Bitcoin Forum

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5321507
There are more instances of this behavior.

I don't think it's the best use of Merit, but it certainly isn't the worst I've seen.

Consider this:
(click (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5050263.msg47119519#msg47119519) for full context)

What accusation do you have here?

I visited that thread and used Search with keyword is Merit. Honestly, I did not find any word in that OP which contains merit word. No merit give away is mentioned in that OP. Did I miss any rule related to merit in that thread?

Additionally, a merit source has smerits from two sources: (1) from merit source allocation; (2) from earned merits. You can not differentiate what is source of smerit used by a merit source. krogothmanhattan is not a member who readily to abuse merit source for his business I think. He made his name and his business long before the merit system kick-off.

If it is used from merit source, it's bad because it does not stick to original idea of merit system, to highlight quality post with merit.
If it is used from my earned merit, it's not bad at all. It's my own earned merits and I have freedom to use it.

I don't think there's a written rule of it being illegal, but yea if I was the merit source, I probably wouldn't dump merit on the project thread to prevent conflict of interest. With that said, it really isn't "bad" as far as I know; just not something I'd personally do especially if it's a good amount of merits.

Many of those posts aren't something I would personally merit, but merit source or not, he has the right to use his allocation anyway he sees fit. What merit sources are not allowed to is to sell their merits. If he feels like meriting those who like his project or say good things about it, that's his choice.

This dude has given a lot to the community. Researching why he is giving this or that member a merit or two isn't something I would worry about.

I think that's not a problem if he/she give his sMerits to those who like his/her projects then it's gonna be fine unless what's Pmalek said above that if he/she sells his sMerits and then that's prohibited. But if he/she give merits by his/her own will then we can not blame him cause that is his sMerits, he owns that.

Thanks @LoyceV for this.
It is obvious @Theymos isn't much concerned about how a merit source uses his allocated merit. The most important thing is that let the merit serve its purpose of ensuring quality.
I was wondering why some merits sources would rather not distribute 2 merits to 25 people making it 50merits. But will give 1 person the 50merits. Theymos supports this, in as much as it is a quality post.

---

An ordinary user can give such a parallel merits without being questioned. So, I don't think that him being a merit source has made him lose the right of a common user.

I can understand your concerns, but it will be twofold:

 - Bump the topic: A lot of people will reply to get Merits, so that topic will be first.
 - False reviews: If you can prove it, it is like selling merits for a positive feedback, which is a behaviour that deserves a negative trust.

Therefore, you need to prove that Merit source use Merits (indirect selling) to get positive feedback

Full disclosure I have had may dealings with the person who is discussed in the 1st post.


Context matters a lot.
I have seen them FREQUENTLY merit posts in the collectibles section with a lot of merit. So posts in that section are in general are going to get a lot of merit from them.
So looking at it that way, it's not a big deal.

If they created an altcoin mining project and started giving merit in there, it might look a bit different since as far as I can see they never merit in that section and never post in that section so although it would be 100% acceptable to do it, the 'optics' so to speak would be bad.

-Dave

There's a possibility that the instances that you brought up will occur due to the importance of merit to rank up user but take consideration that to become a merit source, You should qualify on theymos requirements which is very hard and only few got accepted so far. So there's a low chance that a merit source will do this BS things.

Your example is not an abused since he is just rewarding a merit to the user that he thinks contributes to his collection thread and he is not shilling at all. I don't think so that Krogoth is a merit source since he didn't apply for it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Agreed.  I've created threads in which I've given out a lot of merits to people who've replied, and not necessarily because they liked my post(s), but doing that in a thread where you're selling something has an air of ickiness about it if you're a merit source.  

While it's true that there are source sMerits and personal ones, if you're a source you're always dipping into your source sMerits first.  It might be a small matter, but when you merit posts like these it's questionable whether the source is using good judgement as far as merit-sending:

https://i.imgur.com/lZV67KZ.png

In krogothmanhattan's defense, though, it isn't a ton of merits we're talking about and he might have a lot of earned sMerits at his disposal to cover all of the posts like that.  And though I don't follow the Collectibles section, I don't think he's in the habit of giving out merits frivolously.  In any case, if Theymos thinks it's a problem it's his call to do something about it (which I don't think it is, and I don't think Theymos will).

krogothmanhattan does not merit just their posts in that board if you look at their sent history they seem to like to merit anything related to the collectibles board. If is not the best use of merit especially as a merit source but I think it is unfair to accuse them of shilling their own project by giving merit probably trying to show their gratitude without posting thank you posts because they would be removed by the mods. I think krogothmanhattan should probably think about stopping meriting these types of posts but I do not think its abuse or shilling but trying to show gratitude without breaking forum rules.

The amount of merits is not a lot when compared to the amount sent on the forum site wide but comparing krogothmanhattan's recent merit spending habits it is a lot compared to their merit sent because they do not seem very active in sending merits but they do send higher amounts of merit 5/10/15 more regularly than other people I have seen do but krogothmanhattan only sends 1 merit for these posts which probably do not amount to anything more than 10% of their total merit expenditure.

You are wrong. According to bpip stats (https://bpip.org/Profile?id=1000199), he has received 1854 merits while has sent 5427 merits which prove he is a merit source. It's not necessary for everyone to apply for a merit source. There were some users given merit sources at the beginning of the merit system and if he didn't have applied for merit sources, I think he is from the initial batch.

https://i.ibb.co/kM9yxPZ/Capture.png

I believe this op is somebody alt using to attack, after reading your comments i went to read through the link op drop and i could not see something interrelated like merit, the only thing i come across is a stamp design.
I believe that you are of good point, because op is channeling the point of allegations to merit abuse which is not true from what i have seen so far from the link op drop, you are right mate from your observations

People realize that Merit is worthless right?  There are better more productive things to be doing with your time then worrying about how someone sends out a useless...I was going to say token but it isn't even that. 

My advice is for people to spend more time worrying about how they can do good and less time worrying about others doing bad.  Bad behavior, scams, trolling, aren't punished here anyway so...  Merit/trust abusers and trolls will always exist here.  The system is setup for them to thrive in groups.  Don't bitch about the symptoms though, bitch about the cause or contribute a solution.

Yes they can. However, they risk their position of being merit sources. Does it really worth trying? The only rule for the merit sources is that they're forbidden to sell them. But, on a second thought, using them this way is more or less the same thing.

Both are sold, both are centralized. Sorry, but I could not get a hold of myself. :P

I didn't know krogothmanhattan but I see he has impressive feedback.

Yes it is true that some merited posts clearly look like shitposts like "great project!" style you see in the alt section, such as these:



I'm not saying that you can't reply in a forum sincerely to say these things but precisely in this forum posts of this style are not well seen....

I would not give it more importance because it is just one merit per post, and besides I see that there is something that has not been mentioned: krogothmanhattan gave merit to the first replies but did not give any merit to the replies from March 5. So, it's not the case that he is giving merits to everybody who replies in order to keep his thread getting bumped.

The difference with the "great project" bump spammers is that, judging by their feedback, those users really mean it and really buy such items. The Collectibles board can't be compared with the altcoin spammers.

I see Krogoth only spends her activities on the goods and collectibles boards. No matter how she has become a source of merit, if Theymos assigns the responsibility it means that he wants merit to be well distributed across that board. And (perhaps) selectively, Krogoth is the one who can distribute it without a doubt.

And besides, I'm sure the average collectors on that board including krogoth, don't care about ranking up or weekly post quotas.

krogothmanhattan has so far not responded in this thread. Not that he really needs to do that. It's not an accusation, and even if it was, he has no reason to justify his actions because he isn't doing anything bad. Since he might not even be aware of the existence of this thread, I will PM him a link to it so that he can say something if he feels like doing that.

Yeah, i don't think if  krogothmanhattan merits every post in that thread, it will gonna financially harm anyone. The only negative thing which i see is that some merit hunters might write something good about those collectibles in order to collect merit only but then everyone can get merits by giving the greetings at  Merry Christmas to the Forum  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5088731.msg48848003#msg48848003)
We should not make things complex anyways  :)

https://talkimg.com/images/2023/11/12/txUUv.jpeg
 ;D :D ;D

So krogothmanhattan hasn't said anything here. But his response to the question why he is giving merits in his own thread to people who support him and say nice things about his service was to give merits to people who spoke about him giving merits in his thread. Legendary!

He has merits to speak for him.  :)

Merited posts aren't really merit-worthy anyway, at least not for me as a merit source. On the other hand, I will not consider merit abuse as well. It's not a big deal really. If merit sources aren't selling merit, then let them spread merits. At least merit circulation will increase. If the sent merit amount is big then it would be a different case. But here just don't be too strict since the admin isn't too strict regarding merit distribution.

I wouldn't take that as an accusation of abuse of merit by merit source, but sometimes it's also not the best way to spend some of the merit he has. krogothmanhattan sends 1 merit per user post regardless of whether they like it or not about his business. 90% of the merit recipients are users of good repute who may have been involved in many successful trades on this forum before.

So if you're asking if it's abuse of merit then I think you still need to review the goodwill of krogothmanhattan who sent the service to any user who replies before March 4th.

krogothmanhattan seems to be aware of the existence of this thread, he started posting 1 merit for some users above even though he didn't say anything.

Edit.
You are faster than me.  :D

It's not a big deal if it is your self-earned merits, not sourced merits. And if the purposes of give smerits away are not related to unofficially require people to say all good things about your business.

It might not be merit selling or exchange but as I said above, if it is like an unofficial give away to attract members and force them to say good compliment to shill your service, it is something wrong. Fortunately, in this case, I don't see that intention.

It is easy to realize that because such shady intention will catch a lot of newbie accounts join the party. Moreover, if compliments are over-exaggerated about a service, like it is a best on the forum while in fact we know it is not. It would be signal of something wrong.

All of them are not found in this case. So, the accusation (if it is) is inaccurate.

Are we seeing something wrong here? ^{[not visible].}

1 merit does not mean anything in the circulation of merit so maybe @krogothmanhattan is not to blame. Sending some merit to the user in the thread it create is something I've done before. That's the most appropriate way to respect other people's opinions but still based on the quality of the posts made. In the case of krog I think he needs to pay attention to the quality of the post before sending the reward, but when he wants to gift someone then I think there is nothing wrong. I'm sure he did it outside the business he owns.

Some minutes the user krogothmanhattan was online and is known that he has over sea the response of any body, pm the user you mention is good again because every thing discussed is aware of it, i noticed the he was online few minutes after when i received merit from him in this thread, and that is telling us that is seeing every thing over here, but i don't know if you have pm him already that motivates him to come online

I PMed him like I said he would. I am sure he read the PM and saw the link in it. Otherwise, he wouldn't have distributed all those merits in this thread. He probably doesn't think this is even something worth discussing.
Honestly, OP should just lock the thread. @FunctionalFedora lock it up!

This is just a sad combination of words that resemble meaningful sentence-like structures.

I don't find its an abuse even they can have their merit giveaway threads and pour merits for whatever reasons as long as it deserves but I remember when a merit source gave tons of merits just for fun in WO he has been removed from merit source snd also the merits were reversed if I am not wrong.

Abuse merit can be done because the merit system is not moderated. But when merit source provide a large number of merit just for fun, then theymos should consider removing it simply because it doesn't suit the purpose of the merit system. I also don't agree with this accusation, because I don't think krogothmanhattan is committing any abuse of merit just for issuing 1 merit to some users replying in his thread.

OP you created an account just to say this, that’s 10 x more wasteful, and pretty weak if you ask me. I hate when people hide behind alts, such a cowardly move.  That said, Theymos has said he’d rather see merit spent than lost, and Krogo doesn’t care about rankings, doesn’t do sig campaigns, and his project has absolutely zero to do with trying to make money. He is a fellow collectibles nut like myself who loves bitcoin for its technologically, not for “profits “ like 75% of this forum and wanted to create a cool collectible just for the fun of it. He wants to give his NFTs away for free as well, for the record. Sometimes I like my own YouTube comments just because it draws attention to something I care about others seeing and discussing, I’d liken this to that.

Speaking from experience, it's probably better to let the trolls punch themselves out with their nonsense as opposed to trying to get the truth across.  If for no other reason than that nobody really cares and trolls have more time to concoct lies than busy people have to refute them.  If he were to respond it would likely just be a back and forth that wastes everyone's time until someone has a stroke.  It's just not worth it.  Kudos to krogo for being able to laugh this one off as opposed to wasting more of everyone's time on some nonsense forum drama that some around here crave so dearly.  



He's giving away free NFTs?  Legend.

I'm here with you, I don't like this way either but I don't think the OP is at fault for it because he didn't break the rules. So you shouldn't really care about that because maybe the OP doesn't want his main account to be known to anyone just because of a question like this.

Of course he's innocent of send the merit in that thread but I'm sure not everyone will like it this way although in general he can spend his merit on any post he deems appropriate. So far I don't know that he is one of the merit source, so maybe he knows how to spend his merit even though some people don't like him.

@gacpoue
Filling Meta with your thoughtless spam posts isn't enough, now you have decided to plagiarize as well?
Don't bother deleting it, forum scrappers have picked it up by now.