Bitcoin Forum

Wouldnt it be great for the holdlers if you could earn interest on your bitcoin and not give up your keys? So ive heard of this new thing from some other guy
called Atomic finance that just does exactly that. Sounds interesting.  The way crypto is always evolving i bet its just a matter of time before we can safetly earn interest on bitcoin but i am no expert on this. Does anyone here know of any upcoming projects like atomic finance that are doing exactly that?

I don't think it is possible. How would you be able to let someone else spend your bitcoins without the private key?

Read a bit more about that project, and it didn't seem amazing (https://atomic.finance/blog/nov-dec-21-update/):



I prefer to keep my bitcoin in my own cold storage. They don't disappear there.

I am not familiar with how Atomic Finance work. How are they related to Atom Finance? Or Atomic Financial? It seems there are a handful of them using almost similar names.

Anyway, if this is true, it is like a giveaway, unless in lieu of giving up your keys, you are either giving up your Bitcoin or you are asked to deposit them in their wallet or perhaps connect your wallet to their app or whatever.

My question is that, how could they earn if they are leaving the Bitcoin of their clients untouched and are simply giving away interest? There must be a catch somewhere. I, therefore, have reservations.

I don't think this is actually possible without losing access to your coins or your keys. Sure you can earn interest on bitcoin without giving up your keys. You just have to send your bitcoins to the receiving person and hope that he returns it to you with profit. You still have your keys with you, but not your bitcoin. Didn't hear anything about Atomic Finance. How are they going to let you earn interest in bitcoin without them holding your coins or you giving away your coins?

It only works on altcoins such as staking but not on BTC. Examples of this are Blockfi and the likes which you will have to deposit the BTC to them. It's not secure but it serves good for those who trusted that 3rd party because they enjoyed the earnings so far.

There are some of them that you deposit BTC but only earn thier own token like that Celsius network. So when your goal is to earn BTC, you'd have to use the CEL token to buy BTC.

One will give you interest on your money only if - in a way or another - he can earn something from that. Since Bitcoin doesn't allow staking, I don't see any ways one can earn from those bitcoins without having access to your funds - usually with you sending the money to the custodial platform. At that point you own ... an account. No "for your eyes only" private keys.

So no, this cannot work on Bitcoin.


And.. from what @nullama has posted, the amount of money can decrease. This means:
1. They do have full access to the funds.
2. OP needs to improve his understanding over how Bitcoin works, else he may - sooner or later - get scammed by this kind of "wonderful" offers.

Why did they describe those amounts that were deposited as invested and not money that was kept? If you own the private key, this means that you own it, not invest it.
In general, it seems that the model is similar to trading in stock exchanges, where losses are stopped when a certain percentage exceeds, for example, 10% and so on, but in general, the phrase “without giving up your keys” is not accurate.

in my view the interest from a bitcoin,,only by storing bitcoin and when the price rises it is the interest from our results after holding our assets until we get more profits.
And that's my understanding so far.

Just another scammy project claiming to be full decentralized and non-custodial which make people thought his coins will safe, while the truth it's just centralized and have control over your coins.

Take a look of so called multi coin wallet (e.g. freewallet) while the truth it's centralized exchanges and doesn't give you private key.

It is like feature from DeFi and I think we have some DeFi for Bitcoin. I know some DeFi for Bitcoin.
Sovryn: https://www.sovryn.app/
MintLayer: https://www.mintlayer.org/
You have controls of your private keys and your Bitcoin and in theory you are safe.

AFAIK with sovryn you are swapping BTC for some random token called SOV, and they put that into some smart contract. Doesn't seem amazing to me.

AFAIK with mintlayer you are swapping BTC for some random token called MLT, and they put that into some smart contract. Doesn't seem amazing to me.

It seems to be some kind of app you will have to install and use which will apparently put your BTC into a financial product they call as "covered calls". I am familiar with options but have no idea about covered calls.

These have been implemented using DLC (Discrete log contracts), which apparently enable smart-contract like or similar capabilities. (And why haven't we heard about this more in the forum is another thing).

Whatever the idea is, the fact that you install an "app" that manages your BTC just means that you are trusting the application and it will of course use your keys at some point in time. This is the same idea implemented by apps like Binance where you can "store" your BTC and they will allow you to earn yield. The blog is also unclear about where the "yield" comes from.

Don't know about mintlayer but Sovry has been a sore disappointment till now. Of course a lot of early people made money when SOV pumped but that is about it. They are just another smart-contract platform and I have no idea why they want to show themselves as different from Ethereum. Its really the same thing with much worse UI/ UX. And to think that they got almost 200-300 BTC raised.

I hope it is not related to the Atomic wallet because they use almost a similar logo. Maybe those apps is a wallet with earn interest feature like Atomic wallet. As far as I know, storing bitcoin in a personal wallet without earning interest is enough because we know bitcoin prices will increase in the future. I do not think that will help you earn decent interest because that will relate to how many bitcoins you will use.

If you want to earn interest, you can use Binance as in that exchange, you can stake your bitcoin and receive interest from your bitcoin.

I don't even get it that how this is possible.
I mean it's possible that you might give your bitcoin to anyone so that they could earn from it by investing it and would be able to gain profit from it. In this way the coins are safe at their place if the person you are giving it to is reliable and you are in profit.
But as they are saying it as I cannot understand what would be the strategy they would be using for it.

The closest thing is to use WBTC on DeFi, whereas you're swapping your BTC for WBTC on exchanges, and use the WBTC on platforms that provide yield on Ethereum. Obviously though, while you technically control the keys(to the WBTC, not BTC), WBTC is essentially an IOU; whereas it doesn't inherit the security and decentralization of Bitcoin(the network).

I have never heard of Atomic Financial. There are some altcoin projects where you can stake wrapped BTC, but these options are not entirely safe since you have to give them approval to spend your money, and whoever controls the smart contract is able to drain everything from your wallet.

It's possible if she's talking about non-custodial Bitcoin lending and trading platform or DeFi BTC lending ecosystem but the major problem is that most of the platforms that offer this service don't deal with the real Bitcoin because of what they accept is wBTC etc. But if we have people who are interested in this service I will recommend the use of Sovryn.

I’m still trying to imagine how that’s going to be possible. For you to be able to earn interest from any business or asset at all, you will have to have invested it in something – take for example, when you invest your money on a platform or company, the company does business with your money to be able to pay you the interest.

The interest doesn’t come magically, they have to do business with it and generate income and then pay you interest. Now talking about cryptocurrency when you have the keys, it means that no one has access to your coins, and if they don’t have access to your coins, how then will they be able to get you the interest you are looking for? So, if any business is claiming that you will get interest without giving up your keys, then I am sorry to say it’s all lies.

I don't know how that works and even simple staking gives you the exchanges to control your funds as it was deposited to them.
"Not your keys, not you Bitcoin" I simply just think this.

You are trying to play safe and earn more but that is not the thing in crypto, it all corresponds to risk while earning. But as long as you don't mismanage your fund and mishandle your keys, that gonna be fine. You probably not be thinking of earning interest without giving up your keys as people won't make a deal without their security as well, so they are asking for it actually.

here's an example from their blog:

The expiry is in 10 days.
The strike price is $60k.
The premium is .0011 BTC, or approximately 4% APY.

So if you have an entire bitcoin and really need $6 per day of taxable income, this might be something to look into. In 10 days you would have made $60. for putting an entire bitcoin up as collateral. into a multisig contract. they have some kind of price oracle that they feed information to that helps decide the outcome of these covered calls. covered calls are a standard tool in stock market trading by the way. ;D

You can not keep your Bitcoin or any coin in an airgapped wallet and earn interests. If you want to earn interest, your coins must have some sort of roles and you have to accept risk and interest you get in return.

If you want something totally safe, ok it is airgapped wallet, and forget about interest.

That sounds too good to be true ;D
I wonder if that website really gives that percentage and gives a big profit for their members since many websites are doing the same but in the end, they are just scamming people.
It is almost the same as Ponzi or HYIP or whatever its name so there is no real guarantee for you to make that profit.
If I were you, I would try the other way to earn money and not just put my money into a website and let them run my money.

Bitcoin doesn't have a smart contract facility so you can't lock your bitcoin in a contract. So I am really not sure what Atomic is trying to do. I could not find a lot of information in their blog as well. They have mentioned something about "discreet log contract" but didn't explain in details.

At a glance, it looks like a geberic program who usually try to scam. But unless and until they launch and let the market know about their product, it's incorrect to jump to a conclusion.

This isn't exactly "without giving up your keys". Depending on the implementation of the contract, you could be scammed or hacked. Lightning Network also uses multisig, and there's a very complex mechanism for ensuring that one party doesn't just drain all the balance of the multisig contract. Without something like that, this decentralized lending would be way too risky.

of course it's not. you have to transfer your btc to a multisig address. that's how discreet log contracts work.


They don't have to. DLCs are explained elsewhere.


what about it sounds too good to be true?


right but theoretically, discreet log contracts eliminate counterparty risk.

why someone would get excited about making $6 per day (for 10 days) of taxable income while limiting their upside potential on their 1 btc is kind of hard to understand though. plus it will cost them probably at least $6 to transfer into the DLC and another $6 to transfer out of it. bitcoin transaction fees being what they are... plus of course you would run the risk that the entire thing just doesn't work and your btc gets stuck in a contract you can't get it out of. i guess that kind of thing can happen but its probably low probability.

yhup and the best question for that also is if its safe and totally legit, because without such thing it's like a joke.. I mean yeah like what you said how to manage it or spend it if you don't have the keys.?   :D you invest a lot of efforts and time on it at the same time but you don't have the keys. So it's not good.

I don't know of Atomic finance, I understand you can safely own your bitcoin offchain and Defi it. Most available just require you provide liquidity with your bitcoin and this comes with impermanent loss. People don't want to lose their bitcoin against a stable coin or a very volatile altcoin. I once saw a news flash that STACKS (STX) was working on bitcoin smartcontract, this is why I refuse selling the few I got from airdrop.

I don't think it is possible. But some cases or alts they give airdrops just holding coins. But in bitcoin I don't know. They solely earn base on interest and how would they earn if they don't make use of your bitcoin and make them grow. So either you send your BTC to their wallet and stake it or you hold it and wait for it to increase in value.

To HOLD was just meant for OP, nothing else. And since you were afraid to take risks, I guess, this crypto is not suitable for you then as even just holding alone is still risky.

Never ever seen Bitcoin offering such a thing as well. Some people got staking, lending services but all of of these are need keys, it gonna be out of our control and it wasn't safe anymore. OP never look into this thing and it was sad to say that he was not able to find a way to earn BTC without giving up his keys.

I prefer to hold my bitcoin than send it to a website that I do not know for sure because I heard many bad stories about scamming website that offers people to invest with their services. If those services from that website have many good reviews from the members, I do not want to risk many satoshis on that website. If @OP still wants to try or already invest in that site, we need to wait for his interest to know that the site is really paid or will not pay.

OP, run a routing node for the Lightning Network. Earn a little Bitcoins through fees. It requires some technical skills and research, but there are people like Rath_ who can help you. Ask your questions in this topic, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5158920.0