Bitcoin Forum

Was at a small shop in NYC. Rates were not great 5% on either side of the trade. But it was interesting. The ATM handles no cash. If you wanted to buy you spoke to the cashier, gave him cash and you got a receipt with a barcode that you went to the machine with the receipt scanned the barcode and then a QR code for your address and poof BTC in your wallet. To sell you went to the machine and send BTC to the address it gave you and it printed a receipt that you brought to the cashier. Who could then make a judgement call as to wait for a certain number of conformations or just hand you the cash.

I heard mention of them a few years ago, never saw one before.

I think the name of the place was Superior convenience (or close to it) somewhere on Manhattan Ave in the 130s. Was wet and cold and just ran in for a cup of coffee and saw the BATM.

-Dave

This is so so nice. I haven't tried yet but it seems very interesting to me. As far as I know, BATM is fully centralized, did it ask for any phone number or KYC documents from you while you using it? I did not use Bitcoin ATM due to my personal anonymity,
Your description does not specify anything about using phone numbers or KYC. Can you kindly inform me a little bit about this since you have witnessed it first hand?

The sign on the machine said Valid ID needed for all transactions, max $1000 / day. *BUT* it not ask me for anything. I don't know if it's up to the cashier or some other limit or thing. I just did $20 out and $50 in to play with it.
The 5% each way was just too much to do more. And the coffee sucked so I was not sticking around.
Will be back in the area after the new year so if nobody else gets there I will check again then.

-Dave

Ehh I really don't see how it's a nice thing. It just adds unnecessary steps for most peeps, with the only positive advantage is that new users of the ATM has a customer support ready by default.

This is so cool. I really wish I can see one myself. I will be very interesting to see how these can change a lot of things in the crypto space.

I on the other hand... like the idea ...and I think we need innovation of any kind to push adoption. The cashier, if well trained... will be a asset to Bitcoin adoption and it will even be better if they accepted Bitcoin as a payment option.  ;)

The barrier to entry for Bitcoin adoption in 3rd world countries are education and a educated cashier in a scenario like this, will put bitcoins in the hands of even uneducated people or older people that might struggle with the technology.  ;)

It's certainly great to see more uptake of this and have it accessible to a wider range of people, but it certainly feels like quite a clunky setup. I doubt many shops carry a lot of cash to prevent themselves getting robbed, so there must be fairly low inputs and outputs that they can allow for the machine. It's a bit of a pain that it requires input from a third party (the cashier) who is required to validate a step and this might put a few buyers off. Last of all the time it takes to confirm might also vary and unless the miner fee is set quite high then a customer might have to wait around a long time for the transaction to confirm or the business might actually be unaware and put itself at risk if they don't want for adequate confirmations.

I'm yet to see a BATM, it will be something exciting that i look forward to. Would have loved to say that we will be seeing BATM's in my country, but i doubt that it will be soon, my government is still busy discouraging cryptocurrency adoption and use and clamping down on young people associated with cryptocurrency. Hopefully things will change in the near future.

That's interesting. Something good to know.

I suppose we're still a little away from cutting out the middle men but for an ATM with the idea to become adopted by the non-tech savvy people is still a good option. I hope the queue is not putting people off from transacting BTC. Though, I suppose we ought to respect the progress ;D

I suppose that this is just to attract the random "John Doe's" that hear about BTC and want to say that they somehow also have BTC of their own. Even being capped at $100/day I wouldn't feel at rest by just going to a cashier and asking him/her to give me the equivalent in BTC - I just think that it would open myself to being a target.

On a curious note, would this[1] be the shop @DaveF? I've searched around Manhattan Avenue and this is the closest one available. If not, I suppose you could submit[2] the location to their website.

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[1]https://coinatmradar.com/bitcoin_atm/574/bitcoin-atm-cryptocurrency-atm-harlem-apollo-deli-fruit/ (https://coinatmradar.com/bitcoin_atm/574/bitcoin-atm-cryptocurrency-atm-harlem-apollo-deli-fruit/)
[2]https://coinatmradar.com/submit/ (https://coinatmradar.com/submit/)

Nice idea, I guess it will be lessen the stolen of bitcoin ATMs, in some way. (another incident (https://www.reuters.com/world/thieves-rip-bitcoin-atm-barcelona-crypto-store-2021-11-12/) happened in barcelona just this month)

Regardless the fees I guess I will still be excited using it even just once if there's available nearby.

That was not it, I don't see it listed at all, I don't have the exact address it was raining and still dark out. I just kind of ducked into the 1st place I saw open that had coffee. It was probably after the change from Manhattan Ave to St Nicholas Ave. Still think it was in the 130s but could have been high 120s to low 140s. I was walking for a while at that point and not really paying attention since I knew it was going to be a long, cold, wet, walk.



So long as there is 1 conf you are usually good to go. But it does give them a bit of play. No RBF and a high enough fee and a small enough amount then you can give the person his cash and let them leave. RBF and low fee, sorry buy another cup of our bad coffee and wait...

It was an unbranded machine. No logos or anything, but it looked well built. So I don't know if it was a custom built thing or a new unit that I have not seen yet or something else.

-Dave

Ideally, this is not what we are expecting of a BATM should be however since we are still in the pioneering adoption stage of cryptocurrency this kind of a set-up can still be acceptable. At least, a user can easily deal with any problem because there is someone who can assist him. I am sure that eventually, the system will be gradually changed into like a real ATM we see around. I am just wondering if this outlet is making some good amount of transactions with the machine or if it is already a good business to deal with...

An ATM with human intervention seems to defeat the purpose of an ATM, but if it eliminates the need to wait for minutes in order to finish a transaction, then perhaps it is justified, somewhat. Most bitcoin ATMs I've come across operate like a normal ATM, though with a higher fee (7% on either trade) and only require 1 confirmation before the trade is a done deal. Never tried one though, as I don't think the rates are even justified even though it provided some form of convenience.

It is good for the new users. Apart from this it is a nice way that anyone who doesn't have much of technical knowledge can also buy with ease. With the mentioned location, almost everyone are good with technology. With third world countries or over the rural areas of a country these way of support for bitcoin buying and selling will increase adoption.

Its so cool to see this interesting development of crypto space. As a matter of fact it is long term dream coming true where you can cash out your crypto assets only by using your mobile device and and bar code. I wish I could see these ATMs in every major street of every country. I joined crypto space back in 2017 when we saw Bitcoin being discussed in all main stream media and Bitcoin saw 20K price though later it fell down to around 3K but this is normal when you look at history of Bitocin which bounces back even stronger than it falls down.

I have personally not used it as there are not any on my side also about which i feel sad and also want to explore the usage of bitcoin ATM and feel happy when members share their experience about using it and i suppose there are hundreds of ATM's set up across US and you could find them on gas stations as well which is nice thing to see but really hope the adoption is everywhere and we also get the same chance maybe soon.

That is just beginning because sooner or later, many more BATM will install in many places that can give an easiness for people who wants to try to buy and sell bitcoin to fiat or vice versa. It will grow for more if the government supports and help to search for the strategies places to install that machine so it will help people have bitcoin without going too far from their home. But if we want to buy or sell bitcoin in a large amount, we should use the other way to attract the bad guy to play with their trick.

This is the first time I've heard of such an ATM, and I have to admit it makes sense because there is customer support in the form of a live person who can help if needed. However, I was positively surprised that the fee is only 5%, considering that crypto ATMs usually have a higher fee, and here we also have the cost of a person working as a cashier.

Still, wouldn't it be easier if instead of an ATM, the cashier had a simple monitor through which transactions would be performed using QR codes?

Depends on where you're from because if you're from a different place, there's a possibility that bitcoin isn't that prominent in that place like in my country of Philippines, there's not a lot of people who knows about crypto here besides Axie Infinity due to the rise of its popularity this few months, change will definitely come although the pace for each country will be different.

it's very cool and the fee is not that big. I hope someday I can use BATM even if it's just to gain experience. in my country it seems like it will be difficult to find BATM because until now there are still many people who do not understand bitcoin here.

It's always good to hear about more bitcoin ATMs being operated globally. I have always wanted to use a bitcoin ATM but sadly my country doesn't have one.
This made me think what if I had a bitcoin ATM. How would I make profits from operating a bitcoin ATM ?
Even if charged 5% for both incoming and outgoing transactions how would I be able to make enough profits to pay the rent and still saving some coins.
Unless and until we don't have our own space to operate an ATM it will be tough to get profits from a Bitcoin ATM.

Guess it really depends on use. At the moment with the dip BTC is at $54,000.
If you are moving .1BTC through it a week that is $5400
Even if you are just selling that is still 5% of $5400 or $270 a week $14,000 a year.

Depending on where you live that could be a lot of money or put you well below the poverty line.

-Dave

Given that the number of crypto ATMs is constantly growing, you should have no doubt that this business is quite profitable, but not anywhere in the world. Most of these devices are located in the US and Canada, and there is certainly a good reason for that - people are familiar with cryptocurrencies and there is a demand for such a service. Depending on the country and location, they say that the ATM can pay off within 3-6 months, but of course, it also depends on what kind of device you will buy, because there are those that cost $5000+, but also simple ones that cost less than $1000.

You have a lot of examples where it is explained how to start this business and how to make money, here (https://atmmachines.com/2021/08/30/is-owning-a-bitcoin-atm-profitable/) is one example.

So, unlike with the last couple of steps when you try to sell, this one doesn't print a receipt "after" sending you the amount! If it was offering such a thing, you could've left the store without having to wait for a confirmation.
^{- Apart from that, it looks like it's just missing lightning support to tackle the issues with waiting times.}

Out of curiosity, did the cashier make you wait for that amount?

It's probably a prototype but I do like this version more, as opposed to the original one ^{[I like the interaction]}!

No, but the mempool was empty and a had a 2 sat/b fee.
I don't know what the webpage he was looking at showed but he just took the receipt and scanned it in and handed me 20 singles.
This was after I had given him 2 twenties and a ten for the $50 I put in. So I took that as a hint that he really did not want to talk about it.

-Dave

Crazy hnn! While reading your experience I was like imagining the whole picture in front of me, like I was there itself. It’s so cool to have these machines around giving that very feeling of bitcoin existence around the globe. I mean it’s like the portal to feel the bitcoin you know?

Because everyday I come to forum or read an article somewhere I’m just like it’s usual day with bitcoin in all virtual or text format, no way to feel it. But when you physically visit the store, make actions like pressing few buttons, printing slips, exchanging money, yeah that alerts your senses we are having something real here.

Just wish that bitcoin becomes the normal thing of everyday life forever. Don’t wanna miss it.

is that necessary that you need to ask the cashier first and do some stuff in order to cash in, cash out or unless if you want to buy something within the store? Because you know i will pay cash instead of bitcoin.. But first i want to experience the machine on my own how does it feels. :D its a best experience i guess wherein very smooth withdrawal.. Lol i hope someone provides such ATM here in my place because it will be great for sure.

Hey DaveF. Could you return and ask to make a pic maybe? Curious actually. And the training you'd need to do for that sounds a bit more than regular. Seems ripe for someone to come and take advantage of a careless employee.

Maybe a bit off-topic, but just saw the new South Park special and people were all accepting only Bitcoin, though the insinuation was less than savoury (fly-by-night MLM ponzi, which of course, is ironic given the setting was 40 years into the future, making Bitcoin 50 years old and ill-fitting for the fly by night label heh).

Why would people use such physical instruments for a higher fee? Where exchanges deduct a maximum of 3% and 1% fee for VIP users, paying a 5% fee is very exorbitant. No one will use such physical services unless they are in a critical situation. And for a high amount of bitcoin buying/selling, it seems very risky that I have to provide information about my purchase to the cashier.

As I posted above I'll be back in the area after the new year, I'll do it then. If for some off reason I am there before I'll do it then.

Biggest issue is I have to do most of the walk again since I started walking at Manhattan Ave & 101st and ended where St. Nicholas crosses Amsterdam. Which is probably 3+ miles. I really really think that it was 130s and I know it was before the Dunkin Donuts at 155th where I got a cup of coffee that didn't suck.
Beyond that I can really been off. so while I think it was in the 130s, as I said above it could been in the 120s to the 140s. And since I am a paranoid idiot, I have the GPS tracking off on my phone so I can't even look back as to where I stopped for 15 minutes.

-Dave

No rush. I'll remember to check back as always curious. I've been waiting over a year now for BATMs to return to my neighbourhood. They took them down around the time first round of Covid was coming, the speculation from me (and a little from shopowners I spoke to) was that they were going to update the machines to make them AMLD5 compliant. It's been 18 months or so since. Not sure if they've returned or are still in the major cities locations though I know even the one at the airport (a major hub in Europe too) hasn't returned.  

Your comment: Sounds like me every time I take a walk in a new area and find an interesting location, I put off actually writing the details down and try to return some days/weeks later... only to find my memory isn't as excellent as I believe. Cities are the worse for me, every big city with decent planning and structured streets seems identical to me.

At least in this ATM cash "works" in two directions, while most of ATMs allow you only to buy Bitcoin. I think for most people, 5% trading fee is acceptable, as lots of people dont trade huge amount and dont really think how much they spend on fees :)

Dont know how much is it cost to cash-out crypto in your country, but in my, it is about 3-10% and you have to arrange a meeting with "exchanger" before. Basically all the exchange looks: you text with a guy, you both agree on a deal, he or his colleague (sometimes he comes with a guard) drives to you or to a place, you sit in their car, make transaction by pc/phone, wait for few confirmations, and they give you cash out sports bag. This might look funny, like a movie, or a gangster stereotype. But that is how crypto or legal person turn company funds into cash in my country. (that scheme does not refer to hundreds-million deals)

But with such hybrid ATM, I can skip all that gangster steps and just use printed receipt. This is way more convenient and safe.