Bitcoin Forum

Economy => Economics => Topic started by: Wind_FURY on January 03, 2022, 12:22:50 PM



Title: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Wind_FURY on January 03, 2022, 12:22:50 PM
Quote

President Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday that Turks should keep all their savings in lira and that recent exchange rate volatility was largely under control after the lira weakened sharply in the last two months.

"I want all my citizens to keep their savings in our own money, to run all their business with our own money, and I recommend this," Erdogan said in a speech in Istanbul.

"Let's not forget this: as long as we don't take our own money as a benchmark, we are doomed to sink. The Turkish Lira, our money, that is what we will go forward with. Not with this foreign currency, that foreign currency."

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/erdogan-calls-turks-keep-all-savings-lira-2021-12-31/


Who should be blamed for “that”, President Erdogan? You want everyone to hold the Turkish Lira, while your cabal inflate and deflate the currency according to your “mood”.

Bitcoin is the back up/fall back that we need.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Charles-Tim on January 03, 2022, 01:41:16 PM
What I have just known is that the world is not perfect. Like someone saying bitcoin has no value and many other wrong opinions about certain things. If I am the president of a country, I will support the fiat we are using even if their is inflation. Just that people have to know the right way, that fiat will always devalue and never appreciate over long term but depreciate.

Bitcoin is the back up/fall back that we need.
Comparing bitcoin and fiat, you are right. Bitcoin can be an hedge against fiat's depreciating value. With limited supply, decentralized design and wealth distribution in the world, only few people are still holding bitcoin, there will be more adoption and these will definitely help.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Upgrade00 on January 03, 2022, 01:46:23 PM
This is a clear example of how governments try to control the people by controlling the money, and the threat of having an alternative asset that the people can fall back to is one of their major concerns, reason why a lot of countries are banning their banks from being part of the network.

Bitcoin is the back up/fall back that we need.
It is, but we do not necessarily need to use it as only a back up, it can function way more than that.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: jackg on January 03, 2022, 03:09:55 PM
Countries will end up in a worse position though if they don't use their own currency (and switch to another country's fiat).

Bitcoin and most cryptocurrencies lack the throughput to allow mass adoption as a currency so far imo.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: BernyJB on January 03, 2022, 03:46:55 PM
Well, I guess it depends on the user and the government.
For example, in my case, cryptocurrencies allow me to escape my country's financial abuses, and trade internationally.

One example:

The international price for USD/ARS is, as of now, about 103 ARS to 1 USD.
Argentina's central bank (the BCRA) lists a price close to 109 (almost a 6% markup).
But trading foreign currencies is strictly forbidden in Argentina, so USD are just non-existent at that price.
Enter the black market dollar, or dollar "blue", which is, as of now, listed at $206, or 100% over the international price.

That means that I can buy USDT with ARS at the international price, and have an instant 100% profit by selling them at the "blue" price. I couldn't possibly do that without crypto.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Zilon on January 03, 2022, 03:55:12 PM
We wouldn't blame the Turkish government that much every nation is so concerned about their nations economy in regards to other foreign currency . Likewise Every government wants to know how much is in circulation and who owns what amount in other words the want to have total control of their citizens funds. But there is an alternative in cryptocurrency if the fiat system eventually fails and this is what most investors are looking up to in the near future


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: fiulpro on January 03, 2022, 04:07:25 PM
The financial system is certainly very tricky thing, if the government wants to force the citizens to hold their assets in their own currency then we can already be aware that they are not really doing great, for them to even make a statement of that kind makes the whole situation look stupid and takes it out in the open as well. I do think that controlling their citizen's own money is the reason they might have to rush to cryptocurrencies like *Bitcoins*, what if their currency collapses and their value declines drastically and during the wake of pandemic they are not able to cope up with the stress, then what ?


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Leviathan.007 on January 03, 2022, 06:04:01 PM
It was expected to see such a thing happening since bitcoin is created to provide us borderless transactions and economic freedom that's totally against what a government wants because usually whenever a government is in trouble they will try to make limitation on bank banks in international transactions to don't let people be able to extract their money from country to another country that's possible in fiat and traditional systems but suing bitcoin people can transfer any amount of money to any country they want, regarding Turks their government totally failed because they tried to take control over it in the first place but now as you can see they have no option but accepting the lose to bitcoin.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: hatshepsut93 on January 03, 2022, 11:55:22 PM
Bitcoin is the back up/fall back that we need.

Bitcoin experiences way bigger swings than Lira had, so it's not yet suitable to be an alternative to fiat for broad population. Even if you consider that fiat is devaluating in long term and Bitcoin is appreciating in long term, long term is not everything. Lots of people live from paycheck to paycheck, and for them both Bitcoin's volatility or price instability of fiat can be devastating. Imagine having a serious medical emergency while your savings just dropped in value by 50% a week ago.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: batang_bitcoin on January 04, 2022, 12:06:54 AM
I have just watched some relatively short videos about their economy and I know what he's pointing about "that foreign currency". I guess when bitcoin gets a more stable move countries like Turkey will eventually recommend it to their people. But due to the volatility, only a few countries are recommending it to their people and not as a currency but as an investment. Hopefully that Turkey won't go the same as Venezuela where they're just throwing their money on the streets due to hyper inflation.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: pinggoki on January 04, 2022, 03:38:23 AM
Countries will end up in a worse position though if they don't use their own currency (and switch to another country's fiat).

Bitcoin and most cryptocurrencies lack the throughput to allow mass adoption as a currency so far imo.
Exactly, and it's unlikely that a country would lose it's control over their banking system because that's basically the lifeblood of the nation and if you compare it to human body, you would find ways to stop the bleeding, maybe people who uses crypto will have something to fall back in but I don't think that it will be enough.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Wind_FURY on January 04, 2022, 06:14:43 AM
What I have just known is that the world is not perfect. Like someone saying bitcoin has no value and many other wrong opinions about certain things. If I am the president of a country, I will support the fiat we are using even if their is inflation. Just that people have to know the right way, that fiat will always devalue and never appreciate over long term but depreciate.


There’s nothing wrong in asking your people to help save the current financial system by not removing all trust in the State’s legal tender. BUT can we truly trust those people not scamming their own people? If you have a feasible fall back/back up available, HODL that.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Findingnemo on January 04, 2022, 06:34:13 AM
Quote

President Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday that Turks should keep all their savings in lira and that recent exchange rate volatility was largely under control after the lira weakened sharply in the last two months.

"I want all my citizens to keep their savings in our own money, to run all their business with our own money, and I recommend this," Erdogan said in a speech in Istanbul.

"Let's not forget this: as long as we don't take our own money as a benchmark, we are doomed to sink. The Turkish Lira, our money, that is what we will go forward with. Not with this foreign currency, that foreign currency."

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/erdogan-calls-turks-keep-all-savings-lira-2021-12-31/


Who should be blamed for “that”, President Erdogan? You want everyone to hold the Turkish Lira, while your cabal inflate and deflate the currency according to your “mood”.

Bitcoin is the back up/fall back that we need.
Meanwhile their central bank is printing money and liquidating them into the economy. ::) Some leaders provoke the people with such kind of patriotic statements and many will fall for them but people who understand all these things will save their money in some other form which can be USD or Gold or bitcoin but never going to be in the fiat format.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Charles-Tim on January 04, 2022, 07:53:47 AM
There’s nothing wrong in asking your people to help save the current financial system by not removing all trust in the State’s legal tender. BUT can we truly trust those people not scamming their own people? If you have a feasible fall back/back up available, HODL that.
When the world is full of lies and people are only on the side that favours them, why would they trust anyone. That is why education and seeking more knowledge is encouraging so we can do the best we should. The last thing I can never do is to hold my country's fiat, this is foolishness when there are other alternatives like holding bitcoin which is not depreciating like fiat.

people who understand all these things will save their money in some other form which can be USD or Gold or bitcoin but never going to be in the fiat format.
Why not bitcoin instead? USD is also fiat and any coin pegged with it are also depreciative as the USD is centrally controlled by the United States government. And in long term, USD price purchasing power reduce. Gold is better but it has been noticed that gold is appreciating in value not that in adoption in relation to continuous supply, but in fiat devaluation.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: davis196 on January 04, 2022, 12:04:55 PM
Quote
Who should be blamed for “that”, President Erdogan? You want everyone to hold the Turkish Lira, while your cabal inflate and deflate the currency according to your “mood”.

The Turkish government/central bank doesn't deliberately inflate or deflate the Turkish lira.
They were trying to stabilize the lira,but they are using the wrong approach.Lowering down the interest rates and pushing more money into the economy and finance sector will always backfire.
The confusing behavior of the central bank and the government also made more people to lose fate in them and to sell their lira for other currencies and financial assets.
This is not how you build trust in a country's national currency.This is the exact opposite.
Perhaps Erdogan have lost his mind and/or he's too old to govern the country.I hope that the situation will normalize soon.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: AicecreaME on January 04, 2022, 01:18:15 PM
It's really not advisable to just depend on what the government can offer the citizens because oftentimes, the government is the one who keeps on disappointing and making irresponsible and bad decisions on the behalf of their constituents. Hence, relying on them and trusting them big time is not a good idea. There are even times that the government abandons the whole country just for their own sake. That's why I suggest working smart and having a backup plan just in case things go wrong and the government can do nothing about it, then you have less to worry about.

With this being said, having to invest in bitcoin and crypto, in general, is a good thing because, in case of an economic decline, we'll have our funds slightly unaffected by the sudden transition and change. We can easily bounce back and move forward with the help of our safe haven if ever something bad happens. Not totally the same scenario, but almost, which is happening today that we are still in the middle of a pandemic. When the government seemed helpless as well due to the chains of problems arising and having little funds to sustain the needs of the citizens, we, who have crypto managed to survive little by little.

I just hope that this won't happen anytime soon because of course, not all of us have the same privilege. There are also people who are unaware of crypto and they would surely be helpless if ever this happens, which I really hope won't occur.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: dezoel on January 04, 2022, 07:09:56 PM
It was expected to see such a thing happening since bitcoin is created to provide us borderless transactions and economic freedom that's totally against what a government wants because usually whenever a government is in trouble they will try to make limitation on bank banks in international transactions to don't let people be able to extract their money from country to another country that's possible in fiat and traditional systems but suing bitcoin people can transfer any amount of money to any country they want, regarding Turks their government totally failed because they tried to take control over it in the first place but now as you can see they have no option but accepting the lose to bitcoin.
This is exactly what I had recently. My wife's aunt is a very rich person, she even went to the most expensive hospital in all of our nation when she got sick last summer and I saw the difference there, when you imagine a wealthy and expensive hospital, this was even better than that.

Recently she decided to look for other methods of "hiding" her money, not that it was an illegally made money, it was literally just money she collected from rents she is a landlord, but she doesn't like government having control over it, at least ours. So, she is holding it in Portugal right now, in a bank again, but she trust there more than she trusts here but she pays so much. I told her, she could simply get BUSD and put it on Binance, free of charge, hell may get some staking out of it as well if I am not wrong. Of course she didn't get it, she is 80 years old, but the fact that it is literally "there", proves that so many things crypto helps people, like even things I didn't even know.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Gozie51 on January 04, 2022, 08:04:21 PM
Countries will end up in a worse position though if they don't use their own currency (and switch to another country's fiat).


Every country wants to be independent of another country despite how small it is this is why countries are breaking up to form there own independence and currency identification is a very important factor for every country, this is a challenge for bitcoin to unifying all financial system.


Bitcoin and most cryptocurrencies lack the throughput to allow mass adoption as a currency so far imo.


Mass adoption for bitcoin is still a huge challenge because there are blocs of continent and countries that are not looking positive for acceptance of bitcoin like El Salvador.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Fortify on January 04, 2022, 09:10:16 PM
Quote

President Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday that Turks should keep all their savings in lira and that recent exchange rate volatility was largely under control after the lira weakened sharply in the last two months.

"I want all my citizens to keep their savings in our own money, to run all their business with our own money, and I recommend this," Erdogan said in a speech in Istanbul.

"Let's not forget this: as long as we don't take our own money as a benchmark, we are doomed to sink. The Turkish Lira, our money, that is what we will go forward with. Not with this foreign currency, that foreign currency."

Who should be blamed for “that”, President Erdogan? You want everyone to hold the Turkish Lira, while your cabal inflate and deflate the currency according to your “mood”.

Bitcoin is the back up/fall back that we need.

I'm not sure what your point is exactly? The Turkish currency would have self corrected if the central bank had been left independently and sensibly followed past evidence which showed that rising interest rates can help to tame inflation. Instead, this religious nutjob who will forever be paranoid since people who wanted to defend a secular nation unfortunately failed at their chance to overthrow him, has and continues to inflict severe damage on the Turkish economy. He has wasted countless foreign reserves trying to prop up the currency which collapsed due to his own ignorance and narrow sighted belief. Unfortunately it looks like Turkey will continue getting poorer while this guy stays in charge, but the correlation with cryptocurrency is pretty weak.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: GeorgeJohn on January 04, 2022, 09:15:32 PM
Countries will end up in a worse position though if they don't use their own currency (and switch to another country's fiat).

Bitcoin and most cryptocurrencies lack the throughput to allow mass adoption as a currency so far imo.
In addition no country that will like to adopt a strange currency fully, because the development of a country started with it's value of currency, from my perspective bitcoin adoption of countries doesn't deprived them not to value their own currency, no country can purposely Abandoned it's Fiat currency and adopt a currency that is not really or fully in line with it's currency, except the country want to adventure into hardship and also experience lack of infrastructure that will enable them to undergoes a tangible project for better development of their country.



Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: paxmao on January 04, 2022, 09:42:39 PM
Tayyip seems to be following what could be classed as an "alt-policy" to what is considered by most as the standard recipe to fight inflation and to make an economy more solid. The problem is that he is just reinventing the wheel and he is probably well aware of it. There is no way that his current policy does not end in an inflationary crisis and possibly into open civil war. That is real cost of irresponsibility.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Findingnemo on January 05, 2022, 12:24:37 AM
people who understand all these things will save their money in some other form which can be USD or Gold or bitcoin but never going to be in the fiat format.
Why not bitcoin instead? USD is also fiat and any coin pegged with it are also depreciative as the USD is centrally controlled by the United States government. And in long term, USD price purchasing power reduce. Gold is better but it has been noticed that gold is appreciating in value not that in adoption in relation to continuous supply, but in fiat devaluation.
USD is kind of better and stronger compared to all the fiat that is why I included USD who said save and hoard the fiat which is losing its value more. But investing on fiat is not an investment, its just the stupidity and no investor will ever do this.

When it comes to Gold, its already proven because it exists here for centuries so add that into your list as well and bitcoin which is highly volatile but until now it gave too much returns to the people who HODL it for years.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Darker45 on January 05, 2022, 03:55:13 AM
I have long thought that Turkey is doing good or at least not really into a sort of an economic quicksand. Turkey's Erdogan looked quite promising at the start. And his ascent to power probably even brought with it a significant economic growth to the country. But then he sort of grew into a power-hungry and greedy dictator who loves a one-man rule. I guess it contributed much to Turkey's economic downfall. And then came the pandemic. And that must have served as the final nail in the coffin.

Erdogan is now delusional to tell the people to continue holding on to the Turkish Lira when inflation has already gone through the roof. It's natural for the people to look for alternatives. The problem is that almost all fiat currencies these days are suffering from the same inflation illness. Well, Bitcoin has indeed become an option.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Poker Player on January 05, 2022, 04:47:11 AM
Who should be blamed for “that”, President Erdogan?

Definitely Erdogan. This is a guy whose solution to inflation is to print more. Brilliant. I don't know how he hasn't been awarded the Nobel Prize in economics yet. The Turkish lira was the worst performing currency in 2021:

How Erdogan’s dictatorial economics is fuelling Turkey’s inflation, throwing lira off track. (https://theprint.in/world/how-erdogans-dictatorial-economics-is-fuelling-turkeys-inflation-throwing-lira-off-track/771869/)

He wants his citizens to use and save a junk currency that due to his policy is worth much less every day and the attitude of the citizens is to do the opposite. It is the logical thing to do and it has been happening this way for the whole history of mankind since the Romans started to devalue gold and silver coins by mixing them with other metals.



Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: TheNineClub on January 05, 2022, 06:21:07 AM
It could be a fall back if a certain country's inflation goes through the roof. But what I am worried is people thinking that crypto is a fallback in case of a global recesion. Ifnthat happens then everything falls to a certain extent. So the bottom line is, when everything is ok, then crypto is ok, but if everything falls, be damn sure that it will take crypto with itself. Not saying crypto would wanish, just saying it wouldn't be the saviour we all hope for (and this is not FUD on my side, I am a firm proponent of crypto)


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: avikz on January 05, 2022, 06:39:40 AM
It could be a fall back if a certain country's inflation goes through the roof. But what I am worried is people thinking that crypto is a fallback in case of a global recesion. Ifnthat happens then everything falls to a certain extent. So the bottom line is, when everything is ok, then crypto is ok, but if everything falls, be damn sure that it will take crypto with itself. Not saying crypto would wanish, just saying it wouldn't be the saviour we all hope for (and this is not FUD on my side, I am a firm proponent of crypto)

Can't strongly disagree with you! As of now, we have seen a correlation between the global stock markets and crypto market. The crypto market follows the global stock market at every major events. So it is very uncertain to say that crypto can become a fallback in case the government controlled currencies fail.

But do we really have an alternative except gold?


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: oHnK on January 05, 2022, 03:14:34 PM
Maybe my way of thinking was wrong, but I couldn't blame President Erdogan because he was actually not only hostile to BTC but the more important thing now is USD. Fiat received throughout the country is USD, when inflation is so high he presses the speed of circulation of money by storing lira. That is the right policy. Inflation in the Fiat-based economic system will never be lost, so what is done is to control the speed of circulation. When the inflation is high and the community buys USD to be saved because of its more promising value, this is a suicide action if it is massive. So, this appeal is one of the steps that the government can do as management in the country.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: dothebeats on January 05, 2022, 06:15:29 PM
I just can't understand why there are 'leaders' who direct their people towards doom. It's obvious that the Turkish Lira isn't up to par with other currencies as of the moment, and it's bad advice to let people hold their assets in the local currency especially if the government doesn't do anything to make things work.

If I were a Turkish holding some assets on my local currency, I'd be sure to look for other options and save my hard-earned money.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: ChiBitCTy on January 05, 2022, 07:20:03 PM
Quote

President Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday that Turks should keep all their savings in lira and that recent exchange rate volatility was largely under control after the lira weakened sharply in the last two months.

"I want all my citizens to keep their savings in our own money, to run all their business with our own money, and I recommend this," Erdogan said in a speech in Istanbul.

"Let's not forget this: as long as we don't take our own money as a benchmark, we are doomed to sink. The Turkish Lira, our money, that is what we will go forward with. Not with this foreign currency, that foreign currency."

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/erdogan-calls-turks-keep-all-savings-lira-2021-12-31/


Who should be blamed for “that”, President Erdogan? You want everyone to hold the Turkish Lira, while your cabal inflate and deflate the currency according to your “mood”.

Bitcoin is the back up/fall back that we need.

Yeah this is insane for a president to go out and say to their citizens.  This just shows you how unstable they are.  If my president came out and said that, I would buy as much bitcoin as humanely possible.  Obviously all that does is show you how weak their economy and fiat currency is and shows you that they expect more issues ahead.

I mean what would you think if your president came out and said something like this.  I would fear my country would be going down the route of Venezuela.  When I think of that, I just think of all the photos of paper notes just laying all over in the streets and in garage bens. 


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Peanutswar on January 05, 2022, 10:20:59 PM
This is the reason why the fiat currency is one of the factors in the economy I guess they want to try to improve themselves first before getting promoted to the other which is a good thing but they will become a sleeping giant still need to handle transportation and transaction to another country, not all the things they are capable to handle only by themselves. We cannot forget the value of the bitcoin on it because there an impact on the currency if we are talking about bitcoin it self it's doesn't matter as 1:1 but if we are talking about the value want to exchange it matters so good to buy but it suffers the other holders.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Kasabus on January 05, 2022, 11:50:42 PM
Quote

President Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday that Turks should keep all their savings in lira and that recent exchange rate volatility was largely under control after the lira weakened sharply in the last two months.

"I want all my citizens to keep their savings in our own money, to run all their business with our own money, and I recommend this," Erdogan said in a speech in Istanbul.

"Let's not forget this: as long as we don't take our own money as a benchmark, we are doomed to sink. The Turkish Lira, our money, that is what we will go forward with. Not with this foreign currency, that foreign currency."

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/erdogan-calls-turks-keep-all-savings-lira-2021-12-31/


Who should be blamed for “that”, President Erdogan? You want everyone to hold the Turkish Lira, while your cabal inflate and deflate the currency according to your “mood”.

Bitcoin is the back up/fall back that we need.

Yeah this is insane for a president to go out and say to their citizens.  This just shows you how unstable they are.  If my president came out and said that, I would buy as much bitcoin as humanely possible.  Obviously all that does is show you how weak their economy and fiat currency is and shows you that they expect more issues ahead.

I mean what would you think if your president came out and said something like this.  I would fear my country would be going down the route of Venezuela.  When I think of that, I just think of all the photos of paper notes just laying all over in the streets and in garage bens. 
This will cause panic in most of the citizens knowing that the country will eventually fall if they will stick to foreign currencies rather than their own currency. I just hope the president will be more transparent and open minded at least and will start to realize that bitcoin is the best solution to their problem. Or maybe just let the citizens do what they want to do and give them the freedom to use bitcoin because that will improve the individual's economy. If there is nothing good the government can do, then leave them to the citizens as they are more aware on how to make progress and bitcoin will certainly make it happen.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: cabron on January 06, 2022, 12:24:03 AM

Finance System is just crumbling not just in Turkey though. We can see the FED also has announcements every now and then because they know it's coming. Covid causes this worldwide recession as it affects everything from people's health, production to supply chain 

It's also the reason why wealthy individuals are just buying gold, properties and probably today they are buying lots of goods to store because by the next few days the prices of those canned goods or gas will double.



Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Wind_FURY on January 06, 2022, 09:06:24 AM
Countries will end up in a worse position though if they don't use their own currency (and switch to another country's fiat).

Bitcoin and most cryptocurrencies lack the throughput to allow mass adoption as a currency so far imo.

In addition no country that will like to adopt a strange currency fully, because the development of a country started with it's value of currency, from my perspective bitcoin adoption of countries doesn't deprived them not to value their own currency, no country can purposely Abandoned it's Fiat currency and adopt a currency that is not really or fully in line with it's currency, except the country want to adventure into hardship and also experience lack of infrastructure that will enable them to undergoes a tangible project for better development of their country.


But the point is, no one in the government is truly taking care of your self-interest, or should be taking care of your self-interest except yourself. They’re making you poor because of currency debasement, what should you do? Buy the DIP and?

Who cares if your country accepts Bitcoin as legal tender or not. From our standpoint, it doesn’t need to be legal tender to be used by people as a currency.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: kryptqnick on January 06, 2022, 11:35:42 AM
In my country, people use our local fiat for everyday life, of course, because it's usually the only currency accepted in shops and other places, but I don't know anyone who actually keeps savings in local fiat. Our inflation rate is at around 8%, and add to that the fact that every 7 years or so something very bad happens and the currency loses value by 2x or so. Cryptos are quite popular in my country because inflation isn't greatly managed, and those who are more traditional simply store savings in EUR or the USD. Given that lira is currently experiencing a 36% inflation rate, I think it's perfectly reasonable that people try to move to other currencies, and Erdogan saying otherwise won't stop them.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: jrrsparkles on January 06, 2022, 07:48:26 PM
Every citizen is going to use their local Fiat as the medium of exchange because its not possible to use a gold or other Fiat in your country and also most people will keep some money as their savings but if someone keep all their money in the form of Fiat over any other asset actually they are losing its value everyday and its purely lack of responsibility from the government.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: wxa7115 on January 06, 2022, 08:47:35 PM
Quote

President Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday that Turks should keep all their savings in lira and that recent exchange rate volatility was largely under control after the lira weakened sharply in the last two months.

"I want all my citizens to keep their savings in our own money, to run all their business with our own money, and I recommend this," Erdogan said in a speech in Istanbul.

"Let's not forget this: as long as we don't take our own money as a benchmark, we are doomed to sink. The Turkish Lira, our money, that is what we will go forward with. Not with this foreign currency, that foreign currency."

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/erdogan-calls-turks-keep-all-savings-lira-2021-12-31/


Who should be blamed for “that”, President Erdogan? You want everyone to hold the Turkish Lira, while your cabal inflate and deflate the currency according to your “mood”.

Bitcoin is the back up/fall back that we need.
That is basically what they want, governments want to steal the purchasing power of your money while at the same time you do nothing to defend yourself, this is the equivalent of someone point a knife at you and somehow being unable to use your right to self-defense.

And as you may guess it does not matter how powerful they believe they are this is never going to work, then when the currency the government has been printing like crazy devalues they blame people for not being patriot enough to lose everything they have worked during their lives and accept the government to take it away.

Ridiculous I know, but that is what those politicians actually think.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: freedomgo on January 06, 2022, 09:43:08 PM
Quote

President Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday that Turks should keep all their savings in lira and that recent exchange rate volatility was largely under control after the lira weakened sharply in the last two months.

"I want all my citizens to keep their savings in our own money, to run all their business with our own money, and I recommend this," Erdogan said in a speech in Istanbul.

"Let's not forget this: as long as we don't take our own money as a benchmark, we are doomed to sink. The Turkish Lira, our money, that is what we will go forward with. Not with this foreign currency, that foreign currency."

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/erdogan-calls-turks-keep-all-savings-lira-2021-12-31/


Who should be blamed for “that”, President Erdogan? You want everyone to hold the Turkish Lira, while your cabal inflate and deflate the currency according to your “mood”.

Bitcoin is the back up/fall back that we need.
That is basically what they want, governments want to steal the purchasing power of your money while at the same time you do nothing to defend yourself, this is the equivalent of someone point a knife at you and somehow being unable to use your right to self-defense.

And as you may guess it does not matter how powerful they believe they are this is never going to work, then when the currency the government has been printing like crazy devalues they blame people for not being patriot enough to lose everything they have worked during their lives and accept the government to take it away.

Ridiculous I know, but that is what those politicians actually think.
You already know how selfish they are when it comes to that. While the citizens are sinking into poverty, the government officials are even making progress in their own personal lives. I actually think there's no wrong investing or saving from bitcoin because that will actually generate profits in the future. The problem is within the close mindset of the president as he is trying to manipulate his citizens not to use bitcoin or other foreign currencies. Before we knew it, they are already secretly involved in it and are already making profits. That's the worst scenario i guess.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Kyraishi on January 06, 2022, 11:46:59 PM
Lol, if the Turkish lira is ousted as the national currency I think everyone would rejoice.

The fact is that there are a lot of countries that are currently operating a hybrid/foreign currency based monetary system, e.g. a lot of African countries have adopted USD as their sovereign currency as opposed to issuing their own.

That's actually quite smart given the fact that their own financial management system is just too incompetent.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Reid on January 07, 2022, 08:05:52 AM
We can't blame the president on that. He cannot tell his people to "Buy USD or Bitcoin, you are safe there." That's like admitting to be a traitor of your own country. He still need to save what is left even if the value of it is depreciating. Being patriotic first before looking for an alternative.
Bitcoin as a reserve, yes that will help but he need to find a way to solve the issue in front of him first before jumping to another. I don't know the deep issue about their financial system but is it because there is no usage of their own currency (people saving too much money) or is it just because of the high interest rates that caused the inflation?


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Wind_FURY on January 07, 2022, 09:36:30 AM
In my country, people use our local fiat for everyday life, of course, because it's usually the only currency accepted in shops and other places, but I don't know anyone who actually keeps savings in local fiat. Our inflation rate is at around 8%, and add to that the fact that every 7 years or so something very bad happens and the currency loses value by 2x or so.


It’s not on what the current level of inflation is, it’s simply HODL Bitcoin because you can’t trust the cabal that runs the whole economic-financial-industrial complex. We plebs are plebs because they are rigging the system against you, making you poor, your descendants poor. HODLing Bitcoin is the cure.

Quote

Cryptos are quite popular in my country because inflation isn't greatly managed, and those who are more traditional simply store savings in EUR or the USD. Given that lira is currently experiencing a 36% inflation rate, I think it's perfectly reasonable that people try to move to other currencies, and Erdogan saying otherwise won't stop them.


Merely converting from a cabal, to another cabal. 8)


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: SquallLeonhart on January 07, 2022, 09:34:03 PM
I just can't understand why there are 'leaders' who direct their people towards doom. It's obvious that the Turkish Lira isn't up to par with other currencies as of the moment, and it's bad advice to let people hold their assets in the local currency especially if the government doesn't do anything to make things work.

If I were a Turkish holding some assets on my local currency, I'd be sure to look for other options and save my hard-earned money.
Unfortunately political power comes before making a nation better. If you the options are A) Make the nation better but lose elections versus B) Make the nation worse but win the elections then politicians will always pick option B. You may think "how on earth could you lose elections if you are making the nation better?" but that is how politics works.

If you steal and ruin a nation that means you have a ton of tax income and have a lot of ways to make people around you richer, the media, the rich, the powerful all get money from you and they will promote you and make you look like god, but that requires you to make the nation worse. Whereas if you make the nation better than you will not steal and since you won't then you can't bribe the powerful and they won't back you and they will back the person who will bribe them instead which is how they win elections.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Gyfts on January 07, 2022, 09:43:00 PM
I just can't understand why there are 'leaders' who direct their people towards doom. It's obvious that the Turkish Lira isn't up to par with other currencies as of the moment, and it's bad advice to let people hold their assets in the local currency especially if the government doesn't do anything to make things work.

If I were a Turkish holding some assets on my local currency, I'd be sure to look for other options and save my hard-earned money.

It's a direction towards self preservation, and Turkey is all but a dictatorship, so the self preservation is essentially government institutions maintaining themselves. And Erdogan has attempted to silence his political opponents in the past placing them under arrest, so his intent is clear that he doesn't care about his constituents.

The theme repeats itself - government functioning against its citizens, and consolidation of power disrupts any sense of democratic rule.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: ajochems on January 07, 2022, 10:03:42 PM
Quote

President Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday that Turks should keep all their savings in lira and that recent exchange rate volatility was largely under control after the lira weakened sharply in the last two months.

"I want all my citizens to keep their savings in our own money, to run all their business with our own money, and I recommend this," Erdogan said in a speech in Istanbul.

"Let's not forget this: as long as we don't take our own money as a benchmark, we are doomed to sink. The Turkish Lira, our money, that is what we will go forward with. Not with this foreign currency, that foreign currency."

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/erdogan-calls-turks-keep-all-savings-lira-2021-12-31/


Who should be blamed for “that”, President Erdogan? You want everyone to hold the Turkish Lira, while your cabal inflate and deflate the currency according to your “mood”.

Bitcoin is the back up/fall back that we need.

True.Eventhough cryptocurrency rule the money flow and market. Bank are the control of government. In the legalized county, government control the people to by bank in a short period. The bank say the card holder, just buy limited amount of cryptocurrency and you will be paid huge tax. If you had failed.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Wind_FURY on January 08, 2022, 11:45:08 AM
I just can't understand why there are 'leaders' who direct their people towards doom. It's obvious that the Turkish Lira isn't up to par with other currencies as of the moment, and it's bad advice to let people hold their assets in the local currency especially if the government doesn't do anything to make things work.

If I were a Turkish holding some assets on my local currency, I'd be sure to look for other options and save my hard-earned money.
Unfortunately political power comes before making a nation better. If you the options are A) Make the nation better but lose elections versus B) Make the nation worse but win the elections then politicians will always pick option B. You may think "how on earth could you lose elections if you are making the nation better?" but that is how politics works.

If you steal and ruin a nation that means you have a ton of tax income and have a lot of ways to make people around you richer, the media, the rich, the powerful all get money from you and they will promote you and make you look like god, but that requires you to make the nation worse. Whereas if you make the nation better than you will not steal and since you won't then you can't bribe the powerful and they won't back you and they will back the person who will bribe them instead which is how they win elections.


Tin-foil hats on, everyone in the top 10% wants to terminate the middle-class, and put them below the poverty line where they will be the new slave-class that’s easier to control, easier to manipulate, and easier to oppress. BUT if only there was a self-sovereign, censorship-resistant cryptocurrency they cannot control. 8)


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Argoo on January 08, 2022, 01:57:50 PM
In general, Turkish President Erdogan did the right thing by urging his citizens to keep their savings in the national lira and use it for financial settlements. This will strengthen the national currency. The economy of each state is a very complex mechanism; there cannot be simple solutions.
Bitcoin should always be a fallback and nothing more. Anyway, until his current problems are resolved.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Kakmakr on January 08, 2022, 06:47:39 PM
Well that is something that Robert Mugabe was saying about the Zimbabwean Dollar and we all know what happened with that Fiat currency.  ::)  People are more clever than most politicians think they are.... they will look for currencies with a store of value ..and dump their wealth into that.  ;)

You cannot run a country into the ground and expect your citizens to support a failing economy... people will do anything to protect their wealth and their hard earned income.  ;)


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Wind_FURY on January 09, 2022, 09:25:19 AM
Well that is something that Robert Mugabe was saying about the Zimbabwean Dollar and we all know what happened with that Fiat currency.  ::)  People are more clever than most politicians think they are.... they will look for currencies with a store of value ..and dump their wealth into that.  ;)


If there was only some anonymous programmer invented a self-sovereign, decentralized, censorship-resistant, hard money, with supply and issuance that’s embedded in the protocol. 8)

Quote

You cannot run a country into the ground and expect your citizens to support a failing economy... people will do anything to protect their wealth and their hard earned income. ;)


I would support a failing economy, IF I knew the cabal that runs everything tried their best to take care of the interests of the people. 8)


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Sterbens on January 09, 2022, 04:39:07 PM
Quote

President Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday that Turks should keep all their savings in lira and that recent exchange rate volatility was largely under control after the lira weakened sharply in the last two months.

"I want all my citizens to keep their savings in our own money, to run all their business with our own money, and I recommend this," Erdogan said in a speech in Istanbul.

"Let's not forget this: as long as we don't take our own money as a benchmark, we are doomed to sink. The Turkish Lira, our money, that is what we will go forward with. Not with this foreign currency, that foreign currency."

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/erdogan-calls-turks-keep-all-savings-lira-2021-12-31/


Who should be blamed for “that”, President Erdogan? You want everyone to hold the Turkish Lira, while your cabal inflate and deflate the currency according to your “mood”.

Bitcoin is the back up/fall back that we need.

Bitcoin as the safest backup? of course, because we have felt it until now. But the question is whether the Turkish president will take it for granted? and what's more difficult is that we don't have a balanced capacity for the presidential class. That's why we don't know the situation of foreign countries as a whole. Maybe there are things that we don't know so far about the intricacies of the Turkish economy.

I agree that Bitcoin is a proper repository, but what if it's just a temporary alternative? and when all is well, the economy in the country has recovered, they then leave Bitcoin. Is that something worth suggesting?

We don't like people who only use Bitcoin for the run. Because if such principles are instilled, then Bitcoin adoption will not work as it should.

Again I agree that Bitcoin is a store of value, and never forget gold. But if it's just for a temporary storage alternative, then what about the risks in the end once everything is restored? What happened to Bitcoin? will we be angry with the Turkish President's decision later that they will sell all Bitcoins to return to the Turkish Lira?


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Oceat on January 09, 2022, 06:34:11 PM
Every citizen is going to use their local Fiat as the medium of exchange because its not possible to use a gold or other Fiat in your country and also most people will keep some money as their savings but if someone keep all their money in the form of Fiat over any other asset actually they are losing its value everyday and its purely lack of responsibility from the government.
And do you think people would let their hard earned money to just gone if they don't like the government? People are wise enough not to support their falling economy in their country if they saw a corruption in the government. Bitcoin is the only way they can save their money from going down in value. The government have to fix their economy first if they want their people to continue to support them or else they will follow to the other countries who just did suffer from inflation/deflation.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: fullhdpixel on January 09, 2022, 09:35:31 PM
Who should be blamed for “that”, President Erdogan? You want everyone to hold the Turkish Lira, while your cabal inflate and deflate the currency according to your “mood”.

Bitcoin is the back up/fall back that we need.
Governments around the world lost the control of the financial system long time ago. This is exactly why I am in the crypto space to begin with. My nation is as corrupted as it gets and all of our tax money goes to pockets of few people in the end, even though it looks like it is circulating via many different people and those people are rich as well, in the end maybe like a few billion dollars is going into the pockets of a million corrupted people and then rest of tens of billions of dollars goes to places like cayman islands of the accounts of big political names.

That is why I haven't been in fiat for so long, I spend fiat when I need to but that is about it and I am not going to do anything else with it. Just going to keep all of my money in crypto and will focus on saving that up as long as I can without having to sell any of it until I am retired, hopefully not much after that neither.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Wind_FURY on January 10, 2022, 12:58:21 PM
Quote

President Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday that Turks should keep all their savings in lira and that recent exchange rate volatility was largely under control after the lira weakened sharply in the last two months.

"I want all my citizens to keep their savings in our own money, to run all their business with our own money, and I recommend this," Erdogan said in a speech in Istanbul.

"Let's not forget this: as long as we don't take our own money as a benchmark, we are doomed to sink. The Turkish Lira, our money, that is what we will go forward with. Not with this foreign currency, that foreign currency."

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/erdogan-calls-turks-keep-all-savings-lira-2021-12-31/


Who should be blamed for “that”, President Erdogan? You want everyone to hold the Turkish Lira, while your cabal inflate and deflate the currency according to your “mood”.

Bitcoin is the back up/fall back that we need.

Bitcoin as the safest backup? of course, because we have felt it until now. But the question is whether the Turkish president will take it for granted? and what's more difficult is that we don't have a balanced capacity for the presidential class. That's why we don't know the situation of foreign countries as a whole. Maybe there are things that we don't know so far about the intricacies of the Turkish economy.

I agree that Bitcoin is a proper repository, but what if it's just a temporary alternative? and when all is well, the economy in the country has recovered, they then leave Bitcoin. Is that something worth suggesting?

We don't like people who only use Bitcoin for the run. Because if such principles are instilled, then Bitcoin adoption will not work as it should.

Again I agree that Bitcoin is a store of value, and never forget gold. But if it's just for a temporary storage alternative, then what about the risks in the end once everything is restored? What happened to Bitcoin? will we be angry with the Turkish President's decision later that they will sell all Bitcoins to return to the Turkish Lira?


WHO CARES what the Turkish president wants to do, or not do. Bitcoin is censorship-resistant, it can’t truly be banned, censored, or stopped from exisiting, stopped from being the fall back/HODL-coin that everyone needs to survive. The cat is out of the bag.



Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Sterbens on January 10, 2022, 01:41:32 PM
WHO CARES what the Turkish president wants to do, or not do. Bitcoin is censorship-resistant, it can’t truly be banned, censored, or stopped from exisiting, stopped from being the fall back/HODL-coin that everyone needs to survive. The cat is out of the bag.


Therefore, allowing Bitcoin to be adopted by those who really want to live together, not just as an alternative use. Let the President of Turkey decide whether to stick with the Lira or try Bitcoin. Though not too sure it will succumb to bitcoin adoption. However, the pace of a country's economy will be determined by the policies they have set.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Wind_FURY on January 11, 2022, 09:58:35 AM

WHO CARES what the Turkish president wants to do, or not do. Bitcoin is censorship-resistant, it can’t truly be banned, censored, or stopped from exisiting, stopped from being the fall back/HODL-coin that everyone needs to survive. The cat is out of the bag.


Therefore, allowing Bitcoin to be adopted by those who really want to live together, not just as an alternative use. Let the President of Turkey decide whether to stick with the Lira or try Bitcoin. Though not too sure it will succumb to bitcoin adoption. However, the pace of a country's economy will be determined by the policies they have set.


Bitcoin doesn’t need to be “adopted” as a “legal tender” by a country’s “government” to be truly adopted. Simply, use it, and the more of you that use it, then that’s a sign of truly being adopted. It starts with buying and HODLing, because HODLing is using.

That sounded stupid. 8)


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: aysg76 on January 11, 2022, 12:02:28 PM
Bitcoin is the back up/fall back that we need.

Bitcoin experiences way bigger swings than Lira had, so it's not yet suitable to be an alternative to fiat for broad population. Even if you consider that fiat is devaluating in long term and Bitcoin is appreciating in long term, long term is not everything. Lots of people live from paycheck to paycheck, and for them both Bitcoin's volatility or price instability of fiat can be devastating. Imagine having a serious medical emergency while your savings just dropped in value by 50% a week ago.
Acceptance of Bitcoin doesn't implicitly implies that complete dumping of fiat because it can't be done as still it is not regulated and accepted in most of the countries which creates many different problematic scenarios for all of us.We still need fiat to carry out our daily needs and expenses like you said btc is not suitable in medical emergency cases at this time as it could be down but the fact that fiat have lost more than it's original value cannot be ignored as well.

We need to take btc as investment perspective at this time and hold for long and it will matter in that period because at this time it may be sounding weird to us but the inflation is now at high levels in some countries and over it some countries are witnessing hyper inflation situation and fiat have been in continuous loss like Lira has witnessed insane depletion in value due to rise in prices and government is unable to control it.This will sooner or later happen with each fiat so we need to be prepared and btc is best alternative for the same.It is deflationary although volatile but at one point it will be reduced when more people will accept it.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: S A KHAIR on January 12, 2022, 01:45:10 PM
<>
Who should be blamed for “that”, President Erdogan? You want everyone to hold the Turkish Lira, while your cabal inflate and deflate the currency according to your “mood”.

Bitcoin is the back up/fall back that we need.

As we all know, public finances are an important part of the economy.

In this case, we can use the statement of economist Musgrave,
Quote
"The most complex problem that revolves around government revenue and expenditure is called public finance."
source: https://www.jstor.org/stable/133460

Government control over the economy is needed to manage the economy of any country. If the government loses this control the people of that country will face a big problem in their lives and the collapse of that country is inevitable.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: wxa7115 on January 12, 2022, 11:03:27 PM
We can't blame the president on that. He cannot tell his people to "Buy USD or Bitcoin, you are safe there." That's like admitting to be a traitor of your own country. He still need to save what is left even if the value of it is depreciating. Being patriotic first before looking for an alternative.
Bitcoin as a reserve, yes that will help but he need to find a way to solve the issue in front of him first before jumping to another. I don't know the deep issue about their financial system but is it because there is no usage of their own currency (people saving too much money) or is it just because of the high interest rates that caused the inflation?
When inflation is hitting every sector of the economy there is only one explanation for this, and that is that the government in turn is printing too much money.

Now if the governments cared as much as they say about their citizens they should encourage people to find ways to defend themselves from the mistakes they made, but we know they are never going to do that, so instead they do the opposite hoping that enough people listen to them so they can keep printing even more money, but we know how all that ends as there are countless examples of this through history and it is never pretty.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Wind_FURY on January 13, 2022, 06:47:49 AM
We can't blame the president on that. He cannot tell his people to "Buy USD or Bitcoin, you are safe there." That's like admitting to be a traitor of your own country. He still need to save what is left even if the value of it is depreciating. Being patriotic first before looking for an alternative.
Bitcoin as a reserve, yes that will help but he need to find a way to solve the issue in front of him first before jumping to another. I don't know the deep issue about their financial system but is it because there is no usage of their own currency (people saving too much money) or is it just because of the high interest rates that caused the inflation?
When inflation is hitting every sector of the economy there is only one explanation for this, and that is that the government in turn is printing too much money.

Now if the governments cared as much as they say about their citizens they should encourage people to find ways to defend themselves from the mistakes they made, but we know they are never going to do that, so instead they do the opposite hoping that enough people listen to them so they can keep printing even more money, but we know how all that ends as there are countless examples of this through history and it is never pretty.


Hahaha. If the government truly cared, there would be no Cypherpunk movement that started to build technologies to protect our freedom, and our privacy. No Cypherpunk movement = no Satoshi = no Bitcoin. The government created their own demons.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: wxa7115 on January 19, 2022, 04:44:26 PM
We can't blame the president on that. He cannot tell his people to "Buy USD or Bitcoin, you are safe there." That's like admitting to be a traitor of your own country. He still need to save what is left even if the value of it is depreciating. Being patriotic first before looking for an alternative.
Bitcoin as a reserve, yes that will help but he need to find a way to solve the issue in front of him first before jumping to another. I don't know the deep issue about their financial system but is it because there is no usage of their own currency (people saving too much money) or is it just because of the high interest rates that caused the inflation?
When inflation is hitting every sector of the economy there is only one explanation for this, and that is that the government in turn is printing too much money.

Now if the governments cared as much as they say about their citizens they should encourage people to find ways to defend themselves from the mistakes they made, but we know they are never going to do that, so instead they do the opposite hoping that enough people listen to them so they can keep printing even more money, but we know how all that ends as there are countless examples of this through history and it is never pretty.


Hahaha. If the government truly cared, there would be no Cypherpunk movement that started to build technologies to protect our freedom, and our privacy. No Cypherpunk movement = no Satoshi = no Bitcoin. The government created their own demons.
And I agree, if governments and central banks especially stood true to what they represent and protected their citizens then many people would never see the need for something like bitcoin, but when the US can print money at such a massive scale and other countries do the same thing then people begin to look for alternatives.

And without a doubt bitcoin is the best alternative that people have, after all even if gold is a good store of value this does not mean that this will hold true forever, and this is demonstrated by gold being one of the worst investments during the last decade, while a few hundred dollars 10 years ago could have made you a millionaire today if you invested in bitcoin.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: jaberwock on January 19, 2022, 07:16:17 PM
Who should be blamed for “that”, President Erdogan? You want everyone to hold the Turkish Lira, while your cabal inflate and deflate the currency according to your “mood”.

Bitcoin is the back up/fall back that we need.
Definitely we must need some hedge funds which can be clearly bitcoin as of now.
Government are always going for printing money continuously to bail out themselves against bad economy.

I'm expecting some African country to be setting up example on how to make use of bitcoin against high inflation problems. Not sure about any specific country but it would be possible in a corrupted government and by a community people who support saving wealth in bitcoin rather than holding their local fiats.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: South Park on January 20, 2022, 09:06:56 PM
Quote

President Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday that Turks should keep all their savings in lira and that recent exchange rate volatility was largely under control after the lira weakened sharply in the last two months.

"I want all my citizens to keep their savings in our own money, to run all their business with our own money, and I recommend this," Erdogan said in a speech in Istanbul.

"Let's not forget this: as long as we don't take our own money as a benchmark, we are doomed to sink. The Turkish Lira, our money, that is what we will go forward with. Not with this foreign currency, that foreign currency."

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/erdogan-calls-turks-keep-all-savings-lira-2021-12-31/


Who should be blamed for “that”, President Erdogan? You want everyone to hold the Turkish Lira, while your cabal inflate and deflate the currency according to your “mood”.

Bitcoin is the back up/fall back that we need.
I suppose those that are too dumb to see what is happening will follow that advice, however there are limits to what governments can get away with, the problem with fiat currencies is that each time a government comes with the idea they believe they have mastered the art of printing money infinitely, and while this may seem true for a time eventually the consequences of their actions, that even a kid could understand, will begin to take place, and that is when they begin to point fingers and blame anyone they can when the whole problem was caused by the governments themselves.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Ozero on January 22, 2022, 07:56:31 AM
As Turkish president, Erdogan should urge the country's citizens to use their national currency, the lira, more. This is his duty and the lira will indeed be strengthened in this way. But citizens must also consider their own interests. If the government is not running the country efficiently and the lira is subject to high inflation, it is of course better to seek a safe haven for your cryptocurrency savings. People should not pay for the mistakes of their leaders.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Wind_FURY on January 22, 2022, 10:45:30 AM
As Turkish president, Erdogan should urge the country's citizens to use their national currency, the lira, more. This is his duty and the lira will indeed be strengthened in this way. But citizens must also consider their own interests. If the government is not running the country efficiently and the lira is subject to high inflation, it is of course better to seek a safe haven for your cryptocurrency savings. People should not pay for the mistakes of their leaders.


The citizens of Turkey don’t have a choice. They SHOULD use their currency to buy something, because inflation in Turkey will cause the prices of commodities, and services to surge. But never save their money in Lira. Erdogan is scamming his own people.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Fortify on January 22, 2022, 10:55:38 AM
Quote

President Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday that Turks should keep all their savings in lira and that recent exchange rate volatility was largely under control after the lira weakened sharply in the last two months.

"I want all my citizens to keep their savings in our own money, to run all their business with our own money, and I recommend this," Erdogan said in a speech in Istanbul.

"Let's not forget this: as long as we don't take our own money as a benchmark, we are doomed to sink. The Turkish Lira, our money, that is what we will go forward with. Not with this foreign currency, that foreign currency."

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/erdogan-calls-turks-keep-all-savings-lira-2021-12-31/


Who should be blamed for “that”, President Erdogan? You want everyone to hold the Turkish Lira, while your cabal inflate and deflate the currency according to your “mood”.

Bitcoin is the back up/fall back that we need.

Turkey has a rather unique situation, where the President is going against all the best economic advise being given to him and has replaced numerous (supposedly independent) central bank managers. It's seemingly unfathomable that a leader would so badly undermine their own country in some shallow belief that they can demand that inflation falls, he simply does not accept the painful steps that are required because voters are gradually turning against him. You have much bigger problems than which currency you use if you live in a country like this - short term you'd have been much safer if you had converted your money into US dollars considering the recent fall in the price of Bitcoin.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: savetheFORUM on January 24, 2022, 07:23:19 PM
As Turkish president, Erdogan should urge the country's citizens to use their national currency, the lira, more. This is his duty and the lira will indeed be strengthened in this way. But citizens must also consider their own interests. If the government is not running the country efficiently and the lira is subject to high inflation, it is of course better to seek a safe haven for your cryptocurrency savings. People should not pay for the mistakes of their leaders.
All his speech for me is not real because he care about the affairs of the people or that of the country, all this because they are afraid that people can have access to what they will not have control over and this what a lot of countries have gone ahead to make crypto illegal. The idea behind it is simple 'control the money and you will control their minds'. I wish people will wake up from their slumber and get this right before it is too late. One thing that should be clear is that crypto  has come to stay and nothing can be done about it.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: wxa7115 on January 25, 2022, 05:10:17 PM
As Turkish president, Erdogan should urge the country's citizens to use their national currency, the lira, more. This is his duty and the lira will indeed be strengthened in this way. But citizens must also consider their own interests. If the government is not running the country efficiently and the lira is subject to high inflation, it is of course better to seek a safe haven for your cryptocurrency savings. People should not pay for the mistakes of their leaders.


The citizens of Turkey don’t have a choice. They SHOULD use their currency to buy something, because inflation in Turkey will cause the prices of commodities, and services to surge. But never save their money in Lira. Erdogan is scamming his own people.
Agreed, maintaining any kind of savings in fiat has always been a bad idea but when the fiat printed by the government in which you reside is going out of control then it makes even less sense to keep any fiat around.

They must use it as soon as they get it so they are not punished by the rampant inflation going around the country, obviously the Government of Turkey then will complain about it but if the government cannot keep their side of the deal, which is to keep their currency stable, then people should not feel obligated to do the same and use whatever they need in order to improve their lives.


Title: Re: If the government loses control of the financial system, we have a fall back
Post by: Wind_FURY on February 03, 2022, 11:21:36 AM
If your statistics chief tells you that inflation is going extremely high at 36%, what should a calm, level-headed head of state do? Push it back to 0% by firing your statistics chief.

https://cdn.imgchest.com/files/pyvdceexdyk.jpeg

Turkish Bitcoiners are hedged. 8)