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Title: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: Hydrogen on December 30, 2021, 12:39:40 PM Quote Did you steal a car in 2021? How about taking a bribe? If you did, the IRS says to make sure you report it on your taxes. Those provisions went viral Monday following a tweet alerting taxpayers to those somewhat surprising requirements to note the value of your ill-gotten gains. "Tax szn is around the corner," read the tweet from @litcapital. "Remember to report your income from illegal activities and stolen property to the IRS." The requirements can be found at IRS.gov amid other missives to report income earned from jobs in the gig economy and what to do about taxable alimony payments. "If you steal property, you must report its fair market value in your income in the year you steal it unless you return it to its rightful owner in the same year,"' read the provision for stolen property. What if you're dealing drugs or caught up in other crimes? In that case, the IRS publication says jot your earnings on line 8z, Schedule 1 of your 1040 form, "or on schedule C ... if from your self-employment activity." And don't forget to report any bribes or kickbacks you took in the course of doing business. The kickbacks also go on Schedule 1 or Schedule C, while the IRS says bribes should simply be included in your income. "If I steal a bunch of tvs from walmart and a homeless man steals them from me can i write that off as a loss?" read one tweet. "So once you report your stolen stuff you legally get to keep it right? Asking for a friend." An IRS spokesman confirmed the provisions are on its website but declined to comment further. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2021/12/28/irs-says-stolen-property-must-reported-and-twitter-goes-wild/9035694002/ .... Meme reaction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G56VgsLfKY4 The US tax code is alleged to be an odd thing weighing in at more than 60,000 pages in length. Whether the IRS was forged in the image of the US tax code or vice versa is up for debate. One thing is for certain. The IRS has many odd quirks and foibles. It does not function in the way most would expect. Most reading this would expect all reports of criminal activity reported in tax documents to be forwarded to local law enforcement. Yet the IRS has maintained a demonstrable degree of confidentiality over the years, and is provably shown to be lawfully bound from sharing confidential data under certain circumstances. One example of this is illegal immigrants in the USA who report and pay taxes. Most might expect such reports to be forwarded to immigration officials so residents illegally in the country can be deported. But that is not the case. It has been documented in some cases, that the IRS is legally bound and restricted from sharing such personal information regarding immigration. Even if they are connected to ongoing criminal cases. While I can't say I completely understand the process or future of the IRS in the country. It is quite possible that in the future, the IRS will be legally bound from sharing accounts of criminal activity with law enforcement to guarantee the government reaps a higher share of tax revenues from crime. Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: fiulpro on December 30, 2021, 01:10:31 PM This is honestly not funny and not even reasonable. Maintaining confidentiality when you know which people are involved in the criminal activities and not forwarding it to the government, not reporting it is awful. I don't even understand why did they do it for so many years? Illegal activities and stolen properties are something that should not be taken lightly, tweeting about it, makes me sure that there is nothing right with the government. Apparently they only help the law when the police finally comes and knocks at their door and ask about the particular person. "Confidentiality"
They are talking it too far. Shouldn't they be so kind to answer why do they have probelms with cryptocurrencies like *Bitcoins* then?? This is a twisted reason for them. As long as the government is getting taxes, they will keep mum about it and that's about it. Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: Gozie51 on December 30, 2021, 04:36:54 PM Well I don't understand the duty of the law enforcement agency in the case where stolen bitcoin will be reported as income. I mean that in the instance is stealing and the person has to face punishment and not just the interest of the income to it . This is to discourage hackers and scammers. Is awful to here such that the first interest should be tax.
Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: wxa7115 on December 30, 2021, 05:04:56 PM The US tax code is alleged to be an odd thing weighing in at more than 60,000 pages in length. Whether the IRS was forged in the image of the US tax code or vice versa is up for debate. One thing is for certain. The IRS has many odd quirks and foibles. It does not function in the way most would expect. Most reading this would expect all reports of criminal activity reported in tax documents to be forwarded to local law enforcement. Yet the IRS has maintained a demonstrable degree of confidentiality over the years, and is provably shown to be lawfully bound from sharing confidential data under certain circumstances. I will admit that I do not know much about the IRS but if this is the way it works then I would say that is incredibly weird, after all it would be expected that such kind of income must always be hidden as I would expect that information to be shared with the authorities and it could lead to an arrest.One example of this is illegal immigrants in the USA who report and pay taxes. Most might expect such reports to be forwarded to immigration officials so residents illegally in the country can be deported. But that is not the case. It has been documented in some cases, that the IRS is legally bound and restricted from sharing such personal information regarding immigration. Even if they are connected to ongoing criminal cases. While I can't say I completely understand the process or future of the IRS in the country. It is quite possible that in the future, the IRS will be legally bound from sharing accounts of criminal activity with law enforcement to guarantee the government reaps a higher share of tax revenues from crime. But at the same time it makes sense, the IRS in theory should only care about getting taxes and nothing more, so in a way I can understand why in order to encourage people to pay their taxes on all kind of income they may decide to turn a blind eye to some illegal activity. Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: BernyJB on December 30, 2021, 05:13:52 PM I think it's great!
I mean, we wouldn't want criminals to be breaking the law now, would we? ;D Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: kryptqnick on December 30, 2021, 05:14:20 PM Wow, the IRS is really focusing on what's important to it: to get as much in taxes as legally possible. It's cool that they don't report undocumented migrants and take tax reports from them. It's even cooler that they're legally not allowed to share this information, although it's indeed very surprising to me. But in a way, it doesn't really make much sense because paying taxes on bribes and stolen property somehow legitimizes such actions (I checked the IRS website (https://www.irs.gov/publications/p17), and it's not a joke, apparently), while it really should not.
Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: DaveF on December 30, 2021, 05:29:53 PM Tax evasion is how they got Al Capone 90 years ago
https://themobmuseum.org/blog/capone-tax-evasion-trial-jury-finds-chicago-mobster-guilty-on-5-of-22-counts/ I thought everyone knew this. It's actually an interesting way to go about it for people who declare very little income abut spend tons of money. There have been a few others over the years. Interesting part is there have been some other criminal enterprises that have setup fake businesses and run all their 'dirty' money through them. Paid all the taxes needed and so on and gotten 'clean' money out the other side. Still got caught. -Dave Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: Quidat on December 30, 2021, 09:11:44 PM I will admit that I do not know much about the IRS but if this is the way it works then I would say that is incredibly weird, after all it would be expected that such kind of income must always be hidden as I would expect that information to be shared with the authorities and it could lead to an arrest. Who would really be in their right minds in doing so?But at the same time it makes sense, the IRS in theory should only care about getting taxes and nothing more, so in a way I can understand why in order to encourage people to pay their taxes on all kind of income they may decide to turn a blind eye to some illegal activity. If they do know that proclaiming out something that those illegal activity or crimes that you had done must be reported as an income and dealing with IRS? No one would be dumb in doing so yet the primary thing that would put up into their minds is that they would really get arrested on high chances if ever they would tend to report out. So its totally nonsense imho. Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: paxmao on December 30, 2021, 09:39:20 PM Reporting bribes as income just made me chuckle ;D
My view is that you have to pay taxes insofar as you enjoy benefits. Regardless of your legal status in a country, if you enjoy infrastructures, health benefits, safety, legal rights, etc... you have to contribute. The sticky point here is the same as the one that originally started the war of independence in the US (allegedly) - taxation without representation is unfair. Thus, these illegal immigrants could argue that they are not paying taxes that will be managed by politicians they cannot elect. Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: dothebeats on December 30, 2021, 11:17:17 PM It's as if the IRS is treating theft and bribery as legal and normal forms of where people can get their money from, even going so far as urging people who committed such crimes to file their "gains" on tax. Idk whether I should be happy with this meme-y decision or not, but it's certainly going to receive a lot of mockery from other countries for a long while.
The government agencies of the United States seem to get dumber and dumber every year, with propositions that seem sarcastic at first due to its silliness, and ending up being the real thing. Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: hatshepsut93 on December 30, 2021, 11:49:08 PM I can understand taking taxes from something like selling drugs, but taxing theft just makes the IRS an accomplice. I wonder if we'll see a court case where someone sues the IRS to get their stolen money back.
How does this all make any sense when the US projects an image of being tough on crime, has a very high rate of incarceration, and then on the other hand seemingly supports criminal activity? Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: Darker45 on December 31, 2021, 04:14:37 AM Funny! But if we are to be strict about it, what the IRS is doing sounds just right, although they seem to be too religious on their job that they seem to be doing the unnecessary extra mile and obviously look ridiculous as a result. But they're doing their job perfectly. I'd say they deserve an applause for it. Indeed, income comes in many forms and it certainly includes bribes and whatnot. But what I am curious of is whether the people who are involved in such activities would be so honest they would declare even their stolen money or properties?
Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: bittraffic on December 31, 2021, 04:50:11 AM Robbers from now on have to have thier inventory for the stolen cars and money they got from robbing. Unless they are returning it in the same year :D They are going to be listed as the dumbest criminals after reporting thier inventory to the IRS. This has got to be the most unbelievable laws they've created but they are pretty much serious about it so one thing is for sure politicians are likely to be jailed soon. Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: timerland on December 31, 2021, 04:56:02 AM Ah yes - criminals are going to expose themselves by paying their taxes so that when they do get charged, they will at least avoid the tax evasion ones ::)
It's honestly ridiculous and a perfect encapsulation of how archaic and unreasonable the current tax code is in most countries. Hopefully blockchain technology can help the processing of tax be more efficient and fair for everyone involved. Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: Sithara007 on December 31, 2021, 05:16:48 AM We have similar laws in our country (India) as well. Even if the income is sourced from an illegal business, the tax law states that it needs to be reported in the returns and due tax needs to be paid. A few years ago, when the legal status of Bitcoin was in limbo, several of the Bitcoin traders received notices from the income tax department. It explicitly stated that Bitcoin trading is not 100% legal, but the traders still need to pay taxes on any profits they receive from these transactions. Fortunately in India, the IT department is not as stringent as the one in the States.
Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: odolvlobo on December 31, 2021, 07:14:49 AM This is old news.
Al Capone, the famous Chicago crime boss in the 1920's, was not convicted and sent to prison for murder, etc. He was convicted and sent to prison for tax evasion. Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: kaya11 on December 31, 2021, 11:20:02 AM Well I don't understand the duty of the law enforcement agency in the case where stolen bitcoin will be reported as income. I mean that in the instance is stealing and the person has to face punishment and not just the interest of the income to it . This is to discourage hackers and scammers. Is awful to here such that the first interest should be tax. It is a trap, where in a side your free to steal Bitcoin and therefore when you report it to the authorities, cuffs and bars are waiting for you and goodbye to stealing Bitcoin again. What the hell is wrong with the people today, telling people it is okay to steal then report it as an income? Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: hello_good_sir on December 31, 2021, 12:38:15 PM This is beyond absurd.
Do they expect criminals to reveal all their wrongdoings for the greater good? What is even the point of saying this anyway? They must be high when they wrote this law - legitimately. Or perhaps they unironically thought that it would be a good profit-making undertaking to include these two paragraphs. Wouldn't be surprised either way. Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: DaveF on December 31, 2021, 12:52:55 PM Do they expect criminals to reveal all their wrongdoings for the greater good? What is even the point of saying this anyway? The point as was shown above was a round about way to go after people like Capone and other criminals who through bribes / influence / killing of witnesses / fear / etc. could not be convicted of other things other ways. They rarely go after the smaller people with this it's is usually the bigger criminals who would get away with it. It's also used against politicians where you can see that they have been spending more then they earned but you can't figure out where the bribe came from.... -Dave Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: so98nn on January 01, 2022, 10:55:42 AM . . and why is this not a part of money laundering? I mean if we go with this news then imagine the amount of drugs that is caught up at the airports every year around the world! This could be part of big revenue in terms of taxes. However, I don't understand one thing here, in what legal book this one is written? Or is it like they are making their own comforting rules for themselves? How they can levy taxes on smuggled things if no one is gonna utilise it after it is being captured by the legal authorities. For example, goods and services when sold get the taxes paid by end user which then is paid to the IRS while filing the income tax returns.
Since in this case there are no organisation, no user, how are they getting the same? If property is stolen and it got captured by authorities then its value is zero because it wont be sold up ahead, right? How is it going to be taxed property! Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: Wexnident on January 02, 2022, 03:42:04 AM I mean, they're technically right you know? It is technically income, and well, the IRS is responsible for collecting taxes from the citizens, so with that being the case, just looking beyond whether said income is stolen or not, they're actually doing their job. Now whether this is actually ethically correct or not, well... I'm pretty sure we all know the answer to that.
Though I guess seeing the case of Al Capone (pointed out by DaveF and odolvlobo), if it were used that way then it does make some sense, but I guess it's more of a specialized method hence why it's rather odd for most people (including me) to actually see it. Tried looking for more cases like Al Capone though I didn't find any, that or I suck at looking up stuff on the internet. Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: pinggoki on January 02, 2022, 06:11:29 AM I don't know if this is a trap or an invitation for criminals. I think that declaration of stolen goods isn't really a good thing because I don't think that people aren't dumb enough to declare what they've stolen. Besides being absurd, I think that this is also a big waste on time and tax dollars.
Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: eaLiTy on January 02, 2022, 07:52:27 PM ~ I initially thought this as a joke, but from the way it is presented and knowing the situation in the US, this looks really weird to begin with and i am not sure where this will end. If you think that the tax authorities will not share the criminal activities, that is a joke that might last till the presidential term of Biden, who i think is a puppet dancing to the tune of others. While I can't say I completely understand the process or future of the IRS in the country. It is quite possible that in the future, the IRS will be legally bound from sharing accounts of criminal activity with law enforcement to guarantee the government reaps a higher share of tax revenues from crime. They already created a huge mess and they are legitimizing many illegal activities and now paying your taxes for the things you stole, it is a funny world we live in :D. Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: avikz on January 04, 2022, 12:30:43 PM While I can't say I completely understand the process or future of the IRS in the country. It is quite possible that in the future, the IRS will be legally bound from sharing accounts of criminal activity with law enforcement to guarantee the government reaps a higher share of tax revenues from crime. Well, does that mean, crime will be legal in future as an individual will be paying taxes on it? The entire matter sounds like an oxymoron to me! Why on earth someone will be declaring that he had stolen a property and earned some money from it and then paying taxes on it! It's hilarious to be honest! Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: paxmao on January 04, 2022, 10:07:11 PM ~ I initially thought this as a joke, but from the way it is presented and knowing the situation in the US, this looks really weird to begin with and i am not sure where this will end. If you think that the tax authorities will not share the criminal activities, that is a joke that might last till the presidential term of Biden, who i think is a puppet dancing to the tune of others. While I can't say I completely understand the process or future of the IRS in the country. It is quite possible that in the future, the IRS will be legally bound from sharing accounts of criminal activity with law enforcement to guarantee the government reaps a higher share of tax revenues from crime. They already created a huge mess and they are legitimizing many illegal activities and now paying your taxes for the things you stole, it is a funny world we live in :D. Perhaps this is just a legal requirement to be able to later indict those that took bribes or earned on illicit activities on the usual charges plus the ones related to financial fraud. Effectively, this means that they will, for example get 10 years for drug trafficking and another 5 for fraud, so it basically makes their liability for anything that produces a profit even larger and also allows going after their accounts easier. Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: TimeTeller on January 04, 2022, 10:15:03 PM ~ I initially thought this as a joke, but from the way it is presented and knowing the situation in the US, this looks really weird to begin with and i am not sure where this will end. If you think that the tax authorities will not share the criminal activities, that is a joke that might last till the presidential term of Biden, who i think is a puppet dancing to the tune of others. While I can't say I completely understand the process or future of the IRS in the country. It is quite possible that in the future, the IRS will be legally bound from sharing accounts of criminal activity with law enforcement to guarantee the government reaps a higher share of tax revenues from crime. They already created a huge mess and they are legitimizing many illegal activities and now paying your taxes for the things you stole, it is a funny world we live in :D. Perhaps this is just a legal requirement to be able to later indict those that took bribes or earned on illicit activities on the usual charges plus the ones related to financial fraud. Effectively, this means that they will, for example get 10 years for drug trafficking and another 5 for fraud, so it basically makes their liability for anything that produces a profit even larger and also allows going after their accounts easier. Do they really think that people who steal or accept bribes will report what they got? This is somewhat funny but I believe, there's more story on this. But high likely that people doing their illegal activities won't report it. Because it is admitting their crime and it equates to possible jail time. So don't know how they can encourage those people to come up front and report what they did? Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: LoyceV on January 05, 2022, 08:06:42 AM Tax evasion is how they got Al Capone 90 years ago If he would have reported his criminal income to taxes, they would have had hard evidence, and his prison sentence would probably have been much longer. They only used the tax evasion for the trial because they couldn't prove anything else.https://themobmuseum.org/blog/capone-tax-evasion-trial-jury-finds-chicago-mobster-guilty-on-5-of-22-counts/ I thought everyone knew this. It's actually an interesting way to go about it for people who declare very little income abut spend tons of money. . . and why is this not a part of money laundering? Money laundering is when you pretend the money was earned elsewhere, right? So: you steal a car, sell it, and launder the by pretending you earned the money from the car wash you own. IRS doesn't want that, they just want you to report the sale of the stolen car. Lol :DSo the IRS' stance is: as long as you pay taxes, they don't care? Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: Findingnemo on January 06, 2022, 04:39:29 PM Hey yeah, I am ready to report it, I am going to Rob a bank nearby and use a stolen car as well to take the robbed money3to my home hut IRS don't worry I will pay the taxes for them and will keep the remaining amount because I worked for it.
Stupidity at its best though. ::) Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: Oceat on January 06, 2022, 05:22:28 PM I don't know if this is a trap or an invitation for criminals. I think that declaration of stolen goods isn't really a good thing because I don't think that people aren't dumb enough to declare what they've stolen. Besides being absurd, I think that this is also a big waste on time and tax dollars. I don't know if this is a joke or not but it looks like they were too desperate to claim taxes even if it's from illegal activities as long as you pay your taxes, that's all that matters they don't really care where it came from. I don't know if someone would do it but this is so absurd to believe. You might as well right if this is a trap since it looks like a trap to catch criminals or someone who does some dirty work to earn an easy money.Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: DrBeer on January 07, 2022, 02:36:10 PM I wonder if a person pays taxes on the stolen goods, he becomes the owner? :) And if he indicated that it was "not legally acquired" - is the fiscal service obliged to transfer the information to the police, for example? Not ? Almost everywhere such a situation will be considered as a concealment or complicity in a crime ... In a word, the situation is somehow crazy :)
Title: Re: IRS says stolen property and bribes must be reported as income Post by: Lucius on January 09, 2022, 02:50:58 PM I hope all the time that someone will write that some IRS official did something stupid and that such a law cannot be true, but they are really serious about this :o I wonder if anyone will really act in a way to report such things, thinking that this will legalize their crime and or at least in some way calm their conscience.
The only thing missing from the whole story is that the IRS will reward anyone who reports stealing or bribing - and the rewards can be a coffee cup labeled "Crime pays off, only if you pay taxes." :D |