy focused cheap monthly VPNs section. I like Mullvad's business model but I'm okay with IVPN's business model too, least they have fixed sale on long-term plans and they do not offer 80% sale all the time, sales are fixed all the time and you save on long-term plans.

I think that these VPNs are more like an adware and not a thing that protects people from it. These companies play with words and try to catch new victims all the time. Those who don't know things well, easily get captivated by the combination of beautiful words.

https://talkimg.com/images/2025/07/29/UH6VuD.jpeg

I randomly downloaded Windscribe app today on my computer and I just noticed that they have an emergency connect option, which I haven't noticed on other VPN apps. It lets you to connect to an emergency server that lets you to access to Windscribe.com and buy their VPN plan. It's a very good feature to my mind because I don't like when I visit a VPN's website via my ISP IP. It's a nice feature and I think it will be good if others copy that.
By the way, I want to mention here that I hugely dislike the fact that they ask you to add your email to get additional free GBs on free plan. Privacy-focused VPN shouldn't be asking for emails to my mind.

Privacy-focused users should have spare email addresses for random registrations ;)

It's a handy feature, but from what I've read in the past, it doesn't always work in countries with heavy censorship ^{[unfortunately]}... Perhaps that's why other VPN providers aren't offering it.

BTW, just wanted to mention some of the changes:

• ExpressVPN is now offering a dedicated IP on its checkout page.
• Lowest subscription price changes:
  
  • CyberGhost = $57 (https://ghostarchive.org/archive/2rev5) for 2 years + 2 months
  • NordVPN = $81 (https://ghostarchive.org/archive/IcMFI) for 2 years
  • Surfshark = $54 (https://www.talkimg.com/images/2025/07/29/UH6DrJ.jpeg) for 2 years + 3 months

It would be too good if they would just give you free VPN for nothing. Nothing in this world doesn't comes for free, except cheese in the trap. Want some more GB - sacrifice something. After all, as said above, nobody forces you to use your main email for it.
BTW, you made good add - I wasn't aware that they have free plan. I have subscription of other service, but it's not bad to have free alternative.

So, I 've tried NYM and Mullvad.

In fact, I can't see major performance differences, except that I noticed that when I connected to distant small countries (in other continents) NYM had some additional lag, but not too much. I don't connect to small distant countries anyways.

Payment was made with crypto for both services and I had no problem at all. NYM also has a native token with which you can pay, but I wasn't interested in learning more about it.

I am an average user, so I didn't do too much research on the advanced features. For me and my family's tasks, I believe Mullvad behaved better, but again, no major differences in speed, connectivity and reliability.

It's just advertising. They know at least some people will start paying when their free trial runs out, which makes it profitable for them.
10 GB is nothing at current bandwidth cost. I've seen 100% cashbacks on 2 year VPN subscriptions, which means they must have a huge profit margin to be able to do this.

I mentioned the €1 per TB VPN before, and after seeing that offer I really wonder why other VPNs are that expensive. It means you're paying for the very few people who consume massive bandwidth on unlimited plans.

My point is that, if they promote themselves as a VPN focused on privacy, then they shouldn't be asking for email for additional GB (this feature shouldn't even be available from them).

I wrote it many times but did you try IVPN? I don't understand why you hesitate to use it :D I'm not affiliated with any of them but the reason I usually recommend IVPN is that I like their service and I like projects that they support.

I don't understand why every VPN uses the same business model. Almost every VPN offers expensive monthly plan but very cheap annual plans. Isn't it better to offer not very cheap but normal price for one month VPN instead of bullshit annual sales? I've said no to many VPNs because I needed them for a month or two and they were expensive for that, so I used either Mullvad, Windscribe or IVPN.

Haha I am sorry, you have indeed mentioned it too many times. I don't hesitate and I am just downloading it again. I used it for a couple of days in the past, gonna retry it now. I will post a feedback when I 'm done. If it's that good, I will switch from mullvad to IVPN. Let's see if they are worth your support.  ;D

I get your point and I think it's right. But they have chosen this way of marketing. In general, I'm very spectical about services which offers free VPN. Mainly because of history of services like Hola.

Doesn't it applies to every subscription based services? From things like Netflix or Spotify to VPN's or hosting. In all these services by choosing yearly plans you will save a lot. Maybe in such way they are loosing some customers who are looking for short term plans. Butfor business these users is less beneficial as it's likely thatthey will cancel subscription just after one month.

I like this in a company:
It sounds like: "a good product sells itself", and a good product doesn't lock their customers in.

Haha, I equally like Mullvad and IVPN, no need to switch if you enjoy Mullvad. I experience better speed with IVPN though.

Are you sure about that? Netflix and Spotify, both have monthly subscription model only, they don't have annual subscription. When it comes to hosting companies, there are millions of them with different style of marketing, so I don't agree with you here too. There are lots of hosting companies that don't have crazy annual deals and have a normal monthly plans and there are also those, who have expensive monthly plans and cheap annual plans. In hosting companies, it's also very common to pay as you go instead of paying upfront.

That's true!

In terms of privacy, I was not able to find any leaks with both services, but I am not an expert.

I am surprised, but IVPN much faster when I was connected to Swiss servers. The ping was almost double with Mullvad (constantly) which means I could stream much faster with IVPN.

I tested multiple servers in Europe (other than Switzerland) and I couldn't see notable differences in speed.

Did you notice any difference while watching? I would expect a slightly larger ping not to matter much, as streaming buffers data.

I recently discovered that some countries aren't monetized by Youtube. That means no ads :)
On my normal system my browser takes care of this, but on TV a VPN in Albania works like a charm. There are more countries, but I expect worse internet speeds in most of them.
If you hate ads at much as I do: try it :)

The ping was almost double all the time. It was 35ms with IVPN's server in Switzerland and 75ms for a server in the same country by Mullvad.


Cool, I didn't know that. To be honest, we have a paid subscription with Google (my wife), so the ads don't really bother us because we 're connected with her account. But definitely, your point should be important for the great majority of people.

I got that, but did it matter for streaming? Buffering 0.075 seconds shouldn't be a problem.

I refuse to pay to get rid of ads. That feels like paying for protection. For years, I was okay with ads, as I understand websites need to earn something, but "they" went completely overboard and now I'm done seeing ads. My browser has blocked millions of them, which kinda proves it's too much.

YouTube subscription offers offline viewing which for some people is very important. I am not going into personal details but primarily that’s the reason she needs it. For everything else I totally agree, I m using ad blockers everywhere.

Ok, that's my bad. I mentioned first streaming services that come to my head and I was sure that they have annual plans. But someservices do have. Like I recently tried HBO Max where by choosing annual plan you can save 16%.
In general, I agree with your arguments, I also would prefer if more VPN services would have cheap monthly plans. I'm just trying to find reasons why they don't offer it.

Did you use both of them under the exact same configuration and providers ^{[M247 and PrivateLayer]}?
^{Note: Mullvad uses four providers (including themselves (https://mullvad.net/en/servers?country=ch)) while IVPN uses two providers to offer Swiss servers.}

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work on my end when I tested an Albanian server using Mullvad ^{[perhaps IVPN has something else in the mix]}: Screenshot (https://www.talkimg.com/images/2025/08/10/US6CLz.jpeg)

That's what I mean when I say I am an average user. I used them with the default configuration, so I can't really answer your question. It's reasonable that you ask though. M247 and PrivateLayer don't really ring a bell, I hope I didn't do anything wrong.

What I did was that I just opened up the VPNs and clicked on Switzerland. It must have auto-connected to a Swiss server afterwards. I checked for leaks online and it showed I was in Zurich.

You can check the provider for each Mullvad VPN server here[1]. Switzerland specific providers are here[2] - this is where you'll see that some server providers are PrivateLayer and M247.
Tip - Whenever I used Mullvad services, I always made sure that I was connected to a Mullvad owned server, even it they were from PrivateLayer or any other provider. Just adds a extra layer of comfort from my perspective.

---

[1]https://mullvad.net/en/servers (https://mullvad.net/en/servers)
[2]https://mullvad.net/en/servers?country=ch (https://mullvad.net/en/servers?country=ch)

I'll check which Albanian server I used on TV:
I just tested several videos on Youtube: no commercials.
I don't know why it's not working for you. Just guessing here: could it be the Google account you use has a home address set?

Open a browser and go to geolocation.com (https://www.geolocation.com/)

If you see your real address there, this could be the reason. It's almost what LoyceV said above.

For example the website for me gives this because I am connected to an Italian VPN server. But, if geolocation was turned on on my computer, it would leak my real country IP.

https://talkimg.com/images/2025/08/11/USzg1l.png

You can also check for the geolocation here: https://ipleak.net/

This website will give you a good overview of possible leaks.

Thank you for the details, but it appears that both of us were using the same server with different end results ^{[I also tried the other Albanian server (al-tia-wg-001), but had no luck]}.
^{- I just finished checking my Google account, and it doesn't seem I've ever set a home address there.}

• Quote from: apogio on August 11, 2025, 06:28:08 AM
  If you see your real address there, this could be the reason. It's almost what LoyceV said above.
  ...
  This website will give you a good overview of possible leaks.
  
  Thank you for mentioning these websites, but at the moment, there aren't any leaks with my current setup.
  ^{- It looks like I have to settle on other paid options to get rid of the annoying ads.}

Let's see if anyone else can test this.

No, I mean the fact that Mullvad is based in Sweden and IVPN is based in Gibraltar, which is a dependent territory of the United Kingdom.

For me, IVPN is significantly faster when I try to connect to US servers. European servers are slightly faster but nothing gamechanger. Actually, NordVPN has been the fastest for me. I've tried all of them on gaming and NordVPN was the beast, my ping was very low there.

I found that loophole too but recently, I even see ads on such locations.

Turkish accounts solve every problem easily :D

What YouTube does is really ridiculous. Ads after ads, without a skin button. I hate to see videos on YouTube. Now I use TikTok, I mostly watch UFC fights and there are no ads and it feels so much better. I know that TikTok is bad for privacy but anyways, it is what it is :D Use a different smartphone for that when I'm at home.

On desktop or mobile I use Firefox with uBlock Origin or Brave browser for Youtube without ads.

youtube is one of the worst cases of enshittification i have seen, ever since their new CEO took over, it's only got worse.
ads are out of control (mainly to push you to buy premium), they keep updating the UI for no reason, search barely works anymore, sometimes i would look for something and get zero related results or a full page of stupid shorts or AI slop videos.

i hate to see videos on youtube too.

This is the reason why I love NYM and Mullvad VPN services, they literally don't ask you for any information for purchasing and using them.
However, it is trivial to get temp email address or alias email and use it only for that VPN purpose.

Mullvad is the better option because it is older and more mature, but I NYM have some advantages and I think it is going to be much better in future. 

Or you can use open source FreeTube app.
Youtube started adding more restrictions when adblockers are used.

This one (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.riju.freetube&hl=en)? With just 10K+ downloads, I wouldn't dare install it. I barely install apps anyway: I don't trust them.

Yes, it's open source app and it works great for desktop Linux, MacOS, wind0ws... and you wont have any ads or tracking by g00gle.
There are probably better alternatives for smartphones, something like NewPipe app is very popular last time I checked.
https://github.com/FreeTubeApp

Another nice bonus is they accepting Bitcoin donations:

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2025/08/13/USj9Wc.jpeg
https://freetubeapp.io/

Don't you watch from their app on your mobile? I really like their mobile app but I'll try your approach. On my computer, I do that but I rarely use YouTube on my PC these days. I mostly use YouTube when I'm on a long road or travelling.

I'll try NYM soon. You like it very much, so I really wonder how good the experience is.

No, you don't mean the one that he shared, that's a completely different app but the later one that you shared it the app that he needs to download. By the way, I can't read the code and can't say anything about that app, so can't suggest it to anybody.

Since there is a talk about YouTube, I'll share the app that I use on my smartphone to download youtube videos. The name of the app is YTDLnis, here is the link: https://github.com/deniscerri/ytdlnis

I feel familiar with this, even though I can't recall when I used it. I guess it's more about the yt-dlp familiarity since I used to download videos from the terminal on my Linux PC. Is ease of use the reason you use this compared to running the command through Termux or something similar? I guess it's easier to use this if you already know which video is useful for you, so you don't have to change your IP to avoid ads (if you can't use an ad blocker or were blocked by the uploader). CMIIW.

Are there any Windscribe users here who have recently tried their latest anti-fingerprinting feature to see its effectiveness? Introducing Anti-Fingerprinting: Because “Incognito” Isn’t Fooling Anyone (https://windscribe.com/blog/introducing-anti-fingerprinting/)
^{- FWIW, I have mixed feelings about using it, since it requires using an extension (I rarely trust them) while appearing to be free (making me the product) and lastly, a Reddit user mentioned getting a "slightly worse result (https://www.reddit.com/r/Windscribe/comments/1ndoarv/comment/ndw0ufl/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)"!}

I don't believe in them being a privacy-focused VPN because if they are so, then why do they offer me 10GB bandwidth per month if I enter my email? It clearly indicates that they want some statistics for marketing and for that, they offer me 10GB free monthly bandwidth. If they didn't have this offer, I would probably trust them more but this would be a psychological trick that would work on me.

By the way, that guy on Reddit said that he had a nearly-unique fingerprint and Windscribe gave him an unique fingerprint, so he doubted that Windscribe was improving things in this case.
I wonder if he cleared cookies and absolutely everythin in Browser before using Windscribe? Also, what Browser was he using?
I am no expert but I also think that it should make your fignerprint identical to other Windscribe users to protect you from identifying.

Only expert can actually tell how effective their anti-fingerprinting feature, although i expect extension can't be that effective. For those who have concern about browser fingerprint, they should consider using either Tor Browser or Mullvad Browser. Mullvad Browser is fork of Tor Browser, without using Tor connection and you can use it without touching Mullvad service at all.

There are many websites that test your browser fingerprint. I tried the first 8 I found.
The most browser-details are shown by amiunique.org/fingerprint (https://amiunique.org/fingerprint):
That's slightly disappointing, I would have hoped Tor browser settings are the same for many other users. But there are just too many browser details, from Use agent to audio formats, fonts and screen resolution that vary.

My favourite misinformation (thanks Tor browser) is shown by fingerprint.com (https://fingerprint.com/):
Note: I've never visited this site before, so I'm hiding in the crowd.

I'm aware of such website, but i expect to have some bias since people who visit their website is probably people with privacy concern. In addition, each tracker may collect different information or have different approach for fingerprinting.

Windscribe mentioned in their blog that clearing cookies has little to no impact on getting a unique fingerprint ^{[unfortunately]} and I believe he/she was using Chrome.

I just tried Mullvad browser ^{[with their VPN]} and although it showed having strong protection against some trackers, I still experienced what LoyceV did with Tor ^{[I guess a perfect solution doesn't exist yet]}.

I tried this again:
And again:
And again:
I'm not sure what changed, but it looks like it can't link my Tor browser sessions.

I would say perfect solution can't be exist. Browser these days have so many functionality, that rely on many different technology. From what i have read, technology such as Canvas and WebGL aren't designed with privacy in mind. JavaScript also can be used to identify your hardware (such as RAM capacity and total CPU thread).

There is another new VPN released recently coming directly from Tor project, and it is called Tor VPN.
This is early beta phase of this project but it is strange to me they are offering this VPN totally for free.
Downside is that you can only use it on Android smartphones for now, and it's pretty basic for now:
https://support.torproject.org/tor-vpn/

PS
Consider this VPN as experimental only.

This sounds a lot like Orbot, and the only difference I can find is that Orbot mobile doesn't seem to be created by the Tor Project (unlike Orbot, which is created by the Tor Project).

I wouldn't call it a VPN, it's just an app that uses the existing Tor network, which runs on nodes paid for by volunteers (and intelligence agencies, and data tracking companies....).

Isn’t by default that a VPN has an entity that manages the servers to which the users connect?
If that’s the case, then Tor VPN could simply what you explain above.

Both Orbot and Tor VPN allow users to select the country for their exit node. I don't think they'll let you choose your entry node.

Honestly I haven't used the new feature of Windscribe yet but I would be wary for the same reasons you've stated. Browser fingerprinting is very hard to protect against, due to the fact that dozens of variables are required to create it, including fonts, screen size, hardware quirks and even clock skew. Typically, one extension is not enough, and in some cases, it will make your fingerprint more unique rather than less so.

Tor Browser and Mullvad Browser are better for the long-term since the whole product is based on homogeneity. It looks almost the same for everyone using them, which is the opposite of what happens with a niche extension. Even then, habits like logging into personal accounts and resizing windows still need to be handled, as those can break anonymity.

They are calling it VPN, I am just a messenger, so you can send them your complains ;)

I tried testing Tor VPN in my emulator but for some reason it was not working correctly, so I can't give any real feedback, but better use this app at your own risk.
 

It should be tested in action, but I think that in the long run, it will be an ineffective tool against censorship. Of course, it all depends on the country, but it's worth noting that some censors can easily detect the list of obfs4 bridges used in Tor VPN and block them.

Fun is over for me too :( The kids are complaining about commercials, so I need a new "life hack" for Youtube without ads. Or I'll just stop watching Youtube.

Sorry to hear that... Perhaps you can use your TV to extend the display in your main or secondary PC ^{[preferably this one]} and just get a wireless keyboard with a trackpad to eliminate the need for a wireless mouse ^{[a unified remote could also work, but I prefer a keyboard more]}.
^{- BTW, Windscribe "recently posted (https://x.com/windscribecom/status/1970959441223987268)" something about YouTube ads that caught my attention and I wonder if those images are real since I've never gotten more than two ads at a time.}

@Synchronice
It appears that Surfshark is the only one on the list that isn't linked to its respective pricing page.

Or you can get a cheap Turkish account and not only get rid of ads but also get some premium features, of course if it worth for you to pay a few bucks once a year.

I've never seen so many ads on YouTube. The max that I've seen was three short video ads in a row but usually I see two ads.

Thank you for noticing that. As it seems, SurfShark increased prices and instead of €12.95, one month costs €15.45 now. The price for 27 months stays the same, I'll update the thread.

---

By the way, what do you guys think about Incogni (https://incogni.com)? It's a subscription-based personal information removal service and is a part of Nord Security company. I had no idea that such a service was available. I assume it's another bullshit service created to make more money.

That feels like paying for blackmail, I refuse to do that.
What if everyone keeps Youtube playing on a muted tab on a virtual screen? Let them pay for ads nobody sees :P

I only know them from their agressive product placements inside Youtube videos. I see no reason to ever pay more than Mullvad charges.

How about using Firefox (with uBlock Origin) or Youtube unofficial app (that block/hide ads) no longer works on your case? It still works (most of the time) for me.


I prefer not to use such service, since
1. The success rate is rather low. See https://innovation.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/Data-Defense_-Evaluating-People-Search-Site-Removal-Services-.pdf (https://innovation.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/Data-Defense_-Evaluating-People-Search-Site-Removal-Services-.pdf), page 11 table 2.
2. You need to give some of your personal data to the service provider. That means you need to seriously trust them.
3. Malicious service provider can turn such service into verifiable personal data.
4. There's a case where CEO of such service also own service that collect user personal data. Here's an example, https://krebsonsecurity.com/2024/03/ceo-of-data-privacy-company-onerep-com-founded-dozens-of-people-search-firms/ (https://krebsonsecurity.com/2024/03/ceo-of-data-privacy-company-onerep-com-founded-dozens-of-people-search-firms/).

I don't have a problem on my PC, the problem is on TV. I've tried an unofficial Youtube app, which worked shortly, until it needed an update. But installing it is such a pain, I didn't bother to do it again. Now that a VPN no longer works for this purpose, I'll stop going off-topic now about ads.

They recently stopped playing videos for me and showing some weird errors when I played them with brave browser, I guess because brave is blocking ads and they don't like it  :P
I think they started doing something similar with other browsers that use uBlock extension, but they are not affecting all users yet.
I won't be surprised if they start asking everyone for ID verification soon  ::) 

Mozilla started their own VPN service that is basically same thing as Mullvad VPN.
Some of you may remember that Mullvad also released their own fork of Firefox browser called Mullvad browser, so this cooperation is not surprising to me.
Mozilla is currently charging €4.99 per month or €59.88 for one year, but I can't find Bitcoin payment, so it doesn't make sense to choose Mozilla VPN instead of Mullvad VPN.
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/products/vpn/

I also couldn't find a direct bitcoin payment, but considering that there's also a PayPal option at checkout, users from the US can indirectly pay with their bitcoin.
^{- BTW, it appears that the monthly price you mentioned only applies when someone gets their annual subscription.}

That would defeat the point of using a VPN service if they have to know your paypal account, or if it's only limited to US customers.
I certainly don't support using paypal custodial wallet with bitcoin, or with their printed stablecoin.
Btw Paxos just printed 300 trillion PYUSD in a single transaction... so much of being ''legit'' paypal stablecoin  ::)

Oh and I found out Mozilla VPN is not even accepting paypal  :D
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1324187

I just googled "Mozilla VPN pay with Crypto" and Google showed Bitcointalk as a second result in the search and redirected me to this post, which is a very good news to my mind. By the way, Mozilla is definitely not an alternative of Mullvad and with their available payment options, I wouldn't touch them because if the person uses VPN for privacy, then PayPal and debit cards are the worst option for that. This is very strange from Mozilla.

That's definitely a joke from PayPal, the way they let us to pay with Bitcoin. You can't directly deposit Bitcoin on PayPal, you have to buy it with your card, which is ridiculous.

Try looking that via DuckDuckGo or some other browser that you don't usually use for bitcointalk and (unfortunately) it won't be the 2nd result.


I have a friend from China who used debit cards to pay for VPN to access banned sites while he is over there, and only after me explaining him how shortsighted that is, he switched to Mullvad, and started paying with bitcoin.

Only reason for paypal adding partial support for bitcoin was because they had plans all along to create their own stablecoin, and they did create PYUSD.
Now they can print near infinite amount of tokens, like it happened recently, earn percentage from that, and freeze any coins they want.

I hope he didn't buy that bitcoin with his credit card or with his kyc account, because they can certainly track that and connect it with his VPN ;)

Nah, he didn’t. He used the opportunity to buy some bitcoin anonymously while he was in the EU, so he should be fine.

Wait, isn't VPN usage illegal in China? I thought that Chinese citizens were punished for using a VPN in China and since he paid with his card for a VPN, it should be obvious that he did an illegal thing. Or is your friend from Western country? I've also heard that they don't enforce this law for foreigners. To be honest, I don't know what's actually true since China is very close, I've heard only rumors.

By the way, I've also heard that Mullvad is not a good option in China. Astrill and LetsVPN work well there AFAIK (but some say that LetsVPN banned them for downloading a big file). Do we have Chinese members on Bitcointalk? Might be a good idea to add VPNs that can be used in China.

He is Chinese, from China. Who lives between there and here (Europe).

VPNs are indeed banned in China but people are massively using them, both their citizens and foreign tourists that go there. From what I heard, communist party doesn't care that much about it (like actively hunting their citizens who might be using VPN) as long as they don't think that you are potential threat of some sort to them.

I think use of VPN is also illegal in Russian Federation if you are using it to watch government blocked websites, for example bitcointalk forum  :P
I would not be surprised at all if something similar starts happening in EU and UK soon, since they started arresting people for making social media posts, and they announced verification for accessing internet services.
They will probably allow use of their own crap VPN ''honeypots'' that gives false sense of security to customers.

According to the internet (https://x.com/cyb3rops/status/1950605566352777456), the UK Minister for Technology said this:
I don't know if he's clueless and really believes this, or simply tries to convince people to give up their last bit of online privacy.

Yes, they probably don't care about VPN usage if you are not politically active.
By the way, I would love to hear what your friend says about the difference between EU and China. Is the quality of life good in China? Do people really work as much as the media says? Chinese cities look advanced and beautiful though.

Really? Russian board is probably one of the most active board on this forum. I also have some Russian friends online who aren't tech-savvy but have access to Instagram and other social medias. I don't think that VPN usage is very restricted in Russia but I'll ask my friends about that.
UK has really gone crazy. Today they accidentally released a prisoner :D I also saw a video how a police officer arrested a UK citizen for calling Hamas a terrorist organization :D This is really crazy!