|
Title: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: joker_josue on January 03, 2022, 10:21:01 AM I thought it would be interesting to see the path that merits take, that is, to observe who receives merits for who sends them next.
So, with the help of the data provided by LoyceV here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3078328.0), he built this tree of the most generous users' merits (based on the Coin-1 table, here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4523027.0)). How it works? Let's look at three levels of sent de merits. The first level refers to the generous main user. On the second level we will see the 3 users who received the most merits from the main one. And on the third level, we will see the 3 users who received the most merits from the generous second. The data are for the year 2021. Later I will be able to do it for previous years (according to acceptance of this analysis). I will present the top 10 of the most generous users to give merits. Anyone who wishes can request their "tree" in this topic. Merits Tree Top 1-10 (#post_t10) | Top 11-30 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5379658.msg58890101#msg58890101) | Top 31-50 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5379658.msg58898038#msg58898038) | Top 51-75 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5379658.msg58931879#msg58931879) Description: FIRST USER > TOP THREE OF FIRST USER (NO. MERITS RECEIVED FROM PREVIOUS LEVEL) > TOP THREE OF SECOND USERS (NO. MERITS RECEIVED FROM PREVIOUS LEVEL) Top 1-10
Top 11-30 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5379658.msg58890101#msg58890101) Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: joker_josue on January 03, 2022, 10:21:10 AM Reserved
Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: joker_josue on January 03, 2022, 10:21:16 AM Reserved
Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: fillippone on January 03, 2022, 10:35:37 AM Very interesting.
You can see some patterns here. What really bugs me is users receiving many merits and not sending enough. As a merit source, I often question myself about this. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: NeuroticFish on January 03, 2022, 10:44:15 AM Very interesting. You can see some patterns here. Patterns will always exists. People do browse the forum by their interests and this has a high potential of creating merit circles/"gangs". What really bugs me is users receiving many merits and not sending enough. As a merit source, I often question myself about this. This is pretty normal. I guess that some very high value posters simply don't spend that much time on the forum or don't care much on meriting others. They still help. I think I've read even about merit sources no longer being that much active. It happens... It's also about standards. I expect some have higher standards after which they consider posts valuable, hence they probably have hard time spending their merit. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: libert19 on January 03, 2022, 11:00:28 AM ^^ Just to clarify, 100 merits were given to me by Nutildah under The Bitcointalk Urban Achievers Merit Scholarship Program (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5379658.msg58888735#msg58888735)
Regarding sMerits, if something worthy comes across I spend but don't go out of way. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: joker_josue on January 03, 2022, 11:05:09 AM Very interesting. You can see some patterns here. What really bugs me is users receiving many merits and not sending enough. As a merit source, I often question myself about this. It's true, I noticed that a lot when I was building this topic. It is also curious that usually a good part of merits go back to the first donor. But there it is, as @NeuroticFish said, this circular of merits turns out to be normal because of common interests. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: babo on January 03, 2022, 11:05:37 AM Patterns will always exists. People do browse the forum by their interests and this has a high potential of creating merit circles/"gangs". it always depends on the situations a person with Legendary rank has no advantages in receiving merits, as much as in spending them to incremental the pool of reliable users (with high rank) we always remember the reason why merits were born, they were born to avoid account farming their role stops at that (in fact in the forums dedicated to account farming they have stopped considering bitcointalk as a playground) This is pretty normal. I guess that some very high value posters simply don't spend that much time on the forum or don't care much on meriting others. They still help. I think I've read even about merit sources no longer being that much active. It happens... It's also about standards. I expect some have higher standards after which they consider posts valuable, hence they probably have hard time spending their merit. here too, I want to remind you that distributing merits is on a voluntary basis so it's unrewarding work Theymos also said that it is subjective and not questionable how the merits are spent, indeed .. according to him it is better to spend them than to keep them since keeping merits is useless Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: NeuroticFish on January 03, 2022, 11:09:51 AM so it's unrewarding work This is not always true, based on human psychology. I've noticed that since I'm merit source I also receive more merits. And it can't be that my post have become that much better :D There was a topic (I won't search now) about people getting inclined to give merits back from where they've received it. Back then I didn't think that's possible, now I tend to agree that it does happen. So it can become rewarding as position (merits received). Which some will care about and some won't. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: babo on January 03, 2022, 11:14:27 AM so it's unrewarding work This is not always true, based on human psychology. I've noticed that since I'm merit source I also receive more merits. And it can't be that my post have become that much better :D There was a topic (I won't search now) about people getting inclined to give merits back from where they've received it. Back then I didn't think that's possible, now I tend to agree that it does happen. So it can become rewarding as position (merits received). I think it is due to the fact that being also a source of merit, you have become even more attentive to how you write and what you write consequently this responsibility has increased your quality of posts, consequently this plus other effects (such as gratitude) tend to increase in% the dose of merits received there is no particular pattern, just a series of small things that happen and that concur in some particular cycles look for example at me / fillippone / duesoldi, we are part of the Italian community, very small we are trying to grow it, but in the end the active users are always around 40-50 in the end the ones talking are always the ones I basically prefer (if I can choose) to give my merits according to this criterion (in order of importance) - users with low rank - users of the local board unfortunately it is not always possible and at the end of the 30 days I have to spend the merits (otherwise they expire) I prefer to give them to people who in turn spend the merits received in order to have a higher efficiency (from merits) and therefore that they give them to others Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: NeuroticFish on January 03, 2022, 11:18:47 AM I basically prefer (if I can choose) to give my merits according to this criterion (in order of importance) - users with low rank - users of the local board With very small number of exceptions, I never merit based on user. I merit the post. If the post deserves something, I'll give it that. I am also not overly generous, the vast majority of merits I give is in the 1-3 range. I also merit the local board, but it's not as active as I'd like, so most of my merit goes "international". Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: libert19 on January 03, 2022, 11:19:06 AM Patterns will always exists. People do browse the forum by their interests and this has a high potential of creating merit circles/"gangs". a person with Legendary rank has no advantages in receiving merits, as much as in spending them to incremental the pool of reliable users (with high rank)Exactly, I love your comment but won't merit it cause you are already leggy :P plus for me it's rather rare sight to earn merits (ik improve post quality). Would rather hold whatever some are left and spend when opportunity arises (good post + rank < leggy). Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: babo on January 03, 2022, 11:23:06 AM With very small number of exceptions, I never merit based on user. I merit the post. If the post deserves something, I'll give it that. I am also not overly generous, the vast majority of merits I give is in the 1-3 range. I also merit the local board, but it's not as active as I'd like, so most of my merit goes "international". everyone has their own strategy there is no right strategy or wrong strategy there is giving merits following a more or less "good" criterion in the end, if you deserve a user or deserve a post you are still making a selection for example I usually boost the brand new with 1-2 merits to make them understand that I am not one who belongs to the Legendary caste and wants to keep the Legendary number as low as possible I want a live, active forum that discusses and talks (even argues there is) I don't want a forum overrun by spammers who want to do account farming so any strategy that nurtures people with good intentions is fine, yours included Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: joker_josue on January 03, 2022, 12:30:43 PM everyone has their own strategy there is no right strategy or wrong strategy there is giving merits following a more or less "good" criterion I believe that merits must be given, regardless of the user's level. Merits are a form of reward for a user's post, like an applause for what he said/did. Therefore, regardless of the strategy used, everyone can be entitled to receive merit. Soon, I will add more users to the tree. ::) Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: fillippone on January 03, 2022, 12:50:27 PM Soon, I will add more users to the tree. ::) I think it would be interesting to see more of those trees. It might also be a nice addition to website like ddmrddmr merit dashboard, or Loyce website or even bpip.org. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: joker_josue on January 03, 2022, 01:14:39 PM Top 1-10 (#post_t10)
Top 11-30 (Some users may not appear, for not having given merits in 2021.) Top 31-50 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5379658.msg58898038#msg58898038) Top 51-75 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5379658.msg58931879#msg58931879)
Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: Oshosondy on January 03, 2022, 03:09:24 PM Good work OP
I believe that merits must be given, regardless of the user's level. Merits are a form of reward for a user's post, like an applause for what he said/did. It is true that some members are receiving merits but not sending, this can be because the user is not active like before, like Satoshi and Hal. Some people have no much time to the extent some do not have the maximum posts required for weekly post requirements, some even do not join a campaign and have no much time but are only here once in awhile for little time to post something quality that will get them merit from other users. Therefore, regardless of the strategy used, everyone can be entitled to receive merit. But one thing I like about merit and smerit given is that if a member is good and spending quality time and post on this forum, such members are easy to rank up. People think differently, some people are active but strict in giving smerits but it still happens in a way only spammers and other no quality posters are unable to rank as they are the only one left out to be merited. There could be some bias in merit and smerit receiving and giving but it still works in a way no good poster is left out. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: DireWolfM14 on January 03, 2022, 04:02:49 PM It wouldn't be new years' weekend without a merited Meta thread about Merit.
Happy New Year, all. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: tranthidung on January 03, 2022, 04:09:35 PM It is very long time and LoyceV did not update his threads
I expect LoyceV to update those threads after more than 1 year :D Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: The Sceptical Chymist on January 03, 2022, 04:53:36 PM What really bugs me is users receiving many merits and not sending enough. I've expressed this sentiment before: People are free to do whatever they like with their sMerits, and it isn't a requirement of forum membership that you have to participate in--or even like--the merit system. I'd say if it bugs you that someone is hoarding merits, you're probably paying too much attention to other members' sending history. OP, this is a pretty cool visual representation of merit flow between selected members, and I'd like to see more (which I'm assuming is the purpose of your reserved posts). I've seen very complicated merit maps before, and while those are cool I like this more limited display of where merit ends up two members removed from a merit source. I'm assuming they're merit sources if they're on the most generous list. It wouldn't be new years' weekend without a merited Meta thread about Merit. Yeah, what's up with that? I've noticed at least two threads like that in the past couple of days.Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: DireWolfM14 on January 03, 2022, 04:58:32 PM It wouldn't be new years' weekend without a merited Meta thread about Merit. Yeah, what's up with that? I've noticed at least two threads like that in the past couple of days.Well, I'm trying to be more diplomatic in 2022, so I'll refrain from expressing my opinion. ;D Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: skarais on January 03, 2022, 05:02:59 PM I honestly don't really like hoarding the sMerit I've had for longer when I find quality posts. I'm more inclined to spend it than to have to keep it for months as it's the best way to maintain the cycle of achievement. But since I've never had a lot of sMerit so I'm more selective about spending it except when I can't find any other ideas than to spend it on previous transactions.
By the way, this is a good thread. It doesn't matter if more distribution of merit is given to highly rank users if they post something quality. Merit is not for a certain rank, but merit for anyone whose post is quality regardless of what rank they have at that time. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: LoyceV on January 03, 2022, 05:48:02 PM It is very long time and LoyceV did not update his threads I updated both topics less than half a year ago. I've seen "complaints" about too frequent bumping, so if someone wants an update, they'll have to ask for it in the topic.
I expect LoyceV to update those threads after more than 1 year :D Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: joker_josue on January 03, 2022, 07:48:41 PM OP, this is a pretty cool visual representation of merit flow between selected members, and I'd like to see more (which I'm assuming is the purpose of your reserved posts). I've seen very complicated merit maps before, and while those are cool I like this more limited display of where merit ends up two members removed from a merit source. I'm assuming they're merit sources if they're on the most generous list. Thanks! I will try to add a few more users soon. If anyone wants me to make their tree, just ask. ;) Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: Smartvirus on January 03, 2022, 11:03:42 PM What really bugs me is users receiving many merits and not sending enough. I've expressed this sentiment before: People are free to do whatever they like with their sMerits, and it isn't a requirement of forum membership that you have to participate in--or even like--the merit system. I'd say if it bugs you that someone is hoarding merits, you're probably paying too much attention to other members' sending history. Though, its really of no using hoarding what adds no value to your account or user. Forum has so designed it that, merits counts for you, how many you earn through a period as well (120 days, 150days etc) but the smerits like a power to reward or acknowledge. Its best you use it at times. For a proactive user of the forum, its hard to say ig any user won't come across something intriguing and merit deserving. Not liking the merit system is some reason but really shouldn't be as, it could in some way, promote the very thing the merit system was meant to discourage (trolling and sh*t posting). OP, that's some cool data set and presentation method right there. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: Pmalek on January 04, 2022, 07:42:08 AM a person with Legendary rank has no advantages in receiving merits, as much as in spending them to incremental the pool of reliable users (with high rank) That's not really accurate. They are crucial for signature campaigns, no matter the rank. Imagine if most people refused meriting legendary users despite their level of posting and a spot opened up in a signature campaign. A legendary member with 4 earned merits in the recent months goes head-to-head with a hero member who has earned 300 in the same period. Who do you think will have the bigger chance to get accepted by most campaign managers?Besides that, it's a recognition of your work and contribution. For that, rank doesn't matter. Time and effort should be rewarded. What immediately caught my eye in this graphical representation is how stingy mocacinno is with rewarding others with merits. :P Let's see if he says anything... Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: The Sceptical Chymist on January 04, 2022, 07:57:01 AM If anyone wants me to make their tree, just ask. ;) OK then, you don't have to twist my arm: Can you please make me a tree? Thanks in advance (although I'm fairly sure I know what it's going to look like).For sure I like the sentiments about this and the way you did put it. To be a no man's business on how smerits ate being handled. I for one subscribe to that idea of not paying any and I mean, any attention to anyone's merit history. It just doesn't help any one and since there is virtually nothing you could do about it as a forum user, there just isn't any point. I think some members just do it for fun, and others are probably looking for people who might be abusing the system/sniffing out alts/whatever. There's no harm in it, but as I said I'm not going to hold it against someone if they hoard all their sMerits, because nobody's required to participate in the merit system.Side note: it's more fun browsing through some members' trust pages, though I haven't done that in quite some time. It kind of gets old quick, and just like looking through people's merit history there's little point to it. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: Charles-Tim on January 04, 2022, 09:00:39 AM What immediately caught my eye in this graphical representation is how stingy mocacinno is with rewarding others with merits. :P People can never be the same, that is how merit system works on this forum. Some people just like to hoard all because they are not that active while they only reply to few they read. Mocacinno is not that active on this forum. But I get your point, he is a type that did not focus on sending merit also. ;DLet's see if he says anything... I for one subscribe to that idea of not paying any and I mean, any attention to anyone's merit history. It just doesn't help any one and since there is virtually nothing you could do about it as a forum user, there just isn't any point. I was not part of Bitcointalk community in 2018 when the merit system was implement but I am very certain that many people will abused it at the time as they were automatically given half of their merit's smerits. It will be fun for some people to fetch out some merit abusers. I like to check user's merit history just for fun and it can easily let me know how the person is good if I haven't noticed him before. Also I easily know someone's local board if active and posting good there. but as I said I'm not going to hold it against someone if they hoard all their sMerits, because nobody's required to participate in the merit system. I either. But I can never send such people merit unless they quote my post for correction. But I think this type of people receive more merits by merit source because merit sources have to send to anyone if having quality posts.Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: DdmrDdmr on January 04, 2022, 09:09:51 AM <…> It might also be a nice addition to website like ddmrddmr merit dashboard, or <…> Rather than tree-like structures, I’d favour more node graphs with vectors between nodes indicating the amount of sMerits sent to and fro (if applicable). The sMerit Network (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3395255) was partly what I wanted to see (although there was no weight on the vertex, and I has to separate Sent and Received charts for ease of use), and Piggy’s gephi based solution (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4584759.0) was very nice, despite not being able to see the weights of the vertex on the graphs (which is important). Tableau can do graph charting, although it is something I haven’t tried out, and I believe you still need to resort to external tools to determine the x,y coordinates to give each node (i.e. gephi). I kind of get the feeling it won’t perform great on a large volume, and as I said, the ideal solution would be seamless for updates, filterable, and display values on the vertex. I may look into it at some point, but not now. I did have a tab called reciprocal merit on the Merit Dashboard a while back, where you could see all reciprocal sMerits between accounts, but it was painfully slow, so I eventually scrapped it. <…> Nice one too. I think I tried something on Flourish, but it couldn’t handle all the data points I gave it at the time (all the TX BD basically).Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: fillippone on January 04, 2022, 09:23:08 AM <…> It might also be a nice addition to website like ddmrddmr merit dashboard, or <…> Rather than tree-like structures, I’d favour more node graphs with vectors between nodes indicating the amount of sMerits sent to and fro (if applicable). The sMerit Network (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3395255) was partly what I wanted to see (although there was no weight on the vertex, and I has to separate Sent and Received charts for ease of use), and Piggy’s gephi based solution (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4584759.0) was very nice, despite not being able to see the weights of the vertex on the graphs (which is important). Some time ago, I tried a chord Diagram on flourish: https://talkimg.com/images/2023/05/15/blob8d88e2d6740ea747.jpeg (https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/5482014/) https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/5482014/ I also made a similar one for the WO thread (https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/5754929/)... Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: joker_josue on January 04, 2022, 09:48:08 AM That's not really accurate. They are crucial for signature campaigns, no matter the rank. Imagine if most people refused meriting legendary users despite their level of posting and a spot opened up in a signature campaign. A legendary member with 4 earned merits in the recent months goes head-to-head with a hero member who has earned 300 in the same period. Who do you think will have the bigger chance to get accepted by most campaign managers? Besides that, it's a recognition of your work and contribution. For that, rank doesn't matter. Time and effort should be rewarded. I totally agree with that! I think that regardless of the user's level, if he deserves merit, he should receive it! I look to merit as a way of saying, "I agree with you!/Congratulations!/Cheers!/That's right!" So, if a topic or post from someone, meets what we agreed, giving a merit can be enough, not needing to make a post. And there they are, merits help for campaigns too! If anyone wants me to make their tree, just ask. ;) OK then, you don't have to twist my arm: Can you please make me a tree? Thanks in advance (although I'm fairly sure I know what it's going to look like).By chance your tree had already been made, on the top page 11-30. ::) Does it meet the expectations?
~~ ~~ I also tried these forms of presentation. But I also faced these problems a little. This kind of charts work well with little information, when the information starts to grow, they get very complicated readings. Besides becoming complicated to build. This presentation of mine was the one I managed to do (after almost 2 months of work), which gets the best reading and is easy to update. Even so, he continued to think about how I could improve. If you have tips, they are welcome. Thanks for everyone's support, more trees soon. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: LoyceV on January 04, 2022, 10:16:02 AM I look to merit as a way of saying, "I agree with you!~" I can't agree with that :P I Merit a post if I think it's worth reading. It's not an endorsement, and it doesn't (necessarily) mean I agree with the post. I sometimes Merit opposing posts in a topic, because they all make valid points.Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: fillippone on January 04, 2022, 10:48:54 AM I look to merit as a way of saying, "I agree with you!~" I can't agree with that :P I Merit a post if I think it's worth reading. It's not an endorsement, and it doesn't (necessarily) mean I agree with the post. I sometimes Merit opposing posts in a topic, because they all make valid points.Correct!(how this couldn't be..) This is what merits are meant to be: While we will not be directly moderating this, I encourage people to give merit to posts that are objectively high-quality, not just posts that you agree with. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: joker_josue on January 04, 2022, 11:22:36 AM Top 1-10 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5379658.0#post_t10)
Top 11-30 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5379658.msg58890101#msg58890101) Top 31-50 (Some users may not appear, for not having given merits in 2021.) Top 51-75 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5379658.msg58931879#msg58931879)
Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: bitmover on January 04, 2022, 11:39:04 AM Very interesting. You can see some patterns here. Patterns will always exists. People do browse the forum by their interests and this has a high potential of creating merit circles/"gangs". It is also very interesting to note that sometimes the merits do come back. Look here. I merited a few members, and they merited me back, completing the "merit circle"
What really bugs me is users receiving many merits and not sending enough. As a merit source, I often question myself about this. I think about that as well. When I first joined the forum I noticed that I love to receive merits, but my standard of quality to merit a post was very high. I realized that if every user was like me, I would have received very few merits. So one day I just decided to merit everyone which is a good contributor to the forum, making good posts and/or adding some effort to the posts. Like this merit analysis the OP did. A few months later I became a merit source. Selecting posts to give merit is not trivial. As a merit source I spend many hours per week meriting posts, and it is an endless job. I have now more than 1000 smerits to spend. If I just sit here for more 30 minutes looking for good posts to merit I will find a LOT. I still find there are many users holding merit for no reason, which I think might be laziness or something else (vanity or some feeling of superiority trying to meet high standards?) Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: joker_josue on January 04, 2022, 12:16:51 PM ~~ ~~ OK! You are right! I forgot to mention another reason for merit: "Topic/post well elaborated/constructed!" 8) Nothing escapes you both! That's why they are sources of merits! ::) Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: LoyceV on January 04, 2022, 12:17:28 PM Selecting posts to give merit is not trivial. As a merit source I spend many hours per week meriting posts, and it is an endless job. I have now more than 1000 smerits to spend. If I just sit here for more 30 minutes looking for good posts to merit I will find a LOT. I admit, I'm lazy :P I don't just search for posts to Merit (unless I'm checking someone's post history), so I need to find them from my normal forum reading. I wouldn't mind dumping 30 times 50 Merit on very good posts, but I don't want to spend days looking for them.I still find there are many users holding merit for no reason, which I think might be laziness or something else (vanity or some feeling of superiority trying to meet high standards?) Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: Pmalek on January 04, 2022, 01:05:22 PM I admit, I'm lazy :P I don't just search for posts to Merit (unless I'm checking someone's post history), so I need to find them from my normal forum reading. I wouldn't mind dumping 30 times 50 Merit on very good posts, but I don't want to spend days looking for them. Since I became a merit source, I haven't really changed much in the way I send merits except that instead of 1, I can now afford to give 2-3 or more merits for the same type of post because I have a source allocation now. When we are talking about difficulties in finding merit-worthy posts, I am not struggling on that front either. As I read through the threads I find interesting and might reply to, I just merit those posts that I like and that's it. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: Coyster on January 04, 2022, 05:41:30 PM I still find there are many users holding merit for no reason, which I think might be laziness or something else (vanity or some feeling of superiority trying to meet high standards?) I don't really know if I can attribute it to laziness, cause if one is an active user on the forum, and as such posts frequently you must come across good posts frequently, I mean before you post, you must first of all have read at least the OP of the thread you want to comment on, so laziness could prolly not be an excuse, except the user is altogether not really an active one.Having said that, the case of high standard could come into play, and it's something that's somewhat subjective, in my opinion, I think the users that i could understand if they prolly keep a really high meriting standard is users that aren't merit sources, they could have the mindset that they just have a couple of smerits (sometimes one or two), and they'll want to save it for the very best; but merit sources on the other hand should be more lenient when awarding merits, I know they also run out of it, but they get replenished, and more often than not they have more smerits to give out than an average non-merit source user. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: Mpamaegbu on January 04, 2022, 07:00:33 PM Imagine if most people refused meriting legendary users despite their level of posting and a spot opened up in a signature campaign. A legendary member with 4 earned merits in the recent months goes head-to-head with a hero member who has earned 300 in the same period. Who do you think will have the bigger chance to get accepted by most campaign managers? I don't think that's any issue because I've seen where applicants with no merit for the 120 days period rule were accepted into signature campaigns demanding it. I guess managers now realize that certain users don't get merits not because their posts aren't merit worthy but because their post aren't visible enough for merit awarding members.I can't agree with that :P I Merit a post if I think it's worth reading. It's not an endorsement, and it doesn't (necessarily) mean I agree with the post. I sometimes Merit opposing posts in a topic, because they all make valid points. Yep, that's the same way I feel too. Opposing posts with reasonable angle also gets my attention.By chance your tree had already been made, on the top page 11-30. ::) Does it meet the expectations?
Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: Timelord2067 on January 04, 2022, 09:26:51 PM As with any statistics, I'm wondering how you've placed the merit senders in the order you've chosen?
By comparison, comparing to BPIP.org information, those users you name fall well down the scale of ranks when the "merit circle" as opposed to those they favour are taken into consideration. For example: 1st (10) (10 shown) suchmoon - merit circle - 1st / 2920 LoyceV - merit circle - 2nd / 2732 dbshck - merit circle - 18th / 1139 El duderino_ - merit circle - 37th / 692 Ratimov - merit circle - 7th / 1863 JayJuanGee - merit circle - 10th / 1701 fillippone - merit circle - 21st / 1052 ETFbitcoin - merit circle - 5th / 1922 Foxpup - merit circle - 43rd / 647 (Must be that merit closed circle holding them back) ::) DdmrDdmr - merit circle - 8th / 1785 2nd ( 11 - 30 ) (16 shown) xandry - merit circle - 9th / 1740 vapourminer - merit circle - 4th / 2179 hugeblack - merit circle - 12th / 1516 Welsh - merit circle - 25th / 946 LFC_Bitcoin - merit circle - 15th / 1201 Halab - merit circle - 13th / 1277 theymos - merit circle - 11th / 1574 qwk - merit circle - 41st / 654 - (Satoshi 300) The Pharmacist - merit circle - 14th / 1206 DarkStar_ - merit circle - 19th / 1074 EFS - merit circle - 45th / 642 OgNasty - merit circle - 3rd / 2540 (Satoshi 350) frodocooper - merit circle - 68th / 492 o_e_l_e_o - merit circle - 6th / 1881 1miau - merit circle - 38th / 686 paxmao - merit circle - 17th / 1150 3rd ( 31 - 50 ) (18 shown) Vispilio - merit circle - 64th / 528 klarki - merit circle - 19th / 1074 Vlad2Vlad - merit circle - 464th / 130 - hornetsnest (390) - a full third of all their merits earned. krogothmanhattan - merit circle - 58th / 573 nutildah - merit circle - 16th / 1163 Vod - merit circle - 27th / 934 malevolent - merit circle - 34th / 735 BobLawblaw - merit circle - 108th / 338 bitmover - merit circle - 24th / 971 CryptopreneurBrainboss - merit circle - 23rd / 1014 tyz - merit circle - 56th / 578 Royse777 - merit circle - 48th / 619 Jet Cash - merit circle - 31st / 782 cabalism13 - merit circle - 52nd / 592 OmegaStarScream - merit circle - 32nd / 775 COOLCRYPTOVATOR - merit circle - 30th / 804 Buchi-88 - merit circle - 129th / 318 SyGambler - merit circle - 152nd / 287 Just for context: Timelord2067 - merit circle - 80th / 446 - (ranked above four of the users who's scores are shown in red above) As a side note, I've been consistently hovering between 78th and 80th on the merit circle ranking. With more merits, I believe I can keep this position, or even improve on it considerably. (cue the DT Trolls who are about to say "if your posts had merit..." all the while distrusting me...) The trickle down of merits that theymos was wanting just isn't happening with many at the top going on the record time and again that they'd rather dump up to fifty merits in one go to a single user rather than actively searching out those whose posts actually deserve merit. OP: Either as a side thread, or as a part of this thread, it'd be worth seeing if the second tier (i.e. first recipients of your TOP 50 list) actually do the hard yards and dispense the merits they have received, or, the merits bounce around at the top leaving many below languishing. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: BlackHatCoiner on January 04, 2022, 10:10:18 PM I've sent over a thousand merits in the last 120 days as an appropriate merit source, now tell me. How generosity does it need to be in a first position?! :P (jk I know you haven't finished)
Seriously now, I'm glad to be in the second position once and in the third 6 times. Being the third most-chosen user of @o_e_l_e_o and the second of @pooya87 is nice, but having your account merited by @DannyHamilton makes you feel especially outstanding. He's cheap (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=60820). I definitely have the above three in my three-fav list. Bpip agrees (https://bpip.org/Profile?id=2775483). Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: KingsDen on January 04, 2022, 11:24:57 PM What really bugs me is users receiving many merits and not sending enough. It is really a bug not only to you but also to the forum at large. But I have this to say about it.As a merit source, I often question myself about this. If the merit hoarder is not a merit source, I think there is no much problem even if he hoards forever. However, if the hoarder is a merit source, it is a problem to the community. A merit source has a duty of distributing merits to quality posts. If some merit sources refuse to carry out this function, it will tell on the other merit sources who work their ass out in other to cover their laggings. In order to check this, @Theymos can decide to increase the amount of merit sources, this time around paying much attention to the availability of the merit sources. He can also consider if it is time to implement what he said Quote from: Theymos There is currently no decay, but if hoarding seems to become a problem, I might add it. Again, I read where people complain about some kind of merit gang. There was when I was giving credence to that. But after I stumbled on @Theymos reply below, I appreciate the essence of the merit system. The Merit System helps to prevent spamming, account farming etc. So, it is better for a merit source to keep meriting some few users producing quality posts rather than hoarding it or let the allocated smerits expire Quote from: Theymos If they complain about amounts, tell them to complain to me. It's best if sources try to exhaust their source allocations, even if it means giving posts higher amounts than is typical. If you have 150 source merit and you only see 3 merit-worthy posts in a month, then I'd rather you over-give each of them 50 merit than let the merit expire.That way there are more people capable of sending merit, and the "merit economy" is less top-down About Legendary users not needing more merits. a person with Legendary rank has no advantages in receiving merits, as much as in spending them to incremental the pool of reliable users (with high rank) Though I have seen a Legendary user telling lower ranking members not to merit him that he has no need for the merits, rather the merits should be used to help others rank up.No matter how good this sounds, I still believe legendary users deserve merits, because there might be changes or addition of ranks anytime. Psychological this might give rise to an unsaid two methods of issuing merits.
Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: Ahli38 on January 05, 2022, 04:31:08 AM this is very interesting . quite clearly shows who is the benefactor giving or sending merit.
but out of that as a beginner, of course I have to be the one who gives good and interesting posts so that there are benefactors who want to give me awards according to their standards. and this award is very useful for newbies like me Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: Timelord2067 on January 05, 2022, 09:03:04 AM Quote from: Theymos If they complain about amounts, tell them to complain to me. It's best if sources try to exhaust their source allocations, even if it means giving posts higher amounts than is typical. If you have 150 source merit and you only see 3 merit-worthy posts in a month, then I'd rather you over-give each of them 50 merit than let the merit expire. That way there are more people capable of sending merit, and the "merit economy" is less top-down Well, if someone is a merit source and after a whole month they haven't found even four posts that are "worthy" of merits, then the question remains: "Are @theymos' choices for merit sources really that good that they can't find even *four posts* so they don't have to dump fifty posts on *just* three posts in a month?" That's one post per ten days (thereabouts) - just how active are these merit sources?" Quote from: Theymos That way there are more people capable of sending merit, and the "merit economy" is less top-down But they're not being passed down. Not really. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: joker_josue on January 05, 2022, 09:57:46 AM As with any statistics, I'm wondering how you've placed the merit senders in the order you've chosen? As I indicated at the beginning of the topic, I'm using the Top-200 from @Coin-1 as a base: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4523027.0 This top is from the beginning of merits. And analyze that I present is only the data from 2021, hence there are these differences in classification. It was just a way of choosing users to present. I didn't happen to remember using BPIP.org. Either as a side thread, or as a part of this thread, it'd be worth seeing if the second tier (i.e. first recipients of your TOP 50 list) actually do the hard yards and dispense the merits they have received, or, the merits bounce around at the top leaving many below languishing. I find this idea interesting. I can try to make this presentation below. Thanks for the tip! I've sent over a thousand merits in the last 120 days as an appropriate merit source, now tell me. How generosity does it need to be in a first position?! :P (jk I know you haven't finished) Here is friend: ;)
Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: Timelord2067 on January 05, 2022, 10:16:05 AM But they're not being passed down. Not really. Case in point: Here is friend: ;)
No offense to anyone named. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: KingsDen on January 05, 2022, 11:00:03 AM <snip> No matter the standard the merit source(s) set for issuing merits, there is no way a dedicated merit source cannot find atleast 10 merit worthy posts to distribute his smerits. Well, if someone is a merit source and after a whole month they haven't found even four posts that are "worthy" of merits, then the question remains: "Are @theymos' choices for merit sources really that good that they can't find even *four posts* so they don't have to dump fifty posts on *just* three posts in a month?" That's one post per ten days (thereabouts) - just how active are these merit sources?" Saying about @Theymos choices of merit sources, it seems that some merits sources did not apply to be one. Maybe it was just handed to them by @Theymos. You know the zeal to accomplish a task you applied for is different from the one used to accomish a task imposed on you. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: LoyceV on January 05, 2022, 11:11:11 AM But they're not being passed down. Not really. Case in point:
Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: naim027 on January 05, 2022, 11:30:46 AM Good work OP. Very informative. I never knew about your thread. I am using a notification Bot for mention and merits. I just figured out that you mentioned my name here. I am not that old member. I just woke up last year and make my come back to the forum. It's a good achievement for me that at least I got some merits from reputed members.
Anyways, Thank you very much. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: o_e_l_e_o on January 05, 2022, 11:46:46 AM Since I've been notified 5 times that I am being dragged in to this nonsense drama which is being stirred up, I feel obligated to respond.
I frequent the technical boards. If you make good posts in the technical boards, then I will merit you. I pay little attention to who has made the post. There are a small subset of users which frequently make such posts and so I will merit them more. Such scenarios are the case for many other users or groups of users who frequently send merit in the WO thread, in the collectibles section, in their local boards, etc. I would also point out that, at present, I have sent merit to the 6th highest number of unique users. Any further concerns about my merit cycling can be directed to Foxpup. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: BlackHatCoiner on January 05, 2022, 12:12:45 PM Case in point: If you want to complain about my meriting policy do it on the proper thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5348133). You don't convince me to wear the Foxpup's avatar for this blame. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: Timelord2067 on January 05, 2022, 12:50:12 PM (cue the DT Trolls who are about to say "if your posts had merit..." all the while distrusting me...) Not one...If you want to complain about a "Merit circle", you should find a circle that Merits shitposts. Not two... Any further concerns about my merit cycling can be directed to Foxpup. Three raw nerves hit in one post. If you want to complain about my meriting policy do it on the Good. Not that my post actually canvased that particular topic {1}, but still - nice to know you''re still trying to put spin on a bad decision. My point you missed in your haste to click {1} - My use of the phrase merit circle comes from the BPIP page (example: https://bpip.org/Profile?p=theymos ) second section "Merit Information" last entry "circle" Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: suchmoon on January 05, 2022, 01:14:15 PM (cue the DT Trolls who are about to say "if your posts had merit..." all the while distrusting me...) Not one...If you want to complain about a "Merit circle", you should find a circle that Merits shitposts. You're lucky LoyceV has the skin of a hippo: https://meem.link/i/undj7p25.png Although I doubt that your cringy begging here is going to earn you many other "merit fans". Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: Timelord2067 on January 05, 2022, 01:37:42 PM ... Time to let it go ... To quote what LoyceV has written on many an occasion... Quote from: LoyceV Don't like what someone has written about you? Boo Fucking Hoo! (but it is interesting that you appear to be making threats (https://ninjastic.space/post/58907741) on behalf of another person to withhold giving out merits...) Collusion? Or just bravado? Either way... Time to let it go... Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: suchmoon on January 05, 2022, 02:36:26 PM ~ Lead by example. Apply for a merit source position. theymos has given those out to scammers and shitcoiners and other dross so your chances are good. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: joker_josue on January 05, 2022, 02:51:17 PM Take it easy guys (or girls). This topic aims to have a different view of the path that merits take.
Perhaps many of us hadn't noticed before that the merits tend to "go back" to whoever gave them initially. There are many factors for this, but the main one I think is the fact that who is a source of merit tends to be someone who makes quality posts. One thing leads to another. So, despite finding an interesting analysis, no one escapes this fact: we receive merits from those who give. So it's not worth stressing about it. Each one has its own method of attributing merits. And the fact that there is no pre-established standard is what makes this tool impartial. Since each one gives the merits in the way that he/she thinks most suitable for him/her. Even those who receive and do not give merit have their value, due to the work they do in the community that deserves these merits. It is good to debate how merits are awarded. This shows other ideas of how they can be used, and allows some to change their criteria or refine them. So, guys, let's continue to build beautiful trees of merit! ;) EDIT: More trees of merit soon! 8) Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: BlackHatCoiner on January 05, 2022, 04:47:33 PM Good. Just for your information, I never applied for merit source, I just woke up in noon and saw a PM from theymos. I keep meriting the same way I did before, but more frequently and with higher amounts. There's literally nothing bad about that. Don't be ironic to me (and to my fellow merit cyclers), your moaning to theymos.BTW, merits have no value to people who are already above Sr. Member. It just shows respect. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: Timelord2067 on January 05, 2022, 09:41:07 PM ~ Lead by example. Apply for a merit source position. theymos has given those out to scammers and shitcoiners and other dross so your chances are good. Are you prepared in 2022 to wipe the slate clean and start again? Good. Just for your information, I never applied for merit source, I just woke up in noon and saw a PM from theymos. I keep meriting the same way I did before, but more frequently and with higher amounts. There's literally nothing bad about that. Don't be ironic to me (and to my fellow merit cyclers), your moaning to theymos.BTW, merits have no value to people who are already above Sr. Member. It just shows respect. I actually said one time that anyone who is a merit source should be excluded from receiving further merits as I noticed a while ago that merits have a way (with out any deliberate intentions) to resurface near their origins. I became Legendary prior to the merit system, so I look forward to the day I become "legendary" a second time having received ~1000 merits along with anyone trying to climb the ladder. We're good, you and I. Perhaps many of us hadn't noticed before that the merits tend to "go back" to whoever gave them initially. That is, in essence, was the point I was trying to make. Thanks for this thread, it's very insightful. See also:
More if I can find them. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: suchmoon on January 05, 2022, 11:09:31 PM Are you prepared in 2022 to wipe the slate clean and start again? I want no part of your riddles. My suggestion was for you to become part of a solution instead of blaming others for your perceived merit issues. Not that there is any actual issue. No one has ever produced any kind of damning list of good valuable posters being deprived of merits because there are circles or whatever. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: Timelord2067 on January 05, 2022, 11:26:15 PM Are you prepared in 2022 to wipe the slate clean and start again? I want no part of your riddles. My suggestion was for you to become part of a solution instead of blaming others for your perceived merit issues. Not that there is any actual issue. No one has ever produced any kind of damning list of good valuable posters being deprived of merits because there are circles or whatever. The ball is in your court.
Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: joker_josue on January 06, 2022, 07:54:02 AM Perhaps many of us hadn't noticed before that the merits tend to "go back" to whoever gave them initially. That is, in essence, was the point I was trying to make. Thanks for this thread, it's very insightful. But like I said, that's not a bad thing in itself! In fact, this will happen to everyone, whether they are a source of merit or not! I am not a source of merit and my tree indicates almost the same thing. Even when I give it to other users who are not a source of merit either. This is because we usually receive merit from users who browse the same areas of the forum as we do, and those who have merir to give are the ones who participate the most. So it is normal that they are also the ones who receive the most. But, when a new user starts to be participative, with quality, he also gradually starts to receive more and more merits, and a new cycle begins. That's how the merits have worked, and I think it has worked well. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: KingsDen on January 06, 2022, 09:15:17 AM I am not a source of merit and my tree indicates almost the same thing. Even when I give it to other users who are not a source of merit either. Same with me, when I noticed the merit gang of a thing is over emphasised, I had to check through my profile with LoyceV merit data.I noticed that the most 10 persons I send merits to are also my merit fans. I think it is just like that. The merit system is reciprocal. To be very honest, there is no how someone will send me upto 4merits which will give me 2 smerits that I will not be forced to check his profile to reciprocate. I am not sure it's the right thing to do, but I see myself doing it always. And there's no how I will visit the person's profile without seeing a merit worthy post. This is because it takes quality to detect quality. A good merit giver is also a quality poster. I believe the merit system is working fine I use myself as an example. During my member rank, I was bagging merits almost on daily basis. At a point I stopped making quality posts in engaging threads, I stopped creating topics nor help answer newbies questions. At this period, no matter how acquainted my merits fans were with my name, the merits stopped coming. It looked as if I was stucked for some months. Now I started engaging well again, my merits have started growing. So, it's all about consistency and availability. Even if there is a defect in the merit system, I believe it's infinitesimal. There is no ideal system anywhere, let's deal with what we have. Thanks! Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: o_e_l_e_o on January 06, 2022, 10:40:37 AM This is because we usually receive merit from users who browse the same areas of the forum as we do, and those who have merir to give are the ones who participate the most. Exactly this. Everybody (excluding bounty spammers) clearly reads the same sections that they post in. Therefore, you overlap with other users who read and post in the same sections as you. Therefore, small "merit circles" will naturally form between posters in each section. I mentioned this my earlier reply in this thread. At the same time, there are some highly merited users whom I have either barely merited or indeed not merited at all (or they me), because there is very little or no overlap in the sections in which we read and post.This is not some big conspiracy - it is a basic pattern of social interaction. To be very honest, there is no how someone will send me upto 4merits which will give me 2 smerits that I will not be forced to check his profile to reciprocate. I have to say, I have never once clicked on someone's profile to find a way to give merit back after they have merited me. Indeed, the only time I search profiles for good posts are when I come across newbies who aren't spammers.I would also repeat the statement I have made countless times, and invite anyone who thinks there are good posts or good posters going unmerited to flag them up in this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5093271.0 Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: suchmoon on January 06, 2022, 01:13:52 PM The ball is in your court. It's not. I can't make you a merit source, only theymos can. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: suchmoon on January 06, 2022, 05:22:43 PM i see😱 this merit tree. but cant get merits 😪 That's true. You can't because your post history is useless bounty hunting garbage. Thanks for proving that the merit system works. Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: joker_josue on January 08, 2022, 09:12:29 AM Top 1-10 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5379658.0#post_t10)
Top 11-30 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5379658.msg58890101#msg58890101) Top 31-50 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5379658.msg58898038#msg58898038) Top 51-75 (Some users may not appear, for not having given merits in 2021.)
Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: LoyceV on January 08, 2022, 10:08:17 AM Title: Re: Merits Tree 2021 - Who gives merits to whom Post by: joker_josue on January 08, 2022, 11:15:47 AM Tick "Don't use smileys.": Thanks for the tip! ;) It's not that the 8) stay came... but that's it, it's not what you want. ;D |
